The life and legacy of Mary Todd Lincoln

Añadido: 2026-05-31

[00:00:01]Welcome back to the takeout. A common perception fed by a fair amount of scholarship is that Mary Todd Lincoln was simply the grieving widow of Abraham Lincoln. A new biography titled An Inconvenient Widow by veteran journalist Lois Romano looks at the crucial influence she had in her husband's rise to the presidency and the failures of those around her following President Lincoln's assassination. Here is some of our conversation. Lois, I'm going to start with the subtitle, not the title.

[00:00:32]The torment, trial, and triumph of Here's the title, An Inconvenient Widow. There's a lot in there.

[00:00:39]>> There is a lot in there.

[00:00:40]>> There's a lot of emotion.

[00:00:42]That's the leading characteristic of the life of Mary Todd Lincoln, isn't it?

[00:00:46]>> It's all volatile and emotional. You're absolutely right.

[00:00:48]>> Why?

[00:00:49]>> Um well, she was an emotional, volatile woman.

[00:00:53]Um and the reason I wanted to do the book is that I didn't think there was a well-rounded portrait of her out there.

[00:01:00]When I started to do the book, I knew I was right because people would come up to me and say, "Wasn't she crazy?"

[00:01:06]And yeah, she had some mental illness, but so did her husband. But when we see her through history's eyes, it's very one-dimensional.

[00:01:15]Um we see all the negative things about her and not the positive things.

[00:01:20]>> Let's cut to the chase. This is masculine judgment, isn't it?

[00:01:23]>> It is totally masculine judgment. And you can see patterns when you read all the scholarship from over the years. It was the men It was the the male even early on, his friends who didn't like her. And I think there there was a couple things going on there. I I think she did have an irascible personality, but I think there was some jealousy because she had his ear. And I think that um a lot of his advisers didn't like that. And and they she was too close and she got in the way and she did things that women didn't do like when he was elected to Congress, she said, "Well, I'm going to come to Washington with with with the toddlers." And that just wasn't done. And and David Davis, his good friend, wrote it to his wife and said, "She wishes to loom large in Washington." Which of course she didn't, cuz he was a freshman congressman. She loomed very small.

[00:02:07]>> [laughter] >> And then left. Um but that she she was just in their way a little bit.

[00:02:13]>> Do you get the feeling that had she been a man with the same characteristics, she would have been labeled eccentric instead of crazy?

[00:02:21]>> Yes. Um she would also would have been um labeled strong and outspoken.

[00:02:27]>> [laughter] >> Right.

[00:02:28]>> Right. I mean she was labeled she was a little eccentric. Um but you know >> But eccentric is more neutral.

[00:02:34]>> It is more neutral, right.

[00:02:35]>> Way more neutral.

[00:02:36]>> Right.

[00:02:37]>> And when people walk up to you and say their only impression of her is that she's crazy, that's that's sunk in.

[00:02:42]>> I had an aha moment late in the process where, you know, I talked to a lot of shrinks about all of this, and I read all the reports. And somebody, a local um person here, I just asked had her read some stuff, and she looked at me and she said, "This is anxiety. This woman had high anxiety." Because the the things that you would hear is that she would have these blow They called it temper. She had a bad temper. But what is a temper? Um she would have these blow-ups, but then they would pass over, and she'd be very contrite about it. Cuz she would get anxious. And and and that's something that could have been treated today.

[00:03:15]>> Right.

[00:03:15]>> You know? I mean half the world is on Prozac.

[00:03:19]>> And and there is a therapeutic line of conversation that tries to tell someone who might say I'm overreacting. A therapist would say, "No, you're reacting."

[00:03:28]>> Right.

[00:03:29]>> Take the over out of it.

[00:03:30]>> Right. Let's just >> is genuine.

[00:03:32]>> Right.

[00:03:32]>> Let's hold that.

[00:03:34]Examine it. And try to pull it apart.

[00:03:36]>> And why? Right. And if she had had that, a I mean she definitely had >> But the society around her said overreacting.

[00:03:42]>> Right. And she she had issues. She might have been bipolar. He he was a depressive. She had mania.

[00:03:50]And even people >> What a great combo. it great? Even men who did not like her contemporaneous friends of his, some who hated her, said that if it weren't for her, he might not have been president because she was a driver.

[00:04:06]Um once he was president, he had more authority, but she was the driver and he would go into these You know, his his career was pretty volatile.

[00:04:14]>> Yes.

[00:04:15]>> You know, I mean, he was elected to one house seat before he became president.

[00:04:19]And she was a little engine and he kept thinking, "I can't do this. I can't do this." But in the meantime, he was progressing. He was a a natural orator, but he he he doubted himself quite a bit and she had no doubt. She said, "You are going to be president."

[00:04:33]>> Even generalists about Abraham Lincoln know the name Stephen Douglas.

[00:04:38]>> Yes.

[00:04:38]>> What I learned from your book is that Stephen Douglas and Mary Todd Lincoln >> He courted her.

[00:04:44]>> They could have been a thing.

[00:04:45]>> They could have been a thing and in fact, her family wanted it to be a thing because he was from a proper family. He might have gone to Exeter in Vermont and he and they said, "Well, what about Stephen Douglas?"

[00:04:57]>> He was more of a catch.

[00:04:58]>> Yes, and she said, "Well, he's a Yankee."

[00:05:01]You know, I don't want a Yankee. I want I'm She was all in for the Whigs and Henry Clay and that was part of her draw to Lincoln. He was a Whig and she loved Henry Clay and he was also an acolyte of Henry Clay. Um and she had no interest in Stephen Douglas. It was And she she There was some talk from her sister that maybe she used Douglas to make him jealous to make Lincoln jealous cuz Lincoln was sort of up tight about stuff like that.

[00:05:27]>> [laughter] >> Some men are.

[00:05:29]>> Some men are. Right. Right. But she was not interested. I mean, she was she was totally on Lincoln the whole time.

[00:05:36]>> You can listen to my full conversation with Lois Romano about her book which just made it on the New York Times bestseller list on your favorite podcast platform.