Why Was Anna Kepner's Accused Killer Allowed To Walk Free?

Added: 2026-06-02

[00:00:01]This is Hidden Tiller's Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dreke.

[00:00:07]>> And let's go over to another big case we've been following. For months, almost everything about the case against the teenager accused of killing Anna Kemper on the Carnival ship was locked away, a sealed file, a juvenile proceeding. Very little anyone outside that courtroom could actually see. Then the seal came off, a detention hearing transcript unsealed, and all at once the government's evidence is out in the open. Footage tracking his movements step by step, a phone found smashed in a trash bin, DNA testing, an autopsy. And there's a turn that has people fired up even with all of it laid out, even now that he's charged as an adult and facing life, a judge let him walk out and stay free until trial. Even with more evidence against him than ever before.

[00:00:57]Oh, and by the way, there's minors apparently at the house where he's staying, and the judge is still like, I need to talk to somebody about this. Is this appropriate? I don't know. So, how much is this evidence really worth? And how does a case like this really get built? Joining me to discuss, Jennifer Coffindaffer, retired FBI special agent, and Robin Dreke, retired FBI special agent and chief of the counterintelligence behavioral analysis program.

[00:01:20]Um there's a lot to get to in this this new drop of information that has come out on this case.

[00:01:27]Um not just the fact that his apparently it looks like he smashed her phone and dropped it into a garbage can, but there's also a bigger piece to this equation that that I think ties a lot of it together in my opinion in terms of motive. It's also been revealed that she had had a an encounter or relationship, if you will, with a consensual one with another gentleman on the ship Uh uh prior to being violated by her stepbrother.

[00:02:04]And so they looked into him. They checked his DNA, too, to make sure that and and he's checked out. He had nothing to do with this, it looks like, obviously.

[00:02:12]But I'm wondering I am wondering when we're trying to go to what made this 16-year-old, you know, predator to be predator in in actual real life snapped the way he did. And I'm thinking that might be the answer right there.

[00:02:27]Jealousy, anger, rage. It would it would it would explain all of it, quite honestly. He discovered she was with someone that wasn't him, and she was never going to be with him to begin with. But I'm wondering does that answer our question of what put this nutcase over the edge?

[00:02:44]>> Yeah, I totally agree with you. And and I'll tell you what, there's just you never want to say the word always, let's go with 99%.

[00:02:53]See what Robin says, but >> [snorts] >> there's always a proximal event.

[00:02:58]There's always a proximal event. You're you're going you're going whether it's the Crumbley case, what made him snap. I mean, his dog died. His best friend moved away. Those are the proximal events that moved him. Uh in this case, jealousy, rage, all of that I think pushed him over the brink. There's always the last, you know, little bit of push that somebody gets that wants to do this anyway. And then they're really pissed off, and they go through with it.

[00:03:26]That's what I think.

[00:03:27]>> Yeah, yeah, especially with someone like this, I can imagine you have a degree and that's of the accused Timothy of fantasization going on about and the anticipation, oh, finally going on a cruise, they're putting her in my room, and you have this build-up in your mind of what you expect it to be, and then you find out she's with someone else on that cruise in which you had that. And that would like Jen said, it's a pinnacle event or a you know, triggering event for me and that was cuz he was on an arc. He was definitely arcing on on these behaviors towards her and it's when that arc is escalating up and up and up and then you have that kind of fantasy coming in because your parents put you in the same room with her and I know people yesterday were commenting on well, they had to put her with her then with her because she's the adult and yeah, but you can always not stay in that room. Um but either way that I my conjecture is that kid was fantasizing that I finally have her to myself or in the same room together. I'll kick the little brother out and I'll have my I'll we'll have this romantic and whatever was creepy crap is going through his head and then he finds out she's with someone else and he snapped.

[00:04:37]>> When I read that that was my oh, that explains everything.

[00:04:41]>> There's always something, you know, because we when you see these things past is prologue not just with individuals but with cases. That you know, first time you see anything in most cases like all right, who's got the life insurance policy? Where where's the jilted lover? Where's the child custody issues? Where where's the fantasization from some nutter that you know, has you know, targeting someone in their lives and that's escalating and and there's always an event that puts them over that edge.

[00:05:04]All you got to do is look for it.

[00:05:05]>> Let me ask you this. I mean this is a very I mean there's plenty of crazy horrible adults that think this way too but it is a very immature very adolescent way of thinking very reactionary very non you know, grown up brain here that that processes thoughts like this and he's being tried as an adult and he chose that path.

[00:05:28]Should should he be being tried as an adult? I mean I I look I I hope they lock him away and throw away the key.

[00:05:34]People like this even if you're 16 and you do some [ __ ] like this there's no saving you.

[00:05:39]But at at the same point I don't know.

[00:05:43]He this is a very juvenile way of thinking. He's doing a very childish I don't mean they're very adult horrible things. They're they're they're not adult. They're they're they're monstrous. They're predator like is what they are.

[00:05:55]But but again, if we try to understand the way of thinking and the way he's operating here, this doesn't sound like an adult. This sounds like a kid. Like a kid that has body parts that are functioning like an adult and a brain that's functioning like a predator. Um I don't know. What are your thoughts, Jen?

[00:06:13]>> Well, you know, this case was one of these from the minute this happened. I was on it. Why? Because I worked in the Virgin Islands and one of the cases I had when when I was there was a homicide on the cruise. And so it was just all kind of brought all that back. It just was on this case. And when I found out it was a juvenile, there as I [snorts] had explained uh for probably the past 9 months or so, there's the Juvenile Delinquency Act. And the only reason I'm familiar with that is working gangs where you have all these juveniles.

[00:06:45]And the federal system does not charge juveniles. There's there's a a couple of very rare cases on Indian reservations.

[00:06:55]That's it. So, you knew one of two things was going to happen in the juvenile delinquency court proceeding.

[00:07:01]And that was either A, they had to move him up to an adult, which only happens in the absolute most egregious of violent cases, >> Yeah.

[00:07:10]>> I use this case. Or B, he's going to be turned over to the locals in Miami-Dade or or Broward, whichever one it was. I can't remember.

[00:07:18]>> Court was. I thought it was Miami-Dade.

[00:07:20]Anyway, and they were going to handle it. And the bureau and the AUSA's office decided, "No, we're taking this one.

[00:07:28]This is absolutely too egregious not to take." So, that's the reason that it's there. So, I guess to your answer, a huge court proceeding took place to decide all of this with all sides weighing in all the facts known and a judge said listen we got to get this guy tried as an adult. So I defer to that decision. I'm not going to though I I was pretty surprised.

[00:07:54]>> Yeah. Yeah, so and and I just researched you know potential upsides again I'm going to try to channel my inner Bob Mata and on this one.

[00:08:04]Um >> [laughter] >> choice is unusual and for being defense driven but so here's some upsides by by waving his right to be tried as a juvenile right to a jury trial under this and also guarantees more of a right or more opportunities for plea deals as well broader constitutional protections as an adult potential for faster resolution and better plea deals strategic sentencing and public perception factors is what is what they're saying on this and but the downside is sentencing guidelines are much higher as an adult than as a juvenile. So they really rolled the dice on it but for my my guess you know and this is what what both Eric and Bob say all the time is I think it increases their ability to get a plea deal if this evidence is so stacked against them and cuz remember this is cuz I know we haven't talked about the parents yet I'm hoping not jumping ahead on our our our topics on that Tony but remember it looks like the parents don't want to be dragged into this whatsoever. They distance himself from them and so if you if you don't want to be involved you don't want and you're trying to distance your crazy family from the craziness of the of this of this homicidal accused homicidal maniac.

[00:09:23]The first thing you want to do is have him plead out and so if this increases the ability to plead out quicker it makes sense.

[00:09:31]>> That's kind of how I've been reading it.

[00:09:33]>> Yeah. [laughter] Let me I I said a long way to It's I took a long way for you to say the same thing.

[00:09:37]>> No, I mean I I I agree. I mean I kind of I feel like that kind of feels like where I don't know. I mean everybody's got their motivating but I don't know. I mean I that that's it's been a weird thing because obviously there was there was signs that home life wasn't great.

[00:09:50]There was warning signs there.

[00:09:53]That seemed to have been ignored. At least that's my conjecture and I think the conjecture of a lot of people. The parents have not been charged with anything. I'm not saying they had anything to do with the murder or anything like that but you go oh what was the recipe that made this kid and now this kid acted out and despite the warnings. Now nobody wants to be responsible for not seeing the warning signs. It's kind of what I'm saying.

[00:10:12]And maybe that's just it at the end of the day. There's nothing to prosecute or there's nothing criminal that went on with the parents other than just irrespo- irresponsible parenting maybe.

[00:10:19]I don't know or just not being aware, not being as in tune with your kids as you should be. That's about 95% of parents.

[00:10:26]>> Avoiding the consequences.

[00:10:28]>> So you know, it's I think it's a hard thing to litigate there but it's it's just it's another observation where you go well this could have been prevented. He walked around apparently after the fact with her cell phone, busted it, dumped it into a garbage can on the cruise ship. Somebody who worked on the cruise ship found it. It'd been pinging the system's Wi-Fi the whole time so it showed exactly where it was.

[00:10:52]When you show that when when we see here a sign of a cover up even more than the the the life jackets that were jammed on top of her body underneath the bed, even more than him blocking his brother from getting into the room, even more than him walking by the scene as as everybody's standing around this door and they realize it's a crime scene. What's happened in this room and he just casually takes you know a jaunt past so he can get to the lunch time buffet. Who knows where he was going but the fact that that we we see this this attempted cover up that's going on beyond all of that. Is that what does that tell us about the case in terms of helping or hurting his defense? I mean, it surely shows that there was a a consciousness of what he did in the initial lines of I have no memory, no recollection of what happened kind of goes out the window. Now that we see he went and tried to hide her cellular device after the fact.

[00:11:50]>> Totally agree. Consciousness of guilt, that's what it shows here. And it shows a cover-up. It shows it's baloney that he didn't know what he did. And it shows that he knew what he did was wrong. So you have that all together. No, it doesn't help the case. Again, he's going to be tried as an adult, but will, like we saw in the detention hearing, [snorts] age be sort of in the back of the mind and at least be mentioned by the the judge. Now remember it'll be a different judge. There's a US Magistrate Judge, which is the first step in any federal case. They handle the detention hearings, probable cause hearings if they >> [clears throat] >> occur and bond hearings. Then after that, it will be demanded remanded to a district judge that will actually decide the case. Let's hope we don't get one as liberal. I mean, I it's egregious egregious that somebody who is being tried as an adult, who has committed a r a p e and and a murder uh allegedly is walking. You would never see that happen. I am stunned at the decision.

[00:12:57]And I know he went by there's only two A lot of people were trying to understand this. There's only two things that can be considered by a judge. Is he a flight risk and is he a danger to the community?

[00:13:09]And the judge basically said, "Well, look, this whole time he's been out on bond before this, he hasn't done anything wrong."

[00:13:16]That is also a very very bad answer in my opinion because what happens is as court continues, as he figures out he's going to go to prison for many, many years, that's when an event will happen and he's going to be out.

[00:13:32]>> Yeah, so then the desperation kicks in.

[00:13:34]It's not there yet.

[00:13:35]>> This whole thing's helped everything everything's happening is helping the parents. Everything. So So imagine this, my conjecture hat, you know, playing reverse synoptics. So you put him in jail in a general population, what's a 16-year-old going to do?

[00:13:50]To people that they can't control. And then those people And so those people now are going to be called on the witness stand, they're going to be called to testify. Meanwhile, if he's hiding out in his uncle's house, who's he talking to?

[00:14:01]>> Yeah.

[00:14:02]>> I think it's >> That's a good point.

[00:14:03]>> I think this entire thing is just covering for the parents.

[00:14:06]>> There's a lot of steering that's going on.

[00:14:08]>> in this house on 100%. And so as important as he is, because he's the one that took all the execution of this, he's now become a pawn of all the adults in this thing, I think, covering their asses as well.

[00:14:19]>> Everybody that doesn't want to account for their poor behavior. And again, I'm not saying that it was even criminal behavior of the parents or anything like that.

[00:14:25]>> They just didn't want to say something.

[00:14:26]>> it's it's it's accountability that everyone's hiding from, the accountability of of this being their kid, of of not being responsible enough to see the red flags when they were warned about it, allegedly. I mean, all that. I mean, granted, this is all our conjecture, this is all our opinion, yada yada yada. But yeah, I mean, it all seem I mean, it all seems to be stacking that way, without a doubt. I mean, and they don't have and and there's only certain levels levers that are able to be controlled by them. But at the same point, he is 16.

[00:14:54]>> Um one more thing on this.

[00:14:58]No danger to the to the public?

[00:15:01]It was a minor that he that that he is a minor. But the thing is, he's staying, apparently, that we've learned now. It's not just with the uncle that has the landscaping business that we all thought, okay, well, I guess, you know, the uncle all by himself with the landscape. No, it's an uncle with two kids in the house. And and that's part of the equation now, too. And the judge is still like, "I don't know. What could possibly go wrong here? Gee, I wonder."

[00:15:30]>> and that seemed to be his fetish as one of our great commentators you know, in the chat was saying his his fetish is this. Uh just and to Jen's point earlier too, I looked up the stat yesterday. The the probability of judge letting someone like this out on and to roam free after they're charged like this, I think it's like 15% of the time is the only time it happens. I mean extremely low.

[00:15:51]>> I mean are people looking at the and I'm wondering how I may ask you this one Jen we'll go to our next topic then.

[00:15:56]He looks like a child. I mean you've seen the pictures of him he looks like a kid. How much is that I mean how do you think that'll affect the jury on this if it doesn't get pled out?

[00:16:07]>> It's going to affect the jury because you're going to have moms in there that have issues with their kids.

[00:16:13]>> Yeah.

[00:16:14]>> That can't control their boys.

[00:16:16]Uh or girls whatever it may be but particularly boy in this case because he's a boy and you're going to have them thinking about oh my gosh, you know, and you're going to have empathy I think set in. I mean if women in if I'm the defense attorney, I want an entire panel of women.

[00:16:35]>> Moms, yeah.

[00:16:36]>> I want moms, I want young women, I want grandmas. I want the whole gamut and I don't want to see one guy.

[00:16:44]>> Yeah.

[00:16:44]>> That won't happen but that's what you're going to want because they're going to have an empathy they're going to look over Lenny. They're going to have him dressed up like a Pee-wee Herman in terms of like like young and >> Sitting on [laughter] cherry.

[00:16:58]>> And looking completely oblivious like he always does. I mean you're right he's a compelling figure for sympathy if you didn't know exactly what he did. And that's why it's I I'm agreeing with you Jen. I think it's in his best interest to have a jury trial.

[00:17:14]And but I my bet is it's going to get played out.

[00:17:19]>> I wouldn't doubt it.

[00:17:20]I wouldn't doubt it at all. The evidence is just so strong and they're going to fall on the sympathy of a judge that might say, "Listen, this kid needs another chance."

[00:17:32]>> And you know what? So far judges have been sympathetic towards him. So yeah, why not, right?

[00:17:37]>> Little Timmy. Little Timmy.

[00:17:40]Little Timmy wants to drive the boat.

[00:17:43]>> [laughter] >> Uh your your thoughts in the comments section on Substack and YouTube. We'd love for you to weigh in.

[00:17:49]>> Want more on this case and others? Then [music] press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Bruski and the Hidden Killers [music] Podcast.