Professor Carl Truman's thesis in 'The Desecration of Man' argues that modern society's loss of meaning is not merely 'disenchantment' but a deliberate act of desecration, where people actively reject God and human dignity by reducing humans to mere biological machines, thereby profaning what God has created holy. This desecration manifests through Darwinistic reductionism, transgenderism, and transhumanism, which strip humans of their sacred status as beings created in God's image. The speaker, a canon law student, presents this thesis as an explanation for why people who oppose God engage in such destructive behaviors, connecting it to broader discussions about the fragmentation of Protestantism and the challenges of maintaining coherent religious communities in modern society.
Open Mic: Desecration of Man, Culture Shock, Fractured Protestantism, Enemy AlgorithmsAdded:
Good evening and uh greetings from Washington DC. Uh happy to join you all here in uh Eastern time. Um I'm using a new setup right now. So if there's something wrong with the audio or the video, I'd like to hear about that as soon as possible. Uh but when I was testing everything, it seemed to be working just fine. And uh yeah, I'm back in uh Washington DC for my last semester of canon law studies. And um you know, in addition to uh uh beginning with all of my classwork, I uh I picked up a a book on Kindle that uh I had read a review of in first things. And uh you know, the thesis of it really caught my attention. Uh it's the desecration of man uh how God rejection of God degrades our humanity by professor Carl Truman.
And uh you know I know that we have a uh a certain favor of old books on this channel and that certainly isn't uh going away anytime soon. But uh this one, you know, the thesis of it really uh caught my eye. Um, and uh, you know, the way that uh, uh, Professor Truman explains it, you know, he was pretty tuned in to all of this disenchantment talk that you'd hear, you know, it's something that Rod Dreer's been on about. It's something that you'll hear from Jonathan PJO and and a number of other uh, uh, uh, thinkers in the Peterson sphere here.
Um, and he heard that and he said, "Well, I think the uh the people who are doing all this disenchantment talk, they're they're on to something, but they don't have the full uh the full story here. And uh what's what's happening to human beings isn't just disenchantment.
Uh it's actually a willful act of desecration.
It's a bit more of a a strong and pointed word. uh one that we're we're not used to to using in these discussions. But you know um what he looks at in order to come to this conclusion is is the behavior of the people who are are are causing the most disenchantment. Right? So you know uh in the standard accounts we've got people who are uh are pushing a reductionist scient uh materialist view of the world.
they're um they're they're not making taking proper account of spiritual realities and uh are instead flattening everything out and uh this is what leads to people feeling disenchanted like there's no potential or possibility of the universe but everything's just mechanically grinding away. But when you look at the people who are uh most uh most in tune with these movements, the people who are actually, you know, projecting it out into the world, who are actually promoting this view of things, um it isn't something that's proceeding mechanistically for them.
When we look at people who are are are promoting these ideas, right, uh they're gleeful.
They're joyful about what they're doing.
They're giddy at the prospect that we're throwing off the shackles of the old morality, that we're, you know, banishing the Galilean uh back to his rightful place, that we're, you know, throwing off the uh oppressive weight of uh uh the classical systems, and we're we're entering into this new age. and and it it uh it just seems to uh to really make things click a little bit more for me.
You know, it's not like, you know, uh we accidentally got hit by disenchantment rays from, you know, somewhere else in the solar system. Uh there was a there was a big disenchantment bomb that went off near the orbit of Mars and it's starting to uh to come in towards us. Uh but this is something that people have done. This is something that you know uh forces both human and almost certainly diabolical have conspired to do is this this act of desecration here. U so what is it then? What is it? Why is it that opposing God right and making let's say human interests and human ego uh the center of everything? Why does that automatically lead to desecration? Well, certainly in our uh cultural heritage of everybody who's likely to be listening to me, you've uh you've got uh Christian heritage, a heritage that's uh uh formed very much by the book of Genesis. book of Genesis that'll say uh you know in the beginning uh God created the heavens and the earth and he created man in his own image and likeness placed him uh in creation to be his legate and representative uh gave him dominion over the earth and um and all of these sorts of things sort of you know kind of basic Christianity there um and if you're if you're going to be opposing you know, that sort of theological view of the universe because you don't want to have, you know, any boundaries placed on your desires or any boundaries uh placed on your uh ego. Um then you have to desecrate holy things. You have to, you know, not simply, you know, reject this as a as an intellectual exercise, but to but to go out and to mock and to destroy um destroy this. It's the only it's the only way they could possibly accomplish their purposes. The people who do this and so you know inevitably with the promotion of these materialistic ways of thinking there is always an opposition to divine things uh which leads to the desecration of human nature. One of the things that he points out in chapter one of his book and one of the ways that this desecration manifests itself is in um you know kind of the destruction of human exceptionalism.
You know you and me baby, we ain't nothing but mammals, right? And uh uh you know we we're just you know particularly intelligent apes and nothing more. that we are the the product of of uh of uh uh blind evolutionary processes and all of that all of that rot that you hear preced us that right there that right there is actually an act of desecration. That right there is uh something that is uh is is deliberately rendering profane what God has created holy. So, um, anyway, I don't have any brilliant thoughts to add to Professor Truman's thesis. Uh, the second I heard about it, it immediately clicked inside of me, I thought that this was a very useful explanation. And so, um, I'm going to encourage you to read a new book if you've got time for it. Maybe just hearing me describe this, you know, you'll have the same sort of clicking sensation uh that this really helps settle things into place. It helps explain oftentimes very evil behavior of people who oppose God and wish to not have any uh any uh uh boundaries uh put on them.
So um that's just what I think. Uh and this is an open mic. Uh you are welcome to come in here and uh help me figure this out. Help me explore uh some of the different ways that uh uh desecration, you know, manifests itself uh in the enemies of God. Um let's uh let's let's have a little discussion here.
And uh I'm quite pleased uh with the way that the semester has begun out here in Washington DC. the uh the weather has not proven too hot and muggy at this point. It's uh it's been relatively pleasant. Um taking a couple courses right now. One of them uh the uh protection of rights in the church talking about hierarchical recourse against administrative decisions. And we're spending a lot of time, you know, talking about uh the difference between administrative and judicial power. uh which was not formally c codified in canon law until 1983. So that's apparently a bit of a development for us. And then also the philosophy and theology of law and uh you know I don't think this is where we're going to end but we're beginning with studying legal positivism and uh with the reading that I've already done. I've decided that legal positivism is just as bad as it's always sounded to me. and uh I want to have nothing do to do with it. Uh sponsor uh for this show, Thomas Aquinus was absolutely right and uh we're going to keep on keeping on with natural law theory.
Uh plus one for the CS Lewis was right count. I mean there was plenty of that.
is that something you know the abolition of man I think is very much uh floating in the background uh of of uh Carl Truman's book uh his uh his reflections on that are uh are uh yeah just just very useful here.
Wonder if uh if people didn't get the memo that we are now in uh Eastern time uh because I don't want to stay up any later than I absolutely have to to run this stream uh because I tend to have early mornings and uh have much to do while I'm out here. So uh we'll uh we'll keep this going. Um yeah. Yeah. So, uh uh Andrew already has a few of his books on his list to read. All right. Yeah.
This is uh this is my first knowing encounter with uh Professor Truman and uh you know that uh it's it's proven to be a a good book and it's you know it's uh it's not like terribly long. 256 pages according to uh according to Amazon here. And so that's uh you know, he's just gonna come in, make a precision strike um and uh uh uh make his point. Hello, Super Classics. Uh welcome to the stream. We do this uh most every Monday and um you know I I pick a topic to start off with but uh it can often wander along and uh yes we do uh try and keep this uh consistent on Mondays although um it's uh the time zone occasionally shifts if I've uh if I've shifted my time zone but for uh the duration of June and July it'll be starting at 7:30 Eastern time and then when I go back home we'll switch back to central time. So, you just got to uh to pay attention and uh yeah, so happy to have you on board and uh you know uh this Streamyard link will bring you in here. I just ask that you have a a webcam on uh because uh people who cause trouble uh often times refuse to turn on a webcam and so just keeping them off the stream is a uh is a uh a useful a useful trick. So So yeah, here we are. Um and uh you know I know that uh friend of the show Mr. Mark Lev is on uh is on vacation and uh might not be able to join us tonight or he forgot about the time zone change which uh and I don't have his stamina. You know he can sit there and he can uh he can rant at the camera for an hour. I don't think they're rants. I think they're actually uh carefully uh uh crafted and staged. Uh but I don't have quite that same stamina. So, I'm going to I'm going to keep this going as uh as long as I think is uh useful. But uh if I don't get uh somebody to talk to uh even uh if only in the uh in the chat, then uh we'll uh we'll end up wrapping it up early because the bed is always calling to me. Um, I had a a rather uneventful uh trip out here. Uh, but you know, a lot of people don't believe me when I say this or maybe they just they don't have any uh any experience with it, but the priesthood is uh is really the uh the best uh fraternity I can uh I can imagine. You know, you're in a a global brotherhood here. that uh you know my trip out here uh Tuesday to Thursday last week uh I think really exemplifies that. Well, I've got a uh a buddy from seminary who uh lives in Hammond, Indiana, and uh he put me up for the night. And then there was a priest I didn't even know but who was a friend of a friend who put me up in his rectory in Pittsburgh. And so, uh, you know, that, uh, that fraternity was, uh, was, uh, very useful. And I suppose you're on the other side of the planet, Andrew, and, uh, you you have to get to your coffee, but I can see it clearly in the photo that you already have a cup of coffee, so uh, you should be ready to go.
Christopher, how you doing?
>> I'm doing all right. Figured I'd jump in and try to help save the stream for for the night. So, >> just put it on to live life support, huh?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
I uh the second I heard this uh this thesis right that that people who are posing this are are doing acts of desecration that that was like that really opened my eyes up to a lot of the uh kind like kind of the ritual aspects we see coming from some of the more extreme corners of the world where they're where they they take all of these uh these you Christian ideas, Christian images, and like, you know, uh, belittle them, you know, mock them.
There was that big thing with the, uh, with the LA Dodgers, with the, uh, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, >> right?
>> Do you remember that news story?
>> I remember that.
>> And it's like, well, okay, why would you even bother? Right? Like like what what's the motivation there?
But um but making uh if if like if you're opposing God then obviously you know you can't actually fight him directly. So the only thing you can do is to desecrate those things that have been uh consecrated uh to him.
So you know I just thought it was a very useful thing. So >> yeah, and along with uh Abolition of Man, that was also um that hideous strength from the uh space sci-fi trilogy had the bits where they're trying to get the main character guy. They say that part of his like educ re-education, whatever, is like actually like desecrating and stamping on images of Christ and other Christian images. So, >> I know CS Lewis wrote both those at like the same time or something. So, but >> yeah. Yeah. Well, that's Boy, now that you say that, it's obvious. Um, National Institute of Coordinated Experiments, uh, >> being the same the same people he was writing about the abolition of man. Uh, yeah.
>> All right. someone who works for the Washington Nationals just got busted for anti-Christian discrimination and inviting that group to the ballpark. Uh I think I saw that story. It's uh you know sometimes things are bad and then every once in a while something nice happens. And it was uh what's his name?
He's from California. He does all of the uh hidden camera videos. Um >> the Project Veraritoss guy. Yeah, the project fairy Toss guy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. O'Keeffe. He uh he was the one who uh you know got some management guy at the nationals talking about how they you know downplayed a Catholic uh pitcher Twitter account or something like that. Um specifically because of the Catholicism, you know, and I'd never heard of this guy. So like congratulations, you just played yourself. Um Right. Yeah.
And yeah, it also brings to mind the uh EK Chesterton quote was uh the two tenants of atheism was there is no God and I hate him.
>> So >> yeah. Yeah. Which is uh it's just puzzling to me. But I guess that's uh that's what happens when you spend too long in uh in his service is that you can't uh you can't figure that out. But um >> Right. Right.
>> You know, it's uh it's like you'll be tempted to think that there's like actually lots of options for going wrong. But a lot of the times you know no matter you know which which which way you're in is whether it's uh pleasure or power or you know status or wealth whichever whichever way uh you begin being tempted. They all they a lot of people just end up in the same place regardless where they're >> they're just kind of you know uh anarctic and uh and deeply selfish. job >> and then you know if you go to hell that's who you get to hang out with for all eternity so you know note well uh be careful >> yeah it's kind of like um our friend Mark liver would say you know might say there these are like certain patterns that you fall into and you can't >> get out of them you know so >> well >> big picture options there.
>> Mhm.
Yeah. With God's grace, of course, uh you know, anything's possible. So, write that down. Uh don't forget about that.
But, uh yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's kind of funny out there.
Have you read anything else good recently?
>> No, I haven't done much reading other things really.
>> Well, you're probably not getting enough sunlight up there, are you?
Well, sunlight we're getting good on now, so it's coming up into the warm, bright time of year.
>> Mhm.
>> But yeah, no, I finished reading The Republic and haven't done much other reading other than trying to keep up on reading the Bible consistently. So, >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's uh it's kind of kind of one of the nice things about uh about being a Catholic and especially about being a Catholic priest is uh I've got two things that I'm obligated to do uh uh regularly. One of them is uh I'm obligated to pray the liturgy of the hours including the office of readings and the other one is I'm obligated to preach consistently. And uh between those two like I get I get a decent dose of scripture every day. Uh >> nice. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, keeps me, uh, keeps me, uh, honest. And speaking of honest, it's honestly nice to have you on the stream, Andrew. Uh, you've been a long time in the comments and, uh, I I don't believe we've ever actually been able to to speak.
>> Perhaps that that might be true.
Nice to see you.
>> Yeah.
>> So, are you still on the other side of the world?
Um I I am for two more months.
So this is >> okay.
>> End of July I'll be back in the US hanging out.
>> Okay.
>> Uh oh yeah that's better. Maybe not actually but yeah. So, another two months and my time in after five years in Korea, I'll be done. So, >> well, there's no place like home, that's for sure.
>> Yeah, it's uh it it will be interesting to return to uh the US. I've I'm I'm not sure what home is at this point. So the uh I've heard from a few people who've gone back that the reverse culture shock is real.
And >> the reverse culture shock, huh?
>> Yeah. Yeah. The uh I think it can be a little difficult to adjust to America when you've been gone for several years. So >> yeah, I remember now I was I was only overseas for two years but you know I I lived for uh uh lived in Norway for two years when I was in uh elementary school. My dad got stationed there and I I couldn't wait to get back. I was I was pretty done on Norway. Um, and uh, so but I was also a lot younger and probably just more flexible and adaptable in general. Uh, so maybe that uh, that accounted for it. But uh, you know, yeah. Anyway, that was the way I felt. I I think I actually kissed the ground when we landed in Minneapolis.
So, I mean that that's how I felt when I came back from a year and a half deployment to Afghanistan when I was in my early 20s, but uh now it's a little bit different. I've I've been back to visit for like holidays occasionally and um you know there's like an element of familiarity but then there's a lot of just weirdness like I've it it's probably a little bit different being in Asia versus like being in Europe or something because I've gotten quite accustomed to things functioning here.
Uh this is a very a relatively highly ordered society and when I as soon as I land in an American airport I become keenly aware of how dysfunctional the United States is by comparison. So >> it's >> I mean that's the thing I noticed like during the pandemic was you know not only like when you would see snapshots from Korea or China or Japan it wasn't just that everybody was wearing a mask but everybody had like the exact same mask on >> you know whereas like pretty quickly um uh pretty quickly in America, people had like all their custom masks on to uh to show that. So >> yeah, it's it's like that in other ways too here. It's interesting because I I moved here during the pandemic and so I went from America like you know where Montana was like kind of wide open and then other parts of America were completely shut down and I experienced both and then I came here and everything was open but there were everyone was basically doing the same things and they were taking it very seriously here And at the time it it's funny because I my my wife was telling me like, you know, the reason why they took it so seriously here from the very beginning was that they're so close to China. And so they're just expecting it. Like they've been they went through uh what was it?
SARS. The original SARS. And so like they're they're like they're basically the government is essentially on standby at all times waiting for the next virus to leak out of China.
Um so it's like so for you know for people in the US they're like ah that's never going to come here right but for them here they're like oh no we know how this works. Um so like they were actually they would they were distributing masks like I can't remember what it was like two per person per week or something the like K94s. And then um my wife was trying to she tried to send me some uh at the time and they wouldn't let her like they would like stop you from putting them in the mail uh to preserve their own supply in Korea and everything. So um yeah, but it but then I got here I went through the whole like quarantine process and everything and then you know the testing and every like you could get a test like you could just walk down to the corner and get a test.
Like I remember when they couldn't get tests in America, you know, you could get the the real tests if you wanted one and then if you wanted like the little quick ones, you just go down to the convenience store, five bucks and just buy whatever. So um yeah, f five years of of that. Um, you know, regardless of how you feel about the whole thing, just just the fact that like things were so orderly here and like functional and there were no delays. There was no like, oh, what are we going to do? You know, it's like people, they had a plan. Um, and there's sort of like Americans have this like suspicion of government, you know, like all the government's trying to control us. And I totally understand it. Like there's reasons for that. Um, but and I don't know how much you know about the history of Korea, South Korea specifically, but like they it wasn't that long ago this country was like run by a dictator. And so, you know, after it democratized and everything, it the the government sort of took on this like very like benevolent quality like, okay, we don't want to do authoritarianism anymore. We're very much here to help you. So that's why like the relationship people here have with the cops is like the cops are very just like polite and helpful and you know they're not they don't berate people and whatever.
They're just they're they they call them like the they're like the they're like a cane you know they're there to help you get around you know and assist you. So >> um so people don't have that same suspicion of their own government until the the martial law attempt recently which was a whole another >> isn't it?
>> I thought I I thought I had heard that like every president of South Korea for the past 20 or 30 years or whatever had ended up uh ended up in jail at the end of their term.
>> Yeah, that's true. That is true. Um, yeah, they all end up going to jail for corruption or something. Um, in fact, I just we just saw Parkh just got like released or something. We saw her, she was out and she was like campaigning for her old political party and everyone was shocked. They're like, "What is going on? I thought she's supposed to be in jail for the rest of her life." So, um, but yeah, I was here for that, too. I was here I was here back in 2016 when they impeached her. There were millions of people in the streets protesting. It was it was wild to see. And then um and then I lived through the the recent Yune declaring martial law like getting woken up at like whatever it was like 2 a.m. You know, can you believe this? Like you know, my family's contacting me. What's going on?
I don't know.
some guy declaring martial law and he said he did it all for love, you know, they were going after his wife for something. So they wanted they're trying to go after his wife of corruption or something and so he the courts were corrupt so he was declared martial law >> that idea. I I kind of like this arresting the president after their term for any corrupt all the corrupt things they did while in office. That's that sounds like a good idea to >> first. Yeah, I've I've been here for the removal of two presidents. So, um yeah, I think Munjay in who preceded you, he he's like the first president to leave office and not have some scandal, not get in prison for for some crime. So, he's he's living peacefully in retirement now. Um Yeah, >> we can put that with my other idea of uh having uh people in Congress have boxing m matches with each other and maybe replace the filibuster with that or something if you want to >> do that.
>> If you want to filibuster this bill, you got to go into the ring.
>> Yeah, something like that. this >> I I I wish we'd get I wish American politics would look less like uh the WWE in the future, but um you know, at least Korean politics for me, it's somewhat entertaining. It doesn't it hasn't affected my life in too many ways uh negatively. So, but interesting nonetheless.
>> All right. uh AP, he's got uh uh a good way to nerd snipe me here. Uh talking about canon law all of a sudden.
This is a this is a really wild thing.
So, you know, Pope Francis amended some of the canon law regarding religious life in uh I think it was 2023, right?
So, right right near the very end of it.
and uh he uh it was something about uh procedure for dismissing members from a religious institute. And that's uh that's a very serious kind of thing. You know, if you're dismissed from a religious institute, uh you're no longer in there and uh they no longer have to support you. So, it's it's a pretty high level bar. Um and it only gave um you know uh ways of uh of the superiors along with the council to to do this for autonomous monasteries.
It didn't didn't include any uh any way for uh any mechanisms for removing a problematic uh superior, you know, an abbot or an abbis or something like that. And then there was that whole uh absolutely wild story from Fort Worth, Texas, uh with allegations of uh of the Mother Superior, you know, using drugs and all of that sort of thing. And now some of them have gone off into schism.
Uh very sad. And so now we're amending uh canon 699 where the diosis and bishop can intervene in the life of a uh of a so-called autonomous monastery uh in case of you know uh severe uh bad behavior. So uh I wonder how much of that uh new can is in response to uh that particular story. So, so yeah, uh that's the first change to Canon Law and uh uh basically everybody I've I've listened to who's who's educated about these things uh say that it's a it's filling a hole in the law.
It's not, you know, legislating needlessly, but there was uh there was a hole that needed to be patched. Uh and so so now we're doing this, but that means that my uh my printed code of canon law is now further out of date.
So, Yeah. And you're in your last bit of schooling in DC, you said this year, right?
>> Yep. Yep. I've got uh two classes here in June. I've got one class in July. I need to finish my thesis. And I need to uh need to uh pass comps. And I need to do all of that by the end of July. So, uh, hopefully we're able to, uh, to make this all work.
>> Eric, Esquire, >> and then you'll be an official JCL >> JCL.
Uh, Yuri Konichi Lentier.
So, a license in canon law. The lenti is a uh is a level uh a degree that only exists in the pontipical system between a master's and a doctorate. So so yeah obviously obviously we have our own degrees that we can give people.
It's just we invented the universities so we have our own degrees.
>> That makes sense. Yeah, very cool.
Hello, Jim.
>> Hello.
Long time no see, father.
>> Yes. Yes. Uh, welcome back to the uh uh welcome back to the live stream.
>> Yeah, you're going into summer. I'm or we're going into winter.
Mhm.
>> That's what you get for being on the bottom of the globe.
>> It's got its positives and negative things, I suppose. Yeah. I'm I'm very happy. Um my son has arrived last Friday from London.
The eldest son and um with his fiance.
So they're here in Sydney. Actually, they're up the coast at the moment, wine country. So, I'm very happy for him. That's his fiance. She's Irish, as I said before, but anyway. So, I'm enjoying him. I haven't seen him for a couple of years.
>> Well, that's great news. That's great news to uh Is >> Go ahead. Sorry.
Is is the wedding going to be in uh Ireland, England, or Australia?
>> Well, $64,000 question. My other son is getting married here in Sydney. He's got his uh I've got three boys.
And the reason he's he came over, it's his birthday actually.
And so it's I do not know the answer to that question but my other son is getting married in January no February next year and they actually are seeing the priest etc etc here in Sydney.
More traditional priest not >> nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that at all as far as I'm concerned. You know, >> he's he's a lovely priest actually. He's from Philippines. He's a beautiful man.
>> But to my liking, you know what? You know how I am very conservative prevatican to you know don't like this this now I'm getting into danger. All right, I'm gonna go there. I'll shut up.
>> You know, you know, it's it's a it's perfectly fine. It's perfectly fine to uh to have an appreciation for old things. Uh >> in fact, around here, we should be encouraging that, you know, as far as I'm concerned. Uh respect for uh tradition, the democracy of the dead, and uh and uh all of that. So, uh yeah, that's great. That's great. Two weddings in uh in uh 2027, it sounds like. That's uh that's very blessing. It's very blessing. Well, >> God willing. Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> I've taken over. Please. I'm in.
>> No, no, no. It's uh you know, the conversation drifts uh uh where it needs to. But uh we started off uh the live stream uh talking about a book that I'm reading by uh Professor Carl Truman uh called um uh The Desecration of Man. And uh you know the thesis of this is that if you're going to uh uh oppose God and uh and uh uh place yourself against uh his natural law, his ordering of the universe. Uh what you necessarily end up doing is uh is desecrating the image of God on earth. Uh that being human beings. And you know you could do that in lots of different ways. It can it could be kind of a a Darwinistic reduction of man to the status of an animal or you know uh transgenderism where we just consider our bodies to be Legos that we can uh rearrange however we like or the flip side of that uh transhumanism where you know uh we're going to expand our capacities by uh melding into machines or something like that. So uh I just I just found that uh that thesis uh explained a lot of behavior that uh is uh oftentimes very disturbing you know so >> so if you had anything you wanted to say about that.
>> Well I haven't read the in I think it was the encyclical by the pope on AI just recently but I didn't have a chance of looking at it. I don't know whether any of you had a chance of reading it.
No, I spent most of the last week in in a car uh driving uh so I could get here.
So I I didn't have uh I don't have a Tesla, so the car won't drive itself. So I had to hands on the wheel and uh and take care of it.
>> Have uploaded the text to AI and had it read it to you while you were driving.
>> I suppose that's possible. expose that pot. Why couldn't we get uh why couldn't we get like uh some Catholic actor to to read it though, you know?
>> I did see.
>> Is Peter Oul still alive? He must be. He can't be alive anymore.
>> I don't think so.
>> He showed up at all sorts of uh Yeah. Yeah. He's He's been gone for a while. He showed up in all sorts of saints movies. That's why I thought of him.
>> Yeah. Richard Richard Lawrence of Arabia. What's his other famous? Oh, um Henry, I think Henry VII or something, wasn't it?
>> One historical sort of movies. Yeah.
>> But he also showed up in, you know, the the the movie on uh St. Damian of Malachi, you know, it's like >> Yeah. what's Peter Oul doing in a you know a movie that was cranked out for probably about $300,000 and it's like well he was very pious and it was about a saint and he probably took a uh a pay cut to uh to have a little bit part in that. So um yeah that's why I thought of him. But uh you know maybe we could get Mark Wahlberg to uh to read the new encyclical. He's he's a good Catholic.
Is is he a a recent convert, isn't he?
Wasn't that >> No, he uh Mark Wahlberg, he grew up Catholic. And I'll tell you what I love about Mark Wahlberg, right?
>> Is I don't really know what he thinks about anything.
And that's exactly what I want uh out of my Catholic actors in Hollywood, right?
you'll say, you know, uh, when I've got the time, and I often do, I'll stop by a Catholic church on my way to the studio and and I'll take a few minutes in prayer in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and then I'll go on with my day. And it's like, perfect, perfect.
That's that's what we want to hear from you, man. That's that's exactly uh the right um the right uh that's the kind of signal that he's qualified to give. basic advice that everybody could uh could benefit from hearing. Um, so so I like Mark Mark Wahberg. I know he doesn't have a whole lot of range as an actor, but you know, he's uh Yeah.
Now, apparently apparently the Mormons are complaining that AI models are biased towards Catholicism.
uh and uh you know I suppose if these AI models are properly tuned and properly uh you know trained and all of the different technical aspects about you know uh having the mathematics all interact uh with each other then then even they might be able to pick up on you know the truth of Catholicism that's embedded in our uh our language. Um, but it's just not old enough to get, you know, entrenched in the data.
>> Or or would it be too trollish to suggest that even AI can't elucinate Mormonism?
>> I mean, >> very nice people, very silly beliefs.
H there was some somebody or when I think it was CHBT was just released somebody I can't remember who but I saw they went online they they asked it to give the most likely Christianity and it it went through all the ev and it came up with Catholicism and I remember thinking oh that's kind of funny I just expected I didn't expect that to happen. I thought, you know, CHBT would have given you, oh, none of these are there's no evidence for any of these or whatever. But it actually gave a very very sound logical arguments for why most likely, if any, if you're trying to pick between all the different versions of Christianity, the the one that's most likely true, >> which is interesting. Like I kind of wish Mark was here to give us a technical explanation about how that might happen. But you know the the cool thing about Catholicism is that you can find you know Catholic writings in just about every language imaginable, right?
You know, so uh certainly all of the major European languages are going to have Catholic writing and Catholic theology. you're going to have Latin, you know, so it'll be trained on a lot of uh Latin. And then uh and as far as I know in training these these big uh LLMs, they put every piece of human written media they can possibly get their hands on into them in order to to make it work properly. So um I mean obviously I think the Catholic Church is uh is true but uh but just like it might just be a matter of the sheer volume of data in there coherent coherent data as well right so it would reinforce certain connections over and over again in the uh in the matrix of uh of relationships uh versus extremely you get very fragmented signals out of Protestantism because there's at least 40 different types of major branches of Protestantism.
So, they can't they can't have a a coherent signal um in that. So, anyway, that's just me thinking out loud. Uh reminder that I I only kind of know how these things work. So >> yeah, I can't imagine a computer model likes the disunityity of the systems of Protestantism, I suppose.
So >> is is >> I should ask why Calvary Chapel or something like that?
Well, the as I said earlier, I think many occasions, it's been what about 500 years since the Reformation and they still call themselves Protestants.
You think about it.
>> Now, there there are certain American evangelicals that reject the title Protestants. They'll say, "No, I'm just a Christian." And there's at least a a coherence in that. Uh >> well well >> actually father do you want to hear something real quick about that you so when I I was raised in like evangelical non-denominationalism whatever we dang I would have said protestant what's that like I didn't even know it was from the word protest so but when I was in the army and I had to deploy they give you like dog tags ID tags right and it has your name your social security number it has your religion on it. I had to choose from a list and I was looking for like Christian or whatever and it does did not exist. So they're all, you know, you know the major denominations, right?
They're all there. The only thing I could find that fit sort of was Protestant hyphen no denomination. And so that's what I picked. And it always bothered me. I was like, what is this?
This isn't what I am. And I think it was maybe one of the earliest like real seeds that was planted in my mind that like maybe something's wrong with what I'm in. So um but I I always thought that was funny that like I would never call myself a Protestant, but the army forced me to be a Protestant to call myself one.
>> Yeah. I mean there is the uh that's fun.
There is the Baptist uh talking point that we were like the real church that in the Catholic church like was a like like we actually kept Christ teachings all the way back. The Catholic church reared off and did their own weird Roman stuff but I never I and therefore we weren't Protestants because we didn't protest against the Catholic Church. we were, you know, outside of it from the beginning. But that always sounded to me like we're just, okay, we're just the hipster Protestants now. And like we were anti-atholic before it was cool. So >> Mhm.
>> that was my read on the whole thing. But >> yeah. Yeah.
But on that point as you father you said there's approximately about 40 denominations Protestants or inverted >> major like major families of it right like when you hear that you know >> and all that. Yeah.
>> When you hear that that talking point about the 40,000 different denominations. The way they get to that number is they count every non-denominational church as its own denomination, >> which on one hand is like, okay, I guess you could see how you would get there, you know, but on the other hand, it's not what people mean by denominations when they're talking. And um most of those non-denominational Baptist or I went and did it. Most of those non-denominational churches are some flavor of Baptist anyway. So, so you could justifiably, you know, clump them in with the Baptist tradition and then your numbers go way down at that point and and you can you can, you know, so 40 40 is still way too many. You know, I'm all about that one holy, Catholic, and apostolic church.
Um, but uh you know, there's no need to uh >> to use unfair rhetoric, I think, uh when >> you could just win on the facts. So, >> but but isn't that >> Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
>> Oh, no. I was just going to say I think but isn't being being some flavor of Baptist does not prevent them from splitting very like so I was in one of those churches and it was not very big and it split in two over disagreements.
And so like while it might be somewhat unfair, it in some ways it is sort of accurate because the I mean you had one church they were some flavor of Baptist and then because of a disagreement about something they now want nothing to do with each other and I I sort of think like well okay they would again they're going to they're going to pro they're going to say no we're not in a denomination we're non-denominational but now you two non denoms, you know, that want nothing to do with each other. I'm like, okay, well, what is that? You're just a standalone church. You're you're not affiliated with anyone. So, I don't know how we I mean, how how should we categorize um well, there's no unity there. Um but because if they if they believe fundamentally the same things, it's like, well, why don't you guys just get back together? They were like, oh no, we would never do that.
So I'm not sure what to do with those.
>> Right. That's my my thesis from a Protestant land here is that the Protestant us Protestants are just like margin or fringe Christianity.
And so we can go all kinds of ways and also spiral into the Gnostic, pagan, heretical cults around hippie Jesus, which is also a problem. It definitely looks like that from outside the United States more so even though it's like mainstream in America now from from abroad. I'm like wow this is not really a thing in most places around the world.
This is very unique to the United States. So >> yeah I mean that's where all of the uh radical reformation energy ended up was going into the United States. you know, the uh the uh Menanites and the the Quakers and the Hutterites, uh all of that came from that very, you know, uh radical reformation. Uh they didn't get any any governments to support them. So, they had to go out onto the frontier where there was no government and they were just kind of allowed to do what they want. And uh you know, success success has varied. Um you know, the Amish seem to be doing all right. uh they they might have uh uh might have made a good call on uh absolutely forbidding certain technologies like that might uh that might have benefited them uh enormously. Um, so, uh, so that's interesting. But, uh, but yeah, all of that radical reformation energy ended up here, uh, in the United States, which is why, you know, kind of early on it was, uh, the congregationalists were dominant, especially in New England. Um, and that's kind of like the the typically American form there. And then later on the Episcopalians came over with the money and uh and started and started running the place. Uh and then the Catholics started showing up in droves and uh and things got spicy. So uh but yeah. Yeah. That upstate New York district >> other than the Catholics that had already come over with the Spanish and done their thing. But >> Sure. Sure. But it took a while for those parts to actually become America.
So, >> right.
>> And that uh you know, I don't know how much the uh average American voter was concerned about what was going on in California in New Mexico circa 1860, 1870. Like it was just so far away from everything else that ah they might have a bunch of Catholics there.
Well, I heard that the uh SpanishAmerican War when that happened was very much understood at the time to be a Protestant versus Catholic war.
>> Oh, okay.
>> That was a >> that was like 1899, right?
I I forget the dates, but this is I >> Young Teddy Roosevelt. Young Teddy Roosevelt leading uh troops into battle and the uh annexation of the Philippines, right? That was the SpanishAmerican War.
>> That's right.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Jim says so. I believe him.
>> No. Oh god. Now uh the problem I which I have uh with Protestantism not problem is no it's the wrong expression uh the the issues I probably have is Protestants are much much better versed in the Bible. They know their Bible back to front literally literally you know chapter verse but I'm generalizing >> now as I see the problem and it's in a solos scriptura basically if you you know the Bible is your um connection to God okay you do not need the hierarchy papacy the priests etc. And the problem is in interpretation. I think >> as I mentioned, I think I mentioned it on many occasions on this stream is each person when they read their Bible or whatever chapter or any any sort of literature uh uh has in you know it conjures up in their mind certain images that's part of words. If I say a word and everybody um has different meaning. A good example would be a contemporary example would be 40 50 years ago 1950s and 60s even early 70s saying the word gay to an elderly gentleman now in their 80s or 90s would mean being happy. Now if you say a word gay to a normal person it conjures up different images and that's part of ethmology the the the source of the words and and and Protestantism all these splinter groups as I see it is I don't like what your interpretation therefore I'll go down the road and open up my own congregation thus 40,000 plus and increasing So if so if if I put that in a sort of a perspective I would ask myself as a Protestant I would say look there's something rotten in the state of Denmark to to quote Shakespeare or how come all of these people are claiming to have a direct connection via the Bible to the Almighty Jesus.
Again, I'm not a theologian by any stretch of imagination. Again, I I very very poor in theology.
Uh but just common sense, that's what I'm putting forward in in every man's language. I would I even if you're an atheist or agnostic, not a Catholic, I would say, well, there's this institution called Catholicism, for better or for worse, it's got its nasty history. It's got its good history. I mean, universities we have, it's a Catholic invention of the 10th century, 11th centuries. Thank to the church. I mean, different times. I'm not going to brag about it, but what I'm getting at at at the current point, especially America being a Protestant country, is I would question as a as an impartial person, it don't have to be a Catholic or a Protestant. Uh I would question the whole idea uh whether it is a true church by virtue that I as an individual with free will uh can determine and I can claim to be right and the Catholics rely on our history, culture and magisterium 2,000 years.
Whether it's good or bad that's a different issue, different topic. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm sort of just trying to be impartial in in this sort of historical sense.
Sorry, my phone is going off.
Uh I can I can I I will have to disconnect for five seconds. I got to answer this.
Uh >> we'll take you We'll take you back when you're ready, Jim. Don't worry about it.
Uh some people, you know, it's tomorrow for him, so we he he might have to work. Uh >> yeah. Yeah, Christopher, you're kind of you're kind of the minority here. You're surrounded by Catholics right now. So, uh >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fine.
I will I will say as a former Protestant that I don't you know I think when you're if you you know I I read um Carlos's book Reformations which is like that thick and it's fascinating. I it's it's an amazing book and I really didn't understand the reformation or reformations because they were all happening simultaneously, right? And um you know what I think what Jim's talking about it's a great question great great thing to pose to like the people at the time in that were and obviously there was a lot going on there politics and all sorts of things but um you know as a young person I just believed what I was told by my parents right and so I believed all the things I was told about you know Catholics are going to hell they worship Mary and the saints and their superstitious and they, you know, pope is the antichrist, you know, like all the crazy stuff. You know, I never thought it would could could have possibly been untrue except for the fact that half of my family was Catholic and so it was like, wait, grandma and grandpa and my aunts and uncles and my cousins like I don't know, >> but they seem so nice.
>> Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, it that like so obviously and you know, probably that's part of the reason why it didn't last into my 40s, right? Um, but for a lot of people, I think that's all they've ever known. You can go back generations and, you know, well, my family's been Protestant for 500 years and it's just been handed down. And I you could say the same of Catholics too who I don't know their catechism or their Bible. It's just been handed down to them. They ask them why are you Catholic? They don't I think most of us don't really think about it's just what we're born into. You know >> unless you have a unless you have like a you know a come to Jesus moment where you're like oh I have to actually sit down and think about what do I believe which is what happened to me. Um you're probably not going to think too critically about it. um you know and it's you know whatever Protestantism specifically I mean American evangelical protest Protestantism is just the the water you're swimming in as a fish in America and so it's not something you're going to think too critically about but uh but then you know you but then when you do you have to actually think about it with an open mind as opposed to like you know oh I don't I'm thinking of it as if I'm defend defending the thing that I was raised at, you know. Um, which is >> which is that that was, you know, I went through that phase too of like, no, no, no, these people are wrong. I just have to defend as opposed to like, you know, like when I went to university, I was I knew I can't be open-minded. These people are going to try and corrupt me, you know? Whereas had I been a little more open-minded, I probably would have learned something um had my own ideas challenged. But >> Mhm.
>> Yeah. And >> I think that's a it's an interesting thing. Another thing that maybe could have been a uh a candidate for the opening rant this uh evening was um you know one of the ways that you can tell that a society is starting to get into trouble is that if the only way you can thrive is by being exceptional.
Like if your society is uh is operating the way it should, that being just kind of like really, you know, and I'll say this in the best way possible, really simple about how you're living your life, that that's actually a sign that your societyy's working really well. you know that like you've got this path and for most everybody you just hop on the path you do what everybody else is doing and that is going to uh that is going to make your life run smoothly right so you know what would this look like well you've got these career opportunities and then you know you'll get married you'll have a home you'll have a family and you might participate in these sorts of organizations or Maybe you participate in these sorts of organizations, but you'll probably be drawn to something, some sort of useful engagement and uh and and here's your religion, everybody in the towns that religion and uh and you could just go about your life and live simply like that's actually a really good place for a society to be in when it provides that sort of guidance, right? And in another, you know, live stream, I've I've pointed out how the only, you know, universal guidance we can really give people that's going to work is most people should get married and uh and have families. Um I'm an exceptional person, right? And and like really, if your society's functioning properly, if you're going to be an exceptional person, that's going to be harder.
And that's and that's fine. uh like exceptional people are just going to have to are just going to have to like deal with the additional challenges of not just doing what everybody else does.
Um, but if the only, so if you're living in a society where only exceptional people are really able to thrive and do well, uh, which I think is is kind of what we're we're bumping up against right now, you know, kind of your standard cultural guidance for people is just corrupt and depraved, you know, and and and fighting against that is is is making you kind of exceptional. It's just a sign of things not going well there. Um, so I'm sure that related to something that you had said, Andrew, uh, but I I can't remember how I got off on that tangent. Um, maybe, you know, what it is is is we shouldn't be putting people in a position where they have to question, you know, what their parents told them about how the world works.
>> Anyway, that'd be nice.
>> I have to interject. I have to go. Um, work calls. Uh, enjoy your stream.
Unfortunately, I cannot listen or participate. Uh but I'll have to finish on a note. The beauty of Catholicism as I said is take up your cross and run with it.
>> Be a very heavy cross and it's not you know those uh evangelical people. All you need to do is you know you Jesus saves just believe in Jesus. No, no. To me, Christianity, in particular, Catholicism is very, very challenging and it's getting used to the hard yaka facing life, preparing us eventually.
Sorry work calls. Thank you very much.
We'll catch up on another occasion.
Thank you. Bye.
>> You take care, Jim. Good to see you.
Yeah. So, be nice if we had good uh good uh guidance for the normies, but uh here we are. Year of our Lord 2026. You're uh >> well, >> you're given all sorts of everything.
>> Well, I mean, in a lot of times today, people don't want to be normies, which is a separate problem.
M so >> yeah you know honestly now that I am where I am it's like if you can manage it being a normie is a good thing makes your life way simpler I can't manage it though I must over complicate things >> well hopefully it's following God and not you like >> making things complicated yourself so I I think it is. I think it is. Uh, as far as I can tell, I'm I don't know. The bishops seem to think I should be a priest. So, you know, >> uh, Father Eric, I have several very hot and spicy topics to ask you about, but >> Sure. Let's go for it. I'm going to leave first. I have to tell I have to tell everybody who's watching on my channel, I am taking this off. So, you have to go to Father Eric's channel and watch this very interesting discussion.
And while you're there, you should subscribe and hit the thumbs up button.
So if you want to watch this very interesting discussion uh I put the link in in the chat father Eric sites channel. Okay so there we go and I'm going to take it off so that they have to come here. Okay that was the first okay I have so many questions for you father. Okay.
>> Um, first question. Uh, I went to a Catholic wedding. It was my first Catholic wedding.
Um, and, uh, my big question that I had leading up to it is, what do you think is proper preparations?
Like what should a devout Catholic be doing the day before they approach, you know, the altar for such a thing?
>> Oh gosh, nobody's ever asked me that before. Um, >> even observed.
>> Yeah, nobody's nobody's ever asked me about that. Um, even even the pious the pious weddings I've done. Um, >> nobody's ever asked me about that. I think uh I think what ends up happening is people have a thousand details they need to arrange uh before that. But boy, if I uh if I had my my way uh and I and people wanted to hear my guidance, I'd say that uh the day before your wedding, you and uh your family and friends should come to the church for a holy hour and we'll have a couple priests ready to go for confession. Uh that would be that would be the best uh that would just make my heart sing if somebody did that. So >> well I mean I I assumed since it's a mass it's a wedding mass that you you should go to confession before it but I I I didn't know.
>> So um the Catholic practice is a little different than the Orthodox practice. I know there are certain Orthodox churches that have, you know, it's like every time you go to communion, you have to go to confession and and there's there's certainly a pedigree for that. So, I'm I'm not going to dispute that practice there. Uh but uh the Catholic confession is that or the Catholic practice is that um if you're conscience of grave sin, you should avoid communion. Uh other than that, you're free to go as long as you've um done the frankly very easy to accomplish fasting ahead of time. So, >> uh so it would not be it would not be necessary. I know I know some of uh some of the weddings I've done there they have, you know, the couple has uh made arrangements to go to confession either to me or to uh to somebody else. And that's uh that's great. And I I think that'd be a really good thing to do. Uh it wouldn't strictly be required. You know, if they did it in the a couple weeks preceding the wedding, that'd be okay. But I think a confession would be a great way to start.
>> Okay. Um yeah. Uh we we have a tradition to to fast and uh I mean to say a confession. There's there's actually a long confession a lot of people say before but we don't have going to confession but um okay so that that was my question about the wedding um there um some of the wedding guests I noticed were talking after communion and one of them's like why didn't you go to communion the other one's like well I'm not Catholic and he's like oh well I'm Baptist I went like I don't think you were supposed to do that.
So >> yeah, at weddings at weddings if I think there's going to be a lot of non-atholics there, I'll give a little, you know, hey, here's how things work here.
>> Okay, >> I'll do that at funerals, too. Um, so yeah, God have mercy. I I mean it he he he was he was doing it very you know it's like fellow Christians we do communion they do communion so I'm going to go to you know >> but um so it it was it I I think it was certainly innocent but yeah I uh I was wondering about that.
>> Um so >> I want to ask you about the papel encyclical but I want to ask you about encyclicals as well. Did you read the the encyclical everyone is talking about?
>> I have not. I've I've read some uh reliable commentary, but I spent uh most of LA last week in my car driving here and so I didn't have the opportunity to uh to sit down and read it. I think some of the key uh quotes that I've seen, you know, talking about uh uh the nature of AI and I I just really appreciated, you know, the way they they wrote about that. It you know, matches my experience with these tools and uh what friend of the show Mark Lev is has taugh me about them um and and and how they work. Uh so so there's that, but I haven't I haven't had a chance to uh dig into it uh the way I I I might have uh might have if I hadn't if it hadn't just dropped last week, which was just perfect timing for me.
>> Okay. So now I I want to ask you about encyclicals and actually bulls as well.
I've I've heard of encyclicals. I've heard of bulls, but like as a Catholic priest, do you have some sort of obligation to read bulls and encyclicals or is it an expectation or h? Yeah. So, there's there isn't like a strict obligation for any of that. Um, you know, if uh especially, you know, there's the pope's talking about all sorts of stuff all the time. you know, he'll give an address to this or that group and and nobody's expected to keep up with all of that unless like you're his secretary or something. Um uh but with an encyclical, you know, that is a teaching document for the whole church. And so it's uh it's uh it's good to be able to uh to read these things >> and uh you know take the uh the teaching office that uh that uh the successor of St. Peter has seriously. Uh so I do hope to be able to uh you know maybe I'll download it on my Kindle. I'm actually going to have to travel back to Fargo and uh and uh be the master of ceremonies for our ordinations this weekend. So I get to arrive in DC, run back to Fargo, and then run back. So I'll have some time on the airplane, and that'd be a good time for me to uh to sit down and read it. I could put it on my Kindle. That wouldn't be too hard. So, uh, so yeah. Um, now paper bull, that's a that's a that's kind of an older style of document that doesn't get used very much anymore. Um, so you know, you'll get a paper bowl for announcing a jubilee year. Uh, and like that's the only context that comes to mind when I I I hear that uh if you're doing something with canon law, you're much more likely to get a apostolic constitution or a moto proprio or rescript uh um those sorts of uh documents which have varying shades of technical meaning and and it's not necessarily going to be all that interesting. though.
>> Okay. Um, >> and you know what? I I I will say one little opinion here is that if they made these things a little bit shorter, more people would read them.
>> Like a fivepage encyclical, five page encyclical, lots of people would read that. You know, when we're up to when we're up to 90 pages, it's like this is getting to be a bit of a slog here.
>> Is that how long this this encyclical is? I I haven't seen it. People lots of people Apparently Jonathan Pou and John Vervi both read it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting how much of a a splash this encyclical has made um in the wider uh in the wider discourse here uh like I saw this video of it was just like uh it was like a Tik Tok or whatever. Uh, and it was like we're getting the girlies together and we're going to read the Pope's new encyclical, you know, and they were like sitting on the porch and had their drinks and they were just, you know, going over it. I'm like, and and just kind of kind of having fun with it.
But like apparently that sort of thing's actually happening and that, you know, like how often does anybody read what the Pope writes, you know? So this is uh it's really interesting. It's really interesting the um the attention this is getting like like the ah I got it all like um as far as I can tell uh what going on is that the pope managed to say what everybody was thinking.
Did Did we lose >> Streamyard?
>> Is I hope not.
>> I think it was your connection.
>> Am I back?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't I uh I don't have uh uh Ethernet connection here. So, I just got to put up with the Wi-Fi. So, anyway, what I had intended to say is that I what I think is going on is the Pope is saying what everybody's thinking and that's why it's and it's a true thing and it's something that people needs to be said. It's like >> don't listen to the people who are telling you that this is going to replace all workers ever. uh because those people are the ones who are selling you the product. And well, maybe maybe that's just a little bit of marketing, you know, like maybe this isn't actually the world's greatest chocolate.
>> Okay, now I'm going to get hot and spicy. Uh, I need a Canon lawyer for this because for years I have been following the whole SSPX thing >> and apparently it's due to explode once again and uh not being a Canon lawyer and not knowing which Canon lawyers are actually people you could trust. Um, so how much credibility like h how real is this idea that the excommunication lets what whatever it's called like is actually doesn't apply because this is necessity like I've heard the arguments but like >> okay >> are these arguments like which ones actually hold moderator.
>> I don't hold to the uh state of necessity arguments, right? I think that's uh and it's just it's set up so perfectly for us. Do you remember that scene from The Office when uh Michael declares bankruptcy?
>> Okay, >> I declare bankruptcy.
>> Yeah, >> it's that's that's sort of what you're doing, right? is uh is, you know, I declare that there's a state of emergency and now I can do whatever I want, you know, and just you're not going to be able to run a church on that. You're not going to be able to run anything on that when anybody for any reason whatsoever can declare a state of emergency and obey or disobey every direct order from a legitimate superior that they get. It's just like, you know, there could be genuine states of emergency that would allow things, right? So, if there was like a big nuclear war and we lost contact with the Vatican for 30 years, you know, like we would just start electing our own bishops and and having them consecrated and running our dascese, right? And and that wouldn't be in accord with canon law, but there would be a real state of emergency right there. So, you know, uh but not this. I I I don't I don't buy that at all.
>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, it seems to me like the Pope is telling you don't do this and it's like as far as I understand it, ordaining bishops or consecrating bishops is like the number one way in which the pope exercises authority.
So >> yeah. Yeah, it's actually and that's that's a a relatively recent historical phenomenon kind of 19th century. Um, and but I really do think that is his most effective way of governing is like, you know, personnel is policy here and you could certainly, you know, canon law and legislation and that sort of thing has an effect, but like you know, the guys you're picking to run the dascese, they're the ones who are going to really be able to to to move things there. And so, um, that's, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's important. That's important.
>> So, that's why it's it's so so, you know, uh, consecrating a bishop without a papal mandate is so like taken so seriously.
>> But, but you said it's it's kind of new.
Like, did they used to choose their own bishops and stuff or >> Yeah. So in the very early centuries of the church, the presbytors would elect a bishop. Um and then uh lots of continued for quite a long time um in uh uh lots of Europe. You had the uh a group of priests at every cathedral called the cannons of the cathedral. And they uh lots of places they had the right to either elect the um uh in the middle ages I'm talking about uh they had the right either to elect the uh uh bishop or to present candidates. They had a right of presentation. Um and then uh in lots of places the uh the secular princes uh acquired a right of presentation. Um, but it was actually Napoleon who kind of who kind of swept the board clean with a lot of this stuff because he he deposed so many princes.
And then when things were getting, you know, put back together at the end of the Napoleonic Wars, it's like, well, there's there's nobody left. We're just going to let the pope, you know, pick them. But there's still a few places uh especially in in in older you know older parts of Europe where you'll still have you know uh they they still have these uh chapters of cathedral cannons uh who have a right of presentation. They can pick three names and send them to the pope. The pope can pick one of those names. Um we don't have any of that here in the United States of America. They explicitly decided not to have the chapters of cathedral cannons. So, um, uh, yeah, it's all it's all free conferral here. So, yeah, there's a long history a long history with all of that.
>> Okay. So, so what do you think about this coming concentration thing? Like, is it a big scandal and >> would they?
>> Yeah. So, it's Yeah, it's uh, you know, it's this has just been kind of festering for a while, right? So you have, you know, the first consecrations in 1988 and um they uh you know, Lev and the four other bishops all get excommunicated. Uh John Paul II declares it a schismatic act and uh at least theoretically, you know, any of the priests associated with the movement based on uh uh guidance we've gotten, you know, they could be pretty easily excommunicated after a warning. um a little harder to deal with the ley there, but I think if they were very public about their adherence to the SSPX, you could, you know, make a case that local authority could that um in 2008, uh Pope Benedict lifted the excommunications but didn't regularize the society, was trying to, you know, welcome them back in and um uh Pope Francis uh extended uh priests of the SSPX the faculties to hear confessions in 2015. Uh prior to that we wouldn't recognize any of uh the priests uh having uh uh legitimate faculties to hear confessions um or to witness weddings. So uh that's a problem. And so he got they had uh faculties to witness weddings as well. Um but the the the the talks to reach a doctrinal agreement those have always uh fallen short there.
Um and so now this is you know this is looking like this one might kind of seal the deal that there's not going to be any more of this uh back and forth but this is going to be like all right you guys are done.
Um and there are certain uh you know canonical levers that uh I think Pope Leo could pull that would be effective.
Um one of them uh he could make a declaration that no Catholic could fulfill their Sunday mass obligation at an SSPX chapel under any circumstances whatsoever. And I think uh I think that would take care of people who find themselves in a bit of a gray zone where you know they're not super into the say the doctrine of the SSPX and their uh rejection of certain um uh teachings of Vatican 2, but they might be drawn to the liturgies, you know, and uh I think if he was going to do that, then he should also lighten up some of the restrictions on the traditional Latin mass so that you know if we're going to kick people out of this gray zone. We've got a place to receive them. Um, so, you know, I've uh I've I've been somewhat uh vocal on this channel about me not thinking that the restrictions of the traditional Latin mass that Pope Francis put in into 2021 were wise and uh it would be better if they were done away with. And as far as I can tell, um the uh uh illicit consecrations that are going to happen on July 1st, uh are providing all the occasion that Pope Leo needs to uh to do that and to say why he's doing that and to not have that look like a direct repudiation of his predecessor, which um many commentators have noted and I think quite rightly he doesn't want to do. He doesn't want to like just completely he wants to be uh he stated this over and over again a a unifying and and calming uh presence uh at the apostolic scene.
So that's a lot of what I think. I hope some of that was useful.
>> It's it's all very interesting stuff. Um by the way, congratulations. I This is your final semester.
>> Yep. my final summer and hopefully by the end of July I'm all done. Got some extra letters after my name and can not be in school anymore.
>> Did you order the green Cassic yet or >> I haven't gotten there yet. I haven't got That's uh But I do want that Cassic with the green piping. It's just the green piping, right? So most of it will be black. It have like black button uh green buttons and green piping around the edge.
>> It'll look really good. When would you wear the the cassic with the piping?
>> So, if you're following the rules, you would only do that during a uh an academic procession.
>> Okay.
>> So, you know, and that most commonly occurs during uh graduations, but I can imagine, you know, anytime I would uh so when you're uh when you're judging a case with a panel of judges, which is the ideal, uh it's called a turnis. you got three judges there usually. So, I could imagine myself wearing that fraternist just because, you know, I've got it and I'm doing canon law stuff and, you know, nobody's really going to stop me and it's not going to hurt anything. So, I'll just put the green piping cassic on and uh and uh yeah, wear it wear it while I'm judging cases.
So, >> so is uh uh your tribunal like a rebbitic court where there's a there's three there has to be at least three judges but one of them is considered the main judge like >> Yeah. Yeah. It's um so there are certain cases that can be heard by a single judge and fortunately we don't have to do that in Fargo. we've got enough personnel and not too high a volume of cases where we where we need to do that.
So yeah, the uh the ideal and what's very commonly practiced is you've got uh you've got three judges, you've got a presiding judge, uh you've got the ponins and a collegiate judge. The uh the pins has an interesting job is that he needs to bring out bring a written opinion to every case that they're going to judge and uh have that as the basis of discussion. And when the three judges uh have voted, he's the one who puts their opinions down in the definitive sentence. Um, and I think the presiding judge uh ends up uh uh being the one to instruct the case and uh and organize uh organize the meeting there. So uh so I don't know what it's like on the inside of Attorneyis yet, but I've got all this theoretical knowledge about how it could go. So >> Okay. So are are you most likely just gonna start out as like the colleague and then move on to ponis and then pre president?
>> So those those uh depending on what case it is those those roles can can move around fluidly.
>> Okay.
>> So you might be opponents on one case and then a presiding judge on the next and then a collegiate judge on the next.
>> I see. Uh there is the office of judicial vicor who uh who is uh runs the tribunal and uh he's got a lot more of that uh you know kind of authority on on on how to run these things. He's assigning the judges to the cases and that sort of thing. Um that's something that you usually you know work up to. So I probably won't be that for at least a matter of years. Um both the bishop and our current judicial victor think you need to have some experience as a pastor before you have that job otherwise guys won't take you seriously. So >> so um but all three of the judges have to have the license license you do or Okay.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Okay. Because in a rabbitic court only the the of baiten act technically has to has to be a what's called a dion is is the is the ordination for for uh being a judge and he can he can appoint anybody to be his two uh fellow judges.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's interesting. It's it's really interesting that you bring that up because uh there are it wasn't really that long ago where um people without the lens could be priests without the lensure could be collegiate judges. um it wasn't wasn't that long ago. And there's there's certain ways where you have you have some of that uh functioning, you know, certain uh processes uh like there's one uh there's one type of anulment process that was introduced by um uh Pope Francis, which is, you know, it's kind of kind of hard to figure, but the jud the bishop ends up being the judge, the sole judge on that case. and uh he's assisted by two uh assessors there. But uh if he can't come to moral certitude, it just goes to the regular process. So anyway, >> okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Um now the big questions. Um that video I was wondering uh you you said you got to watch a little bit of it and we could discuss it.
>> Uh what did you think?
>> I uh I generally really like that guy.
Um, I'd never heard him speak and I don't recall ever having read anything he had written. Um, but uh, what was his name? I'll I'll go ahead and pull that up so we can uh, >> yeah, he's apparently Bishop Baron's right-hand man at where >> Father Steve Grunow. Father Steve Grunow. Yeah. Yeah. He's >> He's apparently a bodybuilder, too.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, at least he was apparently. And you know, when he talks about uh some of the best evangelization he did, he did at the gym. It's like, yeah, I I know how that works. I I myself go to the gym and I myself uh will have conversations with people, you know, and who knows where those conversations would lead. Uh although I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm a powerlifter and that's I think they're very different. So >> you you bench like serious weight if I remember correctly. What what are you benching, father?
>> Um a couple weeks ago I was able to bench 275 twice.
>> Wow.
Wow. I'm I'm I'm trying to hit 100.
Wow. Yeah.
Um yeah, what what what do you think about uh what they were talking about in terms of like because you know I mean obviously our channels are much smaller than what they were talking about. But a lot of the stuff they were saying they were talking about in terms of you know why you do it and and the dangers of it.
you know, I I I was like, "Oh, I really wonder what Father Eric has to say about this stuff."
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I honestly like and I' I've said it on this stream before is uh like there's a reason why this is all kind of low effort is like if I gave myself into this too much without somebody else being there to like you know notice things and call it out like I can totally imagine myself getting sucked into the algorithm, sucked into the AB testing and and uh you know, clout chasing, clout chasing, we can say that, right? Like it's like it's not hard at all for me to imagine that. And so making this just kind of a little bit slack dash, a little bit cheap, you know, we're not going to not going to spend a ton of money on this. Just make sure we've got the the next degree of Streamyard account and and if God wants to do something via the algorithm, he's certainly free to. Uh but but otherwise I'm just going to I'm just going to do it at this level here. I think that's a a nice uh a nice safe uh safe uh uh way to handle this. And you know I um I think that's uh like I got the sense that father Grudo and Bishop Baron were are good friends as well and they can like speak frankly with each other uh about these things in addition to you know him being the CEO CEO and Bishop Baron being the uh the founder and all of that. Um, and so, uh, so yeah, I think it's, uh, it's useful. And I really, I really, I was just, I was so happy when he said, uh, when Father Gran was talking to it's like, yeah, usually when priests come to me and ask me about this, I tell them that they're too young and they just need to to go get some more experience.
I'm like, oh, thanks be to God. Like that is that is probably the right response right there because you know like have you um have you heard of the book I kissed dating goodbye?
>> No.
>> This was this was a uh this was a uh a uh a big deal in like the late 90s in evangelical churches, right? And um like the guy like it it made a huge splash and was all about all this purity culture stuff that was that was in the air, you know, that I don't have uh much direct experience with. But but the kid who wrote it was like 20 years old. And when I learned that, I'm like, what the Sam Hill are you guys up to? That you've got some 20-year-old kid that uh like he doesn't know anything. what why did you let him write a book? You know, and I just I was just shocked at that.
And uh yeah, so um that but the kind of the way I encapsulate all of this is uh the algorithm is enemy territory.
>> And I think that's uh that's words to live by there. doesn't mean that you need to like never go there. But when you go out into these, you know, artificial spaces that are governed by an algorithm whose purposes are not holy, right? It doesn't necessarily mean they're always evil. They just they have the purposes of connecting people with what they want to watch. And what do people want to watch? Well, they want to watch all sorts of things. Some of it's edifying and people will also watch all manner of other things that are not edifying. So, the algorithm doesn't care about edifying or not edifying. Uh, it cares about its own priorities there. So, it's enemy territory. So, when you're in an enemy territory, you don't relax and uh uh pretend that everything's going to be just fine and you don't need any. you're not at home. Uh you can't just put your feet up and relax. You've got to be alert to whatever dangers might be wandering around out there. And I think they were kind of pointing at that in a good way.
>> Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about the the stuff. Um, I mean, I I I listened to what you said about the book, uh, desecrating man, >> um, at at the beginning and, um, I I don't know if you heard about this, but, Father, um, Steven the Young ended up uh, on Tucker Carlson and there was a whole discussion um, some people were like, why would he do that? But like at the same time like he he seemed to be actually bringing some sanity to Tucker Carlson's discussions on this stuff which I'm thankful for. Um and today uh on on my channel there was a discussion where um I I think you know Mitch Mitch Caps really nice guy. He he he jumped on and he's he he's he's like, >> "Um, I I just wanna I just want to say this conversation is getting really crazy and like um might not be the healthiest thing for people because it was, you know, I I was listening to it afterwards and I've I've been really thinking about how how much responsibility I have for various things." So, uh, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this stuff recently and, um, >> yeah, having having your your thoughts.
Um the only thing I will say um I I am very very cognizant that a person like Father Steven was saying to uh Tucker Carlson, a person can be demonized without recognizing it and then they become like and it just seems to have so much to do with what we're we're talking about. Like I I wonder how much you know by by the time you're doing the Sisters of Perpetual whatever um thing you're you're like I mean that's that's pretty demonic right there, right? But at what point, I wonder, did the these people really recognize, oh yeah, we're celebrating something demonic? And at what point were they just getting caught up in, oh, other people are doing it and this is fun and it's a joke and whatever. Because I think we get a lot of people who inadvertently walk down a path and then suddenly found find themselves somewhere really bad.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I I did you broke up a little bit there. So I'm I'm trying to make sure that I'm I'm responding to the question that you're actually asking.
But uh there was something about um your stream today where the conversation was getting a little out of hand.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it did. Yeah.
>> I'm I'm just I I I have to always worry about myself.
like, okay, I I I think I got into this with good intentions, but at what point is am I am I looking at what's going on and going, um, as good of as intentions as I may have had, this this is something I need to dial back uh and refocus and realign.
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So when I look at what I'm up to, right, uh, you know, consciously I'm trying to, you know, bring the Catholic intellectual tradition into this YouTube space hopefully in a place where people can engage with it who might have heard something from Bishop Baron or, you know, pints with Aquinus or something like that and might want to talk to me about it. Right? That's kind of the goal. That's why we keep the lights on here. Um, you know, sometimes we're just in Uncle Mark's tech garage and and that's fine. That's that's part of the cost of keeping the lights on here and and you know, it's uh it's uh it's interesting. Um, but I'm like I'm very confident in what I actually would like the guidance that I'd give people. And it's like, you know, it's uh it's this, you know, it's just standard like Catholicism that people can engage in. And so I don't like I don't think the conversation that we have are the end of the story. I I would love it if both you and Christopher and any non-atholic who's listening to this would uh uh come to faith in Christ and join the Catholic Church and and and do these practices that I think are true and good. Right?
So that's, you know, that's that's kind of the goal that I'm aiming at with what I'm doing here uh on this uh live stream. And I think the means are and the effort are commeasured with that goal and and I'm at peace with this, right? And so, you know, if you're finding that your your your stream is is maybe going in directions you don't like it, like reorienting towards well, what's the goal of of what this is that I'm doing here? Like what am I actually trying to accomplish here? And um you know um because when you when you you know uh put yourself out here on this uh and and and you're pointing at something you are kind of becoming a leader like whether you like it or not you can't especially with the you know like like you could tell me anything about Hebrew Jacob >> and I would believe you because I don't speak Hebrew right and I trust that you wouldn't you So you wouldn't jerk me around that if I had a question about biblical Hebrew that you would answer to the best of your ability and it would probably be, you know, better than what I could come with up with on on biblehub.com.
um such uh uh so yeah like reg assessing you know what is it that I'm pointing people towards you know and and one of the advantages I have with being a Catholic is that we're like McDonald's you got a Catholic church you know in just about every county where everybody's going to be listening to this they would have some opportunity to engage in a in a real life community here But this is something I've noticed about, you know, you're talking about this this Noah Hyde idea is and and and maybe my my critique of it is is you don't give people like a readymade communities to engage with and practices to do to draw them closer to God.
>> Usually I tell them to go to a Catholic church. I mean, that's what I do, >> right? You know, and and so that's great. That's great. Um, but if if you're going around telling people they can be, you know, uh, god-fearers and keep the covenant with Noah, it's like you got to give them something to do.
And if you're telling them that's possible and then not giving them, you're tying up a heavy burden and not lifting a finger to help them carry it.
Um, so anyway, that's my random thoughts uh that you prompted. So, hope it's >> help. You reminded me of another question I had. So, one of the things that um the other father Steven uh mentioned was um that uh Bishop Baron was focusing on the beautiful and because he thought that the truth and the and the good could be controversial, but the beautiful generally isn't. But now >> it slips past your your defenses. Yeah.
But now he finds that actually people are are uh like battling on the beauty >> thing which I found to be really interesting and I I wonder >> do you remember that whole like Jordan Peterson Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition thing?
>> Yes.
you know, it's like, you know, on the one hand, like I don't want to put any more attention to that whole ridiculous thing than it needs to be. But on the other hand, and like you know, this is a thing that I I get into with church architecture a little bit and I think is a trick that like communist architecture was playing on people, right? Maybe we can move into architecture and it'll be a little less uh a little less spicy. um is like you just put these horrible sculptures up like like like every university in the United States with the exception of a couple of really small conservative ones they just have horrible sculpture everywhere and then like you have to look at that and you have to admire it and you have to say it's beautiful. It's it's part of that desecration talk that we started off with, but it's also just like, you know, like that's it's that's it's kind of a a lever of control right there. If you can if you can force somebody to look at something that's just horrid and ugly, and say, "Oh, this is this is wonderful art. It's revolutionary."
You know, and you can just like you you just you're just like destroying their humanity, so you can put whatever uh you want in there. And so it's it's no surprise. Um, it's no surprise that uh uh people are trying to do that and uh but like I'm not sure how effective it actually is on somebody who's uh uh not an intellectual, right? Like if religion is the opiate of the masses, then Marxism is the opiate of the intellectuals. Um cuz like I think I think a lot of art school and maybe Sally Joe could fill us in on this, but I think a lot of art school just like trains you to not believe your lying eyes and you know like bad art schools. I mean I'm sure there's good ones out there if you can find them. Uh but like you know saying oh well you know all art is judged on its uh on its uh political merits you know and its ability to affect radical social change. is like, well, no, really, does the painting look good or not? Like, is there something beautiful and appealing about it? Is does it have unity? Does it have truth? Does it have brilliance? You know, that's the the c aesthetic categories of uh of Thomas Aquinus right there. So, that people would try this um isn't surprising to me. Uh, but I don't think long term it could work because eventually, you know, like the people who who aren't smart enough to be fooled by all this nonsense, um, you know, they end up visiting St. Peter's Cathedral, St. Mary Major, you know, um, they don't go visit, you know, Our Lady of the Concrete. Um, >> I mean, so every time I drive past the cathedral in Los Angeles, which is very prominent, I think $200 million down the drain.
>> Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Um, a Catholic podcaster suggests that Catholic podcasters in YouTube should have a spiritual director for their podcast who watches and listening to their program and gives them direction.
I have a spiritual director, but he doesn't watch this. And maybe that's a lacuna right there. But uh it's an interesting to uh I do I do have a spiritual director that I check in with.
Um and I think that would that would go a long ways towards uh um taming people's uh uh worse impulses there. So >> yeah. Sorry, father. What was that? Did you say lacuna?
>> Lacuna. Yeah, that's a uh that's a hole.
I've never >> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh you know, there's lots of words that you probably haven't It's used because it's a a Latin root.
It's used a lot in canon law, right? So, you know, we could say that uh uh Pope uh Pope Leo uh just uh uh patched a lacuna the law on canon uh 699. And uh it would be um you know anyway.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. No, it was uh that that podcast that podcast was uh it was a good one.
It was a good one. It was worth listening to and uh you guys can uh can listen to it there.
>> I do have a I do have kind of a question to what Jacob was talking about.
>> Mhm. So, I didn't hear the full conversation, but he was mentioning, if I understood it correctly, the idea that the there was a time when the good and the true were um controversial, but the beautiful was not.
>> Yeah. So it's um this is Bishop Baron's uh strategy in his internet engagement which I think is a good one there was that he really you know he made it a point like certainly he was going to be teaching the truths of Catholic doctrine and he was going to be holding up you know good moral examples and that sort of thing but really making sure that he was focusing on the beauty of these things because you know um If you can if you can bring the truth and the the good in with a constant beauty as well and the beauty will move you in a way that you know if you've already got your mind made up about the Catholic Church let's say uh just telling them true things might uh you know encounter a barrier in somebody and his idea would be that the uh uh uh uh the you know showing beautiful churches listening to beautiful music, making sure that a documentary like Catholicism was uh was beautifully produced would uh would avoid those uh barriers uh uh coming up in people. Um and so that's why you, you know, you get the word on fire bible and it's just gorgeous, right? It's just like a beautiful uh um beautiful uh uh uh text to read. He's really he's really leaning into that and it works well for the internet because hey, you know, it's a visual audio medium, right? So, um I think he understood the uh the tools he was working with very well and uh deserves the uh the status that he has and uh God bless and we'll pray that his zeal for uh the house of the Lord increases day by day. Amen.
>> Yeah. Well, I was curious, is there any writings you would recommend for learning Catholic aesthetics in general or toist um toist aesthetics in particular?
>> I mean toistic aesthetics like I can give you the basics right now in about 2 minutes and then we can wrap up. Um so uh yeah so um first off is uh it doesn't seem that Thomas Aquinas ever directly taught that beauty was a transcendental quality of being and he may have followed Aristotle in considering beauty to only be a property of material beings. Um so just keep that in mind although that point uh is uh is debated by some people. Uh when Aquitus talks about beauty uh first there needs to be a uh a certain truth uh to whatever uh uh painting this is. It needs to represent uh something real and um and and something uh you know that actually exists. And when he's talking about truth, it's got to be something that your mind can recognize, right? So, this would rule out the Jackson Pollock um you know, paint splatters. It's uh it's like he's just kind of throwing paint at the wall. There's nothing there's nothing true about that. Whereas, you know, uh even you know, instrumental music has something for your mind to consider even if it's not reducible to a a propositional form right there. So, that's what he means by truth. um there needs to be a unity in the composition uh such that uh the the central theme of it or whatever truth it's trying to communicate is all you know properly contained. So, if you um well, here's here's an egregious example. Um the uh the Star Wars prequel trilogy, right?
The uh especially uh number two, Attack of the Clones. A lot of people criticized the uh the love plot between uh Anakin and Padme um as a uh as a uh as as a plot tumor.
Like, it really didn't move the story forward. it was just it didn't it didn't cohhere with the uh uh uh the unity uh in the rest of the plot there. So that's a that's a simple way to that. And then there's got to be this clarity or I think you could also translate that as brilliance, right? And that's kind of the ineffable part, right? Because you know uh it's easier to uh easier to articulate you know things like truth and uh things uh uh like uh unity uh but that brilliance that makes real art shine. That's where kind of the intuitive human qualities uh come out in it. And um you want to know what if this is a ridiculous Philistine take on art then I am a ridiculous Philistine. And being a ridiculous Philistine is a good thing. And I'll tell you what this ridiculous Philistine is about to do.
This ridiculous Philistine is about to go to bed because it's dark outside. And that's what a rational creature, even a ridiculous Philistine, would do. So why don't you guys have a blessed evening and I'll see you all next week.
>> See you next week, father. Very good.
See y'all.
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