The Cave of Treasures is a Syriac text from the late 6th or early 7th century, attributed to St. Ephraim the Syrian, that provides an ancient interpretation of Genesis by dividing world history into thousand-year ages and revealing hidden biblical patterns such as Adam's creation from four elements (earth, water, air, fire), his luminous pre-fall body, and the connection between Mount Moriah and Golgotha, demonstrating how ancient Near Eastern traditions preserved typological readings of scripture that inform modern Christian understanding.
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Universal History: What Really Happened in EdenAdded:
God said, "Come ye and let us make man in our image and according to our likeness." And when the angels heard this utterance, they fell into a state of fear and trembling and said to one another, "A mighty miracle would be made manifest to us this day." That is to say, the likeness of God our maker.
>> Wow.
>> Because of course, angels also can't see God.
>> Yeah.
It's amazing. So, >> you're thinking when we look now when we look at this creature, we'll be able to gonna tell us something about what our maker is actually like, right?
>> I got chills just now.
This is Jonathan Pou. Welcome to the symbolic world.
Hello everyone. I'm here with Deacon Sarapim. Christ is risen.
>> Indeed, he is risen.
>> And so this is our I don't know what what number of episode we are. How many years have we been doing this now for the >> uh like four and some change?
>> Something like that. Something like that. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And so Deacon Sarapin, please tell us what are we going to be talking about today on Universal History.
>> All right. Um forget everything I just told you in the introduction. That was a bait and switch. We're actually talking about Mormonism today. No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
>> No more Mormonism.
Okay. Okay. So, um to kind of set this up a little bit though. All right. So, we did a few videos about American religion, and one of the things that I was trying to say, which uh it seems like no matter how many times I repeated this, it it was not being effectively communicated.
So, I'll just say it one more time.
Obviously, that'll fix it. Um, one of the things I was trying to show is that American religion usually starts in this kind of weird place, uh, weird with a capital W. um that is um in a in a place that's you know uh focused on like ecstasies and revelations and enchantment and very often uh kind like folk magic and things like this. Um and then as it sort of becomes mainstream over time it secularizes and I was very interested in uh Mormonism as a great example of that because it's you know because it's an American religion. It started in America um and it you know shows all those things. Well, what a lot of people thought we were doing was like some kind of apologetic against Mormonism.
Uh, which like obviously I don't believe Mormonism is true and and um uh you know, but it's not because there's like not because it's weird. Not because there's weird stuff involved. Obviously, there's a lot of really weird things about Christianity. It's just because I worship the Holy Trinity, right? you know that's you know and and and and and you know that's a non-negotiable for me as it has always been for Christians right so so it's not that um you know so that's not actually what we were trying to do what I was trying to show is that actually all American religion follows that kind of pattern right that there is like if you could say that there's a a a force of Americanism you know one of the things that that tends towards is a um like an official secularizing um which kind of forces and this is really continuation of of forces that start in the reformation but this official secularizing that kind of forces the weird sort of magical things down into kind of like a folk magic thing but then what's unique about America is that at any moment those forces can spring up and become mainstream again. So just to prove that uh I'm not actually again weird stuff uh in religion uh I thought that we would uh start kind of another series where we would delve down a little bit deeper into um you know in the early days of this series we we touched on certain things from the book of Genesis and certain traditions like the tradition of Noah's fourth son or uh you know the tradition of the the the watchers and the Nephilim and like what's what's going on there and the different ways that that has been interpreted and received in the Christian tradition and so we talked about kind of you know some of these different things and uh but usually it was sort of doing a kind of theme by theme overview so we look at the theme of the last emperor or the theme of the fourth son of Noah and so on. What I want to do is actually dig uh spend a few weeks actually digging into some of these sources. Um and this will give us an opportunity to talk about the surprising universal history for instance of Persia, right? Obviously Persia or Iran is in the news a lot right now.
>> Really? Why would you want to talk about Persia right now?
>> I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Um you know, obviously it's in the news a lot right now and it's very interesting. Um uh it's just it's just it's been very interesting to see the way that it is talked about in America, right? Because in America, Iran, Iraq, these are just, you know, the sameistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, just Lebanon, it's all the same.
>> These are these are Yeah. Yeah. It's it's >> the lack of the lack of knowledge of the actual history, you know, behind some of these very ancient civilizations, right?
Persia obviously is >> Persia. It's like whatever was in Iraq in the sense of Babylon was destroyed by you know by the cons a very long time ago but Persia is a continuous civilization.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean it never stopped even though it became Islamic >> thousands of years. Yeah.
>> Like what are we doing?
>> Yeah. So, what I wanna what I want to kind of um I originally we were actually talking about doing a a a video on on the universal history of Persia, but then I was like, no, in order to get the accurate universal history of Persia, we will have to go back to the book of Genesis. So, that is what we are going to do this week um is go back to the very very beginning on the first day when God created the heavens and the earth and then we're going to kind of go forward and I promise we will get to Persia in like two or three videos. So that's the that's the plan.
That's the plan.
>> All right.
>> Um so the source that we're going to be drawing on a lot today. I'm going actually be drawing from a few different sources. Um that and and what is what is uh uh what all of these sources have in common is that they all come from the ancient near east or west Asia. Uh apparently we're calling it West Asia now. I don't know. Anyway, um it's fine.
Whatever helps people know what we're talking about is fine. but uh specifically from the Syriak uh and then also some stuff from the Coptic and Ethiopian traditions. And the reason that we're we're drawing on this is because these uh traditions continued to preserve certain aspects of uh you could say second temple Judaism or the Old Testament pseudapigrapha. You know, lots of different ways of talking about this collection of let's say collection of traditions or collection of stories.
It's not just a collection of texts, right? Text sort of assumes the idea never existed.
>> Yeah.
>> And at some point >> someone wrote it down and then everybody was like, "Oh, okay." You know, that's not >> it's not how things works.
>> It's how things work now, >> but it's not how things worked in the ancient world. Um so just as a as a general you know a a good kind of rule of thumb is that when you come across the first attested reference of something happening right you have to assume that it is probably been happening for a few hundred years before that point and we assume this for a few reasons one is it wouldn't have necessarily occurred to people in the ancient world oh I should write down every single detail of everything that is happening around me at all times so that things are fully document mented so that you know a few thousand years in the future when people are arguing on YouTube about early Christianity they'll have you know an exact chronological record of everything that that happened.
Um my favorite example of this which I think Father Steven D. Young brought up recently is that uh we don't actually have a written account of a woman receiving communion until the 4th century.
>> Man sexist Christians.
>> So were women not receiving communion before that point? Obviously they were obviously they were but it was just like there was one particular story about a woman receiving communion >> uh that uh that uh made a lot of waves and so people wrote it down in the history books and by the way it kicked off the notorian controversy different video another podcast whatever. Anyway um so actually not totally unrelated to this series but it we need like 20 videos to get there. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to say something about a little bit about these sources in the sense that you know one of the reasons why >> you know Deacon Sarapim and I both care a lot about the Syrian sources and you know why we we we love St. Ephraim and you know the s traditions around him is because you know in as people who have lost the deep connection between the Old Testament the New Testament who have lost in some ways the kind of story literacy that the ancient people had to understand these ancient stories. They are the ones that make the bridge. They do it because they're the ones doing the deep typology. They're the ones really having all these se second temple traditions kind of still alive in their culture. Obviously the Greeks, it was more important imported, but the Syrians where they were the Arameans, they were really the descendants of the people of the land where where where Christ was uh lived.
And there are all kinds of ways of interpreting the Bible that even if you are the sort of the most baseline evangelical Protestant, right? Or you grew up a fundamentalist like I did, there are all kinds of aspects of biblical interpretation, you actually still take from this tradition even though you don't know it. For instance, basically everything you believe about the devil.
>> That's right.
>> Right. The idea that the devil was one of the highest angels and then he fell at the beginning of time and that he brought a bunch of other, you know, angels into apostasy with him, right? That is not in the Bible. Now, you can get there by >> you can get there through like Isaiah and Revelation. like you can get there in this like massive circle but man >> but there's nothing in the Bible to tell you okay connect this this this and this >> no >> so the people who did that were obviously the early church right and the Jews before them but the people who did that were were you know coming out of this tradition and these are the things that they believed about the devil I give you another example which this is maybe a little more obscure but I was taught for instance growing up and Jonathan I'll be actually really interested interested to hear if this made it all the way to Canadian Baptists. Canadian >> um is I was taught growing up that Mount Moriah, the the mountain on which Abraham sacrifices Isaac or is going to sacrifice Isaac is the same location as Golgtha where Christ was crucified much later on in history. Did you ever hear this one growing up? I I mean I've heard it more recently, but I don't think it was something that I was told when I was >> Yeah, this was a big thing that was that was, you know, brought up. And obviously, you know, there's there's tons of symbolism, you know, in that.
>> If you go to the the holy seiler, they in the the in it because there is a there is literally a a mosaic of of the sacrifice of Isaac right next to the cross, right? It's like and Yeah.
>> Well, this is something I was taught growing up explicitly. I was taught, oh, and Mount Mariah was the same as Goltha later. And so, you see, it's like Abraham's going to sacrifice his son, and then God provides the substitute, and then later on, God gives his only son to be sacrificed on the same spot, right? You know, that kind of way of thinking about things.
>> Um, that's not in the Bible.
>> Oh, no.
>> Or at least that is an interpretation of the Bible that requires some kind of an extra biblical tradition. Now, it was everybody just took that for granted, right, in the tradition that I grew up in. But where does that come from? Well, it comes from the stuff we're about to read.
>> Yeah.
>> So, uh another good example would be uh things about MelkiseDC. Like what is going on with MelkiseDC?
>> Who is MelkiseDC?
>> Gets one mention in Genesis, right? And then he gets this very kind of obscure psalm verse in the Psalms.
And then the entire New Testament, especially the epistle to the Hebrews, >> yeah, >> takes that and runs with it. And what that seems to imply is that there was a tradition of interpretation around the person of Melkisedc, who this Melkisedc guy was, and what it would mean for Christ to be a priest after the manner of Melkisedc. And so, >> well, turns out again all of those traditions come from this kind of single wellspring, the single source.
>> Yeah. And let me just say one last thing, which is that it's really because of the way that we are educated, >> you know, and the way that that we think about the modern world, but we always have to remember that if a text is written down and people don't already know what was have been in the text, it just wouldn't have been received. Yeah.
>> Right. And so for the text to be received by a community, the community has to recognize it as something that we already knew, that it was already part of of what we believed. Um especially if there's continuity in that community.
And so the idea that people would just sit down and make up stuff like the way that we we think of writing fiction is just that's just not how any of this works.
>> A good example of what you're talking about is why the gospels are accepted and like the Gnostic gospels aren't, right? you know the the there's there's a modern way of doing apologetics which is to basically is like okay well you start with the Bible or you start with the gospels and you're like okay and this is the rubric by which we measure everything else and that basically only works now because of the process that we're describing but obviously originally there were people who are writing sperious gospels um but and and then there were you know then there were the the canonical gospels the ones that the churches accepted But there was a process of kind of weeding that out. And the process was well these gospels match the accounts that have been given to us by the people who knew Jesus and these other things do not.
>> Right? And so it's a it's a it was actually there was a lived out experience that becomes the measure of what is and is not accepted. So all of this being said, um even if you're uh situating yourself like you know not even remotely close to ancient Syrian Christianity, there's a lot of it which has actually come down to you and which informs the way that you continue to read the Bible today. Um and I'm that's not an own that's a good thing. I'm not saying you should change that. Like, but what I want to try to do is introduce people to some of these texts and explain a little more fully where some of these traditions come from. Because the cool thing is is that if you grow up with like these little pieces, you know, like this little piece about Abraham offering Isaac as a sacrifice in the same place where Christ is crucified, like obviously that means something. But then when you find out actually there's a bunch of other stuff that all happened right there and therefore you know what's that telling you? Well, it's telling you actually that the cross is the connecting point, right? The cross is the center of the world. The cross is a thing that's pulling together all these different layers about priesthood and sacrifice from across time, across the history of redemption and saying all of these things are perfectly fulfilled in what Christ does on the cross. Right?
So, that's the kind of the benefit that you can get from looking into some of these things. So, the text we're going to begin with today is called um it's called the the book of the cave of treasures. Um it is a title.
>> First of all, killer title.
>> Uh this comes from the Syriak tradition.
It is written in the probably the >> um let's say probably the the late uh sixth or the early 7th century and um but it is attributed to St. Ephraim the Syrian who is of course a 4th century church father. So what this doesn't mean is that this is what St. Efim wrote down word for word. That's not how attribution works in the ancient world.
But rather, that is to say that this is a series of traditions that were attributed to him and that you can certainly find in his hymns on paradise.
Uh you can certainly find them also in his uh uh commentary in Genesis and so on, which we're were kind of later set down uh by by somebody else. So that's what we're going to be looking at today.
And uh it nicely divides the history of the world. Um get excited young earth creationist guys. nicely divi uh divides the history of the world into thousand-year units or ages. So what I want to cover in this video or at least as far as we can get today is the first thousand years of the world >> of the world. All right.
>> All right. So in the beginning on the first day which is the first holy first day of the week that is Sunday the chief and firstborn of all the days God created the heavens and the earth and the waters and the air and the fire and the hosts which are invisible that is to say the angels the archangels the thrones the lords the principalities powers cherubam and saraphim and all the ranks and companies of spiritual beings and light and night and daytime and the gentle winds and the strong winds. All these were created on the first day. And on the first day of the week, the spirit of holiness, one of the persons of the Trinity hovered over the waters. And through the hovering over the face of the waters, the waters were blessed so that they might become producers of offspring. And they became hot. And the whole nature of the waters glowed with heat, and the leavenven of creation was united to them. As the mother bird maketh warm her young by the embrace of her closely covering wings, and the young birds acquire form through the warmth of the heat which they derive from her, and through the operation of the spirit of holiness, the spirit, the pariclete, the leaven of the breath of life was united to the waters when he hovered over them.
>> That's amazing. I mean what's amazing just one thing I want to say is you can really see here you know how what it is that we're talking about which is that he you know the author goes back on the text in Genesis all of these things I mean so many of these things are suggested in the in Genesis 1 that is the the separation of heaven and earth and and the and the you know the creation of the heavens and what's in the heavens you know we've talked about this so many times which is that the heavens are the invisible things they are the the ones that make the others move and therefore of course in the scripture it doesn't say that God creates the angels and creates all these spiritual beings on that day but it is definitely implied in the fact that he he has the invisibles above and then you know the potential of creation down below.
>> Yeah. And there's also a couple of other kind of nice nods to what is coming later um and will even be coming later on in this chapter. For instance, the world is created on the first day which is the holy first day of the week.
the chief and firstborn of all the days, right? Obviously, the emphasis in Genesis is on the Sabbath, the seventh day, which the Lord hallows, right? Um and then there's this kind of surprise that happens and it's hinted at in the Old Testament that talk speaking of the eighth day, the day of the Lord, right?
Um the sort of the surprise that happens in the resurrection when Sunday becomes the first day and the holy day of the new creation. So, we already see that kind of being gestured to here. There's also this reference to like the leavenan of creation uh which is probably more significant than maybe it immediately seems right you know levan is is yeast or actually in the ancient world I always like to tell people like now we have this thing called sourdough right uh or as they called it in the ancient world dough you know because you couldn't buy a yeast packet at the grocery store in you know the fourth century. Like that was not a thing that you could do. So every home has a has a a a basically a starter.
Yeah. Their own monster, you know, that they keep and they feed >> and that's what they're using to make bread.
>> And so when you read something like, you know, this, okay, for the feast of unleavened bread, what you're supposed to do is take the last year's starter and get that thing out of here. And it was so weird, by the way, hearing hearing this kind of taught on growing up because um and I I don't know if it's just cuz people had never made bread or what, but but but to be like, "Yeah, you've got to like wipe down all the cabinets in your kitchen and make sure there's not any little grains of yeast on." It's like, "No, that's not what this is about." You know, this is, you know, if you've ever tried to make sourdough and like you have a starter that kind of goes bad or starts going like funky in the wrong ways, you know, um uh you you know you know exactly what this is about, which is okay, time to toss that thing and start a new one, right? Which is what is happening. That is out with the old levan and in with a new levan. One of the weird kind of interpretive things that uh that I was taught even in like Protestant seminary is that every reference to levan in the scripture is always a reference to sin.
Really?
>> Your face just then was like that's the whole video. Clip that right there.
That's >> every leaven is >> Yeah. Yeah. This is the same thing I was taught in like Bible college. Like Yeah.
Like every reference in in in the Bible to Levan is a reference to sin, which is of course not what leaven is. Leaven is life.
>> But the problem is there's like an old life >> and then there's a new life, >> right? So you're it's not just like toss out all the leaven then you have a feast of unleaven bread and then no more leaven from that point forward. It's like no you're going to start a new starter but in the meantime all you can make is these like unleavened cakes.
That's the feast of the unleaven bread.
But what's the point of the unleavened bread? Well the point of the unleaven bread is to wait for the new leaven to wait for the new life. It is literally Christ in the tomb.
>> Mhm.
>> That is what that is.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And and when you think about the timing especially in the gospel according to St. on right the timing of the of the Eucharist being instituted at the feast of the unleven bread but Christ doesn't institute the the Eucharist this is a very important theological point so much so that it's it's the focal point of some of the cannons of the ecumenical councils for instance is that Christ does not institute the Eucharist with unleaven bread but rather with artos that is with leaven bread why because he's instituting the new life yeah >> right the new life >> so you have this mention again the leavenven of creation over and over again. The leavenven of life, the leavenven of creation, and that the Holy Spirit hovering over the waters is kind of engendering that leavenven of creation within them and giving them the capacity to bring forth life, >> right? So, anyway, there's a lot here just kind of in this first paragraph.
>> Yeah, >> this is Sarah from Hamilton. The imagery of Isaiah is overwhelming. Fire, stone, seed, life, and death. What does it have to do with Christ? Join me for my course the fifth gospel to discover how to read Isaiah in terms of its native language symbolism. When we read that language along the textual structure of the book, we find the story of Christ, the God who became man to elevate man to divine glory. And we find that story both in Isaiah's most famous passages and in his most obscure ones. The course starts on June 15th and can be attended live or at your convenience. I hope to see you there.
And there's a lot of commentaries um uh uh there's a there's a a a a much later commentary that comes from about the 13th century also in in the same tradition called the book of the bee which is kind of a commentary on Genesis and and interacts with this text quite a lot. Um there's a lot of commentary in there about the the idea of the seven substances substances of or or of of nature. That is like the things that the world is made out of, right? Which is heaven and earth, water and air, fire, the angels and darkness, right? Those are the seven kind of primordial substances.
>> Um and that you know uh this idea that those those things God sort of makes without speaking and then he speaks let there be light. And that's the first thing to be brought forth by his word.
So anyway, some some interesting kind of stuff there. So that's the first day. On the second day, God made the lower heaven and called it that which is solid and fixed or we usually translate this as firmament in in English.
Firmament is one of those fun old King James words that that hangs around and people don't know what it means anymore.
But the the point is like it's the it's the solid thing, right? You know, the The ancients sought thought of the sky as like a a hard dome. Right? Uh this he did that he might make known that the lower heaven does not possess the nature of the heaven which is above it and that it is very is different in appearance from that heaven which is above it. For the heaven above it is of fire and that second heaven is light. So the firmament and then the light and this lower heaven um and because it has the dense nature of water it has been called. So that's so it's it's got this dense nature but it's permeable kind of like water. So that's the explanation here for like the lower waters that or sorry the water that is above as opposed to the water that's below. Right.
>> Yeah.
>> In the second day God made a separation between the waters and the waters that is to say between the waters which are above and the waters which are below.
And the ascent of these waters which are above heaven took place on the second day. And they were like unto a dense black cloud of thick darkness. Thus were they raised up there and they mounted up. And behold, they stand above in the air, and they do not spread, and they make no motion to any side.
What's going on with the separation of the waters, Jonathan? Well, my my understanding of the separation of the waters is to help you see that everything that we encounter is in the earth. You know, the way that I tend to think about it is like you have the first separate, you have heaven and you have earth. So you have the absolutely purely spiritual principles and then you have absolute potential. Then what God does is that he puts a second heaven inside the earth that you he separates the waters and now he puts a a second heaven inside the earth and then he puts a second earth you could say inside that. And so what it means is that everything that we encounter is in the earth. It's all earth. And so we do understand the heaven of heavens through analogy by looking at what is up there.
But none of those none of those things that we encounter are pure spiritual uh essences. They are reflections of them in this world. And so right you see that we see kind of that in Dante where in some ways you have the celestial spheres and the celestial spheres they're not in themselves purely spiritual but they are in some ways refraction of of a purely spiritual reality which which transcends them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of a a divide between the the visible and the invisible world. Right. which is the like that's the division that's in the creed.
>> Yeah. The truly invisible like in the sense of of how intention is invisible, right? And then everything else and all the mechanical causes or all the possible other types of causes we see are in the earth. Okay. All right. So now we get on to the third day uh which was when God commands the waters that are below the firmament to all be gathered together in one place and the dry land appears. And when the covering of the water had been rolled up from the face of the earth, the earth showed itself to be in an unsettled and unstable state. That is to say, it was of a damp or moist and yielding nature.
And the waters were gathered together into seas that were under the earth and within it and upon it. And God made in the earth from below corridors and shafts and channels for the passages of the waters. And the winds which come forth from within the earth ascend by means of these corridors and channels, and also the heat and the cold for the service of the earth. Now, as for the earth, the lower part of it is like unto a thick sponge, for it resteth on the waters. And on this third day, God commanded the earth, and it brought forth herbs and vegetables, and conceived in its interior trees and seeds and plants and roots. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's interesting to see that the idea that in some ways the that the earth still rests on the waters. You know, this is the intuition that I've always had is that the primordial waters are are still there.
you know, the the toou bohu, like the first waters, they're still kind of underneath our world. They're they're underneath creation. But, you know, when they kind of put it into a visual image or they give you a kind of mechanical image, they still conceive of the earth as like almost like floating on top of floating on top of water. And >> by the way, >> shouldn't have to say this at this point on this channel, >> but because some people may be new. Um uh uh we are not saying that they are trying to describe in scientific terms or you know what what you would call science today this in scientific terms like you know the process of whatever like we're not doing that guys. It's not what we're doing. It's not what we're here to do.
and actually um trying to get people to engage in a a more um symbolic, a more poetic, none of which means fake, none of which means fictitious, uh but to engage in this way with this with this material >> is actually going to help you a lot more, >> right, in your life, right? Um I was trying to see if there's anything else here. I think one of the really interesting things and I I think you mentioned this in like in a Q&A recently and it jumped out at me. He was like, "Whoa, go back to that." And then uh but uh as so frequently because I was just listening to you and not talking to you.
Um I was like, "Jonathan, go back." And you didn't >> I didn't I didn't move.
>> Um is this idea of the the earth bringing forth seed, which is obviously what Genesis actually says. Uh but it really struck me as kind of odd. Um I don't know if you have any kind of thoughts about that. Yeah, I mean I I think that to me it's very fascinating to realize that there's a relationship in creation, right? There's this back and forth in creation between in some ways heaven giving major identities or giving commands but then it's not as if God creates every single thing individually you know and this is this is like I mean you would say okay but this is important because because of how we actually experience the world which is that we see that there are these categories of being but we see that in them there there's all this variety and there's actually indefinite amount of variety. So when you read the scripture and it's and God says to the earth, you know, produce plants with seed in them, >> you think, oh, he's not he's not telling the earth like this this type of plant, this type of plant. He's giving a big category. And then he's say he's saying now produce variety among that. And the only rule that he gives is that this variety has to have seed in it. That is every variety that you produce has to be able to reproduce itself. And that's so basically it's about identity and about you know clear identity that has that has life and can can continue its own identity.
One of the things that I thought of when you said that was okay. So, what does this say about when we create things that can't reproduce themselves? Like what's the whether whether like biologically like when you create, you know, a hybrid that isn't capable of reproduction or >> or even I mean it says it's it's interesting because hybrids that can't reproduce are usually produced uh for a kind of power, a specific power.
>> And this is this is so you can imagine that they're closer to the Earth, right?
They're they're more made out of potential and that's why they don't have they don't have life in themselves. They can't really continue their their they're almost too much of a tradein between meaning and power and power is too strong. So like a mule for example, you know, it's like it's too it it's it's bred for us to be very powerful and strong and to do certain things, but it doesn't have enough meaning in it for it to be able to continue on its own.
>> Yeah.
I want to I want to think more about what are the implications to uh because I mean I don't know you can you can apply that to like hybrid religions and hybrid thought systems and obviously >> to plastic >> right >> plastic doesn't occur in nature like you have to make plastic and you make it for very for a very powerful purpose but you can't mine plastic you can't find it in the earth it's not naturally occurring so it's an artificial creation that is very powerful. But then it has certain qualities which is that plastic is brittle like plastic you know it tends to to move towards it doesn't disappear but it tends to fragment and tends to move towards a kind of to decompose into that's why we have microplastic in our brains you know um but but this is there are plenty of examples of of >> among other places Jonathan >> yes I do I was going to say the other place have you went straight there >> oh man listen somebody was going to say it in the comments >> that's you know. Yeah. Yeah.
>> All right. So, the fourth day, God made the sun, the moon, and the stars. And as >> one last thing about that, though, one last thing.
>> Isn't it interesting that by making sterile things, we might be making ourselves sterile?
>> I mean, don't you find it just fascinating?
>> Yeah. Like, >> yeah.
>> Like, by by being obsessed with power and the power that these materials produce, we might be making ourselves sterile. I mean that is seriously symbolism happens you know >> you know I think that I mean it's worth actually kind of pausing this for a moment because this is obviously the creation of sterile systems is one of the main goals of modernity.
>> Yeah. you know, because life kind of gets a, you know, gets away from you like life life gets a little out of control, right? And um this there was a um obviously there are a lot of things you can apply this to. I I always think about the the iconoclasm that happened during the Reformation, you know, where, you know, it was like, oh, the churches are too cluttered and there's too much chaos and people are just sort of like doing their own devotions off here in the corner of the cathedral and we want them all focused on the the one thing together, right? And so, you know, we purge everything. We we paint the the church walls white. You know, Olingley says, you know, how wonderfully white the church is all are all are all now.
Um but also the the the creation of um and it seems like especially kind of the the the the scientific community and and modernity like in in Lewis's day like in the time of the Inklings was was was hyperfocused on this this idea. Um and and Lewis really kind of plays with this uh in that hideous strength, right?
where where the the scientists their their peak version of humanity, right, is is the sort of like we're going to eliminate biological reproduction, right? And and that actually fornication and sexual depravity are are aimed at >> at ultimately obliterating the sex act altogether. Right. And you can definitely see that happening.
>> It's it's happening before our very eyes >> like right now, right? When people say something like, "Yeah, Gen Z is having less sex than any of previous generation." It is not because they're chased, guys. That's not why it's happening.
>> Um, uh, it is it is, you know, uh, uh, I mean, I don't know. Like it's it's just like man if you want to if you just want an example of demons existing like I don't you know this this this whole sort of like yeah you've got something happening at the biological level maybe it's the microplastics or who knows but then also things happening at the cultural level like what are all the devices that we're using to watch the porn made out of and it's just like I'm sounding a little crazy in the video today. I realize that.
>> Um but the crazy stuff is yet to come guys so just buckle up. Yeah.
>> Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make is that uh uh yeah that it's the whole the whole system is a system of infertility ultimately. Why?
>> Well, the you know it's that this idea that it if we can get rid of the fertility you know we're going to maximize our power. We're going to maximize our control and we are going to, you know, be able to kind of get rid of all these sort of messy things that annoy us, you know, like toddlers or um, you know, behavior that we don't want from certain people or certain, you know, obviously 20th century lots of famous examples of eugenics that were people were were trying more or less willy-nilly. Um and and so sometimes it would be just like, oh, there's this one group of people that we just want to get rid of them, you know, so let's target their ability to reproduce, right? So >> yeah. All right. Uh I don't know.
>> The earth produces seed.
>> It's going to be hard to recover from this. Okay. So boy. All right. On the fourth day, God made the sun and the moon and the stars.
And as soon as the heat of the sun was diffused over the surface of the earth, the earth became hard and rigid and lost its pliability because the humidity and the dampness caused by the waters were taken away from it. The creator made the sphere of the sun of fire and filled it with light. And God gave unto the sphere of the moon and the stars bodies of water and air and filled them with light. And when the dust of the earth became hot, it brought forth all the trees and plants and seeds and roots which had been conceived inside of it on the third day.
>> Yeah. So you have you have the sort of the potential. This is kind of an answer to the question was like how were plants growing before there was a sun or whatever. Anyway, stupid question.
>> Yeah. But it's just kind of it's weird because you know you find these ideas that you're seeing in this that are in some ways trying to bridge the gap between the Genesis one. Yeah.
>> The Genesis account and maybe kind of medieval type of thinking or medieval causal thinking is how much of it is still there now. And so, for example, this idea that heat is transferred from heaven onto earth and this is how things kind of come up out of the heat. You know, it's like what do you what do you think the big bang is? It's like the big bang is just this massive amount of heat and energy that then kind of moves out and then cools cools down and then you have the the supposedly that's where life comes from. And so what's just interesting to see that you know although of course this text doesn't uh you know believes obviously this all comes from God and these origin its origin is from God it's it's trying to kind of help you understand the transfer transfers of energies and these types of things in a way that is actually still being talked about today. which is fascinating.
>> By the way, I'll this is just this is free with the price of admission, you guys.
>> Um you'll notice that there's a lot of language here about things like hot air and cold air and heat and cold and wet and dry and states in between and things like this. This is this way of talking about things in uh uh in the world. You know, some of that language later makes it into like medieval alchemy, but it's not doesn't originate from there. Like this is the ancient way of just kind of talking about the fundamental building blocks of creation and and it is essential to understanding medieval Christian readings of the Iliad.
Now this is I want to say something about this because this is really important. You know, we did this video with Annie Crawford about their knowledge of join about that >> and we who who was >> some somebody on Twitter got their knows real >> he was a priest.
>> Yeah. He's not he's a he's a he's not a he's in a he's he's in like a old calendarist sect. He's not >> Yeah. Anyways, so whatever wherever he is some people got really annoyed. But like you said, I mean if we don't understand some of these these ways of speaking about the world, there's so many things about scripture and about tradition that we're not true for us.
You're not going to be >> Let me explain the Iliad reference real quick. It's not really going to explain anything. I just want people to know.
Um, >> so in the Christian East, obviously, people never stopped being able to read Greek. And so people kept using the Iliad as part of education all the way up through, you know, the the end of the the Eastern Roman Empire. And uh so one of the readings that develop is sometimes called the alchemical reading of the Iliad. Um and it's it's anacronistically you know that that name is anacronistic but uh in any case the one of the ways of reading it is actually they assign these different forces to the different Greek gods in the poem.
Um you know so like different Greek gods stand for like different influences hot air cold air dry wet etc. And then uh and then the the poem actually became a way of teaching basically science you know basically like physical science science in the the Eastern Roman Empire.
So uh classical ed people please um update your curricula accordingly. Okay so um yeah um all right fifth day we're doing great on time.
>> Yeah we we just have 999 years and 360 days to go. Um all right.
So the fifth day God commands the waters and they bring forth all kinds of fish of diverse appearances and the creatures which move about and twist themselves and wrigle in waters and serpents and leviathan and the beasts of terrible aspects and feathered foul of the air and of the waters. And on the same day God made from the earth all the cattle and the wild beasts and all the reptiles which creep about upon the earth. Okay.
And then on the um and and there's a little kind of an interesting thing going here with the timeline.
>> Yeah. Uh because uh uh uh in some you know some versions some versions of this obviously the the cattle are created on the sixth day with man.
>> Right. I mean that's what I always thought.
>> Right. Right. So that's what's in Genesis. But um according to commentaries on this it's because they were created you know they're created like on Friday evening. Um and so it's just like is this the fifth day or the sixth day right? if the date starts in the evening. In any case, um >> Oh, and so that the sixth the full sixth day day part would be for man kind of thing.
>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then on the sixth day and part of this is because the the the commentary tradition is trying to set apart the sixth day specifically for man.
>> That's right. It's to say that this is the this is the day of man. So on create on the sixth day of creation uh which is the eve of the Sabbath, God formed man out of the dust and Eve from his rib.
Okay. And then on the seventh day, God rested from his labors and it is called Sabbath. Now, let's get into the Adam stuff because this is where I stirred up a controversy on Twitter uh recently. Um so this will be kind of fun to talk about. Um >> see the difference that I don't answer this stuff.
>> I know, I know, I know, I know. I know.
It's cuz you're much more mature and experienced than I >> No, I don't know. It's just like why why call attention to it? Yeah. Now the formation of Adam took place in this wise on the sixth day which is the eve of the Sabbath at the first hour of the day when quietness was raining over all the ranks of the angels and the host of heaven God said so this is on the on the sixth day the eve of the Sabbath the at the first hour of the day so is it it's quite sort of right on that is it Friday is it Saturday it's right there >> oh right yeah >> God said come ye and let us make man in our image and according to our likeness now by this Third, us he maketh known concerning the glorious persons of the trinity. Uh which is something I was always taught growing up when you know this is a early reference. Make it in our images.
>> Early reference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um and when the angels heard this utterance, they fell into a state of fear and trembling and said to one another, "A mighty miracle would be made manifest to us this day." That is to say, the likeness of God our maker.
>> Wow. Because of course angels also can't see God.
>> Yeah.
It's amazing.
>> So >> you're thinking when we look now when we look at this creature, we'll be able to see it's going to tell us something about what our maker is actually like, >> right?
>> I got chills just now. Like that's so awesome.
>> And they saw the right hand of God opened out flat and stretched over the whole world. And all creatures were collected in the palm of his right hand.
And they saw that he took from the whole mass of the earth one grain of dust, and from the whole nature of water one drop of water, and from all the air which is above one puff of wind, and from the whole nature of fire, a little of its heat and warmth. And the angel saw that when these four feeble or inert materials were placed in the palm of his right hand, that is to say, cold and heat, dryness, and moisture, God formed Adam.
Now, for what reason did God make Adam out of these four materials? Unless we're to show that everything which is in the world should be in subordination to him through them. He took a grain from the earth in order that everything in nature which is formed of earth should be subjected unto him. And a drop of water in order that everything which is in the seas and the river should be his, and a puff of air so that all kinds of creatures which fly in the air might be given unto him, and the heat of fire so that all the beings that are fiery in nature, and the celestial hosts might be his helpers.
God formed Adam with his holy hands, in his own image and likeness.
And when the angels saw Adam's glorious appearing, they were greatly moved by the beauty thereof.
For they saw the image of his face burning with glorious splendor like the orb of the sun, and the light of his eyes was like the light of the sun. And the image of his body was like under the sparkling of crystal. By the way, I was told growing up, this was really big in some of the fundamentalist circles I was in at the time. It was part of kind of the young earth creationist thing that that Adam and Eve's original bodies before the fall like shown with light.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is again not in the Bible Bible, but it is in the fathers.
>> That's right. It comes from the Syrians.
>> That's right. San Ephraim S. It definitely comes from the It actually comes from older Jewish like kind of early rebbitical traditions.
>> Right. And and there's a nod to this, by the way, in the uh in in in the baptismal hymn that we still sing in the Orthodox church. So, for instance, we sing after somebody's been baptized when they're clothed in their baptismal garment. Say, "Grant unto me a robe of light or that is a garment of light, oh most merciful Christ our God, who clothe himself with light as with a garment." Right? So this is the this is this idea that that you're being remade. You're being recreated. You're being reclothed with the garment of light which our first fathers and mother had in in in paradise. And when he rose at full length and stood upright in the center of the earth, he planted so the center of the earth he planted his two feet on that spot whereon was set up the cross of our redeemer.
>> Okay.
>> For Adam was created in Jerusalem.
All right. Why not? I mean, this is something that is definitely there.
Definitely there in the Jewish tradition. It's definitely there. I mean, the difference is that the in the Christian tradition, we would believe that it was it was Golgoa, which is the the >> But the Goltha the Golting thing comes also from pre-Christian, >> right? But I mean, in Jewish tradition, they think that the Temple Mount is the place where all this happened.
>> Yeah. Well, the the Adam being buried at Goltha that predates >> that for sure. But that the idea of like the the place of the sacrifice of Isaac and kind of like the the place where heaven touches earth, right? It would have been the temple mount.
>> Um but I mean it's definitely fascinating. One thing to say about, you know, this idea of the body that shines light, you know, and this idea of the body as crystal, you know, one of the problems with a lot of young earth creationist types when they try to interpret things too scientifically is really the issue that, you know, and I and I struggle because I don't like talking about this, but I'm going to talk about it now for once is when people say there was no death before the fall and you see that I mean the fathers say that there was no death before the fall. It's like okay you know like everything about your body like not your cells die your right your your hair is dead like you know you excrete you all of these are death processes so it's like the body of Adam before the fall without death or even the animal bodies without death how would you even think or describe that uh you know and in some ways the only way of doing it would be something like gold or crystal or some material that in some ways doesn't decompose. You like gold would be a good example. It's like you say they have golden bodies for example or bodies that are made of light, you know, and then you're almost like you're kind of in a new age. If you're not careful, you're like in a weird new age space. So I actually prefer not to think about it too much and to use beautiful analogies to help us understand. But the idea that they're emanating light means that for sure whatever body we're talking about, these are not these are very different qualities of bodies.
>> Yeah. Different. Yeah. Yeah. different in some way. Yeah. Um >> because like don't don't bring us there.
We're >> like, "Oh boy, we're Yeah. Yeah. Uh definitely no microlastics at this point.
>> No microlastics in the in the Garden of >> Eden." Yeah. For certainty. Yeah. Yeah.
So um there he was arrayed that is there in Jerusalem. He was arrayed in the apparel of sovereignty. And there was the crown of glory set upon his head.
And there he was made king and priest and prophet.
And there did God make him to sit upon his honorable throne. Capital uh lowercase H in this case. So like Adam's throne, right? Yeah.
>> That is he's making Adam Lord of creation.
>> Yeah.
>> And there did God give him dominion over all creatures and things. And all the wild beasts and all the cattle and the feathered fowl were gathered together and they passed before Adam and he assigned names to them. Right? Uh again, this is all just and this is all there in Genesis. You know, they're not making anything up. It's just sort of, you know, if you hear something like Adam was was set to be, you know, king and priest over creation, it would have been obvious to the people reading Genesis for the first time. Whenever you think that happened in history, I don't care, but it would have been obvious to those people that when Adam is given the the task of naming the animals, that that is a priestly and a kingly act. Yeah.
So they passed before Adam and he assigned names to them and then uh get excited everybody. They bowed their heads before him and everything in nature venerated him that is Adam and submitted themselves unto him.
>> It's a lion king but then it's the real >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> I mean it's so perfect but that that's what receiving a name means, you know?
It's like it's actually submitting yourself to the authority that is naming you. So, you know, whether you think whether you can see it in your mind as the animals bowing or not, that's what they were doing. Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah. Um and then the angels and the host of heaven heard the voice of God saying unto him, "Adam, behold, I have made thee king and priest and prophet and lord and head and governor of everything which hath been made and created, and they shall all be in subjection unto thee, and they shall be thine, and I have given thee power over everything which I have created." Right?
And when the angels heard the speech, they all bowed the knee and venerated him. Now, accept, right? Yeah. Accept.
>> Now, when I mentioned this the other day, somebody's like, "Oh, that's just a Muslim tradition. We're not Muslims. We don't believe that." And I'm like, "Guys, contrary to what the Muslims will tell you, the Quran did not fall fully formed from the sky." um they got a lot by sort of copying notes from Syrian Christianity.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and this is one such case, one such example when the prince of the lower order of angels. So there is a a an explanation um in some of the commentary tradition that um the uh that the the devil is the prince who set over the lowest order of of the angels, right? um and that basically it's his order that falls >> you know all kind of altogether with him. When the prince of the lower order of angels saw what great majesty had been given unto Adam, he was jealous of him from that day. And he did not wish to venerate him. And he said unto his hosts, "You shall not venerate him, and you shall not praise him with the angels. It is me that ye should venerate me because I am fire and spirit, and not that I should worship a thing of dust, which has been fashioned of fine dust."
Now note here the very important kind of uh gloss that's happening on the book of Hebrews which says that he makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire. Yeah.
>> Right. Which is quoting the Psalms.
>> Um so you have angels who are spirits of fire. Right. Makes his angel spirits and his ministers a flame of fire. But then it says and you have made man a little lower than the angels. That is he's made of matter.
>> But then you have crowned him with glory and honor.
>> Right? So you have all that still. It's just it's happening in here, guys. It's all happening right here. Now, obviously, this happens, let's say, twice >> because it will then again happen with Christ, right? Who becomes man and who is then crowned with glory and honor and and restores us to our place, that is restores humanity to our place of of governance, of rule over the cosmos. All right. So uh um and the rebel meditating these things would not render obedience to God. And of his own free will he asserted his independence and separated himself from God. But he was swept away out of heaven and fell. And the fall of himself and all of his company from heaven took place on the sixth day at the second hour of the day. And the apparel of their glorious state was stripped off of them. And his name was called Satana because he turned aside from the right way. And Shada because he was cast out.
And Dia, these are all different names for demons and devils and things like this in the Far East because he lost the apparel of his glory. And behold, from that time until the present day, he and all of his hosts have been stripped of their apparel, and they go naked and have horrible faces. And when Satan was cast out from heaven, Adam was raised up so that he might ascend to paradise in.
You're going to love this, Jonathan. A chariot of fire.
>> Yeah.
>> So that is Adam was created outside of paradise. So the idea is that Jerusalem, the hill, >> you know, the the place of the skull, all those things is it's >> it's on the mountain of paradise, but it's slightly outside.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So he is then placed in a chariot of fire and he ascends up into paradise.
And as soon as Adam entered paradise, obviously Eve with him, he was commanded not to eat of a certain tree, the entrance into heaven took place at the third hour of on the eve of the Sabbath, that is Friday morning. So that let me just say one thing about the charity of fire. This is really important people.
We've kind of lost this >> for example in in some of our traditions like even in our even in my in the way that I see it, you know. So, for example, in God's dog, we have the ascent of Elijah, you know, uh, and then we're actually going to have another ascent later in the story, which that will remain. You'll see what it is. But we show I show it with horses, right?
Because that's how we're used to seeing the these fiery horses that bring them up, >> which is also how we do it in iconography. So, it's not like >> it's totally it's totally fine. But if you know the biblical references, you realize that the chariot is the same chariot that Ezekiel saw. That's the chariot that you ascend into heaven with. And so if you look at early iconography, like very early iconography, they will show the ascent of the prophets. They'll show Christ for example, even in in the Rabula gospels, which are the sixth century gospels.
When Christ ascends, you'll see that he has a cherub underneath him. That's the that's what that's how he ascends on the chariot that Ezekiel saw. And then when you show Elijah going up, you also show him on that chariot. and even Enoch. So, I've actually seen early images of Enoch ascending into heaven and he's ascending on the same chariot as Elijah ascends and the same chariot that Christ ascends in. And so, this is the chariot that is being talked about here in this in this text. And so if you think about this, when you get to this just this random chapter in the book of Kings, when suddenly a fiery chariot appears and and carries Elijah up into heaven, >> what what is this?
>> Again, the original the the very first people who read read the book of Kings, again, whenever you think that happened, I don't care.
>> They would have known.
>> They were not like a chariot of fire. I have never heard of such a thing.
>> Right.
>> That's right. Exactly. Yeah.
>> And then you sort of think about Okay.
And then when Yahweh appears to us, comes on a chariot, >> it's like, okay. So there's uh Right.
>> Um >> and then it says that that that God rides the cherubim across the heavens.
Like this is the same thing like whether you understand it as being on the back of the cherubim with your with it's a chariot with four cherubs like these and or where it's the ark of the covenant with the two cherubs. These are the chariots like these are the chariots of God you know on which he on which he manifests himself.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> And through which we ascend.
>> Right. Right. That's that's the point I want to drive home is that when when Ezekiel sees Yahweh the God of Israel on a chariot what he sees is the son of man.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
>> Yeah. You know, well who is man? Man is Adam, right? who's he who he sees Christ, right? This is this is the same same chariot. Um uh now there's a little aside here in the commentary tradition about the creation of Eve. Um and uh and also something about paradise. So I'll I kind >> feel like you're already embarrassed >> about the creation of Eve.
>> Yeah, maybe not.
>> No, not at all.
>> Not at all.
>> Not at all. Um uh but I I actually do want to sort of like uh Okay, so every I have to talk about my childhood. I'm talking about my childhood again today >> because you have to sort of understand like there are all these things just kind of like floating around in the air growing up as like a fundamentalist Baptist >> and then and then like you know decades later you're like reading ancient Syrian stuff and you're like oh I've always believed that was true because that's what I always thought as a child but like here's the here's where this came from. So, here's another example. Um, in my tradition, weddings were like 90 minutes, 120, like like like hour and a half to two hours for a wedding, which is >> too flipping long, especially if it's your wedding, >> cuz the sermon was an hour probably >> because the sermon was an hour.
>> That's right. And and uh every single wedding sermon, every single wedding sermon, they would say things like >> so Eve, you know, when God made a help meat for man, he didn't take, you know, a bone from Adam's head so that he would be over Eve. And he didn't take it from his foot so he'd be so be over Adam. He didn't take it from his foot so he'd be under, but he took it from Adam's side so that so that Eve would be his helpmate.
>> Yeah. Well, here I have to direct you to the commentary tradition which says God did not make Eve of Earth so that she would not be considered something alien to Adam in nature. That is so now Adam is actually the thing bringing forth according to his kind. Right.
>> Yeah. Um, and he did not take her from Adam's four parts that she might not uplift herself against him, nor from his hind parts, that she might not be accounted despicable, nor from his right side, that she might not have preeminence over him, that she might not seek authority over him, nor from his feet that she might not be trotten down and scorned in the eyes of her husband.
He took her from his left side, for that sight is the place which unites and joins both front and back. Further, God did not form Eve from Adam's head that she might not carry her head proudly, nor from his eye that she may not be overcurious, nor from his ear that she might not be an eavesdropper.
It seems like somebody's working through something here. Nor from his mouth that she might not be gossiping, nor from his heart that she might not be quarrelome, nor from his hand that she might not touch everything with her hand, nor from his feet that she might not rove about, etc., etc., etc. That's from a a midrash. The point is uh fundamentalist wedding sermons based actually um yeah >> it's just it's just so fun. It's just so fun. Okay, so um the other thing I want to mention here is the the the description of of paradise.
Um which is okay. So we talked about how Jerusalem is sort of like it's on the like you could say like the foothills of paradise and then Adam is carried up into paradise. It says, "Now this paradise was was situated on a high range of hills and it was 30 spans according to the measurement of the spirit."
So 30 spans according to the measurement of the spirit >> of the spirit. That's the that's the kind of measurement you know precise >> like you do. Uh higher than all the high mountains and it surrounded the whole earth.
>> Yeah. There you go. That's the sand right? You see that obvious right there.
Right. So >> paradise is at the center but it also completely encompasses everything.
>> Yeah. So paradise is everything really.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That's right. Well, I mean we know that you know >> here at the symbolic world we know that the paradise paradise is everywhere.
>> Yes. And uh there's there's a lot of I mean tons of stuff in the commentary tradition. I would uh recommend people who are curious about this uh this this this idea of paradise being a place that kind of is kind of outside of the world but then also encompasses the whole world. Um you can uh you can read St. Ephraim's commentary on Genesis which is collected in that St. Vladimir's Seminary Press edition from uh uh uh well of of St. Efron's hymns on paradise. It has his commentary on Genesis in the back. Um so anyway, there's lots of commentary about all of this um and um things like you know descriptions of paradise uh uh the keepers of paradise being Enoch and Elijah etc etc etc right all this different stuff. Now in case you were wondering what is this Eden thing about? What is this paradise thing about? We will tell you Eden is the holy church and the church is the loving kindness of God which he was about to extend to the children of men. For God according to his fornowledge knew what Satan had devised against Adam. And therefore he set Adam beforehand in the bosom of his compassion, even as the blessed David singketh concerning him in the psalm, saying, Lord, thou has been an abiding place for us throughout all generations.
That is to say, that thouast made us to have our abiding place in thy compassion. And when in treating God on behalf of the redemption of the children of men, David said, remember thy church which thou did acquire in olden time, that is to say, remember thy compassion which thou art about to spread over our feeble race. Eden is the holy church, and the paradise which was in it is the that is the walled garden is the land of rest and the inheritance of life which God hath prepared for all the holy children of men. And because Adam was priest and king and prophet, God brought him into paradise that he might minister in Eden, the holy church, even as the blessed man Moses testifith concerning him, saying that he might serve God by means of priestly ministration with praise that he might keep that commandment which had been entrusted to him by the compassion of God. And God made Adam and Eve to dwell in paradise.
True is this word? And it proclaimeth the truth that the tree of life which was in the midst of paradise prefigured the redeeming cross which is the true tree of life and this and and this it was that was fix uh this is it which was fixed in the middle of the earth.
So >> very basic Christian imagery here actually >> that the church is paradise that is paradise is where God dwells right paradise is to be in paradise means to be in the compassion to be in the loving kindness of God that that that that that's what it means to be like in the womb in the bosom of the church and that within the church there is the cross and the cross is the real true veritable tree of life which is also the fixed turning point of the earth.
>> Yeah. And you think about the if you think about just imagistically you imagine for example the cross on Mount Golgoa and you think of it as a kind of rotation axis like it's the this is the actual axis of of the world. when you go to um to Jerusalem in the church of the holy sepulcher, there's a space in between the uh in between the the uh the altar of the church inside the holy sepiler and the um and the tomb that is like a little flower on the ground and it's like this is the this is the center of the world folks.
So, one of the one of the things that I want to mention here is is that if if I were to take one of the um I've been thinking about this a lot because we are planning later this year on doing uh um similar to your symbolism master class, we're going to be doing a universal history masterass later this year. Um, and the reason I want to do this is because, you know, a lot of times we do like these videos. And to be totally honest, these videos are just me and Jonathan talking about this stuff. And very often it's like, Jonathan, I found a cool thing. What do you think about this? And there's no prep that goes into this. And um, uh, what I would like to do, because a lot of times people, they want more reading, they want more sources and things like this. So what I want to really do is is do a universal history master class which will take everything we've done for the last four years and some change but then do it in a much more detailed structured way. You get the bibliography you'll get the readings we're going to do all that together.
>> Um but when so I've been sort of thinking about okay how do I boil down when we say universal history you know we we have something in particular we mean now on this podcast like on the symbolic world and within our community.
So, I've been trying to boil it down to like a series of statements like if I had to because I found myself having to do this a lot lately. Um, as uh as you know, we we go and maybe speak somewhere or talking we're talking to people who aren't really familiar with what we do and they're like, "Okay, what's this universal history thing?" I'm like, "Okay, I need to like I need to elevator pitch this." So if I were to think about an elevator pitch for the the way that we're trying to help people understand the world, one of the things that I would say is that it is Jerusalem facing. It's Jerusalem oriented. Now the reason that this is important is because uh very often we get um you know we you know when I talk about universal history I like to talk about you know the ancient world but very often we get people like okay well what about America or what about you know Australia or what about South Africa or what about you know East Asia you know all these different things um and it's not to say that none of those things have a place you know in the framework and we I've tried to show how they do and maybe not always to people's satisfaction But the point is that um the reason that we start here and the reason we spend so much time here is because Jerusalem is the center right that is the the thing why because that's where the cross is right and so that's the in it's a spatial orientation but it is also a chronological orientation which is to say that when Christ comes he comes in the fullness of time which is to say you should not think of history as being like you know this arc that's moving just like has a beginning and then it has this end that it's moving toward but rather you know we've talked about there's other ways to talk about like a spiral moving upward but one way to think about it is very simply all of history is moving towards the incarnation of Christ and the crucifixion and what is past to us and what is you know future to us all those things are actually have as their centerpiece or their culmination the fullness of time that that is you know when time reaches its its fullness um its tilos is the is the the incarnation, the crucifixion, the resurrection of Christ, right? And so whenever we talk about the escaton in in an orthodox context, you know, we're we're we're always, you know, that's always our framework for talking about it, right?
So it's not to say that people, you know, um, since the very beginning of Christian history and before that have not always been very, you know, every generation has its apocalypse watchers, >> you know, you know, you know, like, you know, in Christ's own time, this is, you know, some of the qu a lot of the questions that he has to answer like when is the end coming, right? You know, and and uh but but the the the fullness, the fulfillment, right, came at the incarnation. So that's a spatial orientation as we see here, but it's also a chronological orientation.
All right, so we're at just over an hour, Jonathan. Um, the good news is we're one week into the first thousand years of human history.
>> Um, I mean, do you want We could stop or we could at least do like the next step, which let's do up to >> Yeah, let's do the fall and Adam's expulsion from Paradise. Let's Let's go up to the death of Abel if we can. We'll make a little bit longer video for people today.
>> Yeah.
>> Um because this is going to set up a whole lot.
>> Um all right. So when Satan saw that Adam and Eve were happy and joyful in paradise, that rebel was smitten sorely with jealousy and it became filled with wrath. By the way, if you ever just find yourself unhappy that other people are happy, >> this is a good you should have, >> you know, good good time to just like, you know, maybe maybe uh uh this will be a funny pun in a moment. Uh but this is a good time to take a look in the mirror. All right. So, he went up is like, what is he talking about? and he went up and he took his abode in the serpent and he raised him up and made him to fly through the air to the skirts of Mount Eden whereon was paradise. All right, so it's I always had this insight that the snake was flying and in medieval images they always show him with the legs and I was like no he's got to be a flying snake and in in uh and so uh in uh in some of some of the I wrote this script with Greg Herurwitz about Genesis and we had him as a flying snake and I was like this is the right move. Anyways, it's okay. We're gonna talk about the leg thing.
>> Okay. He also has legs later.
>> By the way, if you have a serpent with legs that also flies, what does that sound like? Anybody out there? Any guesses?
>> There's a word. There's a word. I don't know what it is >> in the comments. I don't know.
>> The funny thing is like when Father Steven D. Young says, this is my second time that I mentioned him, so I got to make sure I don't do it a third time where he has to come on the podcast, but >> Oh, no.
>> Um, yeah. Uh, oh no. uh uh when he says something like oh the serpent in paradise is a dragon and this is connected to a saraph which is depicted as a flying fire and so on there there's always somebody who's like oh that's not actually what the you know guys if I were to draw for you a serpent with legs that is flying what would you call that >> no all right anyway so this will all relevant when we talk about Persian dragons in like 12 episodes, guys. I promise. It's just like all it's all it's all moving towards the universal history of Persian.
>> Now, why did Satan enter the body of the serpent and hide them himself therein?
Because he knew that his appearance was foul and that if Eve saw his form, she would take betake herself to flight straightway before him. Now, the man who wished to teach the Greek language to a bird. All right, so now we're getting a little analogy. All right. So is this is a famous story from the ancient world about a man who taught a parrot to speak Greek. Okay. So this is what's being referenced.
Uh now the bird that can learn the speech of man is called the parrot. Uh first bringeth forth a large mirror and place it placeth it between himself and the bird. He then beginth to talk to the bird and immediately the parrot heareth the voice of the man. It turneth round, and when it seeth its own form reflected in the mirror, it becometh pleased straightway, because it imagineth that a fellow parrot is talking to it.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Then it incliniteth its ear with pleasure, and listen to the words of the man who is talking to it, and becometh eager to learn and to speak Greek. I have never taught a parrot Greek. I cannot tell you if this works, but this is like an ancient kind of fable. All right. In this manner, that is with the object of making Eve believe that it was the serpent that spoke to her. Did Satan enter and dwell in the serpent? And he watched for the opportunity. And when Eve when he saw Eve by herself, he called her by her name. And when she turned round towards him, she saw her own form reflected in him. I told you guys the mirror thing was going to come up.
>> And she talked to him and Satan led her astray with his lying words because the nature of woman is soft or yielding. All right. So that's amazing. So I mean that she heard it from herself.
>> What is the witch's I'm going to do a little symbolic world plug here. What is the witch's first gift to Snow White?
>> Uh it's what is it? The the belt, right?
>> Okay. What is one of the witches I I actually don't remember the order, but was one of the witches gifts to Snow White before the apple >> is the is there's a there's a corset and a M. There's also a mirror in some versions of Do we have a mirror in our not in my version, Jonathan?
>> But it makes sense that there would be a mirror because it's all about that. It's all about >> all these things, right? The belt, the comb, and so on. These all have to do with vanity. I should know the book that we published, which I have actually right here next to me. But I also there's like 40 versions of Snow White, by the way, you guys. There's >> so much Snow White. And the the the worst version, by the way, in case anybody's wondering, is the Italian version of Snow White in which uh the story proceeds, like you would expect, right up till when she moves in with the dwarves. And then the town's people hear that Snow White is shacking up with like a bunch of guys in a cabin in the woods.
And so they come and they burn the house down and they kill Snow White and all the dwarves. And and that's the end of the story.
Um, and uh that's the that's the the obvious moral to the story, you know, I guess. But um that's that's uh uh uh that is one of the versions. So just by the way, when everybody's like, "Well, that's not the official version of Snow White." Like >> the brothers Grim did not write these stories. I don't know how you think this worked, but anyway. Okay. All right.
Sorry.
>> Okay. Back to the mirror. So she hears it from herself.
>> So she hears the temptation from herself.
>> That's beautiful. Yeah.
like which by the way sort of implies that the serpent is kind of like mirrored or shimmering again, you know, by the way, which is quite interesting.
>> And when Eve heard from the from him concerning that tree, straight away she ran quickly to it. She plucked the fruit of disobedience from the tree of transgression of the command, and she ate. And immediately she found herself stripped naked, and she saw the hatefulness of her shame, and she ran away naked, and hid herself in another tree, and covered her nakedness with the leaves thereof.
And she cried out to Adam, and he came to her, and she handed him some of the fruit which she had eaten, and he also ate thereof. And when he had eaten it, he also became naked. And he and Eve made girdles for their loins of the leaves of the fig trees. And they were arrayed in these girdles of ignaminy for 3 hours. At midday, they received their sentence of doom. And please brace yourself for this, Jonathan, because I will need help. All right, here we go. God made for them tunics of skin which was stripped from the trees. Oh, that is to say of the bark of the trees because the trees that were in paradise had soft barks and they were softer than the bicus and the silk where from the garments worn by kings are made. And God dressed them in the soft skin which was thus spread over a body of infirmities.
>> Wow. This is the very first time that I hear something like this. And so yeah, >> so they're and so they're made out of the bark of the tree. So like there I've seen it in in Africa the pygmies for example wear what we call bark cloth which is which is basically like bark that has been stamped down and made be flexible and they wear it over their loin. So you know this is exists for sure.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And the focus still here is like their body of infirmities that is something has changed about their bodies. But but it's interesting here obviously what I would have been told growing up is like God killed an animal >> and the garments of animals. That's definitely the tradition that is the most that is that is the most known. But I love I kind of like this tradition.
>> Um you know I mean you one of the things that I've intimated too is that there's this relation if you think about the garden you can often think of it only as a tree because you have the the you know you have the the tree of life you know as the the the axis of the tree and then and then you have the tree of the knowledge of Geneva as the branches. You have the fig leaf and the leaves and then you have the thorns which are at the end the consequence of the fall. But you know the idea that you know the leaves were in some ways still too flexible and that they needed something that was more was tougher and harder and then you use the periphery like the actual periphery of the tree. I mean it's an it's very similar to the symbolism of the of the garments of skin. that the garments of skins kind of extend that into the idea of death which I think is a more powerful image for sure.
>> There's some interesting stuff here in the Ethiopian commentary tradition on this. Um for instance uh uh um okay so the whole reason it's important that that okay there's a couple of things going on here which will kind of explain why they pars the story out in this way. One thing is that St. Nephraim is very clear in his hymns on paradise and then also again in the commentaries on Genesis um there's this ancient tradition that obviously predates that there are no beasts in paradise.
>> Yeah.
>> So when the serpent enters the garden when the serpent end so there's there's there's the there's the garden of paradise and then there's the rest of the world right so you can see how like all of the world is in paradise but then within all the world is within Eden but then within paradise itself there's no beast. So, Adam is created outside of paradise and that is where he uh he names the animals and then it says the Lord placed him in a garden. Well, how does he do that? He does it through the fiery chariot, right?
>> Yeah. He brings them in.
>> So, there's no beasts in paradise.
Paradise is made for man, right? In the same way that we don't like let animals in the church, right? You know, and so, uh then what >> there's a more elegant solution than the bark of a tree though, which is the the serpent skin. That's the most elegant solution.
>> Yes. Get into your time machine. Go back.
>> No, but there are traditions that the the guards and were were servants skins.
I didn't know that. That's crazy.
>> Oh, that's in Aronowski. That's what they show in the in the Noah story. Oh, >> you know how Noah has this like skin and >> I never never saw that movie.
>> I know. You probably you should watch it. You know, it's crazy, but you should watch it. But, uh, yeah, there are traditions about how it makes sense because the the the serpent sheds its skin and therefore >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. Yeah, >> also because of like the skins of the Leviathan at the end of the world too.
This is like a connection, >> right? Is there any connection to any graphic novels you might be working on there?
>> Yes, of course. cuz there's like you know I mean it obviously in the in God's dog the garments of skin are where the most one of the most important plot you know elements which is that we see the garments of skin as the very first relic or the very first kind of artificial thing that exists in the world and therefore has all the power of civilization in it you know uh and so we definitely go for this idea of the hairy like the hairy garments in in God's >> so so the the explanation for why there's No, the the understanding that that the in this commentary tradition they are conceiving of there are no cre and it it is really based on a very close reading of Genesis. Okay, they're not just making this up, but this this idea that the that the garden itself is made for man. There's no beasts in the garden. So >> in order for Satan to get in like he's got to get a beast and then sort of use it to enter the garden. And so this kind of explains some of the different details. So there are um in the Ethiopian tradition there's these ideas that for instance um um Satan is is going around trying to find a beast that he can enter into paradise on and it's not working. Like he he uh uh he applies to the elephant and the lion and the leopard, the hyena, they all turn him down. The wild boar uh actually tries to gore him. Go pigs. And uh and then finally um uh he goes to this uh uh uh he goes to the serpent um which is described um as as maybe having sort of like two legs. Um um it's described as the front part of which is like a camel's fo if you think of like a you know the head and the legs. Um and the creature agrees to help him and then he gets on the serpent or or so possesses the serpent and then is able to use it to get in into paradise. Um, and it also mentions here obviously uh in the uh Ethiopian tradition, the tree of life being the prototype for the cross. This is everywhere in the Christian tradition. I would just have to say like that's that's just pretty much >> for sure. The idea of the animals being outside of the garden and then some of the the serpent coming in. What's amazing about that is that you already see the usurppation that this that the Satan has and that the devil has. So you see an act of usurpation in the very structure of the story. And so it's it's beautiful. It's also very elegant because it has this kind of fract it it kind of exemplifies the fractal nature of it.
>> All right. So at the third hour of the day, Adam and Eve ascended to paradise.
And this is in the ancient world something people were very interested in. It even comes up in Dante. Is how long did Adam and Eve stay in bliss before the violation of the commandment?
Well, according to this commentary tradition, um, for three year, three hours, three hours they enjoyed the good things thereof. And then for three hours they were in shame and disgrace and at the ninth hour. Why is it significant that this happens at the ninth hour?
Because the ninth hour is the hour at which Christ was taken down off the cross.
>> That's right.
>> At the ninth hour, their expulsion from paradise took place. And as they were going forth sorrowfully, God spake unto Adam and heartened him. that has encouraged him and said unto him, "Be not sorrowful, oh Adam, for I will restore unto thee thine inheritance.
Behold, see how greatly I have loved thee, for though I have cursed the earth for thy sake, yet I have withdrawn thee from the operation of the curse. As for the serpent, I have fettered his legs in his belly, and I have given him the dust of the earth for earth for food, and Eve have I bound under the yoke of servitude. In as much as thou has transgressed my commandments, get thee forth, but be not sad. After the fulfillment of the times which I have allotted to you, you shall be in exile outside paradise in that land which is under the curse. So paradise is not under the curse. It's the land outside that's under the curse. And behold, I will send my son and he shall go down from heaven for thy redemption. And he shall shall sojourn in a virgin and shall put on a body of flesh and through his him redemption and a return shall be affected for thee.
But command thy sons, and order them to embalm thy body after death with myrr, casia, and a staki, and they shall place thee in this cave, where am I am wherein I am making you to dwell this day, until the time when your expulsion shall take place from the regions of paradise to that earth which is outside it. And whosoever shall be left in those days shall take thy body with him, and shall deposit it on the spot which I shall show him in the center of the earth. For in that place shall redemption be affected for thee and for all thy children. And God revealed unto Adam everything which the son would suffer on behalf of him. So all of this is tradition that that Adam is buried in a cave under >> Goltha >> on Golgtha. So when Goltha is the place of the skull, that is to say it's the place of Adam's skull, right? the place of a man, right?
>> Um, so there's there's a couple of things here. Obviously, this is an extended gloss on the the prophecies which happened at the time of the of the curse, right? You know, the the the seed of the woman, you know, uh, trampling down the serpent and so on. Um, and so it says, "When Adam and Eve had gone forth from paradise, the door of paradise was shut and a cherub bearing a two-edged sword stood by it." Um and uh Adam and Eve went down in this uh there's a lacun in the text um over the mountains of paradise and they found a cave in the top of the mountain and they entered in and hid themselves therein.
So the cave this cave is going to be important for the rest of the story the next few episodes.
>> Yeah.
>> This cave is on the outskirts of paradise. that is it is in the sort of like if paradise is a mountain uh which is something we've been assuming you all understand out there in the audience please see every other video on this channel >> it is in the Bible you know but anyway if if uh if you're curious about that we've talked about that lots of other places Jonathan has been talking about that >> a long long long time >> um so paradise is mount so the idea is that that this is a cave that's sort of like on the slopes of paradise or in the foothills so this is a very important idea which is that when Adam is expelled from paradise, he sort of like goes out and he dwells in the uh in the sort of like the outer regions outside the gate of paradise, but he's not quite all the way out in the world of death yet. So, he is in the world, but but it's there's grades to it. This will be really important for understanding a lot of the early uh uh uh uh Jewish and Christian traditions about Adam and Eve going forward.
Now, um um Adam and Eve were virgins, and Adam wished to know his wife. And Adam took from the skirts of the mountain of paradise gold and myrr and frankincense, and he placed them in the cave, and he consecrated it that it might be the house of prayer for himself and his sons. And he called the cave the cave of treasures. So, Adam is made to be the priest of the world and he's been expelled from the the the temple that is from paradise. He's been sent out into the world. And so, what he does is he takes this cave and he sets it aside as a as like a little Eden. So, he takes the the fragrant things and the beautiful things from the outskirts of the mountains of paradise, the things that remind you of paradise even though they're more material. Mhm.
>> Gold, myrrh, frankincense, any um what could those >> I don't know what what what did what yeah why would you have those >> I don't what those three things specifically I don't know we'll come back to that maybe it'll come up again later >> in a few thousand years >> perhaps when we're talking about Persia in a few episodes but in any case in any case yeah >> um so he takes uh takes these things and he sets them in why because those are now like relics of paradise and he places them in the cave and the cave becomes the first temple it becomes the first place of worship Now, this detail is not obviously in Genesis.
Um, got children barging in. I forgot to lock the door in my studio. Uh, he this is obviously this is not in the specifically in Genesis. But one thing that you do find in Genesis is that already by the time we get to the story of Cain and Abel, which is what we're about to cover next. Um, uh, you find uh, uh, Cain and Abel are offering sacrifice. Well, how and where and what does that look like? Right? Those are obvious questions that you might want to ask, right? And so this is kind of again we're we're kind of glossing this. So Adam and Eve went down from that holy mountain. So they still have the the cave is up here and Adam and Eve are going down here to live and they're still not all the way down here. So they're again these grades. So the idea is you still have this idea you're going up the mountain of the Lord, right?
You're going up to the cave. You're going up to paradise to worship God.
>> So they went down from that holy mountain of Eden to the slopes which were below it. And there Adam knew his wife. Um and and Eve conceived and brought forth Cain and Laba, his sister, with him.
>> Oh yeah.
>> You guys remember Cain's sister, right?
>> Yeah. I mean, you know, she got he had to have a sister somewhere.
>> And Eve conceived again, and she brought forth Abel and Kelly, his sister, with him. You guys remember Abel's sister, right?
And when the children grew up, Adam said unto Eve, "Let Cain take unto wife Kelmath," that is Abel's sister, who was brought forth with Abel, and let Abel take to wife Leuda, who was brought forth with Cain. By the way, sometimes the names of the sisters get switched.
But the important thing is there's >> that they married the sister, the one that was born with the other.
>> Yes. Right. And Cain said unto Eve's mother, "I will take to wife my twin sister."
Yeah. This is not good. and let Abel take the to wife his twin sister Kellmth. Now Leua was beautiful. And when Adam heard these words which were exceedingly displeasing unto him, he said, it will be a transgression of the commandment for thee to take to wife thy sister who was born with thee.
Nevertheless, take ye to yourselves fruits of the trees and the young of sheep, and get ye up to the top of this holy mountain. Then go ye into the cave of treasures, and offer ye up your offerings, and make your prayers, and then you shall consort with your wives.
And it came to pass that when Adam, the first priest, and Cain and Abel, his sons, were going up to the top of the mountain, Satan entered into Cain and persuaded him to kill Abel, his brother, because of Lebuda. So, this is one of the >> Oh, wait. So, so this is because of the sister >> over a girl man always.
>> It's not about sacrifice.
>> Well, it is about sacrifice because they're going up to because it says, "And because his offering was rejected and was not accepted before God, whilst the offering of Abel >> Okay. In this version, the offer is rejected because of his of his desire to transgress the >> the sacrifices that they're offering are are um uh go along with the wedding basically, right? So, it's like you're going to be married and in order for us to do this, we have to go offer a sacrifice first.
>> Um and so, all I can say is suck it, Gerard Bros. I told you everything doesn't start with a murder. It starts with a wedding. Then you can have murder after that. But everything starts with a wedding. Anyway, no, sorry. Just don't just just giving giving you guys a hard time. Um, all right. So, so those two things kind of go together. And the reason that Cain's offering is not accepted is because he has this impure desire when he's offering the sacrifice, which is essentially, I know they're all brothers and sisters, but the way that the story treats it is you have a brother, sister, brother. It's like it's an incestuous desire, right?
Um, whilst the offering of Cable was objected, Cain's jealousy of his a brother Abel was increased. So is like, man, Abel's getting everything. He's getting the the girl that I want. He's getting God's attention and favor, all these things. So when they came down to the plane, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and he killed him with a blow from a stone of flint. Um, it's really important also that he came down into the plane. Like when you start to understand this idea of the structure of paradise as a mountain. This idea that like Adam and Eve go down the mountain to have intercourse, right? They kind of go they kind of go to the place where heaven and earth kind of touch down below. And then you know and we still think of that like we most >> people identify sex with night and sleep. Like all of these these kinds of analogies are >> but it doesn't make intercourse like bad. That's not what this is about.
>> No no it just means but but it's like the different thing >> production of body. Like think about it that way. It's like the body, right? Um, and you can start with like the same way he murders his brother.
>> You get you go up to church to get married, right? And then you go back you go back down to the bedroom.
>> That's right. In order to make that's a perfect image. Yeah. And so this idea that then they go down the hill in order for the murder to happen, you know, so that, you know, and also this idea that Abel's blood will go down into the earth, right? It's going down into the earth. It's all these images to remember when you're reading these texts. So then straightway Kane received, by the way, it's a stone of flint. Um, so I guess all those images where uh where where where Kane is hitting him with a rock.
There you go, guys.
>> And it's also like it's like the caveman rock. It's like, you know, >> yeah, I know. It's fun. Yeah.
>> Uh then straightway Cain received the doom of death instead of curses, and he became a fugitive and a wanderer all the days of his life. And God drove him forth into exile in a certain part of the forest of Nod. Now, very important to what we will be talking about in future episodes is that the author of this text situates Nod in Syria, that is to say, northern Iraq.
Um, is well, it doesn't matter right now, but it will come up later. Um, and then Cain took to wife his twin sister, did the thing he was not supposed to do.
>> Oh, no.
>> And made the place. So, he kills Abel and then runs off with her basically and made the place there. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
uh now in this tradition and then in the even the even the older sort of Jewish tradition that's preserved for instance in the book of Adam and Eve or the life of Adam and Eve the next thing that happens is very important to understand which is that Adam carried Abel to the cave of treasures and buried him therein and he sat by the side of the body a lamp which burned night and day and Abel was 15 and a half years old when Cain who was 17 and 12 years old murdered him and Adam and Eve mourned for Abel in great grief for 140 days. So what is Adam doing here? He he takes ad's body back to the church, back to the temple.
>> Yeah.
>> And he places it in there and then he sets a vigil lamp in front of it.
>> Yeah.
>> There's this ancient Jewish tradition which you find attested to for instance in Josephus that Abel is the first martyr. Right? And that the whole story of humanity is the uh is the wicked persecuting the righteous and that's been going on since Cain and Abel. Well, what do you do with a martyr? You put him in put his body in the church and you put a vigil lamp in front of it, right? And so Abel's body becomes the very first relic.
>> This is a pre-Christian tradition, right?
And when for instance um uh in in the book of Hebrews and in the epistle of the Hebrews St. Paul says the blood of Christ speaks better things than the blood of Abel. Right? You should be sort of connecting images of the blood of Abel crying out in Genesis, the martyrs crying out from underneath the altar in the heavenly temple in Revelation and Christ crucified, lying in the tomb, his blood, not accusing but actually purifying the earth. All these different things just kind of overlay themselves as as images.
So Adam and Eve mourned for Abel for 140 years. And then Adam knew his wife again, and she brought forth Seth the beautiful, a man mighty and perfect like unto Adam, and he became the father of the mighty men who lived before the flood.
Now, there's going to be a lot more to say about the posterity of Seth, about the death of Adam, um about uh the burial of Adam, about the laws of purity, which Seth will hand down. All of these things I think we'll have to cover in the next episode.
>> Yeah. Um, but this is where we'll get into some there's some really fun and interesting things. This is where we're going to talk about, you know, obviously giants and Nephilim and all those things. Um, and see the kind of the unique way that these things are handled in the ancient Syrian commentary tradition. Um, so we're 130 years now in guys. So we just like 870.
>> Time goes faster.
>> Time goes faster as you get going, right? Yeah. So, >> um, anyway, I hope that this will be helpful. I mean, obviously it's just fun, but I also hope that it will be really helpful to people when you're reading the story of Genesis or when you're understanding like why we do certain things the way that we do as Christians, why we read the Bible the certain ways that we do as Christians. I I hope one of the things that you'll sort of start to understand is that um the ancient Christians, the ancient Jews, the ancient Christians saw the book of Genesis as uh especially these early chapters as basically laying out and I I think this is like your whole deal, Jonathan. uh but just like saw the early chapters of Genesis is basically laying out here's the pattern by which everything in the world is going to function under the you know under the conditions of the fall >> but then also setting up a pattern for what it would look like for us to be restored.
>> Yeah.
>> And in the Christian commentary tradition which comes later they're able to draw on these things but now what do they have the benefit of? Well, now they have the benefit of Christ has come. And so we can see where the cross fits in and kind of connects all of these images and connects these kind of like weird commentary apocryphal traditions and helps us to to kind of make sense of all of these things. Uh because of course the thing that all of this is building up to is Adam will die and then Christ will go down after him. So >> that's right. That's right. All right, folks. This is this has been a lot of fun. This is a great beginning. I can't wait to see where this goes. And obviously, you know, you know, when you already hinted at because we the plan was I told the conservative we should do the universal history of Persia and he said yes. And then he came back to me, he's like, "No, we're going to do this."
He said, "Don't worry, it's going to get to >> it is in fact moving towards Persian stuff like like in surprising ways like there are some things which you guys are simply not ready for. It's going to be very exciting when we get to them." But uh um yeah, but I'm a big fan of, you know, almost every catechism class now.
I think I begin, you know, in Genesis chapter 1. Yeah. It's just like Yeah, this is because everything really kind of is there.
>> That's right. Um, and uh, but but it's it's it's not just a um, I I and I one other thing I'll say is I hope this is a good example of ways that you can uh, read this text like read the read the early chapters of Genesis to be about Christ and about his redemption and about the church, right? And not just this sort of overly materialist, oh no, we got to make sure that, you know, we have a reading of Genesis that beats the reading that the Darwinists have and things like this. like this is this is way cooler guys. This is much more beautiful and uh I also think like much more compelling. So and and at the end of the day I personally believe the world is more like this than it is like those materialist explanations.
>> Yeah.
>> Exactly. That's right. All right everyone, thanks for showing up and uh and we'll be looking forward to the next episode.
>> Christ is risen. Truly is risen.
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