Navy SEAL Hell Week VS NFL Tryouts

[00:00:00]As tough as football is, even at the NFL level physically, coming to Buds was >> Buzz was light years tougher, right? It was a it was a you like and there's moments in football where you have to be acutely tough. Like you you got you got to draw the line and hold it for two, three, four seconds, right? Nothing had demanded the mental toughness that the Buds and the and the and the endurance toughness. Like I I I remember my first condition run. I was telling the story the other day. I just left camp. So left camp can rate the if there's a bad way to go to buds, that's the bad way to go to buds, right? And so I don't think I'd ever run more than three miles in my entire life. And our first conditioning run, I remember I was so far behind that the corman were in the remember we had those turbo turbo diesels back then and the corman was driving next to me and he's like, "Sir, just so you know, we are committing a safety violation right now. you are so far behind that we cannot effectively respond to an emergency with the rest of your class. And I just I just grunted.

[00:00:58]They're like, we like this guy. These guys are I was the goon.

[00:01:01]>> I mean, they told me day one like, "Sir, you're the goon." What that means is no matter where you finish, the goon starts with you.

[00:01:06]>> Yeah.

[00:01:07]>> So, you're going to get gooned every time and then everyone behind you is going to get gooned. So, every once in a while, sprint up to the front and goon the whole class just making but the goon stuff, like you're an athlete. like goon stuff's built for the athlete. Like, you know, carry that tire over there and back. I'm like, I'd do that. I'd rather do that than 8 mile run, right? Yeah, but I'd never really done anything that required that amount of toughness and that variety of toughness for that period of time, you know, and and and I think I was really fortunate because I I think I was I'd had I I think my path to being a good athlete was so long and so uh incremental that I'd had to become tough. Like I just I'm not easily discouraged, right? And I and I think that comes from not be I'm good. I was a good football player because I wasn't good and I didn't quit, right? But I remember just some of the moments like you remember the one the the run the run where we do this big beach run and you just man get to the compound get to the compound and all of us talk about it that one run where you get to the compound and you keep going.

[00:02:12]>> Yeah.

[00:02:13]>> And like half the class just turns and goes left >> and and you know we only run another couple hundred yards because the instructors want the guys who just quit to realize they just quit, right? And uh but I'd never done anything that required that amount of kind of consistent toughness and just like >> toughness across the whole domain of humanity, right? Like mental toughness, physical toughness, endurance toughness.

[00:02:36]Like just tough.

[00:02:38]>> Other than running, were there other aspects of training that you were kind of on the bubble of being able to pass?

[00:02:44]>> Anything that was cardiocentric?

[00:02:46]Cardiocentric, which is a lot of what we do. I mean, uh I was the 58 wonder on all the runs. I could swim, but I couldn't swim, you know, like Orna and Tippens and some of these other guys, right? Like, but I I, you know, I could I I was better at swimming than I was at running. Any of the athletic stuff like log PT, like that was it wasn't a break for me, but it was better than the other stuff, right?

[00:03:09]>> What about the O course?

[00:03:10]>> O course, my O course. The first time I did the O course, it O course is very technique driven, right? And I didn't know I didn't know how to use my feet on the rope climbs and stuff. So I'm just musling up, you know, the ropes and but I remember I remember Ryan Angold first time the O course is kind of alphabetical. You have angled, you have Bruce and Ryan Engles, I think the first time he ever ran the O course, he was like a minute off the alltime record and the instructor's trying to look at me and I was like instructor, I feel compelled to just prepare you for the difference here. And I think I ran that first show course. I couldn't turn my ankles in because I'd had an ankle injury. So the spiderwall, I kept falling off the spiderwall and then I kept like jumping off and trying to hit an instructor, but then I figured it out. Went over there in a weekend and figured it out and you know the oak course. I mean I was a I could do that once I figured out the system. You know I was a six minute guy six somewhere in that six seven minute time frame and >> which that's impressive moving that amount of mass.

[00:04:11]>> I mean that's football though. Football is a anything that's kind of dynamic or explosive kind of fast twitch. I was built for that. Like I was advantaged for that. any of the, you know, I graduated Buzz. I think I was probably the world's biggest triathlete, right?

[00:04:23]Like, you know, so it's just a different kind of athleticism.

[00:04:27]>> Yeah. Um, drown proofing, pool camping.

[00:04:29]>> I was real comfortable in the water. I kind of grew up around lakes and and stuff like that and and uh and and um so I I mean, I would tell you pool comp the hardest part of pool comp for me was treading water because I could not figure out how to egg beater. Did you ever figure out how to egg beater kid?

[00:04:48]>> Yeah, man. grew up swimming competitively. So, >> I I had one of the UCLA water polo players try to teach me how to egg bait her and he was like, "Hey man, I don't know what to tell you. You're doing it right, but you're still like you're getting negative propulsion. Like, I don't know what to tell you." So, I couldn't. So, I had to the So, I I you know, I I had to duck kick the whole time, man. So, I'll tell you a funny story. Um >> uh Chabi, you know, Chaby. So going through pool comp and uh this is my third time to do the tread and water thing.

[00:05:21]And so I get in there and I'd passed everything else first time every time on pool comp, right? So doing the tread and water and I could see all the instructors kind of like they're like, "Hey, do this, do this." All I mean, you know, once you instructors can be cool if they know you're trying, right? And and I they were kind of laughing and I was like, "Why are you laughing?" I look up and Chab had hung a sandwich.

[00:05:43]He had a sandwich on a fishing pole standing on the high dive. He was like Vincent Bruce and I looked up and I saw that sandwich over like maybe this will keep you up and I inhaled a huge thing of water like shot to the bottom.

[00:05:57]Finally got my way back up. It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

[00:06:01]And I'm I'm pretty convinced I made the pool comp time the treadm. But I also think they're like, man, if if he dies, that's on us, right? And uh that was that might have been the hardest that was the hardest thing for me. But everything else was um that's the thing like I tell people like be tough like conviction. If you have a conviction like who cares how hard it is and if we're being honest there's a dark part of us that likes being better than other people >> for sure.

[00:06:27]>> Yeah. I mean there's a huge >> watching some dude quit and knowing you lasted a little bit longer and there's no malice towards the dude, right? And um but I was kind of that rocky under like I like I like >> it. It's interesting the there seems to be kind of one of two types of people in that way. you know, for for some people >> I think it it actually makes them consider quitting, you know, and then for some and and I fall into that that other category, especially because when I showed up and I was >> 5'11, 145 pounds, you know, and uh seeing guys like you and I was just like, who the [ __ ] am I >> standing?

[00:07:06]>> And then we start running, you're like, >> well, but just seeing guys that I that when I saw them, I was like, man, that like I'm out of my league here. And then they quit and you're like, holy [ __ ] Yeah, >> maybe I'm not, you know, and it was for me it was a huge ego boost.

[00:07:21]>> I loved it. I I love I love I love winding up every day >> and I I want to use the right words here. Not I don't I I don't I don't like ending every day thinking I'm better than somebody else. I do like ending the day knowing I wanted something more.

[00:07:36]>> Yeah.

[00:07:37]>> Like I like I just wanted more. That's what I love about football. Paul was, you know, I have 76 chances to there's a guy line of go for me saying he wants it more than me and I got 75 chances to prove him wrong. And like I I would talk to guys that I played against and they're like, "You're the meanest guy I ever played against."

[00:07:55]I'm like, "I didn't I didn't They're like, "You hated me. I didn't hate you.

[00:07:58]You're just in the way."

[00:07:59]>> And there's a place these guys I love said we're going to go and you were in the way. And being away feels like hate sometimes, but that's not what it was. I just love these guys that much, right?

[00:08:07]and and uh but yeah, I mean I I I it's funny to say I loved it and and you know Hillweek Hill's one of the funniest things you've ever seen, right? And and uh um Hillweek I think for me Hillweek might have been one of the easier things because Hillweek was just about being tough.

[00:08:25]You're not making times, you're not making runs, you're not making swims.

[00:08:28]Like Hillweek's just like, "Hey, do you mean what you say?" And that might have been my superpower is just like, >> you know, I mean, I can run as slow as I I can run slow, just don't stop. Like I do that. That's my whole life. That's my We're in my We're in my granny gear right now.

[00:08:44]>> Yeah. No doubt. Um would you say that uh like the the NFL experience that you had helped in Buds?

[00:08:54]>> I Here's why I think it would. I I think it would because I knew what it was. So there was no grass is greener on the other side thing. Like it's not that it lost its appeal at all to me. I just knew what it was and I knew what it wasn't. And I think sometimes guys will quit because they think this other thing that they're not doing might be better.

[00:09:15]And I just never had that. You know, I was fortunate that I was like, "Okay, I know what it is. I know what it isn't. I know what I know what how it won't fill my soul." So I didn't it wasn't any kind of distraction or uh alternative. So I think it was good for me in the sense that um I it it wasn't an option, >> right? Uh what do you think breaks most people who quit in butts?

[00:09:42]>> That's a great question.

[00:09:44]I I think one thing that breaks a lot of people is if they're doing it for anybody else but themselves. Like if you if you're trying to prove yourself worthy of somebody else who's not there, like you you just, you know, I think we're all trying to prove something.

[00:09:59]Prove someone right, prove someone wrong, but you got to be there because you want to be there. Like this has got to be the dragon you want to slay. And I I think going there for the wrong reasons, uh you just won't make it.

[00:10:10]>> Yeah. I I don't I don't disagree at all.

[00:10:12]I mean, one of the really um I'd say humbling and and special experiences I got to have was being an instructor afterwards.

[00:10:21]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:10:21]>> And seeing >> behind the curtain and I'm sure. Yeah.

[00:10:25]>> Kind of similar just like going through, you know, >> there were always guys that are like, "Well, this guy's going to make it and then he doesn't, you know, and other guys are like, there's no [ __ ] way this guy >> and then graduation day >> and the fire in the gut guys like none of us none of us are." You know, one of the things I always marvel at you guys too, like you were what, 18 when you went in, >> man. I would look at you guys and like there is no way I was that mature when I was 18.

[00:10:47]>> I was like, I did not have the maturity and intensity. I was I was so proud of and not a little bit jealous of kind of the intensity and maturity that that I saw you young guys cuz I was 24, 23, 24, right? And I was like, man, I was looking at y'all going like, that's unbelievable that these guys came here with this kind of maturity and resolve.

[00:11:09]Well, for me, I, you know, I I I think I there was a certain level of maturity maybe that was above average, but honestly, I think my biggest um augment or or help making it through training was kind of the naive.

[00:11:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. If ignorance is bliss, I'm gonna have this guy around. Yeah, I mean I I grew up in the same house my entire life, the same bedroom basically, you know. And >> so this is your first big adventure.

[00:11:33]>> Yeah. And like my parents dropped me off at Adventure Man for the Navy. And so it was like I I didn't really have much to compare it to. I knew it would be hard.

[00:11:42]>> I'd spent most of high school, you know, researching to the best of my ability.

[00:11:46]This is, you know, pre- internet for the most part.

[00:11:49]>> There wasn't anything, you know, there were a few books to read. There were some workout tapes by like CJ >> Karach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember those. Absolutely.

[00:11:56]>> You know, but that was it, you know, and so it was like >> I just that's what I wanted to do and and there wasn't much else to it, you know, there wasn't this huge like kind of swirling of of ideas and thinking, well, maybe this is better or not. It was like I can look out past the surf zone and see, you know, this big Navy ship sitting out there. I know I sure as [ __ ] don't want underway. Like I don't want to do that.

[00:12:20]>> Yeah. I know I don't want to be on that.

[00:12:22]Um, so you know, I yeah, I I I think it that was kind of the the crux of it is I just was kind of naive to to what else even existed, you know, but >> when you were an instructor, what did you if you had to give like really three reasons someone doesn't make it. What would those three be from an instructor's perspective? I mean, from the instructor perspective, it's tough because you you see so many kids go through and you get to know some of them obviously better than others. But >> I would say to your point is spot on is the, you know, if you're there for any reason, you know, if you're there because you want to say you did it, >> right?

[00:12:57]>> You know, or because you're want to be a seal or do you want to do what Seals do?

[00:13:01]The guys just want to be seals, they're not gonna make it. You got to want to do what Seals do.

[00:13:04]>> Um, and and maybe as simple as it sounds, just the cold. Yeah. Um, you know, I mean that that >> it's a different animal there.

[00:13:12]>> I mean, it really is, you know, and and it's not that it's extreme cold, it's the exposure to it. Yeah. That you just it's like you can't ever get away from it, you know, and >> it always gets worse during hell week is.

[00:13:23]>> Yeah. And I think the last thing that I I think you know the the the rarity for especially young men at that age and their inability to compartmentalize and evolution at a time or one step you know it's they're looking at h >> how long is this training when when are we supposed to graduate? It's from now you know and not being able to stay present right >> and just worry about what you're doing right now.

[00:13:47]I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but I I you know, I talk to young guys that are going through their various selection pipelines and you know the the guys that are about to go to hell week. I go, "Hey, man. I could tell you exactly what's going to happen and you still got to do it right." I said, "But I'll tell you one thing. If you're thinking about Friday on Sunday, you're not going to make it."

[00:14:04]>> Yeah.

[00:14:04]>> This is too far. And on on Sunday, you think about midnight. Midnight you think about morning, you just go to the next thing. Right. I always I always tell my daughters, if you got to swim the ocean, just swim as far as you can see. Yeah.

[00:14:14]>> Because you think about swimming the oceans too much. Like you and I have both been underway. Like ocean's a big place, right?

[00:14:20]>> Yeah. And I think, you know, for me the and I don't know if I if somebody mentioned it or if I it just kind of made sense, but I found myself at least in training >> just worrying about the next meal. You know, it's like just get to breakfast, just get to lunch, just get to dinner, you know, whatever. and you know or the shift change, you know, it's like breaking it up into very small blocks and just worry about >> and and you you Iowa boys know cold like you know cold like you like you know >> Yeah. I mean I you know I remember playing pond hockey growing up and falling through the ice and having to walk home, you know, like >> uh almost freezing if I end up, you know, on the way home. And >> do you do you feel like that kind of Midwest Iowa kind of stoicism?

[00:15:03]Hey, no one's a victim. Just work harder. That had to advantage you both both then and and and since.

[00:15:10]>> For sure it does. Yeah. I mean, you know, and there was I've mentioned this on a few few of my own episodes and even in the book and whatever, but there was there, you know, the way of life is one thing. The elements are tough. It does get pretty hot in the summer. It gets really cold in the winter.

[00:15:26]>> And just the way of life there is is tougher, I think, than it is in most places.

[00:15:30]>> Yeah. But um you know I had an incident as a freshman. I was really small. I was 5'4, 105 pounds and I got jumped my my freshman year and >> it just got the absolute [ __ ] beat out of me. And um I actually had this conversation with my dad the last time I was home because he barely remembers he remembers it happening. But the conversation we had after kind of >> reminiscent to what you shared about your father on his deathbed is it was one of the most impactful probably the most impactful conversation I've had in my life. And >> you know, I went home and I was scared to death to go back to school. And and you know, like my face was all swollen on one side and all bloodied up and messed up on the other. And >> you know, when I told him what happened, I I completely assumed I I took for granted like from a sense of entitlement standpoint, he is for sure going to go there.

[00:16:18]>> Yeah.

[00:16:19]>> Start cracking skulls and make something happen and whatever. And and he didn't.

[00:16:24]>> And not because my dad is not that kind of guy. I mean, he he wrestled with Dan Gable in high school and and you know, trained with him prepping for the 72 Olympics. Like, he was a division one college wrestler.

[00:16:35]>> You know, he's bigger than I am. He's he's still like we still tussle and wrestle.

[00:16:38]>> Wrestles are different animals, man.

[00:16:40]>> Yeah. And uh but you know, he he said something very very uh poignant that stuck with me and and was very pivotal.

[00:16:47]You know, he was like a as a man, you know, there's going to be times in your life where you want and need to depend on somebody and nobody is going to be there for you.

[00:16:58]>> You have to be able to figure out how to face being scared of whatever you're scared of and figure out how to get through it on your own.

[00:17:05]>> Yeah.

[00:17:06]>> And at the time I was like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? You know, cuz again, I'm 14.

[00:17:10]>> There's five of them. There was 40 of them.

[00:17:12]>> Yeah.

[00:17:12]>> Um, you know, and so I was just like, holy [ __ ] Okay, I guess I gotta figure this out. And so, even though being terrified, I went to school and and faced it and figured it out and and uh just got through it, you know, but >> uh that one piece of advice was such a turning point in my life that um that that made everything different and and I and I think back to your question is that >> that region of the country because of the elements and because it's, you know, largely a farming community, very industrial >> and the 90s were a a hard season. It was a hard season for the agriculture.

[00:17:47]>> Well, and you know, in Iowa, John Deere is the biggest, you know, I mean, that's both my parents worked for him for decades and >> and uh it's just a very bluecollar, but in a >> I think a lot of times you hear that in a negative way.

[00:18:00]>> No, but you know, there was >> I think such a simplicity and and such a communitydriven feeling to the the town I grew up in.

[00:18:10]I think you >> you felt like you were on the same team, you know, and and it was you it was the community against everything else, you know, and >> and I think that that's one of the biggest >> and and most detrimental things that's lacking in society across the country now is that feeling of community.

[00:18:30]>> Yeah. Yeah. Unity and toughness, right?

[00:18:31]And >> and I think it's even physiological, right? Like I think I think there's there's parts of the younger generations uh because knowledge is so accessible like you and I you know encyclopedia bratannica you got to write a report you know so and so there's no it's not a character flaw that these muscles haven't been >> developed but but you know like I I I think the greatest thing that happened to us in the 80s is we it was everything's hard and so you just when it's hard it doesn't shock you. You're just like, "Oh, it's supposed to be hard." Right.

[00:19:08]>> Well, I think the other thing too is like most kids from that era were latch key kids.

[00:19:13]>> Mhm.

[00:19:14]>> And I I think the the biggest uh outcome that a lot of kids today don't get because it's not the same way is learning consequences on your own. You know, and there's a parallel with dog training there is that >> you know, you manipulate the training environment >> to set the dog up so that he'll make the decision that you either want and it gets it gets rewarded or reinforced and so it's likely to occur again, i.e. the training or shaping of behavior. But there's also if there's a negative consequence, then the dog learns not to do certain things, you know, and so >> as a last key kid in the 80s and early 90s, you know, >> you're going out and riding your bikes through construction zones and figuring out, well, that was a [ __ ] dumb idea, you know, instead of your parents telling you you probably shouldn't do this, you learn the hard way, you know, and and that rarely exists nowadays.

[00:20:05]>> And we're better for it. Like, we really are, right? You know, we got the scars for it. And and I've always taught my daughters like easy now, hard later, hard now, easy later. That's the only way of it.

[00:20:17]>> Yeah.

[00:20:18]>> So, whatever you choose easier now, it's going to be hard later. But if you choose hard now, the hard stuff is easier later.

[00:20:25]>> Yeah. I mean, to me, like I love the, you know, choose your hard, it's going to be hard either way, you know, so >> pick which one you want. You know, it might as well be beneficial.

[00:20:33]>> That's right. That's right.

[00:20:35]>> All right. So, you make it through Buds.

[00:20:36]Uh, where did the the going back to the Saints for a brief time, where did that fall into your career timeline?

[00:20:42]>> It was right when I checked in the butts. This is pre 911. Pre 911. It was 98, so the 98 season. And and Al Richards was running the community at the time and and the goat locker at five was like, you know, the Saints called like, "Hey, we'd like for you to come try out." And the Goat Locker 5 was like, "Get us tickets. Don't embarrass the community." Right. And Admiral Richards was running the community at the time. and and and they thought like from a recruiting perspective it could be good and and there you know the reserve side of the teams was was was trying to was building an identity then and trying to figure out how to be relevant and not just you know come in when the guys want time off right so you know went up there for that and then um you know it was just easy to come back man just it was