Freemasonry is a fraternal organization founded around 1645-1813 in England, not a church or cult, with its main aim being charity and societal upliftment. Membership requires self-knowledge, belief in a Great Architect of the Universe, and character assessment, with no active recruitment. The society welcomes members of all faiths including Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists, and has contributed to infrastructure like schools and buildings. Misconceptions about devil worship and human sacrifice stem from misinformation, while the organization emphasizes enlightenment, personal growth, and moral responsibility over wealth accumulation.
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Why Would FreeMasons Choose You? Philip WaweruAdded:
He has said some very interesting things about Freemasonry like the level he was playing at everything they had picked and they ran for their lives.
>> Let me ask you one thing.
>> Mhm.
>> When you hear about skeleton, what comes in your mind as a normal person? I've tried to make sense of that situation practice fasting. So in his 80 days of fasting you're interfering with my fasting. So that is me I try to make sense of things differently.
>> You know first of all let's give apostles credits and u what is who is what is who. Let me put it that way.
Mhm.
>> But if I was to think >> of that uh scenario >> of the skeleton coming >> Yes. When a normal person or when um let's say a normal let's use just a normal person when they think about skeleton they think of it as maybe as a devil thing devilish thing demonic thing that's a demonic thing in fact >> yes >> right >> I want you to take you back >> right in 199 I think 1994 1995 >> yes >> who was the president at that particular time >> Daniel to teach >> okay Daniel to right >> yes >> Daniel himself what did he do >> to a great extent some people would argue that uh to get to certain levels you must have the blessings of the freemason cause of course for obvious reasons we would assume don't mention anyone who has been That's not secret you're giving me.
Okay.
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Another episode we've been planning for a while is a young Kenyan who made a bold move in my opinion. Yeah, he has um very interesting social media presence uh discussing very interesting topic.
Some people would say a taboo topic Philip but Philip Mason because he discusses let me let me say in my opinion he demystifies the world of freemasonry. So when I saw that I was like interesting uh interesting to follow up I reached out we've been planning this and finally we here Philip >> Kariban >> it's bold move because it takes courage to come and deal with people in what you will call a taboo subject. Now I'm very interested in your perspectives life but just to get this out of the way you deal with perceptions the society Freemasonry but from me to you what's of all the things people talking about freemasonry >> because let me say this 90% of As Kenyans or as Africans, we thrive under one thing, misinformation.
>> Mhm.
>> Dr. Propaganda day in day out. Day in day out.
>> Even when you come tell people today we are building here toilet tomorrow because of why >> he's just trying to do something out not out of his mind but out of a way that he or she doesn't want to know. Let's call it ignorance because 90% of the things we have today >> Yeah.
>> are built on ignorance. Whether in Kenya, whether in Africa, ignorance is what we thrive in. First of all, in Kenya, we thrive with ignorance.
>> Yeah.
>> For the first time, how do you get, let me use the word recruited into the world, Freemasonry.
>> First of all, let me use this phrase.
You're not here to do anything matters recruitment.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. We're not here to do anything matters recruitment because people think now this is an is is a good platform. All they do is bombard your phone with big phone calls. Hey, >> I want to get into this stuff or I want to get into your cult first. This is not a cult.
>> Mhm.
>> You get this is not a cult.
>> Mhm.
>> So for one to become a mason, it takes a little bit of time. First you must be able to understand yourself.
>> Who are you first before you come in?
>> Yes. because you need uh people to vouch for you at the lodge for you to become a member. It's not a one day process. It's not a one day event. Many people think well you come you become a member the first day.
>> So the best thing is for one first to know themselves.
>> What I would say many people don't know what they are or who they are. Many people thrive without knowing who they are. The only percentage of people who know who they are are a few. I will not say the people who have made it in life.
Even the people who have not made it in life at least they know themselves.
>> But for you to become a member you must first realize who you are in order to become a member.
>> Yeah.
>> So what I believe this goes to general perspective of life. What is knowing yourself?
>> Knowing yourself is knowing um what to do with with life first.
How to counter life? Because while you're coming to Freemasonry, one person will think this is an avenue of wealth.
We are coming to dine with wealth first before we do anything >> and that's where many people go wrong.
>> Yeah. No matter if we separate it from the context of freemasonry just general, you come across as a very smart person.
So just they don't even know whether you are a member of the Freemasonry from the Freemason society. H your definition here knowing yourself like if you are to talk to someone one by this is how you get to know yourself what does that mean >> that means you should be able to understand the avenues of life are you getting me that you must be able to understand the avenues of life avenues of life that's a thing >> avenues of life because what you're coming to get into what you're coming to get into first is another world which requires somebody who's straight with life.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Avenues of life.
>> What you do on a normal bas on a normal day?
>> Avenues of life. What you do on a normal day?
>> Yeah. What's your routine? What do you do?
>> I wake up in the morning. I wash my face.
Junior school like how to plan your day technically. So that's what you mean by avenue. when you when you what have you said >> in the early in the formative years of school.
>> Yes.
>> And after that after you become um and after you become of age what do you do?
What do you start doing as you doctor >> because you'll not be waking up and washing your face.
>> H leave alone waking up and washing your face. That's a ritual which every person does every day.
>> Mhm.
>> You get leave alone that.
>> Yes. What else do you what uh else do you do apart from that? That's let's leave that for >> profession >> not professionally >> you as a normal person you know professionally it means >> uh let's put uh somebody who is a teacher right he wakes up in the morning goes to >> to school to work >> to work after that >> you teach and then you go back home I'm assuming in summary >> in summary right >> but there's something more to that who's that teacher in deep when students see that person they when the students see the teacher They see for example a chemistry teacher right?
>> Mhm.
>> But me myself when I see that man what am I saying >> is he somebody who we can walk well with with life or or what will be our discussion or what will I see? I have two option. I can see something which can pull me close to him or can distance me and him.
>> So we are discussing person and personality.
>> Yeah.
>> Mhm.
So, so avenues of life because I've checked out on the symbolism of the Freemason society and the circle is very important in fact in that's why the compass and um the compass to draw the circle uh to indicate the circle of life birth and death like the whole circle that's a strong word I like strong So avenues of life right and it's very important that you said this a disclaimer it's not recruitment like church figurative. So uh in this context here avenues of life I would like to understand like avenues of life >> you know marriage >> yeah things like those marriage what you do on your normal day life what Freemasonry does is require somebody who's straightforward let me put it let me now narrow it down >> you must be a man of straight will >> yes >> you get me so the way we were using a teacher as an example He's a teacher, right?
>> After being a teacher, what else?
>> What he does on his normal life.
>> What he does on his normal life.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Mhm. You told me something very interesting offset at there are people who have their phones believing that they are good people. So anytime a call may come through, yeah, the Freemasons now want you. Now that narrative >> yes >> is brought by this >> people were told that Freemasonry look for you >> as an individual.
>> Yes.
>> So whatever you have in you that's what makes you u become a member of Freemasonry.
>> So you uh let's use for example you're a talented footballer. You know you're a talented footballer. Now you sit down relax and wait for Freemason to call you.
>> Of which that does not happen. Okay, >> that's just an information that people got wrong.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um for someone again who has never interacted with your content and I encourage them to go check out your social media pages, um what is your what is your way in? Cuz they don't look for you. What is your way in? How do you get into the society?
Sema straightforward person. So, that's a description. Okay. So way you you have an interesting journey even before I hear it because you get to talk about it. You you look like someone who creates their own rules in terms of oh by the secret societ secret society. Oh by there I can demystify ABCD. Uh I've been around these circles long enough to know that I have not seen anyone uh talk about Freemasonry uh publicly and uh the person who I saw speak about Freemasonry, it was a much hyped interview on NTV, a former someone and people were like But he didn't say anything and from the backlash you would assume this would be hush hash. No one would ever ever talk about this in public. Then you come and you look like someone who writes your own rules although you conform to principles of what the society stands for.
So how do you get wherea system?
>> Let me say this. Let's first let me first correct this statement. Dr. Ambrose stated what was supposed to be stated.
>> He stated what was supposed to be stated.
>> Yeah. It's just that people wanted to hear other things what they believe. I told you Kenyans want to hear what they believe.
>> Yes.
>> For example, a Kenyan um you should tell them.
>> Mhm.
>> So that's what they wanted to hear.
>> But doctor stated it right and clear what needs to be said.
>> Okay.
>> You cannot just come and compromise everything to feed an audience. You must be able to tell them what needs to be told >> because uh it's not him who wants to say these things. He has already been told you uh you must say these things according to this law.
>> You cannot just come and uh state everything. Just like in this show, I can I cannot just start using some vulgar words.
>> There's a limit to that. There's a law to that.
>> Mhm.
>> Even without you telling me, >> I get what you mean.
>> Yeah. You can I cannot just come here and start using some funny funny characters or some funny funny words here >> because that's a law that was stated.
>> Okay.
>> Like that.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um I it's interesting that the society is not I understand where the disclaimer it's not a church comes from because I understand that uh it's not religion specific. They are Christians Christian members of the Freemason society. They are Muslim members and different people from different faiths. Okay. So basmason in what you are allowed to share.
Freemason is a society like any other society first.
>> Mhm.
>> Um it uh it's one of the most oldest societies we have in the world. When it started there were many other societies in in England but this was way more established which uh started around 1645 to around 1813. That was when it was well established to date. Now when we come to uh when we move forward, people will say it's a uh it's a church but it's not a church. First when you hear anyone mention this is a church no that person first doesn't know what he's stating because this is a fraternal organization. Our main aim is charity.
That's our main aim. charity. Whenever you see Freemasons somewhere, if you see them in Malindi, if you see them in Turkana, if you see them in Nairobi itself, leave alone those areas, just know their main aim is charity.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Main aim is charity.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh >> the shortest we can equate to the Rotarian society.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Mhm.
>> So charity in a mana you have identified uh poverty as um something you fight. I'm a charity in what sense?
>> Charity in uplifting the society. It's all about the society. If you say you're fighting poverty, it means we should be in slums doing everything.
>> So break break it down for us your your form of uplifting the society.
>> Our form of uplifting the society. Let's go back to Nasha. Let me give you a story an example with Nasha. There are schools that are built there.
>> What has that done to the society?
>> And do you label them? Do you see?
>> No, no, no.
Now you want to come and see uh it was constructed by Freemasonry Nairobi. You cannot find it like that.
>> You don't do that.
>> We don't do that.
>> Okay. So, what is your view of uh Basi now that uplifting the society? What is your view of uh poverty or wealth? Your personal view?
>> My personal view about poverty or wealth?
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Why are some people poor?
And why are some why do some people have access to wealth?
>> The people who have access to wealth is the people who have decided to let fear leave them.
Are you getting me? We have two types of people. There are people who inherited what they had with their fathers, right?
And there are people who have worked for what they have.
>> Mhm.
>> When we come to poverty, many people fear to do something.
when they're doing something, the first thing that clicks on their mind, what if I fail?
>> Mhm.
>> So when you speak to that person, you ask them, um, they'll come and just tell you, I was trying to do a business and, uh, this is my proposal. I did this, I did this, I researched about this, my company was to be opened on a certain date. Then you ask him, why did you why didn't you uh, was the company open? No.
Why? You know, I started thinking, what if I open and the company fails to go?
>> Mhm.
>> Just like you.
>> Mhm. right now. What made you to be here?
>> Uh it's a product of a decision and continuous uh uh work in progress. What if you thought it one day while you seated somewhere >> and then someone comes and then you speak to just your friend and tell them um something like that.
What will you tell them?
>> That's an interesting path.
Makes a lot of sense. Uh so does that qualify. Is this to say that poverty is a choice to a great extent?
>> Poverty sometimes is a choice.
Poverty is a choice.
>> Poverty is a choice and wealth is also a choice. That's why you see some people will be wealthy and then at some time they crumble down.
It's a choice they made to be there.
>> Mhm.
>> Anyone who you see right now never started up.
They started down.
>> Mhm.
>> The only people we can say they started up is those people who say their father had things and they left to them.
>> That was inheritance. Something of that sort. That's somebody who started up.
You cannot say he started down.
>> But somebody was building from scratch.
That's another thing.
>> It's a that's a powerful thing because I can quote someone I respect so much Dr. Thomas Alma. All humanity starts from poverty. So now uh poverty sometimes it's engineered by the people who have by by policy decisions. U it's not a choice to the level how resources can be manipulated and it's also not a choice to the level helplessness you're programming for someone who lives in fear. Fear can be programmed into someone to the level that you're so helpless that you don't even recognize. Is that true?
>> Yeah. Fear can be programmed into your life.
>> So in that case, is that a choice?
>> No.
>> For that person choice. But it can be a choice by the way. You choose what you hear?
>> No. But uh when when when when choice becomes let's say education system uh if it's been programmed in an education system to a great extent from your formative years you may not choose which school you go to. So if you go to a place where you programmed outside choice >> let me say this while we are tackling this uh poverty and wealth.
I'll ask you one simple question. When did Kipog run?
>> Kip the marathon.
>> The one that he broke the record. That one >> Inos the And not sure about the year, but I remember the the event >> after that. What did he say?
>> No human is limited. That is Lupita.
Lupita said no human is limited. I think I'm mixing up the two.
keeping himself.
>> What did he say?
>> I wanted to say the same. I wanted you to tell me so that we can know that him he himself stated that thing. That's a question I want you to answer me. What did he say? That's a homework. Just write it down. You'll go and look it and then you'll answer me.
>> But I think the example of Kipog, we have runners in Kenya. But I would disqualify that on the level. Yeah, there's a difference between outliers and it there's there's very solid reasons why not every runner in Kenya can beat Kip Chipog's record because the factors that make him break that record cannot be replicated to everyone.
But did uh was that an a wonder event for him to be there?
>> No, it wasn't.
>> It was a it was a journey.
>> 100%. Yeah. So in poverty you have a journey that you yourself you decide.
>> Mhm.
>> You know what what what is this that I'm looking at?
>> Mhm.
>> You know many people right now should look at life at how they'll change their own family's life.
>> Mhm.
>> How is that? Your father was Let me use this. Your greatgrandfather was poor. He left it to your grandfather.
>> Mhm.
>> Your grandfather passed it to your >> father. M >> now it's up to you how are you looking at you have two options either you remain like your father and the same lineage and pass it to your children or you do something.
>> Mhm.
>> If you don't do something >> Yes.
>> Is that a choice that you've made?
Very solid solid argument. I have to give it to you. It's a solid argument.
But to the level Yeah. Uh to the level Yeah. When you say process, it's a journey, right? There's so many factors that influence uh the success of an individual, right?
Uh there's you can be so good, right?
But that does not guarantee not all talent. I think somewhere else there's a lot of talent out there.
In fact, the example was uh let's give give the example Kipog. Do you know uh that if you go to a place like Eldor, there's probably someone who can run faster than him and break that record, but he has not gotten uh he he has no way to access the system that made Kip Chokei possible. And that's a story for very many people and it's nothing to do with choice. What I can say he does u the thing that is limiting that person is fear. It's not that he doesn't have a choice it's fear.
How many people have you seen boldly they claim they can do something >> and they do it. Right now I don't know if it was in this country or it was in another country. There was somebody who went I don't know to which country won.
I don't know what but nobody recognized him.
>> He paid skating I believe. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Skating I believe.
>> Why did he do that? He left fear. He he kept fear aside and he said I will face this thing no matter what. That's why he depended on paying his ticket doing everything for himself.
>> Now that person you're saying you're defending him. So he should not even that person had that opportunity to just sit down and wait.
>> I'm not defending I'm asking. So do you do you sub you are a liberated mind?
>> So if you put fear aside how many years would we give you to be president of this country because you believe you can. One thing I I'm not I'm not aiming to be president.
>> No, but if you were to aim, you know, if you put fear aside, >> ask me another thing, but not being a president.
>> That's an example. That's an example.
Yeah. There are opportunities that can only be attained by a certain percentage of fear. It's nothing to do with um it's by a small percentage of people. Uh it's nothing to do with fear. It's nothing to do with uh it's nothing to do with you as a person. It is the nature of how things are. Amma >> sometimes it depends.
>> So, so we cannot blanketly in my opinion argue that uh fear stops everything from as in everyone from achieving what they want like poverty as a choice.
You're right.
who have been who have been programmed to believe that right >> they believe that all right but that is not true >> because we have don't have the systems to accommodate the people who believe in this dream right this person may not get an opportunity not because they're not able but because they do not have the right information that is not doing of themselves to some extent because on one hand I agree with your point that exposed to information the kind of information you choose what you listen to but how many people have access to this point to this point because of the nature of society that we have the nature of society that we live in to a great extent. Do you believe in free will?
>> Yeah.
>> You believe uh you have the capacity to do anything that you want.
>> Yeah.
>> But some people agree argue very strongly that there's nothing like free will. Everything happens the way it was meant to be.
>> No, you are the one who creat Now you want to put things that way. You yourself, you're the one who's putting those things that way.
>> No, me I have my set of belief.
>> Not you. I'm saying that person.
>> Not you. that person he's the one who's putting that issue that way.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
Ulifting the society in your experience charity and the society that you're a member of what do you think uplifting the society means?
Okay, a good example you're building a school, right? But in your assessment now there's something we agree on. Kenya thrives in misinformation.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh what is your perspective of uplifting the society?
>> My perspective of uplifting the society is to make um everything better. Let's make Kenya a better place for everyone >> or or let's make our um a world better for everyone because this charity is not only for Kenya, not only for Africa. It happens even in the UK >> because how does this charity work? You know, there was a covenant that was made in England >> that every um 30% of the revenue that was collected was to go to charity through Freemasonry to help uplift the society.
>> Mhm.
>> That was in around 1959 there.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Now, think of it to date.
>> Mhm.
>> Does it increase or decrease?
If at that particular moment it was 30%.
What do you think of now?
the 30% or the impact to society.
>> The 30% first leave alone the impact to the society. Did the 30% go up or did it decrease?
>> Must have decreased.
>> Why?
>> My would you like my personal opinion?
>> My personal opinion is uh if let's say 30% of revenue should go to charity uh how is it going to charity? Because uh there's if you ask me for let's say a million Bob I can either give you the million Bob or show you how to make your a million Bob.
So I'll be curious to know the charity was an better houses for the people in the low income areas but then what after that they have not been empowered. Um I am always pro information give people the right information change. If the number decreased, it's probably the same case now. A place like has received charity for years and years, but the situation has not changed.
>> Now, this is what I wanted to say.
>> Mhm.
>> The situation increased.
>> The 30% went up.
>> Mhm.
>> Because that was around 1959, >> you get?
>> Yes.
>> That uh where's the origin of Freemasonry?
>> England. But a lot of persecution in France, I believe.
>> Yes. But the original base of Freemasonries in England >> that was the support base for each and every settlement we have here or we have in Africa.
>> The support base for each and every settlement.
>> Yeah. Of Freemasonry. I'm talking part of Freemasonry. Not leave the world alone.
>> Mhm.
>> What Freemasonry has done itself. We looking what Freemasonry has done.
>> You get how it built the things that it had built. Let's come here to Kenya for example. When you look at the Masonic Hall, when you look at the for example the All Saints Cathedral, when you look at the Mark Millan Library, when you look at our Nairobi city hall here and so forth and so forth.
>> Mhm.
>> Where do you think that happened?
>> Ah, that that's new information.
>> Who are the orchestrators of that?
>> That that's new information. or the information I have was the architect who was contracted to build uh the bu the establishments you've mentioned was a member of the freemason society so he built on inspiration of from masonic symbols but this is also different information that it was a contribution from the freemason society >> till today there are many and many more that we cannot be able to mention >> because some are ongoing.
>> These are some of the charities that are ongoing.
>> You've said something that uh you should give them like a job, give them something, show them how to source their million Bob to do this to do to do this.
>> What if them what if we brought free medical care to them?
>> That's solid because they will be healthy enough to go work.
>> What if we brought the schools to them?
>> They will have a platform to learn. What if we brought the markets to them?
>> A place to trade.
>> Yes.
>> And so forth and so forth.
>> That's a good point. What if you brought schools to them? So to Kanza, you said Freemason society is a different world, right? And the difference between a member of the society and the ordinary person is the kind of information they have they are exposed to.
So if you build a school in the system that we criticize, you're being programmed to limit your potential.
Does it change? Like if you build a school as a society, you want to uplift the society. Do you uplift them with do you uplift them with the with the system that dumbs them down or you uplift them with principles of information that enlightens them?
>> You know, right? Um, one thing you should be able to know on how things are right now.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh, if you're saying school, what did you say? Schools do what?
>> Uh, dumb people down.
>> So, it means 90% of the children or 90% of Kenyans should not be going to school.
I have very interesting opinions about that because I've studied the education system from so in short >> if somebody's going to uh let's say let's put grade one so you grade one the parent should collect the funds hardware by the time he's finishing school he's able to do or to run life.
>> Mhm.
>> Is that what you're saying? H what I'm saying is we may study history. Yeah.
Our education system and why it was established the way it was established and the consequences that we are facing now where we have hundreds of thousands of graduates without placenda.
We train workers and not producers. We trained people. We trained people on absorbing knowledge not producing knowledge. And that's the gap with our education system. That is my opinion. So we continue to inject more and more people into a system that already is at probably peak failure rate.
>> Something we have to blame >> on that particular >> Uhhuh.
>> of which I will not blame it now.
>> You will postpone the blame.
>> I will postpone the blame.
>> Okay.
>> Because I know why.
>> Mhm.
>> For these uh for these people who are out of school blah blah blah there's some there are people who are failing them.
>> Mhm.
>> There's a system which is failing them.
Mhm.
>> We are not going to blame it right now.
I have a reason why I will not blame it right now.
>> Yeah.
>> But I don't see the need to postpone because personally when I went in history nikuka what I was taught in school uh the dates when the Lancaster House conference happened that's an example but when I go read for myself I find the details of what people were discussing in these conferences. That's where the content is. But that's not in school. The system deliberately failed people. Me I don't see anything else outside that.
>> I know what we want to blame. Let's leave that for another day.
>> So uplifting society. I would like to understand.
Okay. I'm sorry because I know you're a smart person and I think people should benefit from what you know if they get 20% that is topnotch. So uplifting society to break down what you think would uplift society.
>> What I think would uplift society are many things >> depends with your first it depends with the age because if you're uplifting the society for um let's say a 5year-old what are we doing to them if we uplifting the society for um 20 year old if you're uplifting the society for a 30 >> and so forth and so forth >> there are different stages of uplifting the society.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
I think it would be counterproductive yet I'm a big fan of knowledge. So in I would like to know for example you talk about the good things that the society does. You don't want to claim credit like how politicians do. You don't do that, right? But and also you've also been bombarded by negative press and let's call it misinformation as you would say because you you you your representation the image is different from what people believe, right? Does it bother you?
>> It does not bother us.
This was something that was expected when Freemasonry came into the media because of the 21st century.
>> This was something that was expected.
>> Okay.
>> Right now we were speaking with you. You told me um there's something that you told me um about the your story with your friend. I will not mention it.
>> Mhm.
>> You have the good side and the bad side.
You told me you're waiting for your bad side.
>> Is it true?
>> You remember your turn. Your turn.
>> Your turn on the bad side.
>> Yes.
>> You get You're ready for it. Whether it comes with whether it does not come, you're ready for it. Freemasonry was ready for this.
>> That's why you see you cannot see anything paraded about Freemasonry just like that for the sake of parading it.
>> Okay, >> you see many people think Freemasonry will come the way we are saying take credit of this, take credit of that, take credit of this. First one thing the society has not accepted Masons in this land. Mhm.
>> It's something that is done like it's a sacred thing of which is not because every day people meet at the mason the masonic hall here just down here around the railroad right >> except on Sundays but people have not yet accepted it if we go back um during the old days look uh let's take for example Catholics there are many things people will question about Catholics why do fathers not marry why do not all those things but why Catholic has been placed under a church right and people have known Catholics for days they have been going on going on going on going on and you see the moment Catholics are going day by day there are things we did not know about them we are knowing them right now >> openly >> yes >> same as freemasonry but the things that people are not able to know are just the traditions of freemasonry >> mhm >> that's the only thing that has been kept a secret for many years.
>> Okay?
>> And it will still be kept a secret.
That's what many people want to hear.
That's what many people want to know about.
>> But we are not given the uh right information with anyone because right now when you enter in the internet, you'll see funny funny things. First of all, let's demystify somebody calling uh there's something that you stated earlier, Freemason is a church. That's one thing. You'll enter online hear somebody saying we in our church.
That's somebody who does not have full information on what filmmasonry is all about.
>> This is not a church first of all. This is a fraternal organization. This is a brotherhood.
>> You get whether Christian, whether Muslim, whether Hindu, whe >> you are uh you are uh let's say you're a Buddhist and so on. We have many religions >> in you're welcome to become a Mason.
There's nothing that limits you to become a Mason. Mhm.
>> That's why the first rule for you to become a member is you must believe in the great architect of the universe.
>> Mhm.
>> Failure to that you cannot be allowed to be a member.
>> Some people just come because of the enjoyment.
>> Some come because of the cabra that which is there.
>> Mhm.
>> You get >> some people just want to enjoy what they see.
>> That's why when we were offset I told you something. I don't know if you got it. I told you the constitution was amended that once you're coming any uh your form you'll be filled who you are and you challenged me and asked me one thing what if I'm a doctor and I don't have work at that particular moment I told you go look for work.
>> Mhm.
>> I asked you one question. You told me what if I'm an engineer and I don't have the experience and I asked you how many engineers do we have who are selling ice creams.
>> Mhm. So in your form, what will we write? An engineer.
>> Mhm.
>> I'm asking you, what will we write? An >> what you do, LMA, the ice cream that you said, >> be you be the ice cream seller. Yes.
You're an engineer. You can be an engineer as an ice cream seller.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> You mentioned that people go to the masonic hall every day except Sunday.
>> Yeah.
>> Why except Sunday?
>> Except we we respect other people going to church. the people who are going to church because from Monday to Saturday we have many lodges that come there.
>> Mhm.
>> You get me? Lodges.
>> Many lodges >> that come to the temple. The Masonic Hall.
>> Are you to Are you allowed to tell us what a lodge is?
>> Yeah. A lodge is a gathering of people.
>> You get every lodge has its name. For example, let me give you mine. Lodge of Nairobi. M number 720 7287.
>> Mhm.
>> You see those are people who attend only on Thursdays.
>> Mhm.
>> There are people who come on Friday.
There are people who come on Monday. For example, Lo Harmony 384, Lo orient Loanaro. You get they have their own specific days that they come. You see, let's go back. Let's take it to the let's use the example of the church. For example, when do SDS go to church?
>> On Saturday.
>> And when do these other people go to church?
>> Sunday.
So someone would ask where do the Muslims go >> Friday and someone would ask why you don't respect SDA so that you leave them the Saturday Pab if Sunday is to respect other people going to church >> you know uh on Saturday it's not a matter of um people being in the lodge for uh how is it called for the lodge meetings.
>> Mhm.
>> These are just people who come to summarize their things.
>> Yes.
>> You get the temple is active uh from Monday to Saturday. M >> people have the things that they're doing there. There's something that we discussed of that you said somebody did this went realize something.
>> You remember the story?
>> That's uh that's how it is.
>> So you you it's not a church but you can call it a temple.
>> Yeah.
>> My body is the temple of the Lord.
>> Is the temple of the Lord. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay.
>> Because if you look at this thing uh let's look it like this.
>> Mhm.
>> Why is it a temple? Who was the first orchestrator of this temple? Who was it >> as uh with your own >> Solomon's temple like in the Bible? King Solomon. Yes.
>> Now, King Solomon was the orchestrator of this temple. He was the one who built this temple because if you go to the Masonic Hall in Nairobi, it has a citation of King Solomon >> and I shall build your house >> and I shall establish my throne forever.
>> Those were words from King Solomon to God. Mhm.
>> Now, when you hear a mad man come here and say Freemasonry is a devil worship, link the devil to that statement right now.
>> Mhm. Mhm.
>> I'm following.
>> I want you to link to link the devil to that statement.
>> There's no from that statement. I'm with you. There is no devil there.
>> So, where is the devil worship coming from?
Erh, I'll speak I'll speak for the uninformed as we can call them. People who don't know what you know.
Uh but before that you called it a brotherhood. Does that mean women are excluded from the brotherhood?
>> Women.
>> Let's go back to women if you want to put it that way.
>> Yes, please.
>> It was an only men's affair in the olden days.
>> And we said something the way we were going. We said freemasonry or we said it has evolved with time because in the past it was not in the media. You could not hear anyone come and speak about Freemasonry. So it has evolved with time. The first Masonic woman was a was a woman named Elizabeth Aldworth. That was the first Masonic woman to ever become a mason.
>> What was how uh did Elizabeth get himself or get herself as a mason? M first of all, Elizabeth was at her home. She was around late 17.
>> Mhm. While she was at her home, um she was at the library doing her studies, she fell asleep. And as she fell asleep, she heard people doing something at the back. She had the opportunity to peep and see what was going on. While she peeped, she did something there. People noticed there was somebody who was watching what was happening. Elizabeth was caught looking what her father was going through and what was her father going through? The father was going through the incision process that was happening at their home. Now they had two options. Let Elizabeth go or initiate Elizabeth as a mason.
Why?
>> Mhm. But during those options they remained with one option. Initiate Elizabeth as a member. Why? to be able to govern or to be able to bind these secrets or these things that she saw as um um that she saw what her father was being done to >> so that once she goes out she'll not be able to reveal the secret. That takes me somewhere where you told me you get >> once you come and you want to become a member, you must know one thing. Once you take the oath, there are things you cannot be able to do.
You cannot go um you cannot be able to reveal some of the things. Let me give you example with the police. What do they do? They take an oath to do what?
>> Mhm. Serve and protect.
>> Do they go and do they override that?
Yes, they do. But uh I get the point you mean uh and I think that's an important point that you bring like this oath is so strong that if you take it, you can't break it. For the service people there, there are some who break. Leave alone those ones. Let's use let's give examples with the right people.
>> We're talking about people who are >> straightforward. They don't. Yes. Yes.
>> Let's use them like that.
>> Mhm.
>> Once they took they take the oath. So I'm asking you this question. Elizabeth took that oath immediately she left.
Will she be able to speak or will she be able to say what she saw?
>> No, she wouldn't.
>> So she became the first Masonic >> woman.
>> And after that she was able to grow and grow and grow.
When we come to now, let's come right now. Right.
>> Mhm.
>> When we move uh from centuries to centuries >> Mhm. back. Uh, many women were not allowed to be preachers, right?
>> Mhm.
>> But with time, what happened?
>> They were allowed >> due to um modernity, I believe, and uh society loosening up some of the rules.
>> Yeah. With the way things uh leave even alone preachers, even the way the society was, there are things that uh women were limited to do, >> but right now we can see them doing them perfectly >> even more than men. So that answers uh the question that do women become mason.
>> Okay. Okay. So you say something very scary there for someone just to clarify it's possible to become a freemason by accident like just for I'm just painting a scenario like you are being initiated somewhere because like that is the place you're supposed as in circumstances have made it that you are initiated there. If I see There's option maybe that option is not there.
I'mma is it possible to become a freemason by accident?
>> No. Because I'll take you back a little bit. Uh when we were right there, we talked about the constitution that was amended in 1922 >> process. Yes. Yes.
>> Remember?
>> Yes. What it did it made sure that each and every meeting should happen at the masonic hall.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Of each and every lodge.
>> Mhm.
>> Once the watchful master is not there, the word master can take over or if the meeting is to be postponed is to be postponed. So you cannot find somebody being initiated >> or in any other place.
>> Okay. Understood. So um who is the master architect of the universe?
>> I believe it's God.
For me >> God is a master architect of the universe.
>> And um is there a difference between you believing in the master architect of the universe and going to church where people are praising God uh who you say is the master architect of the universe?
>> It depends with you.
>> Depends with an individual. It depends on individual depends on the church that you go.
>> Okay. Uh we had a >> every time we have our own different thinking.
>> Yes.
>> About everything.
>> Yes.
>> While you go to church, you have your your own obligation on what took you to church.
>> Mhm.
>> If you look at many churches right now >> Mhm.
>> they doing what is not supposed to be done. Let me put it that way.
>> Why am I saying like that?
>> There are people who preach differently.
You'll find even preachers have their own battles.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. True.
>> This one preaches heaven. This one preaches earth. The other one will be told he preaches wealth. The other one will be told preaches I don't know what.
>> Yes.
>> They usually argue about everything.
>> Mhm.
>> Why can't they be one?
>> Mhm. I'm following.
>> Why can't they be one?
>> Okay. Solid point. If I am a preacher and I'm I'm preaching the gospel the right way, you're also a preacher.
You're preaching wealth and I have the obligation to attack you because you're preaching well. Are we preaching the same God?
>> Good point.
>> Are we preaching the same God?
>> No.
>> What are we preaching?
>> Everyone is preaching their own interest.
>> Thank you.
Okay. So, um what is enlighten? Enlightenment >> is the I believe is the understanding of the world and my own perspective because for you to be enlightened you must see other things the way I don't see them.
>> Mhm.
>> What makes a difference between you and a kid is because you see life different from the way the kid sees life.
>> For example, a kid can see life as just playing.
>> You you see life as obligation. You have burdens to to bear. You have problems you need to solve. You have things you need to to do.
>> But what does the kid see >> in his own life, they just leave?
Thank you.
>> But but you know there's something called the burden of knowledge. And I think this came up with with um in conversation with a friend of mine. U the the statement is very simple.
Foolish people are very happy.
Like there's there's some sort of sweetness in being foolish because sometimes you make mistakes, things work out and you ace it through life. You wing it and then you go and you don't have to think through things, think through decisions. Knowledge comes with a burden of weighing options which is very heavy. So you would assume children are happy not because they are foolish but because they don't bear the burden of knowledge to a great extent. They and the example has been an example has been given that a kid can believe anything however impossible it may seem to someone who is older and who processes things different. Right? So is indeed And and doesn't enlightenment come with the burden of knowledge or where is the difference between the enlightenment you describe and the bliss of a child who just believes because they believe >> you know being a child is sometimes um good.
>> Mhm.
>> Because I believe even the Lord said Jesus what did Jesus say?
>> Be like little children.
>> Why?
I don't know which kids he was talking about or the children he had interacted with.
>> Children are not the same. But enlightenment has its own perspective.
>> Mhm.
>> Has its own uh way >> of how you see things.
>> Yes.
>> Once you're enlightened to see how the world revolves. That's another thing.
You've talked about burden of knowledge >> and you've talked about being a fool.
When you have knowledge, you have two options. Either you give out the knowledge or you >> stay with the knowledge.
>> Yes, >> that depends with >> you can either be a fool or not be a fool.
>> Okay.
>> Some things are done foolishly because people tend to believe they're foolish.
That's what I'd say.
>> Okay.
>> Some people thrive in being foolish, right?
>> Mhm.
>> And some people enjoy being foolish.
>> And what does uh and what happens to their life?
>> They die because of being >> Mhm. And some people ignore the basic things of life that put them in trouble.
>> Okay?
>> You see, because when you have knowledge, you have everything you require in life.
>> Okay?
>> You get? So even the Bible says, "My people perish because of lack of knowledge."
>> So it's up to you to decide whether you want the knowledge you want in life or you want your own perspective.
>> Okay, >> that's it.
>> Okay. Now, how strong is the oath that one takes in initiation?
Let's measure the strength in terms of concerning the oath. Yes. Like if let's say for in this is just to give a spectrum of how strong the oath is.
But how does that take place?
>> Because you're not supposed to say when there are things that you can't say under certain circumstances. You will guard these secrets with your life.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Under the influence of alcohol, can the oath withstand the influence of alcohol?
>> I believe so because I've never drunk so I cannot be able to to know it.
>> Is it?
>> If I was a drunker, I could have told you.
>> Uh yeah. So, so is this a you thing or it's against Masonic principles to to drink?
>> It's it's a me thing.
>> Oh, it's a you thing.
>> It's a me thing. So you trust the drunk admissions they will not say anything >> that's up to them if they want to reveal they want to reveal but for me with the masonic secrecy there's something that I told you that while we off >> I told you a brethren or brethren are bound on what to reveal to their family or to their friends >> you can be a mason you can come >> say and I can come and tell you >> king I'm a mason That's it. That's the obligation that I've been given at that particular moment.
>> Mhm.
>> You've challenged me and and you've told me there's a friend of yours who the husband was a mason.
>> The wife knew that but the husband was secretive. I think so.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Because the husband obligation was one to tell them they only masons.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. You don't be that. Yes.
>> What did the husband do?
She went while she opened up to them.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> To the family.
>> Yes.
>> Now, that was not a one day step.
>> Mhm.
>> It was not a one day event.
>> Yes.
>> Because he told you this man was secretive.
>> Mhm.
>> Apart from that.
Now, think the secrets that the woman had to endure.
>> Mhm.
>> Uhhuh. I want you to put yourself in her shoes.
>> Yes.
>> What were the thoughts that were running in her mind?
>> Wild. I I presume. Let's say if she was a person uh uh who would overthink the first thing she would overthink is what if this man sacrifices me and my children >> that's for a normal person.
>> Yes.
>> Mhm.
>> Because the husband has not been obligated to tell the wife concerning the masonic >> information.
And that's where many people go wrong.
Let me clarify this my brother. In Freemasonry, there's no human sacrifice which is involved.
Do you get me up to that?
>> I'm following. Yes.
>> Because you'll find somebody who will tell you what did you benefit from sacrificing your parents? Then you are in shock. Who said I sacrificed my parents to be >> Oh, you've been asked that.
>> Yeah.
>> What benefit did you >> gain for you to sacrifice your parents?
>> Then you're like, who said I sacrificed my parents? Mhm.
>> These were just their own thinking of he sacrific his own parents.
But what's the truth about that? No human sacrifices.
But when you tell individuals there's no sacrifice that goes on. Their minds have been calibrated to believe we are doing human sacrifice at a particular moment. What do these men hide while they stay alone at a certain hall in Nairobi? M >> they are planning on how to sacrifice their parents and their wives.
>> Are there consequences to revealing the Masonic secrets?
>> I believe so.
>> Spiritual or uh there's a battalion that will deal with you perpendicularly.
>> That means they'll be subjected to gains if I'm not wrong. Yeah.
>> Not necessarily, but they you will be dealt with. Are there consequences?
>> Yeah, there consequences.
are spiritual or physical.
>> Let me hide that for now.
>> That's not their consequences. That's why you under oath. I don't know if you're getting me.
>> I'm following. Yes.
>> That's why you're under oath.
>> Mhm.
>> If right now, how many people take oaths in Kenya?
>> Many.
>> I don't think Kenyans take oath seriously because how many times did you hear someone say m I swear >> and they don't even mean it.
>> Let let me let me put you in this uh manner. Let me take you back to to judges people like those let's assume I'm telling you we are dealing with straightforward people yes we're not dealing with people who are crooked or who are on crooked ways somebody who has taken his oath >> how serious is that man or that woman >> when you meet someone who's committed to an oath they are they really are committed to the oath >> to the last day of that oath >> yes yes yes I've seen such people >> you've seen such people >> the same same way here. That's why I told you in order for you to become a member, character is what is looked at.
That is what is looked at. That is what many people look at in Freemasonry.
This idea and this concept of character really pops up in your conversation and it means so much to you. The character of a person which begs the question, what is your view of morality? My view of morality is how Let me ask you one question. What is morality >> in your own perspective? Let's deal with facts.
>> Morality is perspective in my opinion.
>> H good or bad is what you think it is to a great extent. And uh I will tie this to something profound I came across that summarizes it. uh human beings are the most are the most dangerous animals in the world because of their capacity to rationalize. Do you know someone can kill and justify justify why they killed someone else and it would make sense at least to them.
>> Yeah. And it would not they would not feel the wrong because they have convinced themselves that they have done something just and it makes sense. So according to that person uh the the the moral compass is very shaky compared to popular belief. So that's my opinion of morality >> because if somebody can justify that he killed a person >> that's a different type of a person. But many people even you right now when you break this glass >> you can justify why you broke it.
>> Yes.
>> Right.
>> Yes.
>> Now let me take you asking me why character is of more importance >> uh to me. Right.
>> Mhm.
>> Let me take you back. Let's use Catholics for example.
>> Yes.
>> What makes people to become priests?
>> Uh I've heard of a vow of chastity, purity, relationship with God. Very many reasons. Yes.
>> Yeah. That's what makes a person to become what >> a priest.
You get me?
>> So we share it's like we share the same values with Catholics.
>> You get >> what am I saying? Why am I saying like that? Because if you look at the way of life of Cathol is the same is a little bit the same.
>> Mhm.
>> With ours.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Princip but not all Catholics are priests and not all all in fact >> No, I'm saying the priesthood side. Oh, the priesthood side.
>> That's I've mentioned the priesthood side.
>> Not mention the whole Catholics.
>> Leave alone the whole Catholics will get there.
>> Some priests are flexible with their morals. So that is that where you draw the line?
>> Now you've said some priests are flexible with their morals, right?
>> Now that's where um we come in.
>> Yes.
>> You get?
>> Yes.
>> If you know you're flexible with your morals, why come?
Can't you just say uh it's done for me?
>> That's a very >> Why keep on hiding? Nobody. Let's put it freely.
When he says, "I'm done."
>> Mhm.
>> You get Let me put it this way for you.
Let me give you uh let's let me let me say something, bro. There's this narrative that when you become a Mason, you cannot go out or you cannot come out of being a Mason.
>> Mhm. Is it true or false on your own perspective?
>> I've heard that actually. You can't leave. I've heard that myself.
>> That's where you guys go wrong.
>> Mhm.
>> Because you can actually leave. Let me give you an example with Loj4 the time that it was I think the time that it was starting a little bit.
>> While J Chand was um Chand was the watchful M of that lodge. Mhm.
>> What happened? There were 95 people of each and they had members.
You get the 95 of the members. They selected their own five uh representatives. Out of the five, four of them resigned.
>> Mhm.
>> You get they resigned from being a mason. No forcement, no nothing. Them deciding to resign.
>> Mhm.
>> You get it? Right. Now, let's flip it back to Catholics.
When you are done with priesthood or when you feel you don't want to continue with priesthood, what do you do?
>> Mhm.
>> You can the pope can vouch for you and you can do something that's called liization and you can be able to move from being um a priest >> and 90% of the people or 90% of the study has shown one thing. The people who have been laid or the realization that has been done they go out and marry. Mhm.
>> Were they asked >> in in from the little information I have about Freemasonry? I also understand that uh even you depending on the level you play at, there are things you don't know.
The secrets are shared when you say fraternal. Okay. There the secrets are shared by levels. There are things you would need to qualify to know, right?
>> What are the secrets? uh kama a grandmaster mason has access to some things you don't have to if you're not a grandmaster mason if you're just a member I'm assuming >> he has access to some of the things not some of the information yes >> mark you we are on the same lodge how will he have some of the things the only thing that he can have is some a little bit of information and the little bit of information that he can be able to be bad let me put this out now clearly from me knowing as somebody maybe as an enter the printer That is the lowest level.
>> Mhm.
>> Is just how to run or lead a lodge.
Simple. Because how will I be able to know how to lead a lodge? Surely >> I'm an enterp guest on the show. We did that episode.
He has said some very interesting things about uh Freemasonry.
In fact uh Anma one time he he's a former Mongiki leader. One day they broke into a lodge they went to steal because they believe there's money, there's riches and there's valuables. So when they broke in, when they got in, there's a room that when they got to he saw a skeleton coming and he as a he's of a sound mind, he saw a skeleton that had eyes. Uh he he's a very it's a very interesting graphic description and he is a man of God, right? Yeah.
>> And this where the paradox comes at everything they had picked and they ran for their lives. And according to him that's one of the things he feared. So When I listen to you, I get your perspective. When I listen to Apostle During, he's a man of God who stands to preach to people every day. Which leaves us with a question.
Let me ask you one thing.
>> When you hear about skeleton, what comes in your mind as a normal person?
>> It's probably a robot to secure the place >> because another the basic the basic principle is skeleton is a dead person.
>> Okay.
>> He's been dead for long. Okay.
>> And who you and and and which type of people use dead people?
I've tried to make sense of that situation practice fasting. So in his 80 days of fasting you're interfering with my fasting. So that is because I try to make sense of things differently >> you know. Um first of all let's give apostolic credits and uh what is what is let me put it that way >> but if I was to think >> of that uh scenario >> of the skeleton coming >> yes >> when a normal person or when um let's say a normal let's use just a normal person >> when they think about skeleton they think of it as maybe as a devil thing devilish thing demonic thing that's a demonic thing in fact >> right >> I want you take you back.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. In 1990, I think 1994, 1995.
>> Yes.
>> Who was the president at that particular time?
>> Daniel to teach.
>> Okay. Daniel, right?
>> Yes.
>> Daniel himself, what did he do?
>> He declared a commission on investigation at some point to investigate devourship in Kenya at some point.
>> In Kenya and free mercenary being included.
>> Yes.
>> Do you know that?
>> Mhm.
>> What was what were the findings? So now according to During who I believe was called to either witness to give witness a witness account um said something that stifled that investigation to the best of my knowledge I don't know anything else beyond that >> now what what happened is this >> even if you listen to Dr. of he said >> yes >> many people came to the lodge at that particular time the investigations were done even the police who came were friends of the people who were there >> and they never found any demonic thing involved in that particular place I will ask you this question doctor the way you h you have heard the story of the late president >> Arab >> if he found truly that was a demonic place do you think he could have accepted the hole to be uh you're a philosophical person and that's a good thing. That's what makes this conversation enjoyable.
Uh without mentioning names, you you would accept without seeing anyone, we've had five presidents, it's possible that one of them has been a member of the Freemasons society.
Can we say that it is possible? I'm not I'm not putting you on the spot. I'm saying It's possible, right?
>> Before I answer you, I want you to answer me this.
>> If found out >> Mhm.
>> I watched, let me use this. Let me say this. I happen to watch that interview by him.
>> What did he speak about >> he was very strict. He said >> he was very strict. Now, whatever was found, do you think could have entertained that nonsense?
It's very difficult. I'm not saying I'm not supporting or I'm not I'm not forming an opinion about this particular situation. But if you ask me about Daniel to teach my uh there are examples of things he has commissioned and when the findings did not favor him, they killed the investigation. And I'm not saying that's what happened in this particular case, but it's unfair to the Freemason society to use that example because it will be unfavorable to >> now me I'm not saying >> let me stand with my own feet.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> You see me I'm speaking on the side of how was >> you get?
>> Mhm. If something is not right, let's say it's not.
>> Mhm.
>> Let me tell you this. The way this nation has been since the first president till now >> Mhm.
>> it's believed to be a Christian nation.
True or false?
>> Believed.
>> Believed.
>> Interesting word. Yes.
>> It's believed to be a Christian nation.
>> Yes. Anything about above that that's why you see they cannot entertain anything masonic anything what when they see anything >> is in that hypocritical come serious establishment isn't that hypocritical if major infrastructure have been donated and built by the freemason society >> but again and again we keep on saying what do Kenyans believe or what do people thrive in misinformation. Mhm.
>> How many couples of how many times let me even use you as an example after this people will say ah now Dr. decided to join them >> when people see you they have that reflection of you're speaking to the devil himself >> impression.
>> Mhm.
>> That's what many people think about.
>> Mhm. You'll find somebody seated down there and saying I know you get you even find preachers that's why I say if you're a preacher preach the gospel the way it is don't come on and put on freemasonry on top of it >> don't come here and say hey Freemasonry did this Freemasonry did that or that's why we are not prospering as um as a nation did this did that how many pastors are there in Freemasonry I'll ask you that How many pastors in Freem >> Okay, let me rephrase what you've said.
There are pastors in Freemasonry.
>> Yeah, >> that's what you're saying.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Mhm.
>> So, >> pastors that we know like but we don't know they are freemasons.
>> But you don't know they are Freemasons.
>> And I think that's >> you cannot find them speaking outwardly.
Uh some of the negativity things that I hear >> but I think that's hypocritical from my perspective. Like where you are Mason.
you are proud to be a Mason and you can come out. Why would someone be a pastor preach to his people uh the gospel as per the Bible? Yeah. Christianity. Why can't they tell the people but I'm also a free mason and this is because that is his personal opinion. That is his personal decision. For example, let's say you're a footballer somewhere.
If you had a girlfriend, if you had a girlfriend, for example, and this happens to people a lot, right? You're probably a private person, which is fine. But if you notice that Anaku edit out deliberately, wouldn't you feel some type of a way?
>> H like it may not be a perfect example, but let's say your wife.
>> Now you should know, you should be able to know who you're dating.
Just know who you're dating.
>> Exactly. So this is your member where you are a member and you're proud. But who you preach, right? But Now that has brought me to another thing.
>> Mhm.
>> People don't understand the concept of why I speak freely like this.
>> Mhm.
>> You get me?
>> Yes.
>> I'm here as an informer.
>> Mhm. And I respect that.
>> To give you information of which you guys don't know about Freemasonry.
>> I appreciate that.
>> If there's no about if it's not about information, I could not be here.
But because of the misconceptions that run through these platforms run through the the media run through everywhere 90% of what people have consumed are just misinformation from the first day till the last day.
And I usually tell people like this.
Let's for example take a kid. Whatever you feed that kid in his mind until he grows up, he'll remain like that.
If it's okay or not okay, I'm not saying we don't respect our parents because that's that's the first commandment. Children, do what? Obey your parents.
because I'm a Christian you know people will tend to say ah these are demons speaking somewhere not like that so now that's an interesting thing and we thank you for that uh bit of information I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a Christian right so you believe in the principles of Christianity but then you subscribe to a society that most Christians frown upon and I respect that you you give information like probably it's not what you think it is very smart response right but isn't there a clash in terms of want to preach gospel but they preaching gospel in a certain way right uh how do you balance the allegiance yeah I am a Christian you're misrepresenting Christianity but let me let me demystify freemasonry >> let me say this >> if we start demystifi if we start correcting Christianity we have a long way to go >> okay >> people have been calibrated to think what they want to think >> okay you'll find people going to the forest to fast until they die. What has their mind been done? Calibrated to then >> you'll find another set of people.
>> Mhm.
>> They have been calibrated to worship the pastor.
>> Whatever pastor says it's okay.
>> If the pastor comes and says tomorrow we are not watching King's show, they will not watch even if you tell them what.
>> What has that done? Are they preaching God? That's my question.
>> No, >> they are there to empower themselves.
>> That's why you find There's this uh thing that many preachers are not here to preach the gospel. Rather, they're here to just empower the empire to leave them for their children.
>> How many preachers have we seen that they've left the pullpit to their kids?
>> Is it supposed to be like that?
>> No.
>> Now, I should be standing and saying, "Hey, you're preaching this. It's wrong.
It should be preached like this." No.
>> Okay.
>> Me, I believe. That's why you hear um salvation is a personal decision.
I cannot come and start preaching to I cannot even if you're a senior of the of the highest level I cannot just come here and start telling you must believe I cannot come and force you to do that why >> okay so s as we wind up you are a Christian uh do you find certain principles in masonic society that clash with the beliefs you have in Christianity you balance 50/50 you believe in Jesus 50% who >> was King Solomon subitting to >> he was before Jesus time.
>> He's Jesus actually is a descendant of King Solomon.
>> He's a descendant of King Solomon. Yes.
>> But when you speak about Jesus, we speaking about Christ, right? Yes. We are speaking about the Lord, right? Who is believed to be the supreme being, right?
>> Yes.
>> So, >> who was King Solomon submitting to?
>> To God. To God. Yes.
>> Let me ask you another question. Who was Jesus submitting to? The way he put it >> to God. H to God. God the the creator of the universe.
>> My question is if we submit under one person >> Mhm.
>> our obligations different.
>> Ah okay.
>> Our our how how are they called our principles different.
>> I understand. I understand what you mean. I understand what you mean. So thank you. You've demystified to the best.
So what is your freemason as Philip? What do you think of the concept Illuminati which I believe is very different from freemasonry but >> people tend to mix it because they don't know the difference >> because Illuminati is was conspired to be evolved. It had evolved around a certain particular time.
>> Mhm. of which I cannot be able to speak much about it because I don't know.
>> Okay.
>> If I was coming to speak about Illuminati now from the one >> no no I understand what you mean but your thought that's why your thoughts on the concept like you know what it is. So and and I'm sure as a as a as an individual you've interacted ah by the where this is coming from >> me from my own perspective I believe Illuminati evolved some uh time back of which today we cannot be able to say it's at a certain place >> it's not like freemasonry we can link it to England we can link it to a certain place we cannot be able we cannot be able to say freemasonry is at a particular spot freemason h not freemason Illuminati is at a particular sport it does this this and this story is not widely spoken about. It's not widely given out to people. People were not engaged much into it. It just came >> and then vanished into thin air.
>> So So as we come to a close, first of all for making time for us. Number two, what is it that part of this conversation you would wish people to know before story? Of course to cover but as a parting shot your just your own opinion. Yeah. correct some things. This is your moment.
>> What I would love to correct is um there are many things that have been obligated and have been discussed.
>> Once somebody uh becomes a Mason or not a Mason, there are things that they know and there are things that they don't know. Um the thing I would love first to say is that we as Freemasonry we are not involved in any political or any standing of any political activity whether in Kenya or whether in any place you get >> yeah yeah I get I get I just remembered that you told us you will answer me something about if you've ever had a member who is a president >> okay we'll just reach there now um we are not involved in any political uh discussions.
>> You don't have any political affiliation.
>> We don't have any political affiliation because once you come to the lodge doctor, we are all the same. Whether doctor, whether plumber, whether who whether who we are all the same. Whether you support this political side, whether you support this, we are all the same because of one thing. If we start discussing politics, we get divided.
>> There will be division in the lodge.
>> Mhm.
>> And once there's division, we cannot be able to call it a brotherhood. It has already changed it face because people cannot be um together or they cannot be apart and then you call it a brotherhood. Right.
>> So politically we are not involved in anything politics but as politics we are not there.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> But you have politicians who are members of >> but when they come there we are equal.
>> You're equal.
>> I will not look you as a politician. I will look you as king who you are.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. I will not start addressing you as the person who you are.
>> I'll address you directly the way you are.
>> Okay. I mentioned to you that Nilipa, one of the greatest uh um military leaders in the world arguably Napoleon Bonapart strong very very like big deal was a member of the Freemason society.
uh Republican party in the US uh had very very many people who are members of uh the Freemason society and uh England's son and asana to a great extent some people would argue that to get to certain levels you must have the blessings of the freemasons because of course for obvious reasons we would assume don't mention anyone someone who has been president.
That's not secret you're giving.
Okay. There has been a member who has been there has been a president who has been a member.
Okay.
for making time for us. I hope in terms of what you'd like to demystify >> um but there are some things that many people have not been able to understand >> like >> when we speak at um u we we spoken about the media >> about freemason in the media are you good with that >> 100% but I would be very interested to know the mindset that you would have yeah the clearance you went you just don't wake up and open a channel to demystify Freemasonry this I believe in my head of heads with how secret the society is you had to go through very many channels for you to come out publicly and talk about free >> I spoke about that I told is not something that was just done accepted many people will think >> h you called me yesterday I told you tomorrow let's meet let's do this >> yes >> it has been a journey you It has taken me time.
>> Yes.
>> When you called me and you told me, "Bro, let's sit down."
>> I had to go to the lodge, >> talk down to the people who are the lodge. I had even to engage my watchful master who is let me let me happen to mention engineer.
You get >> engineer.
>> Yeah.
You get me? I had to go through those uh challenge to be able to be here today with you.
>> I appreciate that.
>> Somebody will say this guy just wakes up one day, >> meets people, talks about this thing and it's like that. No, >> it's a journey. It's a process.
revealing uh talking about free you know it's not something that is acceptable in the society right now when where we living >> it has taken months to set this up >> under the influence >> it is not under the influence >> but it was just a simple thing you have been granted the permission to go and speak I know what to say I know what not to say But I'll have to give it to you. I in my head I was prepared for this to be the shortest episode we've ever done because I would understand if pass. No pass pass. But you're a smart person and thank you for the good.
>> We cannot be able to say that. The other thing freemason acceptance to the world.
>> The earlier Africa accepts Freemason is the the better. We should be able to accept it.
>> But it's not accepting.
You have your reasons which you will not tell us that if it's uni we are doing the general good. We want the world to be a better place >> but >> but we are blocking people. We are blocking uh people like uh wouldn't it be if it's all good vibes? Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the society to have as many people as possible uh to make the world a better place?
>> What do you think about uh Freemasonry in the countries that we mentioned where it has been accepted? Well, >> Britain has their own problems.
In fact uh one of the most interesting things how ungovernable Britain is England as a country. So come free for 400 years or so 300 over 300 years >> and they still have their own problems >> that's a challenge to them as a country.
>> We're speaking here as a free accepting freemason itself.
>> Mhm.
>> You get me? We are not speaking here at the context of um Britain. Let's say let me ask you one thing as Kenyans do we have our own problems? Yes, we do. But the acceptance of freemasonry in England is greater than other places. And the context would be they are a better place, right?
>> A better place. How would you describe by the acceptance? There's a difference between them and Africa which has not accepted.
>> There's a difference with with England and Africa.
>> I would say there is none.
>> Why can you raise? Right.
>> They are there to quote a friend I met Joy and it was Charles Melanga there are rich people in Kenya just the same way there are poor people in the countries that we look look up to. So my opinion if I can give it the structure of society is the same everywhere. There's poor people there's rich people. simple a country like Britain, the US. It was interesting to watch that the USog are struggling because illegal immigrants because there is a part of the economy they support. Right? So this means the wealth of these nations come Britain has been built now cheap labor to some extent slavery to some extent extraction of resources from the different countries to some extent. So prosperity Britain itself is getting loans at expensive rates almost.
Let me say this >> and in those countries is Freemasonry public?
>> Yes. Yes. Britain. Yes. England.
>> I'm just asking. Is it public?
>> Yes, it is.
>> Do they do their things publicly?
>> You mentioned Yes.
>> I want you just to answer. I mean, do they do the things publicly?
>> Yes, they do.
>> Do they hide some of the things that they do?
>> Of course they do. like >> the initiation if you see >> now that's the initiation part I'm not speaking about the initiation part I'm speaking the outward projection of it how they walk how they do their things >> come to our country >> do we do that >> you have not tried it just happened to fear it's not about fear >> it's not about fear >> it's about what people have portrayed you When people from England for example, >> they find people dawned in their >> aprons.
What what runs into their mind?
No. No, they will not.
What will be the first thing? Wearing your sport shoes.
You'll run because we have not been able to Africans. We have not been able to apart from Ghana. We have not been able to be calibrated on our minds that we can publicly.
It's not about fear.
If it was fear, we could not be here right now.
Muslims are doing their thing.
No, no, no.
Because by the come to think of it, why haven't you acceptance? We have not been accepted to the society.
What could they have been doing >> because every day is a national holiday in Kenya depending on what you do in life. Listen, >> what could they be doing?
Some people who don't their things on the heads >> could they be wearing them? No.
>> Why we have not accepted them?
>> I get what you mean. But still point number one what you you said in terms of things people don't know things people have no access to but you have I understand I understand what you mean I understand the principles of my friends we do things the way we want to we we live by our principles So up to that point I understand but if at all if there's any chance and thank you for clarifying that you guys don't do human sacrifices but Philip honestly would you tell us? Yeah. Why should I hide?
>> Philip, you would tell >> if if something is open, state it. If something is open, state it.
Why hide?
>> Now let me say this. I hide.
You come join. Who will you blame?
Who will you when you're coming you yourself? You're not expecting but some people before the before you coming out to start sharing information I believe you've had people who want to come because they have someone to sacrifice >> obviously >> expect >> obviously >> you understand >> but now they're principles they're rules you get >> I There's a difference between you come you come expecting so in you understand I was prepared.
>> Now if you're prepared to come there's one thing that will bury you Mhm.
>> from entering.
>> Mhm.
>> And I repeat it each and every time I speak. Yes.
>> Your character.
Your character.
What makes me inter what makes me interact with Dr. King is because of your character.
>> Mhm.
>> There's a character you can portray.
Even people who are around around me will tell you.
>> I will not deal with you. I cannot deal with you.
>> Mhm. Understood?
>> You can have everything.
If I come, I vouch for Dr. King. And then another person I told you need, you require four people.
>> Mhm. And the other person says, "We know this guy." Mhm.
>> as a Buja.
Do you think you'll be able to come or we know this guy's character?
This is a man of funny character. Okay.
Funny character.
Good or bad depends on what someone thinks. Good or bad in the perception of the Bible or the ten commandments. But good or bad someone from church. Okay.
Someone from church. If you were if you saw someone, right? someone very it depends on you to kill one person to save a thousand.
>> What would they do?
They would shoot the person. So you understand? So at that point have they killed or have they not killed?
>> They have killed.
>> You understand? So morality this my point morality this person can live with themselves because h of the perspective you either see you've killed one person or you've saved a thousand people but bottom line is >> you've killed.
>> You understand? So morality could define morality in >> my question is >> yes >> when we looking at a character >> Mhm. Will that did you kill will it be looked at or will we will look at we saved a thousand people what will what will we look at let's assume that person has come right here right >> mhm >> we looking at character >> mhm >> he killed right >> mhm >> how many people he killed a person right to save what it was a fake bomb they were just bluffing M >> now we talking let's put it like that >> now we are internalizing the character of that particular person >> what did he do >> they whether you are a doctor or an engineer and you sell ice cream what will we write >> ice cream seller >> so what year will we write or what year will you speculate >> you're a good representative for the launch and keep doing what you're doing and I wish you all the best.
So now when we speak about some of the things I will go back to masons in Africa >> Mhm. You get once freemason in Africa has been able to be accepted many things will be able to change leave alone the while we are talking with you we are talking on a perspective of the economy how there are rich people here rich people there leave alone the rich people you get me whether rich or poor I told you whether rich or poor you can do what you can become a mason you know people think it's an only wealthy people's affair >> but if you are poor and you in the freemason you are wasting your freemasonry Not like that.
>> You know what people think is uh in order for you to join you'll become how is it called?
>> Rich.
>> You must be rich first. Not not uh you must be uh when you enter you be rich.
You must be rich first. Understand that concept.
>> So you will be rich after.
>> Listen understand the concept of being rich first.
>> Okay.
>> Before we continue, right?
>> Now leave alone that phrase of um economy here. Bad poor that's the everywhere. If right now we never had people who are poor in the society, >> how could life be?
Mhm.
>> If you only had rich people, >> you are rich, I'm rich, the next person is rich, blah blah blah, how could life be?
>> Interesting. interesting in terms of um there was a time where okay there was a time where uh the survival of human beings was in terms of access to what you can eat hunter gather society then there came the industrialization which gives birth to capitalism which brings the divide between the rich and the poor okay in economics the perfect market condition equilibrium fair market everyone has access to resources never happened but in an ideal situation uh there will be no the people wouldn't have the urge to to look for staff but still I don't think such a situation would exist because if you're rich and I'm rich there's something you need from me there's something I need from you and one way or another the balance of resources depends on how had people go in what they want and what they need that structure will always be there. There are poor people even in Jesus times.
>> Now that thank you for that.
>> I just ask you a simple question. How could it be when we all rich? Now if acceptance of freemasonry in Africa can become another thing we can be good all I'm saying is this. Let's be like uh for example England you get me?
>> Like we can be able to speak freely. We can be able to express what do you know when this thing is outward outwardly accepted even in our country it could be easier bro the things that we speak people could not be saying speculating this why do people not gather somewhere to speak about capitalism >> why don't you in in what you're doing now demystify do the same thing acceptance not acceptance is this a Crusade is figurative. Yeah, we have a good message that can make the society better. H come gather here we tell you the message. That's how Christianity has been spread.
>> Now in Africa, Freemasonry has been made that first you must show interest, right?
>> You must show interest.
>> You must show interest.
>> Uhhuh. Okay.
>> Once you show interest, that's the time you'll be able to know what real Freemasonry is all about.
>> Okay. If you don't have interest right now, if you didn't have interest, could you have known matters concerning premis? No.
>> Uh interest. I'm a curiosity.
>> I'm saying interest.
>> Let me let me leave alone yours. Let's say a particular person. Interest is somebody who wants to join.
>> Ah okay.
>> Uhhuh.
>> He'll be able to know the deeper instincts of what Freemasonry is all about.
>> Mhm.
>> You get me?
>> Yes. You must be able to know he'll be able to be uh to be explained more and more and more >> until he becomes an entered apprentice.
You get me?
>> Mhm.
>> So from there he'll be able to run many things. He'll be able to know now we are doing this. We're moving from this step to this step to the next step to the next step until if God keeps him through till the 33rd degree.
Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> So 33rd degree and then I've heard people saying while you while you reach the 33rd degree you speak to the devil himself. Now I want you to ask you just one simple question.
So it means those great people have been speaking to the devil all that time.
Have they been speaking to the devil all that time? Let me tell you, u we had Liro on the show and I called him.
Hey, we have um we've we've received mixed reactions from the feed from the episode we had. H it was interesting.
He knew what I meant. Some people were very mad that we had brought him on the show. He laughed so hard. Even the devil has his side of the story. I said this to someone uh who we go to church with and they took that statement very seriously. Okay. So now uh why did I bring up this story? When you say the so-called uh nan nani uh 33rd degree Mason speaks to the devil directly.
Right here we will go to perspective.
Even if they did, would they tell us?
>> Yeah. Why would they tell us if they know how people will >> they will tell they will tell the people who are the lodge?
>> They will tell people the Lord and the people who are the Lord will be bound by an oath not to say anything not to be.
>> It depends with what uh some of the information that they received. Let me tell you this.
>> Yes.
>> What you're bound to not to say is just the traditions. So it means the tradition of freemasonry since day one has been speaking to the devil. Right.
>> That's an example.
>> Yeah. I'm saying like that because tradition I'm saying the traditions are what are kept secret in order for keep it secret and keep it like that. So it means if they bound not to say it means part of that tradition or part of that secret um tradition speaking to the devil.
>> Uh no I wouldn't know as in you wouldn't tell us what the secret is. So I can't speculate >> and I'm not saying at Freemasonry is involved with the devil. Not at all. I'm not saying that.
>> You get me?
>> Yes. Yes. I get what you mean though.
>> If acceptance in Africa >> Mhm.
>> can just be a good thing, Freemasonry will be one of the best thing. If other societies have been accepted, why not Freemasonry?
>> Uh let me ask you, what is your life without Freemasonry?
>> My life is just a normal life. You just get to see the perspective of Freemasonry. You know me because of Freemasonry. But when we step out there, we can do business. What if tomorrow I will be your lawyer at the court? What will be?
>> Will you look at me as a lawyer or will you look at me >> as a lawyer? Most definitely. So I'm like when you say it will be the best thing for Africa to accept it. I'm like okay what is Africa missing out by not >> it's missing out. It's missing out a lot. A lot and a lot. Why am I saying a lot? Because some of the things are being done like a secret. And that's why you hear people say it's a secret >> society.
>> The secret things is what Africa is missing out on. The good things, >> the good things.
>> No, because we cannot be able to come and do some things publicly >> because they come and speculate this and this this and this.
>> But but they are good things. I wonder why people would be against good things.
>> You know, people are against good things because of one thing, religion.
>> Mhm.
>> And misinformation.
>> But you are a Christian and a member of the Freemason.
>> Yeah. Right. So now h what the difference between another Christian?
What's the difference? I'm also a Christian. So what's the difference between you and me in terms of there's benefits in like if what what is this good thing that you can't tell someone like if you have a friend okay my friend you're missing out on this right what is this good thing that has to be done in secret and I want to tell you this it's not done in secret because it wants to be done in secret.
>> Mhm.
>> It has not been accepted. You've said I'm a Christian. You're a Christian, right?
>> Yes.
>> But you're fighting Freemasonry. It itself, it's like me coming to fight you playing football.
>> I'm not fighting.
>> No, I'm saying an example. You coming to fight Freemasonry.
>> It's like me coming to fight you playing football.
>> Now, when we in church and I start saying uh playing football is bad. We saw the last player who played football did this and this. M >> the last play of football did this and this.
>> Mhm.
>> What am I doing?
>> Am I encouraging you? Not even >> or the other person who wants to join football. What am I doing?
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, get you get your acceptance and perception. So, let's say right in need. Okay. and I pay the rent in secret because they will be mad at me if they know I'm supporting them. So if they really need and I'm doing something good for them understand like we all fight this platform is about information. Ah we are sharing get as much information as possible out there right so people can know so that they can make decisions informed decisions. So good things like good vibes like gospel the gospel of the lord this is good news at a good news bible right uh but there's limitations when it comes to freemasonry like this is good things we're doing but you people will not accept it because of perception uh or maybe this is the like conversations like what you're doing on your social media platform is the beginning of acceptance. Maybe I don't know.
>> Yeah, I can see the beginning of acceptance for those who have decided to accept it. It's not for everyone.
Some will follow it just to fight it.
How many people come and tell how many uh some of your preachers come and tell me it is the last time of the earth?
>> Oh, they tell you that.
>> Yeah.
>> But you tell them they are contemporaries are members.
>> No, you cannot start arguing with a fool. You know when you argue with the fool you become one.
>> M >> because I know outwardly what even them are preaching is different.
>> Okay. You you >> tackled that.
>> You've explained that. Yes. You've you've explained that.
>> Now if you don't know even the Bible says yeah >> if you cannot love >> Yes.
>> the God that you've not seen.
>> Yes.
>> How can you love your friend who you've seen?
Okay. Okay. Okay.
The the what do we call it the myths the misconceptions that you hear about your society out here that shock shock you? uh the confidence that people talk about Freemasonry and you say they don't know, right? And you say it doesn't bother you, right? And that's a very strong place to be. You're also doing your fair share of informing, giving information, the information that you can share, right? But there's benefits to the secrets remaining secrets and and uh the people who get recruited to go through the system that they are going through because it is not a mass thing. There's no other acceptance. You don't see a place where it's a mass acceptance thing like Freemasonry and now it's at the same level Christianity or anything and you're okay with that because 300 years is enough head start to have built but over 2 million now right >> membersh two billion eight no two billion I think right now Islam you don't see such numbers come in in 300 400 and counting.
>> Those are for the people who have been enlightened to know what they want in this world.
That's how I can put it.
>> Enlightened to know what they want in this world.
>> I hope.
>> Thank you very much for making time for us.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> See you on the next one.
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