Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders - 05/05/26

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]WTN Newslink. I'm Teresa Tomio from Catholic Connection. The Pope meeting yesterday with members of Catholic Charities USA. He said, "It is true that love for our neighbor is tangible proof of the authenticity of our love for God.

[00:00:13]Yet, it is also the case that authentically loving our neighbor entails offering them the possibility of a true encounter with God." Your work, he said, with the less fortunate continues to provide a privileged opportunity to share the joy of the resurrection. And New Mexico wants Meta and its social media platforms declared a public nuisance. The state also wants a company to pay 3.7 billion while making their products safer for children. Meta, for its part, is now threatening to cut access to its social media platforms in New Mexico. For more news of the Catholic perspective, visit ewtnnews.com.

[00:00:47]I'm Terresa Tomio and Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders starts now.

[00:00:56]What's stopping you from becoming a Catholic?

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[00:01:17]>> This is Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.

[00:01:25]>> Hey everybody, welcome again to Call to Communion. We are live on this Tuesday afternoon here on EWTN radio. This program is for our non-atholic brothers and sisters, those of you who have questions about the Catholic faith. What a great resource this is for you to get those questions answered. Here's our phone number, 833288 EWTN. You can call or text 833-288-3986.

[00:01:51]If you're listening to us outside North America, please dial 1 and then 2052712985.

[00:01:59]You can also uh if you wish send us an email.com.

[00:02:05]Pedro Keelles, our producer. Matt Kabinsky handling phone screening. Ace McKay is handling social media. He's going to keep an eye on things there.

[00:02:13]I'm Tom Price. Very glad to be back with Dr. Dr. David Anders.

[00:02:16]>> Tom, it's great to have you back.

[00:02:18]>> You know, I think I still remember how to do this.

[00:02:20]>> I should hope so.

[00:02:21]>> I wanted to keep kind of a low profile.

[00:02:23]Um, but I can I can say it now. My sweet wife Adrienne and I just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary >> and uh to mark that occasion, we visited Italy.

[00:02:34]>> Congrats.

[00:02:35]>> We had a great time. We visited with uh Terresa Tomio there and u had dinner with her in a Cisi.

[00:02:42]>> That had to be nice, >> you know. It was just fantastic. Um, got together with Jeff Burson, formerly of the EWTN radio family. I won't go into all the details, but uh, very glad to be back with you, my friend.

[00:02:54]>> What was the temperature like?

[00:02:56]>> It was very mild. It was like the low7s.

[00:03:00]>> We had one afternoon with like maybe a half hour of rain and then perfect, just perfect the whole time and got to go to mass at uh, St. Peter's Basilica. So, >> very happy about all that. But we're going to lead off today uh with an email from uh Sam who says, "Why in the gospel accounts do people not recognize the risen Lord?" In the gospel from Luke on Sunday, it said their eyes were prevented from seeing him. Also, in John's account, Peter didn't recognize him on the shore either. What's up with that?

[00:03:34]>> Yeah. So I think that with Luke's account especially on the of the road to Emmas that you you have to you have to understand the significance of this within the literary structure of the gospel. Um because we do find that these disciples come to recognize Jesus after he has opened the scriptures to them.

[00:03:55]Their hearts are burning within them.

[00:03:57]They sit down to a meal. Jesus breaks bread and their eyes are opened and then he vanishes from their sight.

[00:04:02]>> Yeah. And it's it it it's not much of a stretch and most interpreters have come to the same conclusion to see that this is Luke's literary device for suggesting that the way we find the presence of the risen Lord today in our midst is in uh the opening up of the word and the breaking of the bread. In other words, in the eukaristic assembly. So this is a this is a literary allegorical way of pointing to the mass as the location where we encounter the risen Lord. And the note of him being not recognizable in the flesh is highly relevant to the mass because of course if you walk in to the mass without the eyes of faith, you're not going to recognize Christ.

[00:04:44]>> Oh yeah. Okay. We do appreciate that.

[00:04:47]Thank you so much Sam for your email.

[00:04:49]Here's a little at a boy email. This is from Steven who says, "Dr. Anders, I am one of those Catholics who until your recent program erroneously believed the presence to be a representation, a representation of Christ's sacrifice on the cross." I don't believe that was ever taught to me. It's simply how I understood it. Thank you for enlightening me. That little piece of information makes my reception of the Blessed Sacrament so much more rich and meaningful. I was on unaware of St. Thomas's teaching on this, but I will now acquaint myself with it. Again, thank you from Stephen.

[00:05:26]>> Yeah, I really appreciate that. So, just so that the listeners who hear this will know what we're talking about, a question that often comes up on the show, uh most Catholics understand that the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus. They don't have a good sense of how the Eucharist relates to the events of Calvary. And there are a lot of false ideas floating around out there. But the explanation is found within the language of the mass itself when the priest says of the mass that it is the memorial of Christ's sacrifice.

[00:05:57]And so the explicit teaching of the church and you you do find it in St. Thomas Aquinus but you find it in the dogmatic teaching of the church as well is that through the double consecration of bread and wine, the Eucharist though containing the true body and blood of Christ is also a symbol. It's it's not one or the other. It's both things. It's the body and blood of Christ present in the Eucharistic species, but in such a way that the double consecration of bread and wine symbolize the events of Calvary, namely the separation of his body from blood that took place 2,000 years ago. Now, in the in the altar of of the mass, there is no bloody immulation. Christ is not killed. So, it's merely the memorial of his death that happened 2,000 years ago. We're not killing him again. Um and it's because of that connection that the present mass that we celebrate has the character of a propitiatory offering or a sacrifice. Uh not a bloody emilation of a victim, but the presentation of a live victim, namely Jesus resurrected, glorified in heaven who's presented on the altar, but in such a fashion as to recall or memorialize what happened 2,000 years ago. There's one other aspect of the connection between Calvary and the Mass, and that is that not only does it memorialize what happened 2,000 years ago, but it also is the channel by which we access the graces that Christ won for us. So, the power of Christ's sacrifice is made present as well in a fashion to sanctify us and make us holy and help us conform our lives to the model of his sacrifice. Stephen, thanks so much for your email before we go to the phones.

[00:07:21]One more quick one. This is from um Justin who says, "Is it okay for Roman Catholics to venerate and ask for prayers from Greek Orthodox saints? I'm thinking in particular about St. Nectario of the movie Man of God. Thanks for your time."

[00:07:37]>> Yeah, thank you. So, when it comes to your private devotion, uh there really are very few limits in terms of, you know, whose example you want to imitate or whose intercession you want to seek. Um and uh and so you know I'll give you an example in my own life. Uh I had a Baptist grandfather who was a man of great integrity and faith who I believed to be in heaven. Now he's not a canonized saint. I can't prove that he's in heaven.

[00:08:03]>> Um and and I certainly could him put could not put him forward uh put his cause forward for canonization in the Catholic Church. He would never be canonized because he didn't die a Catholic.

[00:08:13]>> But the church says it's quite possible that he's in heaven. And you know I know him to be a man of holiness. And so I in faith ask ask for his intercession. What I can't do is is recommend him to the public cult of the church. Right? And so when someone is not in Catholic unity um then they're not going to be part of the Catholic lurggical calendar. They're not going to be celebrated publicly in Catholic rights. But privately if you believe they were a holy person united to God by faith, you can certainly seek their intercession and by all means follow virtue wherever you find it.

[00:08:41]Justin, thanks so much for your email.

[00:08:42]Well, hey, lines are open for you right now at 833-288 EWTN. Call or text 833288-3986.

[00:08:51]Back in a moment with more call to communion.

[00:08:55]Let the blessed sacrament nourish your soul with a free Mother Angelica devotional card with Medallion and be inspired by her bold faith and unwavering trust in God. It's available at EWTN mission.com/modallioncard.

[00:09:11]This is a digital moment with Sandra McDev. Did you know there is a very early reference to Jesus being God outside the Bible? Archaeologists in Israel uncovered a mosaic under the Megiddino prison in 2005. The mosaic was in the earliest Christian church yet to be discovered. Pottery and coins date the church to 230 AD, 100 years before the Council of Nika. The mosaic spans 580 square ft and reads to God Jesus Christ unquote. Proof Jesus was thought to be more than a mere prophet in the early church. The mosaic was put on temporary display at the Museum of the Bible in Washington DC. The mosaic will be permanently displayed at the founding site at Medico, Israel. I'm Senator McDev for EWTN Radio.

[00:10:10]On the next Beacon of Truth, talking more about how does Jesus accompany you.

[00:10:14]>> I'm Deacon Harold Burke Civers and I invite you to join me for Beacon of Truth.

[00:10:20]>> Live truth, live catholic.

[00:10:23]>> This is EWTN Radio.

[00:10:30]>> It is called Communion with Dr. David Anders and we are live on this Tuesday afternoon waiting for your phone calls at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:10:44]You know EWTN offers a variety of prayers for all of your spiritual needs.

[00:10:48]And you can find them right now go by going to EWTN.com/pray.

[00:10:55]EWTN.com pray. All right, let's see here. We got a text from uh Chris who says, "Does the Bible prove Friday crucifixion?"

[00:11:08]Um, yes. So, there's really not a dispute about crucifixion. There there's a dispute in the scriptures about when um when the when the Lord's supper was, when the when the institution of the Eucharist was relative to the death of Christ. Um but um yeah well John yeah John's chronology is different from the synoptics and different biblical scholars have ways of handling that. So does it prove it? I mean it suggests it.

[00:11:36]>> Yeah, you know.

[00:11:37]>> Yeah. All right. Very good. Thank you for that. Uh you can also u if you want to text us do that by dialing 833288 EWTN. Uh call or text 833-2883986.

[00:11:51]Here's an email from Greg in New Haven, Connecticut. He says one of the priests on EWTN during his homaly recently indicated that according to the catechism the living magisterium including the pope and his bishops are entrusted with the authority to interpret scripture and tradition. I guess he meant to say as part of their official inspired documents versus when they just give their opinions. Even so, assuming we just focus on the official interpretations, he indicated these would become official teachings of the church and all Catholics would be required to adhere to them, even if they contradicted something said by a previous pope in one of his official proclamations or interpretations. So, Dr. Anders, can you help expand on this and explain further just how it works?

[00:12:40]I'm surprised to hear that one magisterium or pope can erase the teachings of a prior pope. Thanks, Greg in New Haven.

[00:12:47]>> Yeah, I thank you. I think there's I appreciate the question. I think there's some misunderstanding here. Yeah.

[00:12:52]>> So, first of all, let me just get at the role of the magisterium in general, right? and and in discussions with Protestants, it often tends to boil down to questions of biblical interpretation.

[00:13:04]But that's an artificial way of construing the authority of the magisterium because Catholic life and Catholic theology is not simply a matter of interpreting the Bible. I think a better way of putting it is that the magisterium has the job of handing on the deposit of faith. That's that's a more precise way of putting it of which the Bible is a part and and occasionally of clarifying points of dogma and when and only when the magisterium of the church in one of its organs of infallibility proclaims something dogmatically is it guaranteed to be free from error or infallible. And that basically is when an ecumenical council or when a pope on his own authority says something rather like the following. I infallibly define. Right? And it happens very very rarely. And when that happens the church is preserved from error in its teaching. Um now the reason I say it's let's not talk about biblical interpretation per se is because the the dogmatic statements are rarely construed as interpretations of biblical passages right I mean you don't find like very infrequently I can't think of an example where a pope or a council says we are now going to give you the authoritative interpretation of this text that that just doesn't happen like you're not there's no author are there's no magisterial document that says here's the way you have to read Romans chapter 4 for example right now um there may be a dogma that definitely influences the way you read Romans chapter 4 but there's not it's not biblical interpretion per se it's like this is what Christians believe and like there's a whole host of reasons why Christians may believe that some of them scriptural some of them historical traditional lurggical etc here's what you have to believe as a Catholic now as an exeet someone whose job is interpreting the Bible. Catholics are actually given a tremendous amount of leeway. And so there's nothing at all unatholic about See, Tom and I both look at a passage of scripture and Tom says, "I think it means this." And I say, "I think it means that." And we completely disagree. And then we shake hands and go to mass together. Like that's that's completely legitimate within a Catholic framework. What we're not going to do is say, "Well, I think the Trinity means this and I think the Trinity means that." No, because the church has defined that for us. has told us exactly what the trinity is and what we're to hold about it. Whether or not we construe that doctrine from the Bible in the same way. In other words, uh and this happens on this show, like sometimes people say, "Give me biblical evidence for purgatory." And I've had folks tell me over the years, Andrew, we notice that you never mention First Corinthians 3. Lots of Catholics like to point to that passage in Proof of the Doctrine of Purgatory. I don't think that works. So, I don't ever reference that text in that context. I just don't think it's about purgatory. I still believe in purgatory because the church says so. You follow what I'm saying? So, it's just that the get away from the biblical interpret business for a minute. Right? When the church teaches something infallibly, you have to hold it and they're not going to contradict a previous pope.

[00:16:06]>> But the the the the purview of the magisterium doesn't stop there. So, like right now, I am involved not as a member of the magisterium. I'm involved in the process of handing on the deposit of faith as a lay person and a radio host, right? My job is to help try and expound and explain the Catholic faith. I do this day in and day out, but in a non-authoritative way. Um, popes and bishops and priests do that all the time, too. They get up and preach homalies. U, they write encyclicals.

[00:16:33]They put out apostolic exhortations and apostolic letters and they make they make interventions in the credential order into politics and public policy and international policy. and they're always understanding, applying, and teaching the Catholic faith in a public way. That is their job description. The difference between a pope doing that in some dumb jerk radio host is that you don't have to listen to me, right? When the pope does it, he may not be speaking infallibly, but he speaks authoritatively because he is, as it were, the official spokesman for the Catholic point of view. Right. Right.

[00:17:06]And so even if he makes a mistake, what you can do, um, you treat that mistake very differently than you would treat it when I make some stupid mistake, right?

[00:17:16]I mean, to me, you can go, Andrew, you're an idiot. Get out of the air. You should get off the air. Go away. We don't like you. Right? If the Pope does it, you're very careful about that.

[00:17:24]You're very careful to form the judgment that he's made a mistake. you give what's called a religious submission of mind and will which is basically give the pope the benefit of the doubt and to recognize that even when you think he got it wrong that he's the spokesman for the church in an official capacity that you're not right so you know I go to homalies in myical Catholic parish and the priest gets up and preaches a homaly and I think that was a good homaly sometimes that priest gets up and preaches the homaly and I think that was the stupidest homaly I've ever heard in my entire life I went to a church one time I will not tell you where it was not in my dasis I kid you Not I kid you not. The homaly consisted in commentary on the color of the priest's socks and a recitation of the holy week mass schedule. Wow. That was the content of the homaly. And I was like bad homaly, right? But because of the religious submission of mind and will, I I restrained myself from the temptation to stand up and boo. Right. Had a boy. I didn't do that. I uh I actually did boo once. I'm not going to tell you where. I did go to a Catholic gathering, large public gathering of lots of Catholic catechists.

[00:18:33]>> Yeah.

[00:18:33]>> And somebody who was not a priest or a bishop stood up and um and uh and put down apologetics as an enterprise.

[00:18:43]>> What? Yeah. They got I'm just telling you. And I went I was the only person in the audience and I went boo.

[00:18:51]And at the very same gathering, it was really kind of ironic, right? The very same people that were that were like putting down apologetics, they absolutely went nuts and lionized and clapped and came out of their seats for Bishop Robert Baron.

[00:19:02]>> How about that?

[00:19:03]>> Who was like an apologist of the of like par excellence. I was like, "These people are inconsistent, you know, so I don't have to listen to them."

[00:19:10]>> That is so funny. Wow. Appreciate that.

[00:19:12]And Greg in New Haven, thanks so much for your email. If you're ready now, let's go to the phones at 833288 EWTN. Here is Chris in Ohio to lead things off. Chris listening to SiriusXM channel 130. Hey Chris, what's on your mind today?

[00:19:28]>> I would like to know um on the second coming is is that when the sheep and the goats will be separated? That's where the bat the people going to heaven and the people going to hell. Right.

[00:19:43]>> That is exactly right. That's the Catholic teaching that when Christ comes back at the end of time, you will have the general judgment when Christ pronounces in a public and authoritative way on uh on souls and who is welcome into the kingdom of his father and who's excluded and he lays off the criteria in Matthew chapter 25. That's exactly right. Well, there you go, Chris. Thanks so much for your call. That opens up a line for you at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:20:14]called to communion on this Tuesday afternoon. We're live here on EWTN radio. We're going to a text now from Stan who says um oh Stan is listening to us on YouTube. Stan says so many of the psalms in the liturgy of the hours are dark psalms about suffering. Is this design intentional? And if so, why is that?

[00:20:34]>> Oh yeah, absolutely. It's very much intentional. It's very much intentional.

[00:20:39]Um uh so the Christian life is replete with suffering.

[00:20:45]It is also even even full of the spiritual suffering of the soul. The kind that doubts the benevolence and the presence of God. The the felt sense of God's absence from you, right? The the disillusionment, the loss of of felt hope. um uh the loss of affect, the loss of encouragement, the sense of alienation and fear. All these things can overcome the soul who has the virtue of faith. And the the mystics write about this. They talk about it as the as a kind of a necessary stage in the spiritual path to help you detach from creatures, from your attachment to creatures and to false idols and false notions and your own ideologies and so forth and to stand utterly naked before God by holding on by faith alone to something that you no longer feel at all in your interior life. And it helps produce well humility and ultimately a great empathy and love other especially for those that suffer and a detachment from yourself and confidence in yourself and it's really a necessary part in the path to holiness and there different types of alienation and grief that the soul goes through but the highest is what John of the Cross describes as the dark night of the soul which does not mean garden variety teenage enst by the way if you were wondering >> and uh and so it's represented in the Psalms. I mean, Psalm 88 is probably the uh the prime example of that where the psalmist says, "You've taken away friend and neighbor and comfort and kingdom and everything in your own presence and I'm sitting here rotting in a cave and you're nowhere around God. Thanks very much. Amen."

[00:22:18]>> And there it is in the Bible. And these words are on Christ's lips. Psalm 22 when he when he says from the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

[00:22:26]Completely identifying with this weward and abandoned humanity. And it's important message to keep in mind because there are strains of Christianity in the world today that are profoundly triumphalistic. You know, become a a Christian, everything will go well for you and you'll you'll be the head and not the tail and you'll be rich and you'll be healthy and all these things will be great and if you pray enough, you'll get what you want, yada yada yada. You'll feel satisfied, your problems will be solved. And there are different versions of this. Some of them are, you know, health, wealth, and very kind of on then consumeristic. Others are more subtle and they they you know offer a kind of um you know maybe intellectual snobbery, a sense of superiority, you know, the confidence that I'm right and everybody else is wrong and maybe I'm poor and suffering physically, but you know, thank God I've got Jesus on my side. All that kind of hubris that can come in and make religious believers so obnoxious to those around them and you've all met people like that. You want to get as far away from them as you can at the party.

[00:23:19]And uh and the Catholic faith says none of that kind of confidence, none of that kind of affect, none of that sensibility has anything to do with holiness, right?

[00:23:28]And um you know, holiness is the guy the the tax collector that says, "Have mercy on me, Lord, a sinner." And yes, >> you know, my one of my key examples of this kind of alienation is the life of Mother Teresa of Kolkata, >> who spent her life trying to manifest to others the love of a God of whose existence she was not certain.

[00:23:48]>> Yeah. you know.

[00:23:49]>> Wow. Hey, thanks so much uh for your text, Stan. Appreciate hearing from you.

[00:23:53]Lines are open right now for you at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:24:01]Here's one that I've never seen before.

[00:24:03]This is from an anonymous emailer. Good afternoon. Love your show. One of the leaders of one of the groups in our church has brought up the possibility of creating a drum circle in our parish. I personally have never heard of this, but after looking it up, I see that it doesn't look very prudent to do this.

[00:24:20]Could Dr. Anders tell us what a drum circle is and if it would be appropriate in a Catholic setting? The person mentioned praise and worship and the spirit being there, but I don't feel like we need drums to have the spirit with us. And uh thank you very much anonymous.

[00:24:36]>> Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate the question. So I I personally don't think there is anything intrinsically immoral about playing the drums and neither does Tom who is an amateur drummer right um nor do I think actually I saw the most magnificent video today in the French news Emanuel Mau the prime minister of France was recently in Armenia >> and um and he they have him they filmed him singing laboam with the prime minister of of Armenia who's on the drums >> really >> and I was Like this is the difference between European politics and America.

[00:25:12]Like this is bizarre stuff.

[00:25:13]>> Start with that. Exactly. Anyway, imagine imagine like you know Trump and Putin doing a duet together. It's just unimaginable. Anyway, so um back to back to basics. Yeah, I don't think there's anything intrinsically immoral about playing the drums and I don't think there's anything intrinsically immoral about playing them in a group. Okay. Um now uh you can take any activity and ascribe to it a kind of spiritual significance that's superstitious. So one of the things that can come out in a drum circle as well as many other forms of human collective endeavor right is this uh this this uh uh you know sort of sense of transcendence of being part of the collective that's greater than yourself. And music has that capacity in a powerful way to make you feel like you're caught up in something above and beyond you.

[00:25:58]>> And you can get into the flow state, sort of lose track of time and lose yourself in self-consciousness. And that's a tremendously positive feeling experience. We all want to have it.

[00:26:07]That's why people mountain climb, you know, it's why they do extreme sports, why they snow ski, they they want to go or while they surf, you know, they go in, they want that they want to catch that buzz of of extreme experience, and it makes them feel fantastic. And I'm all about that. Like, go for it. Just don't call it the Holy Spirit.

[00:26:24]>> Yeah.

[00:26:24]>> And what a lot of the charismatic churches do is they cultivate that kind of collective euphoria and then say, "Well, that's the Holy Spirit moving."

[00:26:32]Well, no, that's that's not the Holy Spirit moving. That's just your collective euphoria from getting in some 60s drum circle.

[00:26:38]>> Yeah. Hey, thanks so much for your email.

[00:26:40]>> If you do it with bell bottoms, it works even better.

[00:26:44]>> Don't forget the tie-dye shirt.

[00:26:45]>> And the tie-dye shirt.

[00:26:46]>> You got to have that. Lots more straight ahead on this edition of Call to Communion. 833288 EWTN. Call now.

[00:26:57]I recently met someone who said she had a sin that she just didn't know how to confess. Just sit down in confession and say it, I told her. And if that's hard, write it down and hand it to the priest.

[00:27:08]He'll take it from there. As I gave that simple advice, it struck me that one of the things we're most criticized for is that our prayer can become too ritualistic as Catholics. Yet, ritual is one of the greatest things about Catholicism. We can just show up and go through the motions and God does the rest. And even if your heart is weak and your mind is distracted, God knows how to do his part. Need spiritual food? Get to mass and God will feed you. Mourning a death? Go to a funeral and God will walk you through your grief. Carrying guilt around, go to confession, speak your sin, and leave a new person. That takes some of the pressure off, doesn't it? This is Chris Stefanic from realife catholic.com on EWTN radio.

[00:27:56]2026 is a jubilee year in recognition of the 800th anniversary of the passing of St. Francis of Aizi and the shrine of the most blessed sacrament at Our Lady of the Angels Monastery in Hville, Alabama has been designated as a site where pilgrims have the opportunity to obtain a plenary indulgence for themselves or a soul in purgatory. To learn more, please visit oolamshrine.com/jubilee.

[00:28:25]>> Saints are the heroes of the Catholic faith, serving as examples for all Catholics. View our comprehensive documentation of saints who serve as theologians and doctors of the church at EWTN.com.

[00:28:39]Catholicism. I'm Deacon Harold Burke Civers. Join me for Beacon of Truth today at 400 p.m. Eastern.

[00:28:45]>> On the next Beacon of Truth, talking more about how does Jesus accompany you.

[00:28:50]Now, back to Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:29:00]Glad you're with us for Call to Communion. We're live on this Tuesday afternoon here on EWTN. Our phone number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:29:12]Let's go to uh Angelica in Texas watching us today on YouTube. Hey Angelica, what's on your mind today?

[00:29:19]>> Hi Tom and Dr. Anders. Um in the Nyian creed we say that Jesus was begotten, not made. I mean I'm just wondering why we differentiate between the two and and whether or not that's addressing a heresy that says that >> it is absolutely addressing a hairy it's absolutely addressing a heresy. Now thank you for the for the question. So what prompted the council of Nika uh in 3:25 was the heresy of Aryanism and all 4th century Christians agreed that Jesus was God. That was not in dispute. What was what was in dispute was the meaning of that term. What do we mean when we say Jesus is God? And uh and in Aras's mind, Jesus was God um in that he was um you know, he was kind of lowercase divine, but he was ultimately a creature. He was something made by God a long time ago, but not eternal. Not eternal. Um so he's God with a small G. And the Orthodox party associated particularly with Athanasius of Alexandria said, "No, when we say Jesus is God, we mean we mean God full stop." You know, God with a capital G, eternal God. And uh and so the Aryans had a saying, there was a time when he was not. There was a time when he was not. And they taught it as a jingle. And for some reason, I just can't ever think of that without hearing bingo is his nameo. In my head, you know, there was a time when he was not, you know, >> Jesus was his name. Oh, you know, I just have that going through my head. You and that's what they did to to transmit it around people.

[00:31:00]>> And so the the Orthodox party had to be sure we need to make sure we formulate the creed in such a fashion as to specifically rule out the possibility of Christ having been made, of Christ having been a creature. But because he's son of God, you know, God's first begotten son.

[00:31:18]>> Yes.

[00:31:18]>> The language of beetting is used. And so the way the church understands the the father's beetting of the son is that it is an eternal beetting. He is eternally begotten. It's not a beetting that has a moment in time. And you say, well, how could you do that? How can you have something that's eternally begotten? And the best I can do is offer you an analogy.

[00:31:39]Um, I'll give you two. All right. The first one is imagine the relationship between uh an axiom and the conclusion of a geometric proof. Right? You have a principle, the axiom of the proof and then you have the conclusion that proceeds from the axiom.

[00:31:54]>> But clearly that relationship is an eternal one. I mean there's that which is prior and that which is subsequent but not temporally subsequent, >> right? It's eternally in relation.

[00:32:04]>> Um uh another one and this is St. Augustine's analogy is imagine if you have an eternal intellect, the subject that is an intellect thinking itself, right? I mean, I can conceive of myself as an object. And if I do that, the subject doing the thinking and the object being thought are one and the same thing, but there's a relation there of of priority, not temporal priority, but a kind of metaphysical priority of of of principle and that which precedes. And that's the relationship between the father and the son. There's the principle which is the father that which that which proceeds which is the son by way of begetting but it's an eternal relation not one that is a a being made in time. So that's why that's in there. Angelica is that helpful for you?

[00:32:49]>> Yes, as always I appreciate you both very much.

[00:32:51]>> Thank you. We appreciate you. Thanks for listening to us in Texas there. Angelica call to communion here on EWTN. Our phone number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:33:05]Carol's listening to us in northeastern United States on SiriusXM channel 130.

[00:33:10]Hello Carol. What's on your mind today?

[00:33:13]>> Well, I Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:33:17]>> Go right ahead.

[00:33:19]>> Um I I um I was told that you had this question asked already. I missed it. But um I I go to church. I I was brought up with that that uh the eukarist uh should be the body and blood of Christ. When you see it advertised on television, EWTN, it's the body and blood of Christ. But yet, when you go to church, all you get is the body. Well, if the blood is that inconsequential, then why does the priest take it and leave you with nothing?

[00:33:54]>> Yeah, thanks, girl. It's a great question. So I'm going to draw several distinctions. So so hang with me while I I try to break this down into a lot of different pieces. Okay? So it's a complex answer.

[00:34:07]So the first thing to note is the church teaches that through transubstantiation that's the words of consecration pronounced over the elements over the bread and the wine that that all of the eucharistic species that is to say all of the the bread all of the wine individually become the body blood soul and divinity of Jesus. That means that if I pick up the consecrated host it is Christ's body and blood. If I pick up the chalice, it is Christ's body and blood. So if I receive communion in what's what's called one kind, if I just receive the consecrated host, as is what you're describing, I'm still getting the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus. Because that's what transubstantiation means, that all of Christ is present as in each particle of the consecrated species. If I even get a crumb of the consecrated host, it's all of Christ's body, blood, soul, and divinity. So, you say, "Well, if that's the case, then why have two kinds at all? Why are there two kinds at all?"

[00:35:10]And here's where I'm going to get a little subtle on you. So, we know that the Eucharist is not just a symbol, right? That'd be the Protestant doctrine. It is in fact his true body, blood, soul, and divinity.

[00:35:22]But the fact that it is his real body and blood does not stop it from also being a symbol.

[00:35:28]All right. What is it a symbol of?

[00:35:32]It's a symbol of what took place at Calvary 2,000 years ago. Because you have bread over here and wine over there. Body blood that memorializes what happened at Calvary when Christ's body was separated from his blood. when his when his blood was shed. That's why the mass is called the memorial of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

[00:35:57]Now that's I'm going to draw a third distinction. So we've talked about his true body and blood present in both species. We've talked about the Eucharist as a memorial of what happened at Calvary. All right. Now I'm going to draw another distinction. Um and now I've forgotten what I was going to say. What's my third distinction?

[00:36:14]Hang on a second. Um so ah yes. Okay.

[00:36:18]Um, when we go to mass, uh, and we memorialize what happened at Calvary, >> Mhm.

[00:36:25]>> the church teaches that that that that memorial act is to be understood as a sacrifice.

[00:36:34]That we're offering the body and blood of Christ to God, both the real body and blood because he's really there, but also we're we're we're doing it in a symbolic ritual form because of this double consecration. We're recalling what happened at Calvary, right? And so the Eucharist that what's what you're doing, what you're going to mass is you're actually participating in a sacrificial right.

[00:36:56]Now, you don't have to receive at all to be a participant at the sacrifice.

[00:37:03]All you have to do by to participate is be present and to make it your intention. I'm offering myself along with Jesus. That's all you have to do.

[00:37:11]And then and then the the purpose of there being two kinds is fulfilled, right? Even if you don't go to mass, I mean, even if you don't receive communion, you're still part of the sacrifice.

[00:37:21]>> Now, in addition to being a sacrifice, it's a sacrament. As a sacrament, it's something I receive. But as a sacrament, I'm receiving it to receive the whole Christ. Well, I get that from either kind. So, it's not necessary for me receiving both kind to have the full sacramental efficacy. All right. Now, why would the priest ever want to withhold the chalice from the lay people? Because we believe that it's really Christ's body and blood. Uh, and quite honestly, liquids are just harder to handle than solids. The risk of spilling the chalice and desecrating, you know, as it were, is high and has happened. And so, as a matter of prudence, it's often advisable if the lady receiving one kind. After all, they're receiving the whole body and blood of Christ and through the double consecration, they're participants in the full sacrifice. So, there's just no added benefit and there is a reason of prudence to withhold it. Um, and the reason the priest consumes both kinds is it's in it's in imitation of recapitulation of the events of the last supper when Christ instituted the Eucharist and instituted the priesthood.

[00:38:31]So, that's why >> there you go, Carol. Thanks so much for your call today. It is called to communion. Uh we've got time for a few more calls here at 833288 EWTN. That's 833-2883986.

[00:38:45]Coming up uh next on most of these EWTN stations. It'll be open line Tuesday with Father Wade Man's answering all your questions about faith, family, and fellowship at 3 p.m. Eastern on most of these EWTN stations. Got a text here.

[00:38:59]There's no name attached to this text, but it says, "My wife told me she has concerns about Catholicism stemming from some of the Old Testament dogma, especially the ideas of women being subservient and the treatment of LGBTQ people." Uh, Leviticus 20:13 especially bothers her. So, my question is, uh, does the church teach that these are still to be taken literally in the modern day?

[00:39:25]>> Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. The church has never taught that we are to read the Old Testament in a straightforward literal way. Um, as if the denotative sense of the words on the page, you know, it's just how we ought to read them and apply them in a in a in a sort of undifferiated fashion to modern life. Church has never taken that position.

[00:39:47]>> In fact, Jesus did not take that position.

[00:39:50]>> St. Paul did not take that position. And there are several places in the gospels and the epistles where Christ and St. Paul specifically go after that kind of interpretation and reject it. Um the the the final rule for Catholic interpretation of the Bible was given by was art not not created by but articulated well by St. Augustine of Hippo when he said that any biblical interpretation is acceptable provided it leads to love >> provided it leads to charity. That's the final criteria for biblical interpretation. But in a nutshell, the way Catholics read the Old Testament is we say that there is a literal sense which does not mean the the denotative sense of the words like a fundamentalist would say we don't mean that at all. Lit literal sense is what the sacred author intended in his historical context which is often something quite different. All right. Um and then there is the spiritual sense which subdivides into allegorical andogical and moral. And of the two, the spiritual is vastly the more important. It's the one that points us to Christ. And it's the one we can only get at by reading the Old Testament through the mind of Christ with the aid of the spirit and together with the Catholic Church. And so there are ancient Christian commentators of doctrines of the church that look at these and similar passages. You know, they look at the straightforward reading and they go, "Nope, not going to do that. Not going there. No, no, no." And that's what Jesus did. You know, when he when he encountered the woman caught in adultery, the Pharisees said, "Well, Moses said we're supposed to stone this lady." What do you say? He wouldn't do it. He wasn't going there.

[00:41:20]>> There you go. Appreciate that text.

[00:41:22]Thanks so much for it. It is called to communion here on EWTN. Mary is in St. Louis listening to us on SiriusXM channel 130. Mary sent us a text which says this. Some guys knocked on my door the other day asking if they could show me a short presentation on the Bible. I agreed just to see what they had to say.

[00:41:42]They started out by telling me about how there's multiple gods, Elohim, mentioned in the Bible, God the Father and God the Mother. I asked what church they were with and they said it's called World Mission Society Church of God. I said, "Well, I'm Catholic and respectfully this is heresy. I don't believe that, but thanks for your time." Was I wrong in my response? I wish I could have argued what we believe as Catholics, but I didn't quite know what to say. I would love to hear what I could have said.

[00:42:14]Thanks so much, Mary.

[00:42:16]>> Yeah. Thank you very much. I really appreciate this church.

[00:42:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they were started in Korea in 1964, uh, this group. And they are definitely way way way outside the bounds of of mainstream Christianity and Christian orthodoxy. And I I won't go over all their beliefs, but they're highly idiosyncratic and and you know, they have they've they've been accused of having cultlike aspects in their internal organization and so forth.

[00:42:42]Um, you know, uh, I I I don't like to engage in pyics with these kind of groups because we we end up just swimming around in a bowl of word salad, you know, and and, you know, they're they're not there to have an open intellectual discussion about the text of sacred scripture. They're they're there to procilitize and convert. And I'm I'm not interested in that. So I mean I I would either not engage personally I would not engage on the theology or I would or I would might be a little little mischievous and have fun and you know like I don't know tell them I worshiped Jupiter or something like that you know just to get them going you know I'm not wouldn't really do that.

[00:43:24]>> So you think that Mary's response was was >> I would offer them milk and cookies and brownies and you know and play with them a little bit maybe but I would definitely wouldn't engage at the theological level.

[00:43:34]>> Call to communion here on EWTN. Still time for a few more calls at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:43:45]A great email here from Kate who says uh and she's checking in from Michigan.

[00:43:49]Kate says, "I was listening to a documentary on St. Augustine which stated that the Protestant doctrines of justification by faith alone, grace being given to some and not all and its being irresistible and double predestination. These were all definitively taught and documented by St. Augustine, a Catholic Augustininian bishop. All of which the Catholic Church initially endorsed and then later denied. Is this really true? Thanks so much for making us better informed and knowledgeable Catholics. May God continue to bless you and all that you do. And that's from Kate.

[00:44:25]>> All right, you can't see my lips because I'm on the radio. Imagine that you can read my lips. Augustine was not a Lutheran. Let me say it again. Augustine was not a Lutheran. I say it three times. Augustine was not a Lutheran. He was not a Lutheran. Do I need Augustine was not a Lutheran. Okay. Now, uh this is a cop a topic that is very near and dear to my heart because when I was a Protestant and held a Lutheran understanding of justification.

[00:44:59]>> Yes. And I also understood the Protestant claim that the Reformation was a recovery of Christian antiquity and that justification by faith alone was the doctrine on which the church stands or falls. It was very important for me to document that claim in Christian antiquity. And there is no text, there's no passage, there's no author of the ancient church that the Protestant church quotes more in defense of their doctrine than St. Augustine.

[00:45:23]It's very clear that they try to ground themselves in Augustine. So, I personally went and read massive amounts of Augustine's works and all of these antipolagian works on justification. And guess what I found? He ain't no Lutheran, right? At all at all. At all.

[00:45:39]At all. At all. And it's not just I who have drawn this conclusion. Um, I would point you to the works of Alistair McGrath, a Protestant evangelical historian of doctrine who wrote a two volume history of this subject called Eustitzia Day. It's a history of the doctrine of justification and McGrath forms the judgment based on probably the the most the widest ranging study of the question in the English language that uh that Luther's doctrine of justification by faith alone was a complete theological novelty that nobody before Luther including Augustine had ever held it. Okay. Now what you can say about Augustine is that prior to Augustine Christian sotiology that is to say the doctrine of salvation was not articulated primarily in terms of the letters of St. Paul. Well let me reframe it wasn't articulated primarily in terms of the letters of Romans and Galatians and the language of justification and grace. Right? Other Pauline metaphors were used um other scriptural language was drawn upon that particular those passages in Augustine were not critical to the church's sotiology. Augustine made them critical and most interpreters and most biblical scholars think that he made them critical by misinterpreting them right but he he placed the language of justification at in the foreground of Christian soteriology. He did emphasize, as the Catholic Church does, that we cannot be saved without grace. That grace is prevenient, meaning that you can't merit grace. Um, and that grace comes through faith. All of those are Catholic doctrines, by the way. That's what the Catholic Church teaches. What Augustine did not teach is that grace brings the imputation of Christ's righteousness through faith alone.

[00:47:23]Right? That is the unique Lutheran accent that is explicitly rejected by St. Augustine. nowhere taught there. Uh Augustine does believe in predestination. Guess what? So do Catholics.

[00:47:37]>> Predestination is a Catholic doctrine.

[00:47:39]That doesn't differentiate us from Protestants. The way we understand predestination is different, but that it is a Catholic doctrine is a is a matter of dogma. Right? So So the claim is just it's true that Protestants spend more time poking around in Augustine for evidences than they do any other father.

[00:47:57]Um, but they have not successfully proven the case that Augustine in fact held Lutheran doctrines. He did not.

[00:48:03]Well, there you go. Hey, Kate, thanks so much uh for your email from Michigan.

[00:48:08]Call to Communion here on EWTN. Got this one from Steve in upstate New York.

[00:48:13]David Steve says, "Evangelicals call Easter Resurrection Sunday and they claim that Easter is a word tied to pagan practices. From what I can see, the etmology of the word means dawn and that Easter implies the opening of a door to the sun or light rising in the east. So please, an explanation would be helpful. Thanks, Steve, in upstate New York. Yeah, I have absolutely no problem at all with the claim that the word Easter derives from the old English Esther or Esther, which refers to a German goddess of spring or dawn. I have okay great all right fantastic I have no objection etmology is not meaning I mean I'll say it again etmology is not meaning right meaning is defined by use not by etmology if you want to eliminate every word in the English language that has a Germanic pagan origin you're going to have to get rid of the days of the week all right um uh what is today Tom >> today is Tuesday >> Tuesday tomorrow is Odin's day.

[00:49:22]Did you know that?

[00:49:23]>> I did not know that.

[00:49:23]>> And then after that is Thor's day.

[00:49:26]>> Oh, okay.

[00:49:26]>> Right. So, I guess if we're not going to name thing after Germanic gods, we better get rid of tomorrow, the day that cannot be named, and the day after that cannot be named. You know, we'll change Wednesday to, I don't know, God the Father Day, and Thursday will be God the Son Day, and then Friday will have to be God the Holy Spirit day, and then we'll have to come up with a new one for Saturday, you know, man named after Saturn. I mean like you you can't we got to get rid of January named after the god Janice, right?

[00:49:54]>> And here my phone is chiming in even it's so excited about this. Right. So so uh yeah I mean this is just that's ridiculous. I mean yes it's named after a pagan goddess. So what so what so much of our vocabulary comes from a different time and era >> when when the Germanic and English speaking world were pagan. So what Catholics do is they take they take pagan words, they take pagan uh ideas, they take pagan institutions and they Christian they Christianize them. They baptize them. They they put them to the use of the church. That's why you can go through Italy all over Italy. You were in Aisi, you probably saw this and you'll find a church named Santa Maria Sopra Minerva. St. Mary on top of Manurva. There's Mary beating the stew out of Manurva, right? It's all over the place, right? there's woven throughout the tradition because Christianity is by design the reconciliation of the gentile pagan world to to uh to the Jewish Hebraic heritage mediated through Jesus Christ.

[00:50:51]>> Okay, appreciate that. And uh Steve, thanks so much for your email from upstate New York. We got this one from Dennis. He says, "In regards to which body of Christ we receive at Holy Communion, his body the same yesterday, today, and forever. what was received by the apostles at the first. It seems a bit contrite to argue state when speaking of the god man Jesus Christ before the father as a lamb slain.

[00:51:17]>> Oh, love this question. Love this question. St. Thomas asks this in the sumo. He says that if the apostles had received the eukarist when Christ was in the tomb, >> uh, >> they would have received Christ's body, blood, and divinity, but not his human soul. Because at the time of the that eucharistic offering which they did not make but they could have Christ's uh soul was separated from his body due to physical death that underscores that what you receive in holy communion is always Christ as he exists in his proper person right now. So right now as we speak Jesus is at the right hand of the father. So the Christ who is made present on the altar is Jesus as he is right now Christ at the right hand of the father. If uh you know if we'd celebrated mass and to make it even clear when Christ celebrated mass on holy Thursday the Christ who was present in the elements was the same Christ who was sitting at the table.

[00:52:19]And so the father said that Christ held himself in his own hands.

[00:52:24]>> Wow.

[00:52:25]Pretty amazing. Thanks so much uh for your email. That's from uh Dennis. And a real quick one here as we're heading out the door. This is from Jimmy in Midway, Georgia. What is the Catholic belief of the new Jerusalem andor the new temple at the second coming of Christ? Well, you know, Jesus was pretty clear about this and so are the apostles. Um you you are the temple. You are the temple and the church is the temple and the church is the new Jerusalem, right? That's that's that's that's patently obvious. I mean, Jesus says, "Tear down the this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days." But he was talking about the temple of his body, right? His physical body, also his body, which is the church.

[00:53:03]Okay. Well, there you go. And uh you know what? Since we've got a couple of seconds, I just want to mention this that we got from Tom. You were asked on the air recently about your musical taste departure between you and your wife. Your response of the classic band, The Grateful Dead, surprised me. Mine of that era is Jethro Tull, but you're in good company with Father Daniel Callaway. I personally only like Working Man's Dead as it was so bluegrass oriented. He also says, "You mentioned a current following of progressive bluegrass artist Billy Strings. I had never heard of him. Downloaded Highway Prayers this morning while sitting in a Houston airport heading to Nashville. It is really good. Thanks so much."

[00:53:43]>> Okay, if you like The Bluegrassy Dead, what you have to do is you've got to go listen to Reckoning. Go get an all acoustic album. Go listen to Reckoning.

[00:53:51]So, two two disc set of the Grateful Dead plan, you know, acoustic numbers.

[00:53:55]Many of them very bluegrassy. Um, I could go on with the dead bluegrass.

[00:53:59]Don't get me started. There's a hundred of them, right? Um, with Billy Strings, uh, Highway Prayer is not my favorite.

[00:54:05]Go check out Home, the album Home, and Turmoil and Tinfoil. All right. Those are my favorites. I am hoping that our producer Rich Jesse is listening because he is also a bit of a dead head as was his dad. Is his dad.

[00:54:17]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:54:18]>> Oh, yeah. It's quite a little following here. Dr. Dr. David Anders. Thank you, my friend. Great to be back on the program. We're going to see you again tomorrow at the same time for another edition of Call to Communion. Remember to keep it here on EWTN, your companion 24 hours a day. Uh on behalf of our great team here, I'm Tom Price. Glad to be back with Dr. David Andrew. See you tomorrow on Call to Communion. God bless.

[00:54:55]May is the month dedicated to the blessed mother. Pope St. John Paul II said, "Today we begin the month dedicated to our lady, a favorite of popular devotion. In accord with the long-standing tradition of devotion, parishes and families continue to make the month of May a Marian