The Conversation Every Daughter Needs to Have with her Mother to Elevate w/ Dr. Robin Moore-Chambers

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]We have to get to a point where we do not allow what's frozen in the past to paralyze us in the present. It paralyzes me in the present when it guides everything about me if I can move forward or not. And parents can stop allowing what froze them back there from paralyzing them today. They are paralyzed in their relationship with their daughter. And they can become unparalized.

[00:00:25]>> They can. Hey babes, I'm Maya Galore and you're listening to Into the Next, where we are becoming, rebuilding, and elevating into the next season and the best version of ourselves. This is the work no one talks about, so if you're listening, you're meant to be.

[00:00:40]Welcome back to the show. I'm so happy to have you guys here. Today is a very, very, very, very special episode because we have a very, very special guest. As we are growing into our very best versions, sometimes we have to tackle some things that are in us, some things that have made us who we are. Who we are now has a lot to do with how we were raised and who our parents were, especially our mother. And a lot of the times conversations actually have to be had and not just within ourselves or with God or with our therapists.

[00:01:14]Sometimes they have to be made with our parents in particular our mothers. But sometimes those conversations and probably most of the time they're not as smooth. They can get tough and they can get painful because while we're trying to become our very best versions, they also are on their journey to become who God has made them to be. And there's a lot of mistakes that can happen along the way. Our topic today will be talking about the journey towards healing and what that looks like for mothers and daughters. And our very special guest today is my own mommy. While I affectionately call her mommy, there's so much more to this amazing woman. Meet Dr. Robin Moore Chambers, a licensed professional clinical counselor, professor, author, singer, musician, and outstanding mother of five. Dr. Robin is the founder, owner, and clinical director at Awakenings Counseling Services LLC, and the creator and illustrator of The Adventures of Dr. Robin Supshiro, a YouTube children's animated series that teaches lessons on character, self-esteem, diversity, and mental health. In her book, emotional wellness, forgiveness, healing, and restoration are needed to live life abundantly. She believes that people can change, be healed, and awaken to every opportunity available to them. And Dr. Robin not only talks the talk, but she walks the walk and is on the show today to share how getting real about her past. and being intentional in her personal journey has not only transformed her relationships with her children, but gave us a blueprint of how to deal with past pain so that it will awaken us to the endless possibilities of our best versions. Hi, Mommy. I'm so happy to have you here. Everyone say hi to mommy.

[00:02:47]>> Hi, baby.

[00:02:48]>> Hi. We have been planning for my mom to come on the show ever since I've been planning out season two. So, I'm really really happy to have her here. Um, >> happy to be here. Yes, I'm so happy. You guys know the journey and everything that I have been on to become my best version. And while I am not there yet, we getting there. A lot of who I am is because of who this woman is.

[00:03:13]>> And one thing that I will just start off to say about my mom, I've seen multiple versions of her throughout my own personal life. And who she is today is light years away from who she used to be. And while I'm sure you're still on a journey to become your best version, are you do you feel like you're closer?

[00:03:32]>> I'm much closer, but I'm I'm still growing. I never stop.

[00:03:35]>> So I see her as a a great version of yourself, even if you don't feel like it's the best. So I want to start off asking you, what is the basis or the foundation of being your best version today, even while you're still moving forward to become even better?

[00:03:50]>> Thanks for the kind words.

[00:03:52]>> You're welcome. I would say a combination a combination of the spiritual and emotional wellness parts of me. Spiritual being my relationship with God and then the emotional wellness that I have accomplished and I am still sitting in that and moving forward. But I have learned the art and the importance of being emotionally stable and emotionally healthy. That emotional wellness is critical. It comes under the umbrella of emotional intelligence and people throw that around a whole lot.

[00:04:22]>> They do. They throw it around and I feel like it's thrown around so much that some people lose they lose the plot of what it actually means. So, can you like expound on what that actually looks like to be emotionally well or emotionally intelligent?

[00:04:33]>> You can say I'm emotionally healthy now.

[00:04:35]You can say it >> right. You can say make your mouth say whatever you want to. I'm a chair, >> right? But that's not going to make you a chair.

[00:04:43]>> It doesn't make me a chair. emotional intelligence uh it's a set of skills that's where I see it it's when you have the capacity and the ability to recognize >> identify and then able to manage your emotions. So your emotional compass is uh it's never just always one place, but you're you're stable, you're mature, you have emotional maturity, you're able to have compassion for others, and you have the ability to even recognize their emotions. You just don't get emotionally healthy overnight. You chronologically, we grow up. We go from 6 to 7 to 8, 24, 25 emotional growth. It takes time. It takes work. It takes intention. It's not a serendipitous journey. You just don't stumble upon it and say, "Oh, by the way, I'm emotionally healthy." Actually, it's just the opposite because life is is is is full of emotions and often people live by the emotions that they're experiencing and with that in the room are places of pain, a trauma, uh a bad relationships. It it all these things have impacted us and it impacts how we move emotionally with ourselves and with others.

[00:05:50]>> Would you say that emotional wellness, emotional intelligence is the same thing? Well, emotional intelligence is the umbrella. Let's look at it that way.

[00:05:59]>> Okay.

[00:05:59]>> It is the adjective how you describe it.

[00:06:02]>> Gotcha.

[00:06:03]>> Allowing emotional wellness and and being emotionally healthy. It's like the noun and the verb. I mean, it's an action word.

[00:06:10]>> Gotcha.

[00:06:11]>> To be emotionally healthy.

[00:06:13]>> Does that does that make sense here?

[00:06:15]>> That makes perfect sense. Okay. People talk about emotional wellness and emotional wellness, emotional stability, emotional maturity. Those are all in the same boat. Gotcha.

[00:06:24]>> Where emotional intelligence is like the umbrella.

[00:06:26]>> So since today we're talking about kind of attacking or what it looks like on that journey when mothers and daughters or parents and daughters have that that pain of the past as they're trying to move forward.

[00:06:38]>> Why do you think it's important to have that emotional wellness or intelligence when you're talking about addressing that pain in those relationships?

[00:06:48]>> It's paramount. Yeah, it's critical in the growth of that relationship to be able to see oneself.

[00:06:56]>> Actually, selfawareness is a hallmark of emotional intelligence.

[00:07:00]>> Yes, Mary and Google, they will they will share with you as well as many of my textbooks, >> right, >> will share with you. It it is about knowing oneself fully to see and know oneself deeply gives you also the capacity to be able to see others. David Brooks has a book out. He's a um a journalist um co-op editor on the Times and has so many books. I love his work.

[00:07:26]He talks about the road to character and becoming a better version of yourself.

[00:07:30]He's talking about almost inventing and creating and perfecting your character.

[00:07:35]But in this other book about knowing oneself deeply and you now have the capacity to know others deeply, to have self-awareness as a daughter and a mother and they're dealing with pain from the past. It is the first thing that needs to be in the room. And if there are spiritual people, they may pray and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not knocking out the fact that we have a spiritual relationships with God or or higher power of whatever the the higher power is for that person. But what I'm saying is that there's work to be done. You have to be able to hear each other. You have to be willing to have hard conversations. We've had some.

[00:08:10]>> Yes, we have.

[00:08:11]>> The mother has to be able to pause and say, "I had you."

[00:08:15]>> Yeah.

[00:08:16]>> You didn't have me. That's right.

[00:08:17]>> And I And I want to listen to you. And there's a scripture that talks about be how important it is to be quick to listen.

[00:08:25]>> Slow to speak.

[00:08:25]>> Slow to speak.

[00:08:26]>> Yeah.

[00:08:27]>> And slow to get angry. And the anger was an emotion. So slow to just let emotions just go a muk.

[00:08:34]>> Absolutely.

[00:08:34]>> A mother might say, "I didn't know that I did that to you. I didn't know that when I did this or that impacted you that way, but I I apologize that it hurt I hurt you that way. I want to hear what you have to say." And there's so many parents that would have the opposite of that where they don't see the issue or they say the things of like that's just who that's just who I am. That's just what I do. Get over it, you know, the best I could. Absolutely. My mother didn't talk to me. I didn't, you know, just get over >> and just write it off. And what's I think what's so detrimental about that is it not only stunts their own growth as a parent. I wouldn't say it limits the growth that the child can have because you can >> it can hinder it.

[00:09:15]>> Yeah. It can hinder it for sure.

[00:09:16]>> I I do believe that despite what has happened to us, >> yeah, >> we as as human beings, we can rise above circumstances.

[00:09:26]>> But don't think for a second it doesn't hinder.

[00:09:29]>> It does. It's a hindrance.

[00:09:30]>> Since we're talking about it to be anybody, but we're talking about mothers and daughters. It hinders that daughter.

[00:09:35]She can still find her places of growth.

[00:09:37]She can still reach the higher levels of emotional intelligence and become the best version. There's a hindrance to her on her journey when her mother does not hear her.

[00:09:49]>> And that's why when I encourage mothers my age and those younger than me and older, take a pause and just listen. I hear people say all the time, God gave us two ears and one mouth. Go figure.

[00:09:59]Listen more than you speak. And then that scripture seems to definitely reflect that. It's a wonderful principle, but it's even better when we live it out.

[00:10:07]>> That's right. And it it it can help the relationship to explore, to discuss, to have dialogue, to cry together.

[00:10:15]>> There's nothing more liberating, I think, is for a mother and daughter to be able to have be able to have we we've had them.

[00:10:23]>> We have to cry in this >> speaking of those conversations.

[00:10:27]>> Yes. Um, I will share I mean you guys know a little bit on the show about you know my past and my divorce and everything and that really really triggering a a season of my life of me trying to get myself to my best version because I did not realize so many things were working within me without my permission. And I when I did the work, sat down to do the work intentionally.

[00:10:50]>> Mhm.

[00:10:51]>> I realized that a lot of that was because of what I saw and what I did not see in my upbringing. And I brought those things to my mom. And that's why I really want to give my mom her flowers because >> Thank you. She has grown to a place, which I know you have not always been in that place, but she's grown to a place to where I can sit down and tell her, "Hey, >> though I'm an adult now, and I take responsibility for my actions, and I have to move forward here, cuz I can't change anything that happened." This, this, that, and the other of what you showed me, the choices you made, what I saw as I was being programmed into a woman, >> that was not good for me. And >> when I had those conversations with you, you were very open. You were very, you know, you had ears to hear, so to speak.

[00:11:38]Ear ears to hear. Absolutely. And it was not a bunch of excuses or blaming it on other people or saying, you know, well, that's just where I was at that time.

[00:11:47]Get over it. Like that was not your disposition. And I'm so grateful for that because that helped me to number one just the fact that it was you're acknowledging it, you know? And >> sometimes that's not an adult child wants. They want their realities acknowledged.

[00:12:04]>> Absolutely.

[00:12:05]>> And sometimes, as I'll quote Jan, that's um >> my sister, >> your sister, my oldest daughter, and my pastor.

[00:12:11]>> Yes.

[00:12:12]>> And she I remember I was going through my my growth period. See, because it didn't happen overnight. And you were a little girl at this time, getting older, maybe junior high or something. And um I I was being healed in some places. And she said, "Mommy, have you gone back and look at that situation with adult lens?"

[00:12:28]M >> I was like, "Well, you know, I see it."

[00:12:31]She said, "Go back and look at it because it happened when you were younger. You were a child and and I actually was able to go back. I did the work." That was wonderful for me because I went back and looked at some places of pain as a child and um I have a history of trauma and pain and abuse in my past, emotional um abuse and some physical.

[00:12:51]And I went back and I looked at my mother and I looked at some situations that had happened and I remembered it as it was because I saw it as an adult.

[00:13:00]There was no longer just one perspective. Yeah.

[00:13:02]>> And it actually it caused me to give my mother a pass.

[00:13:08]>> In some ways it didn't take away some things that happened and there's some some of my pain that my mom was responsible for. But I I I went back and I looked and I looked at her growth and I looked at even her growth. She never used the term best version, but I saw her go to better versions than she was when she was younger. I saw it happen because it's not a serendipitous journey. You don't just stumble upon it.

[00:13:30]No, you don't.

[00:13:30]>> It takes work. It is it is it is it is effort and it must be intentional. And um so you she was working and growing.

[00:13:37]But I look back then and I I've given her a pass in some areas because I don't even know how she did what she did raising 10 children and with daddy and everything that that she went through and then knowing what she went through with her mother.

[00:13:53]>> I went back and looked at it with adult lens and I think that's what you did in some some of those places. See this is the thing. It doesn't make it go away.

[00:14:01]Her parents say well what about me? I was abused or my mother did this. My dad didn't stay. It's important to that person. I don't want to say it's noise.

[00:14:08]>> Absolutely.

[00:14:09]>> But it can become noise because you're not dealing with their issue. They're not they're not saying what happened to you didn't happen.

[00:14:16]>> Yeah.

[00:14:16]>> Here's here's an example. If we're standing in a line and we're busy and you got those heels on and I got these clunker heels and I step on your toe >> and I don't know it cuz I'm in front of you and it's bleeding and and I turn around and see it. I want to just look and say, "Oh, you know, she moved her foot or you know, it is what it is. It's crowded in here."

[00:14:36]>> Exactly.

[00:14:37]>> I owe you an apology. I apologize.

[00:14:39]>> Even though you didn't mean to do it.

[00:14:40]>> Even though I did not intend to do it, it still happened and the blood is there and the result of my actions are upon you.

[00:14:46]>> That's a great analogy.

[00:14:47]>> You like that analogy?

[00:14:48]>> No, I think that's a great analogy a lot because it also it's not you don't just take a rock and throw it and hit the person or throw the rock at their foot.

[00:14:56]You're busy. It's crowds. People bumping into each other. However, harm can happen because of the space and the limited space and and then your toes are out with a big thick heel on my end.

[00:15:06]>> Absolutely.

[00:15:07]>> And I would never turn around and see the blood and say, "Well, >> sorry." You know, >> it happens. You know, it's a crowd in here. And I see that. I see that fear >> in the loss of parents. I'm not always interested. Well, I'm never interested in trying to save people >> or change them. But in the work that I do, um, often I'm a voice of reason and I lead people to theories that they can help them to better understand themselves.

[00:15:31]>> Yeah.

[00:15:31]>> So that they can see >> apology was warranted there.

[00:15:36]>> Absolutely.

[00:15:36]>> And if they do the work, they're going to get there. They don't do the work, they won't get there.

[00:15:40]>> But it's all about doing that work.

[00:15:41]>> It's about doing the work. But first of all, there we are again. Self-awareness to know oneself deeply and to try to learn oneself deeply. It's a wonderful experience.

[00:15:51]>> Yes. It doesn't always feel good.

[00:15:53]>> No, >> but growth is in the room.

[00:15:55]>> It does not always feel good. That's one thing I wanted to point out. It doesn't It's Sometimes it's going to be uncomfortable. Anytime you're being stretched, >> you know, it's going to be uncomfortable, but it's for a good reason. So, you mentioned the work that you do and they got a little bit of a background on you at the beginning of the episode, but as a doctor in counseling and psychology, I know that there's a model that you use for this type of work. So can you explain what that model is that helps mothers and daughters on their journey of healing?

[00:16:25]>> Cognitive behavioral therapy.

[00:16:26]>> Okay. It's widely used uh in field of psychology and counseling and cognitive behavior therapy widely reflected as CBT.

[00:16:35]>> It's counseling model that helps plainly speaking that helps clients and individuals to see the relationship between their thoughts, their feelings and their behavior. M >> it helps uh clients to move away from negative polarized all or nothing dysfunctional thinking. It helps you to recognize that the way that you think about a thing impacts how you feel and behave.

[00:17:00]>> In the midst of that, I remember uh in in in graduate school getting my doctorate and a professor said it's not so much as that it doesn't matter to you what's happened to you. He said but what really affects you is how you think about what happened to you.

[00:17:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a it's a constructive way of thinking. Yes, this happened, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen for the rest of my life.

[00:17:18]Yes, this happened, but doesn't mean that everybody that looks like that person is going to be that way.

[00:17:23]>> Yeah, that's an intentional shift in how you think.

[00:17:26]>> Very intentional. And so, there are strategies with cognitive behavioral therapy that helps people to pay attention to how they think and to re recognize that they don't have to have dysfunctional or negative thinking patterns. It helps you to change negative thinking patterns. There are so many strategies. I want to concentrate on one that I use.

[00:17:45]>> Okay, >> it's called write the letter exercise.

[00:17:47]The write the letter exercise is widely used in many psychotherapies, but I want to just concentrate on the the exercise that I wrote for my clients. You present this letter which helps the client to begin to explore, unveil, maybe even reveal some challenges that have happened along on their their journey. Let's say they have pain with their father or their mother. So they write the letter to that parent >> because it's a clinical therapeutic exercise. Then parent may and may not get the letter. Yeah. But a trained therapist can analyze the letter and then go back and talk about it with the client. There's something about what they wrote first, how they said what they said. So that's a part of analyzing after they do the assignment. The assignment doesn't happen always overnight and it's not it's not always easy. First you just explore what was life like for you far as back as you remember to maybe middle school or high school and then high school on. It's raw.

[00:18:47]>> Mhm. It's just raw writing and then they come we come back and revisit it but it sort of dabbles with the subconscious because some information comes out as you're writing that you were not thinking about.

[00:19:00]>> Absolutely.

[00:19:00]>> And you remember more than you know that you remember in that exercise with going over it you get a chance to really address some areas. Well I didn't think about that. And I never thought about that till I started writing that. And I remember now that house, the chair and everything. It becomes very personal.

[00:19:18]But the goal is um to to help them to begin to recognize how they think about what happened.

[00:19:24]>> Yeah.

[00:19:25]>> Um sometimes you see a difference through a different set of lens. It's in that letter they begin to think differently and recognize their emotions, what they're feeling, and they can get some answers.

[00:19:35]>> Yeah.

[00:19:35]>> It's even better if they can bring it to the parent and the parent and they can discuss it together. Would you say that this is something that both the adult child and the parent can do? Because I you kept mentioning saying that it was a letter to a parent. Where does the parent fit in with that kind of exercise? You feel like they >> would be encouraged to write the same letter, >> but they would be writing it for their childhood.

[00:20:01]>> I love that.

[00:20:03]>> Yeah. They're not trying to find places of where their kid is wrong. Not them.

[00:20:09]Not to say that the adult child is not sometime disrespectful and doesn't know how to have a conversation and just blames blames blames or don't get a chance to give the parent a a an opportunity to to talk with them. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. That happens as well. But this is to bring um to bring unity for them to have these these needed conversations. So when the parent begins to write the letter to their parent, even if their parents deceased, or whoever raised them, they would begin to see patterns, the goal and the prayer is that they would do that exercise with awareness. Let's say a a child, an adult child tells tells the the parent, "You were never there.

[00:20:51]You just weren't there. You weren't present."

[00:20:53]>> Yeah.

[00:20:53]>> And the parent says, "I was always there. I was never I never ran the street. I was always there." Then they do the letter and they recognize that their mother and father was not there >> and then they can recognize in cl in counseling this is this was learned behavior.

[00:21:08]>> Yes. And I did the same thing that I saw.

[00:21:10]>> It's the same thing that happened to me.

[00:21:12]So that is that is a real possibility.

[00:21:15]You definitely can see patterns >> and >> you have to be open to see them.

[00:21:18]>> You do have to be open. You have to be open and willing.

[00:21:21]>> You have to be willing >> cuz some people are not open and willing or will never even get to that point you don't see. they miss the opportunity. It could be something great for them >> for their own growth and their child's >> could change the trajectory of the relationship with their child forever.

[00:21:33]>> Doing this exercise is it something that you have done personally and if so how has it affected you in your own life?

[00:21:42]>> Yes, I did. I did my own exercise. This is one thing about me and I' I've said it and definitely over the last 20 years.

[00:21:51]>> Yeah. I don't want to be that person that creates a model or a theory >> or medication and I didn't take it.

[00:22:01]>> That's right.

[00:22:01]>> I don't I always say I don't want to die and they say how she die. She didn't take the medicine on the table that she invented. So I did my I did my own work.

[00:22:11]I still do my own work.

[00:22:12]>> Yeah.

[00:22:13]>> Because we're forever becoming >> forever. I didn't write the letter the way the exercise is, but I went on a journey back >> and I wrote some notes down and that's really what prompted me to do the letter for others. And I saw some patterns in my upbringing that I some of them I didn't see in my childhood. I mean in my relationship with my children and some I did. More than anything I saw the root of my emotional dysfunction. I had disassociation at one time, a form of amnesia. Some things happen to you, it leaves you sometimes for the sake of because it was too painful. I went back and I saw some things. I was on that journey of self-awareness. Yeah. And I was able to identify why I was the way I was. I made I made apologies to my children and I two sets of children.

[00:22:58]>> The first three set.

[00:23:00]>> Yeah. You're the baby of the second set.

[00:23:02]>> Three years after my brother >> some challenges with me, but not the teenage mother that the first three children had. I made apologies. We had our individual conversations. There's been tears. Um, I'll even say now, you know, if you need to address some things, I'm still willing to have that conversation with you. I I've heard people say, "Well, how long we got to talk about this?"

[00:23:23]>> Man, >> I'm saying >> it's a process.

[00:23:27]>> It's a process if your kid has not found the healing that they need. I recommend that parents to just again pause and listen.

[00:23:36]>> And your child will continue to go through things in life that maybe they they're not there yet. Now they're a parent or married, they'll have something else to bring up when they become a parent if they get divorced like me.

[00:23:47]>> Yeah, there's a respectful way to do it.

[00:23:49]>> Yeah, there is a there is a respectful way to do it.

[00:23:51]>> But the parent can also say, "Hey, you know, you know, I know we've covered this and I've made my apologies and so forth, but you know, if you need to talk about some things, I'm I'm okay. I'm I'm I'm still in that place." Yeah.

[00:24:02]>> I'm not at the place now. Well, I'm a better version of myself now. And I'm I'm Dr. Robin Moore Chambers and I've No, I've not arrived.

[00:24:08]>> Yeah. I don't arrive until I leave this this side of eternity.

[00:24:12]>> That part >> then I'm done here.

[00:24:14]>> There's always more growth to be had.

[00:24:16]There's always more growth to be had.

[00:24:17]Parents have to be really vulnerable. Be willing to be vulnerable to say I can have that conversation with you because now I'm having it with my past.

[00:24:28]>> So what exactly does it look like when this model or you know doing this work, this intentional work is in effect and what's the damage when it's not? M I can imagine it will be damaging if you don't actually do the work and I'm sure a lot of people are living that reality.

[00:24:45]>> It hinders the growth for the relationship of this mom and her daughter >> to move into places of healing.

[00:24:51]>> Mhm.

[00:24:52]>> It hinders that they might stay in relationship and you know here's something for Mother's Day. They don't go beyond the surface. It can affect their closeness and the intimacy. The daughter probably not going to want to lay down next to mom with her head on her shoulder and look at a movie. And and and I know that you might say that's superficial, but no, it's not. It's not.

[00:25:11]>> You do that when you feel that level of comfort.

[00:25:14]>> You need to feel heard. You may know that you're loved. I've heard people say, "I know my mom loves me."

[00:25:20]>> Yeah.

[00:25:20]>> But I know she she can't have that conversation with me.

[00:25:23]>> And but it affects the relationship. It it hinders again it hinders how far into closeness that relationship can grow but also it can trickle down and impact the daughter when she becomes a parent. You can work really hard and say, "I'm not going to do that. Not going to be that."

[00:25:42]And you can and you don't now have you do not have to reflect what you saw and what happened to you. But it can impact the daughter now because she has a mother who's unwilling to go down that path with her >> for sure.

[00:25:55]>> So that they can improve and that's that's hurtful.

[00:25:58]>> Do you think if that is never addressed or if you have those parents who don't see the need to be intentional on the on the child's side? I mean you said that it's not going to limit it forever its hindrance but where can the child go from there you know where do they go from there if your parent is unwilling when you know that these are issues that you have to get past as you try to become your best version where do you go >> I recommend that they go to counseling to talk to someone who understands the psychology of issues and situations someone who hopefully understands the working of the brain understand what trauma and pain does to a person and relationship ships so that they can find understanding. So if you can understand something, I think we can almost deal with anything if we can understand it, no matter how bad it is.

[00:26:46]>> Understanding even can bring some levels of of of of compassion >> and even giving yourself a pass. I understand this and you know you understand this now and I understand why I did what I did, why I responded the way I did. But it's it's hurtful.

[00:27:01]>> It's very hurtful. Uh, I've seen how hurtful it could be, but I've also seen how great it can be when the mom and her, and this could be fathers, sons, everyone, but when a mother and a daughter can have those conversations, >> and the mom can take a pause and the daughter say, "Mom, you do you do do that." And the mom says, >> "I didn't recognize I did that. I thought I had gone beyond that, but I acknowledge your reality and I apologize and I will work on that.

[00:27:32]>> And sometimes that is all that the child wants. I've been there. That's all that's all you want. Acknowledgement of their reality.

[00:27:40]>> Yeah. Your reality is acknowledged.

[00:27:42]>> Yeah.

[00:27:42]>> And that means so much to a person.

[00:27:44]>> It means so much >> because they're they're be like I told you about the book David Brooks book about being deeply seen, seeing yourself deep, seeing others. People need to know that they're seen and heard and understood. That's so important. But yet, we still have to learn to be okay when people refuse to see.

[00:27:59]>> And for those who don't who do refuse to see. So, since we've been mentioning that there are parents and there are are mothers who have that disposition of, well, that's just who I am. Get over it.

[00:28:11]You know what I'm saying? That was in the past. Why you why you bringing it up? Why you worried about it? Just their >> unwillingness to address >> unwillingness. Um for those women who are approached by their daughters or adult daughters with the issues of mom can we talk about this can you help me to debrief like let's go through this so I can figure out how to grow past this for those women what would be your advice for the ones who really don't see the need to expand themselves in this area >> if they allow themselves to awaken to new understandings >> to new mercies every today to move away from lossness. We have to get to a point where we do not allow what's frozen in the past to paralyze us in the present.

[00:28:58]Jam says all the time, the past is not a place of residence. It is a place of difference >> visitation where you visit.

[00:29:06]>> But now it's still with us. James Bowwin said the past in history is with you.

[00:29:11]>> Absolutely.

[00:29:12]>> It it's here. Uh because we bring it with us. Some people think they put things on a shelf. I'mma leave that there. And it's it's good to compartmentalize and say, "I need to deal with this now." But go back and get it and deal with it and don't act like it did happen. This is why it can freeze. It can paralyze us in the present. We can't change what happened.

[00:29:30]>> You cannot change it.

[00:29:32]>> The past is frozen. But if it it paralyzes me in the present, when it guides everything about me, my relationships, interpersonal relationships, romantic relationships, if I can move forward or not, they haunt themselves. And parents can stop allowing what froze them back there from paralyzing them today. They are paralyzed in their relationship with their daughter.

[00:29:56]>> Yeah.

[00:29:56]>> And they can become unparalized. It it is work. We're talking about emotional wellness. That is work. We're talking about um um the the the the emphasis of of spirituality in your life. Having a rel a relationship with God where you define yourself by the way he sees you.

[00:30:13]Yeah. Yeah. And how he wants to see you and how we can learn how to get to that version. All of that opens us. My poem awakenings is a poem that I wrote in 2018. A very major change had happened in my life.

[00:30:26]>> And I was on my path of maturing and becoming better versions. I was doing my internship. It was before I started working with other people. And I'm so happy that I had these series awakening of awakenings before I actually start working with families. And um I've got it here, excerpts of it with me. I would love to read it part.

[00:30:47]>> Yes, please do. Okay. Yes, we need all of the things.

[00:30:51]>> Awaken to the person you want to be, meant to be, or who you can and will be.

[00:30:58]Awaken from the sleep of despair, broken dreams, broken promises. Awaken from fear to try again. Awaken to new opportunities, new journeys, new paths.

[00:31:08]Awaken to self-awareness that liberates you. Awaken to new mercies every day.

[00:31:15]>> Awaken from the dark places that kept you bound, chained, and unaware of your true self. Awaken from put downs, names others gave you and what they did to you. Awaken from bad relationships, wrong choices, and lostness.

[00:31:30]>> Awaken from unforgiveness and selfhatred, but awaken to a new you, a mature and balanced you. Loving you and accepting yourself. Awakenings. awakenings, effortlessly being awake, effortlessly being you.

[00:31:45]>> I love that. Thank you.

[00:31:47]>> That is beautiful. And I feel like it is so on brand with what we're talking about because that sounds like >> a personal letter to someone, a parent in particular. I'm a parent myself >> who maybe is locked in the past, locked in what people have said about them, locked in what happened to you, who did this, who did that, >> and what we've done to ourselves.

[00:32:10]>> And what we've done to ourselves and the only way to get past that for your own growth, but also the growth of your own children is to awaken.

[00:32:20]>> Yeah.

[00:32:20]>> And to be open and willing.

[00:32:24]>> Yes. to hear, to listen, to consider >> or reconsider some things that maybe your mind is telling you is not how it is and consider someone else's reality and look at it through that lens.

[00:32:34]>> Absolutely.

[00:32:35]>> Um that's that's why I feel like that is so >> so timely with this topic. Um because that's important. That's that's so so important to awaken yourself to the possibilities >> and it is possible.

[00:32:48]>> Yeah, >> it is within our reach.

[00:32:50]>> It is within our reach.

[00:32:52]>> Yeah. But we the first step is to say yes to being open and then welcoming in that self-awareness.

[00:32:59]>> Absolutely.

[00:33:00]>> Which triggers that awakening I believe.

[00:33:03]>> Absolutely. It does indeed.

[00:33:04]>> For these mothers who are unaware or unwilling and all of that and we just talked about the past being frozen, but there are things that really are true that happened to us that are very relevant, very important that informs who we are. Mhm.

[00:33:20]>> To me, that sounds like there's a lot happening on the inside in the subconscious.

[00:33:25]>> And so, how do we get to the point of understanding what could possibly be lurking in our subconscious is keeping us bound? How do we how do we get to understanding that so that we can break free?

[00:33:37]>> I think a person has to recognize first that they're bound, >> which is what that poem is about.

[00:33:43]>> We can awaken from that, whether it's a word or not, from that boundness place.

[00:33:48]>> Yeah. We can we can we don't have to stay there. So, we have to recognize something's wrong.

[00:33:54]>> Yeah.

[00:33:54]>> What is going on with me? We ask ourselves those questions >> and most of the times it's it's something that's lurking in the back.

[00:34:02]>> What are would be the signs of you being bound, you know? So, it's like it is >> well, we it take us back to the beginning.

[00:34:10]>> Yeah.

[00:34:11]>> Emotional unhealthiness.

[00:34:13]>> Um trauma bonding in relationships with others. your mom or your dad wasn't there and you're trying to find that in every man and every girlfriend that you you have. You're triggered and you don't know why you're triggered and you don't ask yourself the question, I'm triggered when I smell mothballs. I finally asked myself the question, why am I triggered when I smell mothballs?

[00:34:33]>> Because when I was abused, I hid >> in the closet in the basement of my family home and it smelled of mothballs.

[00:34:40]I didn't remember that then or in my 20s >> for sure. But on my journey of awakenings and being intentional.

[00:34:47]>> Yes. I ask the questions. Why does that bother me, it's awareness, having a highness level of awareness to say, I I don't know what it is, but something's going on with me and now it's happening with me and my child >> and I I I don't want this for my kids life. You ever hear a song and you don't know the song? You haven't sang it in years, but when you b people start singing it, you start singing where you might part.

[00:35:13]>> Yeah. But you know, and it comes because it was always there something triggered and it brought it the sound. Well, that happens with relationships you when you're not healed.

[00:35:23]>> Patterns like you said, >> patterns because you remember remember that. Let's say a woman has a a guy who never kept his word and everything he said he was going to do, he didn't. But then she realized that her mother experienced that with her father.

[00:35:36]>> And then she remember hearing her aunts talk about it with the grandfather.

[00:35:39]>> Yeah.

[00:35:40]>> And so now she meets a real nice guy and he's a good guy and he's on the way to see her and pick her up like you said he's coming and he has a car accident.

[00:35:47]Then when he gets out the car, his his phone gets run over. So she don't really see him till late that night.

[00:35:52]>> Yeah.

[00:35:53]>> And he gets to the door and she said, "I'm done. I'm not I'm not I'm not dealing with this with a man that don't keep his word." So she probably has shut down because these are the stories in her mind. He didn't do what he said. He didn't do what he said. And so so now he doesn't even get a chance to say my phone was ran over. I had an accident.

[00:36:13]Nobody wants to come on the side of the road. Somebody finally let me use their phone. Instead of going to get a phone, I came straight here.

[00:36:20]>> Yeah.

[00:36:20]>> Well, I'm going to bed now. You know, I'll talk to you later. That person's locked away from the pain of their past that they never dealt with. They just believed that's what will also happen and that's now they accept this is what has happened to me. Let's just say he was the one. I I I know that might sound like an extreme example >> but it is very real when you when you are locked into your pain and you've not got your help and you're not healed and you >> rehearse that pain and relive it when you think you're seeing that again.

[00:36:53]Sometimes you're seeing it, sometimes you are not. So clearly you have done the work when it comes to Yeah. still doing it. Um when it comes to you know the emotional wellness as well as looking into your subconscious or deep diving into trying to understand what's in your subconscious. How has understanding your own subconscious and having an improved emotional intelligence, emotional wellness been instrumental in improving and sustaining your own relationship with your own children?

[00:37:27]>> I have grown a lot >> over the years, exponentially over the last 20, but especially over the last 15 years >> and a whole lot over the last eight or nine years.

[00:37:38]>> Yeah.

[00:37:39]>> And I did the work. I knew that I was about to begin to work with others and I went to my own therapist. I wanted to make sure that I would not become a vigilante in working with hurting people because I've been hurt >> of course >> and I faced trauma in my life. Trauma and pain. And that's when I began to say I will no longer allow what's frozen in the past to paralyze me in the present.

[00:38:04]And so in my relationship with my children, I have regrets for some things >> for sure, >> but I don't live on regret street. And I definitely don't live on guilt street.

[00:38:15]There are some regret, some things I still say, I wish this had not happened.

[00:38:19]If there's ever a time that I wish something could be different, I wish I was an emotionally healthy mother from the very beginning.

[00:38:25]>> Yeah.

[00:38:26]>> Emotionally healthy, spiritually healthy. But but I still don't live there. So I don't live in regret and guilt. Because I'm continuing to perfect myself. I leave myself open for my children, my adult children to always talk to me, with me, or sometimes I'm just a ear.

[00:38:43]>> Yeah. And I can I can second that. I'm one of your kids. So that's very true.

[00:38:47]>> I want my children to know I'm there.

[00:38:49]I'm present. I'm here for you. I don't make my children feel responsible for my pain. I don't want them to be a surrogate husband for me >> or to fill voids in my life that that that are not there. God does that for me.

[00:39:05]>> Yes, he does.

[00:39:05]>> And and then I do my part, too. I like me now. That's right. I love me now. I no longer live in places of low self-esteem and uh self-hatred. One thing that helps me also is I no longer hate the person I used to be.

[00:39:21]>> That's a big one. I can relate. I learned that it took the good, the bad, the happy, the challenging. It took all of that to make this.

[00:39:32]>> Yes.

[00:39:33]>> And I'm not done.

[00:39:34]>> I'm better than I've ever been. I recognize that >> I I've forgiven myself and I've forgiven her. But I don't deny that she existed.

[00:39:43]Cuz without her, I this wouldn't be me.

[00:39:45]>> That's right.

[00:39:46]>> This a part of me includes who I didn't want to be.

[00:39:50]>> Yeah. And you needed that as a building block to get to.

[00:39:53]>> It was a building block for me. Not just in the work that I do as a trauma informed provider, but in the work that I do for me in my life and my children and grandchildren. Absolutely. And >> we are enjoying life together. It's wonderful. But it does it doesn't erase the fact that some damage was done >> in the early years. And you're the second group.

[00:40:15]>> I am.

[00:40:16]>> The first group I had my children was a teenager. in my early 20s.

[00:40:21]>> Yeah.

[00:40:21]>> I recognize now that I was still trying to meet my needs >> and not even recognizing what trauma and pain and abuse had did to me and how I was impacting them as a result of how I was launched into the world. And I didn't want to go into the field of helping just to help people without helping myself first. When I got my doctor degree and I knew I was going to be working with families and get my license, I worked harder on myself because I also didn't want to bleed on my clients. There's a an author uh he he's deceased now by the name of Victor Frankle.

[00:40:54]>> He was in the concentration camps. He wrote a book called Man's Search for Meaning.

[00:40:59]>> And in that book, he talked about the last of the human freedoms. Everything can be taken from a man or a woman, but the last of the human freedoms and that is to determine your own attitude in any given set of circumstances. M >> you decide how you would feel and respond about a thing. I learned that in the reinventing of myself. I'm big on taking care of my mental health and the emotional part of me. So when my children need me, I do it.

[00:41:31]I do it for me and them first.

[00:41:33]>> Yeah.

[00:41:34]>> I don't do it for my job first.

[00:41:36]>> Yeah.

[00:41:36]>> My job is blessed because who I am when I'm not working with them. your job gets the overflow of the work.

[00:41:43]>> They get they get the overflow. I I've got a booming practice and I meet so many special people that care about me, but I want them to know I do this work at home.

[00:41:54]>> Yeah.

[00:41:55]>> And I want my children all to know that.

[00:41:58]That means so I I don't want to be teared up.

[00:42:01]>> It's okay.

[00:42:03]>> That means so much to me because it is the essence of who I am.

[00:42:07]>> Yes.

[00:42:07]>> In my life, people talk about leaving a legacy. I want to live my legacy.

[00:42:11]>> You don't just talk the talk. You you walk. I I walk it. I live my legacy. So when when I when I am done here like Chadwick Boseman, I would want to look at God and say I used everything you gave me.

[00:42:23]>> That's right.

[00:42:24]>> All my gifts, all my talents, all my songs and my teaching, my laughter, my fun, and I and I learned how to become a very effective >> Yeah. If something happens and a kid got to talk to me, "Well, mommy, I was thinking about such and such and you know, you said such and such." And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, we we're here."

[00:42:43]I never get angry. I say, "Talk to me about it."

[00:42:47]>> Yeah.

[00:42:48]>> And I want to hear you.

[00:42:49]>> And I'm so grateful that you're there because that has rubbed off on me with Amira, which is my 15-year-old daughter if you do not know. I strive to be that mother for her because though, you know, I' I've tried my best. Now I'm about to cry. Though I've tried my best with everything that I've done with her >> and she's still in my home. She's a teenager, but >> there's so many things that um there's so many things that I know she's going to have an issue with later on when she's a woman where she will come back and say, "Well, mommy, this affected me.

[00:43:27]This is I know that the reason that I'm like this is because you did this or you allowed this or you allowed that. And I already know it now. You know, I already know it now. I can see it. I can probably name them off. And I hate that because I did it with the best intentions, but I'm limited by my level of growth at the time.

[00:43:46]>> Yes.

[00:43:47]>> And I needed that version of me to get to this version of me. But I want to be that mother that she can come to and that will say, "Baby, while that is who I was then, I hear you. It is accurate. I I understand where you are.

[00:44:06]>> What what can I do and how can I help you to undo >> some of that programming that I inflicted on to you?" And you have been that for me. And so, I just want to say thank you. I'm about to stop, child. I'm taking it's everything in me to stop cry right now. But I just wanted to say thank you um for being that. I'm just grateful that you don't just talk the talk that you walk the walk and now I am walking the walk and I take your example and I can I can do that for my baby. So >> thank you.

[00:44:39]>> You're welcome. Okay. So we are at the end of our interview. Um at the end of all of our interviews I asked the same question. It's kind of like a finish the sentence type of question. So >> finish the sentence, mommy. As I elevate into the next chapter in the best version of myself, I I recall the words and the quote of Maryanne Williamson.

[00:45:03]>> Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate.

[00:45:07]>> Our greatest fear is that we are powerful >> beyond measure.

[00:45:11]>> It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. And also our our playing small does not serve the world.

[00:45:20]Also as I elevate into better versions of myself, I recall two scriptures. One, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me >> and I am more than a conqueror.

[00:45:31]>> Amen.

[00:45:32]>> Through Christ Jesus. I also continue in courage and faith in knowing that I have the choice to decide my own attitude in any given set of circumstances. And last but not least, >> I will always be in places where I will not allow what is frozen in my past to paralyze me in my present. So without paralysis, I continue to move.

[00:46:01]>> Yeah.

[00:46:01]>> I continue to grow.

[00:46:02]>> That's right.

[00:46:03]>> I continue to evolve. I continue to worship. I continue to sing and have joy and travel to Atlanta as much as I am able to do >> to know that I do sit in greatness, >> but there's a great responsibility >> with greatness.

[00:46:21]>> Yes, there is.

[00:46:22]>> And I have an accountability to others and not just myself.

[00:46:25]>> That's right. It's important to elevate to the best version of myself by seeing deeply me first and then having the emotional compass and the healthiness of that emotional compass to also to see and to hear others.

[00:46:42]>> That's beautiful. Thank you.

[00:46:43]>> All right, y'all. That wraps up today's episode. I hope that you guys really enjoyed it. If you have not yet, please make sure that you follow the podcast on Instagram, Tik Tok, and YouTube. Leave a comment on YouTube and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast.

[00:46:56]Last but not least, if you feel like this show could help anyone that you know, please share it with them so that we all can elevate together.

[00:47:03]Congratulations, sister. You're officially one step closer to becoming your very best version. I'll see you on the next one. Bye.