Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders - 05/11/26

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[00:00:00]WTN Newslink. I'm Theresa Tomio from Catholic Connection. One American passenger returning from the cruise ship stricken by a deadly haunt virus outbreak is now testing positive. A statement from the Department of Health and Human Services says one of the 17 Americans will be transported to the Nebraska bioontainment unit but does not show any symptoms. Six confirmed cases and three deaths have been linked to the outbreak. And Pope Leo is thanking the residents of the Canary Islands for showing hospitality to the passengers from the MV Humdas during the Regina Chelli address yesterday. The Holy Father adding that he's looking forward to seeing them next month during his visit to Spain. The Pope will spend the final two days of his apostolic voyage to Spain in the Canary Islands. For more news with the Catholic perspective, visit EWTN.com.

[00:00:47]I'm Teresa Tomio and Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders starts now.

[00:00:56]What's stopping you from becoming a Catholic?

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[00:01:12]>> What's stopping?

[00:01:13]>> Why do I need to confess my sins to a priest?

[00:01:15]>> What's stopping you?

[00:01:17]>> This is Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:01:22]on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network. Hey >> everybody, welcome again to Call to Communion here on EWTN. We are live on this Monday afternoon. Glad to be chatting with you and uh hopefully you can give us a call if you have a question about the Catholic faith.

[00:01:38]Something you just don't understand, especially for those of you who are not Catholic. We really want to hear from you at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

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[00:02:17]Pedro Keelles, our producer. Matt Kabinsky handling phone screening. Ace McKay is on social media checking things out there. I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David Anders.

[00:02:26]>> Tom, how are you today?

[00:02:27]>> I'm great. How was your weekend?

[00:02:29]>> It's pretty good.

[00:02:30]>> Did you do something uh groovy for uh Mother's Day? I bet you did.

[00:02:33]>> Uh well, you know, actually, one of my one of my sons who's an out oftowner was in town and um my wife wanted to monopolize him and and and I was like, I'm I'm jealous. I don't. She's like, "It's Mother's Day. I get to speak all the time with him that I want to spend."

[00:02:49]>> That's right. Good for her. We're going to lead off with a question we received over the weekend on the EWTN listener comment line.

[00:02:57]>> Hello, my name is Barbara. I need to know if Jesus had biological brothers and sisters. Thank you.

[00:03:07]>> Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate the question. No, no. He he he may have had step siblings if St. Joseph had children from a previous marriage, which there are some ancient Christian traditions that suggest that.

[00:03:21]>> Okay.

[00:03:21]>> He also uh had cousins that may very well have been referred to as brethren, brothers and sisters, because that's a kind of a broad term that can cover a lot of family relations.

[00:03:33]>> Okay? But the blessed virgin Mary was a virgin before, during, and after her birth of Jesus. And so she never had another child other than Christ. And St. Joseph, of course, was his foster father, not his biological father. So he would not have had blood siblings. All right. Thanks so much uh for your call over the weekend on the EWTN listener comment line. On Friday's program, we got a text from Jay, but we ran out of show before we could get to Jay. Here's that text that he sent to us. You've described love, Dr. Andrew, as being made up of two things. Wishing the good of others and wanting to be in union with them. Can you elaborate on what it means to want to be in union with others?

[00:04:15]>> Yeah, exactly. Well, if you think about it, there's a lot of ways that you can be in union with somebody. So, um, you know, I I don't know if you ever saw the um, uh, the Batman movie, The Dark Knight.

[00:04:28]>> Oh, yeah. where where at the beginning of the film, the Joker has hired a whole bunch of henchmen to rob a bank. And he set it up such that as each one completes his task, the next one in line kills him. Wow.

[00:04:41]>> So that there's fewer and fewer henchmen, each with the promise that there'll be more for them to share at the end, >> not realizing that, you know, ultimately the Joker is the last man standing and he walks away with the whole stack, you know. Well, he he all had he had all these guys in union with respect to the aim of knocking over the bank, but it certainly wasn't a benevolent union that regarded the welfare of one another, right? Each was in, you know, was into it for his own purposes, right?

[00:05:09]>> So, you can you can get people in union around robbing a bank. You can get them in union around say a political cause.

[00:05:15]You could get two people in union around a game of tennis. I mean, I had a a friend one time with whom I used to regularly play tennis and we were fairly evenly matched at tennis and he recommended we play raetball one day, which I love raetball and I discovered that we were not at all evenly matched in raetball and he stood in one place and knocked the ball over the place and I wasted myself running back and forth in the field and you know the I forgot was it 15 points or whatever it was it was 152 153 and I said okay we're going to be in union about tennis not about raetball but that's not the kind of union that we're talking about in charity, right? Uh you know, the the union of charity is one where you where you you are in union regarding one another's mutual well-being, right? And you're you're in union in some genuine good, right? A genuine good that's transcendent to the human person and really elevating to the human person.

[00:06:06]>> Um so I mean it's, you know, when you when you love your family, I mean this is a classic case, right? I mean, you you want to spend time together, but you want to spend time together not because you want to get something out of them, like the Joker and his henchmen.

[00:06:20]>> Um, but because you you you genuinely value them as ends and not means, right?

[00:06:25]That's what we're talking about.

[00:06:26]>> All right. Very good. Thanks, uh, Jay for your text. Here's the other one that came in on Friday that we couldn't get to. This one says, "Dr. Anders, as a former Protestant yourself, do you have any suggestions on how to handle situations with a Protestant friend in a charitable way when he hassles me about me being a Catholic?

[00:06:47]Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. So, uh, I per f first of all, I don't take that stuff seriously at all. Right. Right. I mean, if somebody hassle, I mean, I'm I'm so comfortable in my Catholicism um that I don't it doesn't bother me, you know, it just don't bother me. I mean, I I I I feel I kind of pity the guy for his his the narrowness of his vision, right?

[00:07:11]>> And uh nor do I have any kind of compulsion to feel like I need to procilitize him and get him to think like me, right? And uh so you know, I mean, my inclination would be to brush it off or to respond with humor and to, you know, to say radically absurd things or or just to just flat out agree with everything that he says. You're idolatrous. That's right. Here we are.

[00:07:34]Idols are us, you know. I mean, just not take the bait, you know, just not take the bait.

[00:07:39]>> Now, um you know, if if he's open to genuine dialogue, which I doubt, which I doubt.

[00:07:45]>> Yeah. Um, and you can be patient and wait for that, you know. Um, then there are some questions that I would ask a Protestant and I would never let the Protestant set the agenda for the conversation because they always want to argue from their exesus of the Bible.

[00:08:02]And so I want to take the conversation one step more foundational and raise the question about, well, why do you think exesus of the Bible is the way to adjudicate these questions? Right?

[00:08:13]Where'd you get that idea from? Yeah, >> the Bible itself doesn't give that to you. And I would I would really start to go after the doctrine of solos scripture because at the end of the day, I mean, everything within Protestantism is grounded in that one key idea that the Bible is the rule of faith for the church and it's not the rule of faith for the church and that ought to be called into question. Every other conversation is kind of useless, sort of odios until you get the question of how do you even know what the Christian faith is out on the table. Thanks so much for your text. In a moment, we'll be talking with Mary in Illinois. Also, Noah, first time caller from Bloomington, Illinois. Dean is in Winchester, Massachusetts. Lines open for you at 833288 EWTN. Stay with us.

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[00:09:26]This is a digital moment with Sandra McDev. Did you know if you want to understand God, Exodus 34 is a great place to start? Exodus 34 6 to7 list 13 attributes of God. Among the list, he is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in both love and faithfulness.

[00:09:49]He is merciful down all generations. God forgives iniquity, transgression, and sin, intentional or not. He is also a God of justice, punishing sin. We are made in God's image and likeness. These attributes of compassion, forgiveness, and faithfulness should be ours to follow. Also, when someone asks what our God is like, read Exodus 34 6 to7 to them. I'm Sandra McDev for EWTN radio.

[00:10:30]It's called Communion with Dr. David Andrews here on EWTN radio. Our phone number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

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[00:11:07]Start now. Let the intercession and witness of the saints draw you closer to God. It's available at EWTN.com/daily.

[00:11:17]Again, EWTN.com.

[00:11:22]How about that? And if you're ready now, let's go to the phones at 833288 EWTN, beginning with Mary in Illinois, watching us on EWTN television. Hello, Mary. What's on your mind today?

[00:11:34]>> I have a question. A friend of mine, this happened at the funeral of her husband. She's not Catholic, but her husband was Catholic. So at the funeral, she was listening to the music and she said it was just absolutely beautiful and she was just in this church just a couple of times with him. So at the funeral, she was looking up at the ceiling just listening and enjoying the music and she saw a vision of her husband and he was dressed in a white and he was looking sideways and he had a smile on his face like he was looking down at his family or something. And you know when everybody's at a funeral they're crying and I mean for this to happen to her what is this? Is this a special? Was this a special goodbye to her or what was it? He was very very religious. He was a very giving person.

[00:12:33]He gave to everything and he never wanted nobody to know what he gave. It was always it was always an anonymous.

[00:12:43]So it's Isn't this something?

[00:12:46]>> Yeah. Thanks. That's a fascinating story and I really appreciate the call. So it sounds like he was a very charitable man. And at the end of the day in the Catholic tradition, the the the the most important criterion for going to heaven is that we have charity, that we have the love of God in our hearts, and we love neighbor and and love God above all things. And so it's entirely possible the man is in heaven. And it's certainly possible that God could allow a vision of her husband in glory to inspire this woman in faith or to come to the church.

[00:13:17]I mean, all that is possible. certainly plausible and if she decided that she wanted to get closer to God or closer to the church in consequence, I would regard that as a good outcome. Um, but of course, there's no way for me to know whether the vision was something that was of supernatural origin or something that was of human origin. I I can't assess that. There's I don't think any human could assess that. And I think the more important question is what is she going to do with that? Right? I mean, sure, >> even if it was an imaginative vision that came from her own subconscious, >> you know, you could still prompt her to virtuous action. It could still move her to do a good thing. From my point of view, it doesn't really matter for me to try to adjudicate was this supernatural or not. The really important question is what is she going to do about it?

[00:14:04]>> Absolutely. Mary, thanks so much for your phone call today. That opens up a line for you right now at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:14:17]It is Call to Communion with Dr. David Andrews on this Monday afternoon here on EWTN. Let's go to Noah now. Noah is a first-time caller from Bloomington, Illinois, listening on the Great Catholic Spirit Radio. Hey there, Noah.

[00:14:30]What's on your mind today?

[00:14:32]>> Hello. Uh my question was uh pertaining to I just wanted to know what the Catholic view is on how the church fathers at because I know there was a lot of there were you know a couple hundred years between the death of Christ and you know the original council of Nika. How did they decide what matters of faith did they use to decide how which gospels fit within the apostolic tradition and which ones to discard? I know there were others like floating around at the time. I just want to know >> sure >> what that kind of was like for them and what the Catholic view on that is.

[00:15:07]>> Yeah, I appreciate that. So, one thing that's important to remember is that there was a rule of faith um present in the church through oral tradition that predates the canonization of the gospels. Um I mean St. Paul when he writes the book of first Corinthians uh and so he's he's writing sacred scripture. He's not aware of the fact that he's writing sacred scripture. He's just from his point of view, he's just writing a letter to the church in Corinth. Um he references an earlier oral tradition that for him is authoritative. He says the tradition that I receive from the Lord I hand on to you. Namely, and he gives out the elements of the liturgy and the charurrima.

[00:15:47]>> Same thing with respect to the doctrine of Christ's death and resurrection.

[00:15:50]Right? So these are things that that St. Paul received from sacred tradition orally handed on to him and he regards them as authoritative. uh he also acknowledges unonymity or catholicity as a criterion.

[00:16:03]And this is like as Paul is composing texts that will eventually become the New Testament. Um in 1 Corinthians 11, he says if if anyone wants to be contentious or has another practice, know that we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God. So he's he's already pointing to the idea of of ecclesial consensus as a as a sort of binding norm for lurggical behavior. Um the book of acts which is probably you know much later in composition than St. Paul's epistles but you know and scholars debate when it happened looks back on the apostolic age um as one where there is conflict but there was also a mechanism for resolving conflict. The council of Jerusalem resolves a theological conflict and is understood that its decisions are binding on a universal church. Um so so there are there is a gospel I mean there's a there's a sort of definitive body of content there are criterion of orthodoxy before there is a new testament and the new testament actually gives witness to those as something that predate the new testament. So one of the criterion that early Christians used to determine the canonicity of gospels was do they conform to that apostolic charurrima.

[00:17:18]Right? If they if they are teaching things that are radically discontinuous with the public teaching of the church well then that's problematic. Um and so the the term rule of faith used in the second century refers u not to an authoritative teaching body or text. It refers to the content of the apostolic charurrima that was public knowledge.

[00:17:44]And so they point to you know the quote unquote rule of faith uh which is more or less equivalent to a kind of incipient creed. Um and you know it's got to agree with that. Then the doctrine of apostolic authority of apostolic succession is articulated very early um in the in very very early second century and throughout the second century St. Irenaeus in his against heresies for example will say that it's necessary for all churches to agree with the verdict of the church of Rome because of the the dignity of its founders namely St. Peter and St. Paul.

[00:18:22]Um and so the criterion of apostolic tradition, the criterion of apostolic authority through apostolic succession.

[00:18:29]Um and then another one is ecclesiastical use. And this sort of goes to the universality of the thing.

[00:18:36]So there were there were texts that circulated in Christian antiquity that were revered in some places and not others. So an example would be you've probably heard of the Gospel of Thomas.

[00:18:47]That's not a New Testament book. Um and it was popular in Syria but not in Jerusalem >> and not in France and not in Rome and not in Egypt. Right? So um it didn't make it in. It didn't have it didn't have universality as one of its notes.

[00:19:04]Um then of course the the at least the perception that there was apostolic authorship behind it. Um and you know modern scholars sometimes doubt the claim of apostolic authorship. They of the gospels. They don't necessarily think that St. John the Apostle was the person that put pen to paper, you know, at the moment of the original autograph.

[00:19:23]Um, but they're not adverse to the idea, some at least are not adverse to the idea that they may represent a school of thought that goes back to an original apostle. But so, you know, apostolic authorship, agreement with the rule of faith, um, ecclesiastical use, agreement with the rule of faith as articulated by churches with apostolic succession. All of these were criteria. um in the in the process of canonization the texts of the New Testament St. Paul's letters were the first to be written. The gospels were written later. Um but the four gospels Matthew, Mark and Luke, um seem to have coalesed into the form of a canon of the Bible >> uh earliest, right? And so you find references to the four, you know, as if they are a single literary collection.

[00:20:09]Second Peter, which is possibly the latest text in the New Testament to be written, refers to the letters of St. Paul again as a collection and uses the word scripture to describe them.

[00:20:23]>> Um but uh but the evidence suggests that probably the four gospels were the first. Um now if you want some secondary literature on this, I can give you a partisan book and a nonpartisan book.

[00:20:35]The partisan book is by Henry Graham.

[00:20:37]It's called Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church. The nonpartisan more sort of university press academic text is Bruce Mezer's book, The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance.

[00:20:50]>> Well, there you go. No. Is that helpful for you?

[00:20:53]>> That was incredibly helpful and more.

[00:20:56]Thank you so much for that.

[00:20:57]>> Oh, you're welcome. Appreciate your phone call from Bloomington. It is called to Communion here on EWTN. Hey, we're just getting started. 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:21:11]Dean is listening to us in Winchester, Massachusetts on SiriusXM channel 130.

[00:21:17]Hey there, Dean. What's on your mind today?

[00:21:20]>> Hey Mr. Price, Dr. Andrews, uh, thank you for taking my call.

[00:21:23]>> Sure.

[00:21:24]>> Hope you guys are doing well today.

[00:21:26]Uh, I had a question regarding the relationship between the father and the holy spirit. Uh like we know through scripture that um you know Jesus is the word of God. Uh and he was always considered the son of God even prior to the uh incarnation um of being born as Jesus. uh kind of feel like the Holy Spirit gets a little shortchanged uh in so much as you know what's that relation um if Jesus uh just by being the word of God binds all things and holds all things together. I kind of always thought of the relationship of the Holy Spirit as being the love of God. But uh I I don't know if you could just speak on that. He's not obviously the son of God, or is he in another way? Or is this perhaps something that'll be um uh you know uh unfolded at a later date? And just wondering what the church's position and what you guys think is the position or the relationship between uh God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

[00:22:38]>> Sure. So the church's teaching on the doctrine of the trinity is that the the father is the source the the the principle of the blessed trinity and the spirit and the son proceed from the father. Now procession is not the same thing as creation.

[00:22:59]Um so uh you know I'm trying to think of I can give you an example. Oh here's a good example. So think about the relationship between the axioms of a geometric proof and its conclusion through a you know series of arguments.

[00:23:14]There is no temporal relationship there, right? The the conclusion necessarily and eternally follows from the axioms, but the axioms are logically prior, right? They're not temporally prior.

[00:23:27]>> Yeah.

[00:23:27]>> And they have within them implicitly all of the elements of the conclusion, but they have to be worked out, so to speak.

[00:23:34]Now, that's a, you know, God is not an axiom >> and and the spirit and the sun are not conclusions of a demonstrative argument.

[00:23:41]So I'm I'm just trying to come up with sort of word pictures here to draw an analogy where you might understand how procession and creation are different concepts. Um we designate the mode of percept of procession being different from the sun and the spirit. Uh with respect to the sun, we talk about the sun being eternally generated. Uh with respect to the spirit, theologians have made up a word that essentially means to proceed after the manner of the spirit. And the fancy word is spiration. And you're like, what the heck does spiration mean? It means to proceed after the manner of the spirit, right? It is a procession. And of course in the Latin church, we confess that the that the holy spirit proceeds from the father and the son.

[00:24:24]>> The the the St. Augustine suggested another metaphor and this is just a metaphor, right? But it is a metaphor that's current. Um so uh with respect to the sun, the sun is described as the word in the Bible. So imagine uh word being synonymous with concept and imagine an eternal intellect conceiving of itself.

[00:24:53]>> And that's that is a that is a conceivable. You can hold that thought in your mind, you know. Now the the you you can see it at a glance that the the conception of oneself in one's intellect is not something ontologically distinct from one's intellect.

[00:25:11]And yet you can still kind of perceive a relationship of primacy and pro and and procession in there because there's the thinking intellect >> from which a word or a concept of itself proceeds >> and it is in fact the very same intellect. The concept being conceived is the intellect doing the conceiving.

[00:25:32]Right.

[00:25:33]>> Yeah. So that's think of that relationship and then and then the with the with the addition that they both actually are persons and that's different from a human concept and the love between father and the son which is also eternal is also a person and that's the and that's the holy spirit. Um you know I don't know that we would say that the spirit gets what do you put like short shrift or something that description. Um uh I mean there's a kind of mystery there to be sure >> and it is the second person not the third who becomes incarnate in the person Jesus Christ. Um but the three persons are integral and eternal and essential to the being of the blessed trinity and and model for us a kind of set of perfectly harmonious communitarian relations of which love is the defining feature. And so you know why do we need to know all this stuff?

[00:26:27]Right? Well, at the end of the day, it it highlights at foregrounds that at the highest level of metaphysics before anything else was, there's love. Amen to that. Dean, thanks so much uh for your phone call today. In a moment, Donna in PMPO Beach, Florida, Mark in Texas, lines are still open for you at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:26:55]The adoration sodality of the poor clairees of perpetual adoration at the shrine of the most blessed sacrament in Hville, Alabama is a prayer group for ley priests and religious brothers and sisters to spiritually join in the nuns mission of adoring our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Members commit themselves to an hour of Eucharistic adoration on a monthly, weekly, or daily basis at a monstrance or tabernacle at the parish of their choice. Learn more about becoming a member at idore thee.com.

[00:27:26]This is a pro-life Minute with doctors Steven and Gracie Christie.

[00:27:31]Steve, here's a pro-choice argument which has never made any sense to me.

[00:27:36]That an embryo or fetus is unaware of its own destruction. So, abortion simply doesn't matter.

[00:27:43]>> Yeah, I hear that a lot. Awareness of harm has never been required to make an act morally wrong. Nor should it. A drunken woman, for example, passed out at a fraternity party might never know she was raped by three men. Does her lack of awareness somehow make the rape acceptable? Of course not. A morally wrong act is morally wrong whether or not it is observed or felt.

[00:28:03]>> You could say the same for a patient under anesthesia completely unaware of what might be happening to her body. We always treat such patients with the utmost respect and care despite their being totally unaware of their circumstances and their bodily integrity.

[00:28:18]>> Absolutely. For more on the culture of life, go to EWTN.com/prolife, spreading the good news of salvation.

[00:28:28]>> This is EWTN Radio. On the next Beacon of Truth, our Life in Christ series continues talking about the ascension.

[00:28:35]I'm Deacon Harold Burke Civers, and I invite you to join me for Beacon of Truth. I'm Deacon Harold Burke Civers.

[00:28:42]Join me for Beacon of Truth today at 400 p.m. Eastern. On the next Beacon of Truth, discussing more on what will be your legacy of faith.

[00:28:50]>> Now back to Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:29:00]>> Still time for your phone calls at 833288 EWTN for Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders. 8332883986.

[00:29:11]This week, let's celebrate EWTN radio affiliate, The Rock Catholic Radio.

[00:29:16]Three stations serving Cleveland and Northern Ohio. They have been on the air now for 11 years. Congratulations to Maryanne Matein, Mateen rather, and her team at The Rock from your friends here at EWTN radio. All right, let's go to Mark now in Texas listening on SiriusXM channel 130. Hey there, Mark. What's on your mind today?

[00:29:39]>> Yes, good afternoon. Can you guys hear me? Okay.

[00:29:41]>> Yeah, go right ahead, Mark.

[00:29:43]>> Yeah, Dr. Anders, I I got hit with a left hook the other day and it was from a a very good friend who's Southern Baptist and he's actually we've had some really fruitful conversations, if not argumentative, more, you know, getting through the bias and the indoctrination of course that he's been presented with. And he looked at me and he said something that just threw me for a loop. He said, "Can you help me understand, and again, this is a very devout man, why states in the United States that have the highest percentage of Catholics, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, California, and he went through three or four, there's Pennsylvania, I believe, why they have the most liberal proabortion laws." And it kind of threw me for a loop, and I thought, well, let me look it up. And I did. He's he was spot on. And second, my second question is if there are priests doing their jobs in the pulpits on Sundays in those states because it's not lost on me that 90% of the most proabortion states are states that have the highest percentage of Catholics. And I'll hang up and listen to what you have to say. Thank you very much.

[00:30:57]>> Yeah, I really appreciate the question.

[00:31:00]So, uh, I'll have a lot to say about this. One is it it's an interesting statistic.

[00:31:09]I don't I I think if your friend is using this polyimically and it sounds like he is then he is taking a statistic very much out of context and I think you have to evaluate religious traditions on many many many other criteria and place that thing within a larger context. I mean, as you were speaking and as I was reading a summary of your question beforehand, the thought that jumped in my head was that the Bible belt has the highest or some of the highest divorce rates in the country. I think Alaska actually has the highest divorce rate, but but the Bible belt, Alabama, my home state, um, which is overwhelmingly politically conservative and at least ideologically not favorable to divorce, uh, has, uh, has one of the highest divorce rates in the country. and it's not unrelated to the the the Southern Baptist fundamentalist culture that we inhabit.

[00:32:00]Now, I can make the case for that another time, right? Um well, it I I don't think I've ever brought that up as a as a as a debating point when talking with the Southern Baptist because I don't really think it's all that relevant to the question of whether their belief system is true or not.

[00:32:15]Right? I think there are sociological, demographic, cultural reasons for that that need to be brought into consideration in understanding divorce rates in Alabama the same way I would do if I were going to talk about abortion laws in in New England. Right? But I I mean I think in that particular case um you have to differentiate first of all when you look at say the political influence of Catholics between Catholics who go to mass and Catholics who don't.

[00:32:41]And this is well documented sociologically in the literature. Yeah.

[00:32:45]>> The divide between Catholics who go to mass and Catholics who don't is mammoth.

[00:32:49]It's mammoth. Right now I um I I have a a relative through marriage uh who is a very very famous Catholic sociologist who uh taught at some of the top flight Catholic institutions academic institutions in the country. And he's he also is pretty much on the left hand side of the spectrum. and he spent his whole career basically documenting um the Catholic descent, right? That's where he studied. He looked at all the Catholics that don't believe Catholic teaching, right? And um and you know, naturally, like if you don't go to mass and you don't believe Catholic teaching, well, duh.

[00:33:35]>> Yeah. And what you know what they're missing is that that Catholicism in the Northeast is largely the the uh the result of waves of Italian and Irish immigration um from the 19th and early 20th centuries uh of people who were generally poor. Uh you know they were in the labor movement. um they would have been uh absolutely associated with the political parties that favored those demographics, you know, um and uh and they saw themselves and they very much were, you know, political outsiders from the kind of blueb blood Republican Protestantism that ran the show. And so they got aligned with certain, you know, political parties and political ideologies and and and you become disengaged from the church, but you're not going to jettison the identity, right? Because you know, you have an Italian last name or you have an Irish last name and this has been part of your family's identity forever, right? And uh and you see yourself very much as a party, right? Kind of like the way things go down in Northern Ireland. I mean, and I remember asking years ago when I was kind of young and stupid and naive and just sort of getting my head wrapped around the whole Northern Ireland thing. I I met an Irish guy. He who grew up in a neighborhood. He said, "You know, in my neighborhood, if you walk down the street, you could get hurled up against a a brick wall and they would demand to know whether you were Protestant or a Catholic. And if you gave the wrong answer, they would beat you up." And I remember like a stupid idiot, I said, "Well, you know what? If you're neither, what if you're an atheist?" He says, "They don't care.

[00:35:13]They'll ask you if you're a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist." right now. That that doesn't make sense to a Southern Baptist, right?

[00:35:20]>> Yeah.

[00:35:21]>> That makes plenty of sense in in certain cultural contexts where, you know, a person is Catholic because the grandparents are Catholic, the great-grandparents are Catholic, they came over, you know, through Ellis Island or whatever, but they don't go to mass, >> right? They don't believe it, right? You know, but you know, if they if but if you go to the hospital, they're going to check the box for Catholic. You know, I mean, you know, >> Veto Corleó was Catholic.

[00:35:44]>> Yeah. You know, I mean, if you see my point. All right. Now, if you look at massgoing Catholics, >> you get a completely different perspective. You get a completely different perspective, right? Uh, politically, culturally, divorce rates, all of it, you know, abortion, contraception, it's all different when you have people who actually go to mass and who practice the faith. Okay.

[00:36:06]>> Now, interestingly, uh, you know, where is the demographic Catholic growth in the United States? It's in the Bible belt. Yep.

[00:36:16]>> Right. And uh I'm I mean I'm looking around at Alabama politics and I'm like, >> "Yeah, we're really tilting to the left down here."

[00:36:26]>> So, you know, not exactly. Exactly. So, so I really, you know, I think all that is these are all factors. Okay. Um uh Yeah. Yeah. That's what I have to say. I too have a family member by marriage and this fellow uh he would consider himself a Catholic and yet he is not he's not walked into a Catholic church in at least >> 10 or 15 years and he's >> very much on the left side but if a pollster >> which is what this goes to if a pollster were to come to him he would say oh yeah I'm a I'm a Catholic >> sure sure yeah and my relative that I talked about right I mean who who would dissent on pretty much the entire history of magisterial teaching on anything to do with ethics other than say, you know, the kind of um you know, pro- labor, you know, kind of issues, right? Sure.

[00:37:19]>> Um would um uh uh would absolutely check the box as Catholics kind of on a poll, right?

[00:37:25]>> Mark, is that helpful for you?

[00:37:30]>> Mark, is that helpful for you?

[00:37:31]>> Mark, >> yes and no.

[00:37:34]>> Okay. What did I not get to?

[00:37:36]>> Um I I saw where you were going with the divorce thing in Alabama and and that I understand context. I do. It just makes me wonder are priests letting the inmates run the asylum in some of these areas?

[00:37:54]>> Oh yeah, sure.

[00:37:58]>> Yeah. I mean, so if you want me >> Yeah. You and I are both ex Protestants, so we understand how Protestant parishes with the tithing and let's grow and let's get people signed up and let's build this business. But >> yeah, >> I'm hoping that not I'm hoping that's not creeping into our church today.

[00:38:16]>> No, no, no, no, no. Okay. I I I get the point. Okay. So, if you want me to talk about sort of like Catholic bureaucracy and how that translates into philosophy of ministry and preaching, you that's a that's a whole different can of worms, right? And uh and there there are things in in Catholic ecclesial culture that I would definitely criticize. And I think this is nothing made this more apparent than the early 2000s in Boston when we had the revelations about the clergy sex abuse scandal. And it turned out that it wasn't just a few bad apples. It was actually a system a systemic problem that was facilitated by a secretive hierarchy that wanted to protect itself from criticism and accountability.

[00:38:56]Right. And and so you know the the sin of Catholics um to which we are always prone is of course this sin of clericalism and it leads to all kinds of uh of dysfunction in Catholic ministry.

[00:39:10]Now uh everything that you've just said about you know the way Protestant church organization sometimes happens is also true. It comes with different signs of dysfunction. So, I mean, when when I was in seminary in the Protestant church, you know, you you had to pay your own way. I mean, Catholic Catholic vocations don't pay their own way. The Modas pays you. You pay your own way. Um, and of course, when you get out, uh, you know, you're not dependent on some bishop to ordain you or not ordain you or kick you out. You just get a degree in hand. You get an MD in hand. And then if you're in a denomination, you know, you try to get ordained in your denomination or you can go start your own or you can go plant a church in a storefront or, you know, you you audition for a job and and in consequence it it facilitates a kind of entrepreneurial uh spirit among again among seminary grads and they compete on talent, right?

[00:40:01]And that's really what's up for for competition, right? You compete on talent. Are you a good preacher? You good organizer? And like any good venture capitalist, what happens is, you know, hundred of these guys leave seminary and a lot of them are going to wash out and and and you know, bust it and fail. But you'll have, you know, three or four handful, 10, 15 guys that are extraordinarily talented and they can they can draw a crowd. Um, and the next thing you know, you know, money follows success and then they have a mega church on their hands, right? That that is definitely a model of ministry.

[00:40:29]And so when you look at demographically what's happening in Protestantism, mainline Protestantism is just withering on the vine. And uh I've read the data on this and I can't remember the numbers but the exact numbers but it's huge. The percentage of practicing Protestants in the country today that actually go to megaurches is just enormous. I mean megaurches are a minority in terms of the actual number of churches still but obviously but in terms of the the percentage of population that worships in one of those church is just mammoth.

[00:40:59]It's mammoth. Right. Um, now you know that comes with obviously you have the the lights and the glitter and the fancy preaching and the you know the very good communication style and sometimes you have really active programming. Um, but uh but there are there's also a huge spiritual cost to pay there. I mean you get into the whole cult of personality thing. Um, and then what we now know if we've been at this long enough is that there's been so many crash and burn scandals that have come out of the megaurch industry. Um, and the dynamics are different because it's not, you know, it's not an it's not an ecclesial hierarchy that's sustained by, you know, the theology of apostolic succession.

[00:41:36]It's one that's sustained by by talent and glitz. Um, but it still is prone to certain kind of um manipulation and abuse and and dehumanizing and so forth.

[00:41:46]So, I mean, each model has its problems.

[00:41:49]As Catholics, we just need to be aware of our ecclesiology and be continually at work on reforming it from the inside so that we don't commit these sins.

[00:41:58]Mark, thanks so much uh for your phone call. Call to Communion here on EWTN.

[00:42:02]Tomorrow night on Mother Angelica Live Classics, Mother reflects on what life in heaven will be like and the relationships that the faithful will enjoy. There should be a wonderful program tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m.

[00:42:14]Eastern on EWTN TV and radio. the great Mother Angelica live classics. And you know what? They they really are. When I listen to one of these programs w with Mother, it's like she recorded last week.

[00:42:27]>> Oh yeah.

[00:42:27]>> It's absolutely incredible. Let's go to Donna now in PMPO Beach listening on the EWTN app. Hey there, Donna. What's on your mind today?

[00:42:35]>> Um good afternoon Dr. David Anders. When it comes to the order of the priesthood, what is the difference between Austinian, Benedicting, Dominican, Franciscan, and Jesuit?

[00:42:51]>> Okay, sure. I can do that.

[00:42:53]>> Okay. So, the the the the first major division you need to be aware of in consecrated life is not between individual orders. It's between types of of of consecrated life. And they basically fall into two types. There are monastic orders and this is classically Benedictan and all the offshoots of Benedictans like cistersians and trappists. Okay. But the classic Benedict and and that is men and women who are pledged to a particular monastery um to give their lives in and in and in in prayer and work. Right? And so although monasteries and and and benedict and convents have been involved in and continue to be involved in service to their community, their primary vocation is to the life of prayer and work internal to the monastery. And the monastery is conceived of as a kind of school for the training of the soul to get to heaven.

[00:43:53]Right? Right. And so if you ever read the Benedicting Rule, it's it's basically a rule on how do you how do you live in community in such a way as to encourage virtue and to discourage vice, right? And and and to spend time in prayer and sacramental life and so forth. That's and and you're and you're and part of the vow is you take a vow of stability. So you you're vowed to that monastery and you're going to stay there. You're going to spend your life there, right? Um and that was that's the form of monasticism that was most prominent uh basically for the first thousand years of the church. Now in the 12th century and 13th century you see another form of religious life emerge and what happened and this is really this is a kind of uniquely western phenomenon when you had the growth of towns and cities in a money economy and and European economics developed to the point where people actually could live as beggars right because I mean you can't live as a beggar in a hunter gatherer culture right I mean you know what are you going to stand out there with a hat and wait for people to put fish in I mean, I don't, you know, and um and and then you had others that began to be uncomfortable with things like, you know, the disparity of incomes, you know, wealth inequality and things like that and and a kind of and conscious of Jesus's teaching about the dangers of wealth. People that wanted to live a life of voluntary poverty and uh and to preach Christ's example of the poor and the care of the poor. And they they weren't doing this in the context of a monastery. They were just doing it, right? And it became controversial because some of these people had heterodox ideas and they would go out on street corners and preach their strange ideas and it would be disruptive. And so the church was kind of opposed to that until there was a young man by the name of Francis of course who lived in the town of Aisi where Tom has recently visited.

[00:45:42]>> Yes.

[00:45:42]>> And uh and Francis did this thing right.

[00:45:45]He he sort of stripped off his clothes and and you know went and lived a mendicant life and and uh and and did some preaching and and then he was so charismatic that he gathered followers around him and uh and he he made a trip to Rome uh to ask Pope Innocent III to bless his way of life and Innocent Third took one look at him and said, "Oh, you're one of those. No way, bud. You know, get get out of here." And uh and then according to the story and third went home, had went to bed, had a dream that la that night that this strange little man from Aisi was going to rebuild the church. And so he calls Francis back in and says, "Okay, I I you know, I'm I I reig. I'm I'm going to let you guys do it, but I have a few restrictions. I want you to take the tauncher, which is the sign of monastic life, and you're part of the church.

[00:46:34]You're in an ecclesial order." um and um Francis became a deacon so he had right to preach and uh and so thus what's called um the mendican orders were authorized by the church now you you you can't understand how different the mendican orders were from the monastic orders but the monastic orders by this time were you know 800 years old and they were revered and those monasteries because of their stability some of them had acquired great wealth and property you had huge lands that they farmed and this kind of Now they were still of benefit to the community because they were doing things like irrigating those draining swamps and irrigating those lands and inventing methods of agriculture and actually capitalism. Um but again their primary focus was not going out and preaching the gospel or tending to the poor. Francis didn't care a fig about about agriculture. He wanted to go hug lepers and live the example of Christ in the streets and preach the gospel to people. And so it was a very different form of life. Um, and so the Franciscan order, really the first of the mendic orders, was this call to travel the world, preaching the gospel and living in apostolic poverty to bring the message of Christ to as many people as possible. Again, with under under the umbrella of the church and its authority.

[00:47:50]>> Um, uh, a young man who was an Augustinian canon, a the Augustine rule was another monastic rule similar to the Benedicting rule, but it was a rule for the common life of priests.

[00:48:04]Canons were priests that served in a cathedral church and lived in community under a rule. Uh he was an augustinian canon in Spain had to accompany his bishop through France also in the 12th century and he encountered uh the presence of the Albaginsian heresy which was a heretical sect that was very popular in southern France and he was convicted by that and said somebody needs to come preach Catholic truth to these people. And so he got permission and he very much like Francis he became a mendicant. Someone who lived apostolic poverty gathered a group of followers and created a religious order that was based um very specifically on on preaching Catholic orthodoxy in the face of heresy and thus was born the Dominican order. Today, if you meet Franciscans, they still follow the spirit of their father Francis. And they have this very sort of carefree, happygolucky, you know, we're going to go preach the gospel and live with the poor and hug everybody kind of demeanor.

[00:49:01]And the Dominicans are the kind of, you know, intellectual types who are going to go to school and get big fancy degrees and they're very heavily oriented towards presenting Catholic truth in an intellectual context. Um, the Tistic Institute has a podcast you might be interested in. It's extremely Dominican. It's always good theology lectures, usually on college campuses trying to present Catholic truth in the face of a hostile secular world. Um, the Jesuits uh in the 16th century, so you know, 400 years later, um, St. Ignatius of Lyola was a young man. He was a soldier. Um, he basically had his leg blown off. I mean blown to bits and he was recuperating in a castle and he had nothing else to do with his time. So he starts reading the lives of the saints including Francis and Dominic and he says why can't I do that and he had been a soldier and so he started a religious order another mendican order um with a very kind of militaristic not violent not not physical violence but a kind of spiritual warfare we're going to take on the enemies of God kind of mentality and a rigorous form of spiritual training to equip these soldiers for Christ that became the spiritual exercises and that's a popular form of spiritual exercise and and and retreats that that are replayed throughout the Catholic world today with the special directive that he wanted his order to be directly under the the the rule of the pope. And so the the pledge was we will go anywhere in the world the pope wants to send us. And so the Jesuits became the great missionaries to over there wherever the over there is. You know, they were going to go to China. They were going to go to South America. They were going to go to the Irakcoy Indians in in North America. you know, any place where there were unreached peoples and there was danger to be faced for Christ, the Jesuits were going to be there. And they were they were the great missionaries. Along the way, they discovered they were also really good at building schools. And that one of the best ways into the heart of the local community was to give a really good education. And today, Jesuit schools are, you know, some of the top educational institutions throughout the world. And they continue to be. So that's a big part of their charism. So someone who's discerning religious life says, "I'd like to live a life of poverty, chastity, obedience, and community." That's great. The next question they need to ask is, "What what kind of religious life do I live? Am I am I someone who's just given to the life of prayer and contemplation? Maybe I'll go become a Benedictan or a Carthusian or a Trappist or a Cistersian. Um, am I someone who wants to, you know, go work directly with the poor? Maybe I want to be a Franciscan.

[00:51:31]Maybe I want to be a professor of theology or engage in apologetics in a in a very sort of forward-looking way.

[00:51:37]I'll go become a Dominican. Um, you know, maybe I want to be a great scholar um and teach in a university and model Catholic intellectual life and go wherever the order wants to send me.

[00:51:47]I'll become a Jesuit, you know. So, this is a kind of a brief introduction to Catholic religious or not so brief introduction to Catholic religious life.

[00:51:55]>> Appreciate your call, Donna. Thanks so much for it. It is called to communion here on EWTN. Let's go to Marian in El Paso, Texas, listening on her Alexa device. Hey Marian, we got about uh two minutes left. What's on your mind today?

[00:52:08]>> Hi, thanks for taking my call and everything you guys do. I'm a Catholic and I just had a really quick question because I will be attending a Jewish funeral in a temple. And as a Catholic, I didn't know how to properly partake or not partake in uh a Jewish >> Yeah. Thanks. So, I don't think there's anything at a Jewish funeral that a Catholic could not do. Uh, I mean, Jews are definitely not idolattors. That's a huge thing with their tradition. So, you're not going to be asked to, you know, worship some idol or some foreign god. Um, there are no sacraments in which you would be called to participate. I mean, it's essentially a prayer service and and including prayers for the repose of the soul of the dead.

[00:52:51]I mean, this is this is actually where the church got that idea from was from the Jewish funeral practices. And so, I'm not personally aware of anything uh in a Jewish service that you that you couldn't do as a as a Catholic. And of course, we have the example of some of our recent popes like John Paul II who did not hesitate to pray in synagogues.

[00:53:09]>> Yeah. I remember uh Adrianne and I going to a funeral at a um synagogue in Cincinnati many years ago and I don't remember anything that was uh you know unusual that we needed to do except to you know pray obviously pray for the deceased that was certainly nothing unusual about that. Is that helpful for you Marian?

[00:53:31]>> Yes very much so. Thanks so much. Thank you.

[00:53:33]>> Appreciate hearing from you. appreciate everybody who has uh checked in today, whether it's uh via texting, the phone calls, uh we have a lot of questions that we have received and we're going to try to uh tackle a bunch of those on future editions of Call to Communion.

[00:53:47]So, be sure to check us out. We do this program Monday through Friday at 2 p.m.

[00:53:51]Eastern here on EWTN. And if you'd like to hear today's show again, you can do that. Pedro is going to post it for you.

[00:53:58]It'll be up in about two or three hours.

[00:54:01]Go to EWTN.com/listen.

[00:54:05]Ewtn.com/listen.

[00:54:08]Then click on Call to Communion and you're good to go. Hey, Dr. David Anders. Thank you, my friend.

[00:54:13]>> Thank you, Tom.

[00:54:14]>> Keep it right here on EWTN. We do it for you live Monday through Friday.

[00:54:18]Actually, 24 hours a day. Solid Catholic content that you can depend on. Coming up next on most of these stations, it's EWTN Open Line with Father John Tragillio. Be sure to stay tuned for that as well. On behalf of everybody here at the network, I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David Andrews. Thanks for joining us. See you tomorrow. God bless.

[00:54:55]May is the month dedicated to the blessed mother. Pope St. John Paul II said, "Today we begin the month dedicated to our lady, a favorite of popular devotion. In accord with the long-standing tradition of devotion, parishes and families continue to make the month of May a Marian