The Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 was a state-sponsored domestic terrorism attack that burned 1,550 homes and businesses, made over 8,000 people homeless, and caused over 3,000 people to disappear. Full reparations requires five components: acknowledgment, apology, restitution, compensation, and policy changes to prevent future harm. The speaker, attorney Damario Solomon-Simmons, shares his journey from a troubled youth to fighting for justice, emphasizing that reparations are not charity but payment for a debt owed, and that the American court system often serves as an obstacle to redemption rather than a tool for justice.
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West Wednesday - Rev. Dr. Frederick D. Haynes, III & Damario Solomon-SimmonsAdded:
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Christian West Baptist Church.
Come experience.
>> Come experience the love for yourself.
>> Praise the Lord everybody. Come on. If you're in the sanctuary tonight, you came for a book discussion, but we're also in the house of the Lord. So, I'm going to try it one more time. Praise the Lord, everybody.
Come on. Let the redeemed of the Lord say indeed say so. On behalf of Dr. Haynes and the entire family of faith known as Friendship West, we bring you greetings on this night, uh, a very special West Wednesday as we look at the book, uh, to redeem a nation, to redeem a nation by Deario Solomon Simmons, our pastor's great friend and a brother who is, amen, on the battlefield doing the work of justice in these last and evil days. Dr. Haynes is in the building.
They're going to have an amazing and robust conversation that we believe is going to be a blessing. Watch this. A conversation that is timely, a conversation that is relevant for the times that we indeed live. Listen, in the midst of the civil rights movement, I believe after the Birmingham campaign, uh Dr. King and his lieutenants were asked what was the point of their mission? Why were they mobilizing, marching, organizing, going to jail, suffering? What was the intent and the purpose of this work? Dr. King and Andy Young and CT Vivian and Amen so many others. Hosea Williams, James Beville, amen, James Orange. They concluded Dorothy Cotton. Amen. They concluded that their work was to redeem the soul of America.
And in these last and evil days, amen, with all that is going on from the Supreme Court to state legislatures, Amen, in the councils of our city governments, we are witnessing the rise of a pernitiousness.
>> Yeah.
>> That we must, Amen. not only defeat at the level of the ballot box, but that we must defeat at the level of spirit. Paul says it this way, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and the rulers of darkness of this world." So, as we come tonight, I'm excited. Our praise and worship ministry is in the building.
They're going to, amen, set the atmosphere for what I believe is going to be a robust conversation and a needed conversation. If you're watching us online, God bless you. We thank God for you. You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're right here with us.
Before we get started, you already know what I'm getting ready to ask you to do.
If you're in the online audience, hit that like button. Hit that like button.
Help us raise the algorithm. Amen. Hit that share button because somebody somewhere needs this study, this conversation here tonight as we get started and prepared to go higher in the Lord. Amen. And in discourse, I'm getting ready to pray. Our ministry of worship and arts is going to sing and we just going to do let the Lord do. Amen.
What the Lord wants to do. Settle yourself wherever you are across the sanctuary, even in the digital sanctuary, in the digital sphere. settle your spirit as we go to God in prayer.
Father, we thank you.
We thank you that we have the power to redeem the nation.
The power is in our vote.
The power is in our voice.
The power is in our sacrifice.
And we thank you for those who have gone before us. The ancestors and the elders who did not sacrifice in vain.
Some who shed blood.
Many who shed tears and sweat equity so that we could sit as CEOs of Fortune 500 companies so that we might sit as judges and magistrates and might sit as leaders of churches. We thank you, oh God, tonight that we are reminded from our seats of privilege and power of the great responsibility that rests upon our shoulders to do the work of making freedom come alive in our time.
We're grateful, oh God. We're grateful that we don't have to read about civil rights history, but you're going to give us an opportunity to live it out in real time.
So help us to put on the whole armor of God that we might be able to stand against the ws of the wicked one. We bless you and we thank you tonight for those who are watching this who are going to be inspired and encouraged to do something beyond what they've done ordinarily. For those who are going to register to vote because of what they will hear tonight. For those who will register folks in their family because of what will be discussed. for those who will say, "I want to connect with a civic organization or I want to be a part of the gamechanging Christian ministry that is known as Friendship West. I want a higher level of engagement. I want to ready my hands. I want to ready my feet. I want to ready my heart, my mind, my spirit so that I might be a yielded vessel in the hands of God. Make us worthy instruments so that we might make the kingdom come so that we might make your will done on earth as it is in heaven. Bless those who are here tonight. Bless those who are in the digital sphere. Cross the divide through the power of your holy spirit. We give you permission to rule and to reign as God for us tonight and to you for you to have the increase and the glory and the honor. hear us tonight in the name of Jesus through the Holy Spirit and according to your word we pray and together we say amen.
>> Amen. Amen. Good evening. Good evening.
This is the day and the night that the Lord has made. Would you rejoice and be glad in it? Let's go ahead and give God a great big thank you with the clapping of our hands. Would you stand to your feet? We're going to create a nice atmosphere of praise and worship.
It's so good to see y'all. Come on in the building. Let's start by clapping our hands right here.
Hey, like the do in the morning gently rest upon my heart.
Like the dew in the morning, gently rest upon my heart.
Can you sing that? Like a de in the morning. Gently rest.
>> Gently rest upon my heart.
Hey, say like the dw in the morning.
>> This is our prayer.
>> Gently rest upon my heart.
>> Let's do that again. Oh, I like the like in the morning. Gently rest. Gently rest upon my heart.
>> This is our prayer to you, Lord. Like the new morning, >> gently rest, >> gently.
>> I see you climbing and swaying. Let's go to the next part. Oh, we say Jesus.
>> We say rest.
>> We say rest >> like the new.
>> Like the new. Come on.
>> Say Jesus.
>> Say rest.
>> Rest Jesus.
>> Say rest.
>> Oh rest like the dew.
>> Like the de in the morning.
>> Say gently rest.
>> Gently rest upon my heart.
Like the dew. Lord we need you like the do the morning. Gently rise upon my heart.
>> I hear you singing. Let's do it again.
Like the dew in the morning.
>> Lord, gently rest.
>> Gently rest upon my heart.
>> Lord, we need your joy. Lord, we need your peace like the Don.
Gently rest, >> gently rest upon my heart.
>> We say rest Jesus.
>> Oh, rest >> Jesus.
>> Lord, rest. Come on.
>> Say like the new >> like the new in the morning.
>> Say rest Jesus.
>> Say Jesus. Say rest.
>> Oh rest.
>> This is our prayer. Listen like the two.
Tell somebody. May he rest upon your heart.
>> May he rest upon your heart.
>> I hope your burdens are lifted. I hope your burdens are light. My God >> in the morning. May he rest upon your heart.
>> Somebody might have come in here sad.
Can we say that to somebody? Say, "Like the do."
>> Tell them. Say, "Make the Lord rest on your heart.
>> I wish you joy and peace. I wish you love and serenity like the view.
>> May he rest upon >> rest upon your heart." Oh, we say >> praise Jesus.
>> Rise.
>> We say Jesus >> like the Duke.
>> Like the Duke in the We say Jesus.
>> Lord, rest.
>> Have your way, Lord.
>> Like the D.
>> Like the D. Lord we say right Jesus >> have your way Jesus >> make way.
>> Say like the new >> like the new say Jesus.
>> Lord Jes like the do in the Lord we need you to move.
Lord move.
Say move.
>> Say move.
>> Lord. Move in this place.
>> Lord. Move in our hearts.
>> Jesus.
>> Lord. Move.
>> Jesus.
>> So move >> and we'll say yes to >> yes to your will. Yes, >> Lord. Yes to your will.
>> Oh yes.
We say yes.
>> We say yes.
>> We say yes.
>> Oh yeah.
>> And like the dew.
>> Like the dew.
>> Are y'all singing with us? Gently rest upon your heart.
>> Oh, like the morning.
>> Gently rest. deliver my heart.
>> Oh, we say rest.
>> Say rest.
>> Say rest.
>> Say rest.
>> We say rain.
>> Jesus.
>> Say rain.
>> We say rain.
>> Lord, we want you to rain. And we need you to move.
Come on and move in this place. We need you to break every heart.
Make a way. Let your shine of glory move. Let your spirit move in this place. We need you to move. If we ever needed you before, Lord, we should need you now. If we ever needed you before, son, we sure need you now. And we'll say >> yeah.
>> Oh yeah. Here we go. And we'll say rain.
Say yes. Say rain. Say rule. Say move.
Say yes. Stay right, Lord. Move, Lord.
Rule. We'll say yes. We'll say yes.
We'll say yes. We'll say yes. We'll say yes. We'll say yes. We'll say yes. We'll say yes. We'll say yes. And we'll go in a long way. We'll say yes. Say yes.
Oh yes. Oh yeah.
Yes. Oh yes. Lord yes we say rain we bow in your presence you're worthy to rain they move the do the Morning.
>> Gently rest.
>> Gently rest the morning.
>> If you came in a little sad, I hope you feel that the Lord has rested on you like the morning.
>> Gently rest.
>> Gently rest upon my heart.
>> Pray to the Lord. Say, "Gently rest, gently rest upon my heart."
>> This is our prayer. Lord, restly rest upon my heart.
Oh, rest upon my heart.
Hallelujah.
Would y'all give it up for our wonderful praise team? They blessed us tremendously and I really appreciate this. I want to say a special word of thanks uh to our church for uh making uh an adjustment. Uh this is the annual rights of passage uh evening for our kids who are making that wonderful transition into adulthood. And so you have another crowd uh in another part of the facility. And I just shared that they're going to come over uh as soon as they are done cuz I'm going to gift our graduates this wonderful book right here, Redeem a Nation. And so, uh, I'm super excited about that. So, when you see them coming in, uh, you know, give them some love, okay? When you see them coming in, because I'm really proud of them and we're excited about this. I got to tell y'all, uh, tonight means so much to me. Uh, because this brother, he's just a bad dude. Uh, and I'm almost fanning out. Uh, because matter of fact, I am. Uh, because I first, if I'm remembering correctly, I heard him on Lorie Daniel Favor's show, her her nationally syndicated show. and uh he of course is the attorney of record uh for the survivors now survivor of the uh Tulsa race massacre. Uh and this brother was like just fighting uh no is fighting and then got to know more and more about what he's doing with Creek Nation and uh against overwhelming odds he is on the front lines using his brain power his gifts to fight for justice. I don't know how he does it continuously uh because it's like he's everywhere and he does it with excellence. Uh he is brilliant, bold and bad. Uh, every time I hear him speak, uh, and please forgive me for this, I have I'm triggered by Isaac Hayes speaking of Shaft. And I just want to say that Deario is a bad mother. Shut your mouth. I'm talking about Deario. And so, uh, I'm really happy that he's here with us tonight. He has a powerful book out. I have not finished it yet, uh, but it is a page turner. uh redeem a nation, the centurylong battle to restore the soul of America. His take on restoring the soul of a nation that ain't had one uh is quite powerful. And so, uh, I just want us tonight to know that we got someone who is fighting for us, uh, relentlessly, courageously, competently, with excellence, trying to make this nation, as Dr. King said, be true to what it said on paper. And so, I want you all now to receive this bold bad brother. I'm talking about my brother from another mother, the one and only attorney Deario Solomon Simmons.
Thank you. Thank you. Have a seat. Have a seat. So, uh, Deario tripped me out because he was just getting all hyped about the fact that coming to Dallas means something to him. And then I saw him have a family reunion. He and his wife had a family reunion. They She's still hugging. And uh so man, talk to us about Dallas in your life and then we'll jump into this book.
>> Absolutely. First of all, I'm just excited to be here to be here with you.
I'm fanning out on you. This brother's a bad brother, too. Give it up for Reverend Freddy Hayes.
>> Bless you.
and to look out here and see family members, classmates from high school, college classmates, frat brothers, it is just an amazing thing to be here. And as I talk about in the book, we talked about a little bit more, Dallas means a lot in my life. I came down here every summer from 7th to 12th grade. I could always be two years older than I was at home, get into all type of mischief.
And that's true.
And you know, I had some struggles in high school. My classmates know that. I I barely graduated out of high school. I made a C in driver's ed, and that was only because the coaches like me. I I found out I was actually graduating or I was in line to walk across the stage.
That's how crazy it was. I tore my ACL my last game at uh at Bookan High School and I had my grades were not that great.
I got arrested and got in some trouble and so I went to a smaller school in in uh Oklahoma and I got real disgruntled about that and I end up dropping out of school and coming back to Tulsa and then I got injured while I was trying to work out and so I had this great idea and my cousin sitting over here cuz I used to sell air fresheners.
I was a door to door air I don't know if they still do it like this anymore but back in the day you go to the the barber shop or the hair salon and people said I was the air freshener guy so I know all about so anyway I end up saying you know what I ain't bump school bump football I'm about to go be a millionaire selling air fresheners I'm going to move to Dallas and I'm gonna talk my my girlfriend who's now my wife give it up for my wife Mia Fleming she's a she's a trooper I talk her to dropping out of school and we moved down here in Dallas and we're going to be rich and we didn't get rich, we got broke and I was all up in Keith Bazaar and I mean uh uh Big T's bazaar and Keith's Park and Wheatland and Camp Wisdom selling air fresheners and in 1996 I we had wrecked our car.
This is true. This is >> I'm sure you sold me some.
>> You probably did. Hey, I would be right out there next to the D boys selling cents.
In 1996, it's October. Now, growing up, my first word in life was football. It was not mama, it was not daddy, football. That was the thing I wanted to do more than anything was to be a football player.
>> And you know, you growing up, you living that life. You know, we're growing up 80 90s, you know, so this is the height of the crack epidemic, gang epidemic. We kind of living this crazy life trying to do crazy stuff. So going to play football, going to OU was my number one thing in my life and I had a track. I would go I would go I see some of my cousins coming here. I would go from Carver to Booger Carver Middle School to Book High School to U play football. The reason I tell you that is because U versus Texas is a big deal.
>> Big deal.
>> That's like a holiday, >> right? But I was so out of my mind down here selling scents that I had forgotten all about U Texas. And I'm over in South Dallas at a place called Graham Barberhop. Anybody remember Graham Barber Shops? Yeah. That was one of my favorite locations. I made a lot of money in Graham. And I'm walking around, if you know South Dallas, that's a black area. At least it was 30 years ago.
>> And I'm seeing all these white folks walking around with U jerseys. I'm like, what the hell is what the heck is going on? Excuse the pastor.
And I realized, oh man, U Texas is going on right up the street cuz a cotton ball's right up the street, >> right?
>> I go inside of the barber shop and they have a TV on. And on the TV is my homeboy from North Tulsa, my my cl my teammate at Booerte, a guy by the name of Dean Parker, who was one of the best college running backs in the history of the game. He's run up and down the field. And so it hit me right then. I said, "What the hell is going on?" My homeboy is up there running up and down the field on TV in U Texas. I'm in my Can I just My ASS is in here selling air fresheners, living in an apartment with roaches. And see, we grew up low income, but we didn't grow up with roaches. You know, especially my wife, bless her heart, she's middle class. She certainly this wasn't a life for her. I call her my semester in life. But that that experience, I wrecked my car.
>> We we had to come back home um defeated.
We didn't want to come back home cuz our parents didn't want us to leave, but we had to come back home. It was very humbling. But over those next seven years, that's when I earned my associates, my bachelor's, my masters, and my law degree. Went to Africa twice, went studied at Oxford in England. It's like that semester of life put me on this path that I'm sitting here talking to you today.
>> Wow. Wow. Well, we glad. That's quite a journey.
quite a journey. And when you said Graham Barber Shop, I just had too many flashbacks. But uh >> they used to have a barber college.
>> Yeah. I mean, for real.
>> I'm tell I understand this out of town.
>> Have y'all seen the book yet or read the book yet? Anybody seen read? Okay.
Please, please. Redeem redeem a nation.
And it's very interesting. You use a lot of spiritual language uh in in the book, but also in the title, Redeem, Rescue a Nation, the century long battle to restore the soul of America. If I remember correctly, you didn't even know about the Tulsa race massacre until your junior year in college. Is that right?
>> That's right.
>> Junior year in college. How we how how are we going to restore a wound in a nation that's always trying to erase the memory, >> right? You know, and that's what you before you can even deal with anything, everybody knows this, you got to be able to identify what the issue is. Come on.
Right? And so part of this work that I've been a part of now for almost 30 years is to call out what's actually happening in a very clear manner and then provide answers or at least options to try to fix it. And so when you talk about us growing up, those of us who are from North Tulsa, who how many people from North Tulsa in here? Oh, we got a lot of North Tulsa down here at DFW area. You know, I grew up in North Tulsa. I went to middle George Washington Carver Middle School on George on Greenwood Avenue and we didn't learn about the massacre and didn't know anything about it. And so >> in Tulsa >> on Greenwood >> on Greenwood. Now I told you I wasn't the best student. So maybe if they did teach about it that day, I wasn't in there. But >> no, but seriously, I know too many people from Tulsa and Oklahoma City who said they had never heard of it, especially as 2021 came to >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it >> it was a 75 year conspiracy of silence.
So meaning that the city and the state and the county who perpetrated the massacre and to be clear, this was a state sponsored domestic terrorism attack. It was the greatest domestic terrorism attack in the history of this country. We're talking about 1550 homes and businesses burnt to the ground. Over 8,000 people made homeless overnight.
Over 3,000 people disappeared. And I really want you to understand when I say disappeared. What I mean is on May 30th, your neighbor was across the street and on May 31st his house or her house was burnt to the ground and you didn't see that person again. You don't know if they burnt up in the home. You don't know if they got killed and thrown in the Arkansas River. You don't know if they're in one of these mass graves that they denied actually existed. But as we speak today, they're digging these mass graves up with bullet holes in them. I say all that to say is this was a very very traumatic event that happened not it was not something just spontaneous and boom it was over with. This was over a 36-hour period of time where bombs were dropped from air on black people where people were murdered, people were hacked to death, people were strangled to death, people were burnt to death, people were shot to death, people were drowned to death, people had everything that they ever known stripped and stolen from them. And so that was real trauma for black people that black people didn't want to talk about this for the fear of retribution. You're talking about the very people that perpetrated this harm. They just went on with their very day continually living right next door in Tulsa. So black people didn't talk about this because we were they were afraid. And white people wanted to wipe this away like it never happened.
And they were very successful for almost over 75 years, >> right?
>> 75 years. So a person like me would know about it until I go to University of Oklahoma. I'm sitting in intro to African African-American studies class.
My professor was a a great guy named Dr. Keer Nurra Kim Maretta. He's about 6'5, 330 lbs. He had long locks down the back of his by his back and his head was shaved on the side with like a mohawk.
This is a very intimidating individual.
And he had a big booming James Earl Jones voice. And one day in class, you know, I'm playing I'm an athlete. I'm trying to chill. And he's talking about Tulsa and the massacre and these black people were rich and all these I'm >> I'm like, man, that's not true. I'm sitting back there. I'm like, man, I really don't want to engage with this guy, but I couldn't take it.
I raised my hand. I said, Dr. Kim, I'm from North Tulsa. That's not true.
>> Right.
>> He humiliated me, embarrassed me as he should have.
>> Wow.
>> And he told me at the end, he said, "You need to go talk to your elders. You need to do your research." And he lit a spark in me that's never been extinguished. He lit a flame that burned so strong that I would always learn about my community. I would educate others and I would fight for justice and reparation for what happened. So one, that's one of the reasons I want I wrote this book. I don't want anyone to say they didn't know, particularly a kid from North Tulsa, a kid from Oklahoma, you know, to write something that can be out here as an extension of the work is so important because learning this history Yeah.
>> changed my life, the trajectory of my life.
>> No question. No question. So, one of the things that you self described the book as a blueprint, and I find it, and forgive the language, but we're in church, providential and prophetic and poetic that this book came out now in this political environment. And again, I hope I hope everyone reads this. Um you say in the blueprint you you you say this is a blueprint. My question is what are the non-negotiable steps that we must take according to the blueprint in order to actually redeem this nation but also for us to experience reparatory justice. because you are unapologetic in seeking repair, >> right, >> for those who have been broken by what this country has done. What What are the non-negotiable steps?
>> Yeah. Well, what are the non-negotiable steps? Great question is I want everybody to understand that reparations is not radical.
What's radical is when you refuse to pay what you owe. That's radical. Thank you.
And so we have to like believe that wholeheartedly.
Also, we have to understand as it talks about reparations and we're talking about the president giving $1.7 mill billion dollars in reparations to January 6ers.
>> It let you know that America is not afraid of reparations.
>> No, America knows how to do reparations.
Reparations has been given to so many groups and organizations. And in fact, reparations is done each and every day in our court system every day. If blue car hits red car and red car's driver breaks his leg and missed time from work and his car is damaged, guess what? When you pay the medical bill to set the leg, that's reparations.
When you fix the the dent in the car, that's reparations. Yeah.
>> When you pay for the time off from work, that's reparations. When you pay for the pain and suffering, which is different from time off from work, which is different for the medical bill, which is different for the dent in the car, that's reparations. So my point is, we do this each and every day. It's a problem when it's for black people.
>> But as black people, we cannot accept that even mentally. Not enough black people believe in their heart that reparatory justice is due and can happen.
So yes, we have to believe it. And just remember again, they'll tell you all the things.
Oh, it's been too long. Oh, we don't know who actually enslaved who. Oh, we don't know who we going to pay. Oh, we going to know. That's the thing that makes Tulsa so important because we still have a living survivor.
>> We do.
Mother Lesie Benfield Randall, >> right?
>> 111 years old.
>> That's amazing.
And let me tell you, being in her presence and the presence of those other survivors, many of which I've worked with for years and passed on, is truly being in the presence of God.
and living with somebody, I mean, working with someone who completely embodies the black experience, a woman born in 1914, going through Jim Crow, going through sharecropping, going through domestic work, going through the depression, going through the World War I and World War II, going through the massacre, going through urban renewal, having a home taken and still believing that justice and reparations can come.
If a woman of that age can go to Washington DC, can go to court and sit in courtrooms with us for hours believing.
We have to believe because Greenwood was created in just a moment just like this. They call it a nadier.
>> Say that.
>> Nadier was a moment just like I call it MAGA delusion in the book. I'm gonna get in trouble. My wife don't like me talking about the maggas. She don't like that.
I call it magma delusion. What I mean is this is an era of antilackness violence. It's going to get worse. But the nadir was a period between 1877 and basically the civil rights movement in 1960 where black people were lynched daily.
Massacres happened all over this nation.
The massacre happened in Tulsa is not unique. Just the size scope and scale of what happened is unique.
>> Right. penance farmers, sharecropping, but during all of that worse that time, we were still building H.B.CU that are still existing today.
>> Come on up.
>> We were still building black denominations that are still existing today.
>> Right.
>> We were still building sororities and fraternities that are existing today during the Nadier period.
>> That's it. That's it.
>> And during the Nadier period, we built Greenwood, the greatest black city in the history of this country, most organized, most prosperous.
The point is we have to take that spirit of belief and resilience.
>> That's what's going to keep us to go today.
>> I love that. I love that. Give it up y'all. This is this is some good stuff.
Listen, uh I forgot to say we are online and uh so you know what do y'all do? uh share, like, subscribe, do that, but especially do some sharing right now because people need to get in on this conversation. I wanted to ask you this, and since you brought up Mother Fle Mother uh Randall, also there's Mother Fletcher, Mother Rand, Uncle Ellis, >> and three amazing people that you've had the opportunity to work with and to represent.
>> What did sharing with them teach you about justice that you didn't get in law school?
>> Oh man.
>> Well, first of all, I'm glad you mentioned Mother Viola Ford Fletcher.
>> Yeah.
>> Who passed away in November at 111 years old, right?
>> And her baby brother, Hughes Van Ellis, who we call Uncle Red, who passed away at 103 in Janu October of 2023. And actually, he passed while I was down here in Dallas. It's another Dallas deal.
>> Wow.
I think it's really important to say their names but also to understand what they taught me and what all survivors taught me is the value of resilience because the five think green principles that I identify in the book that created Greenwood and will recreate Greenwoods around this nation.
The fifth principle is willful resilience.
And I think about that willful resilience. I think about another survivor that I represented that some of you may if you're a jazz music a jazz fan you may have heard of a guy by the name of Hal Singer >> H >> Singer is a very famous jazz artist uh also uh a massacre survivor. He died in August of 2020 and I filed this new lawsuit in September one of 2020.
>> Right.
>> And Hal Singer was living in France at the time that I was talking to him about this case. Now you have to remember that I am standing on the shoulders of powerful men and women who's been fighting this fight for a long time.
>> And how Singer was represented by one of my mentors, Professor Charles Ogatree >> of Harvard University.
>> Great man.
>> In the early 2000s and we had a litigation at that point. I was a law student in the B.
>> He used to visit us every year at Friendship West. Wow.
>> Professor Ogre. Professor.
>> He was a Cowboys fan like crazy.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. He took me to the games. Great guy. Miss him.
>> In that litigation, to get to your to answer your question, we had over a 100 living survivors and we filed that case.
>> And when was this? What year was this?
>> This is in 200 2003.
>> Man, you still had a 100 living survivors.
>> Had 100 living survivors in 2003, >> man.
>> We filed that case. That case is dismissed in 2004.
We go to the Supreme Court. That case is dismissed. at the Supreme Court 2005.
In 2007, we started working with the late great John Conurs to introduce a bill called the Greenwood Accountability Act. In 2007, we go to DC, we do the whole thing. We have a hearing and you know, we had this one guy, y'all may have heard of this guy.
He was on he was a a little known representative from Indiana. He said, "Man, this this is a bad deal, but it's just been too long." His name was Mike Pence.
You may have heard of him >> unfortunately.
>> And so that bill languished for years and years and years never getting a hearing. So fast forward to 2019 2020. I'm getting ready for this new litigation.
I'm talking to Hal Singer. He's in France because he moved to France in the 60s because racism was so bad here in the United States.
He was on hospice.
He was blind.
He had little time to live.
>> And so his wife, Arlet Singer, they would be coordinating with me because they're in France. We got to figure this out how we can, you know, the timelines, >> right?
>> And I felt so bad that I was I felt like I was bothering them.
And I told the wife, I told Arless, I'm sorry. I'm going to stop calling y'all.
And she admonished me and said, "Hal is going to fight for what happened to his sweet parents and his community till he dies." She said, "I'm going to send you something." She sent me this letter that Mr. Singer had written to Professor Ogatree.
>> And in the letter, it's after what I just explained. We had lost in 2003. We had lost in 2005. We had lost in 2007.
He writes this letter in 2011. And he says, "Professor Ogatry, I want to thank you for everything you've done on our behalf, and as black people, we very rarely get what we deserve."
He said, "However, we must always fight for our rights and our dignity."
>> And that's what I learned from these survivors. We must always fight for our rights, but also our dignity. And what does that mean to fight for your dignity? We going to lose way more than we're going to win. But the dignity is in the fight.
>> Come on.
>> Come on.
>> That's the dignity.
>> I like that.
>> And that's the dignity that started in Greenwood in 1921 because the black men, they didn't just fall. They didn't just lay down. It took them over 12 hours. It took them getting thousands of whites.
It took them bringing the National Guard before they able to destroy our defenses. That's right. Get into our neighborhood and destroy everything because those black men and women were fighting not just for their rights but for their dignity.
>> Come on.
>> And in a moment that we're living in right now, we have to fight for our dignity. When they put a $1.7 billion reparations for criminals, >> criminals, doc, >> criminals, It's a slap to us cuz we know we're not criminals. We know what our grandparents and great-grandparents and great greats and done in this country. What we're owed.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we must fight for our rights and our dignity. And the dignity comes in the fight.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Say that. Say that. That's a word.
>> So, a part of that that leads me to this thing. Part of that, one of the things you share is that our survivors want, as much as they want compensation, they also want acknowledgment.
Acknowledgement. Because I think that is a part of fighting for dignity. You You don't just overlook what you've done to me, right?
>> And so, >> how do you draw the line between acknowledgement, repentance, and repair? Well, it's all that's a great question because sometime people want to skip.
>> They want to just skip steps. You need all of that, right? They want to say if they will give you apology, that's all they want to give you.
>> Yeah.
>> If they will acknowledge you and that's all they want to do. They don't want to do the next step. It's like reconciliation. You know, anybody that's married know you can't just say I'm sorry and and it's over and that's it.
If there's the issue, you got to do some repairaratory justice. You can't just say I'm sorry and move on. But that's what they want to do for us. And so full reparations requires all of those steps.
It requires acknowledgement, apology, restitution, compensation, and then the policies that won't happen again. It's very important that you understand those are the five things of reparations. And restitution and compensation are not the same thing in the law. For the lawyers in there, they'll tell you that restitution is just putting me back where I was. You that's restitution. Then you compensate me for what I am owed based upon the damages to me. And that's what we're always talking about. We want full reparatory justice. And so one of the things that was so hurtful for our survivors back in the early 2000s because remember if we just talked about for over 75 years nobody talked about the massacre. It's like it didn't happen. So our survivors at that time people like Otis Clark and um Dr. Olivia Hooks and so many others, El Joy McConnes, they really believed that once the world knew what happened to them, they would get justice. So that was crushing.
>> Yeah.
>> It was like, okay, they just don't know.
But now it's like you actually know and you still say no.
>> Yeah.
>> And that that kills some of them, >> man.
>> That very fact. For real.
>> Yeah.
>> For real. For real. That's real. So, and I I want to stick with that then. Uh you taught me something in the book.
>> I want to make sure I get it right. The public nuisance theory.
>> Uh which talks about the fact that because it has not been acknowledged, there's been an ongoing, you know, pain, you know, the continuing of the trauma from 1921 because it never has been >> repaired. Correct. It never has been dealt with. And so forgive me, you know, because I'm a preacher, you in the church. So I want to just ask you because that really resonates with biblical concepts of reparatory justice and that and and so my question becomes because again you're using redeem and restore and soul. And so I want to know have has your theology influenced your sense of law or has your sense of law influenced your theology?
>> Yeah. I think it's both. I mean my personal model is law is my ministry.
justice is my passion, you know, and I grew up a praying grandmother.
>> And so, as I talk about in the book, you know, understanding the power of God and prayer and just my sense of justice from being, you know, I grew up in the church. I think it's very, very important that we understand this is a spiritual fight, right? And I'm not the preacher, he's the preacher. But when I say a soul of America, >> Yeah.
>> in my author's note in the first page, I say, "But America's never had a soul."
>> Right. Right.
>> To only to to even think about having a soul, you have to repair the harms that created this country, which is the enslavement of black people and a destruction and genocide of indigenous people.
>> Thank you.
>> And so you have to call a thing a thing, >> right?
>> You know, my grandmother say what you do in the dark come to the light and then you can deal with it, right? And so I'm trying to bring these things to the light.
>> Yeah.
>> And so yeah, law is my ministry and justice is my passion. I feel like I've been called for this life to do this work. You know, I found out at also at OU. This is funny. This is in the book.
I'm a Creek Indian. I'm a Muscogi Creek Nation.
Muscogi Creek Indian. A lot of people don't realize that there are black people who are native and indigenous to this land. Right. So, yes. Yes. So, on my father's side of the family, my family will Anybody heard of Trail of Tears? Yeah. The Trail of Tears is when they marched the so-called five civilized tribes out of the United Southeast United States into what we now call Oklahoma, which is Indian territory. But why did they call these people the five civilized tribes? And this is the Chalkaw. Anybody seen Sinners? The movie Centers?
>> Yeah. Remember the in the very beginning the Chalk Talls was chasing the the vampire? Well, the Chalkaws are one of these so-called civilized tribes. It's the Chalkaw, the Chickasaw, the Creek, the Cherokee, and the Simol. They call them the civilized tribes because they adopted European ways of uh of culture, English, Christianity, and plantation style economies where they enslaved black people.
>> And so on this Trail of Tears, you had enslaved and free black people that came to Oklahoma ter Indian territory in the 1830s.
And on some of those people with my relatives, one relative in particular to talk about why I see this as a calling is a man by the name of Cal Tom, also known as Cal Miko. He was a man that fought in the US seminal wars in the 1820s. He came on a trail of tears, survived that. He survived the civil war where he became a chief of the Creek Nation because he saved the lives of thousands of Creeks that was starving to death at a place called Fort Gibson.
Then he became one of five individuals who negotiated and signed the treaty of 1866 on June 14th, 1866, 160 years ago. And in that treaty, he put in article 2, which ended the enslavement of Creeks of African descent. H >> this is my direct four-time great-grandfather. He was a lawyer fighting for black people.
>> I didn't even know this.
>> Now, my dad used to come over for visitation. and he would tell me we was a we had a chief and all this. I'm like, man, we don't have a car. I ain't no chief.
Over here broke. You talking about a chief? You don't have to lie to kick it.
I went to OU and it was true. I learned all about that.
>> Wow.
>> I learned about my history. I learned about my genealogy. And so, one thing I'm I'm trying to encourage people on this tour, as much as people ask me, what can we do? Start with learning your your own history.
>> Say that. your own history, >> right?
>> Because everybody in here has something that their family has overcome and they've done something great or they've had to run from some they had to overcome a bankruptcy that some geneal something. Learn your own history because learning my genealogy put me on a path that you cannot tell me that I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing because Cal Tom did it. Because Jake Simmons senior did it.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, in his own down the line.
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good.
So, I want to talk about the whole court system. Um >> Oh, the public nuisance. Yeah. You want to get to that?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do that. Do that.
>> Yeah. So, a public nuisance, not to get too technical, it simply says Oklahoma had a law by 17 other states that if there is a continuation of a harm, then there's no statute of limitations because that's the biggest defense. The statute of limitations basically says it's too late for you to sue. So, that's the main thing they say. Hey, it's been too long. That's happened too long ago.
But we were able in Oklahoma, you guys heard about the opioid litigation. It was happening all over the nation, right? And Oklahoma was able to get a 470 millionoll verdict against a bunch of opioid companies like Johnson and Johnson. And they went back to the 1980s on this opio. So we were saying, well, man, if they can go back to the 1980s, we should be able to go back because the harm is continuing. And this is the way we're explaining to the court.
Y'all remember in 2011 when they had that huge BP oil spill down the Gulf of Mexico? Remember that?
>> And we all watched on TV as there was thousands of gallons of oil was just shooting out into the the Gulf. Remember that? And they tried daily. They was trying to plug it. They couldn't plug it. That's the triggering act. That's like the bombs dropping. That's like the flames going. It's like the mayhem. But at some point, they stopped the oil from gushing out, right? But the ore that already gushed out, was it still causing problems?
>> Was it still polluting the earth? Still killing wildlife? That's the same thing.
Just because they put out the flames of the massacre, the harm was still going ongoing. And they compounded the harm when they came in with urban renewal, which we call negro removal, >> right?
>> Would happen all over the nation. And so we were able to show that. And our mayor at the time, Mayor GT Bayham, whose family has been mayors in Tulsa going back to 1898. They've been a part of this, right?
>> Yeah.
>> He said in 2019 that the racial and economic disparities that we see in north to in Tulsa is a direct result of the 1921 Tulsa race mask. Sounds like continuing harm to me. What about y'all?
What do y'all think? That sound like continuing harm, right?
And so we we bought that case. And the the great thing about the case is we were going to file a protest case, meaning we didn't know we had a real chance to win. And in law, if you don't have what they call a meritorious case, you can get hit with sanctions, a rule 11 sanctions, right? Ain't that right, Roslin? It's my classmate there as a Lloyd. We had decided that the centennial was coming. The city of Tulsa was whitewashing the massacre and trying to make themselves look good. They actually put took out a full page ad in USA Today Shan and said that Tulsa was leading the nation in racial justice.
>> The city of Tulsa.
I was so upset about that. I said, "I'm going to file this case. I don't care if I get fake sanctioned." And my wife, you guys got to just pray for Mia because she was like, "Don't do that."
But when we filed a public nuisance, we had a real case. So in our case, we don't even you mention the word reparations. We just going by the actual case. And they actually changed the law just to stop our case from being successful.
>> Change the law. They they don't just change the goalpost for black folks.
They go to a different stadium.
>> Exactly. Exactly. And then wonder why we don't score a touchdown.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Sometime I feel like I'm running down like free about to score and just somebody off the sideline come out and tap.
>> Come on, man. Come on. And and no penalty as well.
>> No penalty, nothing.
>> Right. Right. So, I hope I remember remember this right. May of 22, >> a district court basically reversed itself and said you could proceed.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And then the Supreme Court of Oklahoma basically squashed, and I'm not using legal terminology because I'm not a lawyer, but the uh Supreme Court squashed it. And so it's like >> Yeah. I mean, so so actually on May 2nd, 2022, it's one of the greatest days of my life.
>> We were at the Tulsa County Courthouse.
It was hundreds of people. It was the most people that's ever been at a courthouse in Tulsa.
>> Wow.
>> We have people from all over the nation, but a lot of community folks. And I detailed this in the movie. You ever seen the movie like uh Tequila Mark? Not Tequila Mockinberg. What's the movie with Samuel Jackson? Time to kill.
>> Time to kill. Yeah. It was that type of an atmosphere so much they was standing room only and our judge said >> you all can stay unless the fire marshal comes >> and make you all leave.
>> And I walked into that room and we had a six-hour hearing and our three survivors were there. And we put on a great case and normally what happens at a court is the judge after something that long the judge says we're going to take it under advisement and we're going to issue a written order. But she said, "I'm going to rule from the bench." And the way she set it up, she told the the baiffs um to lock to man the doors and she don't want to hear any any noise. So in my mind, she about to rule against us, >> right?
>> And then she said, "Granted in part because it was a motion of dismiss." So they wanted their motion to be granted.
She said, "Granted in part, denied in part." And it was dead silence. Nobody knew what that meant, >> right? But in my mind, I was it was just screaming, "We survived."
And I screamed, "We survived." And I jumped as high as that ceiling up there.
And then we went out into the loudest, most powerful chant of justice for Greenwood, justice for Greenwood inside of the courtroom. This does not happen.
>> Right.
>> Then we come outside and it's just like people are crying. People are so ecstatic because we're able to move forward into discovery. And what that means in discovery, we can get all these records. See, one of my classmates from OU law school, Shalia, who is also a descendant. When you get in discovery, you can get all these records that's been hidden for all this time.
>> Yeah.
>> And that makes people want to settle cases. Yeah. Right.
>> Because we don't know. So, we know very little about the massacre, but we know even less from the white side.
>> Wow.
>> Everything we know is from the black side, from the victim side. Yeah. We know way less from what their records, >> right?
>> And so we were very ecstatic.
>> In fact, we were the number one story in the world in the nation at the time. And then they leaked the dos decision which ended rolling.
>> Wow. That's right. Yeah.
>> So that's that day, right?
>> And then two months later, our judge basically reversed herself, >> right? somebody got to her and then about the next July she dismisses our case and then we had to go to the Supreme Court, >> right?
>> And I talk about this a lot in the book.
I'm not an appellet attorney. I'm a trial attorney. You know, appellet attorney is much different, much different skill set. Trial attorney is like what you see with Johnny Cochran and people on TV. You don't really see the the boring stand at the lectan. I mean, they got a good skill. Don't try to disc. It's just not my skill set necessarily, >> right?
>> But my team said >> I had to be the one to argue the case because I know it better than everybody else.
>> So I had six weeks once they gave us an oral argument date >> to become an appellet attorney >> and it almost put me in the grave, >> man.
>> I had I was having shortness of breath.
>> So you shifted your whole mindset.
>> I shifted everything.
>> I was working on this case. I was having shortness of breath. I thought it was my allergies. And my wife again, Mia, she said, "Now you need to go to the doctor." We get in and she says he's not he can't breathe very well. And they said, "Well, they bought out a wheelchair."
Homer, they bought out a wheelchair for me. And I said, "I ain't get in that wheelchair. I don't need no wheelchair.
It's my allergies." And me look at me like, "Boy, you better get in that dang wheelchair." And they take me back and they give me an EKG. And then I'm sitting in there and they the doctor comes in and he said, "Hey, we're going to have to hold you. U you've had a heart. We think you had a heart event."
I'm like, "It's a heart event." He said, "Well, we think you might had a small heart attack.
And it was like, wow. So, I had to go through like six hours of test. I had to get the CT scan with the contrast and all the calcium and all that stuff. It was a very scary time. But it's also kind of funny because we was out in a place called Aaso, which is a very white sub suburb. And it was like a tellahalth guy, a cardiologist, and he came on the FaceTime and he was black and I was black and he was looking at me like, "What you doing out here, bro?" And I'm looking at him like, "You a black you a black doctor."
But yeah, that was a very stressful time.
>> Yeah.
>> But I and I didn't tell anybody. Only people knew was my wife. My family didn't know. My friends didn't know. No one knew that that happened. I took a couple days off, got ready. We did the hearing. Now again, this hearing, the first one I told you about is in Tulsa.
The Oklahoma City Supreme Court hearing is in Oklahoma City. That's about a 100 miles from Tulsa.
>> No one goes up to the Supreme Court. I had never even been argued there. It was packed with black people from North Tulsa. This they got on buses to come down watch this this argument and it was me, it was nine white justices. They call themselves conservatives. They not really conservatives.
>> They something else, but I'm going to build the church, >> right? Racial.
>> And I just thought it was so amazing that me, this I always see myself as this little country black boy from North Tulsa. I'm in front of all these nine white justices. I got all my community right there, >> right? And at the end, I knew we had done really well, but I kind of knew we had lost because at the end, the oldest justice said, "Mr. Solomon Simmons, no matter what happens, >> Wow.
>> I want you to know you've done a great job."
>> Wow.
>> And you have you've exposed an issue that I never even knew about. I said, "Oh, damn. We didn't lost."
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> But we got a standing ovation.
And going back to the fight for your rights and your dignity, the dignity that my people felt for our case to finally get to the Oklahoma Supreme Court and be known to the world. Even though we lost, we got our dignity.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
So, you just took us on a roller coaster ride emotionally. I mean, that's a lot.
And so my question now is what does that teach us and what does it say to you about the American court system and how sometimes it is an instrument of redemption and other times it's an obstacle to redemption.
>> Well, it's mostly an obstacle to redemption. Be honest with you. How sad is that?
>> Yeah, it is. I mean, you know, I have sat with so many families who've been wronged and wrongful deaths and all type of stuff. And most of the time, the justice system is is an injustice system. Um, but it's what we have to utilize. I mean, the only option you going to fight one or two ways, right? You either going to fight physically or you going to fight with your words and and and in in your in your what you write down. And so, that's where I choose to fight. That's what we have to do. We have to continue to more learn more about this system.
But one of the things that is so difficult in this work and you understand this, you have to delude yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> And what I mean by that, you have to I have to I have to act like I don't know what the system is like, >> right?
>> I have to I have to play like I see my boy Seem out there.
My god, I was struggling with the bar with him. That's one of the best lawyers around. See, somebody I have to I have to act like, okay, if I just work harder, if I study longer, if I prepare more, if I know the case law more, know the facts better, no matter what, I can win. And you know how frustrating it is to go in there and knowing that you are like so much better than your opponent and they're doing the bare minimum, but they can just get away with that. Like they sitting here like I'm giving the full Johnny Cochran, right? and they sitting there reading and just boring and just but the system's on their side.
>> Yeah.
>> So that that's that's difficult sometimes. Often times more than people know, my wife knows, I be like, man, I could do something so much easier and make so much more money.
But then I think about a photo that I have in the book of days after the massacre.
It's two gentlemen and they're in a tent and one gentleman's name is BC Franklin, attorney BC Franklin. And then and and the other gentleman is his law partner, IW Spears.
>> And then they have their secretary and they're in this tent and they have law books around them.
and a typewriter.
And they literally, brother John Butler, they're literally filing lawsuits against the very people that just burnt down everything while in a tent.
And so the days that I'm feeling low, the days I'm wanting to quit, the days I'm saying, you know, it it's not going to matter. I look at that picture and I'm inspired.
And you you see that picture in the book. You know these gentlemen are dignified again. They were fighting for rights and dignity in a tent. They were still dignified.
>> And so that's what we have to do. I keep coming back to that.
>> Yeah. I feel that >> what we are right now is a dark time.
It's going to get worse.
It's going to be more bloodshed. It's going to be more illegality, more corruption. And I'm not some Nostradamus. I just understand history.
>> Exactly.
>> I just know where we are in the timeline.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> This is this is this is 1888.
>> You know, they doing all the same things. The whole of Pie versus Ferguson, all that time period, that was 1896. It's the same time period.
>> And one of the things I talk about in the book, you know, people think that uh wealth and money will save us. It will not.
The thing that will save us is a thing that's important that built Greenwood and built black communities all around this country is love. Community love.
>> Word, man. Word.
>> And and the reason I say that, a lot of people most people have heard of pie versus Ferguson. Yeah. Most people that's the case where they said basic could be separate but but equal. Of course, we never had equal.
>> But what people don't realize about the pie versus Ferguson case is that Mr. Mr. Pie, he looked like a white man, >> right? And he was rich.
>> That's right.
>> And that was the reason why they sent him on that train. They said, "Well, you know, they won't do this to you."
>> That's right.
>> And they said, "Nero, we don't give a dang. One drop of black blood, you're black. We don't care how much money you have." So, I say that to say that many times the Greenwood story is hijacked by this black capitalism story.
>> Come on.
>> And it's not black capitalism that built Greenwood. It was community love that built Greenwood.
And that community love is best exemplified in the very triggering act of the massacre when a 19-year-old shoe shine boy, a shoe shine boy, and I don't say that to diminish his profession. I say that because Dick Roland was not a wealthy person.
>> Thank you.
>> Dick Roland was not a big property owner.
>> Thank you.
>> Dick Roland was not powerful. But you know what Dick Roland was? He was a part of Greenwood.
And when those white men, those 2,000 white men was outside the courthouse calling for his blood blood and to murder him, the most powerful, the most wellorganized, well-connected property owners and businessmen in Greenwood got together and went downtown and said, "You will not lynch him."
>> That's right.
>> He's one of ours. That's community love.
That's the radical community love we must have in this moment.
>> Come on, man.
That is the only thing that will sustain us. And we still may suffer the ultimate fate of Greenwood, but you will be fighting with your rights and your dignity together.
And that's what it's going to take in this moment.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Real talk. Real talk.
One of the things I've heard you say either on Lorie show or maybe it was in the book, you said Greenwood is still burning.
>> Talk to us what you mean. What do you mean by Greenwood is still burning 1921 2026?
>> Sure. Well, first of all, Greenwood now is a half a block. Like the traditional Greenwood area. Like people say, "I want to go see Black Wall Street." They go see a half a block. But Greenwood that was in 1921 was 40 blocks.
It was four square miles, >> man.
>> It was a size. It was bigger than Harlem, New York.
So that's one aspect that Greenwood is still burning. Greenwood is still burning because black people live 11 to 14 years less than their white counterparts. Greenwood is still burning because the highway that they put through Greenwood in the 1960s to destroy what was built back up is still there.
Greenwood is still burning because black people continue to be overpoliced and brutalized by the police the same way we were police overpoliced and brutalized in 1921 by the police.
>> Right. Right.
>> It's the same city. It's the same system. And so that's why I say Greenwood is still burning because Mother Randall whose grandmother's home was burnt during the massacre and then they repaired that home and then in 1980 the city came and took that home from her and gave it to a white business.
>> That's how Greenwood is still burning.
>> Yeah.
>> And Mother Randall and Mother Fletcher and Uncle Red and everyone else, they all died without any reparatory justice.
Now, our efforts, and I'm proud of this, we were able to get them privately about a million dollars a piece. We were able to privately move them into a really nice healthc care facility, which I believe is one of the reasons there she's still living, but that was all based on our private >> efforts. Yeah.
>> It was not from the the perpetrators, right, >> of the massacre, >> right?
>> And so Greenwood is still burning just like that oil was still pumping out until you repair the horn.
>> Right. Right. So, I'm glad you said that because, and correct me where I'm wrong, there's a Greenwood Trust >> that's supposed to be operational. Is it next month?
>> That's what they said.
>> That's what they said. Next month, a Greenwood Trust. And this is private money.
>> And there's a difference between philanthropy or charity and justice.
And so talk to me, talk to us about how does philanthropy make up for what the courts and what justice does not do.
>> No.
Just like I told you guys that reparations are not radical. Refusing to pay what you owe is radical. To remember that. Remember reparations is not charity.
Reparations starts with the question.
And the first question is, is there a debt owed? That's the first question.
Charity, philanthropy, donations, all that stuff is good. It has its place, but it's not paying the debt that is actually owed.
>> And it actually cannot pay the debt that's owed because the debt needs to be paid by the perpetrators.
>> Again, anybody that's in any relationship, you do something, make your significant loved one mad. You can't call your brother over to to give flowers and say, "Hey, I'm doing this for him. He's good now." No, it don't work that way.
>> Yeah.
>> You have to repair the harm because you are the harm maker, >> right?
>> And so charity, reparations is not charity. It is payment for a debt owed.
It is something that's been around in the law for over 500 years. And again, it's something we do every every every day in this country. And we've done it for 911 victims. We've done it for Native American victims. We done it for Japanese American victims and all these people deserved the reparatory justice.
>> No question.
>> Right. We just deserve Do you know that they pay reparations in 1862 when um in DC they outlawed enslavement? They paid reparations to enslavers >> to the former slave owners. That's right.
>> Do you know in Britain when they outlawed enslavement in 1808 they paid reparations to those slaveolding families to 2015? from 1808 the last payments were made into 2015. Like this is something that that that happens all the time in Haiti. They made Haiti pay reparations to France for getting their own freedom, >> right? So it's a debt owed. And so that's the language that we have to master.
>> Yeah.
>> Anytime someone's talking about I don't believe in reparations and you know people say about reparations, oh even black folk we need to do for ourselves.
Yeah, we need to do it for ourselves but they also need to pay for what they owe us. Right.
>> Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Dr. King often said when others were referred to as raising themselves by their own bootstraps, he would clap back brilliantly with the fact. But no one else on these shores has had to endure the the the the the pain and the legacy of American slavery which was like no other expression of enslavement in the history of humanity.
>> 100%. That's I have this in the book I one of the things I talk about is you hear black folks saying we our own worst enemy. Y'all hear that?
>> It's not true. How can we how can we be our own worst enemy when we got an actual enemy?
>> We have an actual 500year enemy called white supremacy, >> a ideology that infects this country. It infects black people and white people and Asian people alike. That is the enemy. And empirical studies show that black people actually work together more than other groups based on our history.
>> Boom. So we internalize these stories about ourselves to make ourselves like we're the problem. We're not the problem. Doesn't that mean we we should do for self and all? Yes, we should. But the system is the real problem. And so just important that we say that when you say or people try to compare us to other groups. Well, look how they do it. Look what the No one has our history.
>> No one.
>> We can't be compared to anyone. They took everything from us. our language.
Yeah. Our our our our religions, our morays, our culture, >> our families, >> our names.
>> Yeah.
>> You can't compare us to anyone else.
>> But that's a trick to start comparing and saying what other groups do when you're not really dealing with the trauma. We are a traumatized people.
And so that's why it's important for us, as I said again, to work within our own families and understand what's going on and work with our own families. I go back to the love, the radical love. It's like the work I do with all my case.
Most of my cases, someone like if you calling me as your lawyer, something really bad happened, right? Somebody didn't got brutalized. Somebody didn't got killed.
>> Yeah. So I my whole practice has to be built around a radical love because I'm dealing with a traumatized scenario. But that's our everyday life as black people in our communities.
>> So you I can talk to you just forever >> and I can talk forever. They can tell you >> I Hey and I'm loving it. So but I I got to get to this because again we talking reparations repairing what has been broken. And of course there are those who say, "I want my check." What does reparations look like? What does it really entail when repair takes place, a nation gets redeemed, and a soul is restored?
>> Man on a on a you talking about from a macro level or just in Greenwood?
>> All the above.
>> All the above. Yeah. Well, if you if reparations will look like first of all, it should be a check. That was be very clear. We live in a capitalistic society, unfortunately. So, you got to have money. You need capital. So it should be a check, but it should be land back. It should be Yes. It should be land back. It should also be tax abatement. You know, one of the things we talked about in Greenwood was like, listen, Mother Randall, she's been paying city taxes and expenses for over a hundred years. When the city owes her, there should be tax abatement. Black folks, now I pay my taxes. Let me be very clear.
But we should not have to do that when we're owed. We're owed. Again, remember reparations is the debt owed. You owe me. So, there should be some type of tax abatement scenario. There should be mental and emotional services for black people.
That should be a there should be funding for that. And again, the the the the I don't want to say the beauty, the the the silver lining in Trump is that he is showing us that when there is political will, now he's a criminal.
We know that. And he's highly unethical, immoral, all that stuff, >> all of it.
>> But a lot of things he's doing is not illegal.
>> He has the political will to do it.
And so he's showing us that if we have enough political will and bold and courageous people like what you're going to be when you're going to be our next US congressman from this area, >> we can have bold things to happen. So reparations can also look like healthc care for all.
>> Yeah.
>> It can also look like that corporations are not people friend.
>> Come on now.
>> Right.
>> It can also look like that you going to make sure that this prison industrial complex is reorientated. If you know that everybody in there is 100 to one crack to co crack to powder cocaine, how can these people still be sitting in prison? That's not reparatory justice >> at all.
>> Off the top, it's like we're going to reduce your sentence down to what it would have been if if this was equal.
That's reparatory justice. I can go down the line. Maternal health care for black women is reparatory justice.
making sure that people and kids have a proper education that is not devoid of their own history, eraser of their history. Yeah, >> that's reparatory justice. That's one of the things I'm so proud about in Tulsa is that we caused the city of Tulsa >> to institute the Tulsa Race Massacre Remembrance Day, which is now a citywide holiday. So, you went from when I was growing up, no one talked about the massacre to now we have a citywide holiday every June 1st. That's huge.
But it's just an executive order.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Meaning that the next mayor can come and get rid of it. So I one thing I need for all of you to do is to join with me at redeemernation.com because we want to push to make sure that that becomes a city ordinance and it's permanent. So no kid grows up never hearing about the massacre.
>> Good, man. Love that. That's awesome.
Awesome. Awesome.
So check this. I need you to help me now. So, we're in a climate politically where dic t woke, uh, all of these are bad words, not to mention reparations, >> right?
>> Help me and my colleagues who preach the gospel.
What do we how can we move forward preaching a gospel of reparations without selfcensoring ourselves or being timid? Because one of the point the one of the people you pointed out in the White House, he's bold as I don't know what. Ain't nothing scared about his game. And we're being apathetic and timid.
How do we boldly preach this, live this, organize for this?
>> You know, when you said like, so from my perspective, even focusing on DEI is a retreatment from where we should have been cuz see DEI is a retreatment from affirmative action. Come on.
>> Which is a retreatment from reparation.
>> Come on.
>> Right. So, I think we focused on what we really want. We didn't we didn't ask for DEI. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it didn't really necessarily help black people, the black community. White women was the biggest beneficiaries of those policies. We know that empirically. Period. So, don't once you start adopting the narrative of the other side, you already losing. and they're very good at this white right to work and all those type of things. It doesn't mean anything.
>> So don't self censor. Stand on the law.
Stand on the 14th amendment. Stand on the 13th amendment. Stand on the Civil Rights Act of 1866. Stand on the title uh Civil Rights Act 1964. These laws are still on the books. It doesn't really matter practically that they do away with DEI or whatever because the law is still the same. But we get caught up in the words. We get caught up in the nomenclature. But the law hasn't changed. The law hasn't changed. Now these companies that wanted to get rid of DEI because they didn't want to do it in the first place.
>> Period.
>> We kind of lost our way thinking that after George Floyd and the pandemic, can y'all believe we had a pandemic? Just by the way, >> ain't that crazy?
>> That's crazy. Like that really happened.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm sorry.
>> We thought that things were really changing in this country.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they wanted to put some money behind the DEI. So I would say don't self-center keep the main thing the main thing and the main thing is reparatory justice.
>> I love that. I love that. So yeah, give it up. Give it up. Give it up. I got one more for you. Say it's some young person and I see young folk in the house and they're saying they inspired by this.
They're inspired by this conversation and they want to know now what can they do to get in this fight? What do you recommend? Well, first thing I recommend is to get the book.
>> I agree.
>> I would say go to redeemeration.com and join with us because what we're doing there, we're trying to galvanize people and particularly young people to come together and not be scattered, right? And so we have a toolkit there and I know you're saying, "Oh, I want download toolkit." But we live in a society right now where it feels like actually being productive is being active. And that's not the same thing of moving and just, you know, getting online. And there's nothing wrong with getting online. I'm online every day.
Y'all see my my Facebook, my Instagram's popping, right? The point I am making is that we must study to show our self approved.
>> Yeah.
>> We must spend some time actually understanding what the issues are. And so, if you go to redeemernation.com, you can connect with us and then we'll get you involved at Justice for Greenwood.
We'll put you we'll put you in in line in something that interests you. If you want to work with descendants, we can you can do that. If you want to work on oral histories, you want to work on genealogy, we can do that. You want to work on narrative building, we're always looking for people to help with the narrative to build storytelling, we can help you do that. If you want to get involved in legal work, we can help you do that. But the main thing is being in community today. This is such a beautiful audience. It's so diverse from a racial standpoint, from age, from gender. It takes us getting with like-minded people, getting together and working on one accord. It doesn't require everybody. See, we always sometimes say if everybody everybody's not going to do it, and that's okay.
We're in a church. Gideon's army went from 10,000 to what? 300.
>> 300.
>> You just need a few dedicated people on one accord to move a mountain.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's what we're looking for.
>> I love it. I love it. I love it. Uh, I got to ask this because I mean I'm so proud of you and I hear you on the radio. I hear about you here, there and watch you on social media and you have a grueling pace. I'm hesitant to ask this question because Reverend Jesse Jackson in 88, he's running for president and his pace was just crazy.
Jackson was I mean he was energetic like the you know the bunny. Uh and so he's moving and grooving and somebody finally asked him they said man your pace is so grueling. This has to be wearing you out. You know what keeps you going? And his response was it beats picking cotton.
And so I know this beats picking cotton, >> but what keeps you going, man, at this pace? Because you're doing some great work and you're making a difference.
>> When I was growing up, like I said, we lived in uh you know, my mother's single mom and we were low income. My mother's handicapped. She was born with cerebopal palsy and somehow she afforded a psychopedia set that is blue encyclopedia set like a doortodoor salesman type deal. I don't know how she afforded because she only made she only got $500 a month from me, my brother and myself. and she got this encyclopedia set and I would just read them over and over and over and over and I always saw myself inside of those encyclopedias like the people that was doing things for their people. I mean even people as diverse as you you talk about Dr. King, who's a hero of mine, but even like Jon of Arc, like just random folks that stood up and now somebody is like remembering them from 1500, you know, 400 years later.
>> Wow.
>> And that just always impacted me. And then to couple that with my grandparents, Mama and Daddy Brown, who I spent so much time with them because we were low, you know, low income and they helped raise me and realizing that my grandmother was a sharecropper like a literally you talking about picking cotton. My grandmother picked cotton.
She didn't get through, she didn't get to go to high school. My grandfather didn't get to go to high school. But somehow they were able to integrate their block, fight off white supremist, own a home, own a boat, get my mother, who was born, my mother couldn't walk till she was five years old. She had to go back and forth from Tulsa to St. Louis to the Shriners Hospital on multiple occasions. They would have to get on a on a train.
And just to know those stories, my aunt Etna who integrated Central High School >> and Roosevelt Middle School, she told me that when she would go to school and they would sing, you know, they had to do the uh pledge allegiance and at the end they would say liberty and justice for all except black people.
>> Shut up, man.
>> You know, those stories >> Yeah. just impacted me to a point that even when my was wilding out, I always felt like I could overcome anything because of the heritage and the lineage that I come from. So, I think those those things just that combination and and wanting to to create a better life for those who come after me is the things that keeps keeps me going.
>> Man, that's powerful. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you.
If you don't mind, uh, we're about to wrap it cuz we going to sign books, right? We're going to sign books, right?
We're going to sign books. So, we going to sign books.
>> Sign books.
>> And so, >> yeah, sign books. That means you bought books.
>> Yeah. Amen.
>> That's right. That's right.
>> Like taking up the offering. Don't let them out.
>> Right. That's right.
>> Lock the doors.
>> Close the door.
>> Get you in trouble. Close the door. I'm going get you in trouble.
>> I didn't say that. Okay. That was Deario Solomon.
>> If they don't buy five books, they can't leave.
I want to do something because this this is amazing dude right here and I I want us to pray for him.
>> Thank you.
>> And pray for his wonderful wife.
>> Uh because they are moving all over and you know this is fire. Just want you to know that. And country ain't ready for it in too many instances. And so I want us to cover tomorrow and his wonderful wife in prayer. So would you join me now? God, thank you so much for the gifts you have so richly invested in this couple. I thank you and praise you for every mountain you've brought them over, for every trial you've seen them through. I thank you and praise you, oh God, for the brilliance and the boldness of Deario.
I thank you for the partnership and love of his wife. I thank you for the wisdom and strength of his grandmother. I thank you and praise you for everyone who has impacted, inspired, and influenced him. I pray now your blessings upon him. Continue to refuel him.
Keep him encouraged.
May his spirit and heart remain strong.
May his mind be ever sharpened for the facing of this hour. And then God, I thank you for this night. And I ask in a special way that none of us would leave here the same way we came, but may we leave here empowered.
May we leave here encouraged to do the work to restore the soul of a nation to redeem this nation. You're God.
You're good. You're able. As a matter of fact, you're the God of our resurrected revolutionary.
That sable skin savior from the streets, Jesus. And so, we know you did it through him. You can do it with us. And we ask it all in his name we pray. Amen.
Amen. All right. All right. Huh? I'll check my thing here. Okay. We need the invitation.
Okay. So, I got to uh I've been given some instructions so that we can do this, right? So, y'all got to stick with me. Okay. You got to stick with me. Uh first of all uh this is uh church and this man has faith as you can hear. So uh we're going to give you an opportunity now to give your life to Christ to join church. You're here and you know you need to know this savior who is the inspiration behind this man and this message. If that's you, tonight's a good night to give your life to Christ and join church. I have wonderful ministers who will receive you, cover you in prayer, and you can leave here tonight with your life being reset, redeemed, restored.
That can happen tonight. If that's you, all you got to do is stand up, step out, come on down the aisle. They'll greet you. They'll meet you. They'll pray with you. And tonight will represent a fresh start and a new beginning. So come on right now. Come on right now. It's a mighty good time to say yes to the Lord.
A mighty good time to give your life to Christ. Come on, do it right now. Do it right now. Do it right now.
Or you may feel be feel led to join the church. We'd love to have you. I'd love to serve as your pastor. Tonight's a good night to join church. Come on down.
Join church. Do it right now. Do it right now. God bless you. Shall we pray?
God, thank you for the gift of new life in Christ and the blessing of community.
Bless all in the house, all online.
And may we all walk in the power of the newness of life, always recognizing the power of a loving community. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. All right. Now, we in a black church, black Baptist church at that.
It's offering time. It's offering time.
So, so at this time, you can give. There are several ways to give. You can give by texting to give. Uh you text uh FWBC to 9722009419.
You can also use the QR code that you see up on the screen. You can also use the Giveify app for those online. Search out Friendship West. And of course you can give through uh our website and our FWBC app. Please now give liberally and lovingly to the work that God is doing through this church uh that believes strongly not just in bringing the tithe to the storehouse but for the storehouse to benefit and fight for the community.
God, thank you so much for the privilege of giving. Receive these gifts as expressions of our obedience and thanksgiving in Jesus name. Amen. All right. Now, we're going to give instructions for the book signing after we cut the stream. All right.
>> They want to do a group photo with everybody with their book.
>> Beautiful. Yeah, we're going to do a group photo with everyone with their book. So, make sure you get your book and it's going to be on and popping.
Okay. All right. So, where the books?
>> I don't know.
>> All the books are in the foyer.
Okay. Oh, right here. Okay. Yeah. Come give us instructions. Okay. Come give us instructions. I appreciate that.
All right. You want to give the offering first? I love you. I love you. Uh Doc, we we got an offering giver right here from that amazing bookstore that we all need to recognize all the time. The Doc Bookstore.
Would y'all give it up for the Doc Bookstore? because our bookstores are being run out of the country and so I appreciate every time we have something we go through the dock. Is that right, Doc?
>> Or Pana.
>> Or Panaffrican. That's my girl. A Panaffrican. All right.
Yeah. Here she is right here. Okay.
>> Why do I break it up?
>> No, you good. You real good. Thank you.
>> You need the mic?
photo.
>> So, you want to do the group photo first?
Okay.
>> Oh, >> cut the stream.
>> Okay. No. The Lord bless you. The Lord keep you. The Lord cause God's face to shine on you and be gracious unto you.
The Lord lift up the light of God's countenance upon you and grant you peace in Jesus name. Amen.
Wait, don't log off just yet. We've got some important things to share with you before you go. First, thank you so much for being a part of today's worship experience. We're so glad you chose to spend this time with us, and we pray you feel the same. Next, we want to extend a special invitation for you to join us again next Sunday. We have got to have you back. Whether it be online or in person, there's always a place for you here at Friendship West. And don't come alone. Invite a friend, a family member, or even a neighbor to join in on what God is doing here. Share the link, send a text, and spread the word. Finally, don't forget to stay connected with us throughout the week. Follow us on all of our social media platforms at Friendship West. Subscribe to our YouTube channel and check out our website to stay uptodate on everything happening here at the west. Once again, thank you so much for being with us today and have an amazing week and we'll see you next Sunday right here at Friendship West.
West Baptist Church.
Come experience yourself.
Come experience. Come experience the love for yourself.
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