I Will Step Aside For Any Winner, Including Peter Obi – Abubakar

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]Tonight, an Arise News prime time special. An exclusive conversation with one of the most enduring figures in Nigerian politics, former Vice President Atiku Abubaka. For decades, his name has remained a constant in Nigeria's political equation. From the days of military rule to the corridors of power as vice president under Oligun Obassenjo to multiple presidential bids, his journey has been long, relentless, and unfinished. Now at 79, Aiku is gearing up for what could be his seventh attempt at the presidency. He brings with him a vast political network, deep experience, and a legacy that includes investments in education and philanthropy. But he also carries the weight of past defeats, lingering controversies, and growing questions among Nigerians. Is it time for something new? Because Nigeria itself has changed. The electorate is younger, more restless, and increasingly impatient with the old political order.

[00:01:12]So, as Artiku Abubaka steps forward once again, the questions are unavoidable.

[00:01:18]Can a familiar face still convince a changing nation? Or is this one final bid against the tide? Can he unite a fragmented opposition? Can he convince Nigerians he represents change, not continuity? I'll be joined exclusively by the former vice president of Nigeria, Atiku Abubaka. And later, we'll have top tier analysis of what he's had to say.

[00:01:47]I'm Charles Anyu, and this is an Arise prime time special.

[00:01:59]So, a familiar name returns to a familiar quest, but in a very different Nigeria. Atiku Abubaka, former vice president and one of the most enduring figures in this country's political history, is preparing for what could be his seventh run for the presidency in 2027.

[00:02:18]For decades, he's been at the heart of Nigeria's power structure, rising from the SDP to the PDP to the AC, then to the APC, back to the PDP, and now in the ADC, building a vast network of political, business, and personal alliances along the way. He's been close to power and just as often just short of it. from serving alongside a Luchun Abassenger as vice president to contesting and losing against figures like Mashud Abola, Umaru Musayer Adua, Good Luck Jonathan, Muhammad Buhari and most recently Ba Ahmed Tinibu. His presidential ambition has remained constant, but so have the questions. At 79, does Aiku represent experience or an old political order Nigerians are increasingly uncomfortable with? Can his vast network finally deliver victory? Or has the moment passed him by? And in a country grappling with economic strain, insecurity, and shifting political loyalties, is this resilience or one final roll of the dice?

[00:03:37]And I'm suitably delighted to say that the former vice president of Nigeria, Alhaji Atiku Abuaka, joins me now exclusively in the studio. Thank you very much indeed for coming in.

[00:03:49]>> Thank you, Charles.

[00:03:51]>> And not only did you agree to do the interview, you insisted on coming to the studio today. So, we appreciate that very much.

[00:03:58]>> Now, you've been a central figure in Nigerian politics for decades. And by the time the election comes around in 2027, you'll be 80. Respectfully, I mean, this may be your last realistic shot at the presidency. Does that make the stakes higher for you this time?

[00:04:19]>> Um, certainly yes, because um the stakes are higher because I believe that will be my last outing.

[00:04:30]And >> so that's on incontrovertibly >> that's incontrovertism.

[00:04:36]>> Right. So so beyond the fact that you have said conclusively that that'll be your last outing. Why should Nigerians take that gamble on you now? Why should they believe that you represent the future and not the past?

[00:04:55]>> I represent both the past and the future.

[00:04:59]uh simply because we have seen various levels of leadership in the country both young and old and we're experiencing them and I still believe that our expectations of the young leadership is below uh what we thought and we believe I personally believe uh they require experience and they require tutilage from the older generation.

[00:05:33]>> Yeah. But you don't have to be in power to give them give them that tutilage.

[00:05:37]>> Sometimes you need to be >> I mean you could be doing it now.

[00:05:39]>> Yeah. Sometimes you need to be because um what I was able to learn from President Obasanju through his experience. I couldn't have learned it outside.

[00:05:49]>> Right. But critics say you represent the same political establishment Nigerians are increasingly frustrated with. I mean why should they trust you to deliver something different?

[00:06:01]>> But look at it. Look at you know the the political experience has been a mixed one. We have had so many young governors in a number of states who have failed wolffully you know when it comes to governance uh childs and I believe those type of people still require toled still require to learn from experience believe me I don't think I could have learned if I were a president what I have learned you know and being vice president to president because he came with tremend tremendous experience >> uh from a military head of state and now to a civilian uh president. There was a lot I I learned.

[00:06:47]>> But I wonder if the real challenge for you um Mr. Vice President is not just defeating the incumbent um Bola Ahmed Tinubu but convincing Nigerians that you are not more of the same. I mean, I I know I'm banging on a bit about that, but why should they take the risk >> of choosing you now after so many previous attempts?

[00:07:12]>> Well, they there is a clear and stark difference.

[00:07:18]Um, take the cases of uh the state governors in a number of states >> being headed by relatively young people and failing wolffully.

[00:07:31]simply because at the apex they did not have a capable and experienced you know president to guide them and to of course uh give them the benefit of his experience and that's why we have been having a number of you know uh very very wful leadership at a number of states because they are being headed by inexperienced young men. Young men also require experience to be able to succeed.

[00:07:59]>> But is it an individual thing or a systemic thing?

[00:08:03]>> I think to me I will dis I will describe it as a systematic uh issue because we have had more failures in states than we even had at the federal level.

[00:08:16]>> Because I'm wondering whether you're saying that the system only became broken when you were no longer in power.

[00:08:24]um not necessarily but when we did not have um capable presidents with experience um at the hand of affairs >> and and when was that? I mean everybody to be fair recognizes the time that you and Obassure were in office as a sort of golden era um after sort of the return to democracy. Um but but what what other time after that are you talking about?

[00:08:55]>> For instance, let's take uh the era of um after Omari Erada who started very well >> and was succeeded by Jonathan Goodlock.

[00:09:07]I know Jonathan Goodlock very well, a decent young man but also in experience that I believe attributed you know to his uh to his failure to uh to manage affairs of the country uh particularly when he was faced with challenges. So these are the type of things uh that we in fact what I would like to see is real leadership training of our upcoming any young generation politicians.

[00:09:38]I wish I could introduce a leadership training.

[00:09:40]>> Well you could yeah >> I mean you you you own a university. I mean you could you could start a leadership institute.

[00:09:48]>> Yes.

[00:09:49]>> We need it. We need it in this country.

[00:09:52]But it hasn't occurred to you all this time that that's something you ought to do.

[00:09:56]>> Well, the university is an independent body is a growing institution. It's a little over 20 years now. And of course, not that it hasn't produced very very exceptional uh products. I have made their products all over the world and I was astonished to see them.

[00:10:15]>> Uh but then as you know universities are developing institutions. So maybe in due course they should be able to do that.

[00:10:24]>> Yeah. Obviously you can start a leadership institute independent of the university >> but but you are now aligned with the African Democratic Congress or ADC at a time when the party is facing legal battles as well as internal disputes. Do you believe that your presence on the ADC is building a viable platform or are you joining a coalition that's already under terrible strain?

[00:10:53]>> My J I must be frank with you. I am one of the initiators of this coalition or perhaps the leading you know initiator of the coalition because I remember when the PDP lost the last election I addressed the party I said I don't see future for PDP unless there is a coalition or broad-based coalition or alliance and the PDP leadership disagreed with me at that point in time >> what made you say that >> I I sadly because I studied you know the political history of Nigeria and I saw how alliances worked in the first republic in the second republic. I mean so it is not difficult for one to you know to to to predict or to explain you know to what I will say you know students of uh because I consider those young uh politicians as future leaders of Nigeria. So it's my responsibility to point out to them and I pointed out to them that the only future for PDP is in broad coalition and they disagreed with me and the reason why they disagreed with me was simple simply because they didn't want to see my face not what I was proposing and now they have found themselves in the same position.

[00:12:15]>> Yeah. But what I'm wondering is what was it that made you say that the future of the PDP was only in the coalition having yourself been a presidential candidate of the party?

[00:12:29]>> Studying the political history of Nigeria.

[00:12:32]>> No, I know but that that's a broad thing. I'm talking about specifically what is what is it? What did you see in the PDP that there was a warning sign?

[00:12:40]Yeah, because there was a declining a decline in the popularity of PDP and the states they were winning. So there was a decline there was no way you know they could have won on their own without you know a coalition.

[00:12:54]>> Was there the nettlesome factor of Namik there?

[00:13:00]Well, I mean, in fact, more or less it was like a kind of gang up.

[00:13:07]>> Gang up against you, >> possibly >> against the party.

[00:13:11]>> Uh, possibly against the party or based on their individual ambitions >> right now. Um, you're in the ADC coalition as we said.

[00:13:22]I mean, is is the coalition driven by a shared vision? And I'm coming off the back of what you just said about what happened in the PDP and you've been in several political parties including the APC. So you've got a very good sense of how parties come together and what makes them fall apart.

[00:13:42]>> Yeah.

[00:13:43]>> Is this coalition in of the ADC driven by a shared vision or simply a shared determination to remove Ba Ahmed?

[00:13:54]Um let me say let me say both because Bola has been a very bad president to be honest with you.

[00:14:00]>> How sir?

[00:14:01]>> I mean because I didn't expect that from him you know uh in the way he governs the the country whether economically or otherwise is is a disappointment.

[00:14:17]>> Right. Well, I'm going to return to that issue in a minute because um that's obviously important. Um but if if the ADC is about vision, which you suggest that it is, um can you clearly state what unites you beyond opposing the incumbent?

[00:14:40]>> Well, a number of things unite us. For instance, the issue of uh deepening our democratic institutions and the issue of separation of powers under the constitution.

[00:14:55]We feel very very concerned about that.

[00:14:59]We have seen how virtually you know uh a presidency has uh almost uh turn uh the various institutions that are supposed to be checks and balances you know under under one roof which is quite dangerous.

[00:15:21]>> Right. Um, okay. You've run for president now, as we said, multiple times. Some have called you a perennial contender. I'm sure you've heard that yourself a number of times. And you are aiming to run again in 2027.

[00:15:39]What, if anything, makes this attempt different from the others?

[00:15:44]>> Different in what way, Charles?

[00:15:46]>> Well, that's why I'm asking you that question. What makes it different from the other times that you >> What makes it different from the other times is that you have a more broader coalition. Now you have elements from APC, from PDP, from uh uh NP, from Labor. Um that makes it a much broader you know coalition than what even even happened in the past before.

[00:16:15]>> Yeah. But for you personally, >> for me personally, I see a lot of future because within the broad coalition, you see people of my generation, you see people below my own generation and, you know, down the line. So, you can see clear, you know, secession, you know, uh, uh, pattern. Imagine.

[00:16:37]>> Wasn't that the same thing that that happened in what was the APC coalition?

[00:16:43]>> Not necessarily. Not necessarily. I didn't see it in the APC coalition. You know, I I left the APC quite highly.

[00:16:51]Once I realized that they are going the wrong way, I left.

[00:16:55]>> Some would say once you realize that your political ambition wouldn't be achieved.

[00:16:59]>> No, not not no not about that. It wasn't about the personal ambition at all. No, absolutely not.

[00:17:06]>> So, what was it about?

[00:17:08]>> Um quite a number of things. I mean, of course, you are dragging me to, you know, uh start um uh going into the administration of late President Bhari, and I wouldn't want to do that because he's late.

[00:17:23]>> Right. Okay. Understood.

[00:17:26]Let's return to the ADC, which is the matter of the moment. If a consensus candidate emerges within the ADC coalition, would you step aside in the interest of unity?

[00:17:41]>> No, it's not the issue of stepping aside, but would I support?

[00:17:45]>> Right. Our I think our what would I say in the coalition is that we will at first the first option will be to work out a consensus. If that doesn't of course emerge then we go for direct president. I mean I will support anybody who emerges.

[00:18:06]>> Right. So either a consensus candidate and that's the first option.

[00:18:10]>> Yes. That's the first option as far as the party is concerned. We will aim at consensus. If we don't get it then we go for elections.

[00:18:17]>> Right. That sounds like something that'll be terribly disputatious.

[00:18:21]Um I don't expect we will get to that level because you are dealing with really mature politicians and experienced politicians as well.

[00:18:32]>> But you're also dealing with people with huge political ambitions.

[00:18:36]>> Ambition well that's a different thing all together but we have all agreed that this is the way to to save democracy uh in this country. You you now of course share that political space with figures like PTO, Rabi Quango, Roimichi, Nasir El Rufi, Aminu Tambbor and a host of others. I mean some would say that this is not a partnership. This is a rivalry waiting to happen because if you ask many Nigerians their concern is that this might collapse under the weight of competing ambition. pictures clearly you can see that there is a generational progression there.

[00:19:21]So I mean if people of my generation don't get it the people who may get it next may be the next generation. I mean it clearly you can see a generational structure there and it's deliberate >> right? If it comes down to one ticket, which ultimately it'll come down to, will you step aside for somebody like >> the question of stepping?

[00:19:44]>> No. What what I'm asking I want to ask you a direct question now. If if it comes down to that single ticket, will you step aside for Pobi for example if he's more popular? Yes or no?

[00:19:56]>> I will step aside for any winner.

[00:20:00]>> Right.

[00:20:00]>> Yeah. including Pete Toby?

[00:20:02]>> Of course, if he is a contender, why not?

[00:20:05]>> I mean, he was your vice presidential running mate.

[00:20:09]>> Um, does that make would that make it a bit more difficult for you to accept him coming?

[00:20:16]>> Why what is difficult there is is I don't know politics is either you go through democracy or you go through consensus. So what is there if he emerges through you know consensus or he emerges through uh electoral process >> right? Okay. Well let me talk about something else which is the political power of the north which everybody recognizes is considerable. I mean it's almost the determining factor in any election in Nigeria.

[00:20:50]um your political strength has often been tied to the north but also I mean you're often seen as somebody who has a widespread across Nigeria you know there particularly the the southeast south south and so on but today the north appears more fragmented than ever do you agree with that assessment >> no I think I would rather say the north appears even more united now than fragmented >> well there seem to be many multiple power blocks competing loyalties. I mean the north central region is asserting more of an independence away from the rest of the north.

[00:21:31]>> The north central has always asserted more independence because it used to be the middle belt >> you know. So it from the first republic it has been you know the position of the north central. It has always been a middle belt but it was but in the broader political sense it was always been part of the north. M do you genuinely have the backing of the north?

[00:21:54]Can it still unite behind you or has that political base shifted beyond your control?

[00:22:00]>> No, the north still remains my major political base because I won more northern states than any other states. I went all I won only two in the southwest.

[00:22:14]I don't think I won any in the souththeast and the south south.

[00:22:19]Right. And you're confident that that remains the same even today?

[00:22:24]>> Yes, I am.

[00:22:25]>> Right. I if the North doesn't monically rally behind you as their candidate, does that fundamentally weaken your path to the presidency?

[00:22:37]>> In fact, politically, the North appears much more united now than ever.

[00:22:43]No, but what I'm saying is that if it doesn't monolithically, in other words, if they don't all come together and rally behind you, how much does that weaken your path to the presidency?

[00:22:56]>> The majority of the north will always come together >> and you're the person to bring them together.

[00:23:04]>> That's right.

[00:23:05]>> Why would be the basis for >> because that is my political base.

[00:23:09]>> Yeah, but I mean a lot of other people would argue that if they're politics The south is the political base of Peter Obi >> and South South is the political base of Amitri. Yes.

[00:23:21]>> The reason I say that is that you have so many different elements >> today. I mean in in that northern sort of equation. It's not like it used it's not like under Bhari for example where you had this massive vote that was constantly going to him.

[00:23:39]>> Okay. Can you tell me among the current uh leaders in the north who has more votes than I have?

[00:23:46]>> Well, it depends on who who has been running. I mean, you talked about different tiers of >> so I mean you are talking of figures like Tambal, you are talking like figures like and and others and and also the emerging uh political you know figures. None of them has got that northern block vote as much as I have got.

[00:24:10]>> But they they also people like have the northern strategic vote, don't they?

[00:24:15]>> Can Yes, that's strategic.

[00:24:18]>> Yeah, we consider that to him, >> right?

[00:24:21]>> Yeah. That's why he's a leader in the coalition.

[00:24:25]>> But you don't think that the absence of such a vote would affect you fundamentally? Uh well the absence of it may affect but even his own case you can see how cano is now split >> between himself and his former governor.

[00:24:42]So there is even a split in that.

[00:24:45]Let's turn to the issue of zoning.

[00:24:48]There is a strong argument rooted in Nigeria's informal power rotation that after a northern presidency it is now the turn of the south to lead. So why are you seeking to run in 2027? Are you going against that principle or do you believe zoning no longer matters? No, I think it is an error, a mistake to say that um there is an agreement on issue of zoning in Nigeria. Let me tell you the only political party that has zoning provision in its constitution is the PDP. all the rest don't have.

[00:25:32]So if anything all the other political parties are borrowing or learning from PDP zoning uh formula >> but you agreed with that zoning formula I mean you were the vice president.

[00:25:44]>> I agree I agree with the zoning formula.

[00:25:46]>> So why do you disagree with it now? Wait a moment.

[00:25:50]>> But if you are talking about zoning formula in the PDP and it is north south, the south has govern for 18 years and the north 10. So who is in a deficit if you want to be fair?

[00:26:02]>> Yeah. But is is it is that I mean you >> even and you apply it globally.

[00:26:09]>> Apply it globally.

[00:26:11]I'm telling you the only party that has zoning is it constitution in trench is the PDP the rest don't have right but the principle though of zoning do you agree with it >> I agree with the principle in fact I will even go further let me tell you what happened in uh uh the two of was it uh constitutional conference of Abbacha There was an argument between the late Dr. Alex Au and myself in particular representing the late Shoyad group.

[00:26:56]Dr. Alex Aqu proposed a provision in the constitution for a rotational presidency and I was leading the group and I opposed it and because we control about 60 to 70% of the delegates Dr. Dr. Au's amendment was not through.

[00:27:20]Now in hindsight when I attended the funeral of late Dr. AU I admitted that I made a mistake. I should have supported >> right >> Dr.'s government's amendment and the presidency would have rotated to all the zones in the country.

[00:27:44]>> And I think that is the most equitable provision that could be you know included in the constitution.

[00:27:51]>> Right. Is that something that you would push for if you became president?

[00:27:55]>> Definitely. Yes. Even if it is the only amendment >> right >> I can make I would move towards that.

[00:28:02]But that push will come only if you become president. Because right at this point, you're making an argument about the number of years the North has had and the number of years the South has had. And some would say that that is for your own political convenience.

[00:28:18]>> Not my own political convenience, but for the political stability of the country.

[00:28:24]Because if that amendment, if that provision were there, you would not be having all these arguments now about zoning or no zoning, who is cheated and who is not cheated and so on and so forth because every zone would have had the opportunity to produce a president.

[00:28:40]>> Yes. But but that's >> you will know that even if you produce a you don't produce a president now, you will produce a president in the future.

[00:28:48]But but are you prepared to deal with the possible backlash that would come from this people in this country if they perceive that you're abandoning that zoning which appears to be the way they >> it is not abandoning zoning rather it is entrenching zoning. Well, the way they >> because right now zoning is not in Nigeria's constitution. He's not. And >> no, I understand that. But what I'm saying is that you you running is the greatest if you like testament to your philosophy around zoning because it suggests that you know a lot of people would would say that it's the turn of the south. I mean that's why you know a southern that's why people like PDP have zoned it to the south and so on. I mean >> I am telling you I mean some most of these arguments are you know more you know self-centered I'm giving you the most rational argument there is no party that is zoning in his constitution so if you don't have zoning in your constitution why are you pushing for it >> yeah but it doesn't have to be in the constitution there has to be a principle >> for you it has to for for a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country like Nigeria it has But if there is a consensus within your party for example I mean to say that in the interest of propriety in the interest of justice which you have talked about that perhaps it is time for you know they should let the south finish um the the the two terms and and it'll return to the north you cannot balance the deficit already the north is behind by 8 years.

[00:30:37]So what is the fairness there? What is the balance there?

[00:30:41]>> Yeah. But isn't it isn't it is is there an element of your own political because I mean you have said that after 2027 you're not going to run again. It'll be essentially too late for you to run again.

[00:30:52]>> Well that's that's left to the next generation to take it up.

[00:30:56]>> So there's an element of your own personal ambition in whatever position you take about zoning. Not necessarily.

[00:31:03]Not necessarily.

[00:31:05]It's not anything personal at all.

[00:31:08]>> Right. Okay. Well, let me turn to something else because if you were to get the ticket, um, you will run up against an incumbent with what some say is a formidable political machine. What is your concrete strategy to defeat President Tinibu? Not just politically but structurally.

[00:31:33]>> But why would I sit down and then start discussing about my political strategy at this at this forum? That's a strategy that you're going to have to >> for all what I know is that a coalition candidate facing Bolatinibu Bolatinibu is dead on arrival >> right but those are just I mean it's almost like a slogan isn't >> no it's not it's not a slogan but it's it's a fact I mean look at look at the leadership of the coalition if if each and every one of them will bring their zone you to electoral victory. Where where will Bolah stand?

[00:32:17]>> Right. Well, let let me put it another way since you don't want to share your strategy for for unseating him. What is the one thing President Tinubu is doing today that you would immediately reverse if you became president?

[00:32:35]>> Everything is wrong with President.

[00:32:38]So you'd basically sweep everything aside.

[00:32:42]>> Everything is wrong with President. I mean honestly perhaps in my life this is the worst administration I have seen >> in this country.

[00:32:55]>> Again as I said that's just a that's just a broad term.

[00:32:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. You know I I feel terribly disappointed.

[00:33:04]>> I feel terribly disappointed.

[00:33:06]Are there any specific things that you're disappointed with?

[00:33:13]>> Well, I mean, you know, you can say, okay, maybe we belong to the same age group. Perhaps the only experience he didn't have was he didn't have the federal experience like I had before him. Uh, but I thought he would do better than he is doing at the moment economically.

[00:33:36]uh otherwise I I feel disappointed.

[00:33:39]>> Okay. Well, let let's take one thing that you mentioned there which is the economy. Um everyone agrees that Nigerians are facing severe economic hardship today. If you were in office tomorrow, what is the first decision you would take, let's say, within 30 days that would tangibly improve people's lives if you became president?

[00:34:06]I think uh I believe uh security law and order is basic whatever you want to achieve if you don't have security you don't have law and order I don't think you can implement whatever policy whether uh it is job creation whether it is infrastructure development whether it is healthcare whether whatever you must have a a secure and stable country.

[00:34:38]>> Well, I think most people would agree with that. The question is how would you have a stable and secure country if you were president?

[00:34:46]>> Well, to tackle the issue of law and order, the issue of security and there are many ways you can do that. I mean, it is not uh a topic that you know you begin to to discuss at this level. uh security is a very fundamental and very sensitive issue. Uh let me remind you booh haram started in 2002 when we were in office and the president and I met and decided that we should put it down decisively and we did.

[00:35:29]By the time we left there was no booh haram. Booharam resurface after we left.

[00:35:37]So I think northern Nigeria doesn't have the capacity to do it but it requires a leadership.

[00:35:47]Right. Well, as I'm sure you know for people to I mean you you can't say well I'm going to deal with it decisively.

[00:35:55]That's not enough. If you're running for office, people are going to want to know what you're going to do specifically so that they can compare it to what is already being done and see who is the better um bet.

[00:36:09]First of all, I I believe we don't have enough armed forces personnel well trained and well equipped.

[00:36:22]We don't we have not even if we had invested so much money then the money is being misapplied.

[00:36:30]This is a Nigeria that used to perform credibly at international peacekeeping operations. Anywhere Nigerian troops or forces went to whether they were military men or whether they were police they came back with distinction.

[00:36:48]How come that we can't deal with internal uh insecurity?

[00:36:58]All what it requires is policies that should deal with that. And those policies uh involves more men to be trained, more equipment to be supplied, more welfare for these ar men or military people and so on and so forth and less of the corruption that is also available you know even within the military itself.

[00:37:31]>> Well, you you mentioned the word corruption. Some people have corruption concerns about you which leads to credibility concerns. At least that's the perception and I'm sure you know that perception shapes trust. Why do you think a significant number of Nigerians still question your credibility and what have you done to change that perception?

[00:37:56]>> Well, my my my corruption past only arose through allegations which were not proved. Well, your your former principal was one of the people who >> but he had every opportunity led the charge.

[00:38:08]>> Yes, he he had every opportunity. He set up a panel under the former attorney general Biojo was a member was a member and they came to my office. They said we have uh you know the instructions of Mr. President to probe you. I said, "But do you know I have a constitutional immunity?" They said, "Yes." I said, "Okay, I have decided to wave the immunity." Probe me and they probed me. What did they find?

[00:38:41]Nothing.

[00:38:44]Nothing.

[00:38:46]>> So why why does that perception persist?

[00:38:49]And why do you think >> it's a political issue?

[00:38:51]>> Your principal took it upon himself.

[00:38:54]>> It's a political is a political issue.

[00:38:55]>> Publicize it. is a political issue.

[00:38:59]Simply, I'm saying this for the first time in the public that the president set up a panel to investigate a vice president, his own vice president who has immunity, >> right?

[00:39:14]And but but where does all your money come from? I mean, you're said to be a very wealthy man.

[00:39:22]>> Before I went into politics, I was already in business. I was in oil and gas logistics. I was in agriculture. I was in a number of uh you know economic sectors of the country before I became I virtually set up PDP. I virtually funded it.

[00:39:40]Why was I not being accused of corruption that time?

[00:39:43]>> Right. So you you you're you are a very wealthy man, aren't you?

[00:39:47]>> I wouldn't say a very wealthy man. I'm comfortable. I mean, do you have the kind of wherewithal to go up against the financial arsenal of President Tinubu and the incumbent APC administration?

[00:40:06]>> I don't have the power of the people and there I don't have.

[00:40:14]>> But Nigeria of course as you know is I mean you talked about funding the PDP and all the rest of it. Nigeria is a money bags democracy.

[00:40:22]>> Well, I mean you you believe all the money bags are in APC now. You believe?

[00:40:29]No, there are some that are not in the APC. They don't have sympathy for APC because APC has has even made them poorer, >> right? So, you're not worried about >> No, I'm not worried.

[00:40:41]>> The financial muscle that you can muster?

[00:40:44]>> No, I'm not worried. I'm not worried because um they they are using public money and the public can take the money and and do what they want.

[00:40:55]Now there was there was a time uh Mr. Vice President when restructuring was at the very heart of your political philosophy. You articulated it forcefully. You even published a detailed case for it that many I >> even have your book.

[00:41:11]>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. that many regarded as a blueprint for Nigeria's future. But then in recent years, the urgency seemed to have faded from your messaging, particularly in the 2023 campaign. So let me ask you this directly. Is restructuring still a core conviction for you or has political reality forced you to quietly move on from it?

[00:41:37]>> Um I I have not changed my position on restructuring.

[00:41:41]have not uh it appears you know um political issues you know have also a generational lifespan you know maybe Nigerians don't now feel that restructuring is no more important because of the challenges they are facing insecurity hunger unemployment corruption you know all these things have now come you know really to be the forefront you know of what is worrying Nigerians or the challenges facing Nigerians. They have even forgotten about their freedoms. They have forgotten uh you know about the restructuring and so on and so forth.

[00:42:23]>> Doesn't that intimidate you that the size the colossal size of the problems if you were to be president that you'd have to inherit? No, it doesn't intimidate me because I can identify competent people in this country who can help me overcome all those uh challenges.

[00:42:43]>> And and was it you who picked the people who drove the Obasso administration the obassiku administration?

[00:42:53]I will not say solely but mostly because uh President Obasen just was coming out from jail and I was not a politician and I did most of the politicking.

[00:43:05]Well, a lot of those people in fairness stand out and they were people who had the capacity to take Nigeria from many years of rot under military rule to a completely different what's as I said some people call a golden era. Um, so that suggests a a knack for picking the right people.

[00:43:28]>> I I remember I visited the United States to Europe to head hunt and interview Nigerians.

[00:43:41]The president graciously offered me that opportunity. I did and I brought a number of them back and they proved themselves.

[00:43:52]We're coming to the dying minutes of this very interesting conversation and once again thank you very much for coming in to talk to us about it. But what's your final message to the Nigerian people?

[00:44:11]My final message to the Nigerian people is they should vote out APC if they want their future >> and if they don't uh it's going to be a disaster.

[00:44:31]I don't see the pathway to a brighter future for Nigeria in APC. Certainly not.

[00:44:39]And of course for you that would be the end of the line basically >> as God wills.

[00:44:49]>> Well on on that sort of poignant philosophical note I want to thank you very much indeed Mr. Vice President and thank you for taking the time to come and talk to us. We appreciate it very much.

[00:45:02]>> Thank you very much Charles. I hope it will not be too long before we meet again. I I hope I hope to see you again soon.

[00:45:09]>> I like the last one.

[00:45:10]>> Thank you very much indeed. And Alhaja Tiku Abubaka is the former vice president of Nigeria.