CLIMATE DEBATE GETS HEATED, SENATOR KENNEDY GRILLS EXPERT ON COST OF CLIMATE CHANGE

[00:00:00]Um, uh, next is Senator Kennedy, who will be followed by Senator Kaine.

[00:00:04]>> Thank you.

[00:00:05]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[00:00:07]Uh, Congressman, welcome.

[00:00:09]>> Thank you, Senator.

[00:00:10]>> I I just want to say, um, on a personal note, um, I'm I'm so pleased that you beat your cancer diagnosis.

[00:00:21]>> You're very kind.

[00:00:22]>> We, uh, we all followed your unfortunately public, um, dealing with that. And >> My bandana made it public, I think.

[00:00:33]>> Yes.

[00:00:34]But it was a nice touch. It's a nice touch. And I'm, uh, I'm sorry about your son.

[00:00:40]>> Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:00:42]>> I gather, Congressman, that you support trying to make the world carbon neutral by 2050.

[00:00:52]>> Yes.

[00:00:52]>> Okay.

[00:00:53]And I gather from your testimony that, um, in your judgment, part of of of achieving that goal is is, uh, eliminating the use of fossil fuel generated energy.

[00:01:10]>> Not immediately.

[00:01:12]>> Right.

[00:01:12]>> Um, but there are staged reductions that would be required in order for us to meet that goal, and I don't think it requires the absolute elimination of all carbon fuels. But I I think something like a steady 4% per year reduction.

[00:01:27]>> Uh, by 2050, um, how much do we need to eliminate?

[00:01:35]>> Well, what the scientists are telling us is that we we, in order to avert the most extreme calamities, we need to, uh, limit the global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius.

[00:01:51]>> what I'm getting at. Right now, America relies on fossil fuels for 80% of its energy.

[00:01:59]Uh by 2050, what percentage do you think that should be in order for us to become carbon neutral?

[00:02:07]>> Yeah, I better not opine on that because I don't know, but I will tell you this, uh and I see where you're going, um this is a tremendous challenge, maybe the greatest challenge of our lifetimes, and I think it >> I I understand. I'm sorry. But just give me a little bit of time here.

[00:02:22]>> Yeah.

[00:02:23]>> Um Are are you Let me ask you this. How How many people are there in the world? What's the world's population?

[00:02:32]>> Well, is it now 4 and 1/2 billion?

[00:02:34]>> It's about 8 billion.

[00:02:35]>> Is it 8? 8 billion?

[00:02:36]>> trying to trick you.

[00:02:38]I had to look it up myself.

[00:02:39]>> I should have updated on that today.

[00:02:40]>> It's 8 billion people living in the world.

[00:02:42]>> okay.

[00:02:43]>> Um 4 billion people depend on fertilizer made by natural gas to eat.

[00:02:55]If we didn't didn't have have natural gas, 4 billion people would starve to death.

[00:03:02]What do we do about that?

[00:03:04]>> So, that is I mean, that's precisely the challenge that we need to be confronting and that we should have been confronting all these decades. How do we disengage gradually from one model of energy consumption and move into another so that we are meeting the public health goals that are urgent, um as the distinguished senator from New Mexico just >> Are you familiar with a with with a what's called a boreal forest?

[00:03:35]>> A bor- uh no, only in the most cursory >> forest in the northernmost part of the world, just below the Arctic, um in in uh North America and Eurasia.

[00:03:48]Um mill- There millions of acres burned there naturally every year.

[00:03:55]Um the the the the fires are less today than they were 100 >> A routine Senate hearing quickly transformed into a fascinating debate over climate change, energy policy, fossil fuels, and the enormous costs associated with achieving carbon neutrality.

[00:04:11]What started as a discussion about environmental goals soon turned into a back-and-forth exchange as Senator John Kennedy pressed the Congressman on whether America can realistically eliminate fossil fuels without causing major economic consequences.

[00:04:25]The discussion touched on global energy dependence, food production, wildfire emissions, and trillions of dollars in projected climate >> 21 released double the amount of all global CO2 produced in 2001.

[00:04:42]And uh three times as much as the Inflation Reduction Act is projected to reduce by 2030. My point is the the the Inflation Reduction Act is going to end up costing about 1.2 trillion dollars.

[00:04:59]Presumably, their estimates about how much carbon it will reduce by 2030.

[00:05:05]American people going to spend a lot of money, 1.2 trillion dollars.

[00:05:09]For what?

[00:05:11]The the the carbon released by naturally occurring boreal forest forest fires in 2001 is three times the amount we'll save by asking the American people to spend 1.2 trillion dollars of their money on the Inflation Reduction Act.

[00:05:29]Now, you know, unless you're the reason that your parents drank, that doesn't make sense.

[00:05:36]Does it?

[00:05:37]>> So, th- th- Thank you. That I mean that's a trenchant question, Senator. Um I you know, I've heard these comparisons before between uh natural greenhouse gas emissions, which are obviously a product of forestry and agriculture and the agricultural revolution, and what we contribute through industrial greenhouse gas emissions. Um but I think it's a a bit of a distraction from the real issue because we take for granted >> So, peer review studies, Congressman.

[00:06:06]>> No, but and the peer reviewed studies show >> exist. I promise you.

[00:06:11]>> Oh, no, but I'm not doubting the science for 1 minute. I'm saying let's take the science for granted. Let's take nature for granted. Um thank God that that we have uh forests and we have greenhouse gas emissions that come from agriculture and so on. All of that um is something that we take for granted.

[00:06:30]Okay. Now, we also, however, can reduce uh agricultural greenhouse gas emissions um through looking at industrial livestock practices.

[00:06:40]>> My point is I'm going way over. This is my last question.

[00:06:43]>> Yeah. We We spend all this money.

[00:06:46]Okay. It's going to cost America about a trillion dollars a year to make us carbon neutral by 2050.

[00:06:52]>> Yes.

[00:06:53]>> We don't lower world temperatures a centile of a degree if you look at the boreal forest fires.

[00:07:01]So, what do we do?

[00:07:02]>> Oh, I got you. But But would you dispute that it would be far worse if we do nothing? In other words, if we stay on the path that big oil would have us stay on, are you denying that we would be in a situation where the Earth's temperature goes up >> That's not your goal in trying to make us carbon neutral is to be It's a It's a zero-sum game. Your goal is not to make it better. Your Your point is, as I understand it, that that the world will end if we don't achieve the carbon neutrality.

[00:07:31]>> Right. We want to prevent calamity. We want to make our one planetary habitat as livable as possible. Right?

[00:07:39]>> Do we need to spend trillions of dollars fighting the boreal forest fires.

[00:07:44]>> Well, let's let's go back to the Inflation Reduction Act, which you invoked before. Most of the money which you're describing as being spent on climate change measures was actually tax incentives for the stimulation of renewable energy.

[00:07:59]>> Agreed, but they're not stopping the boreal forest fires. I mean, we spend all this money and we we reduce carbon and the boreal forest fires just spit out three times the amount of carbon.

[00:08:13]>> All right, do do you I would love to read a peer-reviewed study on that. I mean, if we need a boreal forest >> Economist magazine, they talk about it all the time.

[00:08:23]>> All right, I will check that out, but I mean, is the suggestion that we need a boreal forest fire department?

[00:08:29]>> I'm asking you. I mean, I mean, I mean, well, what what y'all's position is I get I get it. Nobody's perfect. Oil and gas is bad and and they're destroying the world must get rid of them. Okay, if we do that, is that that's going to cost a lot if we do that, is the world going to be okay?

[00:08:49]The answer is no.

[00:08:51]>> I got you. I If you enjoyed this breakdown, don't forget to like, comment, and hit the subscriber button for more political showdown.