Should Celtics Build a Team to Beat Spurs? | Celtics Beat

Added: 2026-05-24

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[00:00:04]>> Hey everybody, welcome in new edition of Celtics Beat as we take you near, not quite at but near the end of May. That means June right around the corner and of course the draft will be approaching and we will have free agency approaching. Before you know it, you'll blink. It'll be summer league and oh my goodness, guess what? It's training camp and media day. The season will be here.

[00:00:28]What are the Celtics going to look like?

[00:00:29]That has obviously been the theme of late here on this show. It's what everybody is talking about locally, nationally, your text threads, your friend group, maybe your family. It's what we're going to continue to talk about, honestly, till we get a little bit of clarity. Adam, EB, just the two of us. Uh, spoiler alert. I was not just omitting my last name Kaufman by coughing and trying to give you some sort of a signal there. Uh, I'm dealing with the flu, which is fine. Don't feel bad for me. That's not the point. I'm just telling you that because you will know that I'm going to periodically annoy you by coughing at you during this show. Maybe you get to watch it on the CLNS YouTube page, the All Access page, where you can find all of our shows each and every week and so many other great Celtics programs across the network. Or in this particular case, if you wanted to avoid actually seeing me hacking up a lung, you can just rate, review, subscribe, and listen to the Celtic Speed audio version wherever you get your podcast. Ev playoffs down to the final four. We of course have what I feel like is already a done Eastern Conference final. I think the Knicks are going to walk all over the Cavs and we can expand upon that a little bit later on. I will full disclosure tell people that even though the show is being released on a Saturday, we're having this conversation on a Friday. So right now it is 1-1 as we sit here between the Spurs and the Thunder. So, we're not going to talk a lot about that series given the game three will already have been played, but I think we should all expect if the first two games are any indication, this is going to be a war between these two teams. And we'll see how many guys physically are left standing at the end.

[00:02:11]That might be the best chance the Knicks possibly have to win a championship against one of these two is just hoping they continue to beat the absolute tar out of each other during a six or seven game set. And it feels like between Harper and obviously Williams and God, I mean, everybody >> AJ Mitchell went down. Deion Fox has been hurt.

[00:02:34]>> Fox hasn't even played yet as we sit here. Yeah, I mean it's >> that's the direction things are heading.

[00:02:40]>> But how you doing, buddy? I've been talking talking.

[00:02:43]>> I'm doing well. Things are good. Uh I'm just I just want to shout out you're wearing an actual shirt today. That's fantastic. Good to see you.

[00:02:50]>> Wear a shirt.

[00:02:50]>> You have buttons on your shirt. such a men's clothing snob that if I'm wearing a t-shirt that's not a real shirt. It has to have a collar.

[00:02:58]>> Yeah, I'm calling you out. It's just about time that you match match the occasion. That's all.

[00:03:02]>> All right.

[00:03:03]>> It's really interesting because, you know, you were talking there and I was thinking about what I would say for my next point, but I do want to revert back to you said something about the Knicks and how they're sitting there watching the Thunder and the Spurs beat the absolute tar out of each other and you're sitting there saying they're probably loving this, right?

[00:03:20]>> Yeah. We always have to make this sort of Celtics related because that's the name of the show with Celtics beat. Now, as the year went on, I think the goalposts moved, our expectations changed, and when the Celtics got to the playoffs, you and I very optimistic about about what we saw in the regular season, how it would translate to the postseason. Didn't go well. Obviously, we're sitting here talking about an offseason and there were four teams still playing, Six not being one of them. Do you view that now that now that you said, "Hey, the Knicks are sitting there thinking, hey, maybe we got a real shot at this." And I've talked to Knicks fans that past couple of days, they're having the same thought or conversation you just said. Hey, by the time all we got to do is beat this Cavs team, get to the finals, and we're going to face Oklahoma City or a Spurs team that's beat up.

[00:04:10]That's what they're thinking. So, with that in mind, are we still allowing the the 2026 season was a failure because the the Celtics didn't get to, you know, the the conference finals or the or the semi-finals or the finals because of the opportunity that would be ahead of them. Like, this Cleveland team is nah, they're all right. Okay, that Sixers team that that you got beat by, you should have beaten eventually, wasn't all that great. This Knicks team hasn't really played an amazing team.

[00:04:42]They played a Hawks team that was fun.

[00:04:43]CJ McCollum got hot for a while. Then they played uh a Philadelphia 76ers team that they were way better than. They outclassed. They were they just a way better roster, no question. And they have this Cavs team. They're like, look, okay, if Stroops goes off and if Dean Wade goes off and Sam Merrill and a little more Donovan Mitchell, like yeah, they can might win a game, but the Knicks are a better team than them. Do we look at this because we have to look at this with a C's lens and say like you're going to look at 2026. Yeah, we know Tatum was hurt. We got that. But he came back and looked great, >> right?

[00:05:14]>> Is it a missed opportunity for Boston or was this like hey plenty relax Tatum tore his ACL? This season was a a complete bonus start.

[00:05:28]>> Yeah, what did I say?

[00:05:29]>> Torn ACL.

[00:05:30]>> Oh, that's Yeah, you're right. Rford Achilles.

[00:05:34]Uh they made the playoffs, they had a great season, they made the playoffs, they got their doors kicked in.

[00:05:40]You you got to settle down. Cuz I'm sitting here, you say that, I'm like, man, if they had just gotten their act together >> and Joe Mazoul and everybody got their head out of their ass for a while, they could be the Knicks saying the same exact thing like, "Hey, we just got to make it there and they're going to have a banged up team on the other side."

[00:05:58]>> So I I think I've been consistent holding my ground on this one. by all means. I'm sure people in the YouTube chat will tell me otherwise if I haven't and and I welcome that, by the way. But I think I've been consistent about this.

[00:06:11]The Celtics season was not a failure.

[00:06:14]The Celtics season was an overwhelming success.

[00:06:19]The series was a failure. The playoff outcome was a failure. The season, however, let's not forget most people, and I know we moved the goalposts along the way. That's what happens when good things happen. But most people at the start of the year didn't think that team would be any more than a team that loses in the first round of the playoffs. That was pretty much the ceiling most people had. I think that was probably the ceiling that the two of us had. A competitive first round series that you probably lose to a better opponent is your ceiling. The problem with what I just said was they didn't lose to a better opponent. I still firmly believe Boston is better than Philadelphia.

[00:07:06]Unfortunately, what bit them in that series and has now bitten them in multiple series during premature playoff exits in recent years is shooting variance.

[00:07:17]They very specifically elect and know how to play a certain way. And when the threes are falling, they will embarrass you. And when they are not, things tend to go the other way. And most of that series against Philadelphia, the shots weren't falling. So, you can point to Tatum not being available in game seven if you want. I don't I don't use that as some sort of an excuse. They shot like [ __ ] most of that series.

[00:07:45]That's why Brad Stevens in part didn't sound all up in arms talking with the media after the season because he knows, as we've talked about on this show, that they wildly overachieved in the regular season. They won 56 games. Nobody saw that happening. Nobody. Nobody on their best day in the front office said Boston is a 56- win team. We were saying 45 to 50 best case scenario.

[00:08:14]not 56. No way in hell. And there were some people thought they'd win 25 or 30.

[00:08:20]So Boston had a very >> you that Wizards game where or in the middle of that Wizards game was like where this is going to be the most most I was texting you during it. I was like if they lose this game I'm out. Like that was that was the line of demarcation on the season after the way they had lost to Utah. If they lost that next game to Washington I was done. I was out. I was rooting for AJ Debonsa the whole rest of the way, >> but of course they won. Stupid little meaningless game, but nevertheless, wildly entertaining regular season. But the problem was, and we've hash this out already, so I won't go on and on, but they enter the playoffs as the betting favorite, overwhelming betting favorite to come out of the East to reach the NBA Finals. And so you can play the game that you outlined of what if they were in the Knicks spot right now and how would we feel about this potential NBA finals and Boston's presumed who the hell knows health and excuse me what that looks like on the other side. But the whole thing I kept thinking to myself as you were talking and sort of outlining this scenario was I don't think they beat the Knicks anyway. Even if they had gotten past Philadelphia as they should have, that was a meltdown. They were up 3-1. That's inexcusable. That is a disaster. Should have been in round two at the very least. But watching what the Knicks have done, even if you want to say Hawk's not that good, Sixers not that good, I'll grant you that.

[00:09:58]the way the Knicks are playing. However, >> yeah, >> Boston wouldn't have won that series. I just don't believe it.

[00:10:06]I I you know, the Knicks, this is these are not and and look, I love the guy and I've praised him I don't know how many times on this show over the years, but these are not Tibs Knicks.

[00:10:17]>> Mike Brown.

[00:10:19]>> They play the They play differently.

[00:10:21]They have different different styles.

[00:10:24]They have alternative ways to beat you.

[00:10:26]They have incredible depth. They, as we saw in game one against Cleveland, also have the ability to get insanely hot from three even when they're having a poor shooting night. I mean, they shot this this is the thing that kind of gets lost. This is not a Knicks podcast all of a sudden, but the Knicks had a terrible shooting night from three. They shot like 30% for that game, but they couldn't miss in the final seven minutes of regulation, force overtime, and they win. The Cavs are the ones to me, and I've been saying this for quite a while, that are reasonably fraudulent. Now, that doesn't mean Cleveland couldn't have beaten Boston. I think again, this speaks to where Boston was as a roster.

[00:11:10]This is why we're having all these conversations. The Celtics have a lot of holes on their roster. And quite frankly, and we'll see about the Knicks again, assuming they're in the NBA finals, and I think they will be. I felt they would be going into the series. I certainly felt they would be going out of game one. And now after, you know, being up 200 and a couple of lopsided wins, I really believe it. But I still think the other two team the other teams in the West, like we've texted about this constantly, they are just playing a whole different sport.

[00:11:45]>> Yeah.

[00:11:47]the the Thunder and and the Spurs are like, say what you want about the style in which the Thunderplay and the foul baiting and SGA flopping and falling all over the floor and that stuff, but the talent on those two teams is unimpeachable.

[00:12:02]They would destroy the Celtics in the NBA finals. They just would. You can give me the best of seven, anything can happen. What if somebody gets hurt?

[00:12:11]Okay, fine. Like, all plausible. But those two teams are so head and shoulders above anybody else in the league right now that one, I don't think the Celtics would have gotten there in the first place because they probably go down in round two regardless. But independent of that, even if they get by the Knicks and they get by the Cavs and they get to the NBA finals, we'd all be ecstatic the Celtics are still playing, but we'd be waiting for them to get gentleman swept.

[00:12:40]>> Yeah. And it's it's interesting as you sit here to think about when Boston's trying to build their roster for 2026, 2027, are you chasing the Knicks or are you chasing WBY, the Spurs, or the Thunder out west? Are you trying to build a team to beat those teams? And we'll get to that after this quick break for our friends over at Price Picks.

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[00:14:03]like literally have one queued up and then when the tip off happens, just hit it and then send it in. Like it really could be that easy for for this whole entire equation. I promise. What do we got?

[00:14:14]>> And we have uh my picks for this week.

[00:14:17]Adam uh I'm not going to lie, buddy.

[00:14:18]We're be transparent with our audience here. Adam's had the flu this week, >> so we've been giving him a little time off. He's also being a nice guy.

[00:14:26]>> What's up?

[00:14:27]>> I've been in bed. a lot of time in bed, >> but you're also doing me a solid because Adam skunked me last week and he's giving me the opportunity at a mulligan here to catch up to him. I went 0 for last week and Adam kicked kicked my ass.

[00:14:41]He went two for three. So, he's clearly leading in that particular pool and he's let me get caught up because he knows I'm only in two out of three. So, the worst coffin comes out of this thing tied. So, for our uh our uh prize picks lineup for Saturday night, Knicks and Cavs going to Mitchell Robinson, more than two and a half rebounds. We're going to Donovan Mitchell, less than 27 and a half points. He actually hasn't hit that number in the four last five games. Just want to point that out.

[00:15:09]>> And then we're going Evan Mobley, who has had an up and down series, but it's only been two games. Going more than eight and a half rebounds. That's where I think Cleveland, if they're going to win this game, they have to control the glass. And I think with Mobley and Allen, they have a better shot at it. If I hit all three, of course, I 3x my money. I hit two out of three, get most of my money back. 0 75% of it or 75% of it. So, look, I call that a win. If I don't lose everything, that's a win. In as little as 15 minutes, I can watch that money roll right into my account. I use Venmo. It's super easy, but use whatever you want to use. And if your app's on fire, off to a great start.

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[00:16:09]Get $50 in lineups after playing your first for only five bucks. Let's get back to the show. All right. Thanks to our friends at Prize Picks. But EV, let's pick up where you had just left off there, which I think is a really interesting point. You know, it it I'm sure there's a a better basketball comp for it, but where my brain goes to first is football. And I think about all the conversations over the last couple of years about like the Buffalo Bills, you know, are are they are they trying to just, you know, reach a Super Bowl, win a Super Bowl, or they specifically trying to beat the Kansas City Chiefs?

[00:16:49]You know what I mean? So, what you're talking about, are the Celtics trying to take down the East just just be measurably better than we'll see if Giannis goes somewhere. Hell, he could come to Boston. But are you trying to take out the best teams within your conference or are you just trying to get to the top of the mountain and beat the cream of the crop in the NBA which again very clearly right now Thunder Spurs put them in whichever order you want. I actually like the Spurs going into the series and I love them to win the title presuming they get out of this series.

[00:17:22]But it's a really interesting question.

[00:17:24]How do you feel about it since you posed it? Well, I that that analogy with football is very it's a good one, right?

[00:17:31]And you look at the Knicks team right now. Unlike and I know Philly beat Boston this year. Uh I totally understand that.

[00:17:38]>> But Philly has watched Boston beat them for like nine years a way to to settle Jaylen and Jason down a little bit at all.

[00:17:47]>> I've always said that. The Knicks on the other hand, they built a team with two guys, an OG and Muel Bridges theoretically that could attempt to stop the Jays. And they did. They did. They stopped the Celtics last year. They beat him. They beat them in their own house.

[00:18:02]I was there for game one. It was not fun. So, as you look to build this team, build the Celtics, are you trying to build a team that's built to beat the Knicks? Are you trying to be build build a team that's built to be let's say the Pacers who are going to have Tyrese Hallebertton back next year with Pascal Seakum and and Zubot and everything that they have they bring to the table. Are you looking to do that or you know do you try and build a team to to beat the Spurs because you know Victor Webinama isn't going anywhere. You know Dylan Harper isn't going anywhere. You know Stefan Castle isn't going anywhere. The Thunder have some decisions to make. you know, their their their their clock's ticking a little bit. You know, that that second apron comes for everyone.

[00:18:44]And I know some people out there will say, "Well, they've been saving money, etc., etc." I get that. But the tax penalties get to be a point where they're going to be ridiculous. That's why Brad Stevens and the rest of the front office cleared $384 million in salary so they well theoretically so they could get back to a a normal salary amount for the squad that they had. So the question becomes, you know, do you try and beat the best teams in your conference, which is clearly the Knicks at this point, what do you do to beat them? Or do you say if we can build a team that can compete with the Spurs, they'll probably beat the Knicks anyway?

[00:19:19]I'm not quite sure where you fall on that. I think if you're looking to beat the Spurs and Victor Webmanyama, I'm not I'm not quite sure how you're gonna do that. I'm not quite sure how how you get to that spot. Um, this guy is unbelievable. And again, we we're we're taping this on a Friday before they play game three. We have no idea how it's going to go. Zero clue. Uh, but I tell you, for game one, watch him pull up at from 30 feet to tie the game with 26 seconds left, having 40 points, 25 rebounds, all that stuff. At age 22, you're sitting there thinking like, I don't I don't know, man. That's pretty tough. Like, that's pretty tough. Is do you have to get desperate and get a Giannis? You have to go out and get a a player that's top five, top three to compete with a guy that's top one. Like folks, sorry to say it, but WMBB is probably going to be the best player of the year next year. Just going to tell you. Uh do you have to go out and get another top five player to compete like that to to pair him with Jason Tatum? Do you pair him both Tatum and Brown? Do you get rid of White? Like I'm I'm not quite sure. Do you beat him in the aggregate? Do you say, "Look, we'll trade Derek White to get a couple of guys so we have 10 11 guys that can come at you instead of having >> But but here's here's what I would ask you about because because we've we've kind of had that conversation. I'm I'm not anti like, you know, beating somebody in the aggregate and what have you. I've I've made that compar >> like I mean people have attacked me for suggesting that like heaven forbid you deal away Jaylen Brown if you're not getting the you know the the better player in return. Well that's again that's that's an aggregate kind of situation but what I would say about that is it's not just Fox. It's Castle. It's Harper. It's Vel.

[00:21:11]Like the Spurs are effing loaded. This team is incredible. So yeah, is WBY your your most important player? Without a doubt, but it's not like it's just him that you're trying to overcome.

[00:21:26]So are you just going to be like a Giannis? It's got to be Giannis because he's the old like because you >> Well, I I mean I guess >> let's let's say we're getting it's let's say you go out and get like a Donna Sabonis and X whatever because you're not trading Jaylen Brown for Deanna Sabonis like that's that's a step backwards. I like the manus don't get me wrong. Step backwards.

[00:21:46]>> Love Sabonis.

[00:21:47]>> You got you got to get a lot of stuff in the aggregate to make that work.

[00:21:50]>> Complete Sabona for that guy. Love >> you. You go. The problem is like there aren't a lot of guys the caliber of the Jay's that are really out there where you can take one of them and upgrade and get a lot better because you're looking, it seems to me you're looking for high-end talent. How can you find a way to to obtain high-end ready to go talent right now? And it feels like Giannis maybe is the only answer to that question.

[00:22:16]>> Well, I let me ask you this. I'm asking you directly, but really I'm asking all of you out there listening, weigh in by all means in the YouTube chat. We want to see it. Maybe we'll bring some of the answers responses to the show next week and we can continue to debate because it's not like this Giannis conversation is going anywhere.

[00:22:35]>> Yeah.

[00:22:39]>> I don't want like if we're just talking purely emotionally, I'm not even talking about basketball. I don't want to split up the Jays. I would love for these guys to both be lifetime Celtics and all that comes along with that and obviously would love to see them win again together and I am not you know this about me after doing this show said we started this show or took over this show in 2018 we've been doing it for a long time I have never been one of those the Jays can't win together can't play together don't look right I've never not one time, not once over the years.

[00:23:20]But do you believe purely for basketball reasons that Giannis Tatum is just too, excuse me, too compelling a fit to overlook if it's there and it's available to you. It like there's there's no debate. There shouldn't be anyway. There's no debate as to who the better basketball player is. It's Giannis. Sorry, Jaylen. It's Giannis. I think everybody knows that. That doesn't mean he is superior in every single way.

[00:23:55]But who's the better player? A B. It's Giannis. It's It's just Giannis. Those two, Giannis Tatum, have different skill sets, different abilities, play different positions, do not overlap in any way, complement each other in a number of different ways.

[00:24:16]If you are not overwhelmingly sacrificing your depth, bringing in Giannis, and you are not scared about potential future injuries stemming from a calf turning into an Achilles, you know, that's something that scares the [ __ ] out of me. But if it doesn't worry you, those two together, are you willing?

[00:24:39]Do you believe the Celtics get they improve enough? they get they get better enough to where you are potentially shortening your championship window into a you know okay all right we got a couple years here that we can really lean into these guys versus maybe you have a slightly elongated window if you don't do something like that you improve on the margins around the Jay's would you like to get better faster for a shorter period of time if it means Tatum and Giannis versus continuing to trust in Brad and Xarn and all of these guys to build around the fringes and hope that you can get there in the aggregate knowing that it's just tougher because bottom line talent wins out in the NBA.

[00:25:31]>> Well, that's the that's the thing.

[00:25:32]Talent is the number one key in the whole in the whole equation. The problem that we have here is Giannis has a player option 2027 2028 for 62 million.

[00:25:45]So if you trade for him this off season, you're probably going to have to sign in him to an extension. So you're going to probably have to lock this in at this point. The problem that you also have is players of Giannis's caliber just don't don't shake off the tree too often. You don't get the opportunity to grab a guy like that. And I I I'll be honest with you, the idea of pairing Giannis and Tatum together is extremely tantalizing to me. Um, can you imagine how many rebounds these guys would get?

[00:26:14]>> As we're talking about trying to win the possession B, like what was the big thing that we talked about all season, especially with Dan Greenberg, who's our guy who's on the show quite frequently.

[00:26:24]You know, they they wanted to flip the possession battle in their favor. So they crash the offensive glass to gain extra possessions and limit you to one possession on each side. I mean on the defensive side so that you they can they can get out run whatever whatever. So if you get Giannis in here and you have Jason Tatum already like you have two guys that rebound the absolute crap out of the basketball. Okay. Getting Giannis also probably settles your your big man depth a little bit. We entertain the idea of John Collins last week as a guy to fit in here with Kada as either a backup big or maybe a complimentary big.

[00:26:56]You play them both together. Do you bring Garza back? Do you do you play Amari Williams a little bit more? Like whatever. Bringing in Giannis solves your big man problem immediately. I mean immediately. The question you now have is now your perimeter is not nearly as good. Like you don't have the perimeter as it used to. So how do you upgrade that? Is Derrick White still on this team? Do you trade him too? Like how do how do you make this work? Because if you bring Giannis in and you have to sign him to an extension, guess what?

[00:27:22]You're still going to have the same issues that you have with Jaylen Brown in terms of money, in terms of financing. It's going to be difficult to build a team around two guys that take up 70% of your cap. Whether it's Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum, or it's Jason Tatum and Giannis Dumbo. Can you keep all three of those guys around for a while? I find it very interesting to have Derrick White as a part of that team. But maybe you get Giannis, you bring him in, then you trade out Derrick White, and you try and build on the periphery that way. Not a lot of teams are going to have the ability to match your star power talent if everybody's healthy with Jason Tatum and Giannis.

[00:27:55]But to your point, now you're relying on two guys. One of them just ruptured his Achilles. The other one is a potential rupture coming if this calf whatever. We don't we don't know with the calf anymore. It could be nothing. It could be a huge deal. We don't know.

[00:28:11]>> Yeah.

[00:28:13]>> There's a lot of risk in that. So if you're training for Giannis, and this is Simmons had this on his last show with Rob Mahoney, he had the the nugget of Giannis wants Boston, but I'm not totally sure Boston wants Giannis.

[00:28:30]>> And that seems insane. It seems insane, but I bet that's that's got to enter the thought process of okay. And Tatum's been and like one of the best iron men in basketball since he's been on the basketball floor. Derek White, similar guy, but Jason Tatum, this injury and then having his little issue that he had during the playoffs, it's got to scare you a little bit. A little bit. And then you have Giannis, big man in his 30s.

[00:29:01]He's 32 at this moment.

[00:29:05]You know, do you do a a KG Ray Allen thing where we're getting these guys and we're going to ride them till the wheels come off. They got one out of it. They almost got two out of it. They might have gotten two if KG doesn't get hurt at 09. Like, are you comfortable with that or are you trying to do something bigger than that?

[00:29:23]>> Here's We could spend a lot of time on this question I'm about to pose. We're going to probably anyway throughout.

[00:29:30]>> No, we're kind of hitting hitting different things along the way. May we could do a whole show with a guest at some point on this topic.

[00:29:38]>> I will just ask you, don't don't give me a long explanation. Just a yes or no would be fine.

[00:29:44]>> Do you believe that Jason Tatum obviously once he gets fully healthy, but do you believe Jason Tatum is still improving as a basketball player?

[00:29:51]>> Yeah, >> me too. Do you believe that same thing of Jaylen Brown right now?

[00:29:56]>> Absolutely. I don't know that I do.

[00:29:58]>> Well, how do how can you how can you watch this season and say no? How >> because because I think what we may have just seen from Jaylen Brown is his ceiling and which is not a bad low ceiling. He he'll be all NBA. You can make >> you can make a case for him to be allNBA first team.

[00:30:17]>> We're gonna bookmark this time this time stamp right here. This is where the you hate Jaylen Brown comments are coming right now.

[00:30:26]I don't necessar I just I what what is >> I guess I'm wondering what's left for him to get better at that you think he's going to improve at >> I think the vision took a huge step forward this year. I think the ability to play in the paint a little bit more, get inside the paint a little more was a little bit better. He slowed down a little bit.

[00:30:45]>> But don't you feel like it regressed when Tatum returned?

[00:30:48]>> Well, that's cuz they hadn't had enough time to kind of, you know, collaborate.

[00:30:52]have enough experience playing together?

[00:30:54]>> Not not with Jaylen at this particular moment in his career. No. And and and there's a there's a possibility life gets easy for the both of them. I Here's what I'll tell you.

[00:31:04]>> Let me rephrase. Let me rephrase before I get completely attacked by you and by everybody else.

[00:31:08]>> I love this.

[00:31:10]>> Jaylen has a higher ceiling than where he is at, but it's not next to Jason Tatum.

[00:31:16]>> Okay. I don't think I don't think he continues improving individually as a basketball player as a member of the Celtics. How about that?

[00:31:25]>> I >> you want to go put him on Atlanta or something like that? Sure.

[00:31:29]>> I >> as long as you agree with that.

[00:31:32]>> I I think I agree with that.

[00:31:34]>> Okay.

[00:31:36]>> But like one one thing I'm not going to do coming from in terms of my point. I don't feel like like I I don't want to say these guys together have reached their ceiling because their ceiling I sure they have. They won a championship.

[00:31:50]They could do that again. So I'm not saying we couldn't see that again. But I don't know and no one knows. We haven't seen it.

[00:32:00]>> I don't know what last year's Jaylen looks like with a healthy Jason Tatum.

[00:32:04]And I don't know if we're even capable of seeing it. I don't know if someone has to sacrifice. And if they do, >> it's Brown. It just is.

[00:32:17]>> There's sacrifice has to happen from both guys. I don't think sacrificing is just a one-way street here. I think Tatum has to do a little sacrificing. I think Brown has to do a little sacrificing, right? That's that part of the secret sauce of 2024 was when they sacrificed there was Derek White and Drew. What are they ready to sacrifice to? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I'm just gonna give it to Drew Holidayiday or we're gonna give it to Derrick White or give it to Porzingis who when he played when he was on the court was an unbelievable cheat code for this team. It just didn't happen at the the right time at the end of the year.

[00:32:50]But both of them have to sacrifice. But what I'll say is with Jaylen Brown, I don't the guy has come in every year better than he was the year prior.

[00:32:59]Now, we'll all admit, we can all admit that this particular season without Jason Tatum around was his best one yet.

[00:33:07]No question about it. It that's where the sacrifice comes in. He had to sacrifice a little bit to accommodate Jason Tatum. When Jaden's not there, he can do a little bit more. I I would like to see as an emotional guy. I would like to see a full season of what Jaylen looks like as a this new version of himself and Tatum figuring out how he can best help his teammate.

[00:33:36]I'm I'm very interested in that. At the same time, if there's, how do I put this? If if there's if the because this this little all the chatter about Jaylen is like boss and wants out, maybe Sim's talking his way out, blah blah blah. If that's actually real and Jaylen's like, "You know what, dude? I I I I enjoyed running my own team. That's what I really want."

[00:34:04]Then fine. The Giannis thing obviously makes a ton of sense.

[00:34:07]>> Yeah. He won't change his mind on it if that's how he feel.

[00:34:10]>> Yeah. If that's what's if that's really because like the perk thing. Did you see this perk thing where he was like I got text messages from >> Perk is just >> I I don't I don't know. I mean he Yeah, I did. And I'm sure for anyone that that missed it, you know, it's it's Perk saying that he's I mean, literally going on air reading receipts, you know, claiming he's got texts from other members, you know, I don't know about present, but past for sure of the Celtics organization saying that, you know, like we don't rock with Jaylen and we're we're not, you know, not not supporting where he's at. Basically, you know, >> Davis Smith's coattails.

[00:34:47]>> Yeah. But is that like is that like Glenn Davis? Is that like is that like Leon? It's not Leon Paul. Leon wouldn't do that. Leon is not that guy. I'm not going to put Leon Paul in that position.

[00:34:57]>> The organization.

[00:34:58]>> It's like is it James Posey? Like who like because I'll tell you the important guys like Robert Parish loves Jaylen Brown.

[00:35:08]>> Robert Parish ain't texting Perk.

[00:35:10]>> That's also very that's also very true.

[00:35:13]He's definitely definitely not perk. My point on that was like for like, okay, Perk, you might have a text message from like the whatever guy on the bench. You might have like a text from Von Wafer for all we know. You know what I mean?

[00:35:24]Like who knows who those former Celtics are. It's not Evan Turner. He's been on the record about that.

[00:35:31]>> Evan Turner's on team Tatum.

[00:35:33]>> Yeah.

[00:35:33]>> I didn't know we were going full Twilight with these two, but apparently that's where we've reached. But my point being like if if that is if that is real, let's just for the for the sake of the argument, let's assume >> house could be any house.

[00:35:47]>> Could be any house. We don't know. But let's assume that it's real. If that's real and Jaylen wants out, >> then fine. Like then you guess what? You know what Jaylen, thanks 2024. Thanks for all your help. Uh you've been an amazing advocate for the city of Austin.

[00:36:00]You've been an incredible uh you've been left a huge imprint on our city. Thanks for everything. Um here's your own team.

[00:36:07]We'll take Y like that that I get.

[00:36:09]That's a scenario where I'm like I'm good. That I'm cool with.

[00:36:12]>> Yeah.

[00:36:13]>> But the scenario where you're trading Jaylen Brown for Giannis because >> you are I I'm not I don't know if I've fully come there yet. And when Simmons literally Friday morning I was listening to it.

[00:36:26]>> Yeah.

[00:36:26]>> Said, you know, Giannis wants Boston, but I'm not sure Boston wants Giannis. I kind of get what they mean.

[00:36:33]>> Do you? And I I I have two Giannis related questions for you. But first, let's take a quick break. Tell you today's show is powered by Rocket Money.

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[00:37:09]So, I don't love to cook all the time after work because I'm so crazy at work.

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[00:38:58]Back to the show. All right, so we're talking about Giannis like everybody else is going to continue to be until there's a resolution to this. And I would say that is weeks if not months away. So yeah, that's going to continue to be top of mind as it relates to Celtics expanse. So long as some of you out there, and I don't really believe it, want to think that they are in the mix. And that doesn't mean Boston's not interested. Again, the Simmons report or isn't going to inquire. Already has. We know that. It's just will Giannis wind up here. And I I just don't believe it.

[00:39:28]I don't think that's going to happen.

[00:39:30]But let's play the game for a second.

[00:39:35]I don't know exactly what packages would look like clearly, but if I'm just saying to you, hey, Giannis is coming.

[00:39:42]you trading Jaylen Brown more or less straight up or you keeping Brown you're trading white and I would say Hower for sure possibly Pritchard some combination and there's picks that are certainly going to be involved as well but ultimately if you are bringing Giannis in next to Tatum do you prefer to keep brown or to keep white >> uh taken money out of the equation because trading Derek White is it's hard to get to that salary number.

[00:40:19]>> Um, >> well, it just takes more players. You can do it, >> right?

[00:40:22]>> Like I just said, Hower's probably gone.

[00:40:24]Maybe it's Payton. We'll see.

[00:40:26]>> Well, I definitely don't like that version.

[00:40:29]Um, just because now you have like no guard depth at all whatsoever. Um, you're relying on, you're fully into the Point Tatum, which has always been my like go-to thing to say for several years. I just want more Jason Tatum running the show. Um, you are fully committed to that. You are looking for just the best shooters humanly possible outside of those three guys. You know, can Shyman be one of those guys? Do you go out and get another absolute lock down shooter? you know, could you bring in like, you know, is there a way to bring in like a Luke Canard sort of situ? I'm not This is what you got to get the best of the best shooters that you've ever seen put around these guys and if they can defend a little bit, that would be fantastic, but you have three great defenders to, you know, Ugo is going to have to play a lot more.

[00:41:16]Like there's there's it's complicated because you're you're just betting on star talent. That being said, you roll into a series with everybody healthy of Jaylen, Jason, and Giannis.

[00:41:29]That's a that you're gonna keep coaches up at night with that. Like if you're So to circle it all the way back to our to our conversation about are you gunning for the Spurs or or the Thunder or are you trying to just win your conference, beat the Knicks, beat the Pacers, etc. Well, if you had those three guys, everybody's looking at you. You're not looking at anybody else, right? Like even the Spurs are like, >> "Boy, we got to play those three guys for seven games." Like that's going to be really difficult. three.

[00:41:58]>> So is that is is are you falling in that particular part of the hey man like look if if the the second apron penalties and all these things like you if you all those things are very prohibitive but like if you have the opportunity to go for it you go for it like this past season what was this past season four you know some people are going to say development Jaylen Brown doing his thing some people are going to tell you get under the tax reset some stuff and have the ability to make moves it better like >> scall screaming to do that right now.

[00:42:28]Take another year of don't do anything and then get ready to fire the slingshot or whatever he said. I don't even really know what that means.

[00:42:37]>> Look up to Trey Bashet. I don't know. I I'm sure it worked in Scal's head.

[00:42:40]>> But if that's the plan, that's the idea, then I I can I can get that. But it's just a really scary proposition and you're extremely thin after those three guys. And that's again you're and we're what do we start the show with? The Spurs and Thunder beating the crap out of each other. We'll see whoever gets to play the Knicks. And the Knicks are probably thrilled because they're going to be healthy by the time they get there and you're probably not. You know, >> I think I understand both. So, I don't want to say like there's one very clear answer.

[00:43:12]I don't feel that way. And this is again going to it's going to reset the whole Kaufman hates Jaylen thing, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

[00:43:23]The thing, excuse me, thing about um thing about Tatum, Giannis Brown as compared to even if you don't want to do the like Pierce KG Allen, you know, get a little more modern with it, do uh, you know, LeBron Bosch Wade, right? Something like that. Point is, somebody has to sacrifice.

[00:43:50]And in this situation, I think all three of those guys want to get theirs like pretty openly. You know, I don't think any of those three, especially considering they've all won a title already, are looking to take a statistical step back, you know, for the betterment of the team. Maybe I'm wrong.

[00:44:17]So, if I'm talking if I'm, you know, thinking about again purely basketball and the balance of a team of a roster, we've talked about this. I mean, Derek, I'm not going to say Derek White is a better player than Jaylen Brown. That's not what I'm saying. Lord knows Jaylen is the superior scorer, like by far.

[00:44:44]But Derek White does most other things better than Jaylen, including defense. I know Jaylen always likes to believe he's the best defensive player on the floor.

[00:44:53]White's a better defender.

[00:44:56]So that to me if you're doing this and again I'm not even thinking about the finances and obviously Jaylen is in theory do this gigantic $140 million two-year extension.

[00:45:14]Derek White's never going to sniff money like that. So you have more financial resolve by keeping a Derek White version versus a Jaylen Brown version. But again, it's not my money. I don't care about Bill Chisum's wallet. So that again, not the point.

[00:45:36]>> Your problem there is though, if you're trading >> is this we're all trading for Giannis in the situation if that is that your >> Yeah, if you're trading for Giannis.

[00:45:44]>> Okay. Well, and you got to give up one.

[00:45:48]>> Well, Giannis slides into the $50 million, $60 million what Jaylen's going to make anyway. So, the the money is the same. So, it's not like >> you're sacrificing.

[00:45:58]>> No, but I'm talking about if you were if you were keeping the Jay's and Giannis and then all of a sudden everybody is due their payday.

[00:46:08]>> Yeah. You'd have to have a conversation with everybody. Giannis Giannis is due what a a fouryear $250ish million dollar deal$ >> trillion dollar Yeah. He's going to be able to just basically never work. I mean hasn't work in his life anyway. But like the money is going to be insane.

[00:46:23]You're talking you know 70 million you know 80 I He's going to be the highest paid player in basketball very shortly here. Like not far off from the highest paid play. He's going to hit he's going to have all the super max stuff.

[00:46:35]>> Well then Brown maybe is going to be 70.

[00:46:37]Tatum is going to be, you know, close to 80 eventually.

[00:46:42]>> Like, >> so I I don't know. I So, that that was kind of the again, we we've hit on so many different things within this show that could be entire shows themselves, but we just want to, you know, hit some of these cliffnotes type topics as as all of this goes along.

[00:47:00]The final thing with Giannis that I wanted to mix in, I I've been texting with a friend of mine about this recently and and he brought up, you know, a lot of the things that I'll mention, but I agree with them. I think that, excuse me, like where to if let's say that the reporting that's out there is true. Giannis wants to stay in the East, he wants to go to a contender.

[00:47:25]And I don't really even believe that's true if we're going to continue to have the Miami conversation because the Heat aren't going to win crap with Giannis like that. So I'm I'm going to be afraid of Giannis and Bam and nothing else on that roster like that they'll be like a six seed. So I that's that's I I don't worry about Giannis in Miami and I and I laugh at the suggestion that he only wants to be with a contender if he goes to the Heat. But let's pretend the other things are true.

[00:47:55]Where do you think he should go, >> Charlotte?

[00:48:04]>> Interesting. I mean, you got a you got a fun core there. Very athletic core.

[00:48:09]>> I like to shoot.

[00:48:10]>> You know, they probably I don't know if they have I'm on uh spot track right now, so maybe I can look it up pretty quick. I don't know if they have the um the money to line up for Giannis. They clearly have the assets for it.

[00:48:23]>> Sure. I mean, and they have a young team with a bunch of smaller salaries.

[00:48:29]>> Mhm.

[00:48:29]>> That you wouldn't have to necessarily panic. Like we've been talking about Boston, you're like, you know, you you take that salary on, but it's going to be more expensive as you get going here.

[00:48:39]Um, could you take Yeah, I I got it right here. Hang on. Uh, would you do I just want to make sure Spottrack lets me do it, but I got the trade for you right now. LaMelo and Miles Bridges for Giannis.

[00:48:55]because the money works.

[00:48:59]Now, you might have to throw some picks their way obviously. Um maybe if you're Charlotte, you know, they have a bunch of younger guys. Obviously, Khan is untouchable. Brandon Miller is untouchable. Um but they have Liam McNeely, they have, you know, if you're into Treyman, I don't think anybody is saloon. Um you know, they got some guys, they have some picks. see what they got for draft picks. They have two picks in this series draft. They own Dallas's pick uh three through 30. They own Miamiy's pick 15 through 30 next year.

[00:49:34]>> Well, look, any any team can make a package work.

[00:49:37]>> Well, they have three first round draft picks in 2027. My my point being is they have a ton of picks.

[00:49:42]>> Yeah.

[00:49:43]>> If if I were Charlotte, first off, you're a team in the East. You can compete. You already did. You have all your trade assets. you have the contracts to make it work and then you have the the the younger guys that own they don't take up a lot of money around him too to make this even more ideal. So again, you know, we don't know who's going to trade for him yet. We have no idea. I don't know if Charlotte's even on the radar yet. My point being, if Charlotte wanted to do it, they could clearly do it. I mean, >> well, let's remember, and and this is the thing that I I'm not gonna say it's not talked about, but I don't think it's talked about enough is that ultimately all that really matters where Giannis wants to go. I know he doesn't have a no trade clause, but we know how this goes in the NBA. Superstars dictate their teams. So, he's going to be a free agent in a year if Milwaukee tried to, you know, hold him down and and and get uh confrontational about it. But if Giannis says, "I want to go to Miami and the best they're getting is some package centered around Tyler Hero, even though clearly a Jaylen Brown package or whoever package is better, doesn't matter. Milwaukeee is just going to have to count out to where Giannis wants to go. That's the way it works. Kevin Durant has proven that year after year. James Harden has proven that. Paul George has proven that. Kawhi Leonard has proven that. It's >> didn't work for Dame though. No, I guess not. But it's but in general, it's a fact.

[00:51:13]>> It works for most It works for most people. Maybe not, but it works for most people.

[00:51:17]>> For most.

[00:51:20]>> So, he won't want to.

[00:51:25]I think he should want to go to Cleveland. Now, he just spent his whole career in Milwaukee. He certainly doesn't want to go move to Ohio. I get the appeal of Miami, don't get me wrong, but Mitchell needs help. Mitchell is about as inconsistent as they come in in, you know, highlevel allstars. Not a superstar.

[00:51:48]Fight me, like Donovan Mitchell's not a superstar.

[00:51:52]>> I agree with that.

[00:51:53]>> He's an all-star. He's a star, but he is too inconsistent and hasn't won nearly enough to be on the superstar plateau.

[00:52:03]He needs help. He needs another guy who is even remotely at his level. They don't have it.

[00:52:08]But they've got pieces.

[00:52:10]>> Oh, they have they definitely have pieces for that.

[00:52:13]>> They got pieces. And an Evan Mobley package going the other way. You bring in Giannis, you still have Allen presumably Harden even though he's at 37. You got some other younger shooters. I mean, Cleveland becomes a team, I'm not saying it would, but becomes very capable anyway, of being a let's call it a 65 win regular season team and then makes a deep playoff run and is a true viable contender. Giannis makes that team like Giannis takes a Cleveland team that I generally laugh at or am perpetually unimpressed by and turns it into an actual legitimate undisputable contender in the Eastern Conference.

[00:53:05]>> Yeah, you could do >> I'm just not sure I'm just not sure he cares about that enough.

[00:53:10]>> I'm not sure winning is ultimately the number one. It's important, but it may not be as important as destination.

[00:53:17]>> I'm I'm just because we're having fun here. I pulled up Giannis for like Moy Struce and picks and stuff like there's stuff like that you could do.

[00:53:25]>> Yeah.

[00:53:25]>> Um obviously Cleveland after this is done with, you know, we all think they're probably going to lose. Um is going to look in the mirror and say, "Okay, how how do we get better?"

[00:53:34]>> Yeah. How do we get better? Like that would be I mean they have a James Harden question to answer, but I think they already have the answer to that question. just a matter of like when he comes back. So, can they afford Giannis, Harden, and Mitchell al together with Jared Allen? Like, I don't know. Could could Boston get in on that and say, "Hey, we'll take Jared Allen off your hands because you can't afford all that." You know, there maybe there's a discussion to be had there. But it's it's going to be tricky. This Giannis is a huge piece for several reasons. One, the contract's massive. And two, at full health, as you reshuffle the top five now, he's probably still top five. I mean, you're going to have WBY, SGA, Joic, Luca, and Giannis probably is your top five. I'm I'm omitting Tatum because WBY has fully supplanted and I think everybody at this point in the NBA. Um, so you're talking you're still getting a top five player at a top five salary.

[00:54:28]So, it's going to be it's going to be heavy lifting. So, whoever trades for Giannis, which I think is where we're going to end up here, uh, it's going to have to take a lot. You know, if it's if it's, you know, Charlotte, it's, you know, LaMelo and and Miles Bridges, which I don't think is that big of a deal for for for Charlotte.

[00:54:44]>> But, you know, for a team like the Cavs, you know, you're going to sacrifice one of your best shooters and your best young asset. I would call Evan Mobley their best young asset. Um, because Donovan Mitchell's not that young anymore. Um, if it's Boston, it's like a Jaylen Brown type of situation. Like, it's gonna take a lot to get Giannis out of there. I don't know if the attraction for Giannis, because as you said, he's got to get the kind of pick where he wants to go.

[00:55:08]>> Y >> um I don't think he's going to want to go to like a Brooklyn who's got the five first round picks they drafted in this last draft and none of them are any good. Like, I don't think it's going to be one of those teams where they can overwhelm. Here's a bunch of young dudes. Here you go. No, it's not going to be like that. It's going to take legit talent leaving. So like as the Atlanta option, right? So Jaylen goes to Atlanta, bunch of Atlanta stuff goes to Milwaukee. The young proven talent on Atlanta and Boston gets Giannis. Like that's the type of stuff we're talking about here.

[00:55:41]>> Anyway, it's going to be fascinating.

[00:55:42]But I I think and humbly I think we brought up some interesting things in this show as talking points. I'm not saying they are all completely unique. I know we like to joke around. Celtics beat always first and true in a lot of different areas. Some of what we discussed today has been obviously been talked about elsewhere, but uh hopefully with some you know different spins along the way to uh keep you thinking at the very least. We would love to hear from you in the chat and uh you know bring some of those to light when we chat again next week as we do wrap up the month of May. And uh you know, I guess as we sit here now though, everyone enjoy your Memorial Day weekend. Nice holiday weekend. Hopefully a nice long stretch prom season over there and in E's neck of the woods and everybody else except he's got to work the thing. And um beyond that, rate review, subscribe to Celtics Beat the audio version wherever you get your podcast or of course video. You can leave those comments in the YouTube section. You can check out our show or many other shows across I'm here across the CLNS Media Network, the All Access show on YouTube specifically for us. Uh if you can't tell, I'm eager to get to bed. So, look forward to uh talking to all of you guys again real soon for E, Adam, our uh friends at Price Picks and Rocket Money, Harrison and and behind the scenes, everybody involved. We'll talk to you again real soon. Bye.