In Survivor returning player seasons, established relationships and jury management often outweigh pure gameplay skill, as demonstrated by Aubrey's victory over Jonathan despite his superior fire-making performance and strategic play; the season's mixed reception highlights how narrative storytelling and social connections significantly influence jury votes, with Aubrey's compelling underdog story resonating more than Jonathan's strategic approach.
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Survivor 50 Finale Recap | Snuffing TorchesAjouté :
All right, we are live. Snuffing Torches Survivor 50 finale recap.
>> Slightly delayed, but we got the full crew. Me, Nate, John, Rich, and Cleur.
Apologize for uh the delay to everybody.
Had had some stuff get in the way, but we're here. We promised an episode. Uh we are going to deliver that episode to you guys. I actually just watched it last night, so it is fresh in my mind.
Um, I haven't seen a ton of what the court of public opinion is um on the on the episode and finale. Um, I guess I would say like it was fine would sort of be where my head is at. Uh, I know the chat is going to hate this. I think Aubrey did end up deserving it. Like I think comparative to who like it's her Jonathan. I think Aubrey like made a compelling speech. Um, I thought, you know, the way she talked about playing the middle and everything, I thought she had a good story. I thought Christian's question was great. She's certainly not the best winner of all time by any stretch of the imagination, but compared to who she was with, it it was definitely a I I don't know if I would specifically say or I'm saying last night. I don't know if I would specifically say that the finale um was the worst part of the season, but the really the LA the last third of the season I would say was just weak and the finale was just a continuation of that. definitely leaves a sour taste in the mouth for the season overall. Um, but yeah, >> we're lucky. We're lucky a week has passed. I It's just I've gone through, you know, the stages of grieving. I I I I truly I mean I think if if you did the blind resume, I think Jonathan played the better game than Aubrey. I I think Aubrey got very fortunate that she's played many times before and she used that to her advantage with the story and the jury management. I know that's an important part of the game, but on a returning season like it it it really gives new players such a disadvantage.
Like Serei was talking about going on vacation with Aubrey before, you know, the game was over. like she it it it I don't want to say fair or unfair because I think in Survivor those factors do matter and even if it's unfortunate for a player like Jonathan it just it's just the way the game is. So I'm not going to harp too much on that. I just think it's become a game of I I don't want to say politics but they kind like Jonathan I I'm not going to get into it.
Whatever. Like I think everybody knows what I'm saying. I think he was I don't want to say discriminated against, but like I think on >> I don't know what you're saying. What are you saying? Just say it.
>> HE PLAYED THE BETTER GAME. He deserved a win. There were mitigating factors that they didn't give him the win and he could never win this season because of those factors. They didn't like politics. They didn't like that. I mean, they call him a misogynist nonstop. Like there I I just think that he >> But is there anything is there anything to like if he is rubbing so many people the wrong way maybe >> 100% Tommy 100%. He could have done he could have done more. Like he had a fine game, but like he didn't really have any like wow moments. It's not like >> compared to Aubrey. I think he I think he did laps around play a good game.
>> He played a he played a fine game.
Aubrey played a a fine game. If they switched bodies like if their stories just switched, I think Aubrey still wins. Like I agree with you there, but like I I don't but like Jonathan didn't do anything to wow me to the point that I feel like he got cheated that >> right. I agree with that. Also, Tommy, you mentioned like public opinion. Uh I think I kind of agree public opinion here is that it was pretty terrible finale. Uh and it I I saw some pieces even like kind of like [ __ ] on the whole season because the finale was so bad, calling the whole season a failure, which I disagree with that.
>> Yeah, >> I think I think the season was good. I think the finale was by far the weakest moment of the season. I thought it was actually even poorly edited. I thought it was really telegraphed exactly what's going to happen before it happened, which is a pretty uh rare knock for us or for me about Survivor is that usually it's so edited, you know, that's the strongest one of the strongest things of the show. This was I just felt maybe they had no choice or no options, but this felt so by the numbers and it felt so obvious. I was >> I was really discouraged with the finale. I thought it was actually pretty poor.
>> So, well, wait, hold on. The one thing that was suspenseful was fire making and propes completely.
>> That wasn't even that was >> that wasn't suspenseful at all. Like I think that was sort I think the mess up and the recovery and the way they made jokes about it was almost the highlight of the finale. It was like >> without question I thought he handled it well after being like that was our sneak into the future twist like made a joke out of it instead of like pretending that it didn't happen. Um, honestly, I think that >> like you're talking about how how clemer it was soiled for you because it was so obvious what was going to happen. I think one thing with me watching it later is I pretty much knew everything that happened. I knew the mess up. I was able to figure out who the final three was from just seeing [ __ ] on Twitter.
So, like I going into it, I didn't have any thought of like this is like what's going to happen, you know what I mean?
So, there was never even that hope for me. If I went in with that hope of what's going to happen and it was so telegraphed, yeah, that probably would have soured it in my mouth a little bit.
I mean, also, let's also just say it at this point. I I personally, I imagine most of us have known Aubrey wins this season for for a while now because of the prediction markets. It sucks. I saw it towards the beginning of the season, the poly market or Calry that Aubrey had like an 80% chance of winning. I told myself like, "Oh, it's probably not real." Because sometimes they manipulate the markets like this where they'll boost one person, give them super high odds, and then people with inside knowledge will, you know, hammer somebody with like a 6% chance. But I I didn't speak it out, but obviously we're in the Survivor community. You got people in the live chat. You have, you know, people on Twitter and stuff. It's going to come across your desk. I saw it pretty early. I tried to not um, you know, mention I think we did a pretty good job of not making it obvious until truly the last couple weeks when the edit obvious that like we had no choice but to be like, "Yeah, Aubrey's probably going to win."
>> I didn't see it until like three weeks ago.
>> It wasn't like that much money in the grand scheme of things. So, I never like really I don't know. I always feel like it could be like one or a couple people like [ __ ] around, making a mistake, whatever. But yeah, you're right that they were in her favor. Well, allowing betting markets for pre-taped shows is so insane to begin with. It's It's not going to stop either. Like Big Brother's about to go through it and The Bachelor's going to go through.
>> Big Brother's live though, so you can't >> Oh, you're right. You're right. I'm sorry. Like the Bachelor and like what's the other pre-recorded? The big one.
Whatever. Like they're all going to go through it and Jeff Proes blasted them.
Like Jeff was like, "This is insane. It ruins our show." Like we had it in our chat very early on and I saw it and then we did a whole thing about please don't say it in the chat. Please don't say it in the chat. It didn't ruin the season for me, but it sucks. Like, it [ __ ] sucks that you could accidentally stumble upon it and like a reply to one of your tweets like out of nowhere.
Like, it just shouldn't exist. Like, these markets just should not exist.
>> Agreed. Yeah. I don't know what the solution is. Like, Survivor has no say in in >> no >> getting rid of it would have to be the markets. Yeah. They would just have to agree like handshake deal to not allow it. It is also like like so I know Jeff was like anyone that works on our show with inside and is betting on this um is fired or whatever. How is it getting out? Like that's what you want to know.
It's just like how do so many people know? I mean the cast knows. All right, here's here's my question. Do you think because obviously and like someone said it was like a 70% chance Aubrey won before the episode aired. I didn't see before episode one aired. I didn't even see that at the time. I'm glad I didn't.
But what do you think it's more likely that these leaks are getting into the markets from the players, from the cast, or from somebody on production?
>> All of it, man. All of it. There's money to be made. People are [ __ ] scumbags.
>> It wasn't even money to be made. So, like a few seasons ago, before uh any of these this stuff happened, uh all the leaks were on Reddit. You can go on Reddit and you could find out who was going to win like specific seasons, like even in the order. Like my wife likes the spoilers and stuff. I hate them, but she'll go on and she'll know who wins a whole season before the season starts. I hate that.
>> So, I know there's some seasons that are more spoiled than others, >> right?
>> Yeah.
>> But like, but there's not even money there. People just love knowing things, I guess. I don't know. I think spoilers stink. But >> the one spoiler I thought that I had is it was actually Clemer when we were doing the um the uh Barcel afterdark perfect game stream. You're in Chicago with with Tate playing MLB the show. And someone in the chat kept spamming like and we had the chat up like coach win Survivor 50. coach wins right 50 and parting was like they're probably [ __ ] around but I was like man that'd be a pretty awesome spoil that spoiler I would have been okay with if coach somehow wanted >> um but yeah going into it I really really did not know and even like I think back to going to the premiere party like Aubrey was kind of sitting in the back like she wasn't like mixing it up too much with the cast like you know you're trying to read that body language of like who seems like the winner um but yeah it became pretty obvious >> just don't don't do the votes on the island just wait for the live finale.
>> Yeah, but I mean that happened this time.
>> I I that's that's the only like in between.
>> I don't know anyway.
>> I mean, let me say this. Uh and we you know, we'll go into we don't have to go second by second recap, but I thought one of the strengths of the finale was the I like the live stuff again. Like the the >> Yeah.
>> Like having Jeff like welcome everyone in with the with the crowd going crazy.
uh you know when Aubrey wins and the Survivor theme music hits and she jumps into the crowd or you know she comes into the crowd sees her family in the crowd Jeff I'll see you back in the states all of that brought me so much back to childhood of like goosebumps where was like oh my god or like the next season of Survivor I would say one critique is I wish they cut out some of the show especially this finale since it wasn't really that exciting and gave us more reunion on like there were like 12 minutes of the reunion show after I understand that they sprinkled pulled stuff in along the way where they would talk to the cast during commercial breaks and stuff. The vote out during commercial breaks. Just save all that for the end. Like give me a half hour reunion show where it's set back in LA.
That would be my critique for it.
>> Don't cut back and forth because that just wastes time.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just have it all at the end.
>> Yeah. One one like slight beef I always have at the finale is that I think three hours is a little bit long. I always feel like I'm having my night like hijacked a little bit. like you know I'm going to watch it like do you really need to like like you know there's like NBA finals on whatever there's like other stuff going on it's like all right well I guess I'm locked in for three hours so then when part of that three hours is like the cut back and forth the what's the interview with Stephanie talking about how she's inspiring women all over the place it's like you you maybe could have cut this episode by a little bit like you maybe didn't need all of that cut back and forth live stuff but aside from that I mean it did give us >> the Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, let's just I guess let's talk about that, too.
>> Yeah, we got it.
>> You know, it's firemaking challenge.
It's going to be Jeff. It's Rizzo verse Jonathan. And before that, Jeff goes, "All right, bring out Rizzo." Which right off the bat is weird. Yes. And like, you could tell he's starting to ask que is starting to ask questions that imply Rizzo's left the game. Like, would you do anything differently? And Rizzo's like, "Win or lose, I wouldn't do anything differently." Rizzo, credit to him. Great job realizing the moment.
and and maybe he could have even been like, "It hasn't happened yet, Jeff."
But like he did a great job like >> kind of dealing the cards that were dealt to him. And then when Jeff's like, "I don't know what just happened." Like that. I mean, what a moment. What a reality TV show moment. Uh and then like I said, I think they really recovered it as well as possible when it when he came back and was like uh and was like, "That was our last twist of the season. Sneak into the what? Peak into the future twist." Um you know, here would be my my critique for Jeff. This is why you got to do live shows every year. He's out of practice. He hasn't done he hasn't done live TV like that in what, six years or something? Seven years.
>> It's crazy that he was just like goofing off, chatting, and he wasn't watching like the monitor. He wasn't watching the show. So, he didn't know where they were at in the show. So, he >> is that crazy? Like, I think that actually makes a lot of sense. Like, he's not going to watch the show.
>> He didn't know to be like, "Hey, this is exactly what you're saying here."
>> He's getting a cue to go out. He's not watching the show.
>> Yeah. I he didn't know where they were at in the episode, so he couldn't even like protect.
>> He's doing 10,000 other things. Like he's got to get his stuff ready. Like >> he's just he's drinking Coronas and chit chatting with Boston Rob.
>> But like broad like if you like backstage on Broadway, they're not like watching the show waiting for their queue. They're told, "All right, a like you got to like go." Like no one like watches the show they're in.
>> I think the producer should know where they're at in the episode.
>> Correct. That's their job.
>> Maybe that's just me, Clemer. Maybe I just think he should know where they're at in the episode, Clemer.
>> But I think the producer should >> Yes.
Who do you think the producer is? You think >> he's not remind? Okay, sure. He's technically the executive producer, but he's not the producer of the live show.
Correct. The director of the live show.
>> They forgot to remind.
>> That's crazy.
>> You think I just forgot to remind Jeff like in his ear or whatever?
>> I think they gave him a bad cue.
>> They must I mean I mean Rizzo knew.
Everybody else knew. Obvious obviously takes a should get a ton of blame for it, but I also think production should get blamed for it, too. And >> it's a good thing. Mistakes are good.
Mistakes are fun.
>> I'm almost woke to it that like that fire making >> Yeah.
>> I mean, there was never I mean I'm I'm like joking a little bit here obviously, but like that fire making was so boring.
Like there was no chance in the world ever going to beat Jonathan. So hey, here's Little Juice. Here's Jeff spoiling it. Like they they did they did an okay job editing like making us think like oh Rizzo's like learning like he's getting better but he was never beating Jonathan.
>> Jonathan got very fortunate with his f like a lot of times we see a huge flame and then it dies out and Jonathan's just didn't die out. But Rizzo people were giving Rizzo a hard time for losing fire back to back. He had a week between seasons. It was It's really And then so here's the weird thing is I I was reading it's taboo to try to learn how to make fire while on the island which I think is kind of strange like that there's these unwritten rules of baseball in Survivor where he couldn't be like hey I lost fire or something. I don't know like someone want to show me how to use flint. seems like it's an okay thing to do on Survivor, but I kept reading that it's like no, you it shows too much like if you try to learn. It's interesting. So, first of all, I think what you said is a great point of like you want to give Rizzo flack for not learning how to make fire before going on Survivor the first time. That's more than fair. In the nine days he had between Survivor 49 and 50, I imagine he wanted to like lay down and eat and wasn't like, I'm going back out in the woods to make fire. And it's just very like unfortunate, super small odds that he ended up having to go to fire again.
>> I don't think it's super small odds though, Tommy. So, I I'll push back on that.
>> If you plan to win that game, there's a 50% chance you're making fire.
>> Um, >> you got I guess I guess No, you're right about that. You're getting to the final four. There's a 50% chance.
>> So, if you're out, you get to the final four. I mean, well, then it's what uh 16.7%, right? One and six. So, but regardless, if you want if you're playing to win the game, Herm Edwards, like then you got a 50% chance you're making fire. So, you got to kind of figure it out.
>> I mean, Aubrey brought us Aubrey bought us some kid off that suit.
>> Yeah.
>> Know she's gonna I mean, >> also, speaking of, I always thought it was three shoots that came out. I don't know if I ever realized it's only two.
Two.
>> Two.
>> Yeah. I don't know why I always thought it was three or maybe it was three back in the day. I thought I thought it used to >> Oh, no. I only number two because left, right, left, right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. No, I listen I get it, but I we're saying about Rizzo like Yeah. You You got to be prepared. You just have You do have to be prepared for fire. And credit to Jonathan. Like he talked about how much he practiced like losing fire. He practiced for four straight years. Like I said, Rizzo had nine days to practice instead of instead of four years. Um, but uh yeah, I mean Jonath I almost like if I get on Survivor I want to DM Jonathan and be like how the hell do you do that? Like that the way he had that spark down that one hit. I've never seen anything like it. It was unbelievably fast.
>> Yeah. And poor poor Rizzo. I think I read he started 49 at 175 pounds and he finished 50 at like 120 pounds. It was just he was >> he looked so bad.
It it reminds me of old Survivor when like the girl I always go I was talking to Clemer about this. I always go back I can't even remember what season there was a little tiny Asian girl who like left the island at like 84 pounds. Like she dwindled away and that's when it was 39 days and then what Rizzo did the full 29 days like back to back >> 25 days both seasons.
>> I see Nick Nick Firmstone saying Cleard type build. I'm 150 at three. So if Rizzo's 120 that shows you how skinny he was. beat Rizzo's ass right now.
>> Well, yeah. No, but he just show like as skinny as scrawny as I am, he's like three pounds less than me. And we met him. He's not a short guy. So, like that's that's >> He's bald, too. Good basketball player.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. This I wanted to bring up too. Uh, someone said Boston Rob thought Jonathan had to make fire. Jonathan me mentioned Boston Rob so much I feel like of like how he reached out to him and learned the game. This is something I clocked months ago, but I didn't really want to say anything. But when I was doing the the challenge at Penn Station, the hand on the hard idle thing, uh, for the Fiji trip, Jonathan came, all the players were there, they came out and were like, you know, talk doing interviews and stuff and I remember Jonathan bringing up like, you know, I reached out to Boston Rob and I can't remember who, but I remember one of the players or two of the players looking at each other with like an eye roll and being like, I've heard this so many [ __ ] times from Jonathan about Boston Rob. So, I think right there is like sort of like an example of like maybe Jonathan can >> annoy some people or get on people's bad sides a little bit even when it's not even the game and it's just like postgame press interviews where it's just like he's hitting the [ __ ] same thing again.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I mean also that's not like a great thing for your game to to be like I went to the best to try to learn how to play survivor.
>> Better than better than going like Banu.
>> No, no. I just say like I wouldn't continually brag about it as like a talking point for my game. Like I needed to rely on someone else. I don't know.
>> Bragging is much like how I evolved.
>> Yeah.
>> Um anyway, let's let's go through let's just hit on some of the key points. Um >> I know it's probably harder for you guys to remember than me, but if you have anything along the way, uh so we start um with um you know, basically it's going to be Tiffany or Aubrey. It feels like like Rizzo's happy with the three blind side. Oh, I did like credit Tiffany. Um I liked her like you know she was mad after the three vote. I liked when Aubrey came up to her and was like you know if you want to talk and Tiffany's like [ __ ] that fake sympathy like you came for me first. Like we know that if I didn't win the challenge, you were coming for me anyway. It was just good to see Aubrey get humbled a little bit there for for some fake sympathy. Um and everyone sort of wants Aubrey or Tiffany out next. uh depending on who wins the challenge. Um what did you think of uh Tiffany being viewed as a threat to win the game? Do you think if she got to the end she would have won?
>> It it sounds like she was the favorite if like it just by the way the last two episodes they were talking about her seems like she was like far and away the favorite >> which if let's say it's Tiffany Rizzo and somebody else at the end not Aubrey who is Sere advocating for >> Yeah. and she runs the [ __ ] vote.
Yeah. Like, >> and that's that's that's your answer, I think.
>> Yeah. It's going to be obviously Tiffany or or Rizzo.
>> So, I think I think she would have gone with Tiffany, I think, there. So, >> I think so, too.
>> So, if that's the case, then I don't really know too many pathways Rizzo had to win.
>> Yeah. But I mean, Tiffany said it 100%.
She said like, "This is a potential lifetime achievement award for Aubrey. I don't have that. They don't want to give it to like a newbie. They're gonna give it to the return. She said all of that and she was 100% accurate about all of that. Her problem was they all thought she was going to win if she was there.
Like they it seemed like they like legitimately could not keep her even if they knew Aubrey was going to win because they knew Tiff was going to win if that makes any sense.
>> Was that just because she was winning challenges like crazy?
>> It just seems like they all I think they liked her more.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think that I think also Rizzo Rizzo could have won maybe against Jonathan and Joe. I think Jonathan might have beat him, but I think that would have been a good that would >> that's the only pathway.
>> You think Jonathan? Yeah.
>> You think no shot against Aubrey even after he would have like overcome beating Jonathan on fire? I do think Aubrey and uh sorry I do think Rizzo and Aubrey correctly like said it like Rizzo would have been really good at final travel counsel. He would have been really good and you know when you talk about story it's like hey my story is that >> 60 days ago I was a Survivor super fan and now I'm here against the greatest of all times and I'm at the end. I think he would have had a good shot.
>> I still think Aubrey would have won but I think he would have had a good shot and I do think he would have beat him Jonathan. I think he would have beat Jonathan. Aubrey was beating Rizzo every time. The It's It's the Serei being best friends with her. It's that he's a He I mean, they were all annoyed by him.
Like, we've seen that all season. They They >> They didn't see him as a threat to win at all. They didn't care that he brought an Idol to the end whatsoever. Like, that was his big thing and they didn't care at all. Like, Rizzo was not going to beat Aubrey or Tiff. He just had to sit next to Jonathan and Joe.
It all comes down to speech, man. He He would have gave a really good [ __ ] case.
>> They weren't going to give it to a player they had never seen before. Si is best friends with Aubrey. Sere controls the vote. Flipping wasn't going to give it to Rizzo.
>> I think Siri would have voted Rizzo over Aubrey. Maybe. H I don't know.
>> I don't know.
>> No, it doesn't matter. That's not That's not the right qu. So, it all comes down to Samotion. So, let's say Jonathan wins. They knock off Aubrey. That's where the game hinges. Aubrey was gone if she didn't win some motion. We all agree with that.
>> Well, if she loses fire.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Well, right. So then, right, then she's up against fire against >> Rizzo. Or no, honestly, probably against Joe. They probably Jonathan probably saves Rizzo because he knows Joe has a better shot to beat Aubrey and Fire.
>> Okay. So then, right, let's say Joe beats Aubrey and Fire.
>> So then you have those three. So I think it it all comes down that's Aubrey that is a $2 million win for her.
>> Yeah.
>> And that it was really that one moment.
It's whatever she spent. $40 on Etsy.
Best $40 she ever spent.
>> Best investment. Yeah. Best. Somebody is not charging enough for >> voting off Tiff.
>> That was a guess. I don't know.
>> Voting off Tiff. If their reasoning could have been she's more of a threat to win a challenge than Aubrey. And then Aubrey winning the final challenge is such a backfire. Man, >> it's tough.
>> Yeah, >> it's tough.
>> I mean that it's such a it's I I have to get I'll Hey, tip my cap to Aubrey.
Clutch as [ __ ] to win that. Like super super clutch.
>> I would have made the bet that she >> that goes into why I said like she did end up deserving like that win is hu but we'll get to that. Let's keep going through >> it is like it's wait how much do you wait one challenge even though it's but it's the last challenge the most important challenge.
>> I think when it's a challenge you literally have to win to save yourself in the game. It's got >> made it to the final five before the challenge.
>> Of course. Of course. Like it it's easy to hate on Aubrey for a lot of things.
She stepped up when it mattered the most.
>> I love that challenge, too. I just think that's the perfect survivor challenge.
>> Me, too.
>> Yeah. Me, too.
>> I think everybody's kind of involved and it's really I think concentration. It's hard to make a challenge where it's just like >> like concentration. Yeah.
>> Is the number one thing and it's not even really endurance. It's not athletic ability. Like it's just that's a very unique challenge and I love that they had it there all the time.
>> I I wish it could just become like the permanent like thing. It kind of had become the permanent like then but then last season they didn't do it >> right. What was last season? I couldn't remember but I know it wasn't.
>> I'm sure it was mud and puzzles or something.
>> Yeah. Um quick thing in the break. Sere gets the spirit of survivor award. Just a totally madeup thing to to give Siri. She does also win the se $100,000 to like you know credit to Siri. She's she's a legend. Um >> they gave her a [ __ ] Did you see that?
They awarded her with a [ __ ] Congratulations.
>> Congratulations, sir. Here's a lava [ __ ] >> Um, the final five challenge, Jonathan with one of the most insane performances. I mean, he struggled with the puzzle a little bit, but early on, I mean, even Jeff was like, it looks like Jonathan built and designed this challenge himself, almost knocking over the pole just with sheer strength. um ends up winning by like a second over Tiffany. Banging uh >> uh going nuts, banging the ground.
Here's something I thought. Jonathan winning that challenge over Tiffany by one second won Aubrey $2 million because if Tiffany wins that, she's safe. Aubrey goes home there instead of Tiffany. That it's just crazy to think the little things in Survivor if if Tiffany and it doesn't mean Tiffany would have won. Who knows what ends up happening. Maybe Jonathan wins. Maybe >> Aubrey would have won.
>> But we know Aubrey would have one. And like you know that that that's them's the breaks in Survivor sometimes. Like little things like that that you have no control over don't involve you at all.
One second was the reason that she won.
Like that that is pretty crazy.
>> Yeah. Uh I I was saying I wish Samotion in that challenge were flipped. I like when the final challenge you have to put everything on the line. I I know you guys all disagree, I think, but I like when the final challenge ma and it matters more than anything is a combination of physical, mental, and I think that's what that is like. It includes everything. Smotion, you're standing there left, right, left, right, which I think is a cool challenge for mental, but for it to be the most important of the entire game, I've never liked. I like when >> most fair like like IBody is on the level playing field.
>> I'm just saying I like I like challenges that are huge and take up like, you know, just every ounce of I mean, Jonathan was puking halfway through. I think that's what like a survivor challenge is. I like Simotion, but I think it's more of like a >> final eight type of challenge. Like left, right, left, right. All right, cool. Good challenge. I like when they have to >> so much more. I think the concentration involves like >> I I get it. I get I think it's to me like I know you're talking about at the end you want your like I get what you're saying where at the very end you want it to be all out but instead of being all out with your body this is a channel that's all out with your mind. It is like your mind is also exhausted after 25 days and like having to focus like that. I I don't know. I loveotions.
>> Also like the fact that it's a more even playing field like Jonathan's always going to be stronger than Aubrey but like they all in theory have the ability to concentrate.
>> Yeah. They have the ability to buy on Etsy.
>> And everybody who [ __ ] up in slow motion, like I'm sure they'd tell you it's like, "Yeah, I just had like a like a brain fart for like half a second."
Just like, "How long can you hold that off?"
>> I love it.
>> Um, so then it's pretty much Tiffany going home. Tiffany sort of giving some half-hearted please of like, "Hey, um, you know, Aubrey has got all these old seasons. People are going to reward that." She ends up being right. But Aubrey, you know, credit her. She did a good job where she was like, "There's times to call out. There's times to stay calm. I'm gonna stay calm. I'm gonna let Tiffany look like sort of the crazy one who's scrambling to save herself while Aubrey just kind of sat back. And then even a tribal like I can't remember if Final Five were just so obvious who was going home. Like Tiffany, it was like yeah, Tiffany's going home, right? And everyone's like, "Yeah." And she's like, "Listen, I felt managed and not considered. Um, basically just everybody admitting Tiffany. Everyone knows it.
Rizzo plays on himself. Tiffany goes home." You know, Tiffany Tiffany grew on me a lot this season. I think I think she probably grew on all of us. I like the way she fought at the end like and then just being like, you know, listen, hear me out. Um, she came off really likable. I think she was probably the number one on the cast where people were like, why is she on the cast? Jeff even asked her in between breaks. She was like, did you ever wonder you like why am I out here? Did you have imposter syndrome? Um, but yeah, I think she played well. Um, I think she's somebody that we'd probably see back on another season. Um, >> 100%. And uh yeah, >> didn't he even ask her? Did he Didn't he ask her that, Jeff?
>> She call you again. Can you come? She's like, "Absolutely."
>> Yeah, something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Um any final words on Tiffany?
>> Uh yeah, I think she got the most jib cuts from me uh all season. I horrible editing job they did with her. Like they cut her out the entire first half of the season. I think she she's very strong narrator, very funny. like she she's not even trying to like pander whatsoever.
Nothing's performative about her whatsoever. I hate when they do performative [ __ ] on Survivor. She doesn't have any of that in her. I I think she grew as a player. Like I I I really I I would love to see more people like Tiffany who aren't there for the Saab stories and the nonsense. She's just there to play and [ __ ] win.
>> Yeah, Tiff Tiffany's good. I'm sure we'll see her back.
>> I don't even know. I don't even know Tiffany's so story. Did she have one?
>> Yeah, I don't know.
>> Yeah, maybe 40 or 46. I don't remember.
Um, we get Mike White on Zoom says reveals White Lotus season 4. Two characters will be Charlie and Camila.
That almost is the benefit, I guess, of not making the jury where when you're prejury, you are isolated, right? Like the prejury does their own thing, the the jury does their own thing. So, he only had, you know, nine people to pick from of who he wants on. I'm shocked Q isn't getting a call personally if we're looking at those people that he spent time with. Um, or like Genevieve I could have seen, but yeah, Charlie and Camila, congratulations.
>> They didn't get like one line in the scene, right? Like it's not that big.
>> Yeah. No, it's not gives a [ __ ] Like I I really don't I mean it seemed like that's like John Rich saying like wasted time. I would have much rather heard about Survivor than people getting you know getting to say hey you on White Lotus.
>> It was very Jeff Probes like thank you Mr. Mike White Pink. All right. Yeah.
Like no time for that.
>> Yeah. But like it is a thing that was mentioned where it was like cuz cuz Christian and Angelina were on too. So like >> I don't know. I'm fine with it. It was 10 seconds and it was the payoff of like and White Lotus is is huge.
>> Like what? Yeah. If we spent 10 minutes previewing White Lotus season 4, I think that would have been an issue. Um >> uh All right. What else we got? Um, Aubrey, >> I don't know when it was. It was somewhere around here where Rizzo was doing his catchphrase while just absolutely sobbing.
>> Yeah, that was after this challenge. So, next Samotion where um, you know, they get this clue and it's like, what the [ __ ] does this clue even mean? Because they don't know if it's going to be fire making. They don't know what the final challenge is. Both things that are voted on in fans. Everyone pretty much wants Aubrey out and it's like, hey, we can't let Aubrey win this final challenge. She has a confessional which to me very much tipped off that she was going to win where it was like I've played 137 days of Survivor. I've won one of these challenges ever and like the only way to save myself is to win another. It was like oh this is perfectly setting up for her to probably win another right now.
Um so yes, I mean I feel like we we t tackled Smotion enough, but Aubrey wins five balls at the same time. Credit to everyone did a really good job. Um, and uh, Aubrey wins. 60% vote that it should be firemaking instead of a final four vote. I forget if we talked about this, but where do you guys stand on that? I agree with the fire making.
>> Me too.
>> I like fire making. I see no reason to ever not do fire making. At least yet.
>> Yeah, I I agree with it too. I guess I do. I don't know. I do because before I just think back before it was always the the best player would just get voted out fourth and that sucked. I guess this season the best player got voted out sixth. So I don't know. I don't know. I Yeah, I guess I'm I guess I'm pro fire, right? There's no better alternative, right? Like it I agree. Like it it too many times the best player just got voted out fourth. This gives them a fighting chance. Now you could say the best player would just get voted out fifth or sixth instead and it's fine.
you're more likely to have more good players later in the game than having like an trio. So, I like it. And listen, fire is like it's literally the [ __ ] catchphrase fire represents your life in this game. Like to me, it is the perfect sort of thing where it's like I guess I don't really care. Doesn't make you a better survivor player to build a fire faster, but I don't know. Survivor is such a part of the game where it's like you have to be able to do it. So, >> I hate it when they introduced it. I'm like, "No, you got to get voted out."
Like, I was very fir. But then, like, as time has gone on, I'm like, "You know what? Like, I'm wrong. Like, this is this is the best way to do it." I think I don't like it. I don't love it, but unless someone has a better idea, like >> crawl through the mud and make a puzzle.
>> I kind of like I actually kind of love this from Josh Hart fan. Change the final immunity to something else and then make the duel compete in Samotion.
Like instead of fire, have that.
>> I [ __ ] love this [ __ ] samotion.
>> I'd rather not fire.
>> Fire is more intrinsic to like surviving.
>> Yes, right.
>> Instead of torches, they put out a samotion. Like, no more Samotion.
>> I likeotion. I loveotion.
>> Um, but yeah, so it is final four.
Aubrey reveals like, "Yeah, I ordered some emotion on Etsy." And she's worried about Rizzo. She's like, "I'm thinking about stories and narratives. I'm the underdog. I don't want Rizzo to be on their dog story. Uh, she tells Joe she's taken him. Poor Joe, man. Joe just never a chance to ever >> the first time we've said his name in an hour or 35 minutes. Like, and he was in the final three. What a what a [ __ ] bum of a Survivor player Joe is. Nothing about his real life. Firefighter, family, man, whatever. Absolute waste of a Survivor player. I did like Emily talking about like when they jo the jersey she's like I guess every vote was run through Joe. So like has Joe cracked the code to Survivor? It's it's tough.
Also like Serene let's say let's save the Joe talk for final track. Let's just get through this quick because I have some things I want to talk about. But uh Aubrey saves Joe. It's Jonathan versus Rizzo. This is when where you were talking about Nate where Rizzo was like all GD where's God baby. I like that. I thought that was nice. Uh >> he's on his last dying breath, tears running down his eyes and he's >> Yeah, it felt like he was going to give up at some point. And then Joe, I mean, credit to Joe, >> terrible Survivor player, great guy.
Like J seems like such a great guy and like helping Roselle be I can't [ __ ] watch this kid struggle like this. Helps him, tries to give him a fighting chance. Um, but they go to to Final Tribal and or whatever to tribal and Jonathan just smokes him. It's not even close. Like >> I make fun of Joe a lot in the show for playing with sand and just just being Joe. But like I wouldn't say like he seems like such a good guy. Like I would like he would be I think just like a great guy to like hang out with and know personally. Yeah. He'd be like the perfect neighbor. Like Joe, dude, >> he is the perfect neighbor. like you could trust him with stuff like you know he'd be a great guy just to talk to you I know outside the you know when you walk out if you happen to leave for work together like I don't know like but man oh man this just isn't his I say it's not his game but he always makes it to the end so I don't know >> so here's the thing not only and I love that comparison so much because like I don't want Joe being like my best friend but a neighbor where like I can talk to him like like and he'll like shovel your driveway and everything like for sure >> and like he's just a good person like you know he Here's why.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Well, we said and here's why he gets the end. And we said this, >> I think going into this season, too, when we did the preseason thing with Fishbach. Not only is Joe a great neighbor, he's the perfect ally. Like, he is the perfect person to align with in Survivor. If you had to build somebody in a lab to align with the survivor, you would choose like a strong guy who's going to be good in challenges but also super loyal and you know is not like maybe he'll lie a little bit but he's not going to be very good at it.
Like you know he's gonna genuinely look out for you when he can. Like he is the perfect ally. He's not a threat to win at the end. Joe could play survivor a hundred times. He probably goes to final tribal council and loses 80 of those times. Like it's like that is exactly what Joe's arc should always be. He's not going to be voted out premerge because he's good at challenges. He's not going to be voted out pmer merge because he's not a strategic threat or a threat to win. He's just going to go to the end and he's not going to win. It it is it is like the perfect I' there's never been a Survivor player who is so perfectly aligned with like a specific placement and story arc that I think Joe is with getting to final tribal counsel and losing.
>> You you know how it's a copycat league in Survivor. I'm now worried we're going to get an influx of Joe's. Like guys who and girls who just will not play the game and they just want to Joe their way to the end. I'm terrified that Joe has created a monster of Joe type characters because like it's like you're right Tommy like there's no he he'll build a fire. He'll pick up some sticks like and then you the thing is you could get some Siri despised him like absolutely hated his guts for being that. I bet you there in in your 100 scenarios he does get voted off because people like Si just [ __ ] hate him.
>> Funny message in the chat Josh Hard fan if everyone on vacation for a week Joe would protect my mail with all his life.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. So let me ask you guys this.
So, if Joe would make it to the finals, say 80% of the time, which I think Tommy is not entirely wrong with that, >> is Joe a good Survivor player?
>> No.
>> Yeah.
>> That's my worry. That's my worry.
>> But, but he makes it to the end every time.
>> It's almost like he should be penalized.
Joe types should be penalized in the game for being Joe.
>> But they're not though. That's the game.
>> But no, but Nate, is he a good survivor player?
>> I kind of think he is.
>> I kind No. To be a good survivor player, you have to be able to win. Joe cannot win.
>> No, to be a great survivor player, you have to win.
>> Yeah, he's a good survivor player.
>> ALL SURVIVOR PLAYERS don't win. Sur never won.
>> Here's Joe and three have similar resumes.
>> They really I mean Joe is better.
>> If you break up if you break up surviv Well, now that's crazy. But if you break up strategy into three parts, social, strategic, and physical. He's a good great physical player. A good a good social player. obviously rubs some people the wrong way with the jotation and stuff, but for the most part like is a good guy, awful strategic player, but he's like twothirds of a pretty good survivor player. Like, you know, like people who get voted out first all the time, like they're terrible survivor players or there's no social game. They bring nothing to the table. He's not a good new school survivor player. He's not a good strategic survivor player.
But you have to realize that like not everyone thinks of of the game exactly how we do. There are people like a Stephanie who appreciate that old school gameplay. So when you take all that into account, yeah, he's a he's a good he's a good >> He's never been voted out. He's never been voted out. He's played twice. Once against the greatest players ever assembled, he's never voted out.
>> Here's a question, Clemer. If >> graded out playing out last horrible if if an NBAbody >> if an NBA team makes the playin game every year for 20 years, are they a good NBA team?
No, they go to the finals and lose.
Yeah, >> conference finals.
>> I'll even give you the conference finals. If a team goes to the NBA conference finals for 10 straight years and >> they're a good team, >> but what if they're only in the conference finals because they have no chance of winning the final?
>> Well, that's >> that's not that doesn't make any sense.
But but he's played twice. He's never voted out. He's a good Survivor player.
>> There's something to be said.
>> He just he's he's unable to be great.
He'll never be great.
>> Correct. But he'll always be good, which is bizarre.
>> I will stand on that. He He is not a >> to make the final three because you're bad at Survivor does not make you a good Survivor player.
>> I don't make the final three, you're not bad at Survivor.
>> I don't think it's so bad that they bring you to the final three. That's the whole point of it.
>> Listen, you can maybe make that argument this year. That is not what happened last year. Season 48 or season 48, he did not get dragged to the end. like he got his alliance to the end and then Kyle was also there and beat him. So this year you could say more that he got dragged to the end. Yes. I you can't say that about season 48. Season 48 he was like the the main person in like his honor alliance.
>> Yeah.
>> Joe Joe is a good Samar player.
>> I hate you.
>> Um Joe's James Harden. I kind of like that. Absolutely incredible.
Um, he's just standing there. Let's give Rizzo his his proper flowers here because Rizzo loses um >> Rizzo loses uh fire, goes home. I think Rizzo, I mean, for what what a last year this must have been for him to go from just a super fan like us probably listening to [ __ ] snuffing torches to like being on season 49, season 50, becoming allies with Siri and Azie, and then taking them both out, voting them both out, getting to the end. Like, I feel like he had a big blow up on social media, too. People loving the RZ god stuff more so this season. Um it's it's you know I mean I talk about it all the time but like dream come true like like literally like you can't ask for um a better arc than Roso obviously would have liked to win but he says he wanted to leave his mark on Survivor. I think he definitely left his mark on Survivor.
I think he's a great player. He can't make fire for the [ __ ] life of him.
But I think we said this at one point he is almost new school suresque of like getting people on his side in a subtle way. getting people to do what they want in a subtle way where it's not like, oh, he's this strategic mastermind like a Boston Rob or a Tony Blatos, but he's great in confessionals. He's charismatic. Now, it is interesting that it feels like both seasons people have been like, "Oh, he wasn't going to win.
He wasn't going to win." But I do think there will be another level to him where he can put it all together. He reminds me of Spencer Bledsoe in some ways where he was like a young kid, big fans, uh, went to the end a couple times, didn't end up winning. But I think we could see an evolved Rizzo in a few years come back and and put it all together and win. Um, but yeah, credit to Rizzo.
Great guy. Obviously, we've met him in person, too. Super nice. And, uh, you know, for him, I it's got to be just like such a surreal thing for the past year. He's been on TV living out his dream. Credit to him.
>> When it's all said and done, Rizzo might end up being the guy that spends the most days on the island. Yeah, he's >> I think he's gonna come back like a couple more times.
>> They're never gonna not >> that only because of um the 39 days to 26 >> maybe, but I think he might come back enough to equalize some of that.
>> Aubrey's played 137 days. Rizzo would have to play >> Rizzo's already played what? 50 >> So he's got to play he's got to play three more times where he goes to the end every single >> That's tough. That's tough. Yeah, I do I do think I I think you're gonna see a thing though where Rizzo is one of those guys that are on that leaderboard. I think Rizzo is gonna play this game because he loves it so much and he's still so young and he's obviously really good at it. I think you're gonna like the next 20 years we keep doing this show, we'll be talking about Rizzo in like 20% of the seasons or, you know, 16% of the seasons or something like that.
>> And they definitely love if he's gonna play.
>> Yeah.
>> They they love that he's like a tick tocker. He He's kind of like this like young face of the new era player.
>> Yeah. Like >> which >> should be Kyle. Kyle got so [ __ ] with his torn Achilles man. Like he's such like a perfect Survivor player and I I hate that we didn't get to see him play this season. Him and Genevieve I'm just such big fans of and she gets [ __ ] by Billy Isish so hard.
>> So you're right about Kyle. Kyle should be the face of the new era. the best player of the new era.
>> Yeah, >> that's exactly what I was gonna say. I think we had a discussion a few years a few weeks ago where is Rizzo the best player of the new era? I don't think he's the best player of the new era. I think I'd give that to Kyle. I think Rizzo is the face of the new era. I when we look at that like we look at Russell Hance was the face of his era, right?
Boston Rob, Tony, all these people been the faces of their era. I think Rizzo will be like the the face of the 40s.
And you know, I thought Sophie, uh, little Sophie, uh, like Roso's friend Sophie could I I was surprised she didn't get off. Like, >> what's that >> from last season?
>> Yeah, >> I bet she gets the call back for the next >> I think she's pretty I don't know how great of a player she was, but she's an interesting character that I get back.
>> She should have been on instead of [ __ ] charm.
>> I could see Rizzo, Sophie, and me all in the same season.
>> Rizzo, Sophie, and who know you?
Yeah, maybe Jesse fans verse favorites.
We'll see. Hey Roso, maybe me and Rizzo we we we battle in fire one day. That'd be special.
>> You go on for 12 years.
>> Uh yeah, it really would.
>> That's how Rizzo ends up getting the most days in the island. He just plays you and fire for like 100 days.
>> It literally goes on. Um okay, so uh yeah, end it with that. Uh Rizzo, great job. And we'll have Rizzo on Stuffing Torches for sure. Either next season or hell, maybe we do an offseason pod with him and recap the last year of his life has been like. Um, all right. Next. Um, blah blah blah. Oh, yeah. Jeff, we played it off well with the uh sneak peek thing reflecting. I thought Rizzo, thank you for believing in me. Oh, and then this one. This was unspoiled for me. The family visit at final three.
What a lovely little treat that was. I thought that was lovely.
>> Very nice.
>> That was good. I like that.
>> Joe's wife, Crazy Tall, WNBA player.
>> Clap.
>> I felt it kind of got buried in the finale. Like it was it was quick and usually it's like a huge big thing and I felt like they kind of like shoved it in between commercial breaks like kind of randomly. Thought it was kind of strange.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean also it makes sense um doing it this because like if their concern is budget of flying out whatever nine people and you know having it be the final three where it's like I don't think they could ever do it again where it's a surprise like that final three but I think for season 50 like season 40 they flew everybody's family out.
>> Yeah, but they would have had to fly other people out, right? Like I'm guessing Rizzo's family was there.
>> Oh, true. Good point.
>> Takes time. You don't go there overnight.
>> Yeah, it's it's so Yeah, Rizzo I honestly even bet Tiffany's family was there. I think I've read something that they did it a few seasons where they fly out like the final four's family and then you don't even get to see your family. Like they they keep you separated.
>> Oh.
>> Yeah. Crazy. I thought I thought that was nice. And like >> did you see the >> Sorry.
>> You mentioned Tiffany. The the Tiffany uh elf commercial.
>> What?
>> Do you know what I'm talking about? They did they did a commercial with Tiffany >> and somebody else too. and somebody else. And it was like a makeup commercial in the middle of the whole episode.
>> Yeah, it was like a tiein. They had like two Survivor players.
>> That cracked me up because it was her and Delaney.
Do you guys know Delaney?
>> That name sounds familiar. Anyway, that that commercial cracked me up because they were doing the thing where Delaney was like in camouflage because of her makeup >> and she was like hiding behind trees and nobody could see her.
>> I saw I didn't really understand.
Anyway, I didn't see I didn't see.
Anyway, if anybody here is watching that, it was cracking me up because like the whole thing was her being like camouflaged like hiding in the bushes and she was like sniping like this big group of like six or seven people talking about like how we're definitely voting this girl out. And then she's like looking at the camera being like, "Yeah, I [ __ ] got him." But the whole time it's just like, "You're just being voted out, [ __ ] Like, why are you in your [ __ ] camouflage? You're not doing anything." That commercial cracked me up. This would have hit harder if it was right after the episode.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I watched on Paramount.
>> That That cracked me up. I was like, well, this is just the worst Survivor player of all time, right? So, anyway, move on.
>> I I think I was actually going to give some flowers to Aubrey where like when her mom came out, I thought it was the most human. Like I think one reason that we don't like Aubrey, the audience doesn't resonate with Aubrey is that she's kind of a boring player to watch, right? But I thought it was very human where she was like, "Do you know how much it sucks to lose Survivor?" And some people be like, "Oh yeah, like you should have won." And then ultimately people are like, "No, you shouldn't have because you're a bad social player."
Like people don't like you and that's why you didn't win Survivor. And like having that weigh on her for 10 years.
Like I don't know that to me I was like, "Yeah, that probably [ __ ] sucks." And I don't think Aubrey is a bad person by any means. We've said this. I think she's not an exciting survivor player to watch and it doesn't like like >> it's mentioned so much that Deans plays with joy, right? Aubrey is the anti Devons. She plays with zero joy. But I do think she played a good game this time and I thought that was I think that was the most humanized in her 137 days of playing. I thought that was the most humanized that she's ever been.
>> Yeah, she's she's not a sense of humor go with the flow type of player. She's just Yeah, she's just Aubrey. She's >> she's not fun to watch, >> right? That that's >> at the end of the day, it is like an entertainment product. We're all watching it. You know, people are home from work, they're watching, they want to have fun. She's not fun to watch.
Doesn't mean she's not good at the game.
She is, but she's just not really fun to watch.
>> She did win me over. Not like all the way, but like a little bit more every episode this season.
>> That's fair.
>> But by the end, >> late in the game.
>> Yeah, late in the game.
>> Got a really good edit maybe. But >> yeah, >> but I was able to buy into her story more than I ever thought I would be able to.
>> Totally agree. Totally agree.
>> This season was hard because you had so many players that are fun to watch. And then you had Aubrey. So she really stuck out like a sore thumb. Like like just because like you just didn't want to see her. I want to see more Colobby. I want to see more Si. I want to see more RZ. I want to see fun players. I don't want to see Aubrey. Um but she obviously deserved to be there. She won.
>> And this is this is a good way and it was even talk talked about at Final Tribal. who's reactionary versus driving in a game. That is a way to play. Like you know, you think of a Tony, a Boston, a Kim Bradlin, a Parvity. They drive the game.
>> Even I think Siri is more like Aubrey. I guess Siri does drive the game too, but >> she drives the social game.
>> Yeah, she drives in a very in a very subtle way. Uh Aubrey is very good though at reacting to what happens. Like Sandra, I honestly think she's pretty similar to Sandra where Sandra >> never drove the votes, but and that is a skill. You know, it's not the the greatest entertaining game to watch, but it is a skill in Survivors. You have to react to the pieces that or the cards you get dealt. Um >> I don't like reactionary players then because I don't like Sandra and like I don't really like Aubrey. Like on Survivor, I'm sure Aubry's a nice person, but like on Survivor, I don't really like watching.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, that's fair. In real life though, if you're like trying to survive on a deserted island, >> that's probably smarter to like be reactionary than try to like control.
There's got to be a balance.
>> Middle players do nothing for me. Just just I >> I won so many of these.
>> It's such a cowardly way of playing. I'd rather die.
>> Well, I you guys just not not you guys.
I think a lot of people in general like I we've come to this like conclusion that like this is like what makes a good survivor play.
>> I know >> when if Survivor is supposed to be like surviving on an island, I don't think that's what a good survival I know, but it kind of >> it kind of is.
>> It It's It's undeniably part of the game quite literally, but it's not. They all survive on the like you can't be wrong.
>> The first season it balanced out. Well, ju just imagine instead of voting them out there eating them for food.
>> I get what John Rich is saying where if you're going to eat you're going to kill and eat the most aggressive player, you're going to kill and eat the most worthless player. So if you just stay in the middle, you have no reason to be killed and eaten. I'd rather survivor >> I'd rather be killed and eaten playing aggressive than win playing like a [ __ ] middleman. That's all.
>> I would rather win. No, >> I'd rather win. No, the game of the game is to win.
>> Die a hero.
But like I think that that is the issue is too many people like think that that is how you play survivors to make that big move and but like it rarely works out. Who was it >> this year? Or the example I always think of is like Denise in season 40 when she takes out Sandra with the idols, right?
Great move, great TV move, great game move, but guess what that happened at final 14 I believe or something like that and like the rest of the game she had a huge target on her back. There is a skill in peaking at the right time.
Like I hate to say it, Maryanne is the person that I think comes to mind where like >> she played she played awful, but she did like two things at final five and final six and like won her the game. You know what I mean? Like there is it's doesn't make for great TV, but >> Aubrey kind of >> also at the end of the day Survivors it's a it's a person game. Like we could talk strategy, physical, survival. It's it's a game of people. I think Kyle laid it out really well last season or this season. He's like it's a social game.
It's about getting people to like you basically. Aubrey doesn't really do that, I guess. But she did a better job of it this season than like Jonathan did. Like Jonathan I thought had a really compelling case where he was like I came out or last time everyone's like just these big this big piece of meat and this time I learned a more strategic and social game. Joe's story. So this I want to talk about Joe. He was like hey everyone knows this honor and integrity and then merge I became more of a liar.
Did he like what were Joe's li strategic moves?
>> I I I honestly I I don't remember really anything Joe did strategically maybe because now we're a couple weeks removed but like I don't know >> Joe was there other people's ideas.
>> Um so we get to final travel council it's those three. Um, I'm going to grab a I need a water quickly, but if someone wants to take the lead, I'm start with coach's first question where it's like what what part of the game >> We're going to wait for you, Tommy.
>> No, you're not going to wait for me.
What part when coach >> No, you know what, Tommy? I'm gonna give you a water. You get me a water.
>> I get you a water.
>> I got you.
>> I will say one thing about the the thing that I don't like is I don't like um that there's no opening statements anymore. I I think it is absolutely insane to have no closing state or or give them one or the other. Give them an opening statement or a closing statement. I think >> Yeah.
>> I I I think they should each be able to lay out their case and then field questions.
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> They should have both.
>> Yeah. I think you should have both. If I had to choose one, I think I would choose closing statement because it'll be the most fresh in people's minds before they vote of here is >> everything from game, here's everything from final tribal council and here's me rehashing all of it. I think they need both, but if I could choose one, I would choose the closing statement.
>> But then, so did you like coach's first question?
>> Yeah, I did. When he said, "What's something from real life that you had to compromise?" Joe says, "Honor and integrity." Um, whatever. Aubrey said, "The fear of not letting hurting people affect your game." Jonathan says, "I thought Jonathan here >> I thought this was honestly one of the better final tribal council area uh answers I remember. I thought Jonathan's answer here was really good where it was like everybody got a different side of me where that is what is. It's like you have to figure out what people need to hear, right? And you need to tell them what they need to hear." So Jonathan was like, "Coach, you need to hear about honor and integrity." So, I played an honor and integrity game with you, Azie.
You played a more emotional game. I needed to be more emotional with you. I thought for a second I was like, "Oh, Jonathan might I thought the rest of his final travel council performance was not as good." But I thought that opening question was was or that opening answer was great from Jonathan.
>> I agree.
>> Yeah, >> I agree. But but I do think it would make I think it may make a little bit more sense if the questions I mean you obviously have like a handful of questions coming in but they should kind of be based off what the player >> Thank you >> thinks they did to win.
>> Say that again.
>> Like like their questions like I would I would rather hear Joe lay out his case for why he thinks he can win and then have people kind of formulate their questions around that.
Yeah, I I think that's fair too. Nate, we were just praising Jonathan's first answer for to coach where he was like, "Everyone got a different side of me.
Coach or coach, he got an honor integrity side." Aussie got emotional. I said I thought it was one of the best final travel counselor answers I remember in a while.
>> Yeah. No, he killed final travel like he he >> I thought he weaker as it went on. He got weaker as it went on. That was a good first question.
>> No, no, no.
>> First um then there's really this whole argument basically over who got Azie out. Was it Jonathan? Was it Aubrey?
Jonathan says it was his idea. Aubrey's like, "No, Joe didn't want to do it until Azie told me his whole game." And I told Joe about that. And then ultimately, I think a tipping point was I forget who asked it, but it was like, "Hey, Joe, what actually mattered? Why'd you actually vote uh Azie out?" And he said Aubrey. And I think that that honestly was a huge point for Aubrey.
>> It should have done the reverse because you just Joe has no idea what he's talking about at any given moment. So, they should have taken that like opposite. I'd rather Can we just talk about Joe?
>> Sure, >> please.
>> I'd love to.
>> He got so dogwalked at Final Tribal that I actually felt bad for him where like they were like patting him on the head like I guess we have to let Joe answer a question now. He was so pathetic and just so bad at final travel. I mean, I went to get you a water, Tommy. By the way, we have zero water in this office.
I had to take it from the green room.
was awkward because like they're doing like interviews, but it was just >> uh I just I like Joe should have got up and sat with the jury. Like he he just didn't there was no reason for him. And then Serei just ripping into Joe. I I was stunned by that. Absolutely stunned where she's like, "Joe, we had to babysit you the entire show.
>> Every vote went through you because like we were worried that you were going to be a little baby about every vote." So, I don't think Joe deserved that. But it goes back to Clemer like is Joe a good player? No. Absolutely 0% good player.
>> But yeah, but who? Yeah, but everyone asked him those si was asking him questions >> because he was there. He was still in the game >> and and Joe, poor Joe at Final Tribal.
Joe was like they asked him, I think somebody asked him like what kind of mistakes you make or what mistake you make and he started listing off like several mistakes.
with >> where do I start?
>> And they also asked like what I think someone said like what was the solo move you had to make and he was like I don't really have any but but here's all my mistakes.
>> I stretched the truth to somebody one time.
>> Oh Joe I don't I mean also I mean Stephanie just wants to climb Jonathan more than Nate does being like you're the total package. You are the total package. We're like Tiffany and D were like all right Stephanie [ __ ] rap.
wildly uncomfortable.
>> Chrissy was just as bad.
>> Yeah, but like yes, the it was obviously it was the coach like the the old honor and integrity lines of like coach Chrissy um Stephanie and Jonathan, they were all on his name, but like yeah, I mean Joe Stephanie even writing down like the total package of Jonathan. It was it was a little I don't know if Stephanie's married, but if I was her husband watching, I'd be like >> Stephanie, what the hell?
>> It it was like rousini, right? It was so like just uncomfortable to watch. Like I as a as a Jonathan Dick Rider, I was like, "This is ridiculous what's happening right now." He couldn't have been I in postgame interviews, he's like that didn't help me at all what she was doing up there. Like if she was trying to sway votes, she did the opposite.
>> What What is Stephanie's last name?
>> Her original last name. Survivor icon Stephanie Lagrosa has been married to former Philadelphia Phillies pitcher Kyle Kendrick since November 13th.
>> Oh, that does sound familiar.
>> So, so also if we're doing the Diana Rousini comps, married or Italian girl from New Jersey married to guy from Philly.
>> Yeah, quite quite quite spot on. Uh uh where else did I have I want to say?
Uh oh, the Jonathan saying he planned the D blow up.
>> I was confused by that. What?
>> He was a year ago.
>> He He did. I mean, he moment.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That does sound familiar now.
>> Yeah.
>> Remember like he was in the hammock and like she was freaking out.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, and then credit to uh uh Christian, I thought really a great story, a great question about like what's your story? I think it's something that we've sort of hinted at ear all season long is we were like, hey, people are not just going to vote on on your game and what happened in those last 26 days. They are going to vote for your story, whether it's Survivor 50 and every season you've played before that. Whether we want to say that's a fair way to honor the game in this era, I don't know. That that's up to you. But I think that it was a great question. I think Aubrey's answer, dare I say, gave me goosebumps. I thought she she might have won the game with her answer there.
>> It it we could go in circles for hours about is it fair to vote on a a a decade long story and not just the immediate game that was just played. I don't know if there's a right answer because ultimately when the jury has known you for 10 years and you're planning vacations with Siri like it definitely sways the vote. S like Siri Sherei and Aubrey are friends. It's if it's a there's some inflection point where like let's say she thought she didn't but let's say she thought Jonathan played a 10% better game. She's still going to give her vote to Aubrey because that's her friend and it's $2 million. So it like is it unfair? I don't know how to use the word fair when it comes to Survivor cuz it just like is what it is.
They have previous relationships. It definitely goes into the jury's mind.
You're not going to get Siri to vote against her giving her friend $2 million. You're just not.
>> And I think that's always going to be a part of returning player seasons where outside is going to bleed into like the game itself. I think that's why like that'll never happen. If it's all new people, that's never going to be a thing because everyone's story is, "Hey, this is my first time playing Survivor," but that is always and like, yeah, we could argue whether it's good or not, but it is a part of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, it I saw a lot of conversation because Sheree gave an interview where she said, "I voted for I don't know the word she used. I should have saved it. Legacy or something like that. I she didn't vote for best player.
She voted for best legacy." And she said it in an interview and people were pissed about that. And then it's just like maybe that's just like what it is on a season like 50. Like it maybe that is part of the game at this point. Is it unfair >> to a guy like Rizzo they they they said it multiple times to the camera like we don't like this little scrappy little kid who we haven't seen play before. Just it's part of the game.
>> It's a good point from Larry where this is the best or this is why second chance is the best returning theme. Everyone's on the same level with legacies. You could say even the all winner in season 40. everyone pretty much on the same ex I guess Sandra at that point had two wins but uh yeah that is how you got to do or yeah where nobody's won um but >> that still hurts people who are more recent winners because they have less time to build friendships in theory that's true like it's just it just unfortunately it's just like kind of like it is what it is like >> and it's not going to you can't change that so I don't I don't know >> it requires crazy good gameplay to like make it so that Siri can't influence a jerk. Like it it's and then it it's almost impossible like especially when you have an Emily flipping who's not going to vote, you know, like it's just it is. Yeah. I don't know. It it sucks.
Like it it's such an uphill battle >> and it's why Rizzo was so good at get, you know, at managing everybody's different styles of play. Like we saw he started with Kobe and he then he got on the alliance with Siri and Azie. like he had the right idea. Unfortunately, it it was almost impossible to like actually get to the final against someone who wasn't going to have a better legacy than him, especially when they hadn't even seen him play before.
>> Um, anything else from Final Travel? I was going to say I loved coach's suit and was like, "You guys freaking slayed when he went up there to vote." Uh, but anything else from Final Travel Council?
I thought it was pretty decent Final Travel Council. better than I feel like a lot of the new era ones are like total garbage. Not an alltime one. There's not like an alltime moment I can remember from it, but overall it was I thought it was pretty good.
>> Is an alltime moment of the whole finale.
>> Yeah, >> I think that I almost feel like if we would have done this podcast immediately after the show, we would have spent so much more time on Jeff spoiling >> throw that out there. D looked unbelievable as always. D just slang. Um leaving no crumbs. Uh then we get back to the live. It's pretty quick. Aubrey wins 73. The three Aub three Jonathan votes come from Stephanie. Coach >> 83, right?
>> Oh, sorry. 83. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, Joe and Joe. Well, 83 zero because Joe got zero votes.
>> Yeah, that's true.
>> That's your That's your king, Clemer.
That's >> Never said that. I said he's good.
How many How many votes Sheree get, Nate?
>> How many Hey, same number as Joe, >> right?
>> Uh, good. Yeah, you're putting too much emphasis on good, Nate. Like, he's a good survivor.
>> He's a good player. He's not great.
>> He's not a good player.
>> He's not.
>> Never been bored out. It's pretty good to me.
>> It's Chris.
>> I mean, >> uh, >> Jonathan, I mean, you must have been ready to give him a hug. Jonathan looked so sad at the live finale last night. I thought he looked so [ __ ] sad. Like, it was all I could focus on was how sad Jonathan looked.
>> I It It hurts me to do this, but I don't have I I'm fair. I'm always fair, especially about Jonathan. He's been doing this whole woe is me tour, podcast tour, where Jonathan like let it go. Like, you you got second. It's a good effort. It's a good showing. like he he's kind of soiling everything like he he's just >> Have you guys seen these clips?
>> Yeah, I've seen >> he put a smile on his face since the finale. He's just so down in the dumps about it. And right like I do think he played a better game than Aubrey.
>> He could have played better. Like he could have done things differently. Like even the stuff we saw him eating the right like putting his tongue in the rice. Little things like that. They all think he's like this like misogynist. I maybe he could have like just done stuff differently, but he's he needs to just be a a better loser. Like he he's been very woe is me for the last week.
>> Yeah.
>> Yep.
>> Uh what was Oh, the car. Aubrey running to the car. Also like just salt in the wound that the winner I guess it's it's a good way to do it. you don't want to give it to someone during the season and it's like that influence like they said the curse where you win the car that sort of curses you but it was just funny like here's so it's a million dollars actually aubrey here's an extra million dollars because of a coin flip and also here's a car I thought it took her so long to find the car uh anything else from their >> also like she looked like she just looked like she'd never seen a car before she's LIKE HAS A STEERING wheel >> like put on like I was almost like is this an act what she's doing like you have $2 million. Be more excited about that than a [ __ ] car.
>> Very weird just reaction to a car.
>> Um, anything else from the reunion mini reunion show before we talk about season 51 and the open era?
>> Um, no.
>> Okay.
Um um people were saying it would have been like an alltime move if if Rizzo used his idol on uh to save Tiff, but you can't use Billy Isish idols on other people.
>> I think that stipulation that you can't play an idol on someone else is the worst thing they did on Survivor 50. You should like idols. You should always >> Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon.
>> Huh?
The Jimmy Fallon is the worst thing they did on Survivor F.
>> Yes. Jimmy Fallon. The Jimmy Fallon thing was >> No, because the Billy Isish idol, they said Billy isish idol every single time.
They weren't allowed to say idol.
Billyish doesn't give a [ __ ] about Survivor. She had no idea about anything on the show. And then Genevieve found two idols, didn't get to keep any, and then she gets voted off. And then you not even allowed to save someone with an idol that you find. I think they totally dropped the ball on that. I [ __ ] hate it. I hope they never ever do a boomerang idol ever again. I think it ru didn't ruin 50. But it definitely Genevieve she said in an interview she's never going to play again. She's like I I she's so distraught from like what happened to her on this season. She doesn't even want to play again. She's a really good player.
>> It stink. The Billy titles ended up stinking. I I agree. But if I have to choose what's worse, literally having to vote for yourself and telling everyone does does take the cake for me.
having to read your like your death certificate in front of everybody. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Is crazy.
>> Uh but yeah, so this open era. So it starts with two tribes. Cast looks like it is right back to where we were in the 40s of of all these like nerdy type super fans. I don't see a lot of Jonathans or Davids on this cast. David >> a pro wrestler.
Wait, I didn't see the >> Yeah, I'm just judging based on the um based on the >> big wand guy, right? Am I remembering this?
>> Yeah. Uh listen, I I don't know what this the open era. I kind of don't really understand exactly what that means. It's like anything that's ever been used before as part of the game. It seems like it's going to be a ton of twists. It seems like it like that was sort of my takeaway is >> going to buckle up. Is it just going to be a ton of twists where it's like anything that happened can happen at any point?
>> I'm not I mean, listen, I don't want to judge it yet because we haven't seen a second of it. But if that's what it's going to be, if it's going to be the same type of cast and more twists, I'm not excited for the open era. Again, I feel like we say it every time, so we're blue in the face. What makes Survivor good is the cast. It is the players. It is the people. It is not the twists and everything like that. If you are, if you want to, you know, help survivor, then cast differently. Don't keep tinkering with the game. The game itself is the greatest game ever created. You can tinker with it here and there. Some things hit, some things don't. But >> to just make it like, hey, the the game changes like every single time. To me, it takes away from can't change the rules of like, oh, actually this touchdown is worth four points instead of six in the middle of an NFL game, you know? Like what makes NFL game good is is really good players on both sides.
>> Jeff Pro's great host needs to hand over the keys of showrunner because everybody is like, "How about Survivor 51? Back to the basics." He's like, "I have an idea.
Survivor 51. Every twist imaginable."
It's it's the opposite of what the fans want.
>> Every twist he throws at the wall.
>> I mean, what what's the ratio now? 80 to 20 stink to good. Like it just let them play Survivor, Jeff. Let them play. Like just let them play Survivor.
>> Said he was handing over some of those EP responsibilities. I don't know if that's true. I saw that a few weeks ago.
Uh yeah, I like I said, I don't want to judge it yet because we haven't seen it.
But but if I'm judging it off the 60-cond snippet we have, doesn't seem great.
>> I We're gonna be so angry.
>> I've got a list here of rumored cast. I don't know how legit this is.
>> If it's from inside Survivor, it's probably right.
>> We We've got It's from Spoiled Survivor, but um we we've got a sex store owner, we've got two farmers, we've got a pro wrestler, an airport operations guy who looks like a character, uh an assistant director, a baseball operations.
>> I like that.
>> Um who are the other ones?
>> Yeah, Michael Pinsky.
>> I think those are the main personal trainer, >> OBGYn, >> an Dublin iron, a Dublin Ireland, Puerto Rican influencer.
>> Love that.
>> So, >> Michael Pinsky works for the Yankees.
>> Is that what it Okay. Yeah, I He's from New York. Yeah.
>> Wow. Princeton University.
>> Interesting job title somewhere.
>> What is it? Mike Pinsky.
>> There's two farmers. I love farmers.
>> We got two farmers. I do like farmers and a assistant director of baseball operations for the New York Yankees from New York City, New York. Intern for the Nationals. Uh degree in psychology from Princeton University will be on the cast. Interesting.
>> There's an actor.
>> So, this I like the look of this guy, Devin Wei, just just this hot guy. It says actor and model from Texas. Got his big break playing Blake Sims and Grey's Anatomy.
>> That I like. Like, get people who aren't fans. Like that's what like David was a great I think David was the greatest casting of the new era where he literally applied for the wrong [ __ ] show. So get people who are not just super fans and even though I know it's ironic for me to say as a super fan but mix them in. Um >> from mommy Ohio. That's where I'm from.
Let's go.
>> Any final words on season 50?
>> Uh really good season. Didn't love how they kind of landed the plane. But all in all, I give the season a B+.
>> John. Yeah, >> I'd go B.
>> I I >> I wanted the ending to be better, but >> yeah, it's a B. I It's so easy to nitpick Jimmy Fallon and Billy Isish.
>> Those didn't really affect >> Zack Brown's whole episode. Um, sometimes less is more. I think 50 it could have been so much better, but it was fine.
>> Yeah, I'd say overall good. I'm interested to see how it like ages. Um, how like we'll look back on it. Uh, but I think it gave us some high highs. The Mr. Beast thing, I think the coin flip highlight of the season. Seri going far.
Great. We get some coach. We get Azie going far. Going home with an idol in his pocket again. Obviously, there are the misses with some of the twists, the Christian, the >> great like premerge stuff. Colby and Rizzo and there was just some good there was some really good premerge stuff. the show.
>> It was a good >> It was a really good trip down memory lane of like Survivor and also I always talk about, you know, the cultural zeitgeist. I think it got back this season. I think it like there's people even in our office that I know never watched Survivor before talking about how they're watching it on TikTok. I see a lot of stuff Survivor I think it did a good job if that was the goal of like, hey everyone remember how good of a show Survivor is. Even though there were some misses that like us dieh hard fans are are not going to like, I think to the more casual audience, it definitely brought new people in. And I hope they stick with it for 51. I hope Survivor doesn't [ __ ] it up like they did because I think the same thing happened after co people got so into Survivor and then it came back with season 41, the greatest dud of all time. I hope they do not they have momentum again. It's got momentum for the first time in a while. Do not blow it with Survivor 51. That that is my choice. But overall fun season. Uh, thank you to all the snuffheads for following along as always. Sorry for the delay on this one, but >> we'll be back next season. I don't know.
I always say maybe we'll do an offseason pod. We don't, but I would almost make an exception for Rizzo. I think Rizzo is someone we'd like to talk to.
>> Yeah, I think so, too.
>> I'd love to talk to Rizzo.
>> But, um, yeah, we'll keep you guys updated. Make sure you follow us all on Twitter. Follow Snuff and Torches, Twitter, Instagram. We'll have all the updates there. Um, >> wait, >> final words?
>> Uh, maybe a jib cut of the season.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's end with the jib cut of the season. My winner pick is uh Aubrey. My 0.0 is Joe. But my jib cut is going to be Let me think about it.
Total season jip cut.
>> I know. I know.
>> I think there's one.
I don't want to say there's only one answer, but there there's two.
>> I think there's three in my head.
>> I got a few.
You got >> you got one.
>> I don't have one off hand. Like I don't have one locked in.
>> My jib cut of the season. My honorable mention is Tiffany, but my jib cut of the season is Oscar. I I think Oscar story uh was really well done. Him going from Azie to to Oscar back to Azie. Um Oh, finale moment. Jeff Probes. Azie, get up here. What's it like being the biggest piece of [ __ ] in the world?
Here's a t-shirt with your lowest moment. Crazy. Crazy from Jeff Probes to do that to Aussie.
>> Funny.
>> Uh he took it in stride. I I I really enjoyed seeing Oscar play again. Um you know, you could say same with Colby. Uh it was just really good to see Azie though. Like I I really like the way Aussie >> holy [ __ ] >> just did his season this season.
>> John Rich.
Um, I think it might have been on Joe Rogan.
Anyway, um, >> what's on Joe Rogan?
>> I think my blog was just put up on Joe Ro.
>> Really?
>> You just sent it to me. Unless you photoshop my ass. Yeah, >> that's very >> my uh I mean my star to me jib cut of the year. I'll be the one to say, I guess. I just I [ __ ] love Si. They gave her the $100,000.
It's It's kind of hilarious how she's made a career out of going on Survivor and not winning and then walking away with just enough money to essentially survive. But, you know, I love Sere. I I I I would at this point I just want to see her do other reality TV shows almost more than Survivor because I don't know what more we could see with her and Survivor. But who knows what the next hot reality show will be. Maybe she'll go back on Traitors. Maybe whatever. But >> no, she she's >> I see her like being dubbed at this point to like be a host of a reality show.
>> Being like we want Sice >> to host it. Uh Clemer.
>> Yeah. My cut is whoever just said that.
>> My Jib cut is uh kind of the sendoffs. I like being able to have these like nice goodbyes to some of these players that we've watched, especially kind of the older era players. Uh, it was nice that they that some of them got like nice moments to say goodbye. I I really appreciate that and I liked how it did kind of tip its hat to the history. Had neat flashbacks to old episodes. I I like the history element of this of this season the most.
>> I will give my dip cut. So Siri and Azie were in my mind. Rizzo is in my mind, but I'm gonna give it to Deans. I think if we're looking at like sort of an MVP of the season, >> so many big moments. The fake idol at Tribal Council. We forgot to even mention that. Pulling that out.
Obviously the Mr. for beastcoin flip being so he played how you want to play in a returning player season. Like he made a mark. He he cemented his legacy I think as well as any player really did this season where it's not just oh that's a guy who had one good run. It's a guy if he's going to be able to consistently do that we'll see him again. Um and yeah I like him too. Like I think I think after his first season I was like is it like is there part of him that's like inauthentic because of the news anchory stuff? But I think he came off really authentic this season, more than he did in the last one. And yeah, he played played great. Um I think he deserves a mention in this JIP cut. Um >> Sure.
>> Yeah.
>> I think he he should that should be the JIP cut of the year is Debs.
>> Yeah. Someone had to give it >> like I I think he genuinely like kind of made the show like he was the best parts of the show, right?
>> Sere Deans, Rizzo, Azie to me were good four. And then obviously Aubrey and Jonathan you got to give credit to for coming out first and second and then Coach Colby all the legends too. Um all right that's it. Uh go tune in to Clemer on Pick Central 12 PM about to go.
>> Thank you guys for following um as always all season long. Great great year for the Snuff Heads honestly our most watched episodes ever for sure.
Hopefully we can keep it going into next year and um shout out to Survivor the greatest show ever made. All right see you guys.
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