Phala Phala Saga | Ramaphosa seeks review of Section 89 report

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[00:00:00]Let's take this further then with Ulrich Roux from Ulrich Roux and Associates.

[00:00:04]Ulrich, so here we are, the president has officially started the process then to take that independent panel report on review. What are his prospects for success from your reading?

[00:00:15]Hi, good afternoon Tim Modise. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:18]Well, we expected this to happen and it and it has now occurred. The president has filed a review application of the findings of the Section 89 independent panel's report, which found as you you correctly pointed out that there are questions for him to answer to in a in a prima facie case of wrongdoing on his behalf pertaining to the whole Phala Phala saga. Um, in my view, I do not think that there is merit in his application and that he will be successful, but I do think that it is a strategic application that he has filed in order to possibly set up an urgent application which he will launch, which prevents the National Assembly from voting on his or proceeding with his impeachment proceedings.

[00:01:07]Um, and I think we must just make it clear for for your viewers again that you know, there's the Constitutional Court ruling that was handed down earlier this month was only pertaining to the constitutionality of the National Assembly voting on on whether to proceed with the impeachment process of the president or not. So, so the Constitutional Court found that it was not constitutional, that they are not allowed to vote, and that the Section 89 independent panel's report must be implemented.

[00:01:41]So, so accordingly the impeachment process must unfold and the president must be given an opportunity to state why he should not be impeached.

[00:01:50]So, these are totally separate proceedings. The president is now saying that the report is flawed, and that it is um unlawful, and that it must be set aside. Um and he has said that he he trusts that the National Assembly will not proceed with the impeachment proceedings. Um and should they do so, he will have no choice but to launch an urgent application. Do you foresee that uh happening in the near future?

[00:02:17]>> He does say, the president, as he did when he addressed the nation on the Phala Phala issue, and the ruling from the Constitutional Court, that he still believes that the panel's report basically relied on hearsay, that it had no solid evidence to make the findings that it made, especially pertaining to him possibly having violated his oath as the leader of the country. How how steep of a mountain, legally, would the president have to climb in order to prove that this committee would have A, misdirected itself in terms of the mandate, and that B, in doing that, it relied on hearsay?

[00:02:55]Well, he needs to prove that, obviously, in his application, and that is what he is attempting to do now. Um you know, the the the burden is quite high on him.

[00:03:04]The burden of proof, and he needs to show that that this independent panel completely overstepped its mandate. Um you know, it's it's a difficult position that the president finds himself in. Um you know, on the one end, one expects the president of of the country to take society and the South African public into his confidence, and and tell us why he's saying that he did nothing wrong.

[00:03:26]Um but but here he's trying to set aside the report instead of of doing that. So, you know, he's focusing on the technicalities of the report, and whether the the the the panel overstepped its um its boundaries or not. Um you know, in in my view, he should have taken society into his confidence, and showed to us and showed to to the country why he has not done anything wrong, but unfortunately, he's he's opted not to do so. So, do think in in this review application um you know, he he uh it is quite an uphill battle that he is faced with. And and once again, I think that he has only filed this review application in order to to set up a possible urgent interdict which interdicts the the implementation of the impeach impeachment proceedings by nation the National Assembly. On the issue of the interdict, lastly, Alister, how significant might that be when you consider that the president is not at the stage applying for an interdict to stop Parliament from continuing with the process that we've seen so far in the establishment of an impeachment committee which will now begin its work then in the considerations that it has to make before he may ultimately have to sit there and state his case before MPs.

[00:04:39]Has he left the parliamentary process, put it in limbo, basically?

[00:04:45]Yes, one can only um you know, expect and speculate that he's done it strategically. You know, he's he's thrown the ball back into the court of the National Assembly, and I'm sure that there will be legal correspondence that flows from this where they will be seeking an undertaking that they will not proceed with the impeachment proceedings um pending the the the review application of this Section 89 report. Um you know, that that is his strategy, clearly, and if he doesn't receive that undertaking, then he he is uh within his right to launch that urgent application. I think if he launched the urgent interdict without having launched this review application, then uh that interdict application would have uh not been successful. So, he's strategically done this. There's no doubt. Um and and you know, he's he's saying to the court, "Well, um I am I am disputing the validity of this Section 89 report. I'm saying that it was um uh not done so legally, and and the report was not drawn up in a lawful manner. and accordingly the the National Assembly cannot do anything pending a court's finalization of whether the Section 89 report is lawful or not. Um, so so you know, it's it's it's a it's a sound legal strategy on behalf of the president. Um, but but once again, you know, it it is a an unfortunate situation that the president finds himself in, and that the South African society finds ourselves in. You know, we've we've all heard the term the Stalingrad approach being thrown around uh pertaining to our our former president. And and unfortunately, it seems as if this is now a continuation of that. Um, this is obviously going to delay uh an impeachment process. It's obviously going to delay our president taking uh the South African public into his confidence and telling us why he's done nothing wrong.

[00:06:36]So um one needs to see how this unfolds now.

[00:06:41]Ulrich, thank you very much for talking to us. Legal analyst Ulrich Roux, thank you always for being generous with your time speaking to the latest developments around the Phala Phala farm farm burglary and the legal battle there.