Arrogant "Bible Believing" Christian Vs Jay Dyer

[00:00:01][music] >> I'm new to the channel.

[00:00:06]I just tuned in. I saw the the tag Protestantism Pro- Protestantism is false. Prove me wrong.

[00:00:16]>> Uh-huh.

[00:00:17]>> So, and then I heard you say something about you're being like a Orthodox.

[00:00:21]>> Yeah.

[00:00:23]>> So, do you think that Orthodoxy is like the one true church?

[00:00:28]>> Yes.

[00:00:29]>> Okay.

[00:00:31]Yeah.

[00:00:32]Scripture uh would argue that I don't need to argue that because scripture argues that for me.

[00:00:39]Jesus himself says that.

[00:00:41]He's against sectarianism.

[00:00:43]And I I can tell you the verses, too.

[00:00:46]>> Right, but this is prior to that because I would argue that the Orthodox Church is who put that Bible together. So, the reason that he's against sectarianism is because he set up a college of apostles who have successors who are his church.

[00:01:01]So, anyone who's not in the Orthodox Church is the sectarians that you're talking about.

[00:01:06]>> Yeah, I'm sure you've like had this argument before.

[00:01:09]But, what you just said is like self-defeating because you just said that if they were the ones that set up the Bible and what in what is in the Bible is the most true, which I believe it to be the most true, then sectarianism is against Jesus' will.

[00:01:28]>> Correct. Right. I agree.

[00:01:30]>> Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know why you're like trying to be divisive.

[00:01:35]>> Well, I'm not being divisive because I'm calling people to the unity of the same church that existed in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth centuries. So, we believe the same as those people. That's the identical beliefs and church that we have today. So, that shows that whatever Protestant sect you're in is the actual sectarianism.

[00:01:55]>> I never said I was in one.

[00:01:57]>> In what?

[00:01:58]>> A Protestant sect.

[00:02:00]>> Okay, what what are you in?

[00:02:02]>> I just follow the Bible.

[00:02:04]>> Well, that's that doesn't exist. That's even worse because that's worse than a sectarian church. That's you alone. That doesn't exist.

[00:02:14]>> It does exist. There's Bible There's Bible churches.

[00:02:19]You can be a follower of Christ and not belong to a specific sect.

[00:02:24]>> Jesus is >> think?

[00:02:25]>> Jesus established Jesus established a church. And that church, if you look at Paul's epistles, first and second Timothy, is based around, in that case at Ephesus, the person that Paul laid his hands on, who was Timothy. And then Paul tells Timothy, "Don't pass on this apostolic deposit without laying hands on somebody who you know is approved because it gives the gift of the Holy Spirit." That's apostolic succession. It mirrors the uh example in Numbers 11 where Moses lays hands on the elders to give them authority and the spirit that Moses had, so the Holy Spirit goes from Moses to the 70 elders. That parallels the apostolic succession of the New Testament, particularly in Acts 1 where you have a replacement for a Judas. Uh and it says that replaced his office or episcopate. That's Episcopal church government. And that's why when I'm when I'm telling you, if you look at the church in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh centuries, they don't teach evangelical do-it-yourself Bible church stuff. They believe in what the Orthodox church teaches. So, you're the sectarian.

[00:03:33]>> I I don't believe so because it's very clear in the even in the Apostles' Creeds, says uh they believe in the one uh Catholic Church. What What do you think Catholic means?

[00:03:46]>> So, we don't follow the Apostles' Creed.

[00:03:47]That's pseudonymous. That's a uh Western Creed. You're talking about Niceno Constantinopolitan Constantinopolitan Creed. It says one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. That's the four marks.

[00:03:58]Does your uh strip mall Bible Church have the four marks?

[00:04:03]>> But you didn't answer my question.

[00:04:05]>> I said one holy Catholic Apostolic, the four marks. That's what's necessary for the Church.

[00:04:11]>> No, I I asked you what does Catholic mean?

[00:04:14]>> Fullness of truth according to the fathers who Yes, it does. According to the fathers who composed that, that's what they interpreted it to mean.

[00:04:22]>> No, it means universal.

[00:04:24]>> It means in the Orthodox Church not just universality in terms of numbers because Roman Catholics make this argument that it means numbers in terms of universality. That's why I'm qualifying it with fullness of truth. That's what it means in the Orthodox Church. So it can't be numbers. Let me give an example why.

[00:04:42]In the fourth century, the majority of the Church was Arian or semi-Arian. So you can't identify it with a large number of people. The fullness >> You're conflating like a heresy with Yeah, I don't know why you're bringing >> No, I'm not. I know this subject matter very well. I'm not conflating anything.

[00:05:01]I'm telling you >> because you've had these debates over and over >> No, I've studied this for 20 plus years.

[00:05:06]This is not just a debate.

[00:05:08]>> What you're having is willful ignorance.

[00:05:11]Like you're choosing to disregard when people have told you in the past that Catholic means universal.

[00:05:18]>> No, I know what the word itself means.

[00:05:21]I'm giving you the Orthodox explanation that it's not just a universality sense of numbers. I'm giving you a deeper sense that the Orthodox theological tradition gives it. I know that. I know what universality is. I I learned this stuff 25 years ago, dude.

[00:05:35]>> Yeah.

[00:05:38]Why are you mocking me?

[00:05:40]>> Because of your condescending condescending attitude. It's getting on my nerves.

[00:05:43]>> I'm not being condescending.

[00:05:45]>> You are. You're talking about that people have told me this in the past and I wasn't rebuked properly and I didn't listen to them. What are you even talking about?

[00:05:52]>> you. I'm not rebuking you.

[00:05:54]>> You said people in the past have told me this and I'm being arrogant and I need to be rebuked. That's what you're saying.

[00:06:00]>> No, I never said that.

[00:06:01]>> Stop being passive-aggressive. Come on.

[00:06:02]Get Get to your point. What's your argument?

[00:06:05]>> I'm not being passive-aggressive, either.

[00:06:07]>> One holy catholic apostolic does not mean strip mall Bible church like you believe.

[00:06:14]>> Okay, that's that's just rude.

[00:06:18]>> Okay. It's It's rude. Fine.

[00:06:19]>> I've never Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:21]>> It doesn't matter. What's your argument?

[00:06:23]>> See, what you're doing is condescending.

[00:06:24]>> Stop doing the two-quote. Now, you want to do a Stop tone policing. Get to the argument. This is so gay, dude.

[00:06:30]>> a strip mall like you're >> You said you belong to your own thing at a Bible church. That's what strip mall Bible churches are.

[00:06:37]>> Yeah, that's that's like super condescending. So, you know, I feel like you're >> making bad arguments because you started out wanting to argue the people Stop interrupting.

[00:06:46]>> the Bible making bad arguments because I already told you that it's the Bible that argues for me.

[00:06:51]>> You don't How do you have the How do you know you have the right Bible?

[00:06:56]>> How do you know you have the right Bible?

[00:06:58]>> look to the Orthodox I can look to the Orthodox tradition and the canons of the apostles that we pulled up earlier.

[00:07:04]>> Mhm. And so, they tell you it's like the King James or something.

[00:07:08]>> The King James? The church fathers? No.

[00:07:11]The canons of the apostles are like the 300s. That's not going to be the King James, goofus.

[00:07:16]>> I I know. I was joking.

[00:07:18]>> No, you weren't. No, you didn't know what we're talking about. I'm talking about apostolic canon 85. Do you know what that is?

[00:07:26]>> The apostolic canon 85? No, I don't know what that is.

[00:07:29]>> Right. So, you weren't joking. You have no idea.

[00:07:33]>> I was joking about the King James thing.

[00:07:35]>> Okay, how do you know that you have the right Protestant Bible?

[00:07:40]>> Okay, how do you know that I'm a Protestant?

[00:07:41]>> That's a two Oh my gosh, this is too stupid. We're done.

[00:07:45]>> Bye.

[00:07:47]>> That was the dumbest guy I've ever talked to.

[00:07:51]>> [music]