Football Fans Have HAD ENOUGH! VAR, Systems vs Talent & Club Over Country?

Added: 2026-05-04

[00:00:00]I'm Zach Jibb and this is Opinion Under Review. As you can see, we're back in the studio talking about some of football's hottest takes with some of the best creators. We're going to be talking about whether systems and tactics and players and talent is more important, whether the V is ruining football and of course with the World Cup coming up, are we club over country?

[00:00:21]Bar's an idiot then, is he?

[00:00:24]No perspective is done everywhere but >> pot throw in then.

[00:00:30]>> No, shut up. This is opinion under review.

[00:00:37]>> All right, we're kicking things off with systems matter more than talent. Who would like to come first? Luka, come on then.

[00:00:46]>> Welcome. Welcome. The statement systems matter more than talent. Where are you sitting on that? I think it's a thin line, but I agree with it mostly. I think systems are more important than talent. There's a few examples I can give. Of course, PSG when they had Neymar Messi and Mbappe, arguably the best front three of all time on paper, never won anything with it. They had to sacrifice a few players. And actually, a great example is Antonio Conte. I think he's the best manager that elevates individual players who are quite considered average or below parable players. Scott McTominay, but even like Victor Moses, no disrespect, Zapak Costa, Au Juventus, Alessandro Mi, like he elevated everyone. With his system, we saw the best out of certain individuals that were never considered some of the best in the league in their position, but of course having no talent in your team, you're going to struggle to win, but systems in general are the most important thing.

[00:01:33]>> Do you think, sorry to interrupt, that do you think the Jurgen club, you know, when Liverpool was smashing everyone? I made a um statement a few years back that Liverpool are a great team with average players.

[00:01:47]>> I was going to ask you like so you believe it was the individuals or do you believe it was Jurgen Klo because I think those players suited his system the Genan pressing the pressing from the front the perfect transition football like he would not have elevated those players to the heights that they got if they didn't play that super effective transition football. I think that Liverpool team is arguably the best in transition I've seen in the in the Premier League. Do you think there's a better player, Skoles or Henderson?

[00:02:07]>> Skulls.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah, obviously. Who would be better in that system?

[00:02:10]>> Henderson.

[00:02:11]>> There you go. Exactly.

[00:02:12]>> Because the system overrides the individual like the Galactic. But is there an argument I agree with that is there an argument to say though that it depends who the talent is. Manchester United's when Wayne Rooney was playing in that side, the way for Man United to play was to get the ball to Wayne Rooney.

[00:02:26]>> No, no. Rooney sacrificed himself for Ronaldo >> in Ronaldo's case. when Ronaldo it was all about Wayne Rooney >> perfectly because everyone else worked hard enough for him to be platform but again the system's being made for the talent you know if there is no Ronaldo in that system if there's no Rooney in that system then that's not the same system as well >> you need special players you need special players to make the system work in the first place you can't have 11 Jordan Henderson >> real counteract everything that you've just said because they they sacked a manager who was arguably the most successful in terms of win rate Alonzo because the system was crap and Bale said himself all he had to do is just manage the egos let the talent the talent then they are the most successful and the biggest club in world football.

[00:03:03]>> Look at when Zidane was there. Look at when Carlo Angelotti was there. He's not sitting there making >> it didn't work did it era for sure. But eras post that have definitely worked.

[00:03:10]If we remember if we remember clearly Isco benched Bale because of the system because Isco platformed that Madrid team to a better >> an idiot then is he jump up jump up. You're probably a little bit more on to where I look. I think we've all agreed that it's a bit of both, but it's about which one is the dominant factor. I think you've got arguably one of the best managers, if not the best manager of all time in charge of your club who who has brought in many a system. Do you still think that it's the players that have made that perfect for you guys? When he won the Champs League, his first Champs League in English football, he needed Harlem to score 52 goals in 53 league appearances. That's individual brilliance. The system gets Can I finish the point? You get you get to a certain level and you need De Bruyne to do to do special things. is you need people to score goals in finals to get you over the line. Arsenal have a great system.

[00:03:59]They get to a cup final against Man City in the League Cup. They have the system's nowhere near good enough because they don't have individual brilliance. Yakarez had three touches all game >> and they're going to win the league.

[00:04:08]>> You don't know that. You don't know that. I ask you a question. In the League Cup final, if they had Tony up front instead of Yarez, just one example, just one slightly better player, would they have won the league cup?

[00:04:18]>> They couldn't get the ball to see better players in a better system because get the ball out. I'd rather have better players in a better system every day.

[00:04:25]went off injured in the final and you still won cuz the system outweighs the individual >> individual brilliance from Rody all season. That's why you won the balon door. That's why >> Let me let me tag out. We're going to bring in Oie and then I'll bring in you Steve. Let me do Ollie quickly first. Go ahead matey.

[00:04:40]>> Um this is actually quite a pertinent argument at Palace at the moment. Okay.

[00:04:45]>> First of all, stop laughing.

[00:04:47]>> Second of all, I'm not sure if you're aware but we won the FA Cup last season.

[00:04:50]I don't really like talking about either. But he got Glas got asked in an interview recently about how a lot of the fans aren't happy at the moment because we don't have the Maverick attackers that we're used to having. So like Ezaha, etc. And us Palace fans want to see those talents.

[00:05:05]>> And he basically said like, well, if they were so good, why were Palace always in the relegation zone? I won them the FA Cup last season with my system. We win that cup partly because of the system. Like the way we scored against City, I've seen us score that goal a million times. But we also won it because EZ scored a scream in the quarterfinal and in the semi-final. So if wasn't playing for you, do you win that cup?

[00:05:24]>> No.

[00:05:25]>> So would that not suggest that the talent is more important? You don't win that system either.

[00:05:30]>> Cuz I think I think offensively talent matters more. I think defensively system like >> what matters more then Palace because we've been talking about all like the biggest teams in the world.

[00:05:43]It is all system based. But if you are to break through into that top that's where you get need the brilliance. So Newcastle for example, we've lost our best player um the rat himself, EAC, >> and all a sudden we're terrible. So but it's the system that is what platform.

[00:05:56]So I argue that I feel like if you're a lower team to be able to fight against the people who have the best players, it's all about system 100%. But if you are to break into sort of trophy winning space, it you need to have like an absolute >> do you think the system won you the League Cup?

[00:06:12]>> I think no.

[00:06:12]>> Oh, do you think so? The reason the reason that Isak scored so many goals with was the system and the way we facilitated.

[00:06:20]>> Is it because he's an incred like like like slot?

[00:06:25]He's the iPhone. Jacob Murphy was the charger. He took it away and now he's useless. But the reason why Newcastle terrible now is we don't have that focal point. So we do have a system that no longer works cuz we've lost that brilliance and that's why we fell on the table and that's why Palace are a bit useless now.

[00:06:40]I'm going to swap Steo in because he's he's desperate. Tag him in.

[00:06:44]>> WWE. Welcome, >> S. Go ahead.

[00:06:48]>> First of all, boys, there's a bit of a the chicken and egg thing going on here.

[00:06:51]System player, so let's not get carried away.

[00:06:54]>> But what I will say as a West Ham fan, I've had both. I saw an incredible team with individual brilliance throughout get relegated. I then years later saw David Moyes who had a great system. It was boring. But with that boredom of the system, we had a maverick in uh Declan Rice and he was pushing us now towards the top six, not the big six as well.

[00:07:19]Would you say >> boring as well? We had a couple um even Cudis in one season, but it was definitely Declan, >> we was if without Declan, we would be where we are now this season. But with Declan, we was pushing and we won that conference. So I've seen what a good system individual can do. But okay, I know what you said about chicken and egg. Which one did come first, the chicken or the which which one is more dominant, the system or the talent?

[00:07:44]>> I'd say listen, system matters.

[00:07:47]>> System matters and system can take you so far. It can make you hard to play against.

[00:07:52]>> The consistency of system matters.

[00:07:53]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:07:53]>> So, sorry. Did you call Rav Maverick by the way?

[00:07:57]>> One. Yeah.

[00:07:58]>> Oh, okay.

[00:08:00]But is Bruno a Maverick?

[00:08:01]>> Of course he is.

[00:08:02]>> Okay.

[00:08:06]Okay, >> that's all I wanted to say.

[00:08:08]>> Okay, but I but I don't feel like you've given the answer here because I don't think you So would you. So if I said to you system matters more than talent, you would say >> yes because West Ham got relegated with the >> with the individuals >> Carrick.

[00:08:22]>> Yeah, >> the foe. Like I can go on and on clear like >> and then when we had a dead team which by the way I love Sek and a few of the players we got but they're average.

[00:08:32]Yeah, for sure football results that I've seen with West Ham, you know what I mean? So, definitely system matters. Um, but you got to have a bit of talent with it.

[00:08:43]>> For sure with talent.

[00:08:45]>> George, jump up as well cuz I do think there's an interesting conversation about Spurs, Harry Kane leaving, looking at the talent that's in the side right now, but with no system.

[00:08:54]>> Yeah, I mean, obviously seen it firstand with Spurs. I think obviously Pochettino's system was great for us.

[00:08:59]great attacking football. But I think as we've seen sort of over the years after that era, I think Kane and Sun in particular have sort of papered over the cracks for the rest of the team has sort of brought the talent like their talent made us good. Like we got top four with Dier and Longlay at center back Sanchez.

[00:09:16]>> That's because again like Conte system >> sort of brought them up to that like they were saying before got them up to that level and played well.

[00:09:22]>> But sometimes world class talent takes you above the edge and I think a good example is company. I think company system with Burnley in the Premier League >> was atrocious. It's almost the opposite to what Ste was saying. It didn't work because the players weren't good enough, >> but that exact same style >> of play moved it to Bayern with world class players. All of a sudden, they're one of the best teams in Europe. I think it'll come in cycles again like we've seen with football and trends. I think right now system is most important because everyone's it's like a chess game. Everyone's trying to do little things like can we get better long throws? Can we do this that and the other? You're now going to need that extra level of talent, that extra level of brilliance where it's like a turkey or something like that to unlock those >> tough >> defenses popular now. Like managers with a philosophy almost regardless of whether the philosophy is successful or not.

[00:10:10]Managers with a philosophy are seen as being progressive, noble, exciting, and employable. There are so many examples.

[00:10:17]Ruben Amry at Manchester United, he got the job because he had a philosophy and kept the job for far too long because he had a philosophy. I think Luca initially made a point about Antonio Conte and I think that that is a perfect example. If you think about that Chelsea side that won the league, >> I don't think there's ever been a more pertinent accurate example to show that it was a manager like Chelsea won the league. the player who's the player that comes on against Arsenal where he is great. He got the top four which is fant that was the system but when you need to break that next barrier to get the first >> three in a row as well >> and he also won the league with in his second season won won the league with Napoli in his first season taking them from 10th to first like and Chelsea 10th to first >> so he's done it no disrespect he's done it everywhere but Tottenham >> and he's always successful like people will tell you that it went wrong for Conte in that second season but it's a bit of a myth we won the we beat Jose Mourinho in the final I'm going to contradict myself here now, but I guess the Brightons and Brenfords have proven that the system in terms of the club as a whole with the same style of football.

[00:11:22]>> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree arguably on this one. Uh let's move on to the next one.

[00:11:37]Now, this is something I've got a big opinion on. V is killing football. Who would like to take the chair? Cody, come on.

[00:11:47]>> Come on, mate.

[00:11:51]>> Honestly, I'll be honest with you, man.

[00:11:52]V is a waste of time.

[00:11:53]>> I hate V.

[00:11:55]>> Why do you hate it, G? Why do you hate it?

[00:11:56]>> Put it this way. It still gets things wrong all the time. I see Amadiano get ambushed in a box. They're not even trying to get it wrong.

[00:12:06]>> They look at it and tell me it's not a foul. Like how? We all know it's a foul.

[00:12:09]>> I like Var. I'm a I'm a fan of VAR and I think VA is a good thing.

[00:12:14]>> We are chess fans. We disagree on a lot of things. We disagree on a lot of things. The V for me, the actual concept of it is good.

[00:12:22]>> The issue is the people running it.

[00:12:25]>> And that's where I think we actually are. It's not >> you think is but why do you not get you know there were just as many annoying moments preva where you would learn about someone being >> off that's all right maybe that's all right but listen the thing is I feel like if it's getting wrong anyways you might as well just take it away >> but why why should we not improve it like the whole point invar is I think we I think we want decisions to go right sometimes like for instance you mentioned Ahmed Dio right >> unfortunately that's football football's subjective you might think tell you that's a foul though.

[00:12:58]>> But sometimes it's not like with a with a foul in like a moment in the box in a penalty situation sometimes it's a subjective decision where you've got to accept as the referee or as somebody else they might look at football slightly different to you. But >> I don't see how four men or five men how many men it is can look at that and say it's not a foul. If someone's putting someone in the box or clamping or hand >> but this is where I think your issue is referees.

[00:13:19]>> Yeah.

[00:13:19]>> That's your issue because if referees are doing it right you would look at VAR and go actually they've given the foul they've given the penalty. they've given the foul and you're okay with that. Your issue is actually referees like the statement should probably be refereeing in England is killing football. That's where I think you might be hate when you score a goal you celebrate and yeah it's talked >> but don't you love it when it's when they score and then it's turned around back in the days we all got long back in the days like no one cared. You got a lot of decisions, you know. I definitely got a lot of decisions.

[00:13:51]>> As a Fulham fan, like I've seen us recently with obviously Tom West Brom like in the championship. I enjoyed going to those games more. Not just cuz we won every week, but because your goal goes in and you're just with your mates celebrating whereas now you're in the stadium, you won every week as well.

[00:14:03]Definitely won seven three times the same season. But it was just for me. And the issue is you say, "Oh, it's the people using it. Who's going to use it?"

[00:14:11]They're not going to ask us like we are.

[00:14:15]Is there anything more boring than watching four people discuss whether someone's elbows on side or offside for five minutes? Just give them.

[00:14:20]>> But that's where the issue is. But again, that's like the ruling of how a line an offside line is called. Uh the the guys that make the decisions are so like up in their own heads all the time now cuz they know every decision is going to be so scrutinized.

[00:14:33]>> If you think the problem are referees, what you're doing with V and supporting VR is saying let's bring more power into into the game. You're saying like referees are bad. Let's get more of them involved.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah, let's ref more.

[00:14:42]>> I'm saying we need to improve the referee.

[00:14:48]The problem you have with that is you get a situation where it's subjective.

[00:14:52]So why are we going to why are we going through the rigma roll V to have a subjective decision? You might as well just let the bloke on the pitch decide.

[00:14:59]But how many how many times have we sat here before ghost goal, you know, years ago for Chelsea? Sure. Okay. Yeah, that would happen. But how many times we've been here where somebody has been fouled and given a red card that wasn't a foul.

[00:15:12]It was a dive or how many times we've been here before it happened for you a lot. That's why you for anybody else want to jump up. Go on Kofi mate. Well done. Where do you sit on this mate? Because I feel like you've been opinionated.

[00:15:28]>> I think these are all the problem. All you are is the problem. It's actually you know what >> include yourself in this.

[00:15:32]>> I know I like VA. I think I think it's has problems but it's by the way he used to despise by until they played Villa and there was a few cat decision a game they actually won by the way and now he's four um I survived 45 minutes without before thinking this is the worst thing ever because referees number one we're not about improving referees for when they can see the decision and the way to improve that is by just taking away slow motion cameras and making them do on the spot They're useless. They're worse than they've ever been. And I I don't think I'm the only one here who can truly admit it has improved since they first bought brought in brought it.

[00:16:14]There are mistakes one way or the other.

[00:16:17]So for me, it's >> it does bring out I the bit I don't like is where >> they're getting a bit too involved and you don't know if you can celebrate a goal. But unfortunately that's just like part of the giveaway. I'd much rather that than be a cup when I shouldn't we shouldn't be knocked out.

[00:16:31]>> That's football. We've been part of the giveaway that we're giving away part the soul of the game is to celebrate euphoria in in in the moment. If Harry goal if Harry Kane scores in the World Cup fin we're worried about V that is by definition in the World Cup final someone scores against us on the off side but there's no >> I'd rather get scrapped and England win nothing for >> us game I saw the referee um he's looking straight at it it's a penalty he's looking straight at it >> he knows no he knows it's a pen >> got the He waits. He does three minutes or four or five minutes. Then he comes back then, then he gives the pen. But he knew that was the issue in the Newcastle Villa game. By the way, why they didn't have VA in that is mental to me.

[00:17:18]>> But the reason the ref was so bad in that game is cuz they they're so used to having the agree to this. I would agree to this. So that's why, look, in our league, don't get me wrong, the FL refs aren't the best, but it does it does even itself out. Honestly, >> what I'm saying is there is no going back now. We've had 100% 100% they just they need to improve the way they minister it and not and stop being so pedantic over the smallest of things. It was bought in for massive massive errors. The honor and ball uh the ghost goals all that go technology covers that. It should be for massive decision.

[00:17:51]You don't want that right 5050. Just go with the on that on that kind of thing.

[00:17:56]Can I just ask a question? I'm not even giving my opinion here. Just in terms of like football, all football fans all know the history. Is football better for the conversation in the history of Maradonas Campbell, Frank Lampard in Blum Font?

[00:18:12]>> They shouldn't say this argument that that that is such a niche that doesn't happen every week that gets applied for the West Ham versus Bournemouth. We're not always talking about Maradona with this one-off fluke thing. Yes, that is an amazing part of history, but the game is always going to be advance. And they're even talking about having managers the ability to bring to object a decision.

[00:18:35]>> You jump. Well done, Lewis. Well done.

[00:18:37]>> Um, well done.

[00:18:40]I think Jack, do you know what? I think that's an I think that's an interesting thing. It's all very well trying to make the perfect game, but football to it to to its benefit, I think, >> imperfections >> has imperfections. And that's fine. Like there's a lot about football that doesn't work. And a lot of the time people get upset, they go to the pub, they talk about with their mates and turn.

[00:19:00]>> But what do we all say pre? What did we all say before V? God, I wish there was a way referees could look on that. I think with regard to I think you can say with regard to the intent, right?

[00:19:15]>> With the intent, >> it was a great idea. I was for it. I thought this is going to be great.

[00:19:20]Football needs it. What happened in Blon Fontaine was a disgrace and it could never happen again. And then in practice it has removed so much from the game. It was a great experiment. It was a noble experiment. It was the right thing to do. But we have now learned that it doesn't work and it takes from the game.

[00:19:35]>> But can it not be improved? Like why does why does the result have to be no longer do the reason why a million people in England spend money and commit their time to traveling around the entire country to watch football is what are they doing? Why are they doing that?

[00:19:49]For one reason. The reason is they're junkies. They're chasing a buzz. And the buzz that they're chasing is a last minute winner against Tottenham. That's what you're doing. But do we not still celebrate it still? No, you don't. I've been in the ground. I've waited. I've I've been in the ground. I haven't >> We still celebrate and then we go to >> How many games? You go to games. You do.

[00:20:18]He says, "Rory Rory's great." He goes, "I know. Um what you what you don't get what you don't get with the modern day thing a proper celebration and I don't know if this is because maybe people don't know they were young co they haven't seen it a proper celebration is when Ivanovic scored in at Anfield and it goes and everything goes your shins are done on the seat in front you're with people you don't know you're on the floor like it's wild that doesn't happen you had that still I had that versus Germany I had Commit. You can't commit.

[00:20:52]>> You know what, Rory? You've got to let it go. Commit commit. Start committing.

[00:21:00]Jump up. Jump up a second. Jump up a second.

[00:21:02]>> Man City less the other day against Arsenal.

[00:21:05]>> Exactly. Exactly.

[00:21:08]>> And when Max Dman goes through and scores like the the limbs are absolutely all over the place. V is not ruining football. It's making the game fairer.

[00:21:16]Yes. You might be talking about, oh, I absolutely think it's making the game fairer. Like, >> but football isn't fair. Football's not a fair game.

[00:21:24]Isn't fair doesn't mean you can't chase it to be as fair as possible. Just like you're saying, oh, football's imperfect.

[00:21:30]Yeah, yeah, it might be imperfect. But just because something's imperfect, doesn't mean you should stop chasing perfection.

[00:21:34]>> No, unless it's better for it imperfection.

[00:21:37]>> It's not because you get so many unfair decisions without V than you get with V.

[00:21:43]Can you saying that's not true? We had a lot of we had a lot of bad moments preva a lot of bad moment being in the right position. If >> someone could just if how many times if you ref if you could just look at the telly I'm on I'm literally on Sky Sports I'm watching the game right now coming to my house but they are doing that now still getting things wrong and people and it's also I agree I think it just needs it's the application of it the theory of it and what it is should work and it should for me I'm still at home going how is this taking 5 minutes the game. You jump up, you jump up. Well done. Well done, Jason. So, I agree, >> mate. I agree.

[00:22:19]>> So, you know what is >> um >> Go on, mate.

[00:22:23]>> I didn't really want to get up to be honest with you, but I just wanted to >> cuz he's got bad knees. But I wanted >> 34 said something there and he said, uh the refs are >> relying on it too much. And I can relate to that because >> have you ever parked without your parking sensors?

[00:22:40]>> I literally without parking sensors. So you probably Oh, you've changed. You don't even know.

[00:22:46]I used to be like that. I used to be like that. So I understand once you get used to something like the refs are getting used to having someone four people.

[00:22:52]>> It's exactly like the Parkinson. So I just wanted to apologize to the refs.

[00:22:56]You know what I mean? Because it's not easy for them. It's never been easy. Now they're they're double expected to get it right. You know what I mean?

[00:23:05]>> Just like in the players don't want to give it away. the Mavericks we spoke about refs don't want to get a decision when they've got >> also the players make it so much harder for refs now with with the A they sell absolutely everything but that goes back to my issue of the referees are awful >> thing cuz I do agree that I think the referees are to blame for a lot of the decisions but one issue I have with V actually which for some reason it's not a rule is that they can't check double yellows like you can check a straight red >> but that is changing that is changing that is amazing >> that's still not been implemented >> you're right it changes that world cup >> yeah that that's super important so if they have changed that that's like there are still rules around that do need >> mod they're doing they're even doing corners >> yeah which by the way that takes the amount of times you see a blatant goal kicker they've given a corner can't they just go oh yeah by >> it shouldn't take longer you say the referees are awful yeah we don't this has just made their job harder it's the hardest job to do in football >> I agree Millions and millions of pounds are if you watch the ref cams they get put out and you watch it you're like what you've done is you away the ability for them to go no that's a red card they now have to go and triple guess it four of them have to make decision they need to be right players who stink the gaff out week after week 100 grand a week so what if a ref gets two things wrong so what get over it go down the pan Oh, we're so done by we got one decision. Get over it.

[00:24:40]>> Do you know what as well? It's people when you say you're anti-VR, people think that it's being anti- techn. It's not anti-technology. Goal line tech absolutely perfect.

[00:24:49]>> This not offside check. I think clear the rule up makes clear but fine. It's the sub. It's it's if if there's a 50/50 challenge, you say foul, I say no foul.

[00:25:00]what the ref on the pitch says is that matters. All right. What you said about the Dio one the other week, I reckon we'd all disagree on that.

[00:25:07]>> Yeah.

[00:25:07]>> Yeah. Subjectively would agree that was a fair.

[00:25:13]>> Let's end on.

[00:25:15]>> Let's end on one of the people that started it. Lewis, you said earlier you were full V. What are you now?

[00:25:19]>> Uh, one V out.

[00:25:22]Brilliant. Welcome to the brilliant.

[00:25:24]Welcome to Our big one, club glory over international glory. Who wants to come up? I'm going >> John. Bring it on.

[00:25:46]>> I think I think I think John is the only fan here that's for sports club that's never won a trophy before.

[00:25:53]Thanks for that.

[00:25:56]>> Club glory over international glory.

[00:25:58]What your thoughts? Full.

[00:25:59]>> You've landed my main point. I mean, it's different. It's different. As a Chelsea fan, if you take the FA Cup over the World Cup, would you do it?

[00:26:05]>> Yeah, I'll probably take the World Cup over the FA Cup. The World Cup 140 years my clubs existed. I think we're the biggest club in the world to never win a trophy.

[00:26:16]>> Yeah.

[00:26:18]probably.

[00:26:19]>> So I can recognize like the pandemonium that would come with England winning a major tournament, but for me it's different. So for for a lot of you guys who are Oh, >> you're not an England fan.

[00:26:27]>> Massive England fan. So So you are still you getting something from England winning the World Cup?

[00:26:33]>> Alive when either of them have won a trophy. That's true. Like so it doesn't really matter. Like for you, you when you've been alive, you ain't seen nothing.

[00:26:42]>> So So did you win the championship? Have you seen Harry Wilson this season? It's crazy. It's just under.

[00:26:50]>> So for you, >> would you not rather see like the whole like nation unite rather than just Fulham?

[00:26:59]>> No.

[00:27:00]>> You were not.

[00:27:02]>> But why not? Why not? Why not?

[00:27:04]>> Because like Fulham to me is everything.

[00:27:06]I go every I' go all the time.

[00:27:08]>> Oh, that's good.

[00:27:09]>> And to experience that with even just my little nucleus of friends, that would be amazing. Yeah. So, would you So, would you would you take the League Cup over England winning the World Cup? Not the Premier, you take respect.

[00:27:28]>> You know, can I can I grab Can I grab Ollie as a new member of a trophy winning team?

[00:27:38]>> The ones that win trophies. Don't understand. If those don't know what happened for Pal.

[00:27:44]>> They did. They won the FA Cup.

[00:27:47]>> Obviously now in a position where you've won the trophy for you this statement of club glory over international glory.

[00:27:54]>> Whereas where do you sit? I' I've always sat on the fence on it a bit because >> it's different. Like club glory is so personal. Like the when we won the cup, I got so many like nice messages from people who have not heard from from like years being like, "Mate, like you must be buzzing." And it feels so special.

[00:28:11]But I do think it's not the same like collective experience necessarily because I celebrate that with like my friends and family who I go to with it was great, but like I see my friends next, they don't give a [ __ ] >> Yeah.

[00:28:22]>> Like fact, they're probably quite annoyed that I'm so happy about it.

[00:28:25]Whereas international, I don't know.

[00:28:27]Like >> there are levels to it.

[00:28:28]>> What were you saying pre-winning the world? Pre-winning the FA Cup. I were you saying the same was probably more international.

[00:28:35]>> Oh, >> but I don't I don't see a world like I love like love watching England and us winning the World Cup would be insane, but I don't think it would beat Palace winning the FA Cup, but that is because it was a one-off.

[00:28:46]>> Like I think I think Palace winning the FA Cup would mean more to me or did mean more to me than England winning the World Cup.

[00:28:58]But that's but that's because I've never seen us win anything and like and it would go Palace FA Cup, England World Cup, everything else.

[00:29:06]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:10]>> Prem after winning the World Cup be above it.

[00:29:14]>> You're not going to win. You support a team in the championship.

[00:29:17]>> Yeah. And match going local fans, it does mean more to us, more of a community. It might means way I'd rather Alvin win a throw in than England.

[00:29:28]It's all right. It's all right. These big clubs would win everything going.

[00:29:31]Oh, yeah. You take a league cup over an F over the World Cup. Of course we would. But after that, yes, I agree. I'd 100% rather the way the way the country unites, I think it's a beautiful thing.

[00:29:42]And if Albian did ever win, which we probably won't in my lifetime, ever win any sort of trophy, then yeah, it be my dad was in tears when we won the championship at QPR. He just wanted to see him win the league in his lifetime.

[00:29:52]Like it weren't the Premier League, but it's the league to him. It's still the old first division trophy to him so it means more to but in terms of like >> England I think in my lifetime England will win something >> 100% I would take I would take but I don't think >> but if you want I'm taking Albian >> likely thing that's interesting but then also at the same time I do agree the country is the best place in the world anything since 1960 women >> if you in the Premier League would you change your opinion then If win the Premier League and you had more chances already.

[00:30:31]>> Yeah, 100%. If won an FA Cup, I'd say England.

[00:30:36]>> I completely understand your guys point of view. It's boring for you to win a League Cup.

[00:30:40]>> I would have said it before the takeover though. I I would have said that cuz England England haven't won anything for so long. It's not like we're Brazil fans or France fans. Completely different.

[00:30:49]>> We have I do feel like we have seen I know technically and it's probably because I'm an Albia fan in my opinion.

[00:30:54]And I have seen kind of success for England getting to finals, getting semiinal.

[00:30:58]>> I think that is success.

[00:31:00]It is success when you win.

[00:31:06]>> Do you remember what it was like before it made you feel and I'll never forget the summer of 2018. The way this is why South the way he made made me feel as a manager whe his tactics all that rubbish don't care. Get into that get into that semi-final. get into that final against Spain, the run against when we should have beat France in my opinion. The run in the Euros, they're some of the best summers of my life. Just because we we technically didn't do that doesn't change it for me.

[00:31:36]>> We're a big country in football. Come on, you jump in. You jump in >> again. West Ham fan, you saw you your team win European silverware, >> mate. So, I'll touch on that a little bit cuz this is more about the international. In fact, I'll go on what he said. Oh, some of the greatest summers of my life have come in England, let alone doing well.

[00:31:56]>> You were there for Italian like the '9s.

[00:31:58]>> Calm down.

[00:32:02]>> 96 HR.

[00:32:12]>> And my point is you've experienced it like kind of before then in the middle and the after.

[00:32:16]>> I want to say something important here.

[00:32:18]As a young black boy growing up in Enfield during the 90s, it was a massive divide. It was crazy. I'm getting chased and called names every day, right?

[00:32:27]>> But when England was in a tournament, >> I could go to walk past the pubs. I could do anything because that's everyone as a nation >> came together. So for me, my happiest moments during bad times came when England was playing.

[00:32:41]>> But then you fast forward and see my club that's not one nothing um win a trophy.

[00:32:48]One of my happiest days of my life seeing Bowen go through, scored a goal.

[00:32:51]It was great. But >> were you there in 1980 when they won the FA Cup against Arsenal?

[00:32:56]>> Just no.

[00:32:58]>> Um, so I'm I'm I'm made that joke to you, by the way.

[00:33:07]>> I see the greatest coming, Ros.

[00:33:10]Yeah. Um, but bro, honestly, um, as I say, just just touching on what he said, my best summer, my best summers was when England. Um >> if we if we imagine like so you take that happiness of what you felt what you said one of your best days of West Ham.

[00:33:22]You take that happiness and then imagine now England have just lifted Harry Kate.

[00:33:28]Yeah. Harry hurricane Kane's lifted the World Cup.

[00:33:30]>> We've been close like you said we've been close. Southgate has done well. I know Wars don't like Southgate which is it's mental that he's managed to get a nation that was always fighting within to make them play together and nearly get us there. Right. So our rating for that. Um, but if you took my happiest moment, which actually happened to me thinking, will Harry pick it up? What would be more important if I go back to when Liga 72 was at the um good whoever it was? Um, when when we was there celebrating, bears are going, everyone getting bear in my eye like and that was just to score a goal in the final.

[00:34:11]>> If we would have won, that's what I'm saying. God is going to take over. Do >> you know you know I I think the the club versus country debate is an interesting one. And I think people generally think that if you support a bigger club or a successful club that you don't necessarily have the passion for following England.

[00:34:31]>> That isn't the case. I don't from my experience I know a lot of Chelsea fans have follow England home in a way. I've done I don't know every tournament since 06 apart from Russia I think. So I I am sort of an example of that. I will always go club over country. Chelsea is more my priority. I want Chelsea to win.

[00:34:51]>> But I don't think that I don't think that means I don't want England or don't support England. It's just Chelsea >> despite all your success as a Chelsea fan.

[00:34:58]>> You've seen people like I'm not going to lie, you're a bit greedy.

[00:35:02]>> Yeah, I was going to say that.

[00:35:04]>> By the way, I don't even Club World Cup doesn't even really count, but you got that as well.

[00:35:08]>> I think I think most people are club over country. I think I think it's a kind of the natural >> because that's just because obviously we follow our clubs home. It's every week it's constant. International is every few months and then the tournaments every what two years. So that naturally you're going to care more about that thing that you grew up with. I've always been Albian mad but I'm also England mad.

[00:35:29]>> But if I offered you if I offered you Chelsea Cup >> Yeah.

[00:35:33]>> England World Cup.

[00:35:34]>> Oh Chelsea League Cup obviously. But what trophies you like or you would take if if you're offering Chelsea to win the League Cup or England to win a World Of course. And of course it's not.

[00:35:42]>> What about if Chelsea to win the third Champions League or England?

[00:35:44]>> It's tricky. I think I choose Chelsea 20.

[00:35:49]>> I want that to be seen as a reflection on England hatred. I don't like being to tournaments with you. You I know you love England. Really interesting. You still exto day like we discuss this every minute every day. I focus more and I care more about what my under 21s do than watching England play in a friendly >> George.

[00:36:16]My point is more that like >> I am so so invested in what Spurs do going home and away week and week out.

[00:36:22]I'm focusing I'm scrolling looking for news on absolutely everything. I'm not caring about what like the under 20 holding on to that Europa League last year against you guys by the way that I can I can still feel that now.

[00:36:35]And whilst I agree if England win the World Cup that moment there will probably be one of the best things ever that feeling in my opinion I don't think will last as long as me saying like seeing Spurs win a Premier League or Champion will last long because last for like I would last for years not stop the Premier League and Champions League this season. And you're telling me that feeling of winning both of those >> is going to last a short amount of time than England winning the World Cup.

[00:37:06]>> I genuinely I think so. I actually think so.

[00:37:09]>> I hold on 25 years.

[00:37:20]You jump up. You jump up. Well done.

[00:37:23]>> That's what I think. No, but I think the the genuine just the night out after we win the World Cup in like so I was I was in obviously I was in Wembley. I was literally like Wembley way when during the Euros and I could just feel how the city was about to erupt even if we just won the Euros. We're talking the World Cup now. Something that everybody watch the entire country is watching all together. Once we win it, right, if we were to win it at that time from London to Liverpool to commentary to everyone is outside. I think just that night, I would just never ever ever forget unless I'm too >> I don't know. I reckon you might forget it.

[00:38:02]>> You lot you lot of made a point. Right.

[00:38:04]So, what would you prefer? Um your club, the home club or the international?

[00:38:09]Right. Now I can talk from experience. I have an English girlfriend and I also have a Colombian girlfriend as well. And I tell you um my my English I focus a lot more >> Luca >> someone who's got maybe different ones. Where would you where do you sit where do you firstly where do you sit generally anyway? Do you are you kind of 50/50? What is it with Italy?

[00:38:41]>> Well, no. With Italy and England, it's always been Italy cuz my parents are Italian. I grew up >> parents are Italian.

[00:38:47]>> I I was born in London, right? But both my parents are Italian and I've always watched football with my dad throughout my whole life. So, he's a Juventus fan.

[00:38:52]That's why I'm a Juventus fan. I've always watched Italy with my pretty Italy. But in 2018, for example, I wanted England to win it. Italy weren't there. We weren't there. I'll be honest.

[00:39:01]We weren't there. Like I I I have nothing against England, right? But it's always been Italy because of my dad. But in terms of like Juventus or Italy, I always pick Juventus like 100%.

[00:39:11]>> It's interesting the debate, right?

[00:39:13]Because we've all done it from an English perspective of English clubs.

[00:39:15]From your understanding of Italy in Italian culture, would it be the same from what you're hearing?

[00:39:21]>> I've spoken to loads of Italians about this and I >> So if you support Napoli, you prefer Napoli to win rather than Italy. If you support Roma, >> Napoli is different because like >> they're so it's like almost it's a bit different, right?

[00:39:32]>> Italy also won the Euros recently the World Cup. Not millions. For example, my friend's a Roma fan. He would rather Italy win the World Cup or even a Euros than Rome win the Champions League. But I would much rather see Juventus win the Champions League. That's what I've been >> miss two trophies in your lifime.

[00:39:46]>> The World Cup, I don't remember. I was too young, but I was I was two, but with the Euros in 2021. I remember that. It was a great feeling, but >> it was better when Juventus won a league title. Like for me, the next time we win the league, I know this has sounded so because we haven't won it in six years, that will mean more than the Euros, if that makes sense.

[00:40:04]>> Yeah. But he's in that you're not in cuz you're not in Italy. Maybe that you don't have the collective experience.

[00:40:09]>> Yeah. You don't have that experience.

[00:40:10]That's like everyone everyone being outside or going down to the pub and all the You know what I'm saying? It's like you go down to the pub and it's just English people. It was all Italian people.

[00:40:30]>> Even after we won the Euros like when I went I remember going into school the next day with my England fan my Italy flag everything my friends cuz it was funny. No, but like you're right. I don't live in Italy. Therefore, I don't get the full sort of parade. But at the same time, I just think maybe with Italians in general, I think the average Italian is probably more patriotic to the nation than their club. But like my dad has always been club over country. And also from like Juventus point of view, Juventus fans have always felt like the federation of Italian football has always been against Juventus anyway. So there's always less of a love towards >> that's the truth. It has been >> because you cheated.

[00:41:17]>> My lawyer is not I'll keep breaking the lawn.

[00:41:23]>> Okay. Well, there we have it guys at home. Let us know what side are you for club glory over international glory.

[00:41:30]Right. There we have it. That is opinion under review wrapped again. Boy, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for watching. If you have enjoyed, like the video, subscribe, leave a comment on what you thought about all the opinions that are under review. We'll see you guys very, very soon.