The History of General Elections | You're Dead to Me

[00:00:01]Hello and welcome to a very special episode of You're Dead to Me, a history podcast for people who don't like history or at least people who forgot to learn any at school. My name is Greg Jenner. I am a public historian, author, and I'm the chief nerd on the BBC comedy show Horrible Histories. And if you've not heard this before, uh the podcast is basically a coalition government between the rival parties of fun and facts uh under my feeble leadership. Today we are taking a trip to the polling booths of Britain [music] in the 18th and early 19th centuries to chat generally about the general history of general elections hosted by me, Greg General. Sorry, Jenna. As ever, I am joined by two very special guests in history corner. She's an expert on 18th and 19th century [music] uh culture and political history, specializing in the history of elections, which is pretty handy. From the University of Nottingham is Dr. Hannah Nicholson. Hi Hannah, thanks for coming.

[00:00:49]>> Hi Greg, thanks for having me. How did you become a historian of politics?

[00:00:53]What's the uh the route in?

[00:00:55]>> So when I was uh at school, I really hated political history and my 18year-old self would be appalled that uh this is what I'm doing. But uh when I was doing my MA dissertation, I found a really great uh hand, which is sort of the modern day equivalent of what you get in your letter boxes when there's an election. And I just thought it was the coolest thing. And I needed to write more about it and find a way to to write more about it.

[00:01:18]>> Well, that's pretty awesome. In comedy corner, she is making a sensational return to the pod after a crash course in all things Jon of Arc. She's a classically trained actress, a classically unrestrained comedian.

[00:01:28]You've seen her on the Mash Report, 8 out of 10 Cats, loads of other stuff.

[00:01:31]And you may have seen her touring show, Lemon, which is wonderful. It is Katherine Bohart.

[00:01:35]>> Hello.

[00:01:36]>> Welcome back.

[00:01:37]>> Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I really enjoyed it last time.

[00:01:40]I learned loads.

[00:01:40]>> You did really well last time. You You got like nine out of 10 on the quiz. You were bossing it.

[00:01:44]>> I listen. I mean, I didn't know anything, but I surely was open to learning. Uh, >> that's the best way.

[00:01:50]>> Yeah, I I really enjoyed. I'm really glad to be here. Thank you for >> Normally, we ask you uh how you like history, but we know that you like history and that you studied it. So, I'm going to ask you a different question.

[00:02:00]>> What's your favorite kind of polling station?

[00:02:02]>> Ooh, I'm going to say classic. Like, I love a community center. I love an Irish polling center because you know everyone there. So, you like there's no sense of how's anyone going to vote. you know how they're voting.

[00:02:15]>> You've never seen anyone coming not not sure like there's not John from the village who's like oh you know >> no his wife will have told him like they he knows what [laughter] he's doing. No, I love an Irish polling station. I will absolutely say that. But I will say in my I know you said that you I studied history. I will say I largely studied social history and American political history. So I definitely avoided this particular topic and certainly this particular era to in every possible way.

[00:02:40]So I'm very excited to learn.

[00:02:41]>> Good. For the record, I love a primary school polling station. I just I just like democracy being accompanied by like mini beasts on the wall [laughter] and, you know, very small chairs. I find it very >> having to really squat to go to the L.

[00:02:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. And just sort of, you know, everything is sort of very beautifully pink and blue and tassled papers on the wall and everyone's done all the sort of coloring and you go, "Oh, yeah.

[00:03:03]Democracy."

[00:03:04]>> Yeah. In a very highly gendered school.

[00:03:07]I love it. [laughter] >> So, what do you know?

[00:03:12]>> [music] >> All right. Well, we begin the podcast as ever with the So, what do you know? And this is where I try and guess what you at home might know about the subject.

[00:03:22]Yeah, tricky, isn't it? You all know that elections decide who's in power, what political party is going to run the country. Um, but unless you did a very dry module in Alevel history, you probably don't know much about the history of elections. They have been around since medieval times and you obviously will know the story of 1918 and working-class men and some women getting the vote. You may have seen the the movie with Merryill Streep suffragettes. You may have heard of Emily and Pankurst, but we're talking about the 18th century which is not really part of our lexicon culturally.

[00:03:51]So I'm guessing it's probably Black Adder. That's what you've probably heard, isn't it? You've seen Black Adder and in your head you're thinking Baldrick MP bribery, corruption, foolishness, and idiocy. Well, maybe that's true and we're going to find out because certainly the 18th century is renowned for electoral corruption. But maybe that's not true. Today we're talking about the period of history active union 1707 is England, Wales, and Scotland joining up to become Great Britain. That's our start point and we're going up to 1832, which is the Great Reform Act. So, it's about 125 years, I think. Um, so Hannah, what is a general election and when do we start to see them in Britain? and what kind of political parties are we talking about?

[00:04:34]>> Okay, so a general election is when UK citizens vote on who will represent them and their local area in the House of Commons. As you said earlier, parliament was essentially a medieval institution and the practice of sending two elected representatives to parliament from each town and each shire in the country dates from about the 1290s. Uh but in terms of the period that we're talking about, uh the first British general election took place in 1708, a year after the act of union in 1707.

[00:05:04]>> So get a bit more of a background picture. From the early 1700s until 1911, a parliament sits for 7 years unless the monarch dies.

[00:05:13]>> That's intense.

[00:05:14]>> Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, they really commit, doesn't they?

[00:05:16]>> Wait a second. Unless the monarch dies.

[00:05:18]>> Yes. So if a monarch's like, "Oh, I've got the sniffles." And then boom, dead.

[00:05:21]Then they have to do a new parliament.

[00:05:22]They've got to have a new election.

[00:05:23]Seems like a bizarre choice given that the monarch's unelected to be like the elected representatives should go to the polls again because some random dude who's sorry in power because of a real god who definitely gave him the power.

[00:05:36][laughter] >> Here we go.

[00:05:37]>> has popped his clogs.

[00:05:39]>> All her clogs. I mean, you you know, Queen Anne died.

[00:05:41]>> I'm so sorry. You're right. I always forget how many women are in politics in the 1700s. Is it a wash with clunge? I'm sure it is. [laughter] >> Sorry. The queen could die. Queen Anne died and then they got George the first and he's the first Annavarian and then it's a lot of BS in fairness but there were lady queens.

[00:05:59]>> Lady queens or lady kings I suppose technically speaking.

[00:06:02]>> No, I liked lady queens. We're in Soho.

[00:06:04]You need to clarify. I got it.

[00:06:07]>> Um so it's every seven years as parliament and it's also in this period that we get a prime minister. Now I'm going to ask if you know the first ever prime minister. If you ever heard of this person, give us a guess. Give us your best political name from the 18th century. Oh, I don't have one. That makes me really uncomfortable. I'm like, all of mine are too way too late.

[00:06:27]>> All right.

[00:06:27]>> Does it begin with a P?

[00:06:28]>> Does it begin with a P?

[00:06:29]>> There is one that begins with a P.

[00:06:30]>> There is one beginning with a P, but that's later. So, >> then I'm at >> So, Robert Walpole >> wasn't even close. Not even [laughter] like I was No, not even close. There were no prime ministers before this, >> right? Okay, Hannah. So Robert Walpole essentially emerged as prime minister sort of partly as a result of a split in his party the wig party.

[00:06:50]>> Okay. So this split helped him to consolidate his power. Then later in 1721 he was appointed first lord of the treasury, chancellor of the exjecker and uh leader of the house of commons. So this essentially was him being prime minister but the term didn't really exist as an official title as we would use it today. And who was considered like top row of the house then until then?

[00:07:14]>> Well, prior to that you have privy counselors. So the whole role of parliament is to counsel and advise the king or the queen. But at this period in history, we've had a constitutional reform. That's fun, isn't it?

[00:07:25]>> In the 1680s, uh, which is the bringing in of the constitutional monarchy which we now have today. Now the crucial thing about Walpole, the reason he sort of steps up is that a king doesn't speak English. That's the main reason. What?

[00:07:38]>> George the first. He's What do you think he speaks?

[00:07:40]>> I don't [laughter] know.

[00:07:42]>> French. No.

[00:07:43]>> Oh, that would be nice. No, German.

[00:07:45]German. George the First is a Hannavarian. He's dropped into the role because he's a Protestant and they don't want a Catholic king. So, they go hunting through the family tree and they go way down the family tree, >> like way, way, way down it. And they find this random German bloke and go, "He'll be the king of England from Scotland and wherever."

[00:08:01]>> They drop him in and his name is George the First and he doesn't speak a word of English. They're so anti-atholic kings that they're like, "Call up George there. Go on. He doesn't get the German on the phone to him and we'll have George in."

[00:08:15]>> Yeah. He's the first king of the Georgian dynasty. He is a George and he doesn't speak in English. And there is this huge economic crisis called the South Sea bubble which is a sort of it's like you remember the dotcom bubble. You remember people went mad for like Napster and and sort of early Amazon websites and things like that and people crazily overinflated the value of internet stuff. It's a bit like that but in the 1720s.

[00:08:38]>> Okay. I mean those are basically as far ago as long ago to me. I'm looking at you like no >> you're a younger lady. [laughter] Yeah.

[00:08:44]I'm I'm an old man now. So I'm like hey you remember that thing that happened when you were tiny.

[00:08:50]>> No.

[00:08:50]>> All right. So there was a massive overinflation. The economy is in trouble. rather than advising the king as normally the privy council do suddenly there's an awful lot of admin to be done >> and you have a fellow called Robert Wall's like well I've I've got this >> and I mean he's in power for how many years Hannah >> uh 20 years >> I mean that's really impressive >> 20 years >> is he good >> uh he wasn't especially popular >> um [laughter] >> how did he stay in power then >> so largely as a result of getting rid of a large cabinet and sort of through the help of the power of the king and sort of popular patronage.

[00:09:26]>> Oh, okay.

[00:09:27]>> So, he sort of he sort of sneaks his way around, does he?

[00:09:29]>> Yeah. So, he was accused of bribery, corruption in his efforts to sort of keep clinging on to power.

[00:09:35]>> God, we'd never put up with that these days.

[00:09:37]>> No.

[00:09:37]>> And then his sort of um ambitions were said to be like rivaling the the power of the king. So, he wasn't altogether that popular.

[00:09:44]>> The other weird thing is prime minister is an insult.

[00:09:46]>> What?

[00:09:47]>> Yeah. So, his job was first lord of the treasury.

[00:09:50]>> Okay.

[00:09:50]>> That's his official title. And I think it's still on the letter box on Downing Street. I think official stationary I think of Downing Street might still be like First Lord the Treasury. Um >> and why is prime minister an insult?

[00:10:00]>> So it was used as sort of a term of abuse in the sense it had implied that an individual had risen wrongly above sort of others within the the royal circle.

[00:10:09]>> Wow.

[00:10:09]>> He's the prime minister. It's it's a bit like you know teachers pet.

[00:10:13]>> Teacher's pet.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah.

[00:10:14]>> I love that. That's great.

[00:10:16]>> Has anyone ever insulted you and you've sort of reclaimed it and gone, you know what? I'm embracing this. This is me now.

[00:10:20]>> Yeah. But I'm not sure your listeners want to hear about how I sometimes refer to myself as a like excitable dyke. You know what I mean? Like it's like that's not I'm not sure the BBC listeners are going to be like that's the same.

[00:10:30][laughter] >> Excitable dyke is a great name.

[00:10:32]>> Right.

[00:10:33]>> That would be your wrestling name.

[00:10:35]>> I think so. Yeah. Let's say wrestling >> in the blue corner [laughter] weighing in at not many pounds. The excitable dyke. So Robert Walpole is also given 10 Downing Street and it's a gift >> from whom?

[00:10:48]>> From the king. But he refuses it. He says, "No, not not having it. Don't want it." Uh, and he says instead, "It should be used to whoever holds the role." So, whoever has the job gets to sort of live in it for a bit.

[00:11:02]>> So, it's Walpole who essentially kind of goes, I don't want your house. It should be an official office for the prime minister.

[00:11:08]>> Basically, he's like, "No, no, I wouldn't take a house from the king.

[00:11:11]Obviously, I'll use it for 20 years."

[00:11:12]And then like whoever might be, it'll probably be me might [laughter] be able to use it. Oh, please. Okay, great. Uh, it's also at the time known as Five Downing Street.

[00:11:22]>> What?

[00:11:22]>> Yeah, they sort of rearranged the street numbers.

[00:11:24]>> What's with all the bombshells, lads?

[00:11:26]Five?

[00:11:27]>> Yeah. I mean, it's not as good, is it?

[00:11:28]Five Downing Street. It doesn't sound as good.

[00:11:29]>> Doesn't have the same ring to it. No.

[00:11:31]Five Downing Street sounds like a primary school, actually, though, that you say it.

[00:11:34]>> All right. Well, we need to get on to how people voted then. I mean, obviously, we've heard about Walpole claiming power, but how does electoral politics work? What defines who gets to vote? So the main people who couldn't vote in this era were women as you say also those under the age of 21 who were considered minors.

[00:11:50]>> Okay.

[00:11:50]>> But also whether you had the right to vote or not varied across the country.

[00:11:55]So according to what kind of constituency in which you lived in some constituencies especially those with large numbers of voters where a high proportion of the population could vote.

[00:12:04]There was a relatively high proportion of all adult men including certain members of the working classes such as laborers or unskilled craftsmen. But then in some other areas it was only those who owned their own homes who were able to vote. And also until 1829 Catholics were unable to vote. How is it that it changes constituency to constituency whether or not you can vote >> because there's about five different types of burough constituencies all with their own rules as to who could vote.

[00:12:32]>> Yeah. So you've got the counties that vote with a 40 shilling valuation of freehold land. Then you've got the freeman burers where people who have freeman status get to be granted by apprenticeship, purchase of marriage or the daughter marrying into a free man's family. Then you've got the Scott bursers. The vote goes to the household property owned by the occupiers. Uh then you've got the corporation burers. The vote went with membership of if you belong to a corporation. And then you got the burggage burers. And then my favorite one, Katherine, can you guess what a pot waloper burrow is?

[00:12:59]>> A pot waloper.

[00:13:00]>> A pot waloper.

[00:13:01]>> It sounds like that burr is high on life. [laughter] Uh pot waloper. I don't know. Okay. So, pot waloper or householder burers as they were also known enabled all householders who had a hearth where they could boil a pot and lived in the property to vote.

[00:13:16]>> Wow. So, it's just varying degrees of classism.

[00:13:20]>> Yeah.

[00:13:21]>> Okay. Sweet.

[00:13:21]>> And every area sort of got its own weird rules and it's all very strange and very confusing.

[00:13:26]>> Right. So, no women but as long as the men own a hearth where a pot will be boiled where they'll probably never boil it.

[00:13:32]>> Yes. then they can vote while she boils the pot. Give me a break. Okay.

[00:13:36]>> And if they've got a specific trade or if they belong to a certain corporation, they might get Yeah. So there's everywhere you go has got its own sort of little local customs and rules. If you were running some sort of despotic tyranny, and I'm not saying you are, Katherine, you seem very nice.

[00:13:49]>> What rules would you put in place to uh stop people you don't like from voting?

[00:13:53]For me, anyone who puts carrots in spaghetti bolognese instant >> exclusion. I can't I have just lost my vote in your >> Are you a carrot bolognese lady? Yeah, but I'm a vegetarian. What else are we putting in there?

[00:14:03]>> I'm sorry. I'm not standing for it.

[00:14:04]>> Okay. Well, uh I guess >> So, where are you drawing your line?

[00:14:06]That's what I'm saying.

[00:14:07]>> I guess I'm uh people who don't move down in the tube when it's clearly got space, those people should lose their vote instantly. Also, people who bring their dogs to workplaces and then don't >> want to share their dog with the other people who are at the workplace.

[00:14:21][laughter] It's like, I'm sorry, this is a public space, so your dog's public and I want to play with him.

[00:14:27]>> It's not your dog, it's an office dog now.

[00:14:28]>> It's an office dog now. communal dog.

[00:14:30]>> The dog and I will see you later.

[00:14:32]>> I think that's a pretty good mandate for power. If you put that in your manifesto, I think people would vote for >> Great.

[00:14:38]>> Definitely the dog thing. [laughter] >> Yeah, you pick up a lot of voters there.

[00:14:43]>> The reason you've got all these sort of weird little rules in place is to keep some people out from voting. Some people aren't allowed. Women certainly not because women can't be trusted to have opinions.

[00:14:51]>> You wouldn't know what time of the month they'd vote and fall on. Do you know what I mean? Well, sure. You couldn't be trusting them. Imagine, >> you know, the terrifying chaos of ladies with opinions who were hormonal.

[00:15:00]>> You'd need someone to wipe the floors.

[00:15:01]It'd be a nightmare. An absolute nightmare.

[00:15:04]>> But 1801, it's thought that about half a million people were allowed to vote, which is about 16% of adults. So, there is a relatively large electorate in terms of like people, but it's not a good number in terms of ratios.

[00:15:17]>> Is your vote public?

[00:15:19]>> Ah, well, let's get on to that.

[00:15:21]>> Sorry, I keep asking. No, that's that's good. Let's move on to it. It turns out I actually love old school elections.

[00:15:28]One of my like I didn't realize I had so many questions, but I'm really into this. [laughter] >> Great.

[00:15:32]>> It's cooler than people think.

[00:15:33]>> Yeah. It's more like an episode of Survivor than like Great. It's like you can vote, you can't vote. We'll need to know what your vote is.

[00:15:39]>> Exactly. You can vote as long as there's a dog in the office.

[00:15:41]>> Yeah.

[00:15:41]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Hannah, are people voting publicly?

[00:15:45]>> Yeah. So, until uh 1872, Secret Ballot Act, all votes uh were public. People generally got two votes each unless it was like a bi-election or something in which case you'd only get one vote.

[00:15:55]>> You get two votes. So you get to vote for two MPs.

[00:15:57]>> Two MPs because each constituency or most constituencies have two MPs each.

[00:16:03]>> Oh, >> I would vote for the same person twice.

[00:16:06]I really like Steve. [laughter] He's in both my votes.

[00:16:09]>> I feel like that would be a waste of your privilege, white man with your property. Um [laughter] but I >> we can't be trusted white men. Sorry.

[00:16:17]Let's talk I guess corruption. The Black Adder episode tells us that corruption was rife in elections. Can we talk about old serum? Because that is surely the thing that everyone who vaguely knows this story knows that particular case study. Old Serum is a sort of medieval village >> that's been abandoned.

[00:16:35]>> Yeah.

[00:16:35]>> And it's on a hill.

[00:16:36]>> Yeah. So it's a Wiltshire burough which essentially, as you say, was an abandoned village on a hill, but still sent two MPs to parliament despite the constituents only being a flock of sheep. [laughter] But there were technically 11 voters.

[00:16:49]>> They weren't the sheep.

[00:16:50]>> They weren't the sheep. Yeah.

[00:16:51]>> Flossy mossy. Yeah. So 11 voters.

[00:16:55]>> Mhm.

[00:16:56]>> Where do you think they lived?

[00:16:57]>> I'm going to guess it wasn't there.

[00:16:59]Yeah.

[00:17:00]>> I'm going to say it was at least bottom of the hill.

[00:17:03]>> No one. [laughter] >> Do they even live in Wiltshire?

[00:17:05]>> Some of them.

[00:17:06]>> Oh wow. Oh wow. Yeah. That's appalling.

[00:17:10][laughter] >> So do they have to go to a polling station in on the hill or do they just vote? Do they post in their vote?

[00:17:17]>> They did have to come back, didn't they?

[00:17:18]>> Yeah. So each >> the least they could do. I think >> each poll was only open in one place in the constituency. So everybody who would vote, no matter how far away you lived, would have to go to that one place and vote.

[00:17:29]>> All 11 of them.

[00:17:30]>> Wow.

[00:17:31]>> See, you know, you talk about dogs in the office, but sheep at polling stations. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:17:36]>> I think people would get on board with a corrupt democracy if there were more sheep involved. That's >> Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right.

[00:17:41]Or dogs, I think. But okay. How long did it go on with people voting there until anybody was like, "What the hell, dude?

[00:17:48]There's nobody living there."

[00:17:49]>> And so 1832.

[00:17:51]>> Yeah.

[00:17:51]>> What? From 1708.

[00:17:53]>> Yeah.

[00:17:54]>> Give me a break.

[00:17:55]>> The seat was so val Well, the two seats, the land was so valuable because it essentially gave you a guaranteed position in parliament. So the land was worth £700 in terms of agricultural land. In terms of like sheep land, 700 quid. It was sold for guess how much?

[00:18:09]>> I'm going to say like£2,100 three times.

[00:18:11]£60,000.

[00:18:13]>> What?

[00:18:13]>> Which at the time is >> bazillions?

[00:18:15]>> Yeah. Tens of millions. Yeah.

[00:18:17]>> Yeah. Bazillions is probably more technically right, but sure, Greg, [laughter] you can guess, too.

[00:18:20]>> And I'm right. Also, I believe Hannah, the property leases were temporarily lent to people's friends. [laughter] >> Oh my god.

[00:18:29]>> You could say, "Hey, uh, you technically own this for like this afternoon.

[00:18:34]>> Do you want to lend off my vote?"

[00:18:35]>> Yeah.

[00:18:36]>> Of course you could, cuz it's just like a pencil case or a cup of sugar. You just have a borrow of that. I mean we do it with Netflix accounts.

[00:18:42]>> Yeah. Totally totally the same.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah. So in some cases this did happen uh especially in constituencies more than burough elections. But you also got the threat of eviction. So if you didn't vote in the way that your landlord sort of expected if they had control of the constituency they could sort of throw you out of your house >> cuz that's obviously like coercive. Was it also like were there that's like um a threat but was there also positive incentive? Did people just pay people to vote certain ways?

[00:19:05]>> There could be. I mean, there's one MP famously who threw 500 guineies into the crowd.

[00:19:10]>> Yeah. As a sort of polite way of saying, "Vote for me."

[00:19:13]>> Yeah. Cool. So, bribery was rife.

[00:19:16]>> It wasn't bribery. It was just a gesture of goodwill.

[00:19:19]>> Oh, I'm sure. [laughter] >> See, he was treating the sort of the official term that they used.

[00:19:25]>> So, an electorate of sheep, that's good.

[00:19:27]Lending your vote to your friends, that's great. People living there but not actually living there. That's lovely. 11 voters.

[00:19:32]>> And I thought first pass the post was lovely.

[00:19:34]>> Yeah. There's also there's a story of the MP of Applebee in 1802. He has one voter and we looked into this story and uh and Hannah you basically came up with an interesting conclusion on it.

[00:19:46]>> I looked at the election of 1802 which is when he sort of claimed he wrote in a letter to his wife that only one voter selected him. So I looked and there's no election that took place in 1802 in in the constituency of Applebee which is where this this happened.

[00:20:01]>> Right. So what I think probably happened in this instance, often there was a nomination of uh the candidates. So people would just nominate who they wanted and if there were two candidates and no other people in the running.

[00:20:13]>> Okay.

[00:20:14]>> There was no election. They they'd got their two people they needed. Yeah.

[00:20:17]>> So I think the one voter who he's talking about in the letter is probably just one nominee.

[00:20:22]>> Wow. What a weird flex to your wife to [laughter] be like in a way it's bragging but in a way it's also like what a sad version of events.

[00:20:31]>> Darling, I won with 100% of the vote.

[00:20:33]>> Yeah, there was one bragging about.

[00:20:35]>> No, I that's why I can't quite figure out if he is or isn't. It's like a weird It's like he could have left that detail out.

[00:20:40]>> Hannah, it sounds like running for office that sounds quite expensive because there's bribery involved and there's you got to go and you've got to sort of presumably bribe a few people to vote for you and you've got to have your mates and you might have to buy the land.

[00:20:51]>> Elections were hugely expensive. So most of the money in most of the contest went on providing sort of food and drink for the voters. That's where a lot sort of the bulk of money was spent.

[00:21:00]>> Right. So you got to throw a bit of a party.

[00:21:02]>> Yeah. Essentially.

[00:21:03]>> And Catherine, >> I would prefer that if that was the case now to >> Okay. So I was going to say so >> to like negative campaigning or whatever they spend their or campaigning. I'm like if it was just like who puts on the best party, I would have what a great time for voters that would be. I mean obviously not but you >> it would be like a sort of taskmaster episode or something.

[00:21:18]>> Exactly. [laughter] How many people can you feed with this much money? Great.

[00:21:23]>> And also, I guess polling at the time, well, these days, polling is one day, isn't unless you do electoral votes where you send them in the post. Uh, but now we go for one day to vote in an election. Do you want to guess how long polling was open for in the 18th century?

[00:21:36]>> Well, okay. So, they had to be in situ to vote.

[00:21:41]>> So, I mean, but I mean, I hardly think people were coming like internationally to vote. So, let's assume they have to get across country. Uh, I'm guessing they travel by horse.

[00:21:52]>> Yeah. Cart. Yeah.

[00:21:53]>> Uh, I said all of that as if I was then going to be able to estimate how long it takes to get across the country by horse and cart. Uh, when actually I have no idea. I'm going to say logically people should have had the benefit of like two weeks.

[00:22:07]>> So, generally polling lasted a week, but in some case it could go on for sort of weeks at a time.

[00:22:11]>> There was a guy called Henry Brotheam. I think he was an anti-slavery wig. Um, so member of the wig party. He >> It's really sad that you have to define that. He was actually anti-slavery [laughter] standard.

[00:22:23]>> Wasn't keen on it.

[00:22:25]>> He looked at it. He thought, "You know what? Not for me."

[00:22:28]>> Oh my god. Are the wigs the left of the >> Yeah. So is I mean, you do that. Yeah.

[00:22:35]>> There's not really a left at this point.

[00:22:36]>> On the spectrum of right, are they more centrist? They're more liberal than the Tories, >> but like Australian liberal rather than like Liberal. Great. Okay, cool.

[00:22:45]>> Yeah. So, you've got the wigs with an H.

[00:22:47]Wig wigs.

[00:22:48]>> Wigs. Okay.

[00:22:49]>> Uh, and then you got the the tries, the Conservatives, and those are the two main parties and then there are sort of independents occasionally.

[00:22:54]>> Yeah, you do get sort of independence and sort of the organization of party was quite different. So, there was no national party sort of in terms of organization. And was Brotham, is that his name?

[00:23:04]>> So, Henry Brotham I think was his it's a weird way of spelling it, but I think Broom >> is it Broom? I think so.

[00:23:09]>> I mean, Jesus, come on. Come on.

[00:23:10]>> That is not what I thought you were going to say.

[00:23:12]>> B [laughter] R O U G H A M. I mean, you want to call that broom, you you do that if you want, but my god, that's brought them to me.

[00:23:19]>> That's amazing. You just got schooled.

[00:23:20]>> I got schooled. [laughter] Got my own podcast. Um, well, this is why you have the PhD.

[00:23:26]>> Amazing.

[00:23:26]>> He goes to Liverpool to contest it. He'd previously been an MP in a rotten burough in Cornwall and >> Okay. Not not a totally great guy.

[00:23:35]>> No. But he goes to Liverpool and he's gonna test it and he gives 206 speeches and he loses [laughter] >> sick of his voice.

[00:23:44]>> Like there's so many speeches. So if you think about how much money he's thrown at this probably he's gone up there.

[00:23:49]This poll's been open for weeks. He's doing a speech every night >> probably to the electorate and he still loses 206 times he's given that speech.

[00:23:57]>> How is it not a slam dunk post the abolition of slavery to be like not into it guys?

[00:24:03]>> Yeah.

[00:24:03]>> Also 206 speeches man. I mean, there's a lot to be said against 24-hour like media, but that's >> Yeah.

[00:24:09]>> But not having to give the same speech 206 times is not one of them.

[00:24:12]>> Exactly.

[00:24:13]>> I mean, giving speeches in elections was also a really tough sort of gig as well.

[00:24:17]The heckles. Well, yeah. People battling the elements.

[00:24:21]>> And battling, you know, the sounds of the crowd because you would get quite large crowds and they're not sort of all going to be listening intently to everything you're going to say. So, they're heckling. So, you get some amazing heckles.

[00:24:30]>> Not just heckles, of course. I mean, so there's stuff being chucked. So, do you want to guess, Katherine? What gets chucked at them? People who are unpopular.

[00:24:36]>> I'm going to guess fruit and veg.

[00:24:38]>> Fruit and veg is fine. Yep. Yep.

[00:24:39]Anything else? You look very worried right now.

[00:24:42]>> What else would they throw?

[00:24:43]>> Okay.

[00:24:43]>> Not eggs.

[00:24:44]>> Yeah. Go worse.

[00:24:46]>> No. What's worse?

[00:24:48]>> Feces.

[00:24:49]>> Animal or like their animal.

[00:24:50]>> Animal. Well, I mean, [laughter] we assume animal feces because there's a lot of it about it's on the street. It's on the floor. Stones definitely. And then the most intriguing one, dead cats.

[00:25:01]>> I take it back. Uh, club gigs aren't that hard.

[00:25:04]>> Yeah, exactly. What are you complaining about?

[00:25:06]>> That's dead cats.

[00:25:07]>> Dead cats. And dogs. Dead dogs. But I guess they're harder to throw.

[00:25:11]>> Yeah, they [laughter] >> I love that you're like obviously the impedment there is that hard to throw rather than >> you shouldn't be throwing dead cats or dogs just >> in terms of aerodynamics. A bigger dog, you know, you need a real big arm to chuck that. So obviously we've got dead cat strategy now in modern politics which is you know where you um do a sort of bizarre distraction stunt. It's called dead cat strategy where you supposedly throw a dead cat on the table and in the 18th century you literally threw a dead cat.

[00:25:39]>> Wow. That's [laughter] that's out of order. I would argue that's >> it's quite it was quite a common thing in the 18th century. Aristocrats quite often if they were unpopular they would often be pelted with dead animals. It was sort of a thing. So people chucked all sorts. Not much fun. But as you say, Hannah, loud, noisy, outdoors, rockous crowds. You're trying to yell your >> German shepherds being picked to your face, [laughter] depending on how the strength of the man who just dis just likes your speech.

[00:26:03]>> Maybe get a team together and then >> coordinate throwing the And then, you know, they're trying to bribe people.

[00:26:09]You're trying to incentivize them. Uh, and as you say, Hannah, the secret vote comes in in 1872. Before that, it's public, isn't it?

[00:26:16]>> So, the other thing, of course, with a public vote means that you can be intimidated. Do you want to guess what a bludgeon man is? I mean, I don't, but uh you're both looking at me, so I'm gonna Not someone to like beat someone up if they vote the wrong way.

[00:26:28]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:26:28]>> Yeah, essentially.

[00:26:30]>> It's a sort of large man with a stick, [laughter] >> guys. I mean, I'm laughing. That's That's really appalling.

[00:26:36]>> So, they were often hired or selected from shipyards and sort of fighting rings and had been hired by each side to sort of intimidate the other. But you didn't always just get sort of the hired help who attacked or intimidated voters.

[00:26:47]So during the Nottingham election of 1802, uh, a group of young men and boys climbed on top of the polling booth. So there were polling booths in the 18th and 19th centuries, but they were sort of different to what we think of them as being today. So there were usually quite a large structure that's been erected especially for this purpose. So the person would go inside through entering through one one side, give the name of the person they wanted to vote for or people.

[00:27:15]>> Mhm. and then leave by the other exit.

[00:27:17]But during the Nottingham election, some men and boys climbed on top of the polling booth. So they were and sort of were able to see down into into the polling booth and see who was voting for the Tory candidate, Daniel Pocker Cook.

[00:27:30]And then they were shouting down who had voted for Cook >> and then his supporters were attacked and it was sort of with stones and had their coats and jackets cut with knives.

[00:27:40]>> Whoa.

[00:27:40]>> I guess the other question is why take part in all this stuff? Do the ordinary people in the street actually care about politics? Do they know what their MPs are voting for? Are they enjoying it? Is it like theater? Is it spectacle?

[00:27:52]>> Yeah. So, they were hugely politically engaged partly as a result of huge range of election canvases you get being printed and distributed around the constituency sort of in the runup and during to the polls opening. Also you get sort of election songs being sung sort of composed and sung and then often ballad singers would sing them but also sell >> the hand billills of their ballads.

[00:28:14]>> So before Oh Jeremy Corbyn, oh Jeremy, it would be oh Henry Broom. [laughter] >> Yeah. Or sometimes they were set to popular songs of the time. Sometimes they were patriotic songs, but they weren't always patriotic messages. So there's one set to the national anthem, but it's instead of God Save the King, it's Bob Shave the King.

[00:28:33]>> [laughter] >> But in this case, it shave means decapit like guillotine, >> not sort of give him a shave.

[00:28:40]>> I love that they use like a clapback mentality on their national anthem.

[00:28:44]That's great.

[00:28:45]>> Although I prefer to just shave him. I like the idea just get in there and just like right come on proper grooming.

[00:28:50]>> So I we kind of said at the beginning of the show really that women weren't allowed to vote and I'm now going to somewhat backtrack on that a little bit because I think some were able to vote and some women did take part in politics, didn't they?

[00:29:01]>> Yeah. So technically before 1832, some women technically qualify to vote in constituencies where the franchise was dependent upon homeowner status. So usually they were wealthy single women or widows.

[00:29:13]>> Wow.

[00:29:14]>> But only a few actually ever voted in in sort of person. Generally they appointed proxies to vote on their behalf. But then occasionally a man presumably.

[00:29:23]>> Yeah. Yeah. A man. But there are instances of where even women who didn't qualify to vote still kind of gave it a go. So >> I love that talk to me.

[00:29:32]>> So uh during the New York bi-election of 1829, one woman disguised herself as a man. So she's dressed up in a man's coat and a a hat.

[00:29:41]>> Amazing.

[00:29:41]>> Went in and gave her name as Mr. Waterman.

[00:29:44]>> Okay.

[00:29:45]>> But her disguise probably wasn't that great. So she was spotted and and her vote was rejected.

[00:29:52]>> But there's still a Mr. Waterman noted in the poll book, which is where all the votes were written as voting. and their vote seems to be counted. So whether then >> So was she pretending to be Mr. Waterman?

[00:30:02]>> Yeah. So she gave you Well, I guess she was Mrs. Waterman, but I don't know.

[00:30:08]>> Was she punished for >> No. No. Or not that I know of. I've not sort of >> They didn't throw dead cat at her.

[00:30:12]>> No, I don't think so.

[00:30:14]>> So it wasn't a madeup name. It wasn't like Mickey Mouse. She was clearly >> There was a Mr. Waterman.

[00:30:18]>> Yeah.

[00:30:19]>> I respect the attempt.

[00:30:20]>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Fair. I mean voter ID is obviously something that you know it's it's complicated politically speaking but you know putting on a hat is not a hugely impressive. [laughter] >> Yeah. Okay. She could have tried harder.

[00:30:31]Fine. But those who didn't have the right to vote still were able to take a really quite an active role in parliamentary politics and elections. So certain women usually from quite elite families often played quite a public role in canvasing. The most famous example would be the Duchess of Devonshire.

[00:30:47]>> So Georgiana.

[00:30:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh canvasing on behalf of Charles James Fox during the Westminster election of 1784. Even further down the social scale, women often took quite an active role during elections. So either attending the hustings or being part of processions and sort of chairing ceremonies when the elected MPs would be sort of paraded around the town on the chair. Of course they would. Yeah. So they were often part of those processions and celebrations. So they were like, "The women can organize and get us votes and do the hard work provided that they are already rich, educated, and privileged, and then we'll just take the seats in the House Commons." Oh, that's so lovely. That's really good to hear. You know, yay, feminism. Okay. And so I assume that also means that you never really have elected representatives appealing to the interests of women because there's no value in doing so.

[00:31:34]>> So a lot of the election hand bills and uh literature that was produced wasn't always tailored to them. So it didn't address them specifically, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have read it.

[00:31:43]>> Also, you get examples when at the Hustings the candidates would make speeches and sometimes they would address the women specifically, sometimes saying, "You've not been addressed so far during this election."

[00:31:53]And sort of appealing to them that way.

[00:31:54]So they were definitely involved in elections and campaigns.

[00:31:59]>> Okay, >> it's time probably for us to move on to a slightly different element here. We have a lovely Irish comedian in the room. So, you know, let's do some Irish history. And the crucial thing to say is that Ireland is part of this story as of 1801. In fact, slightly earlier really because 1801 is the act of union. It's where Ireland joins Britain to become the United Kingdom.

[00:32:19]>> Join.

[00:32:20]>> Well, [laughter] yeah. Exactly.

[00:32:23]>> Let's talk a little bit about it. So throughout the 18th century, the British had essentially forced repression and land confiscation on the Irish people and had reduced the rights of Irish Catholics. And this led to a lot of political violence and revolution and revolt and so on. The most famous one, the Irish revolt of 1798. I mean, presumably you do it at school. Is that something you know a bit about?

[00:32:44]>> Yeah. I mean, it's not the it's sort of everything in Irish history in terms of crickets is a precursor to 1960. And so you have like a slow bill. So yes, but also but there's there were them those before that as well.

[00:32:55]>> There are several. And then there's one in 1803 as well called Emmit Rebellion.

[00:32:58]Yes.

[00:32:58]>> But 1798 is sort of quite an important one because the French get involved as well. They're trying to Napoleon's trying to help the Irish rebel against the British.

[00:33:07]>> Interesting.

[00:33:08]>> But it kind of brings forward a really interesting guy who is a hero in Ireland, Daniel O'Connell.

[00:33:15]>> Not to be confused with Daniel O'Donnell.

[00:33:16]>> I mean, your grandmother's favorite.

[00:33:18]>> Uh, exactly.

[00:33:19]>> Everyone loves him.

[00:33:20]>> I mean, a real fine line between having cats and knickers thrown at you. Uh, but yeah, it's not not to be confused. Good to know. Great.

[00:33:27]>> That' be a really weird sort of job.

[00:33:28]>> It would be a weird mix. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know how effective Daniel O'Donnell would have been, but man, the ladies would have loved him, provided that the ladies were octogenarians. Yes.

[00:33:38]>> For listeners at home who don't know who Daniel O'Donnell is. He's a he's a very smooth kuner.

[00:33:42]>> Is he or is he just Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[00:33:46]You know what? Don't uh cast aspirations on Daniel O'Donnell because that's how you get excommunicated. Daniel Oonnell uh was political activist on the part of Irish Catholics >> and a proud Dubliner. And there's a statue of him I believe in Dublin, I think.

[00:33:58]>> Yes. He's from Kerry though, isn't he? I believe that there's he's well represented in Dublin. The other thing about Daniel O' Connell that's that's pretty famous is he won a jewel and killed a man and then felt real bad about it.

[00:34:08]>> Well, yeah. How did he think that was going to go any other way?

[00:34:11]>> Well, he was famously he was sort of a pacifist. He really didn't believe in violence. He didn't take part in the emit rebellion. He didn't take part in any of those things. But he ended up in this jewel and he sort of shot the guy and then >> you'd feel horrendous.

[00:34:21]>> The guy died and he's like, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." Anyway, that's that's by the bite. He is known in Ireland as Do you know his nickname? is he's the emancipator but he's also >> Yes. Or the liberator.

[00:34:30]>> The liberator. Yeah. Okay. Great. So 1798 Daniel Oonnell not Donald is neither croning nor receiving knickers.

[00:34:38]He is not party to but aware of the rebellion.

[00:34:42]>> Yeah. So the rebellion largely failed largely of the arrest of sort of many of the ring leaders. The 1801 act of union was then designed to sort of neutralize the problem. So the plan was for the act of union between Ireland and Britain.

[00:34:55]Eventually in February 1800, the Irish Act of Union passed by 158 votes to 115 and then it came into effect on the 1st of January 1801. So the result of that was that the Irish Parliament was abolished and instead Ireland was given 100 MPs at Westminster, >> but Catholics weren't allowed to stand.

[00:35:15]They could stand, but they weren't allowed to go and take their seat in Westminster, >> right?

[00:35:19]>> So Catholics were just essentially removed from the political process. But Daniel Oonnell is this great orator who steps up and goes, "Come on, this is ridiculous. This, you know, you've taken our parliament off of us and we still haven't got any rights." Okay. Catholics weren't allowed to vote. They weren't allowed to have certain government jobs.

[00:35:34]Um, and this was brought down in 1829, isn't it? Hannah.

[00:35:38]>> Yeah. The so-called Catholic question had been discussed since the late 18th century and there had been plans to include emancipation as part of the act of union. Although this was opposed by George III who opposed it on the belief that it undermined the Protestant constitution. The issue of Catholic emancipation became a major discussion point and some elections across the country came to be dominated by the question of Catholic emancipation along with the idea of parliamentary reform.

[00:36:03]But despite this in some areas anti-atholic feeling still remained really quite high. So you get petitions being sent to the commons both in favor and against emancipation. So in 1828 the test and corporations act which had barred dissenters protestant desenters from holding civil and political office they were abolished which to some degree paved the way for Catholic emancipation a year later in 1829.

[00:36:29]>> And so it's in 1829 that they are allowed back in and given equal rights thanks to Daniel Okonnell.

[00:36:35]>> Okay. So >> wow. Hence the liberator.

[00:36:37]>> Yeah, makes sense.

[00:36:38]>> And the knickers being thrown at him.

[00:36:40]>> Yeah. No, absolutely. Get that man an album. Let's have him at Christmas number one.

[00:36:44]>> Introducing. Yeah. [laughter] >> Amazing. But presumably come 1829, you still had all of the same disabling factors for people not being able to vote. So, >> well, that brings us very neatly, thank you Katherine, to d the 1832 Great Reform Act.

[00:37:00]>> Oh, great.

[00:37:01]>> So, this is the sort of biggie now. But 1829, as you say, is a really powerful, really important moment, >> but it has a knock-on effect as well.

[00:37:08]And that knock-on effect is the sort of push for more reform.

[00:37:12]>> And 1832, Hannah, is it's a really uh closely fought battle, isn't it?

[00:37:16]>> Yeah. So, the idea of parliamentary reform and sort of the need for reform had been discussed from the middle of the 18th century, if not before. And there had been numerous attempts to introduce a bill into the commons since then, but they were rejected each time by the lords, the House of Lords. sort of a hugely complicated sort of twoing and throwing yeah story to try and get the reform bill to be passed. So then in April 1831 parliament's dissolved.

[00:37:42]>> Did somebody die?

[00:37:43]>> No, not in not this time. So the government was defeated on on a point a particular point of the bill.

[00:37:49]>> Okay.

[00:37:50]>> So then at the subsequent election, this returns a largely pro-reform majority in the commons. So in July of 1831, there's another bill which passes through the commons by a large majority again, >> but it's rejected in the House of Lords.

[00:38:05]>> Not again.

[00:38:06]>> So that it's rejected in October and then this sparks uh riots across the country. And who's the >> king? William IV.

[00:38:15]>> Yeah.

[00:38:15]>> Okay. Is William a modern? Is it like a reformist? Well, so he's largely against the reform bill, but sort of in public he he comes out for it largely because he sort of sees that he's run out of options as no, if he opposes it, if the bill's rejected, it's just going to descend into chaos.

[00:38:33]>> Okay?

[00:38:33]>> So he knows he needs >> he knows that the bill needs to be passed. So he goes through various acts and sort of creates new peers in the House of Lords who are pro-reform to push the bill the bill through.

[00:38:44]>> Cool. in May 1832. Yeah. He creates the new peers and then the reform bill passes in June uh 1832 uh by 196 votes to 22 and then receives royal ascent and becomes part of law and then does separate bills for Scotland and Ireland.

[00:39:01]>> And so what are the reforms?

[00:39:03]>> Yes, good question.

[00:39:04]>> So it creates 22 new burers. So you get >> places [laughter] towns such as Manchester and Birmingham now have the right to vote whereas before they didn't. It's not what I thought you were going to say, but okay, cool. It also introduces a universal franchise across the country. So, it no longer it gets rid of all the sort of the different types of constituencies.

[00:39:22]>> Okay. So, everyone can vote over the age of 21. So, the burough franchise is gone. Yeah. No more poting.

[00:39:28]>> Okay. But you do have to be able to pay £10.

[00:39:30]>> You do have to be able to pay £10, which um >> a shitload of money, I'm guessing.

[00:39:34]>> Yeah. So this is one of the reasons why many of the working classes who had really pinned their hopes on being able to be infranchised as part of this, they largely felt quite let down by the terms of the bill.

[00:39:46]>> That makes sense.

[00:39:47]>> And the ladies, >> so they still can't vote.

[00:39:50]>> And uh the act also failed to introduce a secret ballot. So voting was still done in public as >> all that. And it's like PS, we're still going to be able to whack you over the head if you vote for the wrong person.

[00:40:01]Jokes on you.

[00:40:02]>> But it is a reform of sorts. And in fairness, the sheep of old serum can no longer vote. So the secret vote comes in 1872. So there's still like 40 years before, you know, so there's still loads of reforms still to come, but it's a really important milestone in British constitutional law and history uh and Ireland too. I suppose >> the nuance window.

[00:40:22][music] >> All right, we've got to the point of the show that I love the most, which is called the nuance window. And this is where Katherine and I shut up and we allow our experts. Your favorite part of the show is where Katherine shuts up.

[00:40:34]>> Favorite bit of the showing is where I [laughter] I have a little nap and then No, it's it's where we get to listen to our expert freewheeling and talking for two minutes on something they particularly specialize in. And Hannah, you have researched the history of election specifically, but you're really like good on like election sort of pamphlets and bump and that kind of stuff, aren't you?

[00:40:53]>> Yeah. Although that wasn't necessarily what was I was going to focus on. So I was going to focus a little bit on the types of canvases uh that were produced over the course of canvasing and the way in which that allowed those who were not eligible to vote still were able to sort of get involved in elections and take part and have access to political opinions. Okay. So uh from elections of the 18th and early 19th century there were in some ways quite similar to our own 21st century elections. uh there were discussions as to the extent to which once elected MPs would carry out the will of the people who'd voted them into power as opposed to the good of the party. Similarly, elections were fought and won on the basis of local uh national and also international issues.

[00:41:37]But on the other hand, elections were also really different to our own, especially in terms of uh who could and couldn't vote as we've already seen. But that's not to say that those who couldn't vote had no way of expressing their opinions. There was a huge variety of election literature including songs and ballads which would have been sung on the street. So even the illiterate in some ways would still have been able to have access to the politics and the personalities of those involved and those standing for election. So before voting began, voters often took part in an informal show of hands that often had the power to sway the basis of an election. So often a candidate would sort of retire if they could see that they were really unpopular. Finally, the thing I want to really emphasize is the fact that we often focus on the idea that elections during the 18th and 19th centuries were really corrupt and voters were easily swayed in the choice of a candidate based on sort of how good a bribe they received. But this wasn't necessarily the case. So although we've mentioned that there were obvious cases such as corrupt borrowers such as old serum but in the majority of cases voters had quite a good deal of independence in terms of their choice of a candidate and even when voters were expected to vote in a particular way usually it was only one of their two votes that they were expected to give.

[00:42:52]>> Wow. two minutes on the clock and that's also really surprising because you know we've talked about corruption but actually you're arguing that there's there's an element here the politics works at the time >> sort of it works to a certain extent the bribery and corruption generally the MPs and their patrons didn't have enough money to particularly in large constituencies bribe the whole electorate [laughter] >> right >> so it was only really in the tiny bur >> so we're talking about anomalies rather than the >> rules definitely not so what do you know Ow.

[00:43:23][music] We've reached the part of the show which is called the So what do you know now?

[00:43:28]This is where our comedian guest Katherine is tested on what she has learned today in our exciting podcast.

[00:43:35]And I mean in fairness, this has been fascinating but quite technical and quite tricky at times because we're talking about law and constitution and stuff like that. Some of these questions, you know, you may not you may not ace but I have great faith in you, Katherine. I have no faith in >> you got nine out of 10 last time and you have a history degree. So, [laughter] >> but I talk so much. Why did I talk so much? Why didn't I just listen?

[00:43:56]>> It's fine. It's not a problem at all.

[00:43:58]I'm going to be a generous marker.

[00:44:00]>> Okay.

[00:44:01]>> So, you've got a minute on the clock.

[00:44:02]>> A minute.

[00:44:03]>> 10 questions. Here we go.

[00:44:05]>> Okay.

[00:44:05]>> When was the secret ballot introduced?

[00:44:08]>> Uh 79.

[00:44:09]>> 1872.

[00:44:11]>> Two it is. Yes. One point. Okay. Until 19 1911, the lifespan of a parliament was how many years? Years. Exactly. And that's what happened.

[00:44:18]>> The king died. Yes. Or the queen.

[00:44:20]>> What was a pot waloper?

[00:44:21]>> A bur where the way you voted was if you owned a hearth in your house.

[00:44:26]>> Absolutely. How long were the polls open for? Generally >> approximately a week.

[00:44:30]>> You are nailing this. Four out of four so far. Which dead animal was often thrown at candidates during hustling cats. Who was the first de facto prime minister?

[00:44:38]>> Walpole.

[00:44:39]>> Yes. Walpole. Until the great reform act approximately how many parliamentary seats were uncontested we haven't said this so just have a guess.

[00:44:46]>> Ah now lads what just randomly h I don't know like 30 >> 70% of seats were uncontested. Sorry.

[00:44:55]>> Oh I didn't know we were talking percentages. My apologies. I wasn't close either way. [laughter] >> What were the two main political parties in the >> wigs and the conservatives?

[00:45:02]>> Yes. When was the great reform act?

[00:45:05]>> 1829.

[00:45:06]>> Uh 32.

[00:45:07]>> 32. Damn it. 29 was the Sorry, I only talked about my own reform that I care about. Go on.

[00:45:13]>> And which famous Irish political leader is known as the liberator?

[00:45:16]>> Okonnell Daniel.

[00:45:17]>> Eight out of 10 is a very strong score.

[00:45:19][groaning] >> It's a strong score. I >> No, it means I'm getting worse [laughter] as we go on.

[00:45:24]>> Not at all. This is >> I contest that it's eight out of nine for I did I was never told the initial information the uncontested elections.

[00:45:31]That was like that's a fair complaint.

[00:45:33]>> What kind of curriculum is we really [laughter] >> You know what? Actually, I'm going to I'm going to give you that eight eight out of nine. Uh, >> when in doubt, contest to the test.

[00:45:42]>> You did also answer the question about the king dying, which is a secondary question. I'll take it.

[00:45:46]>> So, nine out of 10.

[00:45:47]>> Let's Let's say that. We'll draw >> Well done. Very impressive. I hope you've enjoyed doing that. I think we've run out of time, but I've learned some stuff. Have you learned some stuff?

[00:45:54]>> Loads. I've had a great time. Thanks for having me.

[00:45:56]>> Okay. Well, that's pretty much it for today. Thank you so much to both of you.

[00:45:59]It's been a hoot. We have learned some really fascinating stuff. We have in some ways confirmed what we thought we knew about the 18th century, but also learned some some slightly nuance stuff.

[00:46:07]Big thank you to my guests in history corner, Dr. Hannah Nicholson from University of Nottingham and in Comedy Corner, Katherine Bohart. Thanks to you at home for listening and for lending us your vote. Please do share the podcast with your friends. Uh leave reviews online. Do all those things you're meant to do with podcasts. Uh subscribe what.

[00:46:23]But for now, I think we're off to go and round up some dead cats and hurl them at people we think aren't worthy of our vote. I actually have a collection I've been dying to use.

[00:46:31]>> Well, I I figured we would. With that, farewell.

[00:46:36]>> You're Dead to Me was a Muddy News media production for BBC Radio 4. The researcher was Morris Casey, the script writer was Emma Negus, and the producer was Cornelius [music] Mendes.