Valdese Town Council - Special Called Meeting (May 18, 2026)

Added: 2026-05-19

[00:00:00]Councilwoman Ward, >> I would actually like to defer to Shannon.

[00:00:08]>> Thank you.

[00:00:11]Good morning, everyone. Thank you for coming. I appreciate everybody that is also able to attend this meeting with us. Um, [clears throat] uh, as an elected official, we're all chosen to represent an entire community.

[00:00:24]Our residents depend on us to ask questions, seek answers, and to find solutions that create a brighter future for everyone, not just a selective few.

[00:00:34]One of our most important responsibilities as a council is to review and approve a balanced budget that is transparent, responsible, and in the best interest for our citizens.

[00:00:45]Last month, we held a budget retreat.

[00:00:47]While the meeting was open to the public, unfortunately it was not livereamed like it is in the years past which limited access to many residents who could not attend in person. During that retreat, handouts were provided and I would like to reference that I would like to reference this morning.

[00:01:04]I will reference and discuss exhibit five which outlines departmental expenses. The first line item for each department is salary expenses. We as a council are now be being asked to approve a pay study adjustment without having received a full detailed report.

[00:01:21]We have been told for the details will come after the budget is approved.

[00:01:26]I don't know how we're supposed to approve a budget if we don't have the full report.

[00:01:31]I have personally reviewed the proposed payroll increase for each department and calculated the percentages increased.

[00:01:38]What concerns me is that we paid a significant amount for t of taxpayers money for this pay study. A process that reportedly took six months to complete, including interviews with individual employees and documented detailed description for each employee employees roles within the town. However, the council has not been provided with the detailed findings of that study.

[00:02:00]Instead, we have only received a summary sheet showing minimums, averages, and market figures. We have not seen the supporting information regarding job description, years of service, qualification, experience, and the methodology using to determine these proposed figures for our town employees.

[00:02:16]Additionally, some of the numbers being proposed appear different from the recommended original recommendations originally from the Triad company that conducted the study. That raises important questions. What did these where did these numbers come from? Who adjusted them? and on what basis were those adjustments made? All of these questions are questions that we should have as council moving before we move forward and pass a budget. In my opinion, transparency matters, especially when taxpayer dollars are involved. Our citizens matter and that's why I have these questions. Next, I would like to address the proposed fire tax. Many residents have contracted, excuse me, contacted me with concerns because they understand that our fire department is already funded through the town's general fund. Following last Monday's meeting, I received numerous calls from some of you that are sitting out here today.

[00:03:12]The conversations from the community members who are upset about the title being given to this proposed tax increase, many residents feel the wording is misleading. As an elected official, I believe it is my responsibility to listen to my constituents and take to their concerns seriously.

[00:03:31]After doing some research, my understanding is that in order for it to be a separate fire tax to be added to our property tax bill, the town council must first approve it and then it must go in front of a board of commissioners that and all funds for the fire tax could only be used for the fire department. So, if this is going for anything other than fire, including police, we cannot call it a fire tax. It is important to note the majority of this purpose for the 13 cent tax increase appears to allocate toward funding the pay study increase, not solely fire protection services. I also want to make it clear that I support building a public safety building. I've heard over the past week that that is something that people are questioning. I do not have a problem building a building that we have needed for so long. But the fact is I believe that we need to understand how much [clears throat] it's going to cost before we pass a budget to understand how that money is going to be raised from our community. Just last month in our retreat, I was told we could not spend a penny over $10 million because we simply could not afford it. Just last week, I had a conversation with Mr. Mr. Herms, the mayor, and Mr. Wel. And I was told that now we are looking at 10.8 million to 11.2 million.

[00:04:52]We are being asked to support a 31% tax increase, a 7% water increase, and at the same time anticipating and depending on Burke County raising property tax by approximately 20% next year in order to fund the public safety building.

[00:05:09]How can this council responsibly approve a budget when there is still no definitive total cost for the project?

[00:05:16]To me, that feels like signing a blank check. I have never operated that way financially, and I do not plan to do so now. Our citizens deserve honesty, accountability, and financial responsibility from all of us. Before asking residents to shoulder significant increases in taxes and utility costs, I believe this council owes them the complete information, open discussion, and a clear understanding of exactly what they are being asked to pay. Thank you.

[00:05:48]So if you can put that picture up there.

[00:05:59]So this is a picture that it shows that there's a 13% tax raise that we're wanting to incorporate into the town of Aldis. What that reflects is it's a 31% tax hike for everybody across the board.

[00:06:13]My question is where is the money actually going? Is it a tax for fire tax or is it a tax for the pay study or is it a cumulative tax? What are what are we doing?

[00:06:25]>> So uh I will try my best to answer as much as I can. Um in order to fund the um police and fire station, we we we need this additional 13 cent.

[00:06:39]It goes back to what it the tax rate that the town has operate had operated on for the majority of the decade when the taxes was cut three cent and then again on 10 cent. Uh the way that the staff bud balanced the budget was taking out any future debt service payments. Um that was one of the ways that the budget and Bo if I'm incorrect please correct me because I wasn't here for that but from my understanding that was how the balance the budget basically got balanced on at a staff level they took away the money used for debt service. Uh at that time the building was going to be an estimated what I've seen on paper I wasn't here uh $7.3 million. Uh since then the same building has uh increased to uh somewhere between we haven't got a a firm figure but we have a got a range somewhere between uh 10 uh 25 and 11.25 depending on several factors that we're working through such as do we put tile floor down or do we use stained concrete? Do we put ceilings in or do we paint the and leave exposed ceilings? There's a number of things that we're working through at a staff level with the contractor to try to mitigate some of that cost. The 10.8 is not to exceed uh because we have to have a number to go to the LGC and it has to be a real a realistic number that they could look at and review our finances.

[00:08:11]The LGC handles buildings across the state on a monthly basis. Uh they understand the cost of building better than probably anybody [clears throat] I know they understand it better than I do. Um so they will look at the plans, look at what we're looking at and then they would come up and say if the the number we're using is a realistic number. U without the 13 cent increase, I I don't think the LGC will approve the loan to build the public safety building. as far as what the money is going for. Right now, the fire department is 100% funded out of the general fund.

[00:08:55]So, the fire tax would offset that. So, it would relieve pressure on the general fund that things that the general fund are paying for now, it would take some of that out and we could use that money for other things such as the pay study.

[00:09:10]Um there's also another important aspect to this is uh we're also banking on a a positive reevaluation in uh when the county does their reevaluation to offset some of the additional costs going forward as well.

[00:09:28]>> We're depending on that though, aren't we?

[00:09:30]>> Yes.

[00:09:31]>> So what happens if Burke County comes in and they only have a 20% increase? Are we going to raise taxes again for town.

[00:09:41]>> We have some things in there that we would have to adjust such as maybe not do as much paving as we've done in the past, maybe not do other things as we've done in the past. U I've I I have said since very beginning there the LGC is not going to approve the loan unless we can show that we can pay for it.

[00:10:04]>> And I understand that. And going back through exhibit five, talking about streets and paving. We're taking all of the $325,000 every year out of the street paving and we're putting it into the public safety building. Is that correct?

[00:10:22]>> I think it's 375.

[00:10:24]>> 375. You're correct.

[00:10:25]>> Yeah. So, we get um roughly and I'm I don't have the numbers in front of me. I think we get somewhere between $ 110 and $150,000 a year in POW bill, which is what the cities you most cities use for well, we have to use it for paving and streets. In the past, the town has supplemented that to the tune of uh 375,000.

[00:10:46]So going forward that the tax dollars paid um in to the general fund would be supplemented into the public safety building and not additional uh money towards paving. So we're about to do a huge paving project. Uh we're finishing up the smaller ones and we've got I think 1.1 or 1.2 million that we're so that we're about to release. Uh we're going to do that probably over phases and we'll get the majority of the list done and then going forward instead of completing the list the rest of the list in 7 to 10 years it may be 15 or 20 years before they get completed.

[00:11:30]I think my concern right now is when you're talking about a reval next year that is going to possibly be another 27% um I mean it basically bulls down taxes will go up that way too. Um and when you already have people calling about a 13 and a half cent raise I think we need to go ahead and look at cuts now other than later down the road. Um, the fact that the first thing that comes up for us to cut is our street paving shows that our priorities are off in this town.

[00:12:04]>> When you have departments that can say that they only fund 42 and a half% of what of their department, I'm not saying I'm not talking about like utilities, that sort of thing. I'm talking about things that have been wants for our town, but those are things that may need to be cut because if you don't have streets to get to things, people don't care. If people drive into our town and it feels like you're, you know, that that's things that people care about. We need to we definitely need to be looking into departments and saying, "Okay, until we get our needs fulfilled, I I hate I I love the the bells and whistles of Valdis. I will always be a, you know, I will always say parks and wreck is huge for my my kids, my family, my kids grew up on those fields. I understand that. But are there cuts that need to be made? I'm not saying these are easy for us. I have wrestled with this. I have been up late at night going, what do we have to cut to make sure? And another thing, something that the mayor has brought up in his um talks to different people, our town, the median age is 53 and a half years old.

[00:13:16]We are known as a older town. We are aging which means most of the people who are living in houses either have uh inherited those houses, they don't have mortgages to spread the taxes out. So you have people on fixed incomes who are trying to pay their taxes every year who are having to either leave Valdis, find something else, you know, somewhere else to live, who have lived here their whole life, but we're not willing to make the cuts to make it okay for them to still live in the town that they've called home for years. Things like that matter to me. That's the calls I'm getting.

[00:13:53]That's the emails I'm getting is how how do we afford this? And I think there's there are some hard decisions that need to be made. And on top of that, to not know exact numbers and not even before our budget meeting on the 28th, I don't know how we're expected to make any type of decision definitely. So until I get some until I see that we have made cuts where they need to be made, I I can't be okay.

[00:14:25]>> What are you proposing? Well, I'm I'm proposing that we possibly look, have any cuts been I hate that. I do not like the fact that every time we bring this up, we go immediately to our streets.

[00:14:37]Well, if we don't raise the taxes, we're going to have to cut our street paving.

[00:14:42]There are there are other things. If if departments What departments do we have right now? I want to see numbers for which departments are we seeing the most drain from. Uh, I know that is a hard question to ask, but do we have departments where we need to look and say we're going to say you at least have to bring in 50 to 60% of your revenue?

[00:15:05]Uh there's there's questions like that that I feel like as a as a person who has to deal with a budget for a 501c3 and my own business and myself, are we not I just don't see how we can make it to where everybody is paying for something when we definitely need a public safety building to keep everyone, you know, safe. There are other programs that we're going to have to look at now because I sat in that meeting and I asked that question. I sat in the budget meeting and it was not live streamed.

[00:15:32]So, I have no proof that anything got said the way some things were not recorded even in the minutes that I had said correctly um now that I'm going back and looking at them. But I specifically said if it is over $10 million, will we be able to afford it?

[00:15:46]And I was told no. So that tells me now if we're already looking at 10.8 11.2, what are we going to have to cut to afford it now? because people are coming after us next year when that reval hits cuz we're depending on this reval to up people's up the revenue to the town which means our citizens will be paying more in 2027 and I'm just wondering do we need to take hard looks at things now instead of saying we'll just keep pushing the hard decisions down the road and just say keep taxing them keep taxing them keep taxing them um that's my thoughts on it it's it's tough it's I know it's do or die with the public safety building. I understand that, but are there other things that we need to look into evaluating?

[00:16:36]>> Council, any questions?

[00:16:42]>> And I and again, um, when I when I was asked about the 10 million if we could afford it, maybe I I wasn't I didn't communicate properly the way I should have. I was basically saying we can't afford anything more than 10 million without making changes to our normal operating budget which includes you know some street paving and some other things. Um >> but we talked about that >> we operated um we developed this budget based off of what we was directed. We can we can at the end of the day the budget is the council's so [clears throat] council gives us direction and we will be more than glad to go that in that direction.

[00:17:26]>> We talked about the paving in that retreat. Yes. That was also discussed.

[00:17:30]So that was already part of the 10 million.

[00:17:32]>> Yes.

[00:17:32]>> So that's >> I think that's [clears throat] why why we're looking at what else is going to be cut or >> how much more are taxes going to go up.

[00:17:41]>> Let's get the numbers guy up here. So I was waiting to be released here.

[00:17:46]All right, so we're going to recap. Um, I'm just going off the cuff here because I didn't know what we're talking about today. So, we're just going to kind of recap what we talked at the budget workshop and go from there. So, at the budget workshop, we had first tryon advisors. Uh, we engaged with them this year to help us with this process because we knew there were some hard decisions coming.

[00:18:07]There was three things that we outlined in the budget workshop that um needed to happen in order to make the the pay study work as presented by Triad and also make the public safety building work. So the first thing was uh a fire district tax which we're we're looking at here.

[00:18:30]um 13 cent is the number we came to based on the following two items that were going to be a major factor in this.

[00:18:39]So that next item would be next year's rebal to go rate neutral on that rebal.

[00:18:46]Um we don't know what that percentage is yet. We have a range. So we're taking the low end of that range. Um, so you got the the fire district tax now and you go rate neutral rate neutral uh on appra uh the appraisals next year. And then the third thing which was our fall back because we didn't know it was a little bit of a buffer but $375,000 in paving that is a contribution from the general fund for paving and if you remember in the PAL bill we have another 125 to make a total of 500,000. So, we're not totally taken away from the paving if we were to go that route and if we needed it, we would still have 125 per year to put towards paving. And like, uh, manager Herm said earlier, this budget currently has the 375 allocated towards that paving project. So, when we add that to what we already have saved up, we have a little over a million dollars still that we can do some paving work over the next few years. Um, but as first tryon kind of presented all this, these three things were necessary.

[00:19:58]The total shortfall, and I'm just kind of off the cuff of this, was between 1.6 and 1.7 million is what we need in the budget for these two items, the pay study and the public safety building.

[00:20:12]So, when you're talking about cuts, these cuts are pretty significant.

[00:20:17]The reason why we have these three revenue generating items in here is because we know the town wants to keep services the same. At least that's the assumption we u through our discussions with the council we don't want to cut any services. [clears throat] So the budget that's been presented this year is not cutting services. Now if we were to cut services obviously to make up $1.6 million is big cuts. So that's kind of where we're at at this point. So, if we keep things rate neutral next year, does that not mean we're going to have to do cuts? Because every year the budget keeps going up up up.

[00:20:53]>> So, next year either what, however we look at it, next year there's going to have to be cuts made if we keep everything the same after the rebal and everything else. So, >> well, rate neutral is different than revenue neutral.

[00:21:05]>> So, get those two things confused. So, revenue neutral is uh what we did a few years ago where we dropped the tax rate.

[00:21:10]Now >> uh rate neutral will be using what the county provides as the appraisal and using that number as and keeping our uh current tax rate the same >> even though we're counting on that for from what I was like what we were understanding in the meeting.

[00:21:28]>> Even though we're kind of counting on that for the public safety building also to help make sure we stay in balance.

[00:21:37]I'm just >> we we are rely we would rely on that. I just feel like there's going to be a lot of sacred cows dying in the next little bit in Valdis.

[00:21:43]>> Yeah.

[00:21:44]>> Like it's going to have to happen. And I hate to say that, but there's been we've danced around it for years, but there are some things that I'll be the most unpopular person, but there are things that are going to have to be cut to keep to keep people able to live here and wanting to move here. When we have citizens calling and saying, "We are leaving Valdi if this gets approved."

[00:22:04]And I don't put it past them and I know it's for everyone. they're going to keep coming back in.

[00:22:10]I I don't see that. I see our town. If you tax people to death, they're not going to want to be here. And I'm just making sure is this live stream, this uh slide right here. I want to make sure that's on the live stream because I know last week there were things that didn't get >> switch over the computer.

[00:22:23]>> Um I just want to make sure the citizens can see that because another problem we are having is our budget meeting was not livereamed. So, we have citizens asking questions that we are trying to answer for them today because we need to talk about, you know, do we need to make recommendations today? Um, because they didn't get to see a lot of the slides that we saw in our in the uh the tax retreat and those are important for our citizens to see to understand because they talk about transparency. We all talk about transparency, but that meeting was not transparent.

[00:22:57]>> Councilwoman Ward, what are your revisions? This is the purpose of this meeting today. This is >> we were to consider considering >> considering so what are your revisions?

[00:23:06]>> Well my we are considering them I we are talking about them to see what we need to consider. We're asking the questions to see what we need to consider. We didn't say we were making revisions. We said we were considering revisions.

[00:23:20]So that is what I'm doing. Did you have any more questions council?

[00:23:23]>> We need to have the tax um are we to raise the taxes in order to pay the pay study as well.

[00:23:33]The te technical answer to that would be no. However, that would cause us to dip into the fund balance. And if you're not planning on going rate neutral next year, then we wouldn't be able to fund the uh the the 100% of the pay the pay study.

[00:23:51]>> So then we should not be calling it a fire tax because it is truly being used for more than just the fire department.

[00:23:58]What percentage of the We looked at that. What percentage of the pay study is for fire department?

[00:24:06]>> Wasn't it like 30%.

[00:24:08]>> 34% I believe.

[00:24:10]>> Yeah. So the vast majority of the pay study is going towards the fire department. Again, the total fire department budget is well is higher than the the fire tax would be. So what we would do is we would use that to fund the fire department and and take the money that was currently being used to fund the fire department and shift it over to address other needs. So I'm just going rounding numbers here, but your total fire department budget's around 1.2 million.

[00:24:41]>> So the 13 cents is generating 742,000.

[00:24:45]>> So it's still falling short of the total fire department budget. But if you infuse that money into the fire department, >> I'm not talking about their budget. I'm talking about the fire department. We're we're calling it a fire tax and we're wanting we're we had said earlier that we were using that for the public safety building, >> right? It would be for the public safety building as the payment becomes active.

[00:25:06]That would be part of the fire department budget and supporting that budget.

[00:25:11]So under North Carolina general statute, it says funds collected through the fire tax are required to maintain a separate fund and used specifically for fire protection purposes. The statute is 69 TAC 25.

[00:25:25]>> Yeah. And it would be outlined in the budget ordinance that would that when council adopts the budget, the budget ordinance will outline it will have that separate line in there.

[00:25:36]But how are we calling it a fire tax when we're generate when we're paying for the pay study for [clears throat] the people in the town are, you know, in order to do the pay study. I'm being told it's going to be $514,000, >> right?

[00:25:49]>> To fund the pay study. And you're saying that the taxes that we're getting to raise is going to be 742,000.

[00:25:56]>> It would be that 228.

[00:25:59]It would be helpful if you could see the um budget ordinance itself that outlines how that those numbers are working. I I can't pull it up right now, but um how it shows the fire tax revenues and then the fire operations being supported by that and then fire operations revenue under the general fund abalorum tax is decreased by that amount.

[00:26:25]And at the end of the day, whether we call it a fire tax or we increase avalorum tax by 13 cent, the the amount of money that we need to bring in to our bank account to pay our bills with those directions that we was given for the pay study and the public safety building equals X. However, we get there is whatever council wants to do. Um, but if we're going to continue to offer the same services we offer and build a police and fire station, we need to get to that that X number. Um, whether you call it a fire tax or you raise the U Avalor tax or u we start looking at doing significant program cuts and it won't be just one program. It' be multiple programs. But it's my understanding that we don't know the 13 cents is going to cover that public safety building because we don't have a an actual number for what that's going to cost.

[00:27:24]>> Once we we got a good range, once we get the actual number, we have 60 days until that number is not no longer valid. It's the part of the design build that we entered into.

[00:27:36]>> It went up over a million dollars in one month. I would say that's higher than a range. U well, there's a lot of things that factor into that.

[00:27:45]>> I understand. I understand it. It's the fuel and everything else, but that can still go up from here. And so that's that's my biggest concern is how are we supposed to approve a budget when we don't know if it's going to next year we're going to be sitting here again and saying that we need to add another 5 cents or another 10 cents to our town.

[00:28:03]And I just I have a problem with that because I've just I've I'd have never approved a budget on anything without having the final number on something.

[00:28:15]>> Yes, I understand where you're coming from on the final number. The best I can do is to give you the range that was given to us by our contractor, which is what is what I've said, and to tell you that we're trying our best to get get it all in before the start of the third quarter because I have a I have a suspicion, and a lot of people do, those numbers aren't coming down. They're only going to continue to rise. Uh the building has went from 7.3 to over, you know, to 10.8 8 to 11 since 2023. So two and a half years it's went up that much.

[00:28:52]>> Well, I know in 2024 we did the same thing with the fire department and the police department and it was um said it was going to be 9.2 million when that was with Tally and Smith. That was in the meeting on May 20 in May 2024 on Massel Avenue.

[00:29:08]>> That's how much we were told back in couple years ago we could get a loan for $7.2 $2 million, but we were gonna have to subsidize at least another two million on top of it >> um to cover the building. Yeah, the building was still Yeah. the same.

[00:29:25]>> I I think that just goes to show what I'm trying to say is the building is not going to get any cheaper.

[00:29:32]It's only going to continue to rise. Um once we get the firm number which we should have uh early June to mid June we have 60 days from that point to either accept it or not and that will be a vote by council. Me and Bo does not have that authority.

[00:29:49]>> And is this pardon me go ahead.

[00:29:52]>> Uh we're just trying to get everything lined up with the LGC because uh you just can't call the LGC and say we want to get on your agenda. You have to do that a couple months in advance. In fact, we have a call with him tomorrow basically to get your preapproval based off of what we're recommending.

[00:30:10]Um, and then we'll go from there. Um, it's a tight schedule, but under state law, there's only so there's only so much that we can do. We've also within that 60 days have got to go out and get u bids from banking institutions on the loan itself before we go back to the LGC. Is that 10.8 or 11.2? Does that include just construction or is that site prepping equipment, architecture, surveys? Does that include everything?

[00:30:39]>> That's total packages. Yes, >> there's some furniture that probably not included, but we've got a donation of most of the furniture.

[00:30:46]>> And you're anticipating the final number to be when >> uh sometime early to mid June.

[00:30:54]>> And why don't they have that now?

[00:30:55]Because they've been working on it for months.

[00:31:02]design phase. So, >> there's there's there's a couple things going in there. One, I mean, I don't know if he wants it public or not, but our contractor had a medical issue with his family that took up a couple weeks.

[00:31:14]Um, and um, the we've, like I said, we've been going back and changing design at a staff level multiple times in in a in a in a in an exercise to try to get the price as low as possible.

[00:31:32]>> So, when there's furniture, we have the the it [snorts] part, all that is already that's that's built into the 11.2 or is it just furniture that's not?

[00:31:42]>> Okay. And there's nothing else outside of that furniture that we're going to say, "Oops, we missed that one."

[00:31:53]That's as far as I can answer today. No, we we've included everything that we can think of. Now, when we get in there, if we try to move, what's the thing that we have? True. What's the thing we got up there that fills the oxygen tanks? I can't think of the >> Yeah. So, if we try to move that, it falls off the truck or something. I can't account for that. You know what I mean? Like, there's things that we're going to have to transport and we're gonna have to move and they work perfectly fine where they're at. We're hoping and we're banking that they'll work perfectly fine when we get them to where we're going. But for me to sit here and say 100% that an accident's not going to happen or something's not going to pop up, I don't think anybody can say that with any construction project.

[00:32:39]And just so we know too, will there be a so we if we have this great windfall in Valdis is there can we pay this one off earlier then? I know we have three loans out there that are USDA loans that we're not allowed apparently to pay off early or we discussed that in our meeting. I'm just kind of curious why we can't pay those off to help put some of that debt service to this because we can't. We were told by Tron to not take any money. They just said basically borrow the entire amount. It would be better for us. Um is what I think I remember. So I was just trying to see if like these other three USDA loans like for the town hall, the splash pad, the fire truck, what were is there any way we could pay those off to put some of that toward debt service? Um you we'd have to look into what the agreements were for that. But if you were to take money to pay off the current debt we have. Um you'd be better off using that money to as a down payment towards a public safety building because it has a higher rate. So, it's how you use the money that you're if you would if you were going to pull money out of fund balance if you it'd work harder for you if you use it to borrow less on public safety >> because that's not I mean that's trying told us that it was better for us to borrow the entire thing other than take it from fund balance to do a down payment because I think we had asked about that also. I'm just saying if you were going to take money to pay off other debt, you'd be better off taking that money instead and borrowing Western public safety. Ideally, um what first try was saying is if you borrow the whole thing, that just leaves you a little bit of breathing room in your fund balance. Um, >> I just wish that had have been live streamed so every we we are receiving a large amount of questions and that's part of why I'm asking too because part of if we could put some of that debt ser that what we're paying on debt service toward those loans like any of it like if we paid off the town hall so we're not you know that it's crazy $1 million now it's three million it's just keep keeps on going so I didn't know if there was any way we could pay off one of those loans to put some of that toward it is >> right.

[00:34:56]>> My understanding is this loan with first try on correct would be 20 years and it will be paid off before town hall and the splash pad.

[00:35:08]>> Correct.

[00:35:10]>> Correct.

[00:35:11]We've ran the Bo ran the numbers and u a few year you know back when we first started this the way the loans are structured through USDA there's no real tangible benefit to paying them off early because of the structure of the loan uh there um all the payments we've been making has been very little of it's been going to principal and but the loan payments are so that that's why I guess the town did it at the time they did it. However, they've done multiple of those and they've stacked them on top of each other. So, uh while our debt sheet would look better, I don't think our total bank account will look better if that makes any sense.

[00:36:03]>> I guess at this time, what revisions are you wanting to recommend?

[00:36:07]>> I was just considering them. So, we were just considering.

[00:36:11]>> The other thing I'd like to mention before we close anything is the pay study.

[00:36:15]>> Yes.

[00:36:16]>> Um, our pay study is vague at best. It is generalized from much larger towns and does not seem to show fairness from one department to the other. Um, during our retreat, we spoke about our town employees and the pay increase and what is needed for each department. Um, and that we were below the state average. Um it was discussed that each department would receive a raise. Fire department, police department, um would be the highest. Um department heads would speak to their hourly employees and let them realize that yes, they will receive a small pay raise. However, their hours are going to be cut from 40 hours a week to 35 hours a week and no overtime would be allowed.

[00:37:05]I don't see how that is fair to every town employee across the board when the hourly employees, most of them are the ones that are, you know, coming out in the middle of the night when we have a busted water pipe or they're scraping our roads when it's, you know, snowing outside. and we're expecting to give them, you know, I think that you had said in your last email that they're averaging between, you know, maybe a 3 to 5% pay increase, but yet we're going to take 12% of their hours. How does that give them a pay increase?

[00:37:37]>> So, the u true pay increase would be closer to 18%, but when you take a 12% cut in hours, the net increase will be between three and 5%. So, they're getting a 12% pay increase or excuse me, a 3% pay increase if you're taking 12% of their hours.

[00:37:55]>> Yes. But they're working less hours, >> right?

[00:37:57]>> And I have said since the very time we first talked about this, I don't know if this is going to work. At the end of the day, staff was tasked with some very, very heavy lifts, some very heavy projects, and we was tasked with trying to figure out a way to pay for everything that was equitable and as fair as possible. This is what I've come up with. If council doesn't not like this, we can always do the pay study flat out without the 35 hours, but that is an additional 80.

[00:38:35]>> Well, in years prior, they would get 5% across the board. Where for the people that are going to be hourly, they're getting 3%. So, they would have been better off.

[00:38:44]>> If we had if we had not have done the pay study and just gave a 5% pay increase, you you're right. But >> no, I'm the people that I'm I'm I'm right because you're telling these people that are hourly that they're going to get a 3% pay increase instead of a 5% pay pay increase. I mean, the money's the money.

[00:39:02]>> So, You're telling that fire and police are going to not be touched. They're going to get their pay increase. And then all of the department heads that are salary, their bunnies not going to be touched. And everybody up here that's sitting here is not going to have their pay touched. But everybody that's working hourly for our town, their hourly rate is going to be not very much and they're only going to work 35 hours a week and no overtime is allowed. But didn't um because of moving the rate up some of these people are moving up 10 11% >> some of them >> not just three.

[00:39:40]>> I wouldn't know. I don't have a full pay study.

[00:39:42]>> That was >> exactly >> on one of these papers. I think >> I have an email that says a variety of things but I don't have a full pay study.

[00:39:50]>> So not every employee >> is getting 3% based on the pay study.

[00:39:56]depending on where they fell on that pay study. We we we use 3% because that's the the minimum somebody would get, right? So, if they were higher on the pay scale originally, then their their needle didn't move too much. So, um they would get 3% no matter what, even if they fell below where the pay study shows they're going to fall. So when we say they're they're only getting 3% but they're also working five hours less a week which is also >> So you're saying the people that are getting 3% are making more than the average.

[00:40:28]>> Correct. They they would move up based on their hourly rate >> and they're normally the ones who have been hired in the last two to one to two years because they came in to get someone in that position.

[00:40:39][clears throat] and we had to start them out higher than what the people that started out three or four years before then.

[00:40:46]>> So, how are we supposed to know this? We don't have >> Well, we are currently working on a public information request for that.

[00:40:52]Once we get it, we will share it with the entire council. We hope to have it sometime in the next day or two.

[00:40:58]>> Yeah. Typically the way the process works is when when a town does a pay study, the actual individual pay is not released to the employees until it actually passed because it gets their hopes up that you know they might be getting this pay. So when we present something or you know I'm not just saying about but other towns they present something it's it's more of a summary of here's how the pay stud is affecting the budget. If council wants to get into the details of what each person looks like and how it's affecting their particular, I'm more than happy to sit down and talk. Me and Todd are happy to sit down and talk with them more than that. But that's kind of the reason why that information is not, you know, presented in detail in in a meeting.

[00:41:42]>> So, so you'll be able to to show us an hourly employee what they're making now and what they will be making with the pay increase.

[00:41:50]>> Yes, sir. And we haven't seen that yet.

[00:41:53]I haven't.

[00:41:54]>> Correct. But you >> So if you got a guy that's making $18 an hour and working 35 hours, how much increase is he going to get? I you know, yeah, his his hourly pay would go up enough to make at least 3% more than what they're making now. Now, if the pay study shows that they need more than 3%, then that that accounts for that, but they'll be making 3% more than what they're making now. Their hourly rate will adjust for that difference in in hours.

[00:42:26]>> So, we can kind of get a a idea of how much each person, not each person, but each department is because you've got your salaries and wages at the top of each of the budget allocations. So we can kind of see, you know, if there's a huge jump in salaries um from last year, we can kind of go, okay, that department was apparently very underpaid. Um that sort of thing. See who is getting the most of the salary increase. Um >> okay.

[00:42:56]>> And and I'll tell you those those four department four biggest departments are your police, your fire, water, and wastewater departments.

[00:43:06]I I think another question that I have >> is uh if we go back to the 40 hours of the hourly paid employees and the pay increase included in that, how much is that going to cost us?

[00:43:22]>> So that would cost um for the general fund it would cost an additional $75,000 and the utility fund it would cost an additional $115,000.

[00:43:33]Even under that plan, there's some that are still going to be getting 3% based on where they fall in that pay study.

[00:43:41]>> I I don't understand.

[00:43:42]>> So there's even on a 40hour hourly rate, >> yeah, >> there's some employees that are higher up on the pay scale based on when they were brought in to the organization that they are still above that pace that pay study.

[00:43:57]>> So that 3% will still kick in for them.

[00:44:00]Now when you go back to 35 hours, it just becomes more employees that fall under that umbrella.

[00:44:07]So, are we doing an acrosstheboard raise for everyone this year or is it just we're trying to adjust and these are questions I'm asking because we were citizens were not privy to a budget retreat this year um with the is it a all across the board pay increase or are we just saying only the ones who were below are getting a pay increase? How what? So, because we're getting asked that question.

[00:44:37]>> Okay, good question. So, how the pay study works is they look at grade levels. So, in the updated paid plan, grade levels for certain positions move up. So, the higher a grade level you are in, the more the higher your salary range or your hourly range is.

[00:44:59]So when we're looking at u let's just say a police officer position they can they study that grade level against other grade levels of other towns and so forth. So they adjust those grade levels based on the salary ranges that they fall into. So a good rule of thumb um that our consultant had said was a grade one grade level up is a five basically around 5% increase. So as he's looking at these positions and you'll see the grade levels move with the new pay plan compared to the old pay plan.

[00:45:42]And so that's where your increases come into play at.

[00:45:46]Um, another thing that goes into the formula is your years of service with the town and also your time and position in that position. So you could say, for example, someone worked for a town for 10 years. Well, they may not have been in that position for a whole 10 years.

[00:46:03]Maybe it was five years in that current position. So that gets factored into that formula so that they're not starting [snorts] at that minimum grade level, but their their years of experience and then their time in that position is is factored in to help them maybe get to the midpoint almost of that pay grade.

[00:46:20]I would direct council that we received emails on March 31st and April 1st with information about the pay study that broke it down um by market rate with all the um towns around us and then also broke it down for Valdes. So we do have those um emails with that information >> and you will have the information for each department, each employee, and everything by the end of the week. Uh we will also send it out for the 40 hour versus 35 hours so you can compare. The last thing I want anybody to do is think we're trying to hide something from y'all. It's that's not the case. U it's like Bose says, we didn't want to back you in a corner where an employee sees they're going supposed to get a 20% pay increase and then council says we can't afford that and we only give them a 15% pay increase. That was and that is pretty common for all pay studies on cities.

[00:47:23]Another thing that's important to note on the pay study is this does when you say market rate this doesn't guarantee that our employees are going to be making more than sawmills or long view or granite or granite falls. It's to get us in the same market as them. So for an example uh even our police and the reason we're picking on police and fire is because they take up the vast majority of this pay study. Um, we're going to get them close to what Drex pays or what Long View pays, but not necessarily more than those cities. Fire is the same way. We're going to get close, but not necessarily more. It's all going to depend on your years of service and experience. U where you fall in that range.

[00:48:06]If you, our goal is to get every employee to midpoint by year seven. If you have 25 years of experience and versus someone that has eight year experience, our goal is to get everybody to midpoint because uh there's no way for us to to to afford the additional cost. Plus, I mean, we're talking some uh those long long long-term employees are looking at 20 plus percent increases right now.

[00:48:36]That's because uh they've worked here for so long and they and over the time they haven't kept up with market uh over that long that long term u of employment and um just kind of feedback what Todd said you know this is our first pay study with this council so um there may you know miscommunication on expectations of what m you were going to see where Todd worked previously and where I've worked previously, the norm was to present the council with the big picture numbers and how it fit in the budget. Um, not to go so detailed as to each individual employee. So, um, I'm glad we're, you know, talking about this and figuring that stuff out to >> I think the hard part for us was the hourly employees because I know department heads are a lot of times really taken care of because they do make more and then when you do an across the board adjustment, they see huge jumps and your hourlies don't see a lot.

[00:49:37]So, we want to make sure, you know, we're not cutting their hours, cutting their pay, you want to make sure we're, you know, looking after everyone, especially the ones who do the the real heavy lifting. I mean, because those those guys are doing some that that's some serious work they're doing out there. I'm not saying everybody doesn't, but that's I just want to make sure that we're treating everyone fairly the way they should be.

[00:49:57]>> Sure. And and the way the math works, um it's hard to wrap your head around this, but there's some employees in our pay study that no matter whether they work a 35h hour week or 40hour week, they're still just going to get 3%. So, they can be maybe making 3% more working 40 hours or they make 3% more working 35 hours.

[00:50:16]So, so the for so council's got to realize it's not just the salary that we are responsible for paying for. The reason why the numbers are so huge is because when you multiply it out for, you know, for Spike and Social Security and retirement and all that stuff, it's not just the salary that that we're looking at when we're talking about the savings and how much more it's going to cost. I mean, um, retirement right now 16% >> a little >> over 16.

[00:50:51]>> So, um, by cutting those those hours, that 16% an hour that the town's realizing that the employee, it doesn't affect them one way or the other, right?

[00:51:02]So, I just want to make sure that council and the people watching are are aware it's not just the salaries that we're looking at. It's all the benefits that we are mandated by state law to pay for such as retirement and social security and stuff of that nature. And all that is based off of their base pay.

[00:51:21]So, uh that's where a lot of this cost is coming in in into play. It's not just the salaries, it's the the added uh additions onto that. I mean, at the end of the day, and I've said this before, and I hate saying this, but it's the truth. At the end of the day, it's a mathematical equation. It's just how we plug in the numbers to get to that end of it.

[00:51:46]>> So, I know we talked in the retreat about no overtime, but we have over $45,000 budgeted for overtime.

[00:51:53]>> And I don't know, uh I think what we was talking about is when I said overtime, it will give you a buffer before they hit the 40 hours. So if you have 35 hours and you have to work and you get called back out and you only work four four hours, you don't get to that 40 hours. So when I said that I was talking about it's going to drastically reduce the amount of overtime that we have to pay because and some employees will most employees will not get overtime because they will not get now if we have 29 water leaks in a winter. I mean there's nothing we can do about that. I and I understand what you're saying, but I'm looking at the budget that I was given on again exhibit 5 and it's it's not drastically reduced. That's why that's why I'm questioning it.

[00:52:39]>> Well, again, uh we pride ourselves on on bringing the few amount of budget amendments to this council as we possibly can. And I've said that this is a pilot program. We're not 100% sure how it's going to work. We didn't want to cut the budget overtime numbers.

[00:52:59]And then we have a bad winter or a bad summer and we have a bunch of water leaks. We have a bunch of callback pays.

[00:53:04]We have, you know, some major things going with police and fire that we have to bring. We we we need that flexibility until we make until we run through a year or two of this to make sure how it works and how it's going to be implemented.

[00:53:18]>> Again, I think that's just part of the clarity. Sorry about that.

[00:53:21]>> And and so we're on camera. I just want to make sure we're clear.

[00:53:25]If an employee hits 40 hours, we have to pay overtime. It's a federal. So I want I don't want everybody thinking that we're not following >> no regulations.

[00:53:34]>> I realize that that's why we're taking it down to 35 and that that's the buffer, but that's what I'm saying. I just >> So between 35 and 40 would be straight pay.

[00:53:41]>> Once they hit 40, it would be and there will be overtime. I mean like to said it happened. So, we had to account for that in the budget as if they were going to work the same amount of hours if there was a water leak. Or just because we're we would look at going to 35 hours doesn't mean um if there's a water leak, nobody shows up, right? So, >> I realize that. I'm just saying it's not a significant decrease from last year to this year.

[00:54:04]>> That's why that's why I'm questioning it. Y >> well I was just going to say a while ago it was kind of stated that overtime was not going to be allowed but I was going to make the point though y'all have said it if they reach that point it's going to be allowed it has to be allowed. So we we're on on the same page.

[00:54:23]>> So I would just encourage everybody up here. I think that there's some gray area. I I just don't know how you can push a budget through without having exact numbers. We don't know how exactly how people are going to be paid and if it is it fair to have you know our hourly workers broken down to only 35 hours a week.

[00:54:47]>> I I just I don't know.

[00:54:50]>> And then again >> and then again with the the building you know um I know that you're meeting with the LGC tomorrow and that's why we had to have this meeting today. Um it's I realize that time is of the essence, but at the same time, we don't have the full picture of what that's going to look like um for pricing out the public safety building. And I just want to be able to tell the people of this town approximately what it's going to look like next year on when they get their tax bill because it doesn't look like it's going to be able to be paid for as a whole because it's not $10 million. It's it's only growing quite fast.

[00:55:36][snorts] >> Yeah. And to to expand upon your point, why we're meeting today before our LGC meeting tomorrow is because LGC, they want a game plan of what the council is planning to do before they even consider putting us on the agenda to approve that in August. So, it takes that long to get on their agenda. So that's why it's [snorts] important to get direction is what we're because if we go in there and just tell them, well, we're kind of wishy-washy, they're not going to really be willing to work with us at all. So we've got first try on board and they're they're working through the numbers. LGC has the model. They've looked at it.

[00:56:18]They looked at our plan. So it's kind of where we're at right now with that. The last model I saw from first tryon was $10 million 25% tax increase from Burke County next year was needed and that's all I saw. I didn't see anything after that. So if there's another one, I'd love to see it moving forward with the 10.8 or the 11.2 because I know that I think it was 2032 we were going to be in the red.

[00:56:44]>> Yeah.

[00:56:45]>> So I can only imagine that if it's if the number's gone up then we're going to be in trouble before 2032. So, >> and and if you know if we if council decides to hold off, if that's one of the options and we're back to here at this time next year, you know, with construction costs the way they are, I'm afraid that we could be at 12 and a half or 13 million at that point. Not to try to make everybody, you know, skittish about it, but it's the the reality and the environment we're in. So, that's why we're trying to get a jump on it now to >> I'm just asking for what it's going to cost. That's what I'd like to I just want to know what the building what >> I'd like to know too.

[00:57:20]>> Anybody should be able to tell us that.

[00:57:22]Again, I don't write a blank check.

[00:57:24]>> Yeah. And before any loans approved or anything like that, all those numbers will be hard and fast and then black and white and council will vote on that as far and also as far as the long terms and council votes on all that. Uh we're hoping to have all that done u the hard numbers in June, the banks and all that stuff by the end of July. and present it to council in August. If and that's the game plan that we've been operating on.

[00:57:53]If that has changed, we need we kind of need to know today. U so the last thing we want to do is go before the LGC and get kind of the pre-approval and then have to call them and tell them that we've changed our lines.

[00:58:09]So we've been oper like I said we just been operating under that assumption. If that assumption was incorrect, I just need to I just need to know.

[00:58:21]>> I've been going off of first tryons what they told us a month ago and until this week I was told 10.8. So >> or last Monday, pardon me.

[00:58:30]>> And and I will add there's nothing wrong with telling LGC to hold off if we need to do that. But just just realize there's consequences if we do so. It will delay everything. It will delay our guarantee maximum price through Dr. Reynolds and getting on the LGC agenda for we most likely won't go on their August agenda. So, I just want to make everybody aware this is not a do or die situation with the LGC, but it would just delay things if we were to do that.

[00:58:57]>> And the 10.8 is is the not to exceed the loan value. Um, it could come in at 10.2. It could come in at we don't know.

[00:59:07]Uh, I feel very confident that it's going to come in somewhere between 10.2 and 11.2.

[00:59:14]And there's no way we can get those numbers before the 28th.

[00:59:20]>> No, ma'am. They're still working on >> So, we'll be more than likely voting.

[00:59:24]>> You got to realize we're asking a contractor and all their subs, if you've ever done anything with construction or know or remodeled your house or anything, we're asking contractors to give us a number. For for example, a plumbing contractor, they're asking a plumbing contractor to give them a number in June and they might not be able to do the work until next March, but they've got to stay firm to the number they give us in June. That's hard for them. So, >> it's hard for me to up the taxes 13 and a half cent and not know how much I'm actually gunning for because I feel like that is a it is a blank check. It's saying we did this for you guys. now you can, you know, give it to us. Good. Um, so that's what I'm concerned about. Um, because it's that there's a lot of I I'll let the citizens hear today. I've considered things today and I think that uh we'll just hold off right now. I have a lot of questions I can ask an email and get it out there. Did you have anything else?

[01:00:30]>> There'll be, you know, public discussion on the 28th. If anybody wants to come and speak, I encourage you to do so. I know that there's um individuals that are unhappy and I I don't mean to make anyone unhappy. I just have questions and I feel that I need to ask those questions for the people of our town.

[01:00:51]>> Do you have any revisions at this time?

[01:00:55]>> Um well, I'm I'm asking the questions for the pay study and I'd like to know what the building is going to cost. That that that's my two questions. Those are the things we are considering. We need we need to know so we know what to cut. So I mean if there's no I mean do you have any other questions that we need to address today or do you have any cuts that you would like to suggest? [snorts] >> Well, we talked in the retreat about the 4th of July being on the 4th of July. You said it costs between 60 and $70,000 to have it on that exact day.

[01:01:37]>> That's a start.

[01:01:39]Okay.

[01:01:40]>> How much does Santa cost to have I I was told that it's somewhere around $6,000.

[01:01:45]Do we really have to have somebody sit there for $6,000?

[01:01:49]>> So, that was the cost that we spend on all the floats, but we also sell those floats to recoup some of that money. I uh it's not just Santa Claus. is the >> but see that's the conversation that needs to be had and I was just asked what are we going to cut and so I'm trying to have conversations >> and we never I I would ask far as consideration that in coming years we try to do more like I believe it's Morgan actually has the line items it's not just a brushover they actually have it broken down so council can see what is bringing in the most what is not so we can maybe recommend do we need that do we not because we don't I I could not tell you what you know miscellaneous what there's miscellaneous on some of this and we don't know what that is. Um so we need staff to maybe 13 cent is a lot. It's 31% tax hike and and we would appreciate it if staff would say there are things we could do to to bring that down. Um because our citizens are expecting that. You guys I know that Todd you have to stand up for your employees. We have been charged with the duty of standing up for 5,000 people. We've been put in this position and I for one was put here by people who were not for taxes going up. So I'm I have to stand on that because that's how I sleep at night. Um whether anyone else can sleep that way or whatever. Um I have to know that what I did in my heart was right for the people that I serve.

[01:03:20]So I understand staff has their thought.

[01:03:22]I get that and I appreciate what you do.

[01:03:25]It's it's a lot. Appreciate what you do.

[01:03:28]Um but I do think we need to take more than just staff into consideration.

[01:03:32]Sometimes we've got to also take in, you know, the 5,000 people who live here that we have to answer to. Um because you guys don't get all those. And I know you say turn them to you for questions.

[01:03:41]No, they come to us with the questions and they do want to know why we did not live stream the budget retreat. That just really blocks the, you know, the parents. It looks like we're not being transparent. Um, and there's a lot of questions as far as the budget, you know, what are y'all doing to cut things? Well, I I don't know what can be cut and we never get a chance to sit in a group. We didn't get a chance this year to sit and talk like this except for one day. Okay. And I know I'm going to be shut up because it's not considering the budget, but [laughter] >> well, [clears throat] last week when Todd had mentioned that we did not have enough money to buy ink for our town clerk, that resonated with people and it made people call me.

[01:04:24]>> Yeah.

[01:04:24]>> So, it was probably not the best thing to say because now I'm having people say, "How are we going to go and afford a 10 plus million dollar building, but we can't buy ink for our town clerk?"

[01:04:35]Yeah, that was I was just trying to prove the point that over the last several years, the council before you and the staff before me has has cut the budgets significantly and we're down to not bare bones, but we're getting pretty close. I mean, there are some things that we could cut, but there but services that we offer or events that we offer or programs that we offer. It's not, you know, I mean, there's not a whole lot of there's hardly any if there's any fluff, I haven't found it. How about that?

[01:05:18]>> Uh, at this time, can I uh engage in active debate? I'm going to transfer my responsibilities to Mayor Pro Tim at this time um to Councilwoman Ward. Uh I'm going to address something. You've been on this council for three years.

[01:05:37]Uh you know the budget more than Rataba over there. You did not show up at the the mini budget meeting. You asked very little questions during the public forum.

[01:05:49]>> What was the mini budget? Hold on a second. Wait, wait just a second. You did not you vaguely said anything during the public comments at at the budget retreat. I do recall that Mr. Herms asked specifically on two particular issues. Two particular issues. Do you want to keep fluoride? I need to know in the budget budget, do we want to go forward with the with the with the fluoride? You said nothing.

[01:06:17]He also asked at the same time, what what about the public safety facility?

[01:06:23]What say you? You said nothing. You you tacid agreement. What is he supposed to do other than present this budget as it is? Hold on. Wait, wait. I'm not finished. I am not finished. You can have your say, but hold on >> a second, >> ma'am. I'm just saying at least from this side all the way to him, they have asked Todd, they've asked Bo, they've asked questions. Miss Rataba has asked as has called Todd and called Bo and called myself. Miss Zimmerman has called me, called Bo, called Todd.

[01:06:59]Miss Lman has called >> to confer with the attorney. Sir, sir, I'm calling out sir. Sir, sir, sir, you have Excuse me. Excuse me. You can silence yourself.

[01:07:09]>> You can silence yourself.

[01:07:12]>> No, sir. This I'm sorry, sir. You do not have >> abuse a council member.

[01:07:16]>> No, sir. Sir, I'm point I'm sorry.

[01:07:23]>> Don't make me remove.

[01:07:33]There's going to be a lot more of that when the taxes are up 51% next year.

[01:07:37]>> But we're what I'm saying is we're at the 11th hour. If you talk about programmatic cuts of nature of what you're talking about to offset the public safety building, that is something that's going to have to come in the nature of next year because you're talking about a programmatic cut and I will say this specifically out loud. If you're talking program, if you want to cut tourism, that's a programmatic cut we're talking about.

[01:08:00]You need to be that needs to be thought through the day after. If you sit there and say we want to do that, you need to think of the consequences of the impacts on the town, not only the day after, but 5 10 years down the road. How does that change the landscape of the town of Valdis? If you cut out tourism, I mean the rec center, you need to you need to be bold and know what the impacts of that's going to be going forward. You can't sit there at the 11th hour and say we want to cut tourism or we want to cut rec center to get this Humpty Dumpty back in. We have we have debated this issue. We've come to this point and I if if we don't if we the consequences of not paying for the pay study in any form, form or fashion or the public safety building, there's going to be uh consequences beyond we can unravel.

[01:08:54]And I just want the town to understand that.

[01:08:57]>> Uh consequences, Mr. mayor you talking about >> if if we do not p if we do not get the pay study up for the fire and police if we do not get the public safety building.

[01:09:15]It would send a signal to our public to our police and fire that we don't value them and that the next thing the next step would take is you be informing basically Burke County to say we would orderly want to transfer the responsibilities of the power fire and police to Burke County and you need to know the implications of what you're talking about. These are serious times. I understand that. I've been on the spear both in my military career and also my public career. And I know what it means to cut. I do.

[01:09:48]I was tasked with that from a presidential appointee. I know what it means to cut and you don't get that back.

[01:09:56]I understand. I understand where we are.

[01:10:04]I'm compassionate for this town. I understand. We have two vowes right here. I I think it's just we're Let's get this out in the open right now. I think it's time to just pull the skin back. There are two Valdis right now.

[01:10:16]Those who grew up here that have grown and seen that what's taking place in Valdis with with the textiles vacating and all this, they love this town, but they they're unwilling at some point to say we're unwilling to pay for these services. Then we have these and when they pass on, they're not passing it on to their kids. People are moving in here from Texas, Florida, all points north,southeast, and the west. And when they come here, we've heard overwhelmingly, we love what Valde offers, and we're willing to pay for that. How do we find that balance? And that's what this council has changed challenged to do, and I apologize for maint.

[01:10:55]We're going to have hard challenges coming this next year. Don't let this budget, what we're talking about here, fool you. What what the challenges going forward is. there they're going to be there going to be some significant cuts that's going to have to be made in other areas. Public safety is a need.

[01:11:13]Keep that in mind. Public safety is a need.

[01:11:17]Elderly that move here, people that move here, the one of the main things they look at, Google search it yourself. What did they say? They want a safe town.

[01:11:27]They need safety. We're old. 70% of the po the fire department 70% of the fire department calls are calling for falls and breaks and urgent issues. When you hear that firetruck going out, 70% of that time that firetruck is taking care of somebody.

[01:11:43]They need to know that. So what is it values that you're willing there's expectations and a willingness to pay?

[01:11:50]We've got we've got right now we've got a condemned building that we've got fire department working out of a mobile trailer. We've got police occupying the front side of this building. We've had to close this building down three times in the last year because of safety issues.

[01:12:06]We had we had our planner meet somebody at the door, one of these cipher lock doors, thinking it was just an ordinary citizen come in to want to file a permit. This guy has a felon and so I'm here to turn myself in to a town planner.

[01:12:24]We we also had our correct me if I'm wrong Bo were you not were one of our staff down there at the copier room where we had somebody handcuffed and we're have to try oper do town operations with a police subject in in custody in a copier room we cannot operate that way folks let's be blunt I think it's time to be brutally honest I think I've talked to the couple over here privately we need to start talking honesty if you don't want to pay for it. All right, we understand that. But you understand the consequences that will come thereafter.

[01:13:02]>> Do I have permission to speak?

[01:13:03]>> Yes, ma'am. You do.

[01:13:05]>> First of all, the budget meeting I missed was due to my child having a medical emergency that I had to take care of. So, I chose to be a mother and I let everyone know I would not be there. So, that is where I was for that one. Secondly, I did not ask questions in the budget retreat because we had literally seven hours to go through everything. And if you had have seen that video, which you did not get to see because it was not live streamed. And I know some people don't prefer to see live stream, but we have several citizens who are quite upset about that.

[01:13:38]The fact of the matter is is I can't ask questions. I have to get that information somehow to citizens so they can inform me. Okay, that's not what I want to do. that's not the direction we see our town going. I do listen to the people who got me in this position. I do listen to the citizens in my neighborhood who come up to me and say we cannot afford this. I'm not saying the public safety building. I'm saying have we absolutely looked at everything.

[01:14:05]I know we have to have our police. I know we have to have our fire. That is a mute moot point at this time. I'm saying we have other things that may need to be looked into. We may not have a lot of fun right now, but to get our public safety, we're going to have to we have to make some type of choices. And when I go to staff and and suggest things or go to anyone and suggest things, it's like running around in circles trying to get an answer because I'm not a psy and I don't say, "Oh, I'll just agree with everything you say because you say it."

[01:14:36]I want to look into it and get my own opinions and get and and do my own homework and see. 13 cent is a lot.

[01:14:44]There are people who cannot afford it especially on the with right behind it in 27 and you guys hear me now. There is a reval coming and the reason everybody raised hell praise hell last time was because there was a reval that caused everything to shoot up. It's going to happen again. There will be a 51% basically a 51% tax hike by the reval next year. Can we afford that without looking? I'm not saying public safety.

[01:15:18]Do not even go to public safety because you know how I feel about that. I am I stand behind our police and our firefighters, but there are other things in this town that we may have to look at and say maybe that's not what we need right now. Maybe we need to look at things like do we need Fletcher Field?

[01:15:35]Do we need Tiger Gym? Those are things that have been in this town for years. I get it. But it's time that we look at it and say, are we just propping up things that are no longer useful for our town?

[01:15:47]>> I understand that.

[01:15:48]>> That's that's all I know.

[01:15:49]>> I understand that. And that and that's where we're trying to come to. These are these are the hard discussions that we're having to have, >> but we're at the 11th hour. If you're talking if we're going to if you say that you're for the public safety building, there is no way. Correct me if I'm wrong, Todd and Bo. There's no way in this budget that we can go forward with that in any measurable fact without cutting a program. Is that correct?

[01:16:18]I don't my personal opinion, my professional opinion, I don't think the LGC approves our loan without a long-term plan.

[01:16:31]We have been operating under the assumption of the tax increase, not program cuts. I don't think we can come up with a list of cuts long enough and big enough to satisfy the LGC at this time. If that's something council wants, we need need to realize that we need to delay other things until we get that lined up.

[01:16:57]>> I do not think we need to. I I personally will not be able to vote on that until I see hard numbers. Just so everyone knows, until I see how much a public safety building will be, I am not going to be okay with approving a tax increase.

[01:17:12]>> Can I have can I have responsibility back? You don't need to mention that.

[01:17:16]>> Um I give responsibility back to the mayor.

[01:17:19]>> Okay. At this time, I uh Is there a motion on the table?

[01:17:29]I make a motion to adjurnn.

[01:17:34]>> Is there a second?

[01:17:37]>> Second.

[01:17:39]Meeting a journal.