Seminar 1.1: What does the book of Job teach us about suffering? | Eric Ortlund

[00:00:00]Let's go [music] in the power of the Lord.

[00:00:05]Bring the tribe and tongue.

[00:00:10]Let us go for the honor of our God.

[00:00:16]Let us go for the glory of the son.

[00:00:44]Great [singing] thy faithful God.

[00:00:53]There is no Shadow turn with the thy compassions they Thou forever will thy faithfulness.

[00:01:26]Praise thy faithfulness [singing] by morning.

[00:01:40]All I have thy handid is th The moon I will in thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

[00:02:37]Great is thy faithfulness.

[00:02:42]Praise is thy faithfulness morning by morning I see thy faithfulness Lord Glorren [singing] and bright hope for tomorrow.

[00:03:44]Bless 10,000.

[00:03:53]Great thy faithfulness.

[00:03:58]Praise is thy faithfulness morning by morning I see all great thy faithfulness.

[00:04:58]Great, oh God, my father.

[00:05:06]There is no shadow turn with [music] thee.

[00:05:14]Thou changest not as has been forever.

[00:05:30]Great is thy faithfulness.

[00:05:34]Great is thy faithful born by morning I see.

[00:05:46]All I have thy handid.

[00:05:53]Great is thy faithfulness to me.

[00:06:07]Summer and spring and harvest.

[00:06:17]Starscape [music] in witness to thy great faithful mercy and love.

[00:06:39]Great is [music and singing] thy faithfulness.

[00:06:44]Great is thy faithfulness.

[00:06:48]Morning by morning.

[00:06:52]Mercies I see.

[00:06:56]All I have [music] is thy faithfulness to me.

[00:07:21]and a peace that thar preser and bright hope for tomorrow.

[00:07:43]Blessings with 10,000.

[00:07:51]Great [singing and music] is thy faithfulness.

[00:07:55]Great is thy faithfulness.

[00:07:59]Morning by morning I [music] see.

[00:08:08]For I have [music] thy handided.

[00:08:16]Great is thy faithfulness for us.

[00:08:24]Great [music] is thy faithfulness.

[00:08:28]Great thy faithful morning by morning.

[00:08:38]I see.

[00:08:41]All I have is thy faithfulness to me.

[00:09:03]>> [applause] >> We long for the day when you Come in glory. Riding on the clouds. You will appear.

[00:09:38]And this earth full of pain. We'll see.

[00:09:44]War and disease shall disappear.

[00:09:50]This is our return.

[00:10:00]This is our future with Jesus forever.

[00:10:05]Death is no more. You'll make all things new.

[00:10:30]In the city of God, [singing] sing anthem of your grace and the church will be glad. We'll rejoice forever.

[00:10:46]Your kingdom [singing] will [music] fade away. Hallelujah.

[00:10:52]This is our reigning forever. [music] You'll return and make all things new.

[00:11:02]This is our future with Jesus forever.

[00:11:07]Death is no more. You'll make all things new life.

[00:11:20][music and singing] Our cries there'll be no tears, no pain.

[00:11:27]We will never die before we stand.

[00:11:34]There'll be new joy, new life. The world as it should be. All longing [music and singing] sisfied seeing you are Christ. There'll be no tears, no pain. We will never die before the throne [music] will stand the lamb.

[00:11:59]Thank you.

[00:12:07]This is our [music] return and make all things new.

[00:12:17]This is our [music] future with Jesus forever.

[00:12:22]Where death is no more. You'll make all things new.

[00:12:27]And this is our [music] reigning forever.

[00:12:33]You'll return [music] and make all things new.

[00:12:38]This is our future with Jesus forever. [music] You'll make all things [singing] new.

[00:13:08]Oh, for a thousand [singing] tongs to sing my redeemer's praise.

[00:13:20]My great [singing and music] redeemer praise, the glories of my God and king.

[00:13:33]The triumphs of his grace.

[00:13:37]The [music] triumphs of his gra.

[00:13:42]The triumps of his grace. The tri of his grace.

[00:13:56]He breaks the power of sin.

[00:14:03]He [music and singing] sets the prison free.

[00:14:07]He sets the prison free.

[00:14:14]His blood can make the clean.

[00:14:21]His blood for me. [singing and music] His blood for me.

[00:14:29]His blood for me. His blood for me.

[00:14:40]Praise you.

[00:14:51]Your lucen tonges employ your loose tong.

[00:15:02]You might behold your savior come and leave you lame for joy.

[00:15:13]I'll leave you lame for joy. [music] You lame for joy. Let me joy.

[00:15:38]This is our prayer.

[00:15:40]My gracious master and my God, assist [music] me to procla to proclaim to spread through all the honors of your [singing and music] name.

[00:16:10]The honors of your name.

[00:16:14]The honors of your name. The honors of the Amen.

[00:16:33]>> That final verse again. My gracious master. My gracious master and my God.

[00:16:44]Assist me to proclaim.

[00:16:48]Assist me to grow the spread through all the earth.

[00:17:02]The of your the name.

[00:17:40]What is our hope?

[00:17:43]life and death.

[00:17:45]Christ alone.

[00:17:48]Christ alone.

[00:17:50]What is our only confidence that our souls to him belong? Who holds our days within his hand? What comes apart from his command and what will keep us to the end. The love of Christ in which we stand and oh single our hope springs eternal.

[00:18:31]Oh, sing hallelu and we confess Christ our hope in life and death soul.

[00:18:56]God is good. God [music] is good. There is his grace and goodness known in our great redeemer blood. Who holds [music] our faith when fears arise. Who stands above [music] the stormy tri? Who sends the waves that bring us [music] night to the shore the rock of Christ and all single hope springs eternal.

[00:19:42]Oh, single [music and singing] now and we confess Christ our hope in life and death.

[00:20:11]to the grave. What will we sing?

[00:20:16]Christ he lives.

[00:20:18]Christ he lives. And what reward will heaven bring?

[00:20:26]Everlasting [music] life with him. Then we will rise to meet the Lord and sin and death will be destroyed.

[00:20:40]We will feast in endless joy when Christ is ours forever more.

[00:20:52]Oh sing hallelu.

[00:21:02]Oh, sing hallelu [music] [singing] and we confess Christ our hope in life and death single our hope springs eternal. [music] Oh, sing hallelujah.

[00:21:31][music] Now and we confess Christ our hope in life and death. Yes.

[00:21:39]Now [music and singing] and we confess Christ our hope in life and death.

[00:22:28]I cross my mind to where Jesus died for me.

[00:22:42]I see his words, his hands, his [music] feet.

[00:22:48]Myior that tree, week one of Kzich convention this year.

[00:23:09]If you are here to hear God's word from Eric Ortland as he speaks to us this week from the book of Job on the topic of suffering, you are in the right place. Thank you for choosing to be here at this time on this topic.

[00:23:23]Our mission here at Kzich Ministries, where I work, is to refresh you, God's people, to refresh us with joy in Christ Jesus. And perhaps for a brief moment, suffering does not feel a natural bedfellow or product of suffering, joy and suffering. But actually, as we'll hear from Eric this week, and if you read his book, we will see that suffering can and should draw us to repentance. It can and should draw us to spiritual maturity. And it can and it should bring us to a heightened expectation of God's glory and of his joy. That's what we're here to learn and to hear about this week.

[00:24:04]Let me pray.

[00:24:13]Father, draw our spirits to you. Draw our hearts, soft hearts to your word to us.

[00:24:21]And would you draw others to see the effect of this word, this teaching on suffering, on suffering and its product, to see its effect on us such that they would be drawn to you to see you to put their trust in you in your wonderful, wonderful name. Amen.

[00:24:45][snorts] >> Good morning everyone.

[00:24:53]I'm just going to be honest and say I don't quite know how to start this seminar and I speak on the book of Joe frequently and every time I do I'm kind of surprised that anyone shows up at all. Why not like all the seminar topics this week are so great? Why is anyone here? Or why not like study a book like Ruth? Right? All the bad stuff happens at the beginning and then it just gets better and better and better for the characters, right? Why turn to Job? Job is easily, in my opinion, the most difficult book in the Old Testament. And in multiple ways, it's just difficult to understand. Sometimes, more than once, the characters are arguing with each other, and I feel like saying, "Can you say that again? I don't think I quite got what you were saying." The book of Job is tiring to read. Am I the only person? I get to the end of it, and it's like, okay, on to something else, you know? And the book of Job is morally difficult. It's harrowing to read. It's not comfortable.

[00:25:52]So why talk about this book? That I anytime I speak in public, I feel nervous. I feel especially overmatched when it comes to the book of Job. And we're going to have time for questions at the end of this. Every seminar we have, we'll have time for questions.

[00:26:08]I will field any question that you have the best I can. You just need to give me a wide birth to say I don't know. Okay.

[00:26:17]Now on the one hand that's the difficulty of the book to answer my own question why bother with this book at all when it's so difficult I think the main well there's more than one reason but the first reason is its relevance the book of Job is not in the canon on the off chance that your life happens not to be going very well and then you can turn to it if you need it. The book of Job is in the canon just exactly because Job's experience is so common.

[00:26:45]When I first started teaching Old Testament, the Lord mercifully opened up a a a place for me to teach, I knew nothing about wis Old Testament wisdom literature and I had to teach it every year. So it was a crash course for me in Proverbs, Job, and Ecclesiastes. And it surprised me. It should not have surprised me, but it surprised me how often in class or I'd preach in church or do a weekend away on Job or something like that and people would come forward afterwards with this shocked look on their face saying like this th this is my story or this happened to my mother or my pastor or something.

[00:27:23]God put this book in his word just because Job's experience is so common.

[00:27:31]That's the first reason to be here and to consider this book. There are others, but we'll get to them. Now, here's my pledge to you, okay? Every seminar we have, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, this is the Old Testament's mo most difficult book, there's going to be something devotional to satisfy you, to strengthen you, to comfort you, for you to feed on when you leave. That's my pledge go in God's mercy with God helping me. And my pledge is, and I really sincerely believe this, there is a quality of joy at the end of the book of Job that is unmatched almost in scripture. There's so many joyful, triumphant places in scripture, especially at the end of the whole book.

[00:28:10]But when we get to God's speeches, when Yahweh speaks and describes his world, we're going to see on Friday, on the one hand, Yahweh is utterly realistic about everything that's wrong with his world. No one can accuse God of seeing the world through rosecolored glasses. And at the same time, he is utterly joyful in his world before the redemption of all things.

[00:28:36]There is one person who knows and sees and cares about everything horrible that's going to happen in the next 24 hours on this planet. And that same person is so happy the sun rose this morning before the redemption of all things. the book of Job unlike any other book in the canon. It explains things as far as I can tell that no other book in the canon does and it puts us believers in a position to be utterly sober, cleareyed and realistic about how messed up the world can be, but how hideously dark it can be and also utterly joyful and courageous at engaging with life as it is now before the redemption of all things.

[00:29:18]I'm gonna try to describe that quality of jo of joy on Friday and I will fail.

[00:29:24]I never quite do it justice. But that's why it's worth being here. Now, I'm going to be talking about a job like ordeal multiple times throughout this week. I want to be clear about what I mean by that right up front. We're going to read Job one in just a minute. Uh uh but as you can tell, I like long introductions. So, a job like ordeal has two characteristics. It's where God allows some pain that is first of all it's overwhelming and secondly it doesn't make any sense.

[00:29:54]So to think this through with me.

[00:29:56]Sometimes God allows terrible overwhelming pain but it makes sense why if you're going through chemotherapy for cancer you will feel wretched but it's easier to bear because you're getting better. Right?

[00:30:11]When David murders Uriah and a lot of other soldiers and steals Ba'ath Sheeba and the prophet Nathan comes and says the baby that you and Basha are going to have is going to die. In 2 Samuel 12, David is weeping on the floor and it says his servants come to pick him up off the floor and he can't even give get up off the floor. He is in so much pain he can't even stand up. When you're crying it's not that hard to stand up, you know, but David can't even get to his own two feet. But no one in that situation was thinking, "Oh, what a mystery. Why is David in so much pain?"

[00:30:42]It made perfect sense. That is not a joblike ordeal.

[00:30:48]The the pain doesn't make any sense. And second, it's overwhelming. All of us have pain in our lives or in our bodies that doesn't make we don't know why it's there, but it's not at a very high level. You stiff upper lip it and you keep going. Right? That's not a job-ike ordeal. A job like ordeal is when it the pain so dominates your consciousness.

[00:31:06]You show up to church on Sunday morning, someone says, "How are you?" And you burst into tears. That's what we're talking about in this book. And Job is the one place in all of scripture where God explains why he allows that.

[00:31:22]Believe it or not, friends, and we're going to take our time with this, believe it or not, there is a kind of suffering that God allows, and it has nothing to do with some sin or mistake on your part. And believe it or not, this is going to sound strange. It has nothing to do with you growing spiritually. And I'm going to explain what I mean by that. I think the book of Job answers four main questions. First, why does God allow these awful things that are so painful and don't make any sense to some of the best saints out there? Why does he allow that? Chapter one explains that. Second, what does God want from us in these jobike orals?

[00:31:59]We're going to answer that this morning.

[00:32:01]Third, how do we talk to the Jobes in our midst and in our churches? What do we say? Most of the book is taken up with the characters talking to each other.

[00:32:11]We're going to consider that tomorrow.

[00:32:13]And then fourth, what promises does God make? What promises did God make to Job in the Old Testament? What does he make to believers now that can comfort them in their suffering? That's going to be Friday on the Lord's Speeches. And friends, I'm going to I can't help but but but get ahead of myself. The last thing Job says in chapter 42, his last speech, now I know you can all do all things. Now my eye sees you. I see who you really are, Lord. The last thing he says is it gets translated, I repent in dust and ashes. Perfectly good translation. But Job is punning in the Hebrew. He's saying two things at once.

[00:32:50]Poetry often means more than it says more than one thing is going on at the same time. You could just as easily translate it as I am comforted about dust and ashes. And for reasons we'll get into Friday, we're going to see it is one of the most moving junctures in all of scripture.

[00:33:07]Job is when he says, "I am comforted."

[00:33:09]This is before anything has gotten better externally in his life. He is still covered in soores, still sitting on the ash heap. His 10 children are still dead. He's still alienated from his wife. He's still smarting under the accusation of his friends. And Job says, "I am comforted about everything I suffered and everything I am lost. I'm entirely at peace with it simply because of God.

[00:33:35]We're going to get there. Okay. So, this is going to be this is a tough book, but it is worth it." Could I read chapter one in Job?

[00:33:43]I'm reading from the ESV, so it might be slightly different from the NIV. Chapter one of Job.

[00:33:50]There was a man in the land of whose name was Job. And that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned from evil. There were born to him seven sons and three daughters. He he had 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yolk of oxen, and 500 female donkeys, and very many servants, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the east. His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. And when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send and consecrate them. And he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, "It might be my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And Job did this continually.

[00:34:33]Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the accuser also was among them. And the Lord said to Satan, "For where have you come?" And Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth and walking up and down on it." And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job that there's no one like him in the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns from evil?" And the Lord answered, uh, Satan answered the Lord and said, "Oh, really?

[00:35:04]Does Job fear God for no reason? Haven't you put a hedge around him and his house and all he has on every side? You've blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

[00:35:15]But stretch out your hand and touch all he has. He'll curse you to your face."

[00:35:21]And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him. Don't stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house. And there came a messenger to Job and said, "The oxmen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them. And the Savians fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword. I alone have escaped to tell you." And while he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them. And I alone have escaped to tell you." While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, 'The Chaldanss formed three groups and made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you. And while he was yet speaking, there came another and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house.

[00:36:16]And behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you."

[00:36:26]Then Job rose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped.

[00:36:37]And he said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb. Naked I shall return. The Lord gave the Lord has taken away.

[00:36:45]Blessed be the name of the Lord." In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrong. This is God's word. Okay. In the introduction, I just want to begin with verses 1 through 3. Verse one is an Old Testament way of saying Job is an awesome Christian. Know he's not literally a Christian because it's Old Testament, but that's what it's saying.

[00:37:06]That is Old Testament wisdom language.

[00:37:10]If this were the book of Proverbs, that's a way of saying Job gets an A++ in the book of Proverbs. It's a way of saying Job is a saint in complete armor.

[00:37:20]He's a mature believer. This does not mean Job is perfect or flawless or sinless or something like that. Job will later on in the books in chapter 31, he says, "When I sinned, I confessed it publicly. I didn't care what people thought of me." And more than once, he will say, "If there's some sin that caused all of this, I'm so happy to, you know, not play games with God, but confess it." It does mean he's a mature believer. There is no part of Job's life where sin is still the dominant pattern.

[00:37:48]Job still, if you read Job, he has a wonderful theology of grace and he knows he still needs God's grace, but he shows all the fruit of the spirit. Those passages like in Romans 5, suffering produces endurance. Endurance character and character hope. I think I got that connection right. Job is at the end of that chain, still needing God's grace, but grown up. Now, the there is I hope it's obvious to everyone. Nothing else in the book of Job will make sense unless we see the connection between verse one and verses 2 and three. We see Job's piety in verse one and verses 2 and three. It just has and there in the translation, but we should read that as as a result, Job had a whole bunch of stuff. There's an idea in the Bible, it takes a different form in both testaments, but it's there in both testaments that you reap what you sow.

[00:38:41]that as you're in a covenant relationship with God and you are faithful, not flawlessly but sincerely faithful in that covenant relationship, God is going to bless you. It's there in Deuteronomy where if Israel keeps covenant with God, they'll have big harvests and big families and they'll win every battle. It's definitely there in Proverbs. If the son receives the father's teaching and listens and obeys and lives it out, his life is going to be so blessed. He'll be wealthy. His kids will be blessed, everything. And it's there in the New Testament as well.

[00:39:10]In Galatians 6, Paul says, "Don't be deceived. Everyone reaps what they sow, whether by the flesh to corruption or by the spirit to eternal life." So, we should see a causal relationship between Job's piety in verse one and his blessing in verses 2 to three.

[00:39:27]This is this is a theme throughout the whole Bible. And this is God's way of saying to his heavenly children, I'm going to be so generous with you both in the next life and in this life as well.

[00:39:39]And if you love me and love your neighbor as yourself, I will bless you for it. I will absolutely make it worth your while. And friends, that's um that's not wrong or inappropriate for God to do. It's not selfish of any believer to want that. When you read how Job lived his life in chapter 29 when he describes his life before his ordeal, Job didn't just feed homeless people. He went looking for homeless people in his village to come home and feed. There were no orphans in Job's village. He had all kinds of foster kids in his home.

[00:40:12]It's hard to imagine what else Job could have done to live out his love for God and love for neighbor and for the widow and orphan. And it is right, it's appropriate that people like that are blessed by God. Does that make sense?

[00:40:25]Now the mo most of the rest of chapter 1 is going to detail Job losing verses 2 and three.

[00:40:33]And the question will be and Job's friends will assume well if Job lost the blessings of his integrity and his piety then it makes sense to infer that Job has lost his piety as well.

[00:40:47]That's what's at issue here. Job is just not just about suffering. It's about when it looks like God is angry with you and turned his back on you and betrayed you and you don't know why. You're thinking, I haven't given a reason to.

[00:40:59]Okay, so Job's amazing piety. God has blessed him as a result of that. Now, skip down to verse six. Job is the subject of a very unfortunate conversation in heaven that he doesn't know about and he never learns about the skill with which the book of Job has been written. I always feel slightly silly saying I think the Bible is like really impressive and intelligent. Like is that in doubt? You know, it's like me saying I think Beethoven is a good composer. Are any of you thinking, "Oh, I had no idea, but if Eric says so, then it must be true, right?" But with an just an economy of words, what the author accomplishes, we know something that none of the characters in the book know. And Job never learns about chapter 1. We're going to talk about why later on this week. If I forget, ask me about it. Okay? And that gives us a different perspective on what on everything else in the book. We listen to Job and the friends talk and we think we think about Job and the friends and we think, "I get why you're saying that, but you're wrong." And you don't know why. And you don't know that you don't know the the the way I Yeah, I could talk about how impressed I am with this.

[00:42:12]Anyway, okay. in verse six. Um, if you've read Revelation 4 and 5, you know that heaven, this not the only place in the Bible it's portrayed that way. Isaiah 6 is a good example. First Kings 22 is a good example. Heaven is portrayed as a divine throne room with God Almighty on his throne attended by his heavenly parliament. And God, that's in the background of verse six. God is administering his realm, receiving field reports from his what we would call his angels and then sending him out to do his will and to accomplish his will in all the world. So God is holding court.

[00:42:49]He receives a report from Gabriel. Good job Gabriel. I want you to go here and do this. Receives a report from Michael and so on. And it says the Satan was there. But it and it says the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them.

[00:43:04]And it's kind of like he's with them.

[00:43:06]but not of them. He's off to one side.

[00:43:09]Now, you may know the word Satan is not I mean, it's a name now, but it wasn't originally a name. It's actually a job title. That might sound strange, but the word Satan in Hebrew can be used in completely ordinary ways. In the Psalms, David, it just means to accuse. In the Psalms, David will pray for deliverance from human beings who are satoning him, who are accusing him.

[00:43:34]Now, we with the benefit of the New Testament know a lot more about this accuser figure than old covenant saints would. But old covenant saints still could have figured out there's a being bigger than human beings. He belongs in the supernatural category, but he's not bigger than God. He's not on the same level as God. He has to obey God. God says to him, you know, you can't touch Job yourself. You can just touch the stuff around him. And third, he's trying to mess up God's plans. He's a bad guy.

[00:44:03]He's an accuser. He accuses Job and it's completely false. Right? So, they could have told at least that with the benefit of the New Testament in Revelation 12 with the dragon and all of that, John makes a reference to Satan, that ancient serpent, the accuser of the saints.

[00:44:24]And when John identifies Satan with the serpent, he's clueing us in and helping us to read biblical imagery all the way back to the serpent in Genesis 3. Okay?

[00:44:35]And guys, quick quick preview, quick sidebar. We get people write on Job and they wonder Satan plays such an important role at the beginning and then he just leaves, you know, but you get to the end of the book of Job and God describes Leviathan and how he's going to kill Leviathan with a sword and is this great thrashing serpent-like monster in the sea. And for us readers, we can say, "Oh, we can connect make a connection that Job might not have been able to that I'm anticipating Friday.

[00:45:02]We'll get there." Th this is not an academic point.

[00:45:07]The word cosmology means your picture of the universe. And the Bible is complicating our cosmology in a really helpful way that is not merely academic.

[00:45:16]It's so helpful to read the Bible and remember it's written in a polytheistic environment where there are lots of gods. And if you read ancient Middle Eastern literature, there would be a head god, but be a lot of other gods who can sleep with each other and have kids.

[00:45:30]They can get in fights and kill each other. They need to eat or they'll die.

[00:45:35]The Old Testament is changing that picture to say there is one and only one supreme God and all the other divine beings are lowered and demoted to the status of created beings. So when it says sons of God that means angels but when it says sons of God what that's communicating is they're sons of God that is supernatural but sons in the sense of dependent on God not equal with him. Now that's important. In other words, the Bible's cosmology is God eternal at the top of all above the top of all reality, visible created reality with human beings and animals and you know and then the unseen realm with uh spiritual forces at work. But all those two categories belong in the creation category with an infinite distance between them and God. What I just said is not an not an academic point. The characters in the book will assume that Job's suffering is directly from God.

[00:46:36]God went, "Haha, zap dead children."

[00:46:39]And the Bible is saying it's more complicated than that. Job does not deny God's sovereignty in the slightest. It does not deny that God is morally responsible for everything that happens in this world. It does say there's a a sophisticated theology of divine providence here. We cannot immediately directly attribute every tragedy immediately to God's action. Sometimes that may be the case, but not always.

[00:47:03]That's a key mistake that the friends make and the Jobes in your churches when you talk to them, they may it's not at all like unlikely. They'll say, "Why did God do this to me?" And one of the ways Job is helpful to say, "Let God go is sovereign, but let's not assume God was directly immediately the cause of Does that make sense? Is that okay?"

[00:47:24]Okay. Um, the Lord asks the accuser, "Where have you come from?" And in verse 7, does the accuser sound like a teenager? You know, like, "Where were you last night?" Oh, nowhere. Just, you know, messing around. And then God himself, the accuser doesn't bring it up. God himself says, "Have you considered my servant Job?" And every time this happens, I just kind of want to go sh like leave well enough alone.

[00:47:50]Is there a hint here that God is providentially guiding Job's ordeal in his own way? Is that a hinted there? Now verse eight is really important for the whole book.

[00:48:03]I say this for that for this reason.

[00:48:05]When Job loses all the blessings for his obedience and his faithfulness to God, the friends come along and not knowing about this conversation between the accuser and Yahweh, they say, "Well, Job, if you lost all the blessings of your obedience, it makes sense to say you've lost your obedience. You've compromised integrity with God. This is God giving you another chance to repent and be restored. And if you just admit what it was you did wrong, then God will restore you. And God doesn't make any mistakes."

[00:48:33]And Job is going to say, "I agree that it really looks like God is angry with me, but I know I know I'm not perfect.

[00:48:41]I'm happy to confess some sin if if it's there, but I can't explain what happened to me in relation to some fault in me."

[00:48:47]And Job will say, "Only me and God were involved. I can't explain this in relation to me. God must not be the person I thought he was." Job's theology remains the same throughout. He only defaults on God's goodness. He still believes God is almighty and sovereign and so on. He doesn't see God as a good person. Both Job and the friends agree that God is angry. They disagree on whether God is right to be angry. The friends say yes. Job says no. And verse 8 is saying both Job and the friends are totally wrong. Can I I'm going to read verse 8 again. Can I ask everyone to look at verse one? God will repeat the characteristics from verse one, but he adds one thing. Can I ask everyone to see if you notice this? Okay. With verse one in mind, verse eight, the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job that there's no one like him on the earth? A blameless and upright man who fears God and turns from evil."

[00:49:39]Does anyone see what God added?

[00:49:42]There's no one like him in all the earth. Guys, if it could ever be said of me, and in God's wonderful mercy, one day it will be, "Eric is a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns from evil." Whoa, that's awesome. I would put that at the head of my CV when that is finally true of me. God adds to that there is no one like him in all the earth. And if you look that phrase up elsewhere in the Old Testament, occasionally it's used for human beings. I think um Josiah is described that way. I think Saul at one point is described that way. It's most often used for God himself. There is no God like you in all the earth. in Jeremiah 10, in Psalm 86, and Micah 7, if memory serves, that means that God uses a phrase in Hebrew that most often describes himself to describe Job.

[00:50:31]That means that God is, if I can put it this way, beaming with pride over Job.

[00:50:37]He couldn't be happier. This is God-giving Job an A+++.

[00:50:42]And this is so important because all the human characters will assume God is angry with Job. And the text is telling us it is not true at all.

[00:50:51]Friends, part of a job like ordeal.

[00:50:55]I don't know if we have time for this. I I'm not sure. There's an early interpretation of the book of Job called the Testament of Job was written before the New Testament. It's a fascinating It's thousands of years old. It's a fascinating commentary on Job because anytime the text says something slightly disturbing, it just completely solves it right away. Like in the Testament of Job, this ancient commentary, when Job's wife is complaining, Job says, "Don't worry, honey. It's fine." And they both have a vision of their dead children in the resurrection. And his wife says, "Oh, I trust God. It's all fine." The in the Testament of Job, it begins with Job tears down an idol that makes Satan mad.

[00:51:32]So, Satan is going to torment Job. And God comes to Job in a dream and says, "This is what's going to happen, but just hang on and I'll restore you in the end." And Job says, "Awesome God. I am so righteous and awesome. I'm gonna sail through this test. No problem.

[00:51:47]That completely that the testament of Job, that inner testamental book, that completely destroys the meaning of the book. One characteristic of a jobike ordeal is God allows you to fall into a situation where all the evidence of your senses is that God hates you. You look at your life and you say, "What concrete evidence do I have that God is my friend and God's on my side and you can't see anything?" And chapter 1:8 is saying above those dark storm clouds, the sun is still shining. God's heart toward you is not changed.

[00:52:20]He is still beaming with pride over you.

[00:52:22]And if I can put it this way, he's bragging about you to the devil. So that's crucial for the whole book. Now, we're going to spend almost the rest of my time just on verse 9. This is so profound. Does Job fear God for no reason? Oh boy. What is the devil saying? The devil is saying, Job says he loves you, but what the devil is saying, yeah, Job says that verse one is true, but all he really loves is verses two and three. He says he loves you, God, but he's just a gold digger. He's in it for the money. He likes the nice life.

[00:52:57]That's all he cares about. He actually secretly hates you and he's mouthing false pieties. In other words, Job the the devil says Job and God are colluding in a game of bribery and payoffs. God looks good. He gets a lot of worship.

[00:53:11]Job has a super nice charmed life. Take away the nice life and you'll see how Job really feels about you. When my um my daughter isn't here this week, so it's safe to I mean I would tell the story even if she was here, but it's safe to say because she isn't here. when she was two years old. I came home for uh lunch one day and my daughter Kate ran up to me and said, "Daddy, I want candy."

[00:53:34]I said, "Kate, I just got home. Do I get a hug or anything like that?" And she looked right at me and said, "No, daddy.

[00:53:40]I want candy."

[00:53:42]Like, "Are you deaf? Hello." Now, that was pretty selfish of her, but she was only two. So, I didn't want to give in, but you know, so I I I kind of like looked away and looked sad and, you know, and then I looked down at her and I'll never forget her looking up at me and the gears are turning in her 2-year-old brain and she and she walks up. She hugs the back of my knees, stands back and says, "Now give me candy."

[00:54:08]Now, even as a two-year-old, she was relating to me in a very sophisticated way. She wasn't interested in me. I was a means to an end. If she could have gotten candy some other way, she wouldn't have been interested in me.

[00:54:21]That's the point at issue in verse 9 and in the whole book of Job. Does Job love God for God's sake or does he just want the candy? Is he treating God like a business partner or a big Santa Claus?

[00:54:36]The point at issue in the book of Job is, is it possible to have a relationship with God for God's sake only with any other benefit being secondary and staying secondary? Or are are we just too selfish?

[00:54:53]Tom, this is why the book of Job makes me so nervous. Thomas Merin once said that if we love God for something less than himself, we run the risk of hating him if we don't get what we want.

[00:55:09]Now, friends, I hope you're nervous reading this. I don't benefit from my relationship with God in exactly the same way as an old covenant saint. I don't have the 3,000 camels or whatever, but I still benefit from being a Christian in ways other than and external to the forgiveness of my sins and the gift of eternal life. God called me to be an Old Testament professor. If you had told me I'd be doing that when I was 15, I would have said, "That is so lame. No way. I'm going to do something way cooler than that. And I can't believe I get to do this. I've been teaching Old Testament for 20 years. I feel like I'm just getting started."

[00:55:46]And friends, I could obviously couldn't do that if I wasn't a Christian. And if God's grace hadn't been operant in my life for many years before it started to occur to me that that's what God was calling me to. I love being an when it comes time for me to retire, they're going to have to drag me out of my office with my claws holding on. You know, I now being an Old Testament professor is a secondary blessing. It's a blessing that comes from being a Christian, but it has nothing to do with being a Christian itself. Right? When I was studying in Chicago, I had a dear friend who had macular degeneration in his eyes. He was legally blind. He could only read like this, you know. What if something goes wrong with my eyes? I go to the doctor and they say, "Eric, enjoy this year teaching because it's your last year."

[00:56:29]And I go to church the next Sunday and it's time to stand up and worship.

[00:56:35]Can you see why I'm nervous?

[00:56:37]when I stand up and worship God for God's sake because I'm united to his son by faith and I have him as my treasure forever.

[00:56:47]Or would it turned out would it turn out that I really loved being an Old Testament professor? Does Eric love God for no reason? You've blessed him.

[00:56:56]Just to make this really nerve-wracking, my dear wife, my best friend, who I can't believe is married to me, is here with us this week. I could not thank Thank you. Yeah, that's that's appropriate. Yeah, I could not have married my wife if I had not become a Christian and if God's grace had not been operant in my life for a long time before I met my wife. There's no way she could have married me. But there is a coming a time when I'm going to bury her or she's going to bury me. And if that happens sooner than I expect and I go to church the next Sunday, will it will I will it be that I actually loved God more than my wife? Will it turn out what I really liked was having a nice life and having a nice family? Is anyone else feeling nervous right now?

[00:57:40]Now, there's a sense in which at this point in Job chapter 1, God could rebuke Satan as he does in Zechariah 3 where the accuser is accusing um the high priest. I for I forget his name and God just says, "The Lord rebuke you."

[00:57:53]Instead, God allows an ordeal to unfold where Job will lose every secondary blessing where God will, as it were, give Job every earthly reason to give up on God. And I think we begin to see why God allows this. There's a sense in which God has to allow these temporary experiences of joblike orals of extreme and inexplicable suffering. doesn't make sense and it's way too way too overwhelming a level pain because it proves the reality of the relationship.

[00:58:23]Now friends, I want to be clear. You I'm not saying that you might suffer in exactly the same way Job does. Health gone, finances destroyed, all his family dead, all in one way. I'm not saying that, okay? I am saying we have no biblical reason to think that God will treat us any differently. And time after time I talk with people. I was um doing a thing on Jove in Boow Island, Alberta.

[00:58:49]Very nice people there. You have never heard of Bo Island, Alberta before. When you live there, you either farm or you do construction. Talking to the pastor there, there's a wonderful family in his church.

[00:59:01]The uh dad and mom, upstanding Christian family, four little kids. The dad goes to work. Halfway through the morning, has a massive heart attack. He's dead on arrival to the hospital.

[00:59:13]And those poor kids had to come home for lunch that day and learn the news that their dad was gone.

[00:59:18]And how many other alcoholic fathers were still alive? And why does God run the world that way? Well, we're starting to see why. God sometimes, and friends, let me interrupt myself. These job like ordeals are always temporary.

[00:59:34]We're going to see that in chapter 42.

[00:59:36]This is always temporary. We'll talk about more of that on Friday. But there is a sense in which God sometimes has to remove some secondary blessing without explaining to us why. To prove the reality of the relationship that we actually love God for his own sake.

[00:59:52]Friends, to treat a being of infinite worth as a means to some finite end is an insult to him.

[01:00:05]I don't know. Here's the best way I can say it. I must learn in this life to love God more than I love being an Old Testament professor. I'm going to be bored in heaven because I won't be an Old Testament professor in heaven because everyone will understand the text perfectly. I'm going to be out of work.

[01:00:23]That means, and I love my job. I love my job. That means I must imperfectly but in some real sense learn how to love God more or in the resurrection where God is all in all where I'm experiencing union with Christ to the fullest possible degree. If what I really loved was my job I'm going to be bored in eternity. I must much as I love my wife I must learn how to love God more because as precious as she will always be to me we won't be married in heaven. Marriage is a part of this world. If I can't learn to love God more than I love my spouse, I'm going to be bored in eternity. Does everyone see how the first question in the book of Job, why does God allow these joblike orals? Does everyone start to see the answer? God is training us for eternity.

[01:01:07]He is painting us into a corner and forcing us, if I can put it that way, into the only kind of relationship with him that will actually save us, where we love God for himself, not for some secondary reason. The only way Eric Orland will be happy in eternity is if I can imperfectly but in some real sense learn to love God for his own sake.

[01:01:29]Because that's what the resurrection and heaven is all going to be about. That the does I could hardly state how important this is. This is the one part in scripture where God explains and unfolds why he allows these things that don't make any sense and are so overwhelming. He's I I did a seminar, a Saturday morning thing on Job once and a man raised his hand and said in chapter one, "It sounds like you're just describing saving faith." And I said, "Yes, that's right. That's what saving faith is." But some affirmations cannot remain theoretical forever. It is a good and healthy practice when your life is going great and your family is safe to go to church, lift your hands, and worship and say, "Lord, I love you more." But some affirmations can't remain theoretical forever. And if God is going to save our souls at some moment, not in in a way identical to Job, but he's going to give us a really solid reason to give up on him, and he's going to empower us to go into church weeping and in sackcloth. Job is not a stoic. He does not suppress his grief, but to say, "Lord, I love you more than the thing I lost." And as you do that, and as God helps you to do that, you're going to receive the salvation of your soul. As you treat God as God, you're going to be able to relate to him as God and Lord in a way that you never could when your life was going super great.

[01:02:52]Here's an analogy, okay? There's some young men who will date young women, say that they love them, maybe they think they love their girlfriends, but who aren't willing to stand up in church and say, "For better or worse, for rich or for poorer, forsaking all others, I'm with you." And they might think they love their girlfriends, but they really love themselves. They're being selfish.

[01:03:11]They're not willing to commit.

[01:03:14]On the other hand, when a couple stands up in church and when I in 2001 in Chicago, when I said to my wife, "For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health," I was essentially saying, "I'm with you whether you make me happy or not." After we said those vows, and I'll never forget going up to the top of the church and holding my new wife's hand, I didn't feel internally any differently about my wife. I still loved her just the same, but the relationship was externally very different cuz we were married now. There was a new level of intimacy there. And friends, in the same way, oh Lord, help me to say this. In the same way, when you go through a job like ordeal, when you lose some secondary blessing and you don't know why, and in weep weeping and in sackcloth and ashes and maybe it takes you weeks, maybe it takes you years to get there.

[01:04:03]Job is so awesome and amazing. Boom.

[01:04:06]He's just the Lord has given the Lord has taken away. Blessed be his name anyway, right? Maybe it takes you longer. That's okay. But the Lord helps you to get to the point and say, "Lord, it's going to take more than that to get me to give up on you. I love you more than the thing you lost." You are going to be able when you treat God as God, you are going to be able to receive him as God and Lord in a way you never could when your life was going well. And you are going to experience the salvation of your soul.

[01:04:32]Job-like orals and job like losses are training for eternity. Does that make sense to everyone? This is this is the one place in scripture where God explains to us why he runs the universe this way.

[01:04:47]In allowing Joblike suffering, God is actually about saving our souls and delivering us into the only kind of relationship with God that'll make us happy in heaven. Now, part of what is so, and we will get to questions here, don't worry. Part of what is so profound about Job is it complicates how we think about suffering. It complicates our picture of the universe. We don't immediately attribute everything to God without denying his sovereignty and it complicates how we think about suffering. As far as I can tell for most evangelicals, there are two big explanations for suffering. Both of them are entirely valid and entirely biblical. The first is sin. Why is there pain in the world? Human sin. That's an entirely biblical answer. In Psalm 38, David says, "My wounds stink and fester because of my foolishness." He's hurting and it's his own fault. And sometimes that's why we suffer. Second biblical explanation is spiritual growth. We all know the beautiful passages in James 1 and in Romans 5 about how God allows pain to grow us up spiritually. And that is a valid biblical explanation. Does everyone see why neither of those applies to Job?

[01:05:54]They don't apply. First of all, not even even the accuser can find fault with Job. There is it's no sin in Job that caused this. If there was some fault in Job that could explain it, the accuser would have found it. The accuser has nothing bad to say. So, he just turns he sneakily turns Job's piety into the problem. There is no sin in Job's life that explains this. Chapter one makes that clear. Secondly, Job's suffering is not about spiritual growth. There are two reasons why. First, Job was already grown up spiritually.

[01:06:23]There's no one fruit of the spirit that he's lacking that some level of pain will give to him. Secondly, the terms of the ordeal are does Job love God for God and no other reason. If that means Job can't benefit from the ordeal in any way except knowing God better.

[01:06:41]So if Job grows up spiritually, the devil can always turn around and say, "Well, he doesn't love you. He loves like he's a better person now." Or something like that.

[01:06:49]There's a kind of suffering as you did nothing wrong.

[01:06:54]You you if you're a job right now or if you're talking to a job, it is so easy to feel like God betrayed me and he stabbed me in the back and I didn't give him a reason to. And chapter one is clarifying you. God will allow you to fall into a position where it look how it feels, but you did nothing wrong.

[01:07:15]And the book of Job is the the book of Job is saying God is not expecting you to be a better Christian by the end of this.

[01:07:26]There's so much more we could say about this chapter. Does everyone see? First of all, Job knows he four times messengers come to him domino like he loses everything. Right? Job knows this is not a coincidence. Fire from heaven falls. He knows God is involved but he doesn't know how. and he doesn't know about the accuser. So, he's going to understandably but wrongly assume God was directly behind this even though God is sovereign over it. That's not true.

[01:07:54]But Job still passes the first test beautifully. Naked I came, naked all return. I was going to lose all that anyway. God gave to me. Do you see the grace there? That was all a gift. It was not payment for services rendered. All the blessings are for obedience were a gift. So it's absolutely fine for God to take away as well. Blessed be his name anyway. Job will bless God when God gives. He will bless God when God takes away. He clearly passes the devil's test.

[01:08:26]Okay, this has been an awful lot. We've got about 15 minutes left. I want to say three things real clearly, very quickly.

[01:08:34]First of all, is this going to be three or four? I'm not sure. We maybe five. Who knows? [laughter] We understand why God allows these times. He is not angry with you. He's not trying to teach you a lesson. He is proving the reality of your faith and that you have saving faith because sometimes it has to be proved. That's the first big thing. Secondly, what does God want from us in these jobike ordeals? Does everyone see all God wants from you is to stay a Christian? That's it.

[01:09:07]These times are nightmarish, but God sets the bar really low. He just says, "Don't curse me. Don't give up on me and walk away. Just stay a Christian. That's it." You are allowed, if you go through a job like ordeal, you are allowed to weep. You are allowed to say some very unfortunate things about God, things that you are heartily ashamed of later, and God will be totally chilled out and relaxed with you. We're going to see that in chapter 38. All God wants you to do is to stay a Christian. And whenever I teach this, someone asks, "Okay, Eric, you're distinguishing jobike suffering from suffering for spiritual growth. But can't I grow spiritually in a job-like ordeal? Can't I do both?" And the answer is, "Of course, yes. Of course." But I want everyone to know if you're going through a job like ordeal, God is not looking at you saying, "You better be a better Christian by the end of this."

[01:09:51]He's not saying that. He's looking at you saying, "Just don't give up on me.

[01:09:56]That's it." And when you do that, you shame the devil.

[01:10:02]and [clears throat] you prove that God is actually worth loving for his own sake. That's okay. Why does God let this happen? What does he want from us? Just stay a Christian. Third, remember the different reasons for suffering. If you're talking to a friend, some tragedy has happened. So, you're talking with them and you say, "Is there some did something go wrong inside? Did you compromise with God in some way?" And they say, I mean, if they say, "Yeah, I had an affair." Then you know what to say. But if they say, "I'm not perfect, but no, I didn't. I wasn't leading a double life. Then you say, "Okay, is the Lord trying to teach you something?" And they say, "If he is, I have no idea what it is." Then that's a a signal to turn to the book of Job. Suffering that doesn't make sense and that doesn't seem to produce anything good. There's a biblical category of suffering that suffering that has nothing to do with spiritual growth and it's not your fault. Does that make sense? One last thing I promise. Do you notice how the devil promised or predicted that Job would curse God to his face, but it ends with Job saying, "Blessed be the name of the Lord." Curse and blessing are diametric opposites in the Bible, in the Old Testament. Does everyone see exactly the opposite of what the devil predicted actually happened? Does everyone see the devil's prediction was that Job's suffering would break his relationship with God, get him to walk away from God so that Job could belong to the devil.

[01:11:26]And the exact opposite happened.

[01:11:28]Instead, Job went deeper into worship because of his suffering. Does everyone see that? That means when you go through your worst nightmare, God is able to so guide that so that the thing that should break your faith actually deepens it. So the thing that the thing that should break your relationship with God actually drives you deeper into blessing God. Does everyone see if that's true?

[01:11:54]That means that you and I are are absolutely ultimately eternally safe.

[01:12:03]That means that my worst our worst nightmare serves God's purposes for us, not the devil's. And if that's true, if my worst nightmare serves God's purposes for me, it serves me, too.

[01:12:17]You all you all have been listening so patiently. I appreciate that. Can we take two minutes maybe turn to the person next to you and just say one thing that has really landed or stuck with you or struck you and then we'll have just a couple minutes for questions and I will be available afterwards as well. Just two minutes and then there are going to be some roving microphones where people can ask questions if they want to go.

[01:13:22]Heat.

[01:13:40]Heat.

[01:13:57]Lord have mercy.

[01:13:59]Lord have mercy.

[01:14:25]friends. I'm so sorry.

[01:14:27]I know that's not nearly enough time.

[01:14:31]I will be available afterwards if I'll be I'll I'll be over there somewhere if anyone wants to talk to me. I'm so happy to. But would anyone like to ask questions? Think out loud. There are microphones on either side of the aisles. Would anyone like to? Right at the front here.

[01:14:46]Sorry. We'll we'll get to you. Okay.

[01:14:56]>> Hello.

[01:14:57]>> Hi there.

[01:14:58]>> Hello. Would it make any difference to your interpretation of the story if the story didn't actually happen?

[01:15:04]>> Yeah. Thank you. Good question. Is Job a parable? I think it would for a couple of reasons. Parables tend to be much more vague. It it won't say there was a name of Job, a man with the name of Job from the land of when Nathan tells a parable to David in 2 Samuel 12. All the characters are anonymous. I get the and Job is mentioned elsewhere in the Old Testament as a real historical person.

[01:15:29]So I get the sense that that an inspired Israelite author is writing about a famous saint who lived before him briefly and I'm happy to talk about that more if people want to but I think this is real history >> right right at the front.

[01:15:44]>> Thank we've gone into a bit of discussion about uh prosperity gospel.

[01:15:48]>> Oh yeah >> and and I just wonder if you might want to comment on how this interacts with that.

[01:15:52]>> Thank you. Um it's very important to make this distinction in the Old Testament. The covenant relationship is such that it's external and agricultural and financial. In Proverbs, you'll be rich if you obey God. But the book of Job itself breaks the prosperity gospel because the whole issue is do you love that stuff or can you have a relationship with God independent of that stuff? Right? And the prosperity gospel meshes the two together and has no room for the book of Job. So, in other words, the book of Job puts us in the best position where we can feel safe enjoying God's blessings without making them more important that they are than they are. Do you know what I mean? Super good question.

[01:16:35]Um, up up in the front row perhaps.

[01:16:39]We're not going to get to all of these.

[01:16:40]I'm sorry everyone.

[01:16:41]>> I don't think it's >> right. Thank you so much for your teaching. It witnesses to me very deep about I lost everything in my life.

[01:16:51]Alcoholic, drug addict. I won't go too much into all that. And I lost my family. I lost everything. I lost houses. I was a mess. And I I I I called out to God and he saved me. But I didn't know the reasons why and what. But now I see the truth. It doesn't mean I won't get my family back or nothing, but it's a deeper than that. It's my relationship with God. And Job explains it so deeply.

[01:17:15]and God has led me to come and listen to you speak it because it's it's speaking to my heart about my heart for Jesus and God and and and and it's so good. Thank you. [applause] Thank you, sir. Thank you. Amen to that.

[01:17:35]>> Um it says you you said that um God allows the uh suffering to prove the reality of the relationship. Yes.

[01:17:44]>> Is there a sense that obviously in Job's case he was um already in a really strong place. Is there a sense that if people are going through that suffering >> Yeah.

[01:17:57]>> they wouldn't have that strong relationship if they hadn't gone through it? If that makes sense.

[01:18:02]>> Um yes, if I understand you correctly, yes, that's the case. Job already had a strong relationship, but almost the last with God, but almost the last thing he says is now my eye sees you. He's just taken up with God in a whole new way.

[01:18:15]>> I guess I'm asking for us that feel a bit more me and mortals. Um, do is there a sense that we need that suffering because our relationship wasn't where it should be?

[01:18:27]>> So, good question. I want to be careful with that. I never want to imply you're suffering because your relationship with God was deficient and that's why that bad thing happened. I don't want to go in that direction. I never want to go in that direction. On the other hand, God does allow these serious losses so that we go deep with him. And on the one hand, we should never view God as angry with us. We need to keep chapter 1 vers8 in mind. If you considered my servant like Job did, you can write your ver your own name into into verse 8. Have you considered my servant Sarah or Mike or Andrew or whatever? There's no one like him in all the earth. At the same time, I don't know what else to say in the book except we go deep with God. A lady in my church said, "You really fall in love with the Lord when you realize he's all you have." That's a good way to say it. And I don't want anyone to feel blame, but it's true to say that there's a depth with God we would never experience when our lives were going great. I that's the I I hope that's helpful.

[01:19:28]We have a couple more minutes, please.

[01:19:39]Um, you said that God allows suffering because um, it proves the faith. And you said that Job doesn't grow, but it proved that he actually loved God for God's sake. But >> who are we who is it proving it to? Is it proving it to Satan?

[01:19:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. Good question. Oh boy.

[01:20:03]I don't want to say like he's proving it to the devil. Devil doesn't matter and the devil's not sincerely interested in the questions of Job's integrity. Right?

[01:20:11]I think I rather want to say I the marriage analogy is helpful for me in the in the same way my my internal feelings for my wife didn't change when I said my vows. But I was proving, I was externalizing, I was formalizing, I was binding myself in a way that demonstrated, you know, forsaking all others. And in the same way, like people ask, Job passed the test so beautifully.

[01:20:35]God would have known that, so why go through the ordeal, right?

[01:20:39]It seems to me, the best way I can explain it is that there comes a time where it can't stay theoretical anymore.

[01:20:47]Where God asks us to put our money where our mouth is. He knows the inner state of our hearts. But it is somehow important for us when there's a lot on the line and it's not a theoretical hypothetical question anymore to say, "Lord, I love you more than that." And on the one hand, I I want to separate that from growing in patience or the fruit of or something like that, the spirit. On the other hand, I want to say there's a kind of intimacy and communion you have with the Lord Jesus when you're treating him as a being of infinite worth. Does that help at all?

[01:21:20]I'm happy to come back to that again.

[01:21:22]We've got time for maybe one more question and then we'll pray. Please, >> Eric, I'm so thankful that I came this morning and heard your exposition of Job chapter 1. I would like to hear a little bit more about the parallels with Jesus in that he created the whole cosmos. He owns the cosmos. He entered the creation, made himself nothing, went through Gethsemane. The creation turned in against him and crucified him. He rose from the dead and he's back into glory now. uh returning as Lord and King and George.

[01:21:51]>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Great question. Here's how I explain it. This is not the only way to say it. This is the not the only prefigurement of Jesus we see. But here's the big way that I see it. Job innocently suffered what he thought was the wrath of God when he's innocent to destroy the accusations of the devil and to prove as it were that a relationship a saving relationship with God is actually possible. Would it be too much to say that Job prefigures Jesus in the sense that Jesus innocently suffered the actual wrath of God to destroy the accusations of the devil and to open up the way to a saving relationship with God? That seems like a significant parallel to me. That's the strongest connection I would want to make.

[01:22:37]Although there are other connections that we can make. Thank you everyone so much. Can I pray?

[01:22:50]Lord, we want to thank you for taking us seriously and not treating us. Lord, you do uh care for us and tend for us as children.

[01:22:59]But thank you, Lord, that you call each one of us to love you for your own sake.

[01:23:06]And you call each one of us into that terribly dignified position of actually being a Christian and loving you despite what we lose. Help us, Lord. Enable us by the Holy Spirit to actually be be real Christians, open up our hands and when you allow some terrible loss like Job to say, "You gave, you have taken away. Blessed be your name anyway." And may we experience the salvation of our souls as we do, we pray. Amen.

[01:23:36]Thank you everyone. God bless.

[01:23:38][applause] >> [applause] >> Oh, praise the name of the Lord our God.

[01:24:04]Oh, praise his name forever.

[01:24:11]For endless days we will sing your praise. Oh Lord. Oh Lord our God.

[01:24:23]Oh Lord. Oh Lord. Oh Lord our God.

[01:24:31]Oh Lord. Oh Lord our God.

[01:24:37]Our God.

[01:25:00]How and steadfast through every trial the angless Rock of Christ, a mighty reuge of endless love through every changing time.

[01:25:26]You are faithful.

[01:25:33]Your endless mercies will endure constant [music] and steadfast faithful and true forever.

[01:25:48][music] We will trust in you.

[01:26:05]Jesus our anchor in trid [music] through the storm.

[01:26:19]In every season [music and singing] that comes our way, your remains secure.

[01:26:31]You will hold [music and singing] us forever more.

[01:26:37]You are faithful ever.

[01:26:44]Your endless [music] mercies will endure constant and steadfast faithful and true forever.

[01:27:01]We will trust in you because of your great love. We are not consumed.

[01:27:16]We stand in In my season, your steadfast love will never end.

[01:27:30]Oh, how great is your faithfulness.

[01:27:35]Because of your great love, we are not consumed.

[01:27:43]We standing.