Dave Jacquemain: I am Twitch | ep. 86

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]There's a lot of change that can be made in the mental health side of things.

[00:00:02]Totally. I can only speak when it comes to the law enforcement. Imagine you had this itch on your shoulder >> [music] >> and you just let it linger.

[00:00:11]You don't scratch it. You just leave it.

[00:00:14]And the longer and longer you leave it, the more irritating it gets.

[00:00:26]All right, guys. Welcome back to the studio. Today we have Dave Jackman, also known as Twitch. Welcome to the studio, Dave.

[00:00:31]>> Thanks, Mike. I'm excited to be here, finally, man. Yeah, good to chat with you. All right. All right, walk me through Twitch. How did [clears throat] you get the name?

[00:00:39]>> [laughter] >> It's It's uh pretty funny, actually. Uh so, when I was I think 12, uh 10 or 12, right in that age range.

[00:00:48]Um I was diagnosed with Tourette's.

[00:00:51]Um and when I got to my senior year of high school, um I wanted to join the Marine Corps.

[00:00:59]So, family history of Marines, all that, right? Talked to a recruiter.

[00:01:03]They said, "No, you can't come in with Tourette's."

[00:01:06]I never did any like official paperwork or anything, so I'll get myself in trouble, but I went, "Okay." So, then I went and I talked to the Air Force and I just didn't tell them. Yeah. [laughter] And so, I got in. I made it through boot camp. It was actually Air National Guard, right? So, so like on the reserve side of things.

[00:01:23]Um forced my way through boot camp, you know, did everything I could to not let it show, which was really, really difficult. Some funny stories we can go over with that in a little bit, but um and then when I finally got out and I got out uh assigned to my unit and we were working shift on in the unit uh one day and my partner saw me doing some of my facial tics and [clears throat] um her name was Kim.

[00:01:46]Um and and she looked at me, she's like, "Hey, man, you all right?"

[00:01:50]I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I I haven't really told anybody this, but I have like a mild form of Tourette's syndrome." She's like, "All right, I like that. You're You're going to be Twitch now." And >> [snorts] >> I mean, that the whole unit, everybody.

[00:02:03]And then you get into the law enforcement world, you know, anytime you go in any kind of undercover unit, uh you usually get, you know, your your call signs, your nicknames, whatever you want to call them that you use on the radio and >> Right.

[00:02:14]just Twitch stuck there.

[00:02:16]>> Twitch. I like that and I love that story. And uh so, Kim fully embraced it and then like the rest of your squad just kind of openly embraced you with it.

[00:02:24]I think that's awesome.

[00:02:25]>> It was the really the first time >> [clears throat] >> I don't want to say the very first time I felt accepted by just that core group of people, but um you know, when you're going through middle school and high school and you're doing, you know, I I mean, it's weird things, right? Like when I first got it, I was smacking myself in the face. I was, you know, flipping off my my books at my desk. I was standing up and sitting down. I was grunting and doing all kinds of things. It was much more active now than it is or then than it was now or is now.

[00:02:55]Um so, you know, people are always kind of like weary of what's what's up, but I'll tell you, man, joining that unit was really >> Now, you were how old when you joined the unit? Uh 20. And then how old were you when you got the diagnosis?

[00:03:09]>> I think it was 12 officially, cuz you have to be the roughest age to be, right? And you have to have like um consistent tics for a year and you have to be a certain age, which I think is 10, but don't quote me on that. Um for them to actually diagnose you with with Tourette's syndrome instead of just tic disorder. There's like a couple different stipulations you have to have, so but I started right around 10 10 years old is when my symptoms started showing. Um and they're pretty tough for a minute. I mean, made a lot of Like I said, I would smack myself in the face.

[00:03:41]>> Now, how did you kind of with your folks, how did you determine like something was up? How did Did they pick up on it? Did you have to like approach them or were they observant?

[00:03:52]>> So, it was really all my mom. Um you know, my dad My parents are divorced. My dad at the time was um in the Marine Corps.

[00:04:01]Uh he was stationed North Carolina.

[00:04:03]Um my stepdad and my mom is who I lived with full-time and then I go see my dad in the summers and and you know, winter breaks and things like that. Um But it When you dial it down, it was really my mom.

[00:04:14]Um my mom has been man, my fiercest [snorts] warrior when it comes to all this stuff. I mean, shoo. Yeah, I I couldn't ask for like almost to a fault sometimes where she is mama bear, right? Like somebody's messing with me and she is on them. And I mean, that comes from a lot.

[00:04:33]She was a police officer for 29 years.

[00:04:35]>> Oh, wow. Um That's awesome.

[00:04:36]>> and then my stepdad uh was a was a fireman. He was a retired fireman and he's very strong personality and he jumped right in there as well and um both of them, I mean, really fought hard for me going through school to get whatever I needed.

[00:04:52]Um you know, my dad supported as much as he could from where he was until he got out and then he was a good supporting role in that, so um I I was just a product of fortunately, you know, a lot of people their parents get divorced and and it's it's a really harsh situation.

[00:05:10]>> Yeah. I ended up having two sets of parents that loved me to death and would go to the ends of the earth for me, so when it came to the Tourette's stuff, man, nobody messed with me. They were on it.

[00:05:20]>> I love the family history, too. Service Oh, man. Cuz well, to give the audience a little context, we've known each other for a few years. We've actually been talking about doing this podcast for a few years. We've just not been able to nail down the time to do it. And so, I love your story and I really want to share it with the audience. You know, as you know, um I've worked in the mental health field for 30 years, but I started working with families when I started my own nonprofit um in 2016 and I began working with folks with Tourette's syndrome, families, um young men that were living at home with their folks. You know, you know my story. Back in the day when I first started out in the mental health field, I was working with people that came out of institutions. Um that was 1996, 1997, 1998 and then all throughout my career up to 2016, then my um trajectory shifted and I started working with families and young folks. And you speaking of your age, your diagnosis of 12, we come from around the same era and so, things were much different back in then than they are now. Things are a little more accepting, I think, maybe on the playing field in schools because there's more education surrounding it, Right. but I don't think people are any less cruel as far as bullying may go.

[00:06:39]And so, I like the idea of sharing your story with people that might not understand Tourette's syndrome. Yeah, I I love that, man. I really appreciate you having me on here cuz I, you know, it's my whole life has been it's just kind of me, right? Like I never really thought of anything being really extraordinary about what I've done. I mean, I was proud of everything I did, right? Um But But yeah, I mean, >> [clears throat] >> I think the biggest change now from then um really has to do with exposure, right? With And that's true for a lot of areas now. I mean, for better or for worse, social media's here. Yeah. And you can scroll through I mean, if you go on Instagram and just type in the search bar Tourette's syndrome, you're going to find reel after reel after reel. And some are going to be, you know, poking at it and but some are going to be real-life examples of you know, success stories and struggles and things like that and and I I kind of wish, well, I don't know if I wish I had that back when I was younger cuz I I think everything that I went through um to get to where I am today really built my character. So, I I don't regret at all my story, um but I do think it's a good thing now that kids who are going through this um from the age that I was have the ability to look and see, look, there are a lot of people out there just like you. It This doesn't have to hold you back.

[00:08:04]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:05]>> you're going to do. Live your life.

[00:08:06]>> And you're wired for that. So, like I don't think Like I like your perspective on looking back. I don't look back and regret any of the experiences that I had the way I had in comparison to the way times are now, either. Um cuz I was wired to carry myself up to the point that I'm at now with my, you know, own story and and path, also. So, I think that's part of the inspiration that you can provide to other people, too.

[00:08:34]Nothing has to hold you back, right? I mean, look at all the accomplishments that you've made. I mean, without any of your diversities holding you back. Like they're bonus, right? I mean, like look at your squad welcoming you in. You know what I mean like that. Like I'm sure that you've got lifelong friendships and relationships that came from that and that led you to your career path down the road of service. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I >> [clears throat] >> You know, I I could name probably name after name for you of people that I am still in contact with from the military. I mean, we're talking I joined back in 2003. Mhm. Right? Um and these are still guys that you keep in contact with, right? And And like I said, that that crew was really up until that point, even though I tried to I don't know, present this this uh image of myself that was confident and and, you know, in charge of what I was doing. Um inside, I mean, you know, you're walking down the street and you tic and somebody looks at you like and and you know, it it would always like man, that sucked. That was embarrassing, you know.

[00:09:44]Or you're talking to somebody and they they you know, and and they're they're being perfectly polite. They you know, they're being a kind person. They say, "Hey, are you okay?"

[00:09:52]And then that leads into that uncomfortable conversation. "Oh, yeah, you know, I I have a mild form of Tourette's syndrome, but but thanks, you know. And back then, that was all still very embarrassing to me, but once I got with that unit, um as security forces unit with the the Air National Guard that I was in, um those guys took to me, and once I got in that undercover unit, those guys took to me, and and you know, every experience along the way has lead me to now I actually look forward to having those conversations. Um >> [clears throat] >> Funny thing, at one point in time, not too long into my career, um as a police officer, um I was actually booking a lady. We had arrested her, and I don't even remember what for.

[00:10:35]Um but I was fingerprinting her, and she she goes, "Can I Can I ask you a question? I don't mean to be offensive."

[00:10:39]I'm like, "Sure." She goes, "Do you have Tourette's?" I'm like, "Yeah."

[00:10:44]And she started talking to me. I mean, not picture this, right? I I've just arrested you.

[00:10:49]>> Right.

[00:10:49]>> You're probably not very happy with me.

[00:10:51]>> Right.

[00:10:52]I'm fingerprinting you, and you start telling me about how your son was just diagnosed with Tourette's.

[00:10:57]And now we're in this conversation in the booking room about all the things that I was able to accomplish and the things that I've done and persevered through it.

[00:11:06]And she's thanking me and and saying that she thinks, even though this is a weird way of God doing it, that she brought us together to give her more comfort. Right.

[00:11:13]>> and that's something that sticks with me. Yeah. You know, um so now any opportunity that I have, if I see somebody that struggles with it, I at least try to reach out. I at least try to you know, I I I I work I'm signed as a school resource officer right now, and um I've noticed a couple of kids that I think probably are, and and you know, I don't ask, but I do my best to try to make sure that I have exposure to them at some point.

[00:11:37]Cuz any bit of help that I can give to pull somebody out of what I went through quicker, I'm all for. Yeah.

[00:11:44]>> You know. Well, I'm all about celebrating diversities, as you know.

[00:11:47]So, like I always work with some of the [clears throat] most um well, considered the most challenging folks in the county, like throughout my career. And you know, when I got to start working with families out in the community, it was like such a pleasure for me because I'm always like I um I connect with the folks that to others present the most challenging, cuz they don't to me, cuz I just meet people where they're at. We just go from there, and I'm really great at relationship building, I feel like. And so, one of the guys that I was working with had It wasn't such a mild form. It was more aggressive, and so, um he had a hard time making a social group, right? And so, that was my gig was trying to help him help himself make friends in a social setting, right? And so, um I I love that experience, and I love that guy, but he was definitely um one of the guys that was um challenged the most by other parents, I would say, too. Like that don't [clears throat] understand in the community what that looks like and what his struggles are and and why, because people think you're making it up, that you know, they think he's playing on it, they think that it's not uh it's not 100% like the real deal. You know, there's a lot of a lot of different things that come up with folks that experience diversities like that. And that's that's pretty challenging, and that's where the um you know, it's up to the community to educate people more on like what that looks like and and and why, you know.

[00:13:28]Yeah, I I think [clears throat] one of the big things that I mean, at least what I'm what I hear you saying, and one of the big things I think that gets really challenging for people to understand Tourette's and and and what it is and how it presents is you can see [snorts] a guy like me who can sit here with you for however long we sit here, and I'll have some facial tics, and I might clear my throat a little more often, or I might blink a little more.

[00:13:53]Um but then you [clears throat] also have people who can't sit in a movie theater without screaming an obscenity, Mhm.

[00:13:59]>> [clears throat] >> or you know, have to throw their hands in the air, or whatever, you know, whatever those more major, more presentable presentable physical tics are.

[00:14:07]Um and I've and I've heard people say before, "Well, you don't have like the normal kind of Tourette's." And I'm like, "Why?

[00:14:13]>> [laughter] >> What's the normal kind of Tourette's, my man?" Like, you know what I'm saying?

[00:14:17]So, I mean, there are people out there that um Everything's a spectrum, though. You know what I mean? Like everything in life.

[00:14:25]>> I still consider myself at the lower end of the spectrum.

[00:14:28]I mean, I have my bad days, um but I I'm thankful that I don't have to deal with the complications of somebody who does have that verbal portion, where you know, um they're they're they're ticking by yelling obscenities during cuz if I had that one, I may maybe it would have changed some of the opportunities that I had, right? But >> Yeah. um But I still connect with them because I understand like how hard it is to try not to. Well, you said it, right when we got rolling in the episode here, right? As we started recording, you had said you you you tried to force it down, right? Instead [snorts] of like letting the thing happen, and sometimes that can you know, exaggerate things. It's like trying to fight laughter when you're in trouble, right? Like when you're sitting in the principal's office, and like you're not supposed to be you know, you're getting reprimanded for something, and you I used to bust out laughing every [laughter] time. And the harder I tried to like not laugh, and or like when we were getting disciplined by our dad, cuz me and my me and my brothers were just hell on wheels. We weren't raised We were raised by amazing parents. Like our parents [laughter] were like, I don't know how they got three of us, but like we just came out swearing, smoking, and drinking. And like, [laughter] you know, we were always in trouble for something, and um we got disciplined. Like our dad disciplined us, and I mean like the belt. And so, like when it was time, we laughed when the other one was getting their disciplinary action. I mean, like [laughter] we couldn't hold it back. And then that only made it worse for us when it was our turn, you know what I mean?

[00:16:01]And it was like you're trying to suppress suppress suppress, and then it was just like we'd just bust out.

[00:16:05]>> Yes. So, I mean, I can appreciate where you're coming from with, you know, trying to you're trying to keep it in.

[00:16:09]You're I know I know what you mean. I know that feeling inside, and it's just like uh but Yeah, I I don't remember what show it was, but I you know, [clears throat] I I told you my mom um everything that she put into trying to help me, >> Yeah. um at one point, when I was much younger, I think it was right when I was starting to deal with it, um I don't remember what talk show it was or anything like that, but she had recorded this, cuz she saw it. I don't know how she came across it. Um and it was essentially a teenager talking to this talk show host about what tics felt like with Tourette's.

[00:16:43]And um and this still sticks in my mind, because I have never found a better way to describe it. Um that person said, "Imagine you had this itch on your shoulder, and you just let it linger.

[00:16:59]You don't scratch it. You just leave it.

[00:17:01]And the longer and longer you leave it, the more irritated it gets. Or like for me or for anybody that comes from a military setting, right? You're standing at attention, and now you get this itch on your ear, you get this itch on your nose. And by the time whoever you're standing at attention for is done talking or done addressing or what It It It's so crazy, because the first thing you want to do is just God, just you know, it's exactly what it's like. It's just cuz consistent build up >> Yeah. until you finally let it go. And then it's just >> Release.

[00:17:28]>> momentary release.

[00:17:29]>> Yeah. And then you probably have to deal with that again in another 30 seconds, right? But >> Right. um that's what it feels like, and I've never I've never been able to describe it better than that. And And those were the things like those are the things that my mom would do for me to try to make me understand what it was going through, cuz I I didn't get it. Right.

[00:17:45]>> You know, I I didn't And she knew you needed to release. Yeah. And then you understood you needed to release.

[00:17:50][snorts] So, the harder you try to [clears throat] fight it back. But I mean, like that's just the whole going through the that whole age spectrum of like 12 all the way up through high school. It's like, yeah, God, those are the roughest times. I used to want to be a middle school counselor, like cuz that's such a rough time for everyone, guy, girl, no matter what. It's just like that age, oh my God.

[00:18:11]>> Middle school. You know, everyone just goes through it. It doesn't matter how cool you are or whatever's going on.

[00:18:16]It's like you're either going through it at home, you're going through it at school, you're going through it somewhere, right? And so, and and you're going through something. Doesn't matter.

[00:18:24]It's like no one can escape that, but um so yeah, that journey, I mean, that's definitely you were definitely built to carry through, and like I think that's awesome. I mean, that really obviously [clears throat] shaped you going into the military, and then, you know, the police, and um and your career in service. And now you're in the schools, so that's great for the students, you know, you're you're um you know the deal. Like first responder, look up, look down, look all around. You're you're self you're aware of what's going on, and that's great, you know, for the students. You know, you're you're for at least 8 hours a day, you're always turned on. You know, your switch is on, and it's on high.

[00:19:04]Um There are times where it it's funny cuz I had to research this myself, cuz I never quite understood why um when something happened, when a critical incident was going on, something, you know, high speed, dialed in, has to handle now, you know, high risk kind of thing, >> [snorts] >> um my tics shut off. They just they power down.

[00:19:31]And I never quite understood it, um cuz it could be 10, 15 minutes you're, you know, you're doing something where you very much need to be focused in, cuz if you're not, other people can get hurt, right?

[00:19:41]Um and then once that situation is handled, once the incident's over, once things are calming down, now these tics, you know, knowing myself as well as I do now, I know like to my partner, "Hey, I got to have a seat in the car for a minute." For sure. Yeah, that makes perfect sense because everything you were so dialed in and focused that nothing was >> [clears throat] >> that nothing was coming to the surface.

[00:20:09]Right.

[00:20:10]>> So, now it's going to make up for that after you're like Yeah, [snorts] and it's it's dopamine, right? That's one of the biggest uh contributing factors of of the tics with Tourette's is dopamine, so >> [sighs] >> I did a little research myself and it you know, I'm not a scientist or doctor, but it talks more about when you're in your hyper-focused like that, your frontal lobe is taking over.

[00:20:29]>> Yeah. And it's it's making your dopamine more regulated, more filtered, right?

[00:20:35]And then when that's done and your frontal lobe is no longer the dominating factor, now that dopamine is just flooding. And that's those are your, you know, your drops, your dips.

[00:20:46]Yeah, so I noticed this about you.

[00:20:49]Um you were here a few weeks back filming in the studio some promotional stuff for the company that you're associated with and um you're on like you're great on camera and you were pretty focused in on the project that you were doing. You weren't just having an organic conversation where you can just relax and you know, be yourself and let loose. Um you're you were dialed in and I noticed like when you're dialed in like you don't twitch as much. You don't twitch I don't remember you twitching at all during that process and then we talked off camera about that and you said that you did get into a little bit of acting like throughout your high school years. So, that like do you think that helped train your mind a little bit into focusing? I I think so, right? So, yeah, it's something that people are often surprised about because when you know, when you look at me and what I do now, you would never think like >> I would have never thought that. So, and I've known you for a few years. So, when you told me I was like, "Really? I didn't know." So >> So, all through high school actually I think it started in middle school.

[00:21:51]I was in choir and then uh and then I got into high school and I got into my you know, my my junior senior year and I was in the select ensemble and the show choir.

[00:22:00]Um I was the lead in my senior year high school musical. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum, I was suitless, right? Um some some great times. Um and then I tried out for uh this group called the Young Americans out of California. Um you know, for one reason or another at that point I think just because of the background I came from. I mean all the I mean I my mom, my dad >> Service is in your blood. grandparents, uncles and we're talking, you know, law enforcement, fire, military.

[00:22:32]Um I just decided that was the route I was going to go. But I could have gone out to California and done this whole, you know, You have something there cuz when I was watching on camera like you have such great presence. Like when you were doing the promotional, I was like, "Damn, he's really good on camera. Like I can learn from this guy. Like he's good."

[00:22:50]>> [laughter] >> But it's that helped tremendously cuz it it puts you in front of people. Yeah.

[00:22:55]When you're in front of a crowd of people and it's just you in a solo, it's just you and those people, you know what I mean? So, um and that helps. So, that experience um in the arts helps with law enforcement, it helps with logic, it helps with I mean I I can strike up a conversation with people on the phone talking to a to a potential new client with Logic Health and just talk and we can just I can get to know this person. Just like you and I sitting here.

[00:23:23]I just get to know this person.

[00:23:24]>> Well, from when we first met, we met [clears throat] over the phone, not in person and so that that professional relationship built into a friendship, but it was like every time we spoke on the phone led into a podcast cuz we had similar interests.

[00:23:38]You know, my grandfather was [clears throat] a Detroit police officer.

[00:23:42]I started training jujitsu. You train jujitsu. You have a beautiful wife, a daughter and a and a young son. Your boy is so young, but you got him involved in martial arts training at a very young age which I think is amazing cuz I believe everybody should play jujitsu.

[00:23:59]>> [laughter] >> Everybody should play around with some jujitsu in their life. I mean whether you take it seriously or or you or you want to go, you know, to a the next level with it. I think that self-defense and building confidence and just learning the principles of jujitsu which means gentle art.

[00:24:18]You know, we were talking off camera and we've had many conversations over the years about um the of about experiencing the benefits of jujitsu and martial arts just from a learning perspective, just from the ground up.

[00:24:31]Um I think it's great that you have your boy involved in it and can you talk a little bit about what that what jujitsu gave to you as far as Yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:42]So, so I should tell you full disclosure, it's been about a year since we've done anything with that.

[00:24:47]But the intention is to get back into >> Of course. Well, it never ends. So, once you're in, you're never getting out.

[00:24:54]Right. So Um yeah, so >> [sighs] >> I think it really started initially with me just wanting my son to have that confidence in himself. Um have that grounding.

[00:25:14]Um and it you know, to be honest, it's really it's really important for me for my son to know how to protect himself and protect other people.

[00:25:23]Um and I as I try to mentor even these young men in the schools and that, I always tell them the world is in desperate need of strong males.

[00:25:34]People who when they show up somewhere or when they're in a room, other people around them feel safe.

[00:25:39]>> Mhm. You know what [clears throat] I mean?

[00:25:40]>> Yeah. Um and if there's anything that I can give to my son, that is what I want to give him. Be somebody that makes other people feel safe, right? Doesn't matter what you do. You don't have to be a cop. You don't have to be in the military. You don't have I mean look at you. Anybody that knows anything about you and your background and the shape you keep yourself in and what how what you train, they're going to feel safe around you because if you guys are walking around in a bad area going from, you know, place to place at some point and somebody jumps out and tries to do something, Mike's going to be able to handle that guy.

[00:26:07]>> the tools and you don't have to be as big as you either to have those, right?

[00:26:11]As a matter of fact, sometimes in jujitsu this is a disadvantage.

[00:26:14]You're not if you're not as limber, if you're not as flexible, you're there are things that I can't get into that somebody like you very much can. So, um but it started so yeah, it started with him it's um and getting him into it's Tang Soo Do is what that what that um dojo trained. And then from there I thought it would be something cool for him and I to do together.

[00:26:36]>> Yeah.

[00:26:37]>> taking those classes.

[00:26:39]Um and then I just it piqued my interest and we had a a BJJ gym right around the corner from our house that I started to go to. I did that for a few months.

[00:26:50]Um you know, you and I talked before about this and and and I like I mentioned I heard when you you telling your story about your relationship with jujitsu when you were talking to Mike Kim on on that podcast.

[00:26:59]Um I was kind of in the same situation.

[00:27:03]Those guys at that gym, the the higher belts and the owner, amazing amazing guys.

[00:27:09]And would allow you the opportunity when you're rolling with them to they present something to you as a lower belt and hope that you were going to catch it.

[00:27:18]And if you didn't, then they'd wrap you up and they'd say, "Hey, I had this for you, but you didn't catch it."

[00:27:22]>> So, you're learning, right?

[00:27:23]Um but it was very much a competition gym. So, the younger guys, the lower belts, they had things to prove and and I listen, I respect that wholeheartedly.

[00:27:34]I was there for mental strength.

[00:27:37]>> Yeah. I was there for a physical release and I was there to provide myself more tools on my on my in my war chest to be able to be effective in my police job.

[00:27:49]Um because we can never have enough tools when we're doing that, right?

[00:27:52]>> Never, exactly. So, there was a guy named Dave Frederick who was and is still a good friend of mine.

[00:27:59]Uh who was a student, but also an instructor at my son's dojo and you know, where we were doing the Tang Soo Do and we got to talking about jujitsu and and he basically just started showing up an hour before class for my son and just rolling with me, doing things with me, teaching things that were applicable to my job.

[00:28:19]Um and I did that with him I think for about a year.

[00:28:24]And then my wife got into it. She was doing it and my son started doing that side of things and then they started doing classes every Saturday morning and my brother got so at one point it was me and my wife and my son and my brother all there with a couple other people with him and doing the jujitsu thing and and and I loved it. Um And then you know, schedules get in the way and you know, Life happens, man. And you've said that you know, it's been about a year since you tapped back in, but I don't think it ever leaves you and like what I was learning on the mats, I learned that just cuz I'm not on the mat practicing the physicalities of it didn't mean it wasn't with me mentally. So, same for you I think cuz you're you implemented those tools into your chest like you said, it's your tool belt. I can use those in meetings all day like the tools and the practices that I learned from that cuz like you, I wasn't in it for the competition. I scoped out three schools and um >> [snorts] >> I'm at that point, well, let's see. I started back in 2020 during COVID and what brought me there was it was mental health cuz I was like past a 10. I was at a 12 and I knew it and I didn't know how to figure that out. And so, I wasn't a fighter growing up in [clears throat] school. My brothers were. They beat up everybody in town and anybody that messed with me. So, I didn't need to have that. So, I had them they were 5 years older than me, both of them and they were only 10 months apart in age, so it was just like I don't I don't really need all that.

[00:29:50]>> Right. So [laughter] like So I go take care of that. So uh but I mean like later in life, I mean they obviously I fought with them, wrestled, and did all the things that brothers do.

[00:30:03]But like they were the next level of fighters in town. So it was it was not like that for me. I was a little more dialed back and reserved as far as that stuff goes. But like learning getting to that point later on in life as a business owner during um you know, the 2020 the whole 2020 fiasco and beyond. Um it's a whole it was a whole game changer in life. It just everything changed. All the rules changed, right? And so as a business owner um I had women working in my office and employees were coming in with payroll issues and be treating the ladies disrespectfully that worked in my office. I was like, "No no no." And I didn't really know how to fight on a defense from a defense standpoint, right? Only with my brothers and it was like to the death. And so like so to speak. And so um that's when I started according the schools and I was like, "All right. I you know, now at this point I'm in my 40s and um I don't heal like I used to.

[00:31:05]So I didn't want to get into ultimate street fighting. I wanted to learn the principles from the ground up." And finally by the third school that I checked out, that was where I landed and it was just that.

[00:31:16]So it was learning the principles from the ground up. It was combatives. I trained my ass off. I wasn't training to compete. I connected with all the instructors, became friends with them immediately, and and started building amazing relationships, and then bringing the instructors here to my um here to my space and training my employees in bystander intervention. Like anything I could think of. Women's empowerment.

[00:31:41]Like I was all about it. So anything that brought s- uh safety to me, I wanted to share with anybody else. So I was doing that and uh but the competitive standpoint like there's nothing wrong with anyone going to be competitive. It wasn't me though.

[00:31:56]So like I I was I was training three times a day. So um my instructor really could see I was putting in the work because I wasn't like great with the footwork and I wasn't picking up on things like I as fast as other people would. So I knew I know I'm self enough self-aware enough to know like if I'm not going to pick up on something quickly, I have to put more time and effort into it. So I was doing that by going to the morning class, training privately at noon, and then going to the evening class too cuz I needed that. So like they would have your card and my card was just filled up very quickly. And then like you graduate to the class like reflex and development, you know, you're >> [clears throat] >> you're you're moving on up and like my instructor would tell everybody >> [laughter] >> he would kind of brag about me. I'm like, "Don't do that cuz now you're putting a target on my back. I don't want to [ __ ] go to the classes no more because you know how people are."

[00:32:49]Cuz then they're going to want to like that's when you start getting hurt.

[00:32:52]>> The first time I got tapped, yeah, and this is I tell this to everybody because it is to me it's a fun The first time I got tapped, it was this teenage girl.

[00:33:03]And it was my turn to roll with her.

[00:33:04]>> Yeah, right.

[00:33:05]>> And she used my ghee to choke me out and I was done. It was in about 15 seconds.

[00:33:10]And I'm like, "Well, I'm humbled. We're good."

[00:33:12]>> Yeah, right. Exactly.

[00:33:13]>> And so cuz I wasn't training to compete.

[00:33:15]I was just I was getting really good though cuz I was training so much, but I needed I really attributed everything to the private classes. Yeah. Because it's one-on-one. I learn better that way. Too much distraction with other people and then you get I'm not taking anything away from [clears throat] the the experience at the school itself when you're training with other people.

[00:33:33]That's great, you know, like I don't want to deter anyone from that experience, but for me I learn best one-on-one and then paired with the integrated classes.

[00:33:42]>> Yeah. So um but doing that it was like he started calling me a machine and then other people uh want to meet the machine and I'm just like I'm not that good. Like I'm downplaying myself and he's building me up and I'm like So then I just stopped going to the classes because then it was time to test and I was like well, I I had to wait to do the test cuz I filled up the class the card so quickly. And so I was like, "Well, not then I just hired my trainers to come train me privately cuz then life gets in the way, right?"

[00:34:11]>> Mhm. So I had um finished up turned my garage into a gym. I got the mats and all the stuff and I got the um the grappling dummies and all this. And so I would just train myself, train by myself like um on some YouTube videos and things like that, but privately. So I had a a set schedule with my trainer would come and and I'd do it that way versus going to the school cuz then there was a piece where I was getting competitive within. I didn't like that side because I was taking it to another level and I had a lot going on. So like I was trying to manage mental health and some other things and I was like >> flip fast.

[00:34:49]>> It did. [laughter] And so I was like, "Oh, with great power comes great responsibility."

[00:34:54]>> Uh-huh. Cuz I had an incident with somebody around town and it was like I have a uh a house in the historic district and it was just like this nonsense back and forth with these folks who are just like ignorant about certain things. And so like I'm in a square-off with this person and I'm just like "Okay."

[00:35:13]>> [laughter] >> I had a moment where I was like I need to dial back on the jiu-jitsu cuz I was >> probably thinking to yourself I could beat your ass right now.

[00:35:19]>> Yeah, right. Exactly. And then I just had this like moment of clarity where I was like [snorts] I need to like [clears throat] take myself away from that environment and focus more back to the principles and my why versus like versus like I'm the machine.

[00:35:33]>> Yes, [laughter] exactly. Cuz And that was fun for a minute to have that like empowerment cuz I realized I had grown.

[00:35:39]But then I realized I grown more by recognizing that. You know what I mean?

[00:35:44]That I needed to dial back and and and I wasn't trained to be a black belt. I didn't care about the belt rank or any of the things. I just wanted to train to train. Cuz it was good for me mentally and it was good for me physically. It was it broke up the monotony of working out with weights and training like that.

[00:36:01]And so um and so that was really good for me and I understood how I need to train versus, you know, um versus getting caught up in the competitive end of it. You know, cuz for some people that's their bread and butter if you're going to open up a school. Cuz then I was doing that too. So I was like, "Oh no, I want to open up a school and I want to be partners with my instructor."

[00:36:22]And I was going to do all this. I was like, "You just settle down cuz I got all these other businesses, right? I do [laughter] that [ __ ] Like I take guitar lessons. I'm going to you know, [clears throat] do this or I started skydiving and now I want to fly the plane."

[00:36:35]>> [laughter] >> So it's just like cuz I'll do it too.

[00:36:38]And I don't want to take all that on. So like with jiu-jitsu, it's good just to provide yourself with empowerment right and tools. Yeah, so I think what you're talking about really is the difference between self-confidence and arrogance, right? Yeah. You have to know the difference.

[00:36:53]>> Right. It's it A man needs to be self-confident, but also humble. Yeah, agreed. And if you're not both of those things, then you're arrogant.

[00:37:03]And I like the story you shared too about the young lady that that humbled you on the mats because that's what I did also like about the school that I was training at is that it was integrated, right? So like your partner could be um a male or a female that day.

[00:37:17]And it was, you know, well, they have the kids classes, but I mean it's all ages. It's kind of like going to community college, I guess, or like something like along those lines where it's just a such a diverse group of folks, right? And you get to meet all these cool folks. And everyone had a different skill level where someone might walk in on the mats and you're not thinking one way or another about them until they humble the [ __ ] out of you on the mat. You're like, "Oh damn."

[00:37:39]>> [laughter] >> I'm extremely green, so that's pretty much every time for me. Right, right.

[00:37:43]But I mean, you know, the cool thing is after doing it for a little while, um there were a couple scenarios at work where I found myself automatically implementing some of it.

[00:37:54]Uh and it led to a much much quicker resolution as opposed to this physical struggle that goes on and on and on for minutes and you're both exhausted. And then there's that increased um uh increased chance of or probability of somebody getting hurt, you or the person, you know what I mean? Which you you don't want that there. So >> [clears throat] >> um yeah, jiu-jitsu like I said, it's been about a year, but um it's been in the back of my mind the entire time. We had to learn how to balance, uh you know, my daughter moving away to college and playing soccer for college, you know, college >> She's awesome, by the way. Love watching the journey on your social media.

[00:38:33][clears throat] You're such a great dad and such a supportive um girl dad to your daughter and she's just like got a great future ahead of her. I can tell.

[00:38:41]>> Man, I am just so blessed. It You know, there's there's there is truth to the things that you read about your first kid being your experiment, right? And I mean I love being a dad.

[00:38:54]Husband and dad are if if you could slap any title on me whatsoever, those are the two that I want. Out of anything else that I do, husband and father.

[00:39:04]>> Yeah. Um I love being a dad. My daughter has experienced me not being the best dad in the world. And then I think being one of the best dads in the world, right? So she's my little ride or die.

[00:39:16]She's been through all of it with me, but I'll tell you I am so blessed to have amazing children.

[00:39:23]Um and my wife is a huge part of that.

[00:39:26]But just they're they're just fantastic.

[00:39:28]And Now, how long have you and your wife been married for? Uh Uh we got married in 2015, so 11 years this year. Awesome.

[00:39:36]>> She man, Mike I could probably talk for another hour about my wife. She's >> Yeah.

[00:39:42]When you I I joke around, but it really is true.

[00:39:44]I married way above my pay grade.

[00:39:47]She's beautiful. She is the most down to earth person you could ever meet. She's got the biggest heart.

[00:39:53]She puts up with my [ __ ] I mean [laughter] she she is an amazing mother to my little guy. She is an an amazing stepmother to my daughter. I mean I just couldn't I lucked out. God God God [clears throat] gave me a gift here and I I am I wake up every day grateful that she is my life partner cuz you guys have a great unit it's [clears throat] fully supportive. It's not just it's not just a facade you see on social media like you guys aren't presenting that you really live listen I'm not going to say we don't have our issues everyone does right and and you're actually right. I mean social media everybody's marriage and relationships are perfect.

[00:40:32]My wife and I have our our headbutt sessions. I don't think there's ever been a point we've like screamed at each other. Right.

[00:40:41]There's been points where we haven't been very happy with each other.

[00:40:44]But there is never been a doubt in my mind that that that is who I am with forever.

[00:40:51]I have a ton of time together and like obviously you guys put in the work with the kids and like doing all the things. So that's I'm just a person that knows families and like and I grew up in a family that you know that presented very well but we were never like hiding any of our vulnerabilities either like with the way that we acted and that the kind [clears throat] of trouble that my brothers and I got into like you can't hide that anyway. So like my parents were pretty humble about that by us. So you know it is what it is. So I just always have in the back of my mind that everyone's going through their things like no I'm not you know a person that's not aware that everybody goes goes through their stuff behind closed doors obviously. [clears throat] But I mean like you're you're an honest man right?

[00:41:38]So I try to be. Yeah exactly. I mean it's it's obvious. We were talking the other day too about you and your wife like inadvertently kind of fell into like not drinking for a period of time and not even realizing it.

[00:41:53]>> [laughter] >> So this past three or four days has been a little out of norm for me cuz I've had my my uncle and my aunt were in town. They're they live in Mississippi.

[00:42:05]And my uncle's a little younger. So they're really like my old brother my uncle Peter some of my my best friends right?

[00:42:13]So anytime they're in town we you know we go to the cigar bar we have some whiskey some rum we smoke some cigars. I drink more than I would typically do when they're here but yeah man I mean when you're talking day to day [clears throat] I mean there's one point where where it's kind of weird cuz you know we're up in the morning on a Sunday we're getting ready for church and then we're like and I look at the fridge you know we've got a small fridge in our you know bar area and I'm like you know some of that stuff still there from AJ's graduation party.

[00:42:45]And then we start talking like we haven't had a drink in like three months. But we're so busy. We're so and it's not but I'll tell you without it's not like we had a drinking it was just something that it just happened like it was the same for me. That's why we got ended up talking about that. I was like for me it was two years. I was like I didn't realize like [laughter] how much better I feel when I'm not doing it. You know what I mean? [clears throat] And how much easier it is to be motivated to wake up at 4:15 in the morning to go to the gym or to get those workouts in throughout your week or or just to do all the things that you need to get done.

[00:43:21]And you don't really realize it but man it's such a difference maker when you're not drinking a lot. Totally. This past few days I've woken up and I'm like what am I this is not what I remember.

[00:43:35]>> [laughter] >> Okay.

[00:43:38]Like I'm like waiting for the thing cuz I never made any kind of declaration that I wasn't drinking but I have always like for God it's been over a decade now that I've been playing around with stuff like that like you know when I started my business there was no way I could have carried on the way I was I was carrying on and started a business and going through all the things I was going through. So I had to cut that out and I just needed to know that I could. That was it. Didn't mean I didn't drink like after the fact or it doesn't mean I won't down the road. It was just I know when I need to focus internally on myself and physically. So those challenges became like invaluable to me. It was just like the best [clears throat] experiences for me cuz then I got to understand my body better and like I'm right with you on all of that. It's like it wasn't any kind of declaration but you do feel better. You know what I mean? Like it's undeniable how much better that you do feel and how much more focused you become and and you know it's something that you can weave in with moderation. You know what I mean?

[00:44:40]Like when the time is right then I know it's not like I'm going to go on an all inclusive trip and not have a drink.

[00:44:47]There are times for it and there you're going to enjoy life and it's not an issue for you.

[00:44:54]You know we were going out this weekend where were we going what bar are we going to and it was like a a necessity to we had to have a drink in your in your hand in order to be having a good time hanging out.

[00:45:04]That was something that that's been a journey for me was trying to figure out how to have a good time and be a good time without that [laughter] as the fuel for my good time. So that was frustrating to me cuz I was like well I was like I'm kind of boring like I'm not >> [laughter] >> there's not like but I'm not like it was just I think I was associating all the cuz I'm amplified like when I'm drinking so like I'm the good time guy. Like I don't have a bad time when I drink. Like I'm not one of those guys that's like a Debbie Downer >> [laughter] >> like any of that stuff. Like I'm I'm all about the good times. So like that's when I was trying to figure out the balance of like going out and doing different things when that wasn't the main focus. Cuz you know [clears throat] like we're again like back to we're around the same age and kind of coming up when we did. It was like that's just a culture. It's like we go out we drink we go to the bar that's we celebrate everything is centered around that. You go to a graduation party there's kegs. You know you go to any party there is alcohol. It's just it's just the culture and kind of navigating around that. It's like well who is it a problem for who isn't it a problem for. It's always around. Like I'm not a no wet faces no wet places kind of guy. So it's just kind of navigating where you're going to be and how how you're going to handle it. But it's okay to not drink also. Like when you're at when you're at places that that was something I needed to understand for myself. Just cuz it's there doesn't mean you have to do it right? And so well the nice thing is is as you get older that becomes more accepted. When you're younger when you're in your early mid-20s and you're the only one standing in the bar without a drink in your hand and all your friends are going oh you need a drink.

[00:46:44]If I'm at a house party or I'm somewhere right now and we're out for dinner I'm the only one without a drink and somebody goes hey do you want something?

[00:46:50]I'm good. All right cool.

[00:46:51]Like and sometimes it's not though as an as you're an adult too like it depends on the cuz I had experienced that where I'd go out or I'd go network or or or what have you and and even the adults or professionals are still like come on you got to drink. Like they're still put I'm like is this a after school special here? Come on now.

[00:47:13]Yeah man I mean my my first apartment I worked for I won't drop the name of it but it was a local bar town really hopping bar town in this area.

[00:47:24]And I mean that's just what we did. I mean we worked afternoons you'd get off at 11:00 you'd go to one of the you know 20 bars in the city.

[00:47:34]Time went on and then you'd sleep at your partner's house who lived in the city. You know what I mean? And then you'd wake up go home shower get ready go back to work next day and then like at some point you're just like okay.

[00:47:45]It's a hamster wheel.

[00:47:46]Man right? And then once you know once I became once my daughter my daughter's mom and I split and it was more of that single father aspect it just wasn't as big of a role for me anymore. You know the nights I didn't have her I might but I wouldn't when I had her.

[00:48:10]It just kind of progressed from there and then >> [clears throat] >> you know again my wife I don't I don't need to have a drink in my hand to enjoy the time I spend with her. I mean we have a blast doing the dumbest stuff.

[00:48:24]Not to mention too you guys are both into wellness. Like I mean aside from I mean alcohol is not like part of the wellness plan but it is a good way to blow off steam for some couples when they're relaxing. Like you said you're going on vacation you're going to have a cocktail you're going to do the thing.

[00:48:41]You're enjoying your time with your wife. But I mean for the most part as I know you I know you from the wellness space. So right? So we have a lot in common there [clears throat] and I don't know I thought we'd take a little dive into like what wellness practices work for you. You know what I mean? Balancing your life cuz you know any any guys I think that now right now right now wellness is trending which is great because there's more men like you or similar to that are on your path but want to be right? And so like what what are great starting points for someone that like we'll take the single dad aspect into it but like wants to be a great dad and like but working all the time and you're caught up in drinking culture or whatever culture you're caught up in it but it's not wellness.

[00:49:27]You know what I mean? Like what are great starting points? What do you recommend [clears throat] for somebody listening?

[00:49:32]It has to become a non-negotiable.

[00:49:37]Um Okay, you're a single dad.

[00:49:42]You're working the line.

[00:49:44]You're working 12 plus hour shifts.

[00:49:45]You're getting forced to work more.

[00:49:46]You're trying to make as much money as you can to put food on the table and create more of a legacy for your kid and you and that's a struggle.

[00:49:53]I mean doing that as a middle class person is a struggle, right? Um and that that doesn't mean you got to go to you have to go to your gym and spend two hours there every day regardless.

[00:50:06]If all you can get in that day is some body weight stuff or you're keeping your heart rate up and you're doing push-ups and you're doing some pull-ups at home and you're doing sit-ups and you're you know, you're you're keeping yourself active.

[00:50:21]Anything that you can do is better than nothing. Absolutely.

[00:50:24]>> That's a start.

[00:50:25]>> Yep.

[00:50:26]That's a start. When I when I I didn't start so I played hockey.

[00:50:31]So I was always healthy.

[00:50:34]I didn't start weightlifting until my mid to late 20s.

[00:50:40]Um and that only came because I'm being honest with you. I got my ass handed to me in a fight on the job by some big dude who was getting thrown out of a bar and I told myself that will never happen again.

[00:50:52]>> Yeah. Or they're at least going to know that they fought me. You know what I mean?

[00:50:56]>> Mhm. Um I'm kind of glad that happened though because it set me on this path and now Um um it's just a non-negotiable. You know, you you have to schedule it. You have to put it into your schedule. I don't like getting up at 4:15 in the morning.

[00:51:12]But that's when it works for me.

[00:51:14]Cuz I work out.

[00:51:16]I go to the police job. I get off from the police job. I do several hours for Logic.

[00:51:20]I have dinner with my family. I spend some time with them. I go to bed. Rinse, wash, and repeat, right? It's Monday through Friday. Saturdays Sundays I do a little different, but um you also have to wrap your mind around being an example for the people around you.

[00:51:37]Especially if you have children.

[00:51:39]>> Mhm. Habits are learned, right? Your kids are going to do what they see you doing.

[00:51:45]Um That's a great point. I was just reflecting on this with my own parents the other day because I again say I had a great parents, right? Well, they weren't perfect by any means and you know cuz you're a parent and you fess up like I mean my dad's the kind of man that will tell you like where he where he feels he faltered as he reflects back. [snorts] Probably knew it during the time. You know what I mean? But he knew how to self-correct during those times and so um I think that what you say is true. I mean the people around you are picking up on the what you're role modeling, right? And so I know I did because I didn't even want to you know, the last person I wanted to be was my parents when I was a teenager >> [laughter] >> and then as I like became older and started realizing like what other people how other people's parents were and how they were role modeled to like wow, it really you I kind of figured out early that I was a good blend of both parents and I carried that on throughout my life, but only when you're older and can appreciate that will you reflect and and really embrace it.

[00:52:53]>> 100%. I mean and that's not just I mean that's everything, right?

[00:52:57]>> Yeah.

[00:52:59]Parenting to me I you know, raising a boy and a girl it's they're two totally different things, right? So when you're raising a girl you're you're you have to keep in mind you're you are teaching this girl the type of man that she should want to be with in the future.

[00:53:15]When you're raising a boy, you are teaching this boy the type of man that he should be. So there there's different variables to each one, right? Um and I think faith plays a huge factor in that, right? Um whatever you believe in if you believe strongly in that faith, then you should be raising your family in that faith.

[00:53:37]Personally, I'm a Christian, okay? Um I wasn't a very active Christian for a long time. I was raised in the church.

[00:53:45]My mom was very heavy into the church.

[00:53:47]Um but there was a long period of time where I I was not very active in it.

[00:53:52]And then one day I don't know what it was. Something just snapped in me and said, "Look man, you need to get your kids and your your family you need to be leading them into church and >> [sighs] >> we just we started going back. Um and and you know, my wife who came from a completely different religious background um uh I would say it wasn't a very healthy one, but you know, there's there's room for for talk there. I don't want to make too many judgments. Um she was just baptized on Good Friday.

[00:54:25]Amazing. Congratulations. [laughter] And my daughter now who is in college who still does the normal college things that a college kid would, you know, parties and things like that.

[00:54:35]But she's regularly reading her Bible at night and my son is is adamant about getting to church and loves it. So so it starts there for me.

[00:54:46]And then there's the fitness aspect and then there's the how you treat other people aspect and then you know, for my son it's like we talked about being somebody that people feel safe around. For my daughter it's about leading, you know, be a leader. You have what it takes to be a leader no matter what you're doing. Step up, you know, and I I see so many kids now especially in this these schools where they're parented by electronics. Mhm.

[00:55:14]Yeah.

[00:55:15]Right?

[00:55:16]>> Yep.

[00:55:17]They're they're they go home from school.

[00:55:20]They're on their phone. They're on their tablet. They're on their Xbox. They're on their computer. They're and this is what they spend four, five, six hours a day doing.

[00:55:29]>> Yeah.

[00:55:30]And you can tell the difference. Yep.

[00:55:33]>> You can tell the difference. Especially with the ones that were COVID kids, man.

[00:55:36]Like they're some of that you couldn't avoid.

[00:55:38]>> Right.

[00:55:39]>> During COVID these kids were were screwed. Yeah. You know, they got they got such a bad such a bad situation placed in front of them that there was almost no veering away from that.

[00:55:50]>> No.

[00:55:51]>> [clears throat] >> But yeah, just be a strong leader your family.

[00:55:54]Whatever you believe in just try to be a good person.

[00:55:58]>> Yeah. And lead in that.

[00:56:01]That's that's that's the best way. I mean it's the best way. It's a simple, right?

[00:56:05]>> Yeah. No, I think it's awesome. I think it's a you know, it's you've had an inspiring path. I mean from the career in the military. I mean the whole your whole story is great and I think that at this stage in your life now you're so honed in and focused on well, you know who you are. You know you're evolving and you know that like it's a continuum. It never ends the growth and the learning process. It never ends, right? And so like that's what I love about being a student of life. It's like not you're not the master of anything, right? Just the master of yourself and and continuing to grow and and leading for your family. I think it's awesome.

[00:56:42]And uh I think I definitely appreciate you and the and the knowledge that you share with me in the wellness space because that's important, you know, not more now than ever. It's like diet, exercise, mental health, wellness, the whole the whole package, right? It's like something everyone needs to dial in on for longevity and I don't want to I'm not a person that wants to age and experience all of the tragedy that comes with aging for for folks that aren't honed in on those on those variables.

[00:57:16]You know what I mean? Like you watch like I worked in a at a very young age in a nursing home watching dementia and like and and all of the things that come with those types of things. If there is any kind of preventative maintenance to take, I want to take it. Not for me it's wellness practices. I like to be in shape. I like to keep my muscle tone good. I like to be fit and all those things, but then you know, some and I'm not a person that I've never I was just thinking about this the other day. I don't think I've ever experienced jealousy towards another man. Only like admiration or like applause for them, Yeah. right? And so I've never I've never known what it's like to be like that um as far as jealousy thing goes, but I'm always um happy to surround myself with people that aren't in the same shape I'm in, right? If you're if you're a bodybuilder, that's great cuz I'm going to learn from you and you know what I'm saying? Like there's same same for you.

[00:58:09]You've got your A team around you.

[00:58:11]And the the guys that you're going to be able to give advice to are more in alignment with you with your frame, your size and and your practices and those guys offer to the guys that more align with them. So and when you don't have jealousy and competition and among a group of guys that can collaborate like that, that's gold because it's also very rare as you know, like just I I think um not only for men, for women, too and just the human race in general. A lot of people do live in competition and being jealousy and those are things that I don't have time or space in my heart for, period. Like I want a group of I and I want to do business and network with groups of guys like you and Jesse that are helping other people elevate, not competing to keep you another man down. Like that's Yeah.

[00:59:02]>> Those are good principles.

[00:59:03]>> Oh, absolutely. And that >> And you know, what you those two differences what you're talking about.

[00:59:08]My two jobs are very much in contrast.

[00:59:11]Right.

[00:59:13]The law enforcement world traditionally a lot of good people not all that supportive.

[00:59:22]Okay?

[00:59:24]Um I won't I'm not going to talk [ __ ] about it. It's it's a it's a great career and it's got some of the bravest men and women I've ever met.

[00:59:32]But the words good job rarely come out of people's mouths.

[00:59:36]>> Yeah.

[00:59:38]So when I switched to working with Logic and working with Jesse and Elise and Kyle and Mora and Tommy and now Nick and and Anna and all these people that are involved and anytime you're doing something positive somebody's throwing it out there. Even if you're not mentioning it, they see something you did as as your invoices or your notes come in and they're like, "Hey, just want to say, you know, Dave, great job on this. This is somebody we've been talking to for a long time. I know you're going to change your life." That kind of thing.

[01:00:07]And it's such a supportive environment and it's something so different than 19 years of what I've done. Now Now don't get me wrong, when things go wrong, these people will be here for you. For sure.

[01:00:18]Okay? But on the day-to-day >> Yeah. Listen, I got to tell you. I don't want to cut you off, but like I've been in the mental health field for 30 years, right? And And we both do great things.

[01:00:28]We're We're both humans of service.

[01:00:31]Um it's the same. So like I there's good and bad, right? In every in every area and every aspect of things, but um it can also be a very toxic environment for me that I've experienced and I think most people in any in any um human services field are going to experience that. You know, I saw I What you say resonates with me. I hear you.

[01:00:57]I feel a lot more frustration in my day-to-day on that side of things.

[01:01:02]And I feel a lot more positivity and hope on this side of things.

[01:01:09]>> Well, I think you're an agent of change and we have that in common. And so when you're part of a network that's existed from the beginning of our time, right?

[01:01:20]And beyond that um you don't feel like you're able to make the change that you want to, make the impact that you want to. I've experienced that time and time again. It sent me into a depression. It's sent me into a downward spiral at times and I had to start focusing more on things that make me happy and where I can make change, impact and difference. And I think that's what you're doing. You know, sometimes it's not about giving up or [ __ ] talking any or [ __ ] talking anybody or any industry or field.

[01:01:53]It's just go where you can make the change. Go where you can make difference and And that definitely has to start with you. It definitely has to start with you understanding that and then and then finding your tribe that you can make those those changes with, right? Yeah. I mean, law enforcement traditionally and by nature is a whole creature of habit.

[01:02:13]>> Yeah. This is how we've always done it.

[01:02:16]You do have some places that are more forward-thinking, but it's very Change is very difficult within the law enforcement community.

[01:02:22]>> Yeah. There's a lot of change that could be made in the mental health side of things. Totally.

[01:02:26]>> only speak when it comes to the law enforcement profession when you're referring to to mental health.

[01:02:31]>> Right. I respect hugely what you do.

[01:02:33]When you you told that story um I think it was with Mike Kim. You told that story about um having to go to the house where the guy had busted out all the windows, had thrown everything including the kitchen sink out on the floor.

[01:02:49]>> Literally.

[01:02:51]And those situations require a certain level of understanding.

[01:02:59]Right?

[01:03:00]Um I am I do the best that I can and after 19 years in law enforcement I've experienced enough mental health runs that I think I have a good handle on how to approach them. Yeah. But I'm never going to be able to relate or handle them as well as somebody like you can. That comes with experience and also comes with life experience, right? Um if you're an 18-year-old police officer who just came out of high school or you you unless you have your own unique life experiences you're seeing this stuff for the first time. Yeah. It's also scary and it's intimidating and you know, like I said >> not recognize the value to having somebody like you there to de-escalate, to be able to to, you know, offer a different solution because you just went through a cat an academy and I think now they do a better job of doing more mental health stuff in police academies and that, but you came out of that years ago. You came out of an academy that, "Okay, this guy's causing a ruckus on the front lawn. There's public alarm. People expect something to be done. If he doesn't stop, he goes to jail." Or you take him to the hospital on a petition.

[01:04:03]He's there for maybe 72 hours and he's right back out and you're going right back to the house. That was my life on a hamster wheel, dude. [laughter] >> Wash, rinse, repeat, man.

[01:04:10]And that's the frustrating part as a cop when you show up to the same house over and over again and you're like I'm not helping him. Right. Put it Fighting with him, putting him in handcuffs, transporting him against his will to the hospital where they go over him. He knows how to answer the questions now. He knows what to say to these people so they don't hold him any longer. Then he's back in his house.

[01:04:30]He stops taking his meds again because they gave them to him at the hospital, but now he's not going to take them at home. No. And now we're back there again and we're doing this over and over again. And then and then you just get some point you're like, "Okay, that's where you feel like the system's broken and like how do we get How do we get out of this?" Because like that was the gig for me on a daily basis. It was like 12 hours of that a day. Well, what's also I think frustrating for people too is that there's like the invisible disability. Like mental health is not very visible all the time, right? Like it doesn't You're not always talking about um people with um like cerebral palsy in a wheelchair where something is visible. Like PTSD.

[01:05:10]Right, exactly. So you have that working against you too as a police officer.

[01:05:14]Like how do you recognize the signs? You know, they go through the academy and stuff, but like I was working with people like where there really were no indicators, right? Until it was already happening. The thing was already happening. Yes. So I mean, you had your work cut out for you and so did I.

[01:05:29]But we live to tell, right? And so I mean, there were days I didn't think I would. And they do the further I get into this career, they do the more training is being required and incorporated into de-escalation and into mental health situations, how to acknowledge and how to um you know, identify that somebody's having a mental health issues opposed to them just being a drunk and disorderly person.

[01:05:53]>> Right. Um so I'm glad to see that that's happening. It It is starting to come around, but I mean, the it's just the beginning. There's a lot of work to do there. Absolutely.

[01:06:03]>> And it'll never be perfect, right, Mike?

[01:06:04]I mean, you You and I both know that mental health is a tough one, man. It is. How do you It affects everything. Right.

[01:06:11]>> And it affects guys like you who have to go deal with it, right?

[01:06:13]>> Right. Cuz like now let's say you were at a you know, you're you're at Thanksgiving and and you get called away to go deal with it and you're there for 2 hours.

[01:06:21]And then you come back.

[01:06:22]And your family's also there and they're all hanging out. And how do you leave it away? Leave it >> leave it away?

[01:06:27]>> Yeah, exactly.

[01:06:28]>> And when they ask you what you did, how do you explain that to them without >> And then you're reliving it again, right? And you can't even come back and enjoy. You're just trying to have a seamless transition back into your day, but you can't cuz everyone wants to know the scoop. And then you got to, you know, relive it again and then it's a Yeah, it's a continuum. It's tough. It can be dark. I find myself getting irritated sometimes because uh people are by nature nosy. Yes.

[01:06:54]>> And once you start to Is empathy the right word? Once you start to feel some empathy for these people in my mind sometimes I'm like, "It's none of your damn business."

[01:07:05]>> Yeah, right.

[01:07:06]What do you It's It's It's their business. Leave them alone. Right.

[01:07:09]>> it's private matter.

[01:07:10]>> It's a private matter. It's totally.

[01:07:12]It's handled. Yeah. You don't need to know, Mr. Neighbor coming down five doors down to ask me if everything's okay. Yeah. Yes, I'm going to tell you everything's fine. And you need to leave it at that.

[01:07:20]>> That's huge in a residential setting too cuz I dealt with that and then I became the enemy cuz I like worked with the guy. Like I've I've been like had people try to run me down with their car. You know what I mean? Cuz they think I'm part of the problem cuz like I'm trying to integrate the guy, you know, to help him feel safe in the community in his home. Right. You know, but like everyone doesn't know all the details, but they want to know everything. But then you're dealing with like HIPAA and all the privacy acts and all the things. So it's like, yeah, it's not It's not always like the funnest space to be. It's not.

[01:07:49]But like when you're born to be in it, like you know what I mean? You're walking your path and it's like, yeah, no. But I think that um I think it's been amazing to watch you like evolve from one thing to the next and just learning learning more about you and you sharing your story has been inspiring for me and you'll continue to be an inspiration for me and I think that uh you know, your kids and your wife are lucky to have you as a leader and uh as a father and as a husband. That's just, you know, um there's no better place to be than the place that you're in, right? I appreciate that, Mike. Same for you, man. Um the conversations we've had, I respect a lot with you do with your nonprofit um the work that you do.

[01:08:32]Uh I really like what you're doing here, what you're trying to do here with the podcast. Um and I'm really glad that we finally got to physically connect instead of always just being over the phone, man. So hopefully uh hopefully we can keep this going and get some cool stuff Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:46]Well, Dave, where can Twitch actually Where can folks find you on social media or connect with you for anything [clears throat] in the wellness space?

[01:08:54]>> Yeah, so uh wellness space, um my business email is [email protected].

[01:09:00]Shoot me a message, you know, we'll chat a little bit and then then that's great, you know what I mean? Um this is the first time I've ever been put put myself out on any kind of a platform. So this is new to me, so >> It's good. Like you're you have a lot to offer as far as as far as the wellness space goes and just sharing your story. I mean, like you're good to connect with, you know?

[01:09:19]You're a good person. Yeah. I've enjoyed this. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah, awesome. All right, guys. Follow Twitch, follow Dave on his handles and that's a wrap.