The Minds Behind the Crimes with Dr. Patrice Berry

[00:00:13]Hello and welcome to Trial TV Live. I am so excited that you are joining us today uh with Dr. Barry. We are going to have her come and talk to us again about some high-profile cases that we are covering.

[00:00:25]So I without further ado, welcome aboard, Dr. Barry, how are you today?

[00:00:30]>> Doing good. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:32]>> Oh, thank you so much for joining us again. Really appreciated our conversation last time. And we're going to kind of tie a bow on the Isaac Apadaka trial because that did come to a verdict. Uh but we're also going to talk a little bit about Carlos Dominguez because he is in um verdict watch right now.

[00:00:49]>> Yeah.

[00:00:49]>> Uh and then of course um Lindsay Clancy, which I know everybody is talking about and we are looking forward to covering that as well.

[00:00:57]>> Nice. So, um, do you want to talk about anything high level before we dive into, uh, each one individually?

[00:01:04]>> Let's let's go.

[00:01:05]>> Let's just do it. All right. All right.

[00:01:06]All right. So, Isaac Apadaka um was just found guilty.

[00:01:11]Uh, Kiara, his uh girlfriend, on again, offagain girlfriend um fiance took the stand. And then, uh, also there was a, um, forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Michael Welner, took the stand. Now, he talked about a couple things which I'd like to dig a little bit deeper in with you. Uh, he talked about trauma bonding, coercive control, and trafficking, and then violent fantasies, and gaslighting. So, let's just kind of take that one at a time as it applies to Isaac and Kiara.

[00:01:42]>> Yeah.

[00:01:42]>> So, trauma bonding, first of all, what is that? And then, how did you did you see that with those two? Did you not see it? What What are your impressions? He did a really good job breaking down exactly what each one of those things were and how it applied to this case.

[00:01:58]What I really took from his testimony was that their relationship was not healthy. And she um because the the trauma bonding, the gaslighting, all of it kind of goes together because she questioned her own reality and she would believe whatever he said and um his reality became her reality and she became dependent on on him in that way.

[00:02:25]And um and he used that control to keep her doing things even when everything around her, her mom, everybody would say, "He's not good for you." And the connection that they had, I don't view that as real love.

[00:02:43]>> Because my view of love is we don't hurt each other. We don't have each other do things that would that are not good for each other. Because it was really all about him. because at one point he was having her do adult work. So, and he was and he was according to her testimony, he was keeping most if not all of the money. And that made that meant he didn't have to work. And she never questioned that to say, "Why am I out here?"

[00:03:11]>> And he could be working himself. Like she she never questioned it. And yeah, >> so that kind of goes into the coercive control and the trafficking, that kind of work. Um, and the gaslighting. So, according to uh Dr. Wellner, um Isaac was gaslighting um Kiara specifically by telling her, "I saw this video of you and this other person, Grace, was collecting money while you're getting assaulted by, you know, 16 men." And [snorts] she she believed that even though there was no evidence of that, the police did an investigation and there was nothing that came out of that. So, um did do you agree with that? like did you do you think that was uh accurate?

[00:03:57]>> And once again that's distorting reality. So and she went with his version and um she kind of talked about this spiritual thing that we did not dive into. I don't know where that falls. That um cuz a lot of us have kind of speculated how did he know that thing from her past, her dark secret that nobody knew and she didn't even say it on the stand.

[00:04:24]>> And I just I wonder if he was good at reading people and if he said something to the effect of I know there's something from your history that you're ashamed of. And then I and then as she's reacting and he's reading her, if he kind of figured out what it was versus truly having this intuitive knowledge of something about him, >> right? [snorts] >> She called him the archangel. She thought he was archangel. She saw him in the mirrors. She said when she was in jail. Um she said she saw Grace's ghost.

[00:04:59]Um I'm not going to discount any of that because that's her reality, not mine.

[00:05:03]Um, but it is interesting that uh that he was able, like you said, maybe he was able to pick up on things, [snorts] but who planted in her mind that it was Grace that did it and there were 16 men involved and Grace was collecting money?

[00:05:19]Like, I wonder how that all wonder how that all came about.

[00:05:22]>> And but I think that was a way to control her to have her and Grace not be friends. Do you know what I mean?

[00:05:29]Because maybe Grace would have warned her like, "Hey, be careful with I I don't I don't know what his relationship was, but sometimes people that are doing coercive control, they often try to isolate the person where they're not cuz even the moving from the house to that garage cuz she mentioned during her testimony that he mentioned something to the effect of they needed to be further from her mom or something. Like there was some reason behind that and to me it felt like isolation.

[00:05:58]>> Right. Right. And uh just a quick reminder, Chad, if you have any if you have any questions for for for Dr. Barry, please do a QQQ.

[00:06:08]You guys know the deal by now. Put a QQQ in front of it so I can see it and we'll we'll pull it up in a little bit. Um yeah, I thought some of the really great uh points. So there's let's see, let me just read this through. Um Isaac was gaslighting Cara about that she believed he was reinforcing it by saying he saw videos on the dark web. Grace orchestrated uh using a dull knife cuts like butter. She'll die instantly. I'll burn all the mess. I'll buy a new bed.

[00:06:34]All this stuff um just kind of reinforced what he was uh how he was controlling her, which I thought was like when asked, you know, instead of just saying one or two things, the doctor just kept going on and on and on about these things. And I think that really helped the jury connect those dots to be like, "Oh yeah, we heard that in testimony." And oh yeah, now you're saying it. And oh yeah, now you're saying this is coercive control. that that I thought was really good.

[00:06:57]>> And I wonder if his message because we don't know why like what was most impactful to the jury because there were times where the expert seemed to be over for for me personally. Um I like it when experts come off just providing the information and they don't seem like they're too far on anybody's side where even so when the defense asks well is it possible where they're like yes that's possible and then on redirect they clean it up. Do you know what? Like he he he wasn't giving the defense like any like any question they asked, he was answering what he wanted to ask and not necessarily the question that was asked.

[00:07:35]Like he was directly told say yes or no.

[00:07:38]And so I wasn't sure if the jury would find him less credible because of any of that, but they they they convicted Isaac on on on all counts. So >> yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:47]>> Uh that's a great point because that that rolls into we did two polls. I did one poll um before uh Dr. Wellner testified and who is the star witness for the state? So 56% of our community out of 316 votes um 56% said Sergeant Vhill and Isaac's uh interview and then only 3% said and I didn't even know his name at that point. I just said forensic psychiatrist. So then after Dr. Wellner testified. So still Sergeant Vhill was he was top. So for and Isaac's interview because I think that was pretty important. So went from 56 to 49% but uh Dr. Welner went from 3% being the star witness to 30% being the star witness and Kiara went from 39 to 20%.

[00:08:37]So what do you make of that?

[00:08:39]>> I thought his testimony it just helped answer that question. how could somebody get another person to do what she did?

[00:08:47]>> And and it really helped answer that cuz he he got her to continue doing adult work after she had been after she had, you know, trauma. He had her do all of these things. And um he was instigating her that um she even told him like, "If you want me to do this, you need to make me more mad." And he would and he kept riing riing her up. And uh he tried to deny like to minimize those things. Oh, we we weren't talking about that. We were talking about something else. But none of his excuses really made any sense at all. Cuz even in his conversation with his mom, to me, it sounded like he was trying to come off poor me, but still trying to control the narrative.

[00:09:35]>> Agreed. 100%. Um and also I think we t we touched upon this. I hope we did. If not, I'm thinking about about something else. Um, Cara was no saint. She was in her text, she was just as controlling.

[00:09:47]She's like, don't be a, you know, don't curse word at him, you know, man up basically. Um, so she was, >> she was giving it not as good as Isaac because he clearly was, you know, controlling her to the point where she's selling her body. But, you know, she was definitely throwing it back in his face of like, man up, you know, you're not treating me right, you all this kind of stuff. So again, toxic relationship, those two were feeding off off of each other uh in a negative way. And um I think I What do you think about mom?

[00:10:18]Because there's some people that are asking about I'm going to pull this one up. Let's let's get to some questions because I think this is a good one straight away. What do you think about the mom? Why why how come the mom allowed uh it was Lanny? How come Lanny allowed him to stay in the house after knowing what he had done to her daughter? But I wonder if she didn't want to lose her daughter. Do you know what I mean? Like if if her mom didn't give them a place to stay. I think he could have made more appointments for her cuz he was he was controlling the appointments saying, "You have this many dates tonight."

[00:10:50]>> And um at least her mom like knew where she was at night. Like so I I I could see that possibly being a part of it. I think if her mom had kicked cuz that's where if I was the mom I would have kicked him out and if she decided to go I'm okay. No, you can always come back but he can't.

[00:11:11]>> Mhm.

[00:11:12]>> I love you. He But so but I think the mom was worried about like losing her potentially about losing her daughter.

[00:11:21]Yeah.

[00:11:21]>> Well, Kira did use that manipulative tactic of uh you kick him out, I'm going to be on the streets with him. I'm going with him and we'll be on the streets and you know, thanks a lot, mom. That kind of thing. So, what's a mom to do? You know what? What would you do? I think that's a good point what you just said.

[00:11:36]He's not welcome. You are always welcome. If you need a place to stay, hot hot meal, hot shower, you can always come back, but do not bring him.

[00:11:44]>> Yeah.

[00:11:45]>> So, all right, let's check this one out. Um, Katrina Bunny, what do you make of Isaac signing the paper for his phone to be searched? Do you think he thought that he could talk his way out of it? because she did the thing because I I think he was gonna say he didn't do anything and that he had an excuse in his mind for every single message. Um so the criminals that think they're really really smart that think they can outsmart everybody that they've planned this in a perfect way >> uh they because because he he tried to say she there was a second phone in the house and she used that to send those messages and he didn't. He he tried and and the jury the jury didn't buy that.

[00:12:26]>> Yeah. And and the defense used that were trying to use that against Detective Vhill about >> is that a tactic? You know, if you if you give me consent, you'll get your phone back straight away. If you don't give me consent, you won't get it back for six months to a year. You know, to a 20 six, seveny old, I'm sure, or actually to anybody to be quite honest in this day and age, I'd be like, "Well, damn. I don't want to give my phone [laughter] away for six months."

[00:12:50]>> I think he was trying to be the hero.

[00:12:51]like he was trying to be, "Oh my gosh, I reported. I can't believe she did this horrible thing. I had nothing to do with it." I don't think he thought he would he would be arrested or if he did, I think he thought he could talk his way out of it >> because his prints weren't on like I think he thought he had thought everything through. And this was 20.

[00:13:12]>> So now we know how much is on our phones. And back in 2022, I don't I didn't follow true crime as much back then. I we we always know that phone data can can come in, but I I honestly think he he thought he was smarter and and he could talk and control anything or anybody.

[00:13:32]>> Oh, I agree. I agree. He came across to me as a cult leader in the making and I could see him if he if he if they didn't get caught on this he could have continued on and then because he already was saying he took out 40 people that's what he was telling Kiara. Um I could see them like if they had taken Grace to the tunnels, right? That's what they originally wanted to do and and nobody found her for a year, two years, whatever it was. Um, I could see them manipulating and doing something to somebody else, you know. Did you ever get why he why it was Grace? I never quite put my finger on that. Like, why Grace?

[00:14:14]>> I don't know why he targeted her.

[00:14:16]>> And I don't know I don't know who broke up with who cuz they like Isaac and Grace did date at some point. like I don't I don't know what happened in in that dynamic. Um, >> right. Was he dumped by Grace? So, he had this jealousy. Was was she like the one that broke his heart, you know, because we all all have that, you know, and he over it. He might be so so sadistic that it was just finding somebody because finding the person closest to Kiara >> because because Kiara considered before he got in there even though her and Grace weren't close at that time she considered Grace to be somebody that she loved and once cared about.

[00:15:03]>> Yeah.

[00:15:04]>> So it's once again isolating her mo her more that I'm the only one that cares about you. I'm the only one that's that has your best interest at heart.

[00:15:13]>> Right. I don't want to give him any credit whatsoever, but but I'm going to give him this caveat. He was smart enough or he was perceptive enough to realize what you just said because I think that's that's pretty valid. And then also to recognize that Cara was manipulatable and that he was able to manipulate her and um you know and that that takes a certain level of intelligence, a certain level of you know whatever it is, you know, so he's not just sitting watching TV drinking beer all I mean, he's he's literally manipulating Cara, probably manipulating other people in his life, you know, whatever it is. So, I'll give him I'll give him that, but I really don't want to. [laughter] Um, all right. Let's see. I think I know I know we have limited time, so I just want to we can cruise on to the next. I just want to quickly get mom of a medic.

[00:16:03]When is her sentencing? Uh, it hasn't been set yet, and but we'll we'll keep an eye out for that. And if it is streamed, we will stream it. So, don't worry about that. All right. So, uh chat, we're going to Is there anything else you want to say before we move on to Carlos? [sighs and gasps] >> Uh let's let's let's move on to Carlos.

[00:16:25]We're good.

[00:16:25]>> All right.

[00:16:26]>> Isaac is going away for a long time.

[00:16:28]Cara is going away for 30 years. That's that's the upshot of all that. All right. So, Carlos, if you guys were with us earlier today, we were watching the experts on the defense side testify. Uh the uh both parties rested on Thursday and the jury is deliberating as of 2:20 local time. They started to deliberate on Thursday. They set their own schedule. So we have no idea if they're going 9 to5, 10 to 6, 10 to 2, 12 to 1.

[00:16:55]I have no idea. All I know is they started to deliberate Thursday at 2:20.

[00:17:01]So, in the meantime, what we're doing is we watched the state present, you know, key witnesses there, key evidence, key witnesses, and then we did Carlos's family, which was his dad, his sister, and then his second cousin. And there was some really interesting things that came out of there. Did you did you happen to catch uh on his mom's side, did you happen to catch any of that? And if not, it's okay.

[00:17:25]>> I think last trial, not not this trial.

[00:17:28]>> Okay. So his dad's sister has epilepsy.

[00:17:32]Okay.

[00:17:32]>> And her and his mother, this is dad's, this is Carlos's dad. So his aunt and his grandmother in El Salvador. Um I think mom uh his grandmother's taking care of his aunt and she has epilepsy and I think she might have some other mental illness that they they didn't quite mention. So defense is trying to tie in the genetic, you know, connection there.

[00:17:55]>> Okay.

[00:17:55]>> And then so that's on his dad's side.

[00:17:57]Then on his mom's side, the second cousin came in. So it was um mom and and first cousin. So Carlos's second cousin.

[00:18:05]And he testified that mom Carla Carla is is mom's name that she there was never uh there was always some kind of crisis.

[00:18:13]There was always some it was always chaotic whenever they got together.

[00:18:17]There was specifically they went to Las Vegas as a group. He he he rented this huge Mercedes Sprinter van. There was like 20 people in the van. And at dinner, uh, Carla had a had a had a moment where, you know, the men were sitting with the men, women were sitting with the women. She wanted to sit with her husband, and that was a huge deal.

[00:18:35]She sat in the room the rest of the trip. Then driving home, she apparently grabbed tried to grab the wheel because she wanted to kill everybody in the van.

[00:18:43]So, the defense is saying now on both sides, now again, no one has been diagnosed other than his aunt on his dad's side, but Carla was never diagnosed. But the defense is trying to show, you know, mom's got a history of at least anger issues or something's going on there. So that's kind of the backdrop of that.

[00:19:03]>> Okay.

[00:19:03]>> Um, so with all of that, uh, that was the family testifying. Then today, we did the experts. So we brought in all psychiatrists. [laughter] I wanted to play a psychologist, but I didn't get to I just ran out of time. Um, so we had a social worker. We had um everybody testified from the first trial. So there was really nothing new other than um other than the whole cannabis use and Dr. Winer brought in four. So Carlos met four out of 12 criteria for cannabis use and that put him in the moderate range.

[00:19:39]So once again, the defense is saying his cannabis use was not not a cause of this. So where where do you stand with with that?

[00:19:49]Uh, [clears throat] so I think even the state had somebody so cannabis use it can so somebody's psychotic you're going to recommend that they not that they have to get stable that they not use um that that substance. Uh, and so it likely didn't it didn't help anything. uh and it likely made and so but he he does have schizophrenia like that that is one of one of his diagnoses but a person can have a diagnosis and this and the state still feel that they should be held criminally responsible and that's where our conversation about you know what should we do in cases where we know mental health played a significant role um and where where do you kind of go from there >> right Um, that's a great point because we will touch upon this now. I I did some I did some research. Uh, Uncle Google helped me. But these are from reputable places. This is from >> Oh, let me see if I do I have my citations. National Alliance on uh >> medical health treatment while incarcerated. So, I mean, these this isn't, you know, >> it's not it's not, you know, seventh grade [laughter] my cousin's uncle's nephew. All right.

[00:21:05]Over 40% of incarcerated individuals have a diagnosed mental illness. Yet nearly 63% So 40% of incar so 40% of somebody who's locked up has a mental illness and 63% of them receive no formal mental health treatment.

[00:21:22]>> All right. Then out then you have 15 to 20% are diagnosed with a serious mental illness or SMI such as schizophrenia, bipolar or major depression.

[00:21:33]So we kind of touched upon this I think in the last uh stream about prisons unfortunately have just become this deacto you know mental me mental facility. Um what can we do? Well, first of all, do you agree with those? Are you have you heard the same numbers? And then second, like what can we do as a society to be like we have we have to do something to help these people?

[00:21:59]>> And uh there is information from the from NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. And um people who have mental health conditions deserve access to quality mental health treatment. Um, but there are things that get in the way of that. And so sometimes it can be staffing. Uh, sometimes it can be a lot of different things. Um, and and mental illness can be, you know, trauma, ADHD, substance issues. It can be a variety of things. Um, and somebody can have a mental illness and still um, be appropriate for prison, I think. Um, and so there are some states that have guilty but mentally ill where the person is able to receive mental health treatment first and then complete their sentence in the jail setting because it's helpful to the jail setting to not have people that are actively psychotic.

[00:23:00]to have people that are like um because uh there can be additional issues that happen in jail if you have people that um are are are not are not safe for to themselves to others >> and um and so I do hope that more states um because it's really hard to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. I think it's less than 1% of the people that attempt the defense actually are found not guilty by reason of of of insanity. It does happen, but I think it's it's rare. Um, I think more people attempt it than um and and in Carlos's situation, the difficult thing is I think he was in denial about his diagnosis and that um he was delusional and disconnected from from from reality.

[00:23:53]>> Um now the legal question is did he understand that what he was doing was wrong? And I think he would say he thought they were shadows. He didn't think they were people. Like I I think that's what that's he thought he was attacking the shadows. Um and I I don't know what what the jury's going to do. I think it's interesting that they've still been deliberating since since Thursday.

[00:24:18]>> Well, we we have breaking news. Nosy Rosie, the channel just called me. Yeah, verdict is in.

[00:24:23]>> All right.

[00:24:24]>> So, I am looking on uh KC and nothing has come in yet. So, um, >> do you want to watch it if it comes in before? Okay. All right. If if I can find it and it comes in, we will watch it live here, guys. If not, >> uh Oh, okay. Hold on. This is Okay, that's a mistrial reaction. Not that.

[00:24:45]>> All right. So, guys, we will keep an eye out for it. Um, [clears throat] all right.

[00:24:50]>> Looks like Yeah. So, it looks like it might be live at seven. That's what it looks like.

[00:24:54]>> All right. according to the chat.

[00:24:56]>> The chat is always the best. [laughter] >> Live at seven. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right, guys. Thank you for that. Um All right. In the meantime, um uh let me see here.

[00:25:07]>> And and and I can stay on until 7:30 if they're I can I can stay on a little bit later. My child might just And I'll I'll tell my child where >> Sorry, kiddo. Just >> YouTube matters more. [laughter] >> No, no. his he he had a snack. Like it's just we're just >> I'm just kidding. [laughter] We love all children here. We are we're not gonna we're not gonna say that. All right, let's see. Um let me go back to Carlos. Okay, so uh another question that I had was was the coming in and out of psychosis. So I thought that was a really big thing like rational thoughts and this kind of plays into Lindseay Clancy as well like how can you take out three of your children? How can as a Carlos, you know, he's he's making making beats on his on his computer.

[00:25:53]He's one day he's stabbing David Bro and then he comes home and he goes about his life and then the next day he's stabbing Kareem and then the next he goes about his life, then the next day he's stabbing Kimberly. Like, how? Please explain that to me and then to our to our community. Like is it possible for somebody to come in and out of a psychosis and not remember what they did or remember and it's like a dream or like what what's your impression on that?

[00:26:20]>> So somebody that is actively psychotic they are disconnected from reality and there can be different severities. So it can be mild where a person might just hear a voice calling their name. It can be moderate where they might have um auditory hallucinations all the or they might be paranoid there might be some delusions or it can be severe where a person is having command auditory hallucinations and if somebody is hearing a voice telling them to do something. We almost always recommend hospitalization because people have literally like harmed themselves harmed harmed other people because of that type of command voice. um that we don't we don't play with that because if the person loses connection with reality, they can act in that state and nobody knows like where they really are besides them. Um and there were other situations where you see the person still in the active psychosis and they have it on the body cam and and you see that this person is completely disconnected from reality. They don't understand what they've actually done. And often once they become stable um they can they can really be depressed. It reminds me of the Andrea Yates case um similar case to the uh Lindsay Clancy where she has decided like she's been up she's been eligible for parole or like to be released from the psych hospital and she does not want to be. Um, she believes that she's exactly where she needs to be. And and I think I wonder if there's a part of her that knows that she's safer and others are safer with her having that regular care, with her having treatment, with her being in in that in that in that place.

[00:28:10]>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Um, just so you know, and just so chat knows, um, we are watching the feed from court. We do not have permission to show that, but we will at least know when >> they when that kicks in.

[00:28:23]>> Awesome.

[00:28:24]>> Uh on KC, they're showing the K Street shooting mistrial reaction.

[00:28:28]>> Okay, >> so those are the two sources that I have. Um so just to update you and to update our our communities. So until something kicks in, just take take a deep breath everybody.

[00:28:42][laughter] We are on it. Don't worry, we are on it.

[00:28:45]Um, okay. So, yeah, that that's a really good point. I'm I'm I'm fascinated by that because I was watching Defense Diaries yesterday, shout out to Bob and Ally, that um they were getting ready for Lindsey Clansancy, and Bob was talking about, you know, just because you're you're diagnosed with a with psych, you know, schizophrenia or any kind of, you know, psychosis or mental illness doesn't mean you're like, and I'm paraphrasing, Bob, sorry. doesn't mean you're bulging eyes and you're drooling and you're ah doing all this the whole time. And I think that's that's a really huge misperception. And I had it too. Not that I thought that. I I didn't [laughter] go to that that extreme, but I'm like, yeah, how do you know how do you know that?

[00:29:28]>> And a person can be in a psychotic state and still be held criminally responsible. And so I've I've covered those cases. There's a case out of South Carolina, really sad case where um uh a mother did, but like she was in a she was in a cult and um she the cult didn't believe in medicine, didn't believe in mental health >> and in that state she harmed herself and her her her child. she survived and a jury found her guilty even though the state experts all said yes she could like she didn't understand what would but there were messages there were there were these other things that I think the jury considered and we leave this up to a jury like it's up to like the it's not it's not left up to medical professionals the medical professionals provide their opinion but it's up to the jury to interpret the law which is right >> because there there can be bi that that that comes into that.

[00:30:32]>> Um >> because sometimes people are like, "How could a mother ever do that to their child?" No matter. So people people can have their their their own bias, >> right? Well, that's what that's this whole Lindsy Clancy thing is going to be like, "How could a mother do that to three three of her children, you know, and it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to be able to wrap your head around that." Um but I think we just have to for those that are going to watch it, um I just say just be as open as possible as you can. I know we all come in with our with our biases and and all that stuff, but I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to take what Bob said to heart last night. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to go into this as as as open-minded as possible and I'm going to try and figure out what was going on with her. Uh just like with Carlos, you know, I I went into it last year. I wasn't really on any team last year with Carlos, but after watching that first trial and hearing just expert after expert after expert and then and then the thing that really got me was like, okay, if you think he's mingering, try to pretend you're schizophrenic for even just a day, let alone a week, let alone a month, let alone six months, you know?

[00:31:38]And and to me, I challenged myself to that. I'm like, "Yeah, I I I couldn't even remotely do that, you know. I can't imagine somebody wanting to not take a bath for weeks on end, you know, having snot drip out his nose for an entire session, you know? I I I just that I just >> and and and not being aware of like so there being a lack of of of awareness.

[00:32:03]So, um I've worked with individuals that are diagnosed with schizophrenia. Um I actively work with with individuals with that diagnosis. uh the difference between when they're on medication and when they're not is is is huge. And when they are not stable, that's where um often um because sometimes it's the meds that that they have to be adjusted. And um because some people they come off their meds um uh because they think, "Oh, I'm fine now." And not realizing that this is a that this isn't something that somebody grows out of. I thought the expert that went over just the the fact that with >> a schizophrenia diagnosis, the individual will need to stay on medication. And if they ever come off of it, they can actually get worse. Like it can actually be harder to stabilize them the next time if they come off of their medication.

[00:32:58]>> Now, that might play into the Lindsay trial, right? Because and we'll kind of blur lines at this point. Um because I have a lot of questions in the back end here and I want to pull those up. But Lindsay apparently 13 medication she was on. She had >> so she wasn't actively on 13. She had been switched. Okay.

[00:33:15]>> So um she was initially placed on Zoloft I believe and then she had a really like she couldn't sleep. It it may have triggered mania. So, if she is currently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, um with with um a prescribing an SSRI, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, they have to be careful to get a good family history of is there any family history of bipolar disorder because if there is, we have to watch out for for mania and um because they because once she had the negative reaction to Zoloft, I want to say they placed her on a different SSRI instead of instead of instead of like doing something else like and she she just kept getting worse with every medication change. Uh my heart breaks for that family because she was actively trying to get help and uh the father her um husband I feel like I feel like I heard somewhere he got remarried. I don't know if that's true, but her her husband, he filed um a lawsuit against the providers um because feeling like that her care was failed and um because they attempted to hospitalize her, they attempted to get her into programs and um they attempted to maintain her at home. And so that's where I want to say high functioning depression can sometimes be a because a person might be able to work still a person might be able but just because a person is high functioning doesn't necessarily mean that they are safe and stable >> and so because sometimes we think high functioning depression but um uh because she she was a nurse and I wonder if they were I don't know if people were treating her different because she was in the medical profession but at that point she I think she wasn't working because she she she was not stable and um every everybody was was aware of it.

[00:35:13]>> Um uh yeah. Um so I've done safety plans with clients that have severe postpartum depression where a part of our safety plan is that they are not left alone with the children until they're no longer having either thoughts to harm others, thoughts to harm themselves. um if they're having thoughts about harming harming the baby like sometimes with severe postpartum especially postpartum psychosis sometimes a person will get um and they're intrusive thoughts it might be command auditory hallucinations a person can um end up being a risk a danger to themselves and others. Mhm.

[00:35:54]>> So obviously um schizophrenia or mental illness does have a genetic >> Yeah.

[00:36:02]>> predisp predisposition. Postpartum depression that is that and truck please don't jump on me because I'm a male. I'm asking stupid question here. Is is that has nothing to do with genetics or or does it?

[00:36:15]>> So um that's where somebody would work with their psychiatrist and sometimes their gynecologist. So, I've had some clients where it was their their hormones and really them getting um and so medication and stabilizing hormones.

[00:36:28]There is a new postpartum medication that people can research. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I don't even want to mention the name of it, but um there is a new where somebody I think they take it for seven days or something and there have been some studies that have come out that have been really positive with this new medication. Um and um but often a therapist or this the gynecologist is the person that hears about it first. Um after I had um our child, I was screened because um they were constantly asking me for the first year about my mood as well. And they build us for it too. Like I was like, "Wait a minute, why am I?"

[00:37:09]But but um uh I was given a screener at the pediatrician's office because they they wanted to make sure that um because sometimes person might meet with the pediatrician before they meet with the with with the gynecologist and so yeah.

[00:37:25]>> Gotcha.

[00:37:27]>> Thank you for that. Um so Heidi asks today someone said that even in a psychosis people are responsible for what they do. Could that be true? I think you kind of touched upon that. You can be held liable for it even though it. So it's did you understand the wrongfulness of your act? So even in a psychotic state, a person might run from the police and that can sometimes be looked at as a like consciousness of guilt or um and so like did you understand because legally that's what insanity is is that a person did not understand. So, the person truly thought doing this was saving their children and they were, you know, like like there's normally something very specific that fits that criteria in a very very small percentage of cases.

[00:38:11]>> Now, Carlos did not run from law enforcement, but Lindsay tried to take her own life. So, kind of two different things there, right?

[00:38:20]>> And I wonder if the jury will have some sympathy. I don't know, but like I wonder because she is forever physically injured, >> right? like she's in a wheelchair for the rest of her life because of of all of this. Um I don't know uh what but but um red rum someone else is or sorry yeah is still illegal like like you're not like um you're not supposed to do something to um so that's where the jury is it's going to be up to a jury. Uh, I'm really interested to hear what experts the the the defense has. I think they're going to bring up her treating providers.

[00:39:01]They're likely going to question um like if you if there were if she's talking about staying up all night, like those are classic signs of possible mania.

[00:39:11]>> Why would you keep her on a on a SSRI?

[00:39:13]Like that's a legit that's a that's a that's a legit question to to be asked.

[00:39:18]And so, um, uh, it'll it'll it'll be interesting to see.

[00:39:25]It's really sad that sometimes people get the care they can afford and not the care that they need. And so, um, adults being hospitalized can sometimes and sometimes people are trying to avoid like because being in hospital is not a walk in the park like that is. Um, uh, people can sometimes get worse when they're away from their family, when they're in a a hospital setting.

[00:39:48]>> Um, I I don't know if her husband really realized that she had that that that that could have happened, you know, and so no matter how good of a person, like if somebody is experiencing postpartum psychosis to take that seriously. Um, baby blues is different from postpartum depression. So sometimes um after having birth like I will kind of get baby blues. Some people will get postpartum anxiety or depression. I've also worked with clients that while they were pregnant they also experienced um uh significant mood changes as well. But yeah >> gotcha. I'm sorry. I'm just uh reading reading an article. Um >> uh we await details of the verdict which would will be read no later than 3:15.

[00:40:37]That's local time. That would be 6:15.

[00:40:41]So, we're well past that.

[00:40:43]>> Yeah, >> but that was updated.

[00:40:47]>> Sorry. Hold on.

[00:40:48]>> You're good.

[00:40:57]>> Yeah, I I I agree, Afton. Um, and also just wanted to answer [clears throat] the question real quick about if I've ever testified in court. So I am I am a clinical psychologist, not a forensic psychologist, meaning I focus on treatment. So sometimes people that I've been treating have been involved with family court. So I've I've been um I've testified as an expert in clinical and child psychology and I think trauma in um different court systems within within Virginia as both a fact witness just saying what I observed and what I saw.

[00:41:34]And then once I was licensed, I've testified as an expert witness as well, but it's mostly been in in in family court.

[00:41:44]>> Very cool.

[00:41:46]>> Um, okay. So, in Oh, actually, let me get to a few more questions here. Um, we've been kind of talking about this with, but JMS, can you be me mentally ill and still plan a crime with premeditation?

[00:42:00]>> So, normally, so sometimes it's more impulsive. Um, I don't know because sometimes, um, it's like an impulsive act. Uh, but the the premeditation part would make most psychologists think that it's not an active mental state. So, Leticia Stout tried. She's she's going to attempt uh, and insanity defense, I believe, if she does get that that new trial. But she did a crime and then covered it for like there like she drove thou, you know, all these miles and did all these other things and she's trying to say that she's in this continuous >> psychotic state and that's not >> while her daughter is seeing her and she's looking normal, talking normal, everything see like her daughter had no idea what was what was going on. And so, um, when there's premeditation, but, um, what's more likely to happen is that, uh, uh, it's more impulsive. That, that's what I've seen personally.

[00:43:01]>> Meanwhile, Ganon, right, was that the child's name? Ganon, I believe, he's in the back of the station wagon, right? In the suitcase, [clears throat] >> wasn't he like in Yeah. I mean, how do you like how do you do that? How do you how do you justify that as a normal That's where it sounds like you're trying to get away with a crime and not like you're in an active you're disconnected from reality. Like you seem to very much understand that what you're doing from my personal like not court involved with this case at all. But >> um I think she'll likely be convicted again if if she does get another trial.

[00:43:40]>> We shall see. We'll cover that. Um so Nosy Rosie asked a question in the stream earlier. Um and I said I would bring this up. So if Carlos doesn't have family support, would that make it difficult for him for one day to be released? So how does that work? So you go you go into a facility, you know, you do your time, you go through treatment, all this stuff.

[00:43:59]>> Sometimes it's like 20 to 30 years or sometimes it's it's never being released.

[00:44:03]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially taking out two people and trying to take out a third person. I don't personally I don't see him ever getting out, but that's just I don't ever see that happening. But let's just say somebody maybe got in a fight. You maybe punch somebody and put them in the hospital but they survived and then that person is deemed you know uh not guilty reason of insanity and they spend five years let's just say so not having a family structure not having family and friends does that >> I would think it would hurt >> so sometimes they step down to a group home so sometimes they don't go straight to family like some some people especially if they lack family support um some people might stay in a group home setting. Um because you're going from the state hospital, the state hospital is the forensic unit is the highest level of care. So somebody found um not guilty by reason of insanity.

[00:44:57]They're not going to the typical ward in most states, at least in in Virginia.

[00:45:02]They are going to like the forensic unit of a state hospital where they're re where they're receiving treatment, receiving medication management. And if they ever are released, there are conditions for their release. And if they violate those conditions, they can be um uh either have jail sentence or potentially come back to um the the the state hospital >> um because that happened in the Slender Man the um Yeah. in that in that case.

[00:45:33]>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um here's a great question from Debbie and I I looked this up earlier, but I want to see what you think about this. So if Carlos is found guilty, can he get the right treatment he needs in prison?

[00:45:46]>> And so that's where yeah, even in prison, people have have the right to decline treatment. So if he wants to continue to receive treatment, um now people can be ordered by the doctor because if they're harming themselves, harming other people, they can be administered medication against their will. M >> but um if he is in the in the regular prison setting, he would he would have to want to continue to be on medication.

[00:46:15]And that's where when they're housed at that um when they're assigning them to to a prison, they are going to try to make sure that he has the the support like that he's he's at a place where he could continue to receive medication management, that maybe there's therapy available. And therapy is not going to be every day or it's not going to be he would have more therapy in a hospital setting than in a prison setting. And in a prison setting, so um I have friends that have done forensic rotations in state hospitals, they check in on clients sometimes once a day, but um depending on what the client's needs are. Um but um on the regular jail side, you might check in with your case load once a week unless they ask for you. Uh on the NGRI, not guilty by reason of insanity. On that side, you're normally getting a check-in every day. Um you're receiving group therapy. You're you're receiving a lot a lot more support.

[00:47:20]>> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I uh I agree with that. uh from my own limited um research that um jails are more well they're punitive. They're you're you're there to be punished whereas a state facility you're you're you're trying to be rehabilitated. So um to your point where you you might get checked in once a week, you're going to fall through the cracks. Whereas if you're in a state facility, you're going to be going to group therapy. You're going to have individual therapy. you're going to be in a in an environment where people um theoretically care about your rehabilitation versus you're just there to be punished, sit in your cell, blah, you know, that kind of stuff. So, >> yeah.

[00:47:57]>> Um all right. Uh we are still uh keeping an eye out for um we actually know the outcome, but we won't say it until when are we going to say it? We're going to hold off. No, >> we we'll hold off because we want to see if we can get a stream. Unfortunately, well, not unfortunately. I guess there was another there was another shooting and there was a mistrial. K Street, Sacramento K Street mistrial. So, they're streaming that live right now.

[00:48:26]But, um >> we do see that uh >> the verdict has been reached, but we'll we'll we'll deal with that in a second.

[00:48:33]All right. So, um I think that kind of goes that that finishes my thoughts with Carlos. Um, did we talk about um the one comment that was in our community today? We didn't talk. Okay. I want to address that with you because we talked about that um before we came on. So, >> everybody's allowed their opinion. Not going to, you know, that's that's all fine, but how do we address like how do we how do we address this? How do we educate people? How do we um I guess just address this position because a lot of people feel this way. We had a vote, a poll, 125 people voted. 38% said guilty on all counts, 62% said not guilty. So that's, you know, clearly the majority was not guilty, but still 38%.

[00:49:17]That's quite a lot. So we had somebody in our chat today said, uh, Carlos clearly guilty on, uh, all events. He thought, he acted, he followed through.

[00:49:26]He needs to be sent to prison. He can deal with himself there. So what would you say like how how do we address that position? How do we how do we deal with that? And then so as as we watch true crime and that's why I use my channel to help educate people on mental health, I wish I wish that Carlos had recognized that he was prodal. I wish his family had realized and um I've worked with uh refugees from El El Salvador and um regular mental health treatment because sometimes culturally you're you're dealing with culturally sometimes people are like there's nothing wrong with you or or we do these other things to manage. And so with with mental health, making sure that u mental health is reaching populations that that that that need it that that people aren't falling through the cracks cuz um it sounds like before uh he started to not go to school regularly and before that he was very intelligent and that um there was a change and I don't think because often the person with schizophrenia they are not going to realize that they that they need help and um family, friends, people around them um because sometimes they isolate too where they kind of start to withdraw from family and friends. Uh and so I just I I wish that people had stepped up sooner. And I also want to say that the majority of people with mental health diagnoses don't do crimes.

[00:50:56]that while yes, there is a large, you know, that mental health does represent a large part of the prison population um that often individuals um are more likely to be a victim of a crime than to actually do one because sometimes there can be a stigma connected to mental health or people can be like, you know, I don't want to admit that that these things are going on and um I wish that that he had received treatment in advance and that all of this never never happened. It's going to be up to the jury. And so that's where whatever the the jury decides because even the person that made the comment, they might not have watched every moment. They might not have seen every every expert that's that's testified.

[00:51:39]The jury has had this case for has it been four weeks, five weeks, >> uh something like that. All through July. Yeah. And I think it started before that. Yeah.

[00:51:50]>> Yeah. Um, I can I can definitely um yeah, I can check in a second to see when they started, but it's been a while. It's definitely been a while. Uh, Racer Girl asks, uh, this would be Lindsay Clancy. Um, do you think she's medicated now? She hardly blinks and looks straight forward during the better part of her proceedings, >> especially with doing a not guilty by reason of insanity defense. um often individuals because their treatment if they're incarcerated um that that treatment becomes because they're because same thing for Carlos, the people that were that are currently treating him testified in in court. Uh and so they often are on some type of medication. They often are receiving um therapy. It's it's often like once a week, but um they're often receiving some some level of of support.

[00:52:41]So Carlos actually started May 28th. So all of all of June and then most of July. So a good six to seven weeks. So long trial. Long trial. [clears throat] Let me see if I have any. [laughter] So Kimbers, if a verdict does come back hung again, what happens to Carlos?

[00:53:03]>> I'm not a lawyer.

[00:53:05]>> Yeah, I know. I personally hope that the state just says let's do let's just do a let's just do a plea let's just do a deal here and just call it a day. But um we didn't watch uh jury instruction. So I'm not sure. I think I think Judge McAdam offered a lesser included or maybe the defense offered involuntary manslaughter. I think I kind of heard little bits and pieces about that but um not 100% 100% sure about that.

[00:53:31]Let's see. [clears throat] All right. Um, Lindsay. All right, let's let's touch on Lindsay. Eight jurors have been seated. They're going for 18 18 jurors. Um, only because of the length of time. They think it's going to be six to eight weeks. Four to six. I've heard I've heard six to eight. Um, and they've seated eight, which I'm I'm surprised in two days they've actually gotten through eight. Uh, based on I think a lot of people, from what I've been watching and hearing, a lot of people this is very high profile. I think they're bringing in more prospective jurors uh than they did for Karen Reed. Um do you think uh like if like do you think 18 is enough too? Well, it can't be it's not going to be too many, but do you think do you think they could have gone with with uh 14 or 16 or you think 18 is is appropriate?

[00:54:22]>> So, and also they might lose people along the way. So, I think that's why they're saying 18 um because you just you wouldn't want to start it all all over again. So the the and also this is a very sensitive trial. Um uh this Yeah, I'm I'm I'm not surprised that they're that they're going to seat 18.

[00:54:42]>> Yeah. Now, if you were a um [clears throat] if you were on the defense or the state, would you want more female? Would you want more male?

[00:54:49]Would that matter to you?

[00:54:52]I know you're not a lawyer, but put on your lawyer hat.

[00:54:54]>> Uh so sometimes women are harder on women. I don't but like because sometimes um or but but because they're probably going to rule out people that have experienced postpartum depression themselves. Do you like the state is I don't know like I I would guess the types of questions that that that they're asking. Um I don't I just um I don't I don't know what what makeup.

[00:55:22]So I am not an expert in like jury and what would be better or or worse. Yeah.

[00:55:29]>> Right.

[00:55:29]>> I don't know.

[00:55:30]>> So JMS has a update. So So it's 12 jurors have now been seated. So seven seven women and and five men. So >> yes, >> I think I think as long as you are honest, which you theoretically are supposed to be and say yes, I can I can go into this trial and you know, not have any preconceived notions and any biases and all that stuff. I I don't think it really matters. But I do agree with you that certain things, you know, like you would identify more, you know, if you're male, you might identify more or I have four sisters. I kind of identify, you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of on the female side, so I can understand that position as well. So >> um I think um I think I would be a good juror in one respect and I'd be a terrible juror on another respect because I watch too much true crime now.

[00:56:15][laughter] >> Um so let's see what about Lindsay. I I know just really high level stuff and we kind of have been touching upon it. Um I know it's almost quarter after. Do you want to just talk a little bit about Lindsay few minutes and then I'll read I'll read the verdict. So tell me tell me what what what you think is going on with that.

[00:56:34]>> [clears throat] >> Uh, so I think the defense has a strong case because this is a case where she was trying to get help >> versus a case where um the person does the thing and then later comes and says, "Oh, I was having these thoughts." And like she was asking for help. She was crying for for help. Um uh and so I just I don't know where the jury is is is going to fall. Um they did change her medications cuz it was I think over like I think it was like a six month. It wasn't a long period of time. She was on multiple cuz they started on SSRIs and then antiscychotics and mood stabilizers um including I think anxiety medications and like they just kept throwing meds at it and not letting uh because I heard a psychiatrist uh Dr. Ysef um I encouraged the chat to go check out his video. He is an expert in the medic in the medication side and he discussed in his video the importance of um because sometimes a person can have like a toxicity to the medication that you need to let clear before you try more meds because they just kept throwing more meds >> on symptoms and maybe her system needed to like let the um cuz SSRI can take a long time to get in your system and a long time to get out. every medication they were trying took a while to get in and a while to get out. And we don't know like what effect this one is having on this one. Um her sleep I don't think was ever stabilized fully like even with high doses of um sleep medication. So I'm thinking Trazadone or something like that. She was still like not able to sleep and still having these intrusive racing thoughts. And I think they were aware that she was having like I think they were aware that there might have been some psychosis. And so um I'm I'm I'm interested in um in in that. Now those medications can save some people's lives. So I don't want people to hear that and say um like I think her experience with her um that's not what happens to everyone. So, the individuals that I've worked with, normally within one to two medications, they're able to find something that stabilizes their mood. Um, sometimes when people try to come off of them, sometimes they have negative effects. Um, if anybody ever does stop like an SSRI, you have to do that under medical supervision because you can have withdrawal, you can have side effects if you just stop it on on your own. General information, this is not medical like this is just general psycho education.

[00:59:18]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So, it's almost quarter after. Uh we we do not want to uh hold you up, so we will do the big unveiling.

[00:59:26]>> Let's do it.

[00:59:27]>> All right. Drum roll. A California jury acquitted Carlos Realis Dominguez on secondderee charges Tuesday, but convicted him of involuntary manslaughter.

[00:59:37]>> Okay. So, they they let him go on the second degree. And it was the lesser included that I believe the defense brought in with involuntary manslaughter. So, it's the second time a jury's deliberated.

[00:59:52]Um, not sure what he is facing. I'm sure he's Well, I guess he's going to go into a facility at this point >> or >> but involuntary manslaughter. I think I think they found him guilty. So, NGR, so they they did find him guilty, but um I hope that his lawyers, everybody advocates for him to continue to receive medication, to continue to receive um support and and care. Um yeah, that's that's Yeah, >> let's see what what the uh >> but I'm I'm I'm not surprised. And also then we'll see what the judge sentences him to. Um cuz I'm guessing for the involuntary I wonder if there are some different options. I also wonder if the judge will in that maybe um I've I've never seen a judge do it where cuz sometimes a part of probation is staying on your medication or like sometimes probation conditions based on like >> sometimes they they decide some of some of that.

[01:00:55]Yeah.

[01:00:56]>> So, according to uh California law, it is up to four years and a fine of 10,000 $10,000. So, it could be two, three or four years. So, says up to four years. I I hope I I honestly hope that he isn't just let go after that. And then I I just think he needs he needs help. He needs help long term. Mhm.

[01:01:20]>> I I don't you know I don't think he's going to get that from his family. If he's released 3 years from now, where's he going to go? I don't I honestly don't see his family.

[01:01:28]>> So that's where his um because they don't want recidivism. So recidivism is when people uh do a crime and they come back to jail.

[01:01:36]>> And so uh his social workers, the people there, um will hopefully because he might step down to a halfway house. Mhm.

[01:01:46]>> Um but like but sometimes a halfway house is some or I don't know um if he'll be eligible because he he might be eligible for um certain resources or or different or or different things. And so >> yeah, >> um yeah, >> I mean maybe his sister, but his sister's only like 15, you know, I mean, you know, and his brother is even his brother's um like 18 or 19. I mean, I hate to say it. His his parents Well, his mom didn't testify in either trial.

[01:02:16]Dad didn't really seem I mean, he cares about his son, but he also was like, I'm missing work, so I care more about work.

[01:02:22]You know, I I just don't see him going back into a really positive environment with his family, and they're going to be there to take care of him. So sadly, I don't know if that was I mean, I'm happy that he was found not guilty, but I kind of wish he was just put into a state hospital and >> and and I think he's been um cuz his competency was restored and I think he was switched over to >> to the holding jail and now um I I do hope that they make sure that he's in a place that has because he might be able to do some school and because in jail they don't when they're when they're waiting for trial they can't do they don't have access to the different resources. Um I have a family member that was incarcerated and was able to um like do anger management. They were able to access like multiple services. They had access to education. And so that's where if people there are some facilities that that do provide supports. Um, I mean, sometimes people sign up for those so that they don't have to be in their cell because you often if you sign up for a Bible study or like if you sign up for different things sometimes it gets you, you know, out of out of out of your cell. Yeah.

[01:03:35]>> Um um but I ju I just I just hope that um he's he understands um that he he'll need to stay on his medication >> and uh because once he's did once he's released, it'll be just a prison release and not a mental health release.

[01:03:55]>> Right. Right. Um yeah, I don't know what the next phase is. I I I guess that's it because if he was found guilty of the of the higher charges then it would have gone into a penalty phase. So now they found him guilty on the lesser charges.

[01:04:07]I don't know if they get to deliberate on that or if it just now >> goes to the judge. Yeah. So we'll find out. So [clears throat] all right. Well, we will let you go. I don't want you to keep your keep your is son your son.

[01:04:19]>> Yeah. Don't want to keep your son waiting. So thank you again for joining us. Um any last parting words before uh before we let you go? So, thank you again from having me for having me. If you're watching on my channel, please make sure to go over to Trial Live TV and subscribe there. Uh, they stream live trials and I like your recaps. So, you you recap during lunch. There's a cat camera. So, my son just fell in love with cats. Yes, I see. my my son um we went to Florida and he my my best friend has a cat and now my kid loves cats and so um there is a cat camera during lunch and so y'all do a phenomenal job and um I'm so glad that we were able to connect and um I'm sure we'll connect again maybe towards the end of Clancy like maybe toward toward the end.

[01:05:10]>> Absolutely. And y'all will always see me in chat, okay? Like normally working on reports, working on notes, but I'll I love getting to hang out with you all.

[01:05:19]>> Awesome. Love the support. And guys, definitely if you're watching on our channel, I know a lot of you have already subscribed, but please please take a moment and subscribe Dr. Barry's channel. Absolutely fantastic work that you do over there. Thank you for joining us again and we will definitely see you in well, six to eight weeks, five to six weeks, something like that. All right.

[01:05:38]Awesome. All right. Have a good night.

[01:05:40]>> You too. Bye.

[01:05:42][clears throat] All right, you guys. Again, thank you very, very much, Dr. Barry. Uh, again, very insightful. Um, fantastic uh um opinions, if you will, and insight. I love it. Um, so once again, the big news is that uh Carlos Realis Dominguez was found not guilty on secondderee.

[01:06:03]Uh, but he was found guilty on involuntary manslaughter.

[01:06:07]And that carries a two uh I guess a two to fouryear uh prison in in state prison. So he's not going to he's not going to a uh mental health facility.

[01:06:17]He's going to state prison and then a fine of $10,000. So and Wild Angel, I think you just posted uh that they're going to start phase two tomorrow. All right. Second phase starts tomorrow according to news article. All right.

[01:06:30]All right. Fair enough. We are heavily into um Colton Colin Gray. Um, so as much as Lindsay Clansancy is going to be starting, kind of locked in with the grays right now. So we may be doing some catchup with um with with with uh Lindsey Clansancy. So anyway, all right you guys, uh, thank you for joining us.

[01:06:51]Really appreciate it. Um, thank you again, Dr. Barry. Thank you to Mods on both channels. Thank you to Aaron for bringing in all kinds of great information. And thank you to Chat for educating us on the verdict coming in.

[01:07:05]So, um, really appreciate that you guys.

[01:07:07]Uh, with that all being said, have a fantastic evening and join us tomorrow for more coverage of the, uh, cult sentencing, but we're we're going to be showing Colin Gay's here, um, trial tomorrow. All right, guys. Uh, have a great one and we'll see you tomorrow.

[01:07:23]Bye.

[01:07:36]Heat. [music] Here [music] we go. [music] >> [music]