Rinella masterfully exposes the growing disconnect between underfunded bureaucracy and the complex realities of modern conservation. This episode is a sharp reminder that without functional policy and adequate resources, ecological recovery remains at the mercy of administrative failure.
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Grizz Attack, Mountain Lions Rebound, and a $44K Walleye | The News Show Ep. 875Added:
Welcome to the news show. On this week, we talk to a former smoke jumper who wants your vote. Spencer catches, I mean, reports on a $44,000 Iowa walleye. Some weird old people are being weird about swans and other water fowl in North Carolina. We've got a few grizzly tags here in Montana going down, including a fatality. Spear fishermen are coming for your walley in Michigan.
and I'm joining them and Dr. Randall reports on public lands transfers in Alaska plus a whole lot more. Welcome.
But first, as always, our news starts.
Uh, hey, please subscribe to the Meteater Podcast YouTube channel. It helps us a lot and you'll be the first to know when new shows drop.
>> Well, you you just read that.
>> That's at the Meteater.
Bill, what's the ad?
>> No, it's it's >> it's just the Meteater podcast network.
Oh, that's right.
>> Yeah, it's just really helpful um just for our network if you all subscribe.
>> Yeah, do a solid. Do a solid for your fellow.
>> Uh Meater Roast, we got a new episode dropping today. Um me and Yanni have a showdown in me eater roast and me and Yanni's wives judge it. Mhm.
>> You know, someone pointed out to me, they said they'd never tell anybody this, but they said, someone that watched the cut said, "Your wife hacks on your cooking." Cuz she does.
>> Mhm.
>> But he says, "She gets visibly defensive when someone else hacks on your cooking."
>> Interesting.
>> Which I haven't watched to take note yet. you know, after you guys filmed that, um, man, Yiannis just >> Yiannis did not have a lot of good things to say about you. He said you were just like scattered all over the place trying to do too much at once.
>> He said that >> Oh, yeah.
>> This is all getting cut out, by the way.
We can't we can't spoil the episode.
>> Who's do uh So, our Save Tuckertown campaign, who's got the the Oh, the donation deadline is May 14th.
>> Yeah. So, just just pay attention to that. And we've just got a couple more days.
>> So, again, help me.
>> They're at $163,000 raised out of the $200,000 goal, which will be matched by $100,000 for Meteor and 100,000 for Monx.
>> And what's the closest What's the closest municipality here?
>> How do we say in your neck of the woods?
>> It's uh southeast of Salisbury, North Carolina.
>> Okay.
uh northeast of Charlotte.
>> Okay. So, two things out of North Carolina today. Just as a recap, halfway between Winston Salem and Charlotte, >> Alcoa, who's heavy aluminum, he having the Luna business, Alcoa owned a bunch of land near the Tucker Town Reservoir.
They'd always manage it as public land.
Alcoa wants to divest of that asset.
Okay? So, one option when divesting from an asset is they would just sell it off and then people are going to buy it and it'll become like houses or you contribute to the effort to like buy it and make it permanently public land.
So, we're at Medator working with OnX and we're doing a matching thing. Um, your donations come in, we match them dollar for dollar up to the point that we hit 200 grand. No, is that right? 200 grand of matches. Yes. Something like that. Yes, we have 200,000 in matching funds.
>> So, you guys can go to the mediator.com and search land access and uh our land access 2026 page will pop up and uh there's a link to make a donation there.
>> I killed a big old whitetail buck on some former Elcoa land um >> in North Carolina.
>> No, different state. It's hanging in the meat eater store.
>> What state?
>> Uh Texas.
>> Why are you being weird about it?
>> I don't know. It's just like that.
You're going to spot burn Texas. Alcoa is 10 acres there.
>> This is why I told you Texas and I decided it was okay.
>> It used to be I heard on that podcast there's some deer in Texas.
>> Yep.
>> Like go down there.
>> Mhm.
>> Randall. Yeah. Uh did you win?
>> No, I didn't. I didn't. Uh >> that's a talk about a spoiler alert.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I went down uh by the time you're listening to this, it would be the weekend before last to uh the very southeastern corner of Wyoming uh just across from the Kansas or I'm sorry, the Nebraska border.
>> Do you hear any turkeys gobble?
>> Nope.
>> Not a single gobble the whole time.
>> Nope.
>> Nope. Um yes, shot the KRG Extreme ELR match hosted by High Plains Precision. I was.
>> So that's extreme >> extreme long range.
>> Extreme extreme long range.
>> Yes. Yes. And this is something that there's a lot of very dedicated practitioners of the of the discipline and I went down there with zero preparation or training. Uh I finished 118 out of 137 and I was gunning.
>> Oh, you beat some guys.
>> Yeah. And actually >> Yeah. But you were like you were competing against like military snipers.
>> Yeah. And just mostly enthusiasts. But I had um there were only three people who hadn't shot this exact match before and I was one of them. So I like to think of it as >> That's great. That's like That's like >> It's not about who beat you.
>> Yeah.
>> It's about who you beat. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I was gunning for number 136 and I surpassed my hopes and expectations.
>> How many people did you beat?
>> 19.
>> I feel like you could have said you could have said 21.
>> I went down there and bested Oh, I bested 19 competitors.
>> Hold on. I'm doing all my math wrong.
Yeah, >> but like in some other world that's like your place really high.
>> Yeah. I'd say nothing more. Yeah. I bested 19 competitors.
>> So, there's a couple ways of looking at it.
>> Mhm.
>> Either I exceeded my expectations or I came in near the very tail end of the finishers. Uh I hit like between 23 and 24% of my points and the winner only got 70% of the points available. So, >> was the longest shot you made?
In practice or during the match?
>> During the match, practice >> during the match. My longest shot was 1353.
>> Holy.
>> That was my my first >> my longest.
>> Did you go over a mile in practice?
>> My longest first round impact. Yeah. I went twice.
>> Well, I had three hits over a mile in practice. The longest one was 2323.
>> You hit at that.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, I was saying to him >> that it's long when there's no year that was that year.
>> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah.
>> Cuz he's talking about other distances that had years.
>> Yeah.
>> Like 1985.
>> 1833.
>> Yeah. But then you get into thing that a year that hasn't happened. That's a long ways a shot.
>> It is.
>> Then you're like into like >> 2027.
>> But another way of thinking about that is a 95 yard shot is so much further removed from where we are today that it it maybe that's more alien than like 209.
Um, but yeah, it was good. I had a great time. Did you go by yourself? I did.
>> Did your wife go?
>> No. She found out how far away it was and she didn't go.
>> Did she bagged out?
>> Yeah. So did Phil, actually. Um, I had a couple people that wanted to go and then they found out I was driving nine hours and they didn't go. But >> why' Phil back out?
>> Uh, it's just basically the drive time.
>> Is that true, Phil?
>> Yeah, I thought it'd be a fun time.
There was karaoke to be had, so you know.
>> Yep. Lost my voice.
>> That was a big carrot for me. And I just that the drive was too much.
>> Has the karaoke rolled into the shooting contest?
>> Uh it's sort of a natural outgrowth of the We We also did trivia. I hosted trivia on Friday night with with the match director.
>> What?
>> Yeah.
Yeah. This is the whole thing. I got a when I was deer hunting last year, I got a message on Instagram from Jose Gardner, friend of the program. Uh, and he said, "Look, I host this match in Wyoming in May, and I think you'd have a good time. Plus, I've always wanted to have ballistics related trivia."
>> And I said, "I'm in."
>> Who wrote the trivia? Him.
>> No, I did. I did most of it.
>> Did you Did you >> He said it'd be too hard for us because it's all about long range shooting.
>> We're too dumb.
>> But a a man who wrote a book on ballistics told me it was good >> afterwards.
>> The trivia. Yeah.
>> Did you have anything in there about the Corialis effect?
>> I did.
>> Oh, I probably have passed.
>> Uh, >> have you seen the movie Shooter with Mark Wahlberg?
>> No, I have not.
>> It's a key plot point.
>> Quick thing. I' I've talked about this book two times on the show, but I didn't know what it was. I knew that there was some kind of uh firewood book, and I knew that it had something to do with the Northern Europeans. I'm holding it in my hand. Jim Zumble gave it to me.
This is a fetishist text. If you have a firewood fetish, this book is for you.
But finally, the mystery is solved.
Norwegian wood chopping, stacking, and drying.
>> Kind of redundant.
>> Yeah, hummet.
>> I think it's Norwegian wood, right? That then that's what it is.
>> Oh, that makes more sense.
>> The t Okay, >> that's true. I was It could be titled Norwegian wood chopping, stacking, and drying wood the Scandinavian way or you could read it Norwegian wood chopping, stacking, and drying wood the Scandinavian way. Either way, I would have never had a redundancy of words >> between my title and subtitle. Maybe it's um been a translation. Yeah, there's no better word.
>> But I'm telling you what, man. If you get your jollies off looking at >> expertly stacked wood, >> Phil, where how do we >> Where can I put this?
>> Just No. Point it point at the camera in front of you.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> can you zoom in on that?
>> Not an If I had that, I'd say no one burned any of that [ __ ] >> Should Can they see it good? Can I see what they see or can't you do that?
>> Oh, yeah. I can I can show you that.
>> I want to see if there's Oh, they can see it.
>> Yeah, >> that's nothing. Look at this.
>> I like how he's used all those pallets.
>> This dude built a house out of firewood.
Wait a minute. Where's this guy?
>> Is that house meant for burning or living? Yeah, >> that's what we were talking about. You could tell You could tell a guy like, "Hey, man, just step into that little house there and make yourself comfortable."
>> Um, can I show this one, Phil?
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> There's nothing yet.
>> Damn, >> that's nice.
>> Nothing. Cuz wait till I find the house.
Maybe that needs to be the new calendar.
>> Yeah, there's some dudes in here that could stack some wood, man. But there's a guy that made a uh Damn it.
>> And also, just a quick note, the title's I think a play on on the Beatles song, Norwegian Wood. So, I don't think it's translation thing.
>> Great song.
>> Yeah, >> kind of a bummer.
>> The Buddy Rich Big Band has a just face melting cover of it. If you like jazz, just throw that out there.
Did I ever tell you that jazz? Oh, >> Norwegian would parathetically the bird has flown.
>> Can you zoom in on this one, Phil? Silo.
Wow.
>> That's a stack of firewood.
>> Damn, those people are talented.
>> Long winters.
>> Well, Jim Zumbo, I never found the house. There's a house made out of firewood in there. Jim Zumbo said he has firewood OCD when he was on the show. He has like a problem with firewood and so I think he does this kind of deal.
>> Maybe we should do sheds at his place.
>> Oh, >> meteor sheds.
>> Yeah. Why has no one done that?
>> Well, great idea.
>> Yeah, I'll just call them. Probably love to do it.
>> Okay. Uh Rand >> Megan, >> are you doing this?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> For those of you that are gearing up for the spring, summer, or even getting a jump start on the fall, don't miss out on our upcoming spring sale starting this Thursday. May 14th, we'll have discounts on First Light Phelps FHF and up to 50% off logo wear on the meat eater store. We'll have >> There's a punctuation missing there.
Anyway, there's incredible discount this Norwegian book title >> daily deals and new products for you to check out. Um the daily deals, I understand it's like a a different thing every day and when we're when they're gone, they're gone. So, just keep checking in. Starts May 14th. It's the spring sale.
>> When did you become the guy who reads the copy in the spring?
>> I don't know. I like it though.
>> I like it. Yeah.
>> Okay. Listener wrote in. This is more news from North Carolina.
>> Did you Did you got more you want to add?
>> No, I just like to do more ad reads.
Okay. If >> I think you should do it in the uh >> Maybe he can do them till he gets good at them.
>> Arby's I'm all in.
>> I think you should do it in the Ken Burns voice. Yeah, we could do all kinds of different voices.
>> A guy from North Carolina wrote in Lake.
>> Yeah, this is tough.
>> Juna, >> what do you think it is?
>> We agreed.
>> Junuska.
>> Yeah.
>> Western North Carolina. There's a lake owned by the World Methodist Organization.
Now, follow along here. Okay, >> this is called This is about a thing called the Swan Patrol.
The lake is approximately 200 acres and is the only major body of water within almost three counties. Okay. It's deep in the Appalachin Range. You're not allowed to hunt on it, but guys like to fish it.
For the last several years, this writer says, this listener says, a local group that has been dubbed the Swan Patrol has taken up the responsibility of feeding, hurting, trapping, and relocating local waterfall.
The World Methodist Organization has granted the Swan Patrol permission to rope off exceptionally large sections of the lakes's bank to allow a safe nesting area for the birds.
The patrol not only does this to the small population of mute swans that live at the lake but also to all but also to all types of water fowl including ducks, geese, and coots.
They regular go out in a group of up to five to six people and feed the birds massive amounts of corn.
He's saying they're having such an impact that the birds don't migrate out of there. They just stay there to eat the corn.
He says, "I know the lake has a right as property owners to restrict bank access, but everyone's question around here is if they're allowed to tamper with the wildlife to this extent." No, you're not. One instance that caused much discussion locally was when a swan patrol captured a swan that accidentally went over the dam. They craled it into a dog crate and moved it back to the upper part of the lake. Did it happen?
>> Then it happened again. He says he's seen them load wild malards into cages in their cars to take them to other parts of the lake.
Is this legal? No.
>> First of all, how does a swan accidentally go over a dam? Like maybe >> that's by their perception of trying to like >> Yes. Their perception >> step out.
>> He says, "I will mention like he tells you he's going to mention it." And then he mentions it. The writer says, "I will mention this group does consist of members with ages ringing ranging from the 60s to their 80s."
>> That's agism.
>> It is kind of >> I don't like it. I experience it here.
>> Yeah. Cuz like I could be like with those dudes and I might just seem like slightly younger.
>> Yeah.
>> But you know >> Yeah. That's not a thing you like just for the That's not a thing you're allowed to do.
>> He's got a point though. People that age like to tinker with [ __ ] you mess with stuff.
>> They like to tinker.
Okay, we got a special We got a special guest in the studio tonight. Joined by Sam Forest.
>> Hey, Steve. Thanks for having me, guys.
>> Yeah, man. So, what you're doing and the reason you're here, well, you're here for a couple reasons. One, you're here because you're running in the primary.
>> That's right. the the So, for background, if you listen to the show some time ago, we had on um a representative, Ryan Zinci. He's leaving.
>> Mhm.
>> And so, there's going to be like things are getting spicy.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> There's a vacant seat. You're running in the primary seeking the the the pime the Democrat primary.
>> I am >> for the western Montana thing.
>> That's it. Montana's first. What caught me what what caught my interest is your background that um and you might get sick of people saying this, but it just kind of it's like said every time I see your name, it's thrown in there how you were a smoke jumper.
>> Smoke jumper. Yeah. Union leader. I thought you were going to bring up the sauna, but >> what about the sauna?
>> Oh, we got a hell of a sauna in the backyard. You'll come over for the next God willing. Yeah. You think the Scandinavians are particular about wood shopping? Talk about a sauna.
>> You're a wood man, too.
>> Yeah. So, I keep saying this that you're running and that you have no political experience.
>> Um, this is your first time. This is your this would be your >> first time running for anything more than vice president of my union's local.
>> Okay. So, I don't mean no political experience, but on the national stage from us.
>> Yeah. And then spent all that spent four years as a smoke jumper.
>> That's right.
>> Tell people what a smoke jumper is.
>> Well, we parachute out of parachute into wildfires to stop them before they grow.
Um, idea is speed range payload. That's how you sell the program. We can get there quick. fixed wing airplanes, put them out while they're small, so you don't end up spending, you know, tens of millions of dollars fighting a wildfire.
Um, and yeah, I spend eight years doing wild and fire and the last four is a smoke jumper.
>> I never thought of that as a cost-saving measure.
>> Well, yeah, that's the idea.
>> Before it's on the national news and stuff.
>> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, ideally, you get four guys on the ground, you can put something out at a quarter acre. It's a lot cheaper than you wait till you got to bring a bunch of heavy equipment, hand crews, all the rest.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, how how did you wind up with the Forest Service?
>> Well, I graduated M over in Missoula.
Don't hold it against me. And I I work two or three jobs at a time.
>> I went to school there.
>> Oh, you did?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Really? Well, you got your MFA. Yeah, >> that's right.
>> Well, um >> I mean, >> and also >> he also got an honorary degree.
>> Yeah. Well, we both bleed Maroon. Um yeah, I I loved it there. Did not love having to work two or three jobs at a time the whole time. And I still had debt on the back end, so I figured I'd do Wild and Fire for a couple years, pay my debts. And >> when I heard you get paid to jump out of airplanes into public lands, I figured I had to stick around long enough to do that.
>> Is there an elimination process with that? Like how do you go about getting in there?
>> There is. So it usually takes folks till their fifth or sixth year and fire to get picked up by a jump program.
>> Rookie training is a six week process.
>> Like you apply for the program?
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. So I applied for three years running before I got picked up my fifth year.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Fighting fire the whole time.
>> Yep. I started over in Lincoln. That's how I knew, you know, how far north that little half goes. and uh did three years in the Swan Valley in Condan on a hand crew.
>> Okay.
>> And then I got picked up for as a rookie candidate and about >> 50 or 60% of people make it through.
There's about a 40 or 50% attrition rate, wash out rate.
>> Uh it so you get accepted to a program >> and then there's a wash out rate within the program. Yeah.
>> Like once you're accepted.
>> Yeah.
>> And what what what mechanism do they use to to to find people's limits? Well, so we the kind of standard uh six week program is a week of hell week where they are just torturing the hell out of you. Um depending on the base, you might have a 24-hour line dig. Everybody's got to go through a 110lb pack test, 85 lb pack test over rough terrain. You're going over 5 6,000 ft of elevation.
>> Um and really they just kick the [ __ ] out of you for about a week. You got to go through units week. It's a whole lot of the technical side of parachuting, making sure you can hook up a parachute harness without any errors, suiting up in under two minutes, repelling out of what would be a tree if you were to tree up, and then four weeks of jump phase.
And so there's a lot of lot of spots where you can mess up and there's not a lot of room for error. Like the idea is they don't want anyone who's going to end up in the program who might will be a risk to themselves or anybody else cuz there's four of you in the woods. You don't you don't want to have to be calling Lifellight or anything like that.
>> How many times did you jump in on fires?
I got 34 fire jumps total and 130 some alto together.
>> Really? How many states? I >> think eight states I got to jump in. I was I was lucky. Yeah. All over the west.
>> So you got to jump you were jumping into places you never been obviously.
>> Oh, it's some of the most beautiful corners of the country. Even Canada, you know, back when they had their big fire season a couple years ago. And >> you got you jumped into Canada.
>> Yep. Yeah. When they had that, you know, terrible fire season was that 23.
>> Yeah.
>> I want to say. Um yeah, I was lucky enough to be on the first wave of American jumpers to go up in 13 years.
And um yeah, four fires all over and it was I mean that I think they you know 10xed what they their previous record had been for acres burned. It was just unprecedented.
>> You jump in on a plane then get picked up in a helicopter or walk out to a road or >> Yeah. I mean the packout is the famous way to get out of there. So you're jumping in, you see a smoke jumper, looks like you got a big diaper you're wearing. That's your packout bag. So got about 110 lbs. If you're not ordering a chainsaw, power head's going to be another 25. And usually shlept that stuff out of there and find a ride. So they'll often tell you to walk out like to walk out.
>> Yeah. I mean that's the standard procedure. If you can get a helicopter and get a rockstar exit, absolutely. But I mean the idea is self-sufficiency. I mean that's you talk about cost savings.
I mean something a lot of folks don't know about jumpers is we manufacture almost all of our own materials. So everything short of the canopy is made manufactured in house. Our Kevlar jumpsuits, the bags that we're carrying, those packout bags. Um yeah, there's a lot of sewing that goes on in the offseason. What was the farthest you ever had to walk to get out of there?
>> I think my longest packout was six miles. Okay. So, I got >> not like not like terri I I thought if you'd have told me 30, I wouldn't have been surprised, but >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Canada. I don't know what I don't know what kind of stuff you were doing.
>> 30. I'm calling a helicopter. 110 pounds. It's a lot. Yeah.
>> Did you ever have to sleep out there while fighting a fire?
>> Oh, yeah. So, if you're jumping, you should be ready to be out there for two weeks.
>> What?
>> Yeah. And that's that's the expectation.
Two weeks, you can extend to three. Um, if you're making it to two weeks, you probably didn't catch that thing and you're calling in a bunch of other resources to fight this fire.
>> Really?
>> What's the longest you did spend out there?
>> Uh, you know, I had 31 days straight.
Um, which was kind of skimp to a place you parachuted into?
>> Yeah, we parachuted into the three sisters wilderness a couple couple years back. Um, spent just over two weeks out there and then got rolled into a complex. I ended up managing a little task force of heavy equipment. Yeah.
>> So, you like whatever if you got a girlfriend or something, you're like, "Hey, I'll be back like later or not."
>> Well, the divorce rate is high. Yeah.
Yeah, for wild and fire.
>> I'll be back later or maybe in a few weeks.
>> Yeah, it it's tough staying in touch with your family. And that's the hard thing about wild and fire, whether you're a jumper on a hot shot crew or an engine. I mean, there's just not a lot of consistency and you got to give up your summers, you know, if nothing else.
And the only way you make money, especially if you're making 15 16 bucks an hour, which was I mean, my starting wage was 15 bucks an hour as a smoke jumper.
>> Is that right?
>> You only make money if you're making overtime. So, if you're not on a fire, you're going broke.
>> 15 bucks an hour.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that >> see ads outside of the McDonald's >> better than it's tough.
>> Yeah. Fulltime at DQ and Livingston's 20 times 18.
>> That's what got me into this. A lot of it is I mean our public lands employees are not paid crazy wages by any means. I mean when I started I was making 1270 an hour >> on the engine and and that was the going rate. I didn't hit 15 until I was a rookie smoke jumper. And when I was vice president of my union last year, well that's when all the doge cuts and all the rest started. And um they ended up firing 360 people in one day, two Valentine's Days ago. 85% of them are making less than 20 bucks an hour.
>> That's the new Valentine's Day massacre.
>> It is. Absolutely. And there's a lot of inefficiencies in the federal government. Believe me, I've seen them.
It's not people making 13 bucks an hour swinging a tool to keep a trail clear or a road clear.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And it's it's all the most efficient workers we got. They had GS2s that they were firing in Montana. I mean, that's $11 and some change keeping a trail clear, you know. Yeah. It's it's absurdity. And these are the people who actually do the damn work. And that's who was losing their jobs, having their lives turned upside down. And when I called our congressperson Zinci's office four or five times, I got crickets. So I said, if he's going to take my co-workers and members jobs, I'm going to come take his.
>> So when uh like when you left, what was the path with leaving that and getting involved in sort of I don't you don't call it the the like the policy end of things.
>> Yeah.
>> Like you you left being a smoke jumper and then came in and did were a union representative for who? So our union is the national federation of federal employees.
>> Okay. We >> So not just fire crews.
>> No, it's it's all it's the forest service branch of the union, the forest service council. Our locals, the Lolo National Forest, the Bitterroot and the Kuster Gaton out here, which we just organized last year.
>> Okay.
>> And some of the regional offices that are getting shut down right now as they consolidate down to Salt Lake City and Denver and all the rest.
>> Um that's about 800 public servants, you know, federal employees and yeah, a whole lot of those folks lost their jobs and we lost about a quarter of the agency in the state last year. And you were in this you were in your role when that was going on.
>> I was I mean I stepped into it beginning of January. So I stepped in just in time for well all these cuts to start coming down.
>> What was that like?
>> It was chaos and it was heartbreaking. I mean truly I I was we were getting stories and calls from members like Galera down in the bidder route. She was 15 years into her civil service. She was an archaeologist down in Hamilton. She got fired one day with no notice, no cause because she just happened to have taken a lateral transfer in the last year so she could do more remote work while she went through chemotherapy.
>> Um, Carol was not getting rich. I, you know, fell down in Enis on the Kuster Galton who got a text while he's in line at the airport for his mother's funeral telling that he's lost his job and he was only a GS5. So, he's losing a job he was only making 16 bucks an hour at in the first place.
>> And it's I mean, it is so aggravating because these folks were not making a whole lot to begin with. And again, because this is not where the the damn inefficiency is, right? These were the people doing >> keeping all of these things together and there are a lot of ways to sell off our public lands. Selling off the acorage is just one of them.
>> Right. The plan right now for the forest service is to be is to draw it down to oneird of the staffing levels we were at a year and a half ago. You got one third of the people managing all the same lands. That's a hell of an excuse to turn around and say like why ain't that trail clear? It's not working. We got to >> to then point to the ways it's not working out.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I hear that. I hear that all the time. I don't know that.
I'd be curious what you guys think about this. I don't know. I hear that, but I don't know that that will be the playbook.
>> Yeah, >> I don't know. I hear it like that the a logic would go. Mhm.
>> We don't need to spend a ton of time on this, but >> that people will express the logic would be deprive the land management agencies of funding.
>> Mhm.
>> Have then watch how chaos ensues.
>> Mhm.
>> Fires, mismanagement, and then someone can say, um, look how bad they're doing.
What a what a what a disaster. We need to do something about this and put this in the hands of someone that can better care for it.
>> Sure. Like I hear it. I'm not saying it won't happen. I just don't know if that'll be the >> sure the rhetoric.
>> You don't think someone like Mike Lee might make that argument?
>> Yes, because he makes every argument.
Last time it was it was that it was illegal immigration. It was wanting to like do things a 100 miles into Montana because of illegal immigration across the Canadian border. So, sure, there's some grasping at straws.
>> Yeah. Well, I'll tell.
>> Okay. Sure. Yes. And I mean, Mike Lee's going to go for he wants the acorage, right? He wants the land itself. But what I see on the ground is I mean, this is it's not new. They're just stepping up the pace of this. And I mean, I was on a fire this summer. We jumped a fire outside of Steamboat Springs.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And 12 of us jump in. This thing goes to 500 acres. And so we we're calling a bunch of resources in 3 days in, I'm managing a task force of hand crews. And we put in an order for the most some of the most basic firefighting implements, pumps and hoses. and they tell me, "Well, we're not getting those till the end of shift tomorrow because they just shut down the gear cache here in Steamboat. So, we got to overnight air mail the pumps and hoses from Denver.
It'll get here tomorrow. We got to have someone drive it up to the line. We'll get it tomorrow night." So, not only is the firefighting itself taking longer, but we're paying so much more to overnight air mail thousands of pounds of equipment that used to be stored right there. I mean, that's the point of a gear cache. Yeah.
>> And those I mean, those examples are legion. you know, when I'm putting in an order for a hand crew, it's early July and you want a hot shot crew, that is the most capable 20 people you're gonna find for firefighting. And they tell me, well, we don't we don't have any hot shot crews available. So, instead of one hot shot crew, we're going to order three contract crews >> because they have less capabilities than a hot shot crew. So, on paper, it looks real good to say, well, one for one, one crew, one crew. But in reality, if you're on the ground, you bet you're ordering more more crews and we all end up paying so much more. And that's that's that's what I mean when I say another way of selling these things off, right? That's one of the things I came to see about the like o over the months or over the weeks about the Doge cuts was you came to see ways it brought to mind you came to see that it created a lot of inefficiencies like sort of accidentally >> made all these inefficiencies and it reminds me of this passage in in Elder Leupold's San County almanac where he talks about he's talking about ecology but he's saying people are taking like watch parts and they don't understand what the parts do and they're flicking them out.
>> Yeah.
>> And then someone later's like, >> you know, being like, "Dude, that little thing you threw out >> that's like turn that that makes the whole thing click.
>> That cog was important."
>> And so we've had other interview we had a guy from um White River National Forest on who who took the took the bio, left, but he was a supervisor of White River National Forest and man, he came in and told us just just like insane stories about things that were supposedly going to help or ways in which he was forced to make cuts that turned around and cost money, >> cost time, created problems from just having this like what turned out to be like a very ham-handed approach.
>> Yeah. I mean, you want to know the biggest way that we end up spending more money is if you don't have ground resources to fight a fire. If I jump in there and we're losing this thing cuz the wind's blowing, well, my best option is to call in air resources. Mhm.
>> So you end up calling I mean if I'm on the ground I can't get a hot shot crew.
That's when you got to call in a large air tanker to drop fire retardant at 7,000 bucks a pop and I've stood on fires and watched more money than I will make in my lifetime fall out the bottom of a large air tanker to put retardant along the side of a wildfire. And you know where that money goes? Well, it goes to the the contracting service Aerospace that just so happens to be owned by the third richest man of the United States Senate, Tim Shehy.
>> Mhm.
>> And you you don't have to look too far to see where the incentive structure is to maybe we're spending more money. it's going to a different place. I'd rather have that money staying here for someone making 15 bucks an hour on the district or on the fire crew than paying to a contractor where it's just getting sucked out of all of our pockets as taxpayers, you know? What do you think drives people like the time you spent there?
What do you think drives people to to take a a job where they're um I don't want to say compensated poorly, but take a job where the compensation isn't the point?
>> Do you know what I mean?
>> Yeah. I mean, there's >> like what drew you to it? I love I love I love being on public lands. I like stomping around in the woods. If you can get paid to do that, especially in remote places, that's the dream job, >> right? I'm I'm sure all of us can relate to that. Beyond that, it's, you know, they call it being a public servant.
It's similar to what why a library librarian would work in a position where they're not getting rich or my dad's a public school teacher, right? There's school teachers in the state making a starting wage of $ 39,000 $40,000 an hour right now.
>> Um, you know, it's there is a sense of service to it, right? Right. And there's a there's something rewarding about being able to look back and say, I've been swinging a tool for the last 9 days and running a saw and I just tied in that fire line and that fire is not going to burn over that thing, >> right? And there are fewer and fewer jobs every year where you can really look at the the labor and the the fruit of your what your hands have done and see what you've accomplished. Yeah.
>> You know, that's a that's a rare pleasure that you can't find very often in this world.
>> I haven't watched everything you've done and and you know, been to your talks and stuff. I follow enough to know that you're like your kind of pitch to voters in the state is really is really geared toward working like you spend a lot of time talking about work the working class working class.
>> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I I mean when I >> you feel like that's like that's your background that's your people.
>> Yeah. I think that's what we're missing, right? I mean the average Congress person is worth 12 to 15 times the average American right now.
>> Um and you wonder why there's not a sense of urgency to address all these basic issues that so many of us are living with on the ground. And I mean, I got to the end of the last fire season and yeah, I have just watched the agency I work for be gutted in the name of efficiency and I see inefficiencies.
Federal hiring is pretty damn inefficient. It takes 9 months to get somebody hired on a $15 an hour job on a trails crew or a fire crew. That's inefficiency, right? Uh workman's comp or HR, you got people spending dozens of manh hours just to chase down a workman's comp claim for somebody who broke their back parachuting into a fire. You know, like that is inefficient. The guy making 13 bucks an hour swinging a tool is not inefficient.
And it whether it's fire or any other job, you can tell the difference when somebody making the calls has never been on the ground doing the work. And that's what it feels like in this country right now.
>> You know, people are struggling to afford a roof over their head or healthcare, all the rest. And uh the people who are making the decisions have not experienced that. You know, I mean, I when I was a kid, my belly was full because of food stamps for a while. My dad was getting his feet underneath them. Thank God. you know, there's not a lot of people in Congress who've ever lived through that or who've been working three jobs at a time and still come up short on rent um like a lot of people in this state in this country are. And I think that that lived experience influences the sort of policym you're doing and where you're going to be looking to cut if you are going to be making those cuts. Are you um let's say you get the nomination, are you sweating it for when the whole part of the campaign comes when it's just all like negative, negative, negative and people are attacking you left and right?
Does that make you nervous? You know, I I'll say we're in a primary right now.
The election's June second, so everybody make sure you register. But I mean, every time I, you know, get a new a big endorsement or we uh, you know, have more support kind of bubble up or a social media video pop up, the negativity starts already. And we're really I'm making sure to make this a positive campaign and talk about I'm so tired of all of politics where it's just anger, anger, anger, and people screaming into a cell phone screen. Like that doesn't get us anywhere. That gets us to a Congress that's the least productive in American history right now in terms of bills passed. Um, and I the policy experience I do got is I did some organizing and advocacy between fire seasons. I worked for the state library association, a group of homeless shelters. Um, just trying to do good where I could between seasons and they still get things done at the Montana legislature. You got to pass a budget.
It has to be balanced.
>> They got to pay for everything. And even, you know, we had the first Republican supermajority in state history in 2023 and we managed to get some aid for homeless shelters passed cuz we're in Bosezeman, right? You got people living out in the back of their cars and trailers who've been living here their whole life. That's not a partisan issue.
>> Um, and you don't get those things done by standing in a room and screaming at everybody about everything you disagree with. You got to you have to be able to talk past that and that just feels like a lost art in modern politics. I read somewhere that you were saying when this is all done, you know, that you're going to have to go back out and look for a job.
Oh, yeah. I'm broke. I'm broke. But that's the point, right? We I think we need some broke people in politics.
>> Yeah. No, no, man. Like Yeah. You'd be like you'd be like looking in the help wanted ads.
>> Yeah. And and I want to be clear, nothing wrong with success. You don't have to villainize prosperity for any of this, but it ain't what we're missing when, again, like the average Congress person is worth 15 times as much as as the average person. We we have a lived experience gap in the halls of power in our decision makers. And I actually think that if we you know one of the things I talk about what I learned in my advocacy time is there are dark smoke filled rooms in politics. It's called a conference committee. Anytime the two chambers, the House and the Senate pass a different bill. Well, they have to reconcile and that ends up with eight or 10 people in one room making all of the decisions for what is going to become law. And if every single person in that room is worth, you know, multiple millions of dollars, well, you bet they're going to be a whole lot more willing to give away the money we're spending on food stamps or SNAP benefits. They're going to be able to they're going to be willing to give away the people who are making 14 bucks an hour because they don't know that those are the people that make this thing work.
>> Mhm.
>> And there are so many ways that we could find efficiencies in our government. Um, we have not found them at all. We're going to have a lot of rebuilding to do public lands and everywhere else. And I would just offer that if we want a government that actually works for working people who are getting the short end of the stick on a lot of this stuff, we should send working people to Congress so we can we can fight for ourselves. And the way we win this is we don't pick our own multi-millionaire to go fight all the rest of them.
>> You know, we that's not our champion.
And it has not been working for for too long, whatever party's in power.
>> I told you when we met over the phone, >> I said you and me probably disagree on 50% of things. I don't know some amount.
But I think that I think where we're pretty much aligned is I I imagine you're not going to want to entertain ideas about large scale public land transfers.
>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it scares the hell out of me this notion under the Forest Service reorg of shutting down nine regional offices and turning it into 15 state offices.
>> Like I don't know if they'll ever be successful in in a land transfer effort, but I hope the hell they won't be. And that does not seem like a move towards efficiency. It seems like a move towards again taking decision-m further away from where the actual work on the ground's going on.
>> Yeah. I don't want to say this is the motivation, but it looks like sort of castrating, >> but I haven't heard no one's tried to sell me on it yet.
>> Yeah.
>> I've only had people tell me all the ways it's wrong.
>> Yeah. I haven't heard I haven't heard the benefits of it. No, I mean somehow we're moving decision-m for the Forest Service further away from the decision makers in DC and further away from where the work's happening. Right. Not only do we lose the historic regional office in Missoula, we also lose the DC office where if the chief needs to get a message up the chain, you would think he could go across the street and talk to somebody. We're losing all that.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, man. Thanks for coming and joining us.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So, the so the primary is the second.
>> Primary is June second. If anyone is curious, you can go to sam formont.com and see what we're all about. Got policies, endorsers, all the rest on there. And you know, you mentioned that we probably Yeah. Oh, I was say one I I watched one of your videos where you did a house tour.
>> Uhhuh.
>> He lives out of his house is like I mean it's bigger than this, but it's like this studio >> hair. Yeah.
>> And he's got his bookshelf next to his stove and he's like it's very convenient.
>> That is efficiency. That is what we need.
>> I can just I can just reach right over here and grab a book.
>> Two more steps. You're in the bathroom.
Yeah. No steps wasted. And uh yeah, and I'll I I will just add you said we probably disagree on 50% of things.
Maybe it's less than that, but um >> I was just taking the ballpark. I don't know.
>> We haven't talked we we talked about land management and we talked about you know >> Yeah.
>> Um >> what I found is you agree with we I find I agree with a lot more than I would expect until I meet somebody. And part of what we're doing in the campaign is a series of civil discourse conversations.
So I just sat down with Michelle Benley.
She's a Republican legislator in the root valley >> and we talked about the fact that we do not agree on everything and that is okay because Michelle knew what it was like to be on the verge of homelessness raising two boys. She, you know, she has uh worked as a waitress for 15 years in the valley and we agree on getting people basic healthcare. We agree on making sure that people living on the streets have access to mental health services. Basic things like that.
>> And I actually think that is as as important as the policy specifics is just getting back to a place where we can talk past our differences, >> find the things we agree on because there's all these 8020 issues where we agree on all the basics and we just spend our time yelling about the stuff we don't >> Yeah. Calling everybody evil.
>> Exactly. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Very there are very few people in this world who do not think that they're bringing the good in the way that they see it.
>> Yeah. Well, dude, thanks for coming out.
I appreciate you taking the time to come talk to us.
>> Likewise, Steve. I appreciate it. Oh, yeah.
>> Thanks.
>> Okay, got a couple quick news flashes.
>> Yep. Um, today, well, actually, now that you're listening to this, it's probably just a couple days before. It is Steve's favorite person's birthday party or birthday. Sorry, not party. Hopefully, he's throwing himself a party.
That was good.
>> It's uh Sir David Atenboroough uh turns 100red years old. What a milestone. Um so we gathered a couple of interesting facts about him. He has more honorary degrees than anyone else.
>> I want to listen like here's the dirty secret of the honorary degree. This is coming from an honorary degree.
>> You're blowing up your your whole thing, Steve, right here.
What it means is you were invited to do a commencement address. So another way to put it was he doesn't pass up a chance to do a commencement address >> would be another way of putting it.
>> Right? So he has passed up he has not passed up 31 more commencement address invitations.
>> I'm done with commencement addresses.
Mark my words.
>> I hate to do this but according to the Guinness Book of World Records, he's about 120 on a degree short.
>> I know Ken Burns is way high. I figured like Gaddafi and Saddam had a lot of honorary degrees >> or one of the most.
>> Yeah. I mean, >> who's winning?
>> Yeah. Shoot.
>> Guinness says it's the Reverend Theodore M. Heesburg who's the former president of Notre Dame.
>> Yeah, actually 32 doesn't seem like a really maybe one of the most >> more than 50. Okay, there we go.
>> The King of Thailand has a lot too.
>> Randall, thank you for correcting me at the spot >> so we don't have like a hundred emails.
>> Yeah, no corrections on this one. We already nipped it in the bud.
>> Okay. Uh he's had dozens of species named after him, including um I went through a whole a whole list of them, but this one was really cool to me. It's called Nepenthus at Burrowi or Atini, which is a giant carnivorous pitcher plant. Um so we're looking at a picture here. Imagine a like bright lime neon highlighter green and kind of purple red vat looking plant um that holds about 1.5 L. It's been observed to have trapped and digested a shrew and this was discovered in 2007 in a remote area um on a Philippine island. Um what else?
He is one of the most, if not the most, Randall, feel free to check me on this.
>> Well, who who by whose measurement?
>> There are a bunch of websites that I looked at >> that say he's one of the most traveled people in history.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think this was Nat G. It may have been Nat Geo. That sounds like a shot in the dark.
>> I didn't pull up all my sourcing.
>> The dude never passed a driver's test.
>> Well, that's a different thing.
>> No, it's not. It's everywhere. No, he never It's like he never passed a driver's test. He's just been he's been with all due respect I I don't want to hack on an old guy. Let me just come out and I'm not going to say any of the bad stuff about him except this. Okay. My only beef with the guy like I'm sure he loves his country. It's not my country so I don't care. But I'm sure he loves his country which gets you know points I guess I suppose even though it's not ours. My problem with this is how many nature documentaries he has ruined with his narration.
That's what it sounds like all the time.
He ru He is a one-man wildlife footage ruining machine.
>> That's my but I guess so many people would disagree because they keep hiring him and get that job over and over again. And I'm sorry, >> I've been to like I'm a Morgan Freeman fan.
>> He's cranking out narration now and they make him do the same annoying thing. So maybe it's like the way that they're >> Dude, if the minute they get Larry the Cable Guy to start doing those, I'm all in. If Larry the Cable Guy was like, if Atenboro, I don't know how old the brother's going to live. Let's say he lives another 10 years.
>> If in 10 years that when he's 110, if he stops ruining nature movies and they just had Larry the Cable Guy do them, same footage, same material, Larry the Cable Guy does them, they would be good.
>> That plant just ate a shrew.
Yes, it's the same footage.
>> Like 10 years ago, there was a there was a wildlife documentary series and I can never remember what it who actually narrated it.
>> Dog did.
>> There was I want to say it was like it wasn't actually Sam Elliot, but it was like this young American's heading out on the open range for the first time and it's like a little bison standing up.
But it all sound it sounded like a drive. That would drive me nuts.
>> I'm gonna move through the rest of these quickly, but one last thing.
>> Maybe it's just the genre. Um and and happy birthday, David Atenboroough. We talk about you all the time on the show.
There we go. Um but shouldn't we as like a new whole, you know, video show thing that we do is like film some nature documentaries and have, you know, different folks voice them. Why don't you That should be a new thing. You voice.
>> Here's how I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it like this. You're going to be watching the amazing footage. I'm going to come in now and be like, "That's a blue shark.
You're going to narrate it the same way you narrate it to your family at home.
>> Yeah. I'm like I'll be like, "No, no, no. Those are uh rainbow smell."
>> I'm going to say something like that cuz that's all I'm wondering. It's like when I'm watching I'm like I just want to know what it is.
>> I'm >> I don't want to hear you do like verbal gymnastics of throwing your voice all over. I just want to know. Is that a blue shark?
>> But I think we should do version. It's like the Steve series of the same video.
the Randall series of the same etc. Right.
>> Perfect.
>> You remember um that show was it called like mystery >> Mystery Science Theater?
>> Yeah. They like comment on a movie as they're watching it. What you should do is comment on a narration as you >> Yeah.
>> You know how they like to like be like, "Oh, the two animals love each other and blah." They like make them like people and [ __ ] >> This little fella >> is taking a stroll.
orcas >> because I know when when you're watching that stuff with your family, they're like, "They don't actually do that.
That's not true."
>> Yeah, >> I think we've got we we're on to something here. Okay, moving on. So, we've talked about this before. Um Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and whether or not uh on a state level um uh they'd be able to manage Atlantic red snapper. And that um that's now the case. So, so those four states have extended seasons. Um, I'm not going to go through all the details, but like last year, uh, in 25 the season for commercial snapper was 2 days.
Before that, it was just one day and this year it's about, um, a month, a month, month and a half in most of these states. Um, so greatly, uh, expanded number of days to fishnapper.
>> Recreational.
>> Recreational. Sorry, sorry, I said commercial. Recreational.
Um okay, some bear attacks. One, unfortunately, um we've discovered has ended in um the death of a hiker. This t this took place in Glacier National Park, which is in Montana. Um, the body of a hiker was found after being reported missing. Um, uh, on the Mount Brown trail, um, about 2 and a half miles up that trail, 50 miles from the trail head. Um, >> no, no, no. He was 50 feet from the trail.
>> Sorry, I just said miles. My goodness.
50 feet off the trail. Um and uh when he was found um it it looked like the injuries that he or she cuz they haven't released the identity >> um of the individual. Uh the injuries made it seem as though there there was an encounter with a bear. Um so that was just the other day.
>> First fatal attack in Glacier since 98.
I can't believe that.
>> You're just drawing like an arbitrary line. There's been plenty of fatal attacks in like Northern Continental Divide.
>> Sure. But I can't believe they went 28 years without >> When was Night of the Grizzly?
>> 60s.
>> Was it 50s? I don't know.
>> Was it that long ago?
>> Easy to find.
>> Um, and the other um incident happened >> 67 >> just in our backyard in Yellowstone.
There were two hikers that hap he they happened to be brothers um and they were mauled um initially one in serious condition one in critical I think um reports say that they are both um probably going to make it they're in ao uh in a hotel in a hospital in Idaho and they were uh they were both airlifted um so hopefully they make it um and >> you know this one They do like the last time, you know, and it's usually some long time ago.
>> The last time someone was So, it's the spring, right? The last time someone was injured by a bear in the park was the fall.
>> Yep. So, September 25. So, and then the last um fatality in Yellowstone from a bear was 2015. So, much more recently than uh the last fatality in Glacier.
They've now closed down a section of the park. I was fishing in that closure area three days before this.
>> Oh, no kidding.
>> I don't think they should do that.
>> They closed a big They closed a big area. Um it's like I was just looking at the map like >> maps area. Yeah.
>> Five by like almost 20 >> That's ridiculous.
>> Mile area. Um that was that was the other day. So I'm not sure how long they'll continue to keep that closed.
It's it's just temporary. But that that area is closed to visitors. Two guys got um this is pretty crazy. Two guys in Montana got charged with having two 223 ducks over their limit.
>> Two guys are hunting in the Sun River in January and they a game they're hunting on private land and a game warden sees them. He goes up to see what they got going on. Two guys. Okay. daily bag limit of seven ducks. These two guys have 66 ducks laying there.
Then they go to one of the guys shops and they had that brought the total up when they go to his shop and see like his butchered partially butchered and butchered ducks brings them up to 223 ducks. He had two days in January when they killed 120 ducks.
His claim, >> yeah, >> was that it had been a slow year.
>> It had been a slow year and he was just trying to get stocked up.
>> I understand trying to explain yourself, but it ain't like that's going to get you out of, oh yeah, okay, I understand. Give me your best Give me your best shot here.
>> You don't just >> He's like, yeah, he's like sitting in like a mountain of dead ducks. Give me your like, help me understand what I'm saying.
>> Yeah, >> it's been a slow year.
>> And to be fair, like I'm not justifying this in any way at all, but it's actually impressive that they were like butchered and stored.
>> Yeah. What's impressive, this is the thing people always overlook on stories like this, I feel, and I hesitate to even say it.
What's impressive?
This is the thing you shouldn't say, but but I'm just gonna say it.
>> That is some very good duck hunting.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah, I was.
>> That is one of them days >> they must have hit a migration like perfectly.
>> Most of my brain goes toward you sons of [ __ ] but a part of it goes to what in the hell spot they got.
>> Yeah.
again not >> it been a slow year and then it got really really really >> that is an amazing >> two guys >> to get a 66 duck morning is a unbelievable day of duck hunting >> they must have been having such a good time >> the funny thing is that's a slow day down in South America >> when those guys are shooting hundreds of them a day >> yeah unbelievable hunting >> these guys >> and also probably I hate to say it probably good wing shooting. I'm going to stop >> probably neighbors somewhere in Bosezeman. Maybe someone >> maybe someone feels like getting a tip from them to pass to you. So >> yeah, unbelievable day of hunting, >> but also very very very bad.
>> Also very bad. But within that, I recognize what an unbelievable day of hunting.
>> Moving on to mountain lions. Um, pretty cool story. Out of uh Minnesota, they uh discovered what they they discovered the first like set of kittens. It says breeding mountain lions, but I like they can't necessarily confirm that the breeding took place in Minnesota. Um, if you want, you got that video.
>> I have a feeling it took place thereabouts.
>> Yeah. I mean, but some people like she could have walked in. Um, but this just happened in in April. um researchers from the University of Minnesota's Voyagers Wolf Project, which is um Voyagers National Park, but this was this video was taken just south of the park.
>> Uh first confirmed evidence of mountain lines reproducing in Minnesota than more in more than 100 years.
>> And like obviously they knew right arguing with that >> right where those things were.
>> That's not a Mississippi jaguar either.
I mean that's a mountain line. Yeah. Uh, so it's a female and three like subad adult. No way. Um, they believe that these uh kittens were probably born 7 to n months ago. So fall fallish of 2025.
Um, Minnesota's had no documented uh cougar reproduction for over a century.
They've seen they're seen occasionally often like we hear this story over and over again like transient males wandering in from places like South Dakota. Um th those South Dakota mountain lines seem to get around a lot but >> that's all deer hair all over the ground. You see a hoof flapping.
>> Y >> look at that man. What a cool freaking cat.
>> Yeah. Um so they were historically native to Minnesota. became locally extinct because of same old reasons, hunting, over hunting, habitat loss, pre uh predator eradication campaigns, >> poisoning campaigns.
>> Um, and since the early 2000s, they've been seeing them now and then, like I said, coming in from from western states. Um, and it's kind of a connection to a broader recovery in the Midwest. Um, and Michigan's upper peninsula. What was it, Steve? Last year we got the the the >> I can't remember if it was last year, the year before, but yeah, some cat some some kittens showed up in Michigan.
>> A kitten one.
>> So that was the the first one. They they found some kittens and this was in the UP in Michigan.
>> Um and so >> we're looking at a picture of a kitten hiding under a truck tire. Very cute little kitten.
>> At one point they they they saw these things and then they they were seeing them without the mom around. So they're like, "Oh, you know, they probably died.
They probably didn't make it." Well, fast forward to this past winter and you can't at the very top of the screen, you can see >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> So, it like And it's saying that's them.
>> So, it's it's the >> Yeah, man. running a logging road. Yeah.
>> So, Wisconsin, they're seeing more lions. So, like they're coming back and it's a pretty cool story. Bring them on, dude. And then long as like bring them on and then when there's a stable good population, bring on a mountain lion season and I'm happy.
>> Yeah, man. And the way I look at it is maybe those extinct eastern cougars are going to come back someday. Like >> all those dudes back, all those dudes back 20 years ago all over those areas.
>> That sounded crazy.
>> They would see them and the people would be like, "You're nuts."
>> Yep.
>> And they were right. But then at the same time in Mississippi, you are crazy.
Yeah. Yeah. But like Pennsylvania, New York, like you could you could see him getting to like the Eastern Continental Divide in the Appalachins and doing fine, I think.
>> Yeah, man. That's crazy.
>> Yeah, it's a cool story.
>> And and and here's my message to Americans. No, you will not be killed by a lion. That's my message to Americans.
>> And this this story loosely ties into another Mount Lion story that came in.
Um, we had a a fan write in about it to have us us cover it. He was pretty worked up about it. Um, in Texas, they're looking at changing um a little bit how mountain lions are managed. Um, and uh the Texas Parks and Wildlife uh department is urging commissioners to adopt a new reporting system for mountain lions in the state, which would basically be if you kill a lion, you got to report it within 24 hours. And I think now mountain lines are kind of handled like vermin in Texas. Like >> Texas weirdly. And I don't know. I think that Texans don't >> I'm not sure a lot of Texans are aware of this.
>> You are an anomaly.
>> Yeah.
>> Mountain lions are generally man across their range in North America.
>> Highly managed. Mountain lions are generally managed as a big game species.
>> Mhm.
>> Just if you're in Texas, and I'm not telling you not to be worked up about this because I'll get to that in a minute, but if you're in Texas, this is a message to you. Like here we have regional and unit quotas that when those quotas get filled and they have female and male components to them, it doesn't even matter if the season's over. The quota gets filled, it just shuts down. It is there's like mountain lion tag draws.
>> Yeah. And generally like you're only allowed one a year no matter like in most states put in for a permit. Wyoming manages them like a big game animal. Idaho manages them like a big game animal.
Colorado manages them like a big game animal. So a little bit it's like yes, you have to report them.
>> I hunt turkeys in Wisconsin. You have to report a turkey.
>> Mhm.
>> You have 24 hours or 48 hours to tell them you got a turkey. So like the simple fact that you'd have to report a lion >> is not unusual. No, >> it's unusual that your state manages them like apossums.
>> Yep.
>> Like there's no close season, no bag limit. And here's where I empathize with Texans that are worked up about this is my understanding from private conversations with people who are in the no >> is that this is coming from. You always got to look at where is it coming from.
>> Like if it was houndsmen and mountain lion hunters saying, you know what, we should all get together and have a reporting structure. Then you'd be like, "Okay, these are probably guys you could trust." And and you know, who's it coming from? What I've been told privately is this is coming from people whose aim it is is to end the harvest or killing of mountain lions. And so that's why people are suspicious. That's what like it says hunters and some hunters and trappers have been vocally opposed to it because they see this as a step towards ending the take of mountain lines in Texas which man if you're going to fight that battle Texas is probably not the state to fight it in but no >> I sit on both I'm I sit on the fence on this one >> because like report like there's a certain size of something it like a 100 pound cat. If you've killed a 100 pound cat, it just isn't surprising to me that they would want to know.
>> Well, >> like that the state that the state fish and game agency would be curious to know that you killed a big game animal that >> it's not like this is not a shocking thing.
>> Probably because of how they've been managed historically in Texas the like >> which is not managed. the fishing game department probably doesn't have a lot of information on them to begin with and this is a good way to start gathering some data on mountain lions.
>> But if it's coming from people who are like our goal here is to end mountain lion hunting. Step one is to do this thing >> so that we can get some reporting and then use that reporting to turn it into how there aren't many lions around or whatever.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and it's going to you're going to be damned if you do damned if you don't. If that's where it's coming from, if it's coming from an anti-hunting org or anti-hunting people, they're gonna they're going to screw you either way.
>> You're all going to report and they're going to be like, "My god, Texans are slaughtering a thousand mountain lions a year." Or, "None of you report."
>> And they're going to be like, "My god, there's no mountain lions."
>> Yep.
>> Like there's no if it's coming from the wrong place, you cannot win.
>> Yeah. But again, I just feel like Texas, good luck fighting that battle, you know, if that's where it's coming from.
>> My message to Texans is I don't know.
I don't know what to think about that.
>> Uh, I'm going to tell you about walleye weekend. Last weekend, May 2nd and 3rd, was walleye weekend at the Iowa Great Lakes. Uh, the Iowa No, I'm sorry, the Iowa glacial lakes. The Iowa glacial lakes are in northwest Iowa uh refers to a chain of lakes with the headliners being Okaboji and Spirit Lake. Those are the two biggest natural lakes in the state. Uh those lakes are known for two things. One is they have a very strong boat culture that uh gets a lot of bachelor and bachelorette parties to wind up there. Here is me at a bachelor party there.
>> What's on your face?
>> Uh I was trying to figure that out. I think we were playing beach volleyball that day and being being dumb. You're >> smudging. So I I don't know what was on our face. This was probably circa 2013.
>> Is that a KG jersey?
>> Were you even of legal drinking age back then?
>> Yes. I would have been freshly 21, I think. Uh wearing a Stefon Marberry Timberwolves jersey. Yeah. So that's Thank you. That's that's one thing that Okaboji has going on. The other is they have really great fishing. Like some of the best fishing in the state. Multiple state records have come from Okaboji and Spirit. Um, northern pike, smallmouth bass, musky, tiger musky, white bass, freshwater drum. All of those Iowa state records were caught in these two lakes.
Uh, here is a picture of the state record musky that was caught by Kevin Cardwell on Spirit Lake00.
No, >> that that musky 50 pound are muskies native.
>> Is that a tiger musky or a musky?
>> Uh, that is a standard musky, but the tiger musky state record also came.
>> Yeah, but that's a [ __ ] fish. I mean, with all due respect, I've caught him. It's a [ __ ] fish.
>> Yeah, just a just a hybrid. Uh >> with all due respect, >> with all due respect, they they can control like rough fish population.
>> I know, but it's a it's a makebelieve fish.
>> It is. I don't I'm not >> It's a make believe fish.
>> I would imagine they are native to Iowa, Brody, because the Mississippi River forms their border. Um what you think?
>> I was thinking cuz he's from South Dakota.
>> I know. Every time he says something, I feel like he's talking about South Dakota. I know. He could be showing like jungle pictures and I'd be like, I didn't know that was in South Dakota.
>> Uh so so I you know the the Spirit Lake and and Okaboji, they got good fishing and good bachelor parties. Uh walleye weekend now. It's been going on for 40 years. It's put on by the Iowa Great Lakes Area Chamber of Commerce.
>> Is it glacial?
>> I think it's Great Lake. I don't know.
>> Glacial.
>> Okay. It's it's the Iowa.
>> It is the Great Lakes.
>> We should had Rob Sand report this. Iowa Great Lakes Area Chamber of Commerce.
They they've been doing this for 40 years. Last year, they had record-breaking attendance. Uh 2,300 participants from 22 different states.
>> It costs $30 to enter, and that entry fee puts you in the running for a bunch of raffle prizes, door prizes, a big old trophy that they give out at the end of the weekend, and then all sorts of contests. Uh here's some of the contests that you're entered in. Heaviest northern pike. Heaviest walleye.
Heaviest stringer of three walleye under 19 inches. Heaviest stringer of five.
>> Back up.
>> The heaviest stringer of three walleye under 19 in.
>> I'm assuming this plays to their limits.
Like your limit is three walleye and you can only have one over 20 in something like that. I assume that's where >> I think it plays to people shoving sinkers in their stomachs.
>> It just plays into a very boring weigh-in.
>> They they they have all kinds of contests. My favorite one though, >> what was the biggest pike?
>> Uh, this year it wasn't big. It was like nine pounds. So, that's that's not a real special pike. Uh, my favorite one of them all though is the heaviest stringer of 10 bullheads. That's that's one.
>> That's good. I like that. What did that come in at?
>> I I will get to that later here. I don't want to I don't want to ruin that part of the story. Uh, the real prize though, and this is why everyone enters >> is the bullheads under 8 in.
>> No, no, just any bullhead. The real prize, this is what gets them, you know, to have 2,300 people sign up. It's a chance to catch one of the 10 tagged walleye. Now, these 10 walleye are tagged with what's known as a Floyd tag.
It's a little wire tag. It's like an inch or so depending on on the fish in the state. Uh it has a series of numbers on it. It's usually goes around the dorsal fin of a fish. It resembles like electrical wiring or >> I was just going to say it looks like a chunk of wiring hanging out of the fish.
>> Yeah. Or a cord from a maybe.
>> There's a wall-ally dog in there.
>> Yeah. Typically, Floyd tags, they don't contain any micro data. These are not chipped things. Uh it's just basically an ID tag. The the numbers that you see on the exterior of the tag, that's that's what you get with these things.
Uh now, the tagging is done by the DNR and these fish are released about a week before walleye week starts or walleye weekend starts. Uh they're released in both Okaboji and Spirit Lake.
>> Are they catching local walley dogs?
>> Yes.
>> Tagging them, then putting them back.
They're not bringing out of town walley dogs in there.
>> I think these are walleye from Spirit.
>> Could that be like a little weird >> if the DNR is doing all hungry? He doesn't know what's going on.
>> I'm I'm guessing they're not pulling.
Typically states don't have like a brood stock of walleye. They're going out and they're getting their walleye wild and and getting their eggs that way. Good.
>> Um now the tag is done by the DNR and and then they're released a week beforehand. 10 of these walleye between Spirit and Okaboji. If you win the grand prize this year that was $44,000 uh for catching one of these tagged fish. Um, and if multiple people catch a tagged fish, the the pot gets split between them. Uh, that rarely happens.
>> I was thinking that could get expensive.
>> It could. Uh, what I've learned is that their $44,000 prize is insured by a third party in case this were to come to fruition. Uh, that way they they're not always sweating out they're going to pay this out.
>> What's the time frame for catching it?
>> Uh, well, so the the contest starts at midnight on Friday and it ends at noon on Sunday. So you have $36.
>> So like you couldn't catch a tag fish a month later and be like, "Give me my money."
>> There is a side pot that happens. You pay an extra $20 and if you catch one of these tagged walleye throughout the rest of the summer, I think you have until August, you get a much smaller prize, but they're they're still relevant. But this 36-hour window, this is where when you want to catch one of the 10 tagged walley. This feels to me right for um like a really smart person to figure out what's up and rig it >> cuz all they're doing is they're logging that tag number.
>> Someone has access to that tag number.
>> You don't think you'd have to provide the tag?
>> You you bring the fish in.
>> But when they let them go >> someone knows the tag number and it's not released to the public because then you'd have all kind of walleye with that tag number. Mhm. Someone knows.
Maybe they got some way that like they only know half of it and someone else knows half of it. I'll have to ask around.
>> I don't think it would benefit you though. Again, there's no micro data.
There's no like chipping these walley.
>> You just tag with that number and put it in a walleye and go, "Ha."
>> Okay. If Yeah. If the DNR wanted to uh help cheat the contest, they could rig it some way.
>> Uh so 36 hours >> spy movie >> and uh the the to win the $44,000 grand prize. Uh now people take this very serious because of the the pot that's available and they start fishing at midnight when walleye weekend begins. Uh well this year walleye weekend starts with a lot of excitement. At 300 a.m. uh which is 3 hours into the contest. A tagged walleye gets caught. Uh the anglers immediately head to the bait shop. They have their fish verified to claim their prize. But it turns out this tag was from last year's event 2025. So that lady caught last year's >> she she's holding a 2025 >> tag.
>> So she went in there thinking she had that much money and didn't >> did not count. The the the really heartbreaking thing is the Floyd tag was the same color. So like seeing the yellow Floyd tag, it's like we did it.
We got the $50,000 walleye. Let's go claim our prize. So a real devastating start for walleye.
>> Oh, that put me right back to drinking, man.
>> No, it it gets worse. It gets worse.
>> It gets worse. 7 heartbreak.
>> 7 hours later at 10:00 a.m. a second tagged walleye shows up at the bait shop. Uh here's what happened. The anglers said they started fishing at midnight. Uh they they caught a limit or roughly a limit. I couldn't get the exact details on how many walleye, but they had a number of walleye. They head home around 4:00 a.m. after 4 hours of fishing. They throw the walleye on ice, go to bed. Uh they get up at 9:00 a.m.
to clean their fish. And it's then when they realize that one of their fish is tagged, they were drunk. They didn't previously maybe I I don't know uh what their BAC was. Uh but they find that when they go to clean one of their 15inch walleye has a tag on it. So uh this time the tag is from 2026. So it's an eligible fish. Uh but here's the problem. The fish is stone cold dead and the rules explicitly state that a fish must be alive to count in the contest.
What did >> fish Phil has a picture of the flyer for us and this is just page one. I highlighted the three spots where it says this. Walleye must be alive. All fish must be alive. Walleye must be recently caught alive and tagged. So it it it they they mean it when they put in the rules that your fish has to be alive.
>> And that fish is dead.
>> Very dead. He was >> to be fair. It's a walleye. Come on. I mean who you know rules is rules.
>> I guess that was one of last year's Yeah. Rules is rules. Mhm. It was a 2026 fish. It It was thrown on ice. Uh poor guys didn't realize it until later though.
>> They were hauling them in so fast they weren't looking for tags.
>> Then what happened?
>> Uh well, I talked to Mason from Stan's Bait and Tackle. He was the one who checked in uh both the 2025 walleye at 3:00 a.m. and the dead walleye at 10:00 a.m. He personally knows the anglers who caught the dead walleye and they want to remain anonymous. Uh but I got a lot of details from Mason. He said the anglers were aware of the rule. Uh they they pretty much knew when they brought the fish in that they weren't going to get their $44,000 prize. Uh but they went and registered anyway. Then someone from the Chamber of Commerce showed up and confirmed the bad news uh that this fish was no longer eligible because it was dead. Uh Mason said the anglers were pretty bummed uh that they had basically accepted their fate before they even got to the bait shop that morning because they knew what was up. Uh there's also this other wrinkle in the story. The two men didn't know which one of them caught the walleye. Yeah, I was going to say >> and this this was going to create another issue.
>> They're drunk. They're just throwing walley onto a cooler.
>> This this creates some other issues. Uh it's an individual tournament, not a team tournament. And and then they also administer a lie detector test. Uh and under this scenario, neither one of them would be able to firmly say that they legally caught this fish during the tournament hours. So, the whole thing was was layered with problems. Uh again, Mason said that these guys knew they messed up and and they didn't really hang their heads too much. Uh he said they plan to get the walleye mounted actually to commemorate the experience that they had. Um >> commemorate the giant missed opportunity.
>> That's right.
>> See that walleye?
>> A life-changing amount of money.
>> You kids would have gone to college if I had to throw that walleye on.
>> Yes.
>> And actually the the community has handled the news worse uh than those anglers did.
>> Oh yeah. Phil is now going to play for you a clip of someone from the Chamber of Commerce making this announcement at Walleye Week and I want you to listen to uh how the crowd reacts, just how devastated they are. Uh this video is via Travis Chin. Take it away, Phil.
>> Got a call from Mason at stands yesterday afternoon.
>> Have a tag walleye coming in. Good news.
Bad news. Good news. Tag Walleye coming in. Bad news. Walleye is dead on the rule sheet. All tag fish, all fish must be alive.
So that fish was not alive. It uh unfortunately the folks fished until 4:00 or 4:30 in the morning, went home, took a nap, got up to clean fish. Oh crap, we've got to tag walleye.
So we felt extremely horrible about that. Uh the other the other issue is it's an individual tournament, right?
This wasn't a team tournament. They didn't know which angler caught the fish. So, that's a double. Oh, okay. Um Mason is here from Stance and uh they don't want to be recognized, but they're going to get a prize that Mason is providing on behalf of Stan's Bait and Tackle. So, let's give Mason a big hand.
Thank you for that.
>> Just a lot of sad news folks had delivered.
>> I would have I feel like I would have if I was that guy >> Mhm.
>> I would have told the story in a different order.
Do you know what I mean?
>> Yeah. Okay. Give us an example.
>> I would have done like a narrative.
>> He told he he spoiler alerted his story.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Now, here's here's like the biggest reason folks are upset. It's something Mason told me has been talked about for years.
>> The rules of the tournament conflict with Iowa's AIS aquatic invasive species rules. Uh, this is from page 18 of the 2026 Iowa DNR fishing handbook. In big red letters, it says, quote, "Help stop the spread of aquatic invasive species.
It's the law." Then below that, they explain the clean drain dry regulations and say, "Drain water from all equipment, motor, live well, BGE, transom well, ballast system. Uh, before you leave a water body, drain plugs must be removed at the water access and remain open during transport." So, as you can see, that makes it really difficult to deliver the Chamber of Commerce a live walleye when they're making you pull plugs.
>> They should say, "Unless you have a $44,000 walleye dog, then it's okay."
>> Yeah. Despite this, to Macy's knowledge, this has never happened before. This has never been a problem where a dead walleye shows up uh during the contest.
But, as you can see, I was >> He's nitpicking.
>> Make it hard.
>> So, no one won the big prize.
>> Nobody uh Nobody has won it. No. But Mason has said that they've been mumbling about this problem for years, the the community at large. Uh and that he actually heard that this week there's going to be a meeting to talk about these clashing regulations that they have. Uh you know, maybe this $44,000 walleye is what's going to finally inspire a change to allow an angller to bring in a legal walleye that's not transporting water from a lake you're not supposed to.
>> Oh, man. This story that story's got layers, dude.
>> What happens to prize money if no one wins?
is the next year actually. Yeah, the the weekend tournament's over. Again, if you paid the extra $20, you have a chance to catch one of these walleye later this summer. It's a much smaller prize at that point. Uh and and my understanding is the prize money will increase next year because of that.
>> You know, you talk about that insurance outfit that ensures those kind of things.
>> Yep.
>> I was at this event one time and they you could roll it was a conservation or event and you could roll dice to win a truck, brand new truck. M >> I think you had to take a five or six pack of dice.
>> Okay.
>> And roll all one of a kind.
>> Mhm.
>> Which is I looked it up at the time.
It's not going to happen.
>> I've seen it happen.
>> You have Yatsis.
>> Shake a day.
>> I think wasn't it? No. No. It wasn't sh It was I think it was six. Shake a day is five.
>> Five. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think it was six. Anyways, they had the insurance guy was there. I was shooting the breeze with him.
>> Mhm.
>> Um you know what he did? He's got these dice or they got he's got this thing out. He h he weighs He weighs all the dice, >> inspects all the dice.
>> And he took a caliper, a digital caliper.
>> Love this.
>> To the dice.
>> No, you have to.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And no one even came close to winning that truck.
>> I paid for a shake a day for the table at the bar. And this was a few months ago, and Randall won the damn thing. Uh and so we like started going crazy. It was a $70 pot.
>> So, I bought I bought the most loaded nachos I could for the table.
>> Mhm.
>> And then I thought the the the server wanted to cash us out. And I gave her all of the cash and which included a rather generous tip.
>> Mhm.
>> And I said, you know, the rest is for you. And she said, I know.
>> And then it was too late to take it back.
>> It was it was the most sort of passive aggression. And in that moment, I I went from Was she mad at you?
>> I went from feeling very large to very small.
>> Why was she upset?
>> I don't know. Were you guys being rude?
>> No, we were I thought we were No.
>> Place is out of business now. So, >> I'm surpris So, you guys went out drinking without me.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we did.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. There were other co-workers.
>> A lot of stuff happened to be honest.
>> You should feel even worse. And you just seem >> I think that happens a lot.
>> Yeah. It was never invites over. You want to go out drinking?
>> No.
>> What was never acknowledged? If that pot had been like $1,200, Randall, what what percentage would I get of that for buying your $1 shake a day?
>> I would have I would have ordered some sort of strange uh curiosity off eBay for you that's related to rocks or madeup animals.
>> Yeah, cuz I I would have felt entitled to a little bit of that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I want to be asked to do stuff, but I don't want to be asked, you know?
I'm just going to say no.
>> Yeah.
Uh, now at the end of the video earlier, you heard the dude on the mic say that uh Mason from Stan's Bait Shop gave the two anglers a prize because he felt so darn bad for them. Mason didn't need to do that. These prizes come from the uh Chamber of Commerce. Uh, and he said that Mason that they felt like, you know, they deserve something. So, he gave him a couple St. Croy tournament rods. Oh, >> great. Which is like that's a great walleye rod worth north of, you know, 300 bucks. So, good on Mason.
>> Awesome. That's a great tackle shop. And while I had Mason on the phone, I asked him for a fishing report so I could deliver, you know, some real information to our IGN listeners. Uh, here it is.
Spirit Lake has been pretty good for 12 to 14inch walleye, but you need to do a lot of sorting to find the bigger ones.
There's some good crappie and perch fishing, too. Okaboji, guys are doing real well on 17 to 19in walleye. Some 20 plus inches being caught. Not quite as much action as Spirit, though. The pan fish and bass bite has been hot lately.
for either lake. He recommends trolling crankbaits in 8 to 15 foot of water. Uh sweet spot seems to be around the 10 to 12 foot range. He says guys are also finding success pitching jigs around the basins in 18 to 20 feet of water. So there's your midmay fishing report for Iowa >> Iowa's Great Lakes. Now to circle back, what I found to be the most interesting part of the contest is the 10 stringer bullhead contest. The winner this year had a bag of 14.32 lbs. Uh that means his average bullhead was about one and a half pounds. That is a lunker bullhead. Uh Chris Daisy, he he was the champion for the fourth year in a row. Here's a postgame press conference interview that Dave Mashoff got with Mr. Bullhead Champion. Play it, Phil.
>> We're here at the 44th annual Great Walleye Weekend and the heaviest stringer of Bullhead was 14.32 lbs won by Chris Daisy of Spirit Lake. And this is the fourth year in a row that you've won that category, Chris. What's the secret?
>> Specialist.
>> Lots of fishing. Lots of lots of nightc crawers and uh lots of sore fingers.
>> Well, what were you using for bait on those bullheads?
>> Uh mostly nightcrower lead head just casting up underneath the tubes there at Buffalo Run up on the grade.
>> That seemed to be a pretty hot spot.
>> No, it was this was a hard year for bullheads. It took a lot of lot of fishing, a lot of sorting.
>> What do you attribute the the tough go for? Uh my grandpa used to bring me up here as a little kid, so I just keep it going.
>> You said it was kind of tough fishing for the bullheads. Uh colder water or what do you attribute that to?
>> I think it is. Yeah, a lot colder water.
We had a cold snap up here, so it slowed everything down. I mean, the big walleye were biting good this weekend, but everything's slot fish, so had to go for something.
>> Well, congratulations again. A fourth year in a row on the heaviest stringer of a bullhead. 14.32 lbs. You don't want to see Chris Daisy entering your bullhead contest.
>> He's going to clean up.
>> I'll tell you that interviewer.
>> This is Dave Mashoff.
>> Dave Mashoff.
>> You see that move he did?
>> He asked the guy a question. The guy didn't understand and answered something different.
>> So he just very smoothly >> did his question over again with different words and then nailed it the second time and never it never phased him.
>> Yeah. Kept on trucking.
>> You know what I mean?
>> Hard-hitting journalism there.
>> Yeah. He's never like, "Hey, you misunderstood." or or you know, he just is like bam.
>> Mhm.
>> That's an underrated fish, man. The bullhead.
>> Yeah, >> Randall, that was a great segment. That had a lot of layers to it.
>> Uh like like money won and lost.
>> Yeah. Well, uh the Department of Interior announced this week that they officially conveyed or have conveyed 1.4 million acres of BLM lands along the Dalton Highway to the state of Alaska.
Phil, do you have the uh so so what we're looking at here on the screen is a map of the uh great state of Alaska and you can see the Dalton Highway running there from goes from Fairbanks up I don't really know if it officially starts in Fairbanks but basically goes from Fairbanks up to Prudo Bay up like across the North Slope.
>> Well yeah no it does.
>> Yeah. So >> I mean the pipeline goes all the way down but >> Right. Right. Um so anyway, basically you'll see this called a a a public land transfer and that's exactly what it is.
However, um under the terms of the Alaska State Act, uh that law authorized the transfer of approximately 105 million acres of federal land to the state of Alaska. And uh not all of that land has been transferred up until now.
So there's I think what I saw there's approximately 5.2 million acres that the state was entitled to and the state has wanted lands along the Dalton utility corridor. Uh the utility corridor is essentially um a 244 mile uh strip of ground along the pipeline that was set aside by the Nixon administration in the 70s uh with public land I guess ordinance just PLO 550 and 5180.
Um and it was a buffer zone. It also importantly connects a bunch of other public land. So it it it borders uh the Canuti National Wildlife Refuge, the Yukon Flats National Wildlife Refuge, and both the gates of the Arctic National Park and Anoir. Um so it's essentially a strip a long strip of BLM land that's now been transferred to the state um for energy development. And the way this basically went down was they had passed a resource management plan for uh these BLM lands in the past few years. Uh Congress used the CRA, which is the Congressional Review Act, the same thing that they did with the Boundary Waters to uh nullify that resource management plan. And then uh Secretary of the Interior Bergam revoked uh PLO 5150 and 5180 um in February I believe and then finally they they did this transfer. So it's been a long sort of slow running uh process that led up to this. It wasn't really something that was like out of the blue overnight. Um the state has always wanted these lands for uh resource extraction. It's I mean >> it's an industrial >> Yeah, >> I get it's an industrial corridor as is.
>> It's called the Hall Road.
>> It's like a road that parallels a giant pipeline.
>> Yeah. And so so I mean I I talked to several people about this and their take was it's a bummer that they gave them basically everything that they asked for because some of it really isn't suitable for resource extraction. But they're not going to restrict, the state's not going to restrict access off that thing.
>> No. This the state is entitled to make these claims. Um, one concern, it doesn't greenlight Amler Road, but it removes one of the barriers to building the Amler Road. Um, and so again, that's the 200 mile road that would cut uh west across the Brooks Range. Um, and so it's, you know, there's kind of two different kind of two different takeaways. one is like yeah ideally maybe this wouldn't have happened. Um but at the same time the state is entitled to these lands under the uh the statehood act and so >> they will eventually get they will eventually do their claims.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so it's kind of you know wait and see what happens but again like also keep your eyes on on Amler. There was some of that. There was some of that transfer down where we hang out down in southeast.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, the state has Yeah.
>> Uh I've hunted off that highway a fair bit, but always north of that always north of those new lands.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's >> because they they own right over the crest of the o over the so that there's the seeding the land they're seeding is on the north side of the Brooks range.
And we used to hunt off that hall road north of there. Yet. Yeah. Yeah. It's And it's like a popular walk-in area for caribou hunting.
>> Yeah. We would canoe in, but >> yeah, >> you can't you can't fire a rifle within five miles of that pipeline. So, it's a big bow hunting corridor through there.
>> So, that's the that's the news in public lands this week. Um, >> okay. Over >> to Michigan. Um, they have expanded the controversial for no reason. They have expanded walleye spear fishing in Michigan. So in 2021, the state came in and created a spear fishing season for walleye, lake trout, and northeast northern pike.
And they did this experimental thing where they created two zones. They made a zone in Lake Michigan, everything south of the southern pier and Grand Haven south. Lake Michigan only, not the interior waters, was open to walleye spearing.
And then they took an area in Lake Hiron and it was south of Thunder Bay. They made it open for spearing uh lake trout, walleye, northerns, fish that previously you had not been able to do underwater spear fishing. You could underwater spear, you could you could through the ice spear northern pike, but you couldn't underwater spear fish. A lot of walleye fishermen had a conipion about it. What they did was because they're like they're going to kill all the walley.
So what they did was you had to get a special walleye per you had to get a special spear fishing permit and you had to report all your harvests. Okay.
They did it for their three years. They had another year with reporting and now they have greatly expanded spear fishing opportun underwater spear fishing opportunities. You may not know this, but like for the the >> who might not >> you. I'm what I'm going to ask you. The for all the like thousands and thousands of walleye rod and reel anglers that were mad about the spear fishing, do they know how many >> how few people actually >> I'm going to tell them. They're going to know in a minute. They're going to know.
They're going to know some stats.
>> I want to know.
>> They're going to know some stats. The controversy is not over.
>> Yeah.
>> With these proposals. So, a a friend of mine, Jonathan Durka, was is like a a spear fisherman who's like really been ushering this process. I wound up speaking to two commissioners in Michigan over the last months before this happened. I did phone calls with two commissioners and wrote letters pleading for these expansions and they've done the expansions. Can you can you pull up the expansion map? These are the Michigan waters. You're now allowed to spear you're allowed to spear fish underwater spear fishing for walleye, northerns, and lake trout. So, you got basically like from Chicago, so the Illinois Michigan line or there it's the Indiana Michigan line up to uh it's like a little wedge in Indiana in there between Illinois and Michigan along the shoreline. Um, you can you can underwater spear fish from the Indiana Michigan line up to um up to the 45th parallel is where they draw that line and then all the in you know Grand Traverse Bay is out. So the 45th parallel runs south runs across the state south of Traverse City.
There's a little wedge down in Eerie.
>> Yep.
kind of like south of Detroit down to the Ohio State line. You could spear fish.
>> That's right where the Is that where the St. Clair River pops out?
>> That's big. Yeah, it's just right there.
>> Hiron, you could do Hiron all inside the thumb from Thunder Bay, basically Thunder Bay down to the bottom of Lake Hiron out to the Canadian border.
In northern Lake Michigan, they opened a big stretch along the southern Upper Peninsula offshore with some key areas removed. And they opened up a bunch of Lake Superior on the off the northern coast of the upper peninsula minus some some big spawning grounds out there that are closed.
So that's great news. However, the Chipoa Ottawa tribes are protesting not the expansions.
They've written a letter of protest saying they want to bring back reporting and they want to bring back the special license because they're saying there's no way to know how many people are out there doing this. Well, check this out.
Okay, when they open up the spear fishing license, you had to go get a free certificate. You had to get like a spear fishing stamp. Okay, guess how many people went and got a spear fishing stamp?
>> 43.
>> 112.
>> Way up.
>> 14. 4,000.
>> Okay.
>> Out of those 4,000, guess how many shot a fish?
>> 400.
>> 500.
>> 200 shot a fish.
>> Out of those 200 spear fishermen that shot a fish, those 200 people killed a total of 430.
>> Wow.
>> Couple.
>> They killed 430 walley.
There's probably like half a dozen that are really laying into them now.
>> My buddy, if you pulled him out, the number probably drops down to 330. So, >> so what the Chipoa Auto Tribes are saying, well, they're doing so much to promote underwater spear fishing. It's going to blow up if they don't have reporting and so we need to know what they're up to. Well, angr hours on underwater spear fishing isn't going up.
It just goes down down down as people realize what a [ __ ] it is.
>> Yeah. The barrier to entry thing is just like it's not something everybody's going to go do.
>> 4,000 guys thought they'd go. 200 guys went. Annual angler hours went from 2,300 to 1,900 to 1,400.
>> Yeah. And I'll bet the >> word is out that it sucks.
>> I'll bet >> it's cold. You can't see anything. It's It's cold.
>> And the 4,000 were like people were like, "I'll get it. It's free." A lot.
They weren't ever going to go.
>> So again, get they killed these fishermen. One one of these years, these fishermen kill 430 walley. Now, allow me to ask what. Okay. Oh, let me back up. Angller effort sitting at about 1,400 hours of spear fishing angr effort. Guess how much many manh hours of rod and reel effort occur in Michigan.
1.4 million >> 1.4 million man hours of fishing effort versus 1,400 of spear fishing effort.
Last year in Sagena Bay they killed f in Sagena Bay.
They killed 500,000 walleye.
Spear fisherman statewide 430.
the Detroit and St. Clair rivers, 400,000 walleye. So between Sagenov Bay, which is that little thumb notch, and then down there on the bottom of that little spear fishing area, 900,000 Wall-E, spear fisherman 340.
>> Oh, my buddy >> spear fisherman 430.
>> My buddy on the St. Clair, right? Right there on that St. Clair. They're out there hammering them right now, you know.
>> And that that Sagenov Bay fishery, eight walleye a day, 13inch minimum day.
>> Eight a day, 13inch minimum. They are >> Listen, >> I don't care how you feel about dudes swimming around underwater with a spear gun. It doesn't matter.
It does not matter. I will be there in June hitting it hard.
>> We should do a I'm going to kill all your walley.
>> We should do a t-shirt with you and a wet suit and fins and says it does not matter or don't worry about it. It does not matter. If people want to go in the water and risk shallow water blackout and get all cold, let them.
The question is this, since it does not matter, I look forward to Michigan passing a salmon spear fishing season.
That will be the most awesome thing on the planet.
Cannot wait.
>> You would you hit them like right outside the river mouse or where where would you >> I I I'm thinking flashers.
>> Oh, you'd go down and >> No, I think you'd free drift.
>> Yeah, >> I think you just free drift with flasher chains. Maybe some chum if you can chum.
You can't chum, but maybe they'd let you chum, but they're not going to let you chum.
>> I think you'd have to use a string of flashers.
>> Yeah, >> dude. Ultimate challenge, man.
big old >> and people be like they're GOING TO KILL ALL THE SALMON >> SALMON THAT DON'T >> the annual report will COME IN LIKE THEY got two >> they got two thanks for joining the news show they got two
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