‘You didn’t answer my question, I know why’: Murray berates NIH Chief over budget cut in billions

追加: 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]Dr. Bhattacharya, how do you justify cutting NIH research by billions to send a half a trillion more to the Pentagon?

[00:00:07]Do Do you personally support that?

[00:00:09]>> My job is to make sure that the that my colleagues have what the resources they need to fund the best biomedical research in this country.

[00:00:16]>> Well, you didn't didn't really answer the question and I I know why. Doctor, we are now dealing with that hantavirus outbreak and a deeply concerning emerging Ebola outbreak. With less funding and fewer staff and stalled research, can you incredibly tell us that we are better prepared for public health threats than we were a year ago?

[00:00:35]>> The last about 2 and 1/2 months, 3 months, what I've just encountered is an absolute professionalism.

[00:00:41]>> We're joined by the co-chair of the full committee, Senator Murray, so thank you for coming. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and welcome to all of you. Look, the NIH funding level is isn't just a number on a page. It really determines how much we can fund opportunities to discover the next life-saving cures, whether it's for cancer, Alzheimer's, or diabetes, and so much more. And that's why so many of us have fought so hard to boost NIH funding. Between 2017 and 2023, we were able to increase NIH funding to support more than 6,000 additional grants for research on childhood cancer, on dementia, on many other terrible diseases. And not that Now that that was only possible because our overall non-defense budget was growing. But now what we have in front of us is that Congressional Republicans have for years now held that domestic budget flat. And that meant that NIH funding has been essentially flat for the last 3 years, resulting in fewer grants and fewer cures. And the budget that we have now been presented by you and the president are literally asking Congress to cut NIH's budget for by $6 billion in order to provide room to give Trump his one and a half trillion dollar war budget. So Dr. Dr. Bhattacharya, how how do you justify cutting NIH research by billions to send a half a trillion more to the Pentagon? Do Do you personally support that?

[00:02:16]Senator, the the budget is obviously a major problem for this country.

[00:02:22]The NIH What my job is to make sure that the that my colleagues have what the resources they need to fund the best biomedical research in this country and I'm really grateful to the work with Congress and the administration to to to make sure that that's possible. Uh Well, you didn't didn't really answer the question and I I know why, but it just for all of us to understand, we're being asked to cut NIH by $6 billion.

[00:02:45]Why? In order to provide a huge increase on the defense side. And according to one estimate, it would not take not even 2% of Trump's war budget to prepare candidate vaccines against active viral diseases. So I hope this committee rejects that um request and works to make sure that we provide opportunity for for Americans when it comes to biomedical research.

[00:03:08]Um Dr., we are now dealing with that hantavirus outbreak and a deeply concerning emerging Ebola outbreak.

[00:03:16]I am very concerned because there is a void of public health leadership from this administration, especially as you now work to balance two roles as we talked about yesterday, um two full-time jobs.

[00:03:29]With less funding and fewer staff and stalled research, can you credibly tell us that we are better prepared for public health threats than we were a year ago?

[00:03:39]Senator, [snorts] what I can tell you is that as the acting director of the CDC the last about two and a half months, three months, what I've just encountered is absolute professionalism. A CDC public health staff who has devoted their lives to protecting this country and all frankly the world from the kind of infectious diseases that you've seen.

[00:03:59]The Hantavirus outbreak for instance which which the CDC has played such an important role in addressing is is largely contained in part because of the professionalism of the CDC employees that that that I've had the privilege to Yeah, I I I don't doubt the professionalism and I greatly admire everybody who's doing this hard work, but the reality is we we are behind. I just heard that at least eight of the top 10 officials at NIAID are no longer in the roles and that includes the institute's director, it's top allergy and immunology scientist of nearly 30 years and the microbiology and infectious disease director.

[00:04:37]We we need to have those people on the job right now and I this is I think deeply concerning to all of us as we look at that and and this administration has also terminated over a thousand infectious disease research grants, terminated 500 million in promising mRNA and a vaccine contracts our best bet for a rapidly developing is for a rapidly developing vaccine as we are looking at Hantavirus and Ebola. So I I'm just really concerned that you have even terminated NIAID funding for a group that was studying the exact type of Hantavirus that caused the deadly outbreak that we're dealing with right now. We've lost 4,000 expert staff. I know you're scrambling to rehire, but it just seems like we have dismantled our infectious disease research and development pipeline and we will pay the price. So let me just address that. So the NIAID is is such an important part of the NIH. It and for many years it has had civilian biodefense as among one of its goals.

[00:05:41]We've shifted the the focus of the NIAID to address diseases and conditions that people actually have including the hantavirus including including uh you know Ebola and so much else and we also shifted the priorities to to prioritize allergy and immunology.

[00:05:59]That shift means that we need some new leadership. The folks you're talking about are still at the NIH but they've been assigned to places where they can help with the changed mission of the NIAID to focus on on infectious diseases and on allergy immunology.

[00:06:14]The Well, I would say we need both and I'm very worried that these people Well civilian civilian biodefense I don't I don't think the NIAID should play a leading role we are civilian agency and we should be focused on the threats to health that Americans actually face.

[00:06:29]So for instance like ending the HIV epidemic we need implementation science. So I've asked NIAID to to bring scientists who are excellent at implementation science so we have because we have the tools we need the technological tools. We just need to understand how to use them to end the HIV epidemic. That's going to mean a new set of scientists and expertise at the NIAID.

[00:06:50]We have had that but I've just increased the emphasis on that.

[00:06:53]I want to use the NIAID for addressing the health needs of the country. Okay.

[00:06:58]So I'm not going to I hate to interrupt you but I just I'm telling you we are watching this it's deeply concerning. I know you're trying to justify it but I think at a time when we are seeing these kinds of outbreaks that it is disconcerting to all of us to see the public health side of CDC and NIH lose a lot of their experts. Let me ask you one other question cuz I want to ask you about the pediatric trial net network which funds studies into safe use of medication for children. Are you aware that last year's NIH pediatric trial net network received only part of its funding?

[00:07:31]I know there's some contracting issues with it. I'm absolutely committed to making sure that we do have opportunities for children across the country to work on on participate in clinical trials.

[00:07:42]>> let me ask you specifically because it received 11 million. That is 7 million less than in 2024 and researchers were told by NIH that this year's funding is going to be even less. In fact, researchers at Seattle Children's Hospital are going to have to stop their work investigating how pain medications can be safely used to help some of our sickest children as they face surgery and hospitalization. And this funding was cut because of an arbitrary nonsense rule made by OMB Director Vought that caps spending on contracts. We have more than 4,000 children from 29 different states. They're currently enrolled in active trials including in my home state of Washington. Do you know what will happen to all that data and infrastructure that was built to conduct these pediatric trials? Senator, we want we make sure that any any trial that's ending, make sure that we have the data that from those trials as part of the contract that the process >> It is hundreds of samples have been wasted. That is what I'm being told.

[00:08:42]Blood samples for more than 400 children and other tissue that was given selflessly. So, labs are closed and scientists across the country are really looking at what is being lost here and the worst part is we have kids who are not able to receive evidence-based treatment. So, I am watching this and I am deeply concerned and so are many families in my state. Senator, we we've invested in a new PICU at Pediatric Intensive Care Unit at the Clinical Center and at the NIH campus so that we can expand our research on very very sick kids. I'm absolutely committed to that.

[00:09:16]>> what you're saying there, but I'm telling you I'm seeing the reality on the ground at Seattle Children's that is deeply concerning. We're happy to connect with you to make sure that we can address that. Thank you, Senator Britt. Thank you, Madam Chairman.

[00:09:30]Dr. Bhattacharya, thank you so much for your commitment to ensuring that life-saving and life-changing research continues and is seen through through to fruition. I know this entire group is responsible for that. Um you are giving people hope and giving people an opportunity to live another day and I just want to tell you how grateful I am for that and what an honor it is to stand alongside you in that. I want to pick up on something that we heard earlier from my colleague from Hawaii.

[00:09:56]Um Dr. Um Volkow [clears throat] I appreciate your leadership at NIDA.

[00:10:03]When we're looking at addiction and we're looking at um different different abuses, um your research has really been groundbreaking.

[00:10:13]Um one of your areas of study is actually uh gambling addiction and we are seeing that run rampant. You could ask any 15-through-30-year-old um about people gambling and the prevalence of that addiction amongst their peers and you will be startled by what you hear. Um can you talk to me a little bit about what we know about gambling disorder and what characteristics make some groups uniquely vulnerable to this addiction?

[00:10:48]Thanks very much for that question and I think this is an important issue that deserves attention. To your very specific question in terms who are the highest risk is teenagers. Yep. The transition from teenagers to young adults and that what we are do seeing is a significant rise in gambling uh whether it is through sports or other means among young population as well as in adults. And so if you look at it from our understanding from the biology, we know that the circuits involved with addictive behaviors to drugs actually overlap with those that leads to compulsive use of behaviors like gambling. We are also very interested on determining if therapeutic interventions that we are using for addictive drugs can have beneficial effects for gambling addiction. So, that's another area. But, I do think it is crucial that we educate the public and that we mount prevention interventions that can protect children and adolescents from gambling disorders.

[00:11:48]>> So, I want to talk about prevention.

[00:11:49]When you're looking though, real quick, so you're saying younger people um and I have found in in research that I have seen that it seems to be younger men it's even more prevalent in that space, but this addictive behavior can occur with any young person. Um they're susceptible to to what um is driven to them and then they get into a pattern that they cannot get out. Um and we see if they start this earlier, am I right that that will continue the prevalence of that continuing through their life is significant. You just mentioned prevention. Um Senator Blumenthal and I dropped the GAME Act this week where it bans uh digital marketing to teenagers, to underage individuals for gaming.

[00:12:34]Right now, we're seeing um that not be the case. We think that that could make a significant difference if they're not being driven that marketing. Do you agree with that? Uh I would agree from what we know, absolutely. And and that could prevent them from getting exposed.

[00:12:49]Okay. And that's I we've got to do something. You just mentioned it's the next generation. Um we continue to hear these stories. We continue to see the data, but yet Congress continues to be feckless when it comes to actually dealing with what's happening with our young people, with social media, with putting up proper guardrails, and protecting them from these types of advertisements. I mean, the truth is when you look at things like gaming or pornography, when we all grew up if that's something that somebody engaged in you you had to actually go go somewhere, go go to a store, you had to call a bookie, you had to do all of these things to make this happen. All of that is now in the palm of a child's hand. They are being delivered advertisements to to gamble. They are being delivered pornography on the daily. And the fact that we are doing nothing about it is absurd. And so, I hope that people will take a look at your research and that we will do our job and protect the most vulnerable, um which is our children. So, thank you so much. Please continue to do that research and I look forward to working with you. Um Dr. Bhattacharya, um you have been prioritizing early career researchers. Just real quick, I don't have much time and I have one more question. I I wanted to ask about just early-stage investigators and how you're making sure they're able to compete with more well-established investigators to make sure that we have the best research and that we are creating a pipeline where America continues to dominate. And then, I also wanted to just have a quick question about rural health care. We talked about clinical trials. I heard some of my colleagues talk about that as well. It's important that those occur and it is important that those are accessible to every single individual regardless of their zip code. So, I'd also like to know what NIH is doing to make that more obtainable um in places that are sometimes unreached. Thank you, Senator Britt. So, on early career investigators, uh very quickly, we have a a funding strategy called the unified funding strategy that allows institute directors that you see here to identify projects that are at the cutting edge, which tend to be early career investigators that propose them, and prioritize them for funding. Uh we're also going to continue the training grants and all of the all of the sort of standard investments we make and double down on those cuz I completely agree with you. Our investment in early career investigators is is vital for the future in biomedical research in this country. Uh Dr. Ryder, would you mind uh talking about investments in rural health and uh Absolutely. Uh thank you so much and thank you for your question. I would also just uh agree with the idea that we are uh at at NCATS um supporting in our clinical and translational science awards program many more early training uh career development programs and early research programs. So, uh we're excited about that. In terms of rural research, Senator, I'm also from a small western town in Garden City, Kansas, and so this is very personal to me.

[00:15:35]With a large clinical and translational science awards program, we work with the the idea state programs, and we work with other hubs and spokes that the CTSAs also award. And through that, we've developed a rural health network within that program called the cores program. And what they do is they're funding rural pilots, they're funding workforce models that they can share across their what they're learning and doing, and they're solving common barriers that exist within the rural environments. And this has been very critical to those activities. And so, in a way, the CTSA program, even though it is not necessarily in and of itself in rural environments, it is partnering with those who are and helping to disseminate the research findings to get it out into those communities. Things like digital health and and telemedicine to be able to disseminate those findings more broadly.

[00:16:25]>> I'd love to continue to work with you on that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.