The Bronx NYPD Off-Duty Shooting NOT being talked about

[00:00:00]And looking at this thing, uh, it's, uh, it's pretty wild. So, right now, we can only make inferences, guesses at this point, gueststimates, and just kind of make our own observations. So, one thing we know is that came out in the paper, not too much information on it, but apparently uh, this cop is assigned to intel. So, I don't know if uh, he used any type of resources from intel while he's off duty. That's very possible.

[00:00:26]You know, I even said to myself, is there some type of, you know, I was telling you like, is there some type of love triangle going on here? Like, how do you end up finding the car that was stolen from his wife? And and unfortunately, I know it sounds terrible to say that, right? Because we have a tendency as cops to have kind of the worst, I guess you could say, uh, guesses or perspectives about what may have happened with another cop. You know, I guess that's part of policing, right?

[00:00:53]You're like, "Okay, what what happened here? What what bad happened?" But I, you know, I'd like to know. I mean, did did he you did he, you know, let's let's let's let's explore that, right? So, he works for Intel. How do you feel about if he did utilize because we don't know at this point if it comes out if he did utilize resources from intel to find a perpetrator off duty that stole his girlfriend or wife's car? How do you feel about that? Honestly, I have no issue with it. I know the NYPD it's like, you know, it's it's it it's it's so taboo to utilize any NYPD resources off duty unless you're part of tier one, of course. If you're John Shell, I mean, you could be retired and utilize whatever you want, but if you're an offduty cop, there's usually hell to pay. What are your thoughts on that? I think we talked about that a prior episode about maybe running plates uh you know, off duty or what what do you think about that? I'm curious. So, you know, I'm curious what our friends and listeners um think about that like utilizing resources off duty if you could.

[00:01:54]>> Yeah. Uh it's it's a big no no. Okay. I mean, first of all, we're not even talking yet about the tactical problems being off duty and and you know, essentially conducting an investigation on your own off duty. you know, the tactical problems with that. Uh when you happen to conduct a a stop, which is, you know, you can kind of see here. Um I it's a big no no. You know, it's a I mean, I've seen how many guys have we seen get in trouble for running names in a computer in a department computers?

[00:02:28]How many guys have we seen get jammed up for that? You know, we talk about also about the higherups who ran who ran uh you and John's name in their systems and how they they um had white shirt immunity when it came to that whereas other guys would get jammed up for that.

[00:02:45]So, I I think it's a big no no. And I think this I think there's a lot of questions in here. And I think that, you know, I, you know, good on this guy for having the skill to to to um to to surveil this vehicle, you know, uh and not get not get uh raised up by the not have the purpose get raised up, you know. But, you know, I I think we would all rather him apply those skills on duty because of the way the job is right now, you know, especially the way the job is in the Bronx. You know, Darcel Clark is she's not a friend of of cops, you know, and you know, she'd rather her I I forgot what her prosecution rate currently is. I I it's more more than likely it's probably in the 60s now, you know, but the Bronx has the worst prosecution rate in the city, but she would rather um prosecute you, the cop, for for for you know, for for good intentions as they as you may think they are. She'd rather prosecute you than prosecute the per in the Bronx. So, with all that said, I I I don't think it's a good idea at all. Okay? And uh I I think again that there's a lot to this story and I think it's most certainly doesn't uh look good. Even if the perp in the car uh uh say had a firearm himself or pointed at firearm at the cop that they're going to come down hard in the absence of any other details. They're going to come down hard on this cop for for basically conducting an investigation off duty.

[00:04:29]Yeah, I I I I think so, too. So, you know, my thoughts about that as far as being off duty and using resources, I get it. It's u DBY 1321 says running plates and department resources off duty is a big nogo. I'm assuming you meant no. No. Yes. Yes. But I do think there are exceptions, right? I I get it. If you're off duty and you have your job phone and you have access to information, I don't think you should just arbitrarily run plates. You know, like if someone say, "Hey, I'm about I'm gonna go out on a date with this girl.

[00:05:01]Can you run her plate for me?" You know, I think that's absolutely silly. I don't think you should be doing that. I don't think you should you should be looking up information. But if your car is stolen, I don't see why you can't run it. Like I don't have an issue with that that I think there are exceptions. I don't believe most things are not never like you. It's very rare in life that we you should never do something. I would and I do think that rules in some cases are meant to be broken, but I don't think everything is never. I don't think it should be a common practice, but I do believe there are maybe some very few exceptions. I have no issue if your car is stolen and you had the access to run the plate. I don't I I really don't see an issue with that because it's not for nefarious intentions or it's not for something uh personalized or to help someone to get a benefit. I mean, you're kind of in a pickle yourself.

[00:05:52]So, but the problem though is really what what's happening with a stolen car, right? So, think about it. When you're a cop, Excuse me. In the end, it's it's just property, right? That's why I have we have insurance. Would I [laughter] Excuse me. Man, this cough has been killing me with these spring allergies.

[00:06:12]But I I think to myself, if my car was stolen, would I really give a [ __ ] Honestly, I don't really have attachment to material things. I personally don't care. My I all I would hope is if you do steal my car, I hope we don't find it because I know you're going to wreck it, right? I just I I I'll take care of it with my insurance company. Like, Mar, are you going after that car, if it's stolen, I don't care. If someone steals my car, I know it sucks. And this is why I think you can't really love material things. All right, I'll make my insurance claim, but I'm not going to go after it and pursue it. In the end, it's just a it's a piece of machinery. It's a car. You're gonna get your money from your insurance company. If they don't find it, I don't think you should be pursuing it. And also, if you think about when you're a cop, when you fill out a complaint report, right, we're talking about a 61, but when you fill out a complaint report because a car is stolen, that is supposed to be closed to patrol. Meaning, there's really no investigation on it, right? There's alarm put on it. If a cop uh if a cop uh does a car stop, that will come up. We have plate readers out there. And we also have a grand loss unit, but something happened to Eric. Oh, it looks like something happened to Eric. Yeah.

[00:07:31]Yeah, guys. Uh yeah. So, um I you know, in in this case, I I I personally wouldn't, you know, unless that vehicle is getting stolen in front of me, >> I'm just not I'm just not going to do it, you know?

[00:07:44]>> That's my point, right? It's not it's not in front of your face, right?

[00:07:48]>> Yeah.

[00:07:50]Yeah. I mean, I mean, think of it. The you're again at a tactical disadvantage here, okay? You don't have your radio.

[00:07:57]You don't have your vest on. don't have even if you could be the best cop in the world, but you don't know more than likely guys, you know, a guy who's stealing a vehicle, he he's it's going to it's not going to be that one dude.

[00:08:09]They're running in twos or or more.

[00:08:11]Okay? So, you're already at a you're already out manned here, okay? and you're already at a tactical disadvantage because they're in a vehicle and at some point you're going to have to the the even if you're stopping them on foot, you don't know what else is in that vehicle waiting for you. You know, I think, you know, I have to wonder if there was some a little bit of pride involved here with the cop. you know that um maybe I don't know maybe these guys are in the neighborhood and maybe you know maybe he's just annoyed that uh they they victimized him you know victimized his wife you know but um I I just wouldn't do it you know unless my vehicle unless I come outside and my vehicle is getting broken into which case I'm taking police action yeah but I'm not I'm not going to to you know canvas the neighborhood for the vehicle and then uh you know try and conduct a car stop. You know, I mean, think of it for a second, right? Most cops get killed on either domestics or or vehicle stops, right? And here you have a a a vehicle stop. So, and and again, you're you don't have your vest on. You can't call for help. So, it's it's it's just a a mess and it's something uh you know, >> tonight.

[00:09:30]>> Yeah. So, I have the video ready. So, I'll play it next. Next.

[00:09:35]>> Yeah. Listen, like, you know, honestly, it's I mean, I I I saw a story first.

[00:09:39]I'm like, what is this guy? Dirty Harry or something? You know, I It sounds cool to go out there and pursue the people that stole your car, but in the end, it's kind of stupid. I mean, because the reality is now, and this is what I fear for this cop, and I don't know. I don't know what exactly transpired when the cop encountered these two perpetrators.

[00:10:05]>> And unfortunately, we can't we can't say two perpetrators right now unless I unless we find out something else happened because the reality is and I'm sure most people know this. You're active or or retired cop. And if you're a police enthusiast, you may know it and some people don't. But the reality is when someone when when a car is stolen, we don't arrest a passenger for that car being stolen unless you saw the passenger. Unless you actually saw the passenger assisting the driver in real time stealing a car. But if you catch a car stolen and the passenger is uh is in the car that the passenger doesn't get arrested because you have to knowingly know that property is stolen, right? And an easy defense is I didn't know this car is stolen. I my buddy stole it. I didn't know. So, we don't arrest the passenger. So, and I think I think uh the cop actually shot the passenger, which I'm I'm not totally sure. I'm trying to get more information on it, but the reality is am I pursuing that car? It sounds great, but no. It's stupid. It's It's just property. Who said it here? Someone said it here. And uh you're right. I think it was one battle after another. Who Who said it here? Oh.

[00:11:13]Who said it?

[00:11:15]Isabelle. Here we go. Isabelle. Man, these these names. Isabelle Germano.

[00:11:21]Definitely Italian. Says you own you own property, not property own you. I hate to say it, but he was wrong according to patrol guide and shot someone over property. Yeah. The end. That's that's what I'm saying. It's just property. And that's why I always tell people, I don't think you should love things that don't love you back. So, you know, it's great.

[00:11:40]I want to wear nice clothes. I want to have uh nice place to live. I want to have nice cars, but I don't love it.

[00:11:45]That's why you have insurance. Someone steals your car. Oh, well, I'll make an insurance claim. You know, if you love your car and that's your baby, yeah, there's some people like that, but you got problems. Honestly, there's a lot of other things in life that you should love. Maybe love, you know, love your wife, love your husband, love your family, love your dog, but you really want to love your car. I'm not pursuing the car. Hey, Geico. Yeah, my car was stolen. All I hope is it doesn't come back. What are your thoughts?

[00:12:12]>> Yeah. So, uh, a little housekeeping before we go further on. So, for those of you who don't know this story, right?

[00:12:18]So, this happened Monday around 900 p.m.

[00:12:20]at at night, right? This happened on West 231st Street and near Albany Crescent in Kingsbridge. That is the 50 section of the uh Bronx.

[00:12:33]And uh according to what we have so far, um the NYPD off duty um was following a vehicle he believed to have been involved in in stealing his um his wife's vehicle.

[00:12:50]Right. He apparently followed the vehicle and um the the vehicle pulled over in that section of the Bronx and the driver got out of the vehicle and then he went to an apartment building.

[00:13:01]He then comes out of the apartment building minutes later and uh the the off duty gets out of his vehicle which was behind that that the um behind the per's vehicle and he he gets out and he draws his firearm at perp and um apparently he they went behind one of the vehicle itself and they might have been a um he might have taken down the the per because later on in the video you can see him on top of the per But at some point when he was on the ground with the perp, he fired a round into the vehicle, right? And you can see the round exit the vehicle on the driver's side and the vehicle then uh drives off.

[00:13:45]And apparently someone in the vehicle was struck in the head with the uh round and they were driven to the hospital.

[00:13:52]And that person that was shot is is uh I believe he's brain dead right now.

[00:13:59]So, um, there's at least three people, three three of these guys in a vehicle.

[00:14:04]Okay. You have the driver who initially got out, went to the apartment building.

[00:14:07]Then you have two passengers. And it appears that one of those two passengers switched seats and then hopped into the driver's seat of the vehicle. Okay.

[00:14:16]Because the driver himself was the one that the the cop had stopped on the ground.

[00:14:21]So, um, we don't know the status of the third individual. Um, we do know again that the the guy who was shot in the head is uh he's brain dead, right? So, let me play the video which uh explains a little bit more. So, >> is under investigation after shooting a man in the head. They >> Yeah. Again, uh we've had issues with YouTube, guys. Okay. So, uh apparently YouTube hates when we when we have a firearm displayed on these videos, right? Even though even though it's for, you know, it's it's for news purposes, right? You can have videos on on YouTube about all kinds of nonsense, but when it's convenient, you know, when it's convenient to shutting down your show, they they they will give you a a um a strike for for displaying a firearm because we had a a couple episodes ago, we talked about an incident in Times Square where someone was carrying a fake firearm in Times Square. And if you recall, that episode was was uh it was shut down. So YouTube removed it from from YouTube and we don't even have access to that video anymore.

[00:15:32]>> Nice nice cartoon, Marlin.

[00:15:33]>> So uh yeah, so we had to we had to do a little creative editing on this so to obstruct the firearm just in case, you know, just in case.

[00:15:42]>> See, that's a Nerf gun.

[00:15:43]>> Yeah, we gota we got to keep our our YouTube overlords happy. We got to appease the overlords, you know, and um kind I'm kind of showing my age because I'm sure all the Gen Zers who are watching are like, "What? What is that, you know?"

[00:15:55]>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's So anyway, he he This is the offduty pointing the firearm, but uh I'll let the uh news reporter explain it. So, let's go.

[00:16:08]>> The incident caught on camera in the Bronx. The 30-year-old victim is now in critical condition. It happened last night in the Kingsbridge section.

[00:16:16]Eyewitness News reporter Sonia Rone is piecing together what that officer was doing at the time of the shooting. This is an offduty cop. You can see him drawing and aiming his weapon at someone, then pinning the guy down behind this white car. Sources tell us the cop's own car had been stolen, and he believed the people in the white car were responsible, including the guy he was holding down. This surveillance video shows a single shot fired, piercing the driver's side window of the car before it takes off, just missing a BX10 bus on its way to Norwood and hitting the window of a bar across the street here on 231st in Albany Crescent.

[00:16:56]The bar already got it fixed in time for St. Patrick's Day. The manager on duty, who asked that we not identify her, tells us customers thought the bus blew a tire until the window shattered. Everybody was like, "Oh my god, that's a shot."

[00:17:11]>> She later learned that the person who fired it was an offduty cop and says he should have known better.

[00:17:17]>> I don't think he was thinking clear because to show like that, you know, that's not really professional or responsible person.

[00:17:25]>> Luckily, no one was hit with the glass inside or outside or on the bus. She says this could have been so much worse.

[00:17:33]>> You get the person down. Why you had to shoot to the to the car? The person shot inside the car is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head. He's 30 years old. Someone brought him to the hospital, possibly in that vehicle. The offduty officer works for the >> you know, look, I um I think I'm I'm I'm being very critical of this situation and I always support the cops. You know that.

[00:18:00]I do. But we have to be make a fair assessment. And look, it sucks. The car is stolen. I get it. your car is stolen.

[00:18:06]It sucks you in the heat of the moment.

[00:18:08]But I just don't think it's smart to to pursue to pursue the car off duty. First of all, you're off duty and you don't have and people don't realize off duty is a big difference from being on duty, right? Yes, you have your train and your skills, your observational skills, but you don't have the resources that you have when you're on duty. It's far different, right? You have what's the biggest resource you have that's more important than anything? And I believe that's your lifeline. We would always say that's your radio, right?

[00:18:35]That's being in contact. People when you're on duty, right? People know where you are because you're in a car with GPS. You have a radio. You're working.

[00:18:44]You you you have a roll call that is submitted to the dispatchers. They know uh who you are uh what you are, your assignment for that day. When you're off duty off duty, you don't have that lifeline. You don't have those connections. You're kind of you're silo.

[00:18:59]You're on your own. And in the end, we're talking about property here, right? Yeah. That's why I tell you, you can't have a connection to it. You can't have an emotional connection to your property or some type of pride with this. Like, you got to kind of be like, "Fuck it. It's just a car." Oh, well, that's why you have that's why you have insurance. But pursuing [clears throat] But, you know, pursuing Let's talk about a flash point here. Pursuing a car off duty, I think tactically you're at a very uh tactical disadvantage, right?

[00:19:29]Because I I always live by this rule.

[00:19:31]I'm not pulling out my firearm unless I'm ready and prepared to fire. Not to hold someone down, not to place someone in cuffs. That's why I didn't take my gun out often, even though I was in some I was in some very hairy situations just as many cops doing special operations, playing clothes, getting firearms. I rarely took my gun out of my holster.

[00:19:52]But if I did, it's because I was ready to fire. I didn't take it out just to put someone down on the ground. Because the reality is if these guys we don't know we don't know what actually transpired. Did these guys uh approach in a threatening manner once once the cop approached them? We don't know if there was any type of tussle. Even if there was if you take your firearm off duty with three occupants in a car that stole your car, what are you doing with that gun? Cuz if they don't have a firearm firearm on them, what are you going to do? If they start to pursue you, what what are you gonna do? You're going to put it back. You're now by yourself with three guys. It's it's just I just think you're putting yourself in a very bad situation. You're making yourself vulnerable and you're putting yourself in a position where you may have to fire that weapon. So, I just don't think it's smart. So, off duty and on duty is a huge difference. Now, if you're in a situation where you're cornered or you have to save someone in real time and you have to deploy your firearm, that's far different. But I think in this situation, he put himself in a very bad spot. I don't want to say anything bad happened to this cop, but I think that is a fair. He put himself in a hairy situation. And let's talk about the other flash point. It just shows you the culture of the job, how it's changed, and how there's really no leadership and people are just going off in different uh tangents and different angles. There was a time and I'm sure most people know this. I I came on the job January 2004 and Mar you came on not that much later and there was a time where you didn't get involved in anything. You knew like unless God forbid a woman was getting raped right in front of you or someone is get in is is a kidnapped right in front of you.

[00:21:35]Something really extreme, you don't get involved, right? If you see something, you call 911, you stay back and make those observations. I remember plenty of times uh cops had offduty had made an observation of a stolen car and they stayed back and they pursued it and they called 911 and they gave the they gave the dispatcher a description. They stayed in contact but they didn't make an approach and when the uniform cops responded they provided assistance to uniform cops by giving them information and details. So we came a long way. We haven't changed. What do what do you think about that? I mean, was was that the way it felt for you when when you came on the job? Like you you only got involved unless it was extreme.

[00:22:20]Yeah. Only when you had to, you know.

[00:22:23]But the thing is though, um, you know, I have no issue withdrawing your firearm depending on the situation because remember it's it's um what you see may not be the same thing what I see, you know, and what I perceive as a as a potential threat may not be what you perceive as as a as a threat. And it's all a matter of if I'm able to articulate that the threat because I pulled out my my firearm um the the last times I I was in enforcement in enforcement duties which was all out in the 67 and I remember I had to chase this guy from for a um for for a uh a grand lararseny from a a uh a shop and he went in the backyard of a of of one of the houses in the So, I lost sight of him for a while. And again, I I talk a lot about the active shooter training, right?

[00:23:21]As I lost him in the backyard, I lost him at a corner. And uh as I went to to turn that corner, I drew my firearm because again, like uh once you've had that active shooter training, again, you become paranoid about those corners and what's waiting for you around those corners. So, I I I knew the guy was blocked in into the backyard, but I was I was thinking, "Okay, maybe this guy's cornered. Maybe he's he he's he's getting ready to to to blast me as I come around the corner." So, I drew my firearm and I was cutting the pie, so to speak, you know, as I was, you know, getting around the corner. So, I I think it's it's a matter it's a matter of of what you perceive as a threat. And I I have no issue for I I have no issue about drawing a firearm. But again, the issue is if if if you see a vehicle getting stolen in front of you, that's one thing. But to be conducting an investigation and canvasing the neighborhood and then trying to find a vehicle, I I think it's something completely different. And I I I wouldn't I wouldn't I no way I would do that, you know. And the problem is something to think about also is that in this day and age where where you know these young guys they make a lot more than when we came on the job, right? But at the same time things are a lot more expensive now too, you know. So who's to say that he had insurance on that vehicle? You know, he might have not had insurance on that vehicle. There's a lot of people that have that, believe it or not, they have vehicles that are like five years old and they don't put insurance full coverage on that vehicle just because they're trying to save money. And I think it's it's we don't know his situation. We don't know his the situation that that you know um you know, moneywise and expense wise. So to him, maybe that vehicle was, you know, the his wife's [clears throat] lifeline to to work, you know, and he doesn't have full coverage on it. So, it's like it could be potentially devastating to lose that vehicle, you know, especially if he doesn't have rainy day funds needed to, you know, just go to the dealership and get another vehicle or get a lease or whatever. So, I think that that that that might play a part in it, but I would say that you need to think long term and not just in the moment because your job is more important than your vehicle right now, you know, and um it it is the Bronx, you know, they hate you. And again, let's let's let me go back to that what the uh restaurant owner says, >> a responsible person. Luckily, no one would known better.

[00:26:02]>> I don't think he was thinking clear because >> to show like that, you know, that's not really professional or responsible person.

[00:26:10]>> He doesn't even know what happened. Beat him up.

[00:26:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. These are the people you face in a Bronx. This is a Bronx jury talking to you right now. Okay.

[00:26:19]>> So, they already don't like you and they don't give you the benefit of the doubt already. So, with that said, there's no way I'm doing this, you know? No. No way.

[00:26:29]>> [clears throat] >> Look, I just want to clarify. I'm not saying I have an issue with people taking out their firearm >> and there people everyone has a different threshold uh for situational awareness and what they perceive as a potential threat. But I'm just saying for me for me that's how I policed and my rule was, excuse me, I didn't take my firearm unless I was prepared to fire.

[00:26:52]And yes, if you need to cut the pie and you're turning corners and thank God that eventually the police department started teaching that because when I when I came to the police department for the Marines, they didn't teach slicing the pie, cutting the pie. It's something they teach in the Marines. That's big. I was really surprised that they teach that. But yes, when you're cutting the pie on blind corners, you may need your firearm because it's a potential threat.

[00:27:14]You may have to fire, right? Because someone may have a firearm. So that I totally agree with. Excuse [clears throat] me. In certain situations, I think taking your firearm out, you actually put yourself in a vulnerable situation.

[00:27:25]There's a lot of, and this is why I always say you have to train, train, train, and be prepared because the firearm is a tool and know when to use that tool. And I I think unfortunately not all cops and I think the NYPD is probably the best when it comes to this.

[00:27:42]I would say top-notch compared to any other police department is the firearm is the last resort. It's not a tool that most of us rely on, right? We're not we're not trigger happy. I I don't think so at all. And you can see the numbers in a police department of 25 to 35,000 depending on the manpower. you don't see uh that many cops in percentage- wise in relation to the size of the department pulling the trigger. So I I think on the average I remember one year it was like I remember a couple years I was tracking it was maybe 40 to 50 some odd uh cops had pulled their trigger and that I think that's really nothing in a city of 8 million people and a police force with 35,000. So, I I think that yes, you have to have your firearm, but what situation? And I I don't And there are unfortunately there are some people that are relying on I've worked with cops before and on car stops or just encounters, they would take their gun out and put it by their leg and have it on the floor. And I used to say, "What is that? Is that your balls?" To me, if you're keeping it by your leg, that's your balls, right? That's that's like a security blanket. Because the reality is, if you take your firearm out, point it at the threat, that means that it's necessary. If you're holding it by your side, maybe you're watching too many Dirty Harry movies or bet your balls and that's your security blanket. That that's that that's those are my thoughts on that. And the other flash point, you spoke in more in depth on what I was saying. I don't think that you should love a car or be emotionally invested into it. And all the things that you just pointed out, the cop would be emotionally invested into it, right?

[00:29:21]Maybe like you said, uh not having the proper insurance that you need if a car is stolen. Uh maybe that's their lifeline. They use it for work. And unfortunately, at that moment, if those factors are contributing factor to pursuing the car, you're emotionally invested. Well, and and I'm saying I I don't understand it. I understand it. I can empathize with it. But still, you have to take a moment back, detach yourself from the situation, and not be emotionally invested. Say really, I'm an offduty cop. I have a lot to lose here.

[00:29:49]I have a lot of responsibility, a lot to bear. Is it worth me pursuing this car?

[00:29:54]And that's where I think really the job the culture has changed because I know even though I'm I'm telling you right now, someone stole my car, I want to pursue them. I want to get their asses.

[00:30:04]I want to get them. Especially if they stole my wife my wife's car. Hell yeah, I want to get them. But knowing the culture of the job and how valuable it was to work towards that pension and stay out of the limelight and not get modified or suspended, I wouldn't pursue that car. And that was the culture. And that's what I'm saying. I think the culture has really changed. Maybe people don't see the job in those terms anymore. Maybe not they're not preaching that. Things have changed. Things have changed. Surely they have.

[00:30:33]>> Well, something I'm curious on is is how much uh time on he he has, you know. So, for those of you who don't know, he he was in the public uh security section, PSS, which is a a unit in Intel. Um I believe they they do um they basically do security at like Gracie Mansion. I I don't know what other um buildings they do security at. Maybe Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what other where what other locations they do, whether they do City Hall as well, but uh I know for a fact they do Gracie Mansion. And this is that's happens to be where he was uh you know where he he worked regularly. Um so I wonder what how much time on he has because I'm not sure if a guy with uh a lot of experience on would do that necessarily, you know. Um, and the other thing is if he he you know, we talked before about guys being very young and getting uh put into a lot of these units that, you know, I'm not I'm I think it kind of um gives them a false sense of of security on the job, you know, especially if you're young, you get put in a unit like that, which means more than likely you know somebody on the job, which means uh to a certain degree you you've been protected on the job. So, you you have a false sense of of of security on the job that that you know, you you're not thinking that you might get in trouble for for a lot of these things because again, you know, somebody. So, I I have to wonder if that comes into play because I I'm not sure a guy with a lot of time on would would have done that, you know. But, you know, I I I commend him for I I I got to say this guy looks like somebody who's very familiar with with with being active, you know, to have to have the confidence to even have done that off duty is is very very fascinating to even have even though I'm going to say again that tactically speaking, I I see a lot of mistakes in in there. In particular, him going in between the vehicle and uh parked vehicles. I mean, uh, let me see if I can >> was hit with the glass inside.

[00:32:44]>> If if you see the video, um, let's go a little further.

[00:32:52]Yeah. See if if you see he he's walking. Look where he goes.

[00:33:01]He sandwiches himself in between the the purpose vehicle, but keep in mind there are two other occupants in the vehicle right now and a parked vehicle. And you know, I'm that's a tactical mistake that I'm not sure a guy with a time on would have actually done that. Okay.

[00:33:17]You know, you don't I mean, you don't know what's in that vehicle and you have no way of of getting, you know, finding cover over here, you know, and again, even if you get into a scuffle with the per or you or let's say he he he follows your your commands, he gets down, you don't know what's waiting over here, what's looking at you with your back turned. Okay? And you know, sure enough, he fired at a vehicle, but you can see that puts you at a tactical disadvantage here. So, um, I see a lot of mistakes in here that I wonder how much how many time how much time he actually has on.

[00:33:55]>> Well, you know what? I'm not a betting man, but on this one, I'll bet that this cop has less than five years on the job.

[00:34:01]There's no doubt about it. is a senior cop even in this era, I'm not saying our era, is is not going to pursue a stolen car. I mean, are there exceptions of course, but I I would I would think the majority of cops are not going to pursue it. And especially in that position, the reality is when you be cop when when you're a cop over time in many years, you realize that that gun, some people like to believe a gun is an equalizer.

[00:34:30]It's not, right? It's not like the movies. You can shoot someone and guess what? If you shoot their right arm, they still have a left arm. If you shoot their left arm, they still have a right arm. If you shoot them in a leg, they still hurt you. And and the reality is I think it's I think I remember the percentage. I got it somewhere in the job at some training. And I remember I don't know. I I actually looked it up. I couldn't find it, but I remember in some training they said 86 or 87% of gunshot wounds are survivable. really extremely high rate are survivable, which I thought was really quite interesting and and alarming. And the gun is not an equalizer. And I think over time you realize that hey, if if you confronted three guys with a firearm, that doesn't mean you could actually stop those three perpetrators or persons of interest. I don't think it's a smart uh position to put yourself in. I think tactically it's not smart. And it just it looks silly, right? You're behind he's behind the car. As you said, there's still occupants in the car. You don't know what they have on them. You don't know what's inside that car. So, I think if I had to bet, I would say this cop is pretty new. And just the ideology also of pursuing that car. And I know Maron, I don't even have to ask you. I don't even have to ask John. I know it. Even though we want to, it's that fire in your belly. We're not pursuing that car.

[00:35:51]We're going to call 911 and say our car was stolen. uh you know and and if you do utilize it, if you're off duty and you have some type of resources, it may say, "Hey, I checked it out. Uh here's where it's headed, but I don't think you're pursuing that car. Men, I don't I think you have the discipline that you're not doing." And also, part of the culture that I grew up in the police department, John, same thing. Rob, Ron, I think we'd all want to pursue that car. I I'm sure Tom and Pete would say the same thing, but we're just not going to do it. We're not going to put ourselves in that situation. We'll assist the police to bomb it, right?

[00:36:23]tell them the information that we have that will lead to the car. But I mean, personally, if someone steals my car, if anyone anyone knows anything about insurance, I just hope don't find it.

[00:36:33]That's what I'm saying. Don't find my car. But here's the other thing I'm thinking. He's assigned to Intel. So, is he part of tier 2? I talk about the tiered system in the NYPD, right? Is he part of tier 2? Is he a net baby? Does he have connections where he felt emboldened that he could do this?

[00:36:50]Because I I'm I'm pretty sure even now with the way things are, I it's highly unlikely un unlikely that most of the general population NYPD are getting involved in this situation because they know there's going to be hell to pay.

[00:37:02]But this cop is assigned to intel. That struck me that there wasn't much meat and potatoes to the article, but the fact that this cop is assigned to intel and does security at Gracie Mansion because the article was kind of tacky, right? There wasn't much meat in there, but they threw in the fact that well he is uh sometimes works near Gracie Man.

[00:37:23]I'm like, "Wow, that's kind of tacky."

[00:37:24]Whoever wrote that article, but um that is an important piece of information because maybe he's a nepo crony that is part of tier 2 and thought, you know what, I could do it. I got the connections. And maybe he could because guess what? He's only modified. He didn't get suspended. In my opinion, most cops involved in this situation, even if it was a good shoot, the determination is made, they would be suspended, not modified.

[00:37:53]>> Yeah. Keep in mind also that PSS um I I know a a couple cops who've gotten into um incidents that, you know, that were good shootings or, you know, they did something good and they get transferred.

[00:38:05]PSS is is one of those units that they some of them uh end up going to. you know, it's one of those units in intel.

[00:38:12]So, if he's not an EPO baby, he could have been he could have been involved in a prior incident where he, you know, it was a it was a say a good shooting or or like a good deed or something something that brought that was uh noteworthy, you know, and he got transferred there. But um I see a I I I hate to say it, but it seems uh I watched that video and he seems a little overconfident, you know, and you know, you don't want to be overconfident on this job, you know, especially with car stops, man. Those car stops. I I used to think all the time of like I look back at car stops and I I think how could we approach this vehicle and get like the tactical advantage, you know, just because like when it was just me and my partner, like how can we approach this vehicle? And you know, no matter how many ways I think about it, like you're you're at such a disadvantage in with a with a vehicle, you know, especially with dark tints, you you don't know what is in it and what what could be pointed at your head from the vehicle, you know. So, I I think um again, a guy a guy with a lot of experience and who who has done a lot of that, a lot of car stops, I don't think he would have done that, you know.

[00:39:31]Well, I think this is the the main focus, the centric focus of what we're talking about today. And DB Dave S, what's up, brother? Uh, good friend of the podcast. He's a Raiders fan. I think he's spot on. This is the discussion that we're having. I think we should talk further into this and I think this is how it will be investigated if it goes to the attorney general. And DB Dave says the issue will be was he threatened? Was there fear for his life?

[00:40:01]And then DB goes on to say, or did he put himself in a situation that could have been avoided, especially off duty?

[00:40:09]Spot on, brother. Spot. I think that's that's the meat and potatoes to this discussion. Was it necessary for him to pursue that car in real time or did he put himself in a situation off duty and he didn't need to be there?

[00:40:29][clears throat] And and that's why I'm saying we're talking about a stolen car.

[00:40:32]Now, if someone in real time robbed someone, you know, in front of your face, maybe if if you walk through a store and the store was being robbed, god forbid if a a woman was being raped, I would hope you would stop that. I would really hope that or a kid was being abducted, abducted. I mean, these are extreme situations, right? Highly unlikely you will see that in front of your eyes, but hey, things do happen. I would hope, right? You're the you're the person standing between, you know, good and evil at that point. But a car stolen, yeah, it's car. It's a point.

[00:41:09]It's you. Some people named their cars.

[00:41:10]You might have named it. I don't know.

[00:41:12]It's your wife's car. Now, this is getting We're getting some emotions involved, right? Your ego's getting there. This is your wife's car. I get it. But are we pursuing that car? I consider myself, you know, a go-getter and I'm pretty motivated and I don't like people to take advantage of myself or my wife, but I'm not pursuing that car. Not with the culture of the NYPD. I I trained in, I worked in and understood and just just for my own concern, right?

[00:41:42]It's important. I want to keep my pension. I don't want to put myself in a lose-lose situation because I believe the cop put himself in a lose situation.

[00:41:49]You're off duty. You're by yourself.

[00:41:53]and you're pursuing a car that's stolen.

[00:41:57]What good can happen? Yeah, maybe you get your car back, but how do you get that car back? And you're by yourself.

[00:42:04]How bad could these things get? So, I'm not I'm not getting involved in that situation. You're not. John's not doing it. I know it. But he did. I I I find it highly unlikely that a senior cop would do I mean, what what do you guys think?

[00:42:22]What do our friends and listeners think?

[00:42:24]I mean, I'm I'm not knocking a cop, you know, I don't know what happened once he was in that situation, but I am knocking him for pursuing the stolen car. I I remember when I was in the once prison and I was a I was a rookie. I'll never forget Nancy Cerilliano. She was the sergeant, right? Hard hardcore, man.

[00:42:46]Like, they don't make female sergeants like that anymore. She knew the job. I mean, she was an alpha female. You know, she's a female. She was very feminine.

[00:42:54]But on the job, Ed, she held she held it down. She was on the radio. She took control. And one time I got into uh I got into an accident with the with the R&P. Right. If you're u Yeah. Smith puts Nancy. That's right. She was Sergeant Seriano, but we to Nancy, right? Nancy was no joke. They don't make NIsies anymore. So, I never forget. And she was right. I got into an accident. I was driving and I was going fast to uh at the time it was a 30 the radio code was a 31 right so sorry 32 something stolen and I was a rookie and I you know it wasn't often I had a car I was in a car I was going fast and I actually I was in the right someone went through a light and and hit me but at the at the same token she responded and she said what are you doing and never again she asked where you going? And I remember, she was being facicious. I remember I told her, "Well, I'm going to this job." She said, "No, where you going? Where you going?

[00:43:55]It's stupid. You're not going anywhere.

[00:43:57]It's just a stolen property, right? You don't have to race to get over there."

[00:44:01]Even though you're right, right? This person hit you. You don't have to You don't have to race to get there. In the end, it's just property. And you know what? She was right because I never got into another R uh accident after that, you know, because I remember her, you know, thinking she was right. It better be important. There's somewhere I need to get to and it's just property and and that's what she said. Where you going?

[00:44:24]Where you going? And you know, so she was absolutely right. You know, she know. So, uh, Nancy, if you if you ever watch this, we appreciate it. And, uh, thank you so much. We learned a lot from you. So, Mom, don't you agree? I mean, it's just property.

[00:44:40]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I agree.

[00:44:42]It's not worth it. Especially with your pension. Your pension is more important.

[00:44:46]No, then uh than a car, you know. Uh I mean, you lost that car. You Yeah. But you know what? Do a couple more hours of overtime and uh you know, and see if you could get another car. It's just it's it's not worth potentially getting locked up or, you know, losing your job certainly, but then getting locked up by by either Darcel Clark or or or um Leticia James, you know, and uh and keep in mind the the most that as we saw in that video, you know, the Bronx jury, I I think you're already handicapped, you know, dealing with a Bronx jury. So, I I I don't think it it's it's worth it. And um I I think um you you'll have to wonder if this cop was aware of of Sergeant Durant, you know, cuz I find a lot of cops don't keep up on current events. And they, you know, you'd be surprised. Cops don't even know the incidents that have that have happened involving uh other NYPD cops. And if you were, you should be thinking about that in the back of your head. you know, they got him and you know, Leticia James would be more than happy to lock you up, too. So, again, it's it's just not worth it, you know, but um I suspect that there is a lot going on behind the scenes with this one, you know, and the fact that it's been so, you know, it's kind of a, you know, not a lot of information trickling out of one PP regarding it. But, you know what? What caught me? I thought this was strange on um I thought this was strange that this came out yesterday as well. Did is is she codified this um policy which she this policy was already active you know under her that the body cam footage gets released within 30 days. So not much has really changed there. All they did was make it the permanent policy. So why exactly was this a a press release? you know, even uh there's a comment here from Pat Hendry where he says, "This really doesn't change much." You know, it's like a press release about really nothing. So, I thought it odd that they released it yesterday, you know, and what I'm thinking is that there's a lot going on behind the scenes with this.

[00:47:03]And uh you know, I I I think in a lot of ways this was to draw the attention away from this incident.

[00:47:27]>> [music]