Senzo Meyiwa Trial: Witness Expected to Address Claims About Ntanzi’s Cellphone

Añadido: 2026-05-30

[00:00:13]I spoke to him in chambers. I know him for a long long long time. But uh I want him to display or show us his certificate so that the Yeah. Three to to to my brothers here.

[00:01:06]Okay. Are we starting after this?

[00:01:18]Malot, I don't want have to see this. I know this gentleman for 100 years.

[00:01:24]>> Yeah. No, that's okay. Just that the problems we had the other day.

[00:01:30]>> Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no.

[00:01:35]>> Thanks. Thanks.

[00:01:51]Please call for me. Sergeant Taka outside here.

[00:03:01]Yeah, just for the records.

[00:03:08]Just for the record, please your name on on record.

[00:03:12]>> Valentine Harris, the interpreter for today.

[00:03:16]>> Okay. In >> this matter of you are another.

[00:03:23]>> Thank you.

[00:03:23]>> Thanks.

[00:03:25]Yeah. So they witness in my lord. Thanks. Thanks.

[00:03:54]Uh Can >> may the witness be seated by Lord?

[00:04:02]>> Yes. Yes, she may be. What's wrong with the machine now? Just asking for the name of the >> Yeah, I'm sorry.

[00:04:24]>> Thank you. Thank you sir. Now good morning ma'am.

[00:04:30]>> Morning.

[00:04:31]>> Now ma'am I see that you are wearing a face mask on and just for the record you have placed you've told me earlier on that you are a bit under the weather with influenza. Correct.

[00:04:49]That's correct.

[00:05:00]Nonetheless, ma'am, thank you so much for availing yourself and making time to come and assist the court.

[00:05:11]>> Now, ma'am, you are a member of the South African Police. Is that correct?

[00:05:18]>> Yes.

[00:05:22]What is your current rank?

[00:05:29]>> Are you based at any police station?

[00:05:35]>> Which one?

[00:05:37]>> Valeria police station.

[00:05:38]>> Valeria police station.

[00:05:44]>> How long have you been stationed at the Valeria Police Station?

[00:05:51]15 years.

[00:05:52]>> 15 years.

[00:05:57]Now ma'am, please place your history within the employee of the South African police on record from the time you entered the academy until you graduated from academy.

[00:06:20]2011 24 January.

[00:06:24]>> 24th January.

[00:06:26]>> Yes.

[00:06:26]>> I resumed duties in the year 2011. The 24th of January 2011 college for training. I went for training in Ptoria West 2012 as a student Valeria police station. In 2012, I started as a student at Valeria Police Station in 2012 and after the studying I became a constable at Valeria Police Station 2022 1 April. Okay.

[00:07:26]>> On uh the 1st April 2022 rank, >> I was promoted to a surgeent rank >> at the same Valeria Police Station.

[00:07:47]Now ma'am, I'm going to hand you a document and I'm going to request you that you identify that document for me.

[00:08:07]identified that document.

[00:08:13]SAP 15.

[00:08:15]>> This document is called SAP 15.

[00:08:22]SAP 15.

[00:08:23]>> Would I be correct, ma'am, to say that an SAP 15 is a duty roster of police officers that are on duty at the station on a particular day.

[00:08:45]You know it is correct. You are correct.

[00:08:57]If you can place on record the duty register for that appears in that SAPS15.

[00:09:12]What is the date and what time did your shift start on that day?

[00:09:26]0207 shifted to >> 2021 0 >> 0207.

[00:09:34]>> It was on the 7th February 2021 when I started >> shift in the morning. The shift started at quarter 26 in the morning to five 5:45.

[00:09:55]>> Yeah. 1800 hours >> and it ended up at 1,800 hours.

[00:10:07]And if you can place on record what is noted at serial number 05.

[00:10:27]05 the entirety of serial 05 ma'am.

[00:10:32]Yeah.

[00:10:33]>> Posting constables assistant.

[00:10:36]>> It's a posting of constable CSC assistant.

[00:10:42]>> CSC assistant.

[00:10:54]>> And that constable tag will be you. Is that correct?

[00:11:00]>> Yes.

[00:11:04]and you were posted as a CSC assistant.

[00:11:07]Uh for those who do not know, the CSC will be the client services center at the police station. Is that correct?

[00:11:15]>> CSCO client service center police station.

[00:11:21]>> Correct.

[00:11:31]And what does a CSC assistant do? What did you do in that room on that day?

[00:11:46]The C at CSC we are assisting at the church office.

[00:12:00]>> Okay. I'm going to hand you another register which I'm going to ask you to identify.

[00:12:23]Can you identify the register in front of you ma'am?

[00:12:29]Occurrence book.

[00:12:32]>> Yes, it's occurrence book. We shortly say call it OB.

[00:12:45]Now, if I can direct you to entries 356 and 361 uh of the occurrence book uh 356 and 361.

[00:12:58]Uh it will show cell inspection. Did you participate in conducting cell inspections on that day?

[00:13:07]>> 361 and 351.

[00:13:15]I see. Yes.

[00:13:16]>> Did you conduct cell inspections on that day?

[00:13:34]on 356 with whom did you conduct the cell inspections?

[00:13:38]>> 356 inspections?

[00:13:44]>> I was with Sergeant and on entry 361 with whom did you conduct the >> 361?

[00:13:57]Sergeant Mudaw with Sergeant Mudawge.

[00:14:06]>> And can you tell me in brief uh what do cell inspections entail?

[00:14:13]Inspections.

[00:14:25]We go to the cells to check where the condition of the detainees.

[00:14:36]>> Now ma'am in brief uh without much ado the reason why we called you here is the following.

[00:14:47]There is accuse number two in this court whom we call Mr. And on this day, the 7th of February 2021, he had been held at Valeria Police Station in the cells on and off for a period of over 3 four months.

[00:15:41]February 2021.

[00:15:47]Now there are two police officers that are involved in the investigation of the case against Mr. Antanzi, namely Sergeants Maba and Muani.

[00:16:08]Mena.

[00:16:18]Do you know those two officers and yes, I know them.

[00:16:30]Can you tell the court how do you know them?

[00:16:37]>> Police station.

[00:16:38]>> I know them when they came to the police station.

[00:16:50]>> They came there to come and see number two.

[00:16:59]How often would you see them coming to the station to see accuse number two, the suspect?

[00:17:16]once.

[00:17:25]Now the essence is this. Both officers say they received information from Valyria that Mr. Antani was in possession of a cell phone in the cells.

[00:17:49]No, no, let me correct. They got information.

[00:17:55]Number two, we are sorryful.

[00:17:59]>> Do you understand that?

[00:18:02]and and and that on the day uh they then descended upon Valeria police station >> on the day on the 7th of February 2021 they went to Valeria police station >> February police station on the 7th on the 7th of February ruary, 2021, >> 27th of February.

[00:18:33]>> And when they arrived at Valyria, they introduced themselves and they were accompanied by two officers from Valeria police station to go to the cell where Dani was held.

[00:18:55]And when they arrived at the cell, they asked that we hear that you've got a phone on you. Produce that phone number and from the blankets and the mat that was allocated to Mr. Andi, they then found that cell phone.

[00:19:22]number.

[00:19:28]Now, as a person that visited the cells and you were would I be correct that on the day amongst other people like you've already stated you were working with Sergeant Mudau That is correct.

[00:20:33]Now for the sake of completeness, Sergeant Mudau has testified in this proceedings in this honorable court.

[00:20:51]Now, as a person that was working as a CSC assistant on the day, did you or are you one of the persons that accompanied Sergeant Maba and Muhammadan's cell phone where a cell phone was I mean to the cell where a cell phone was allegedly retrieved from his cell.

[00:21:27]Oh no.

[00:21:43]And like I've already alluded to that Sergeant Muda who has testified in this court and I must be fair to you. She also denied that she is one of the persons that accompanied Sergeant Maba and Sergeant Moani to the cells where allegedly a phone was retrieved from the cell of Mantans.

[00:22:26]And if we look >> just noted that ma'am for >> I want to hear >> for for the sake of the record the record does not uh note body movements you need to be vocal about your answers. Please.

[00:22:59]Yes.

[00:23:19]And now if we look at the SAPS-15 the original the first document that I handed over to you uh like I've said Sergeant Mudau was the CSC commander and then she also did inspections sell inspections with you according to your evidence. Right.

[00:23:46]And then Yes.

[00:24:05]Now if we look at the SAPS 15 uh just beneath your your name entry serial number 05 serial uh serial number 06 there's a constable SF Mabila who also was a CSC assistant. Do you recall working with that officer during your shift?

[00:24:42]Yes, he was.

[00:24:49]And after that, for completeness sake, ma'am, from entry 7 to 12, those are the people that were not working within the CSC or in the cell complex. Would I be correct?

[00:25:10]That's correct.

[00:25:20]Now, ma'am, this story of and I'll I'll say the story this story of Mr. having a cell phone in the cells on the 2nd of February. 7th 7th of February 2021. Do you know anything about it?

[00:25:53]I know nothing about 2021 and in your experience and having the same scenario that I've just explained to you, police officers arriving at the police station on information that a suspect is in possession of a cell phone. Let's take this scenario. If indeed a suspect had a phone on him and it's retrieved by investigating officers in the presence of local police officers in the cells, what is the procedure for retrieving that cell phone before it even leaves the venerial SAPS?

[00:27:01]Number two, proceed.

[00:27:24]If the phone was found, it should have been booked in the SAP 13 as an exhibit.

[00:28:06]If if that be the case and after the booking in of this item in in the uh SAP P3.

[00:28:18]It must also be noted in the OB book and out.

[00:28:43]>> Yeah. If the the item is found and is booked in the SAP 13 and if it's to be moved taken away from the station, it must be booked out in the same SAP 13 book.

[00:29:05]No, >> it must be written in. Yes, it must be booked out in the OB.

[00:29:36]Okay. And ma'am, you are in possession of an occurrence book right in front of you for the 7th. I'll give you whatever time you need to look into that book to determine whether or not the same procedure that we say especially pertaining to the OB because we we are not in possession of the SAP 13 register whether such a a a an entry is made about a cell phone being obtained from a suspect especially Mr. on the 7th of February, 2021.

[00:30:40]I'm done.

[00:30:42]>> Can you identify such an entry?

[00:30:50]No entry.

[00:31:05]February 2021 as the court pleases my lord. Thank you ma'am. Those are the aspects that I wanted you to clarify for the honorable court. Thanks for making time my lord.

[00:31:21]Thank you so much.

[00:31:43]Okay, that's it.

[00:31:45]>> Thank you, my lord. I have no questions.

[00:31:47]Thank you.

[00:31:47]>> No questions.

[00:31:50]>> No questions.

[00:31:52]>> Any questions?

[00:31:53]>> My lord, do we do have questions for this?

[00:31:58]Sergeant, >> ma'am, um can you tell the court what is the difference between a cell visit as well as a cell inspection?

[00:32:23]inspection.

[00:32:31]Cell inspection is when we go to the cells and the detees are then searched.

[00:32:57]more condition.

[00:33:00]>> And to check whether the cells are in good condition.

[00:33:16]Sell visited is when members of the church the church office >> they go to the cells >> to check how many detainees in the are in the cells >> and whether there are any complaints.

[00:33:37]from any of them.

[00:33:57]So ma'am, can you tell the court? Sorry, Sergeant, can you tell the court on the 7th of February 2021, did you and Sergeant Maw conduct a cell visit or a cell inspection?

[00:34:10]>> 7 February 2021.

[00:34:18]cell visit.

[00:34:20]>> Myself and Mau did the cell visit.

[00:34:42]Okay. And then during the sale um visit, will you be able to see a phone that is concealed under blankets?

[00:35:00]No.

[00:35:15]and tell the court what exactly happens during a cell inspection. How many members are involved during a cell inspection? Cell inspection inspection.

[00:35:32]inspection if need be that the cells be visited members of the police officers even those stationed at the same station and even if they are not stationed there they may be they may be called upon to do that inspection In your experience, have you ever been involved in a sale inspection?

[00:36:32]No.

[00:36:43]And then in your line of duty, have you ever heard of any items that were recovered during a self inspection?

[00:37:04]No.

[00:37:16]For what people's are inspections done for what people's are inspections conducted inspection inspection Uh cell inspections is do is been done to to check the condition of the cells and if necessary the the searching of the detainees is also done during the inspection.

[00:38:15]and and and during the search, what will be the police looking for exactly?

[00:38:36]to check whether the detainees have any unneeded uh things in the in their possession.

[00:38:47]For example, cigarettes.

[00:39:09]And then just take me now to Valeria police station on that SCP 15 document. Who was the cell guard of the date in question?

[00:39:32]There's no cell cut on this document.

[00:39:47]Who is responsible for for the cells?

[00:40:03]All of us who are at this church office has that responsibility.

[00:40:17]Who was giving keys to the cells?

[00:40:22]church office.

[00:40:23]>> They were at the church office.

[00:40:26]>> They were kept there.

[00:40:30]>> So from that document, you cannot tell who was having the physical key.

[00:40:50]We do not have the keys in our possessions at all times. We keep them in a locker at the church office.

[00:41:16]from the charge office to the cell. What is the distance?

[00:41:31]just at the back of the church. The the cells are at the back of the church.

[00:41:46]So are you telling this call that when you are all at the CSC, the cells are at the back of the CSC with no police official in attendance at the cells.

[00:42:11]charge office at Valeria Police Station. We do not have a permanent sale.

[00:42:28]office.

[00:42:43]Can you confirm that in Valeria at Valoria you do an hourly sale visit?

[00:42:49]Correct.

[00:42:56]Yes, I do.

[00:43:06]And then if someone was to come to this court and say at Valeria police station there were nothing like that. What would be your comment?

[00:43:18]visit.

[00:43:28]>> No, I'll argue with him. It is or there are such things.

[00:43:48]Accuse number two told this court that the only place or prison where he was visited by members and asked if he had any complaints, it only happened at Ramo China prison as well as Himur. Nothing like that happened at Valeria police station. What would be your comment?

[00:44:41]Do you are you still with the issue? of cell visit. That's correct. Yes.

[00:44:51]I'll argue with him because at Valeria we do an hourly cell visit.

[00:45:21]Did you personally during your sale vis number two if he has any complaints?

[00:45:40]Oh, what?

[00:45:41]>> No.

[00:46:09]on that day. I did not ask.

[00:46:16]>> I want you to go to that OB book now for the 7th of February, 2021.

[00:46:21]>> 7th February, 2021.

[00:46:24]>> Yeah. Are you on that page?

[00:46:25]>> Yes.

[00:46:28]>> Okay.

[00:46:31]>> Any visit any hour?

[00:46:37]>> Yes. Did ask him if he's got any complaints.

[00:46:50]Yes, he did.

[00:47:01]So that was done in your presence.

[00:47:07]Yes.

[00:47:10]Did he report any complaint to you?

[00:47:16]No.

[00:47:19]>> See, we are talking about accuse number two. Do you see him? Number two.

[00:47:31]>> Yes, I see.

[00:47:42]on the other side. Are you able to see him?

[00:48:01]And then look at him again.

[00:48:08]Is that how you know him from the time he was at the house?

[00:48:19]Yes.

[00:48:27]And then in terms of the appearance >> face space >> face this is very unfair questioning and procedure. We are now conducting a doc identification. The last time the witness saw Mr. Antanzi was in 2020.

[00:48:50]People grow up, features change. I don't know how Mr. Tanzi looked in 2020, nor do I. My learned colleague, my this procedure now is very precarious because we are now doing a doc identification via this witness expos 5 years, six years later. My goodness.

[00:49:17]>> Yes, sir. My I just want the witness to comment on how the accused person looked like at the time he was at the cells from the 2nd of July to the 7th of February 2021 only.

[00:49:31]My lord, we we we we are now going on to the sea on on a fishing trolling expedition. What will the relevance of this demon?

[00:50:13]Yes, Mr. I I will I will go through this point in a different way. I will show the witness an exhibit and then I will invite her to comment on it.

[00:50:25]>> What type of exhibit? Um it's a photo album um prepared.

[00:50:31]Uh it is photo that was downloaded from the cell phone of act number two that was done by warrant officer DD4B.

[00:50:43]>> Yeah let's hear Mr. Ram what you say >> I don't know what the purpose of of this is that's the first relevance. Secondly, my lord, this exhibit uh DD4B, Mr. Andi says the photos are his, but during the downloading it changed the date. So the dates that are displayed in the metadata here are not the dates when the photos were actually taken. So that will also be taking us nowhere. My lord, I don't know really what what what this exercise is all about in relation particularly to this witness. She never took any photos. She does not know any photos of Mr. Antanim Man. The people that have testified about these photos weren't offic How is this witness going to assist the identification or nonidentification of Mr. Tanzi in relation particularly to the narrow aspect from which she's here to assist the court?

[00:51:44]>> Yeah. Okay. The question is disallowed because the witness has already said he recognizes Mr. Nanzi and he knows him.

[00:51:54]That's sufficient.

[00:51:57]>> May I proceed my >> Yes.

[00:51:59]>> Thank you.

[00:52:01]Can you just interpret?

[00:52:03]>> Can you interpret the interction between the court as well as Okay.

[00:52:30]The question is this allowed my lord or disallowed.

[00:52:57]Ma'am, do you know where was the accused on the 24th of September 2020?

[00:53:05]24th September 2020.

[00:53:10]No.

[00:53:14]September 2020.

[00:53:17]>> Evidence before this court is that the accused on that day was at Valeria cells.

[00:53:33]not on duty.

[00:53:41]And in the know where the accused person was on the 12th of November 2020 November 2020.

[00:53:56]>> No, I do not know.

[00:54:02]Evidence before this court is that the accused on that day was at Valyria cells 12th November 22 I won't be able to can know whether he was there or not because we work we are working shifts and we change shifts November 2020.

[00:54:40]And then evidence before this court is that the only time the accused person left the cells of Valer when he has to appear at BB magistrate court as well as the court in Taban.

[00:55:06]not for your >> I do not know. I hear you.

[00:55:30]Now, can you take the cord inside the cells of Valyria? How do they look like?

[00:55:48]Back door and >> back door.

[00:55:51]>> Back door.

[00:55:52]>> The cells at Valeria has got the back door >> where the where there's entry for the detainees.

[00:56:17]And there's a door from the church office which we may use to get into the cells from the church office.

[00:56:36]Just take us inside the cell. The actual cell now.

[00:56:52]prisoners visit and in the cells there a place where the visitors are are kept.

[00:57:15]And at the back of the cells is a kitchen.

[00:57:23]>> Just tell the court inside the cell in which was housed. How does it look like?

[00:57:43]There's a first door to enter.

[00:57:52]And there's another door, the second one where the dete where he sleeps.

[00:58:04]And then toilet the shower.

[00:58:07]>> And there's a toilet and a shower.

[00:58:17]And then is there any source of lighting?

[00:58:24]>> Yes.

[00:58:28]>> And then the walls they painted.

[00:58:33]>> Yes.

[00:58:40]Do you recall the color of the walls in 2020?

[00:58:49]>> I cannot recall.

[00:58:58]And then the floor.

[00:59:01]>> How is the floor?

[00:59:05]is cement.

[00:59:12]>> And then where is the light situated inside the floor?

[00:59:29]where he sleeps there are lights and on top there's a entrance at the first entrance >> there's a where lights can get in thank you ma'am and Then they are waiting um child prisoners. Do you assist them to do laundry?

[01:00:14]No question.

[01:00:32]And then to do you ask them to trim their hair as well as beard?

[01:00:42]Oh >> no.

[01:00:49]And then during the time number two was at Valeria, did he receive any visits from members of the family or anyone?

[01:01:13]I do not know about the other days but whilst I was on duty there was he did not get any visit from outside and I I I want to be fair to you ma'am.

[01:01:41]Sergeant Muham testified in the court and said that a cell phone was recovered from accuse number two on the 7th of February 2021. He did not mention the time as well as whether it was during the morning shift or the evening shift.

[01:02:16]I hear you.

[01:02:32]And he further testified that after the recovery of the cell phone from accuse number two, he did not book the cell phone in any register number.

[01:02:55]Yes.

[01:03:07]What is important is that the cell phone was recovered and the cell phone belongs to accuse number two.

[01:03:16]>> Were you aware were you aware of this before I told you?

[01:03:18]>> No objection.

[01:03:21]Objection.

[01:03:23]That's a wrong it's a wrong supposition and I think it's because of technological inexitude.

[01:03:31]The state says what is important is that a cell phone was covered is putting that as a matter of fact that is according to according to muane a cell phone was covered and we're busy with that phone I mean with an investigation so the state should put it as a matter of fact that a phone was covered there hence I say it could be maybe inexactitude according to what told this is that the same for must cover. That is what this witness needs to be told not to put it as effect.

[01:04:31]What's your response doctor?

[01:04:34]>> My lord, I I do not understand the objection.

[01:04:38]However, I will refrain. Ma'am, according to the version of the state, a cell phone was recovered from number two.

[01:04:48]Number two and a case number 23 is indicated that the Samsung J5 it is his cell phone >> number Samsung J five.

[01:05:18]I hear that very precious mad that's an incorrect supposition. I've never personally myself or on behalf of Mr. Tanzi said a cell phone that was obtained by Muani at Valyria of which we don't know the chain of evidence belongs to Mr. Nani because that cell phone is nowhere in the registers to show the >> point is physically does it belong to Mr. and dancing >> physically.

[01:05:56]>> This says the same.

[01:05:57]>> No, no, physically according to you.

[01:06:00]>> Which cell phone?

[01:06:02]>> The one he says it was recovered. Does it?

[01:06:06]>> Let's put it like this. Has it ever belonged to Mr. Nanzi?

[01:06:09]>> I don't know. The one that was obtained from >> I don't know the one that from >> doctor. They say they don't know where the phone is which >> my my lord I will >> was allegedly in the in the area.

[01:06:26]>> I will find that part of the record where we we get all this.

[01:06:41]>> Okay. On page before we aend my lord 15 April 2024.

[01:06:48]>> Yeah.

[01:06:48]>> Was cross examination of mui >> by >> by advocate. It says advocate but we know it's Mr. >> Right.

[01:07:01]Uh let me start on line number three.

[01:07:09]So Mr. Advocate Ramsey. So it is issues of chain of custody. This documentation that records who handled the phone caught. Yes. Yes. Advocate Ram when court you are right. It is your client's phone. That is all I want to know that the very one he says he found there.

[01:07:27]Advocate. Yes. But not in Val. The J5 and then interven. Yeah. Fine. Advocate.

[01:07:34]The Samsung J5 that was downloaded. It is my client's phone. We can join my Lord.