Piers Morgan Pushes Muslim Woman To Remove Her Hijab On Live TV — It Gets Heated

Added: 2026-05-16

[00:00:00]No, well, I mean, in the UK, I don't think we have much of a problem when it comes to, you know, people being able to express their religion and still have a job.

[00:00:07]>> You're a journalist and you work uh currently you're a student but you work at The Guardian at the moment.

[00:00:11]>> Yes, I'm I'm doing an internship at The Guardian. Um but I do think that the ruling does send a message and that message sort of um you know, it it will ultimately alienate people because it legitimizes um intolerant views and it sort of gives the green light to employers to um to discriminate. The European Court has handed employers the right to tell staff what they can and cannot wear in terms of religion and that includes everything from a crucifix around someone's neck to a head scarf worn by a Muslim woman.

[00:00:41]Now, on the face of it, some will say that sounds reasonable. A company wants a neutral appearance, consistent, professional, no favorites and there's a logic to that up to a point. But here's where it starts to feel uncomfortable. A head scarf means a lot of things for lots of different women and I don't think my >> you, what does it mean to you? Well, to me it's a reconciliation of, you know, my Muslim background and my European culture and um but you know, that's not I I can't say that's the same for everyone. For some women >> Do you wear it because of modesty and because you need to cover up your hair?

[00:01:11]Um not necessarily, no. Um for me it's more of a cultural thing. Because we're not really talking about a logo on a tie or a football shirt. We're talking about something a woman may carry as part of who she is, her faith, her upbringing, her sense of self. One of the women in this debate put it plainly, "Removing the scarf isn't like changing your jacket." For many women, it's asking them to expose something private, something they've never shown in public.

[00:01:35]That's not a small request dressed up as a dress code. Well, I think this ruling we have to put it into context of what it is is that this com- the companies who have policies where across the board they say we don't want any religious or political um embellishments at work. We want it to be neutral for whatever reason we feel that, you know, we want to stick to that. And the reason it went to court is because um two Muslim women who wear the headscarf took took the took the companies to court and this is a ruling as a result of that. Now, I think in the workplace, I think actually this is a common sense for companies because we now know where they stand with their policies, but also for if I'm looking for a job, if I know that that company won't accept certain things that I'm really proud of, then I just won't apply to that company. But you would be you would be offended. So I think it's made it quite clear.

[00:02:25]If you find this sort of thing worth following and quite a few people clearly do, it's the kind of story that tends to develop quietly and then matter quite a lot. What also struck me is who this ruling lands on hardest. It applies in theory to all religions equally, but in practice the women most visibly affected are Muslim women and if the result is that they quietly withdraw from the workforce rather than face that daily confrontation, well, that's not neutral.

[00:02:47]That's exclusion with a policy attached to it. How would you feel if I said to you, actually sorry, before we go on air, do you mind? I don't like your jacket. Okay, >> [laughter] >> hey, this isn't this isn't about you saying it to me. This is about a company All right, ITV They want you to wear a suit.

[00:03:04]Well, then we'd have to also you can't just single But how would you feel? No, it's not about a feeling. This is about a a ruling and if you cannot single out a person for wearing a religious outfit just because of their religion. It's partly religion. No, no, no. No, hold on. Hold You hold on. A company cannot It's partly religion. But they've already just been discussing, it's more than that. It's a spiritual thing.

[00:03:29]>> Absolutely. It's something that women some women So if a company discriminated against Hannah for wearing a headscarf, they would be discriminatory.

[00:03:36]No, no, but you're not you're not letting me finish my sentence. My point is this, it's not just about religion for a lot of Muslim women who wear it.

[00:03:44]It can be for modesty reasons to do with their, you know, the culture that they've grown up in. Who are we to say to women, you must be less modest at work. Sorry.

[00:03:54]>> I'm not say I'm not saying it's a way.

[00:03:56]This is a company. If a company decides that it doesn't want political or religious embellishments at work across the board. This applies to Jewish people, it applies to Christian people, it applies to Islamic people. It's interesting that we've only got a lady in a headscarf. We should also have a Jewish person here, a Sikh person here, a Christian person here cuz it affects everybody. All right. And particularly for that company.

[00:04:19]>> that the um ruling is aimed at all religions, but let's be honest that this will disproportionately affect Muslim women.

[00:04:25]Um and you know, I do agree that it does provide clarity for employers to decide who they want in their work, but I I don't think Muslim women have that.

[00:04:33]>> What about women who are not Muslim who want to wear a headscarf?

[00:04:37]And I I'm seriously Lots of women wear headscarves. It it applies. If you are going to a company >> you're not wearing it for religious reasons?

[00:04:44]>> If you want to go want to go for a company and the company have made it very clear they do not want political But what if you're not wearing it? What if you're a non-Muslim who is wearing it What if you're a white English woman at work who actually quite likes the look of a scarf as part of her clothing? Do we ban >> still applies.

[00:05:04]>> though, does it?

[00:05:05]>> apply >> It does apply.

[00:05:07]>> But the thing is then a company director >> religious, I mean worn for religious reasons.

[00:05:11]>> director will then actually use their common sense and actually say to most that person, look, we don't actually, you know, want you to wear it for whatever reason. Or we may want it. It doesn't matter. This isn't a personal thing. This is a ruling, a legal ruling.

[00:05:25]>> in the workplace? Caps? Do you ban everything? You take a common sense approach. That's what most companies do.

[00:05:30]>> sense approach appears Your your your idea of common sense appears to be if you're a Muslim woman wearing it for whatever reason, you're not allowed to wear a scarf. If you're an English white woman, you can wear one. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a common sense approach. And in this country in this country, we've had five high-profile cases where religious dress cases have been taken to the European Court of Human Rights. And what this ruling actually stops is that kind of suing to take place.

[00:05:58]>> stop people wearing poppies on television?

[00:06:01]It depends on the company.

[00:06:03]>> think they should?

[00:06:03]>> It depends on the company.

[00:06:05]>> should be allowed to?

[00:06:05]>> My personal opinion is if you Look, I run a company and I would not enforce that kind of that kind of ruling.

[00:06:12][laughter] I actually look at skills. I look at talent. I look at my bottom line.

[00:06:16]>> Should any company in Britain now, according to this they could have the right to stop people wearing poppies on television? I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO talk for companies. I'm asking you whether you think as a result of this law, it is right that a company would be able to stop its employees wearing poppies because they're a political statement.

[00:06:32]>> I live in Britain and I don't think that ruling will affect many companies in Britain because in Britain we don't have a culture of neutrality. So that's where I think we are very different. Can I just give you the last word? And if an employer did ask you to remove your headscarf under this new ruling, would you?

[00:06:49]Well, no, I wouldn't. And I think it sends a message that, you know, Muslim women can't be in the workforce if they want to be follow their religion.

[00:06:57]>> your job rather than comply >> And I mean the a French MP I mean the you know, the French elections are coming up. He took the ruling as an endorsement of he supports Marine Le Pen's Front National. Marine Le Pen's laughing at it. He took He took it as an endorsement of, you know, the Front National. He said the EC Even the ECJ is voting. Okay. I just don't know why anybody would look at Hannah and think this is in any way offensive to anybody ever. I mean, how is that look offensive?

[00:07:25]>> It depends on the company's, you know, objective and what their corporate image is and what their, you know, values and principles are. It's not a personal thing. Saira There's a difference between a company having sensible standards and a company deciding that a woman's religious identity is an inconvenience to their brand. Hannah, the young journalist in this discussion, said she would rather leave her job than remove her scarf. That's not stubbornness. That's someone telling you exactly where her line is. The ruling won't change Britain overnight, but it has given certain people permission to point at it and say, "Even the courts agree with us." And that permission, once granted, has a way of traveling further than anyone intended.