WEIGHT WEENIE TECH at the SHANGHAI BIKE SHOW - Day 3

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]What's up everyone? Welcome to day three of coverage of the Shanghai Bike Show brought to you by panapon.cc.

[00:00:06]This episode we've got a weight weenie extravaganza. If you like your lightweight stuff, this is the one for you. We've got crazy 4 kg disc brake builds. We've got overfast crazy lightweight everything Brian's 5.6 kg Kago Y1 RS. Uh we've got 32in American bikes which are sub 10 kilos. All this crazy stuff. Yeah, let's check it out.

[00:00:40]Okay, over on the OAST booth. Of obviously known for their super light parts. They were most famous for their carbon fiber through axles. We'll get a few updates coming along. So, first of all, all of the carbon through axles, they've slightly tweaked the layup and that's going to start coming through now 2 g lighter. So, on average from 29 g down to 27 g. Uh, but this here is part of their Y1 RS upgrade package. So, again, you guys saw they dropped this a while back, their battery holder for the Y1 RS. As stock, the battery holder for the Y1 RS is built into the bottle cage, and it's super overbuilt and super heavy and super ugly plastic. They replaced it with this carbon fiber little piece, and that means you're free to use any bottle cage you want and drop a serious bunch of weight. We sell so many of these on the website. I didn't think there were that many Y1 RS owners in the world, but we sell so many of these, it's pretty surprising. Then to continue the Y1 RS upgrade, they have their seat post for the Y1 RS. Stock one around 150 g. This one just 100 g. Shave off 50 g there.

[00:01:39]Also, the bolt that goes to the head tube of the Y1 RS cuz it's got the double bayet fork. They've made their own version of that. The stock one in a size M is 100 g. This one down to just 60 g. So 40% saving there as well. They also have a few other things in their finishing kit for the Yon RS. So a waterproof cover to replace the stock on which is a bit ugly. And then this little cover here to protect the bearings cuz you can actually see the bearings as standard from the side of the bike. So this goes in there and keeps some of the water out. Uh some little bar end plugs as well. This of course is not a Karago logo. It is just a a playing card club. So yeah, no trademark infringement there. Uh, and yeah, all of the updates for your Y1 RS.

[00:02:22]Okay, OAST, we saw they had their arrow cranks came out last year. We've been selling those on the site. Well, they now have this new bling bling version is what I'm calling it. Some super cool like weave in there. Looks like the kind of stuff you'd see on a Rolls-Royce. Uh, this thing. They're also going to put on the titanium bolt from this version on here to super bling it up. Uh this thing not on the market yet but coming to market soon is going to be quite a bit more expensive than the standard version because it's super hard to get the weave on this to be flat without any wrinkles.

[00:02:52]They make a whole bunch. A whole bunch will come out with the malls with wrinkles in. Uh-oh. Sorry. You don't pass QC. You get painted up black and get sold as a regular version. So yeah, these are going to be pretty expensive.

[00:03:03]Also talking of cranks, they have their super light cranks now. So everyone's coming out with COB and axle cranks and Orest are joining that too. this version that you see here like 240 some grams.

[00:03:14]Absolutely insane. You can see now there's no fitting here. It's just straight from the uh arm into the axle.

[00:03:20]Yeah, DUB standard. It looks like obviously you put some metal there to keep the tolerances right for the bearing seats. Uh yeah, of going absolutely crazy with the weight weeny a stuff. Also on the fast booth, the weight weeniness continues. This is their one by chain ring. I see it's got a narrow wide profile in there, but this is embedded with carbon silica because the teeth themselves are carbon. Uh obviously that's going to have a lot of wear. So some brands they kind of like cover it in a carbon silica covering.

[00:03:49]This actually has carbon silica in the resin in the prep prag uh to to make it more durable. How durable? I'm not quite sure. But another cool thing about this as well, they've got these covers for the chain ring bolts that come through here. So you screw in the chambering bolts from the other side and it's all a clean flush arrow design. And I can see these ones. We've got clubs, we've got hearts, we've got diamonds, we've got spades. So again, it's not just a colon logo. It is the playing cards on there.

[00:04:16]These are super cool. Again, with the carbon silicon in there, I guess it's not going to be cheap and only in one bite at the moment. Uh yeah, we'll see when these come to market. Okay, here's one that's going to make Rhino cry. Uh so he's been working on his Y1 RS. It's now apparently down to 5.6 kilos. We'll see if it actually is in a minute or not. Uh so yeah, he's been chipping away at the weight for a while. I guess things are getting lighter and lighter on here, but he's still got his arrow cranks on there and pedal power meters still two by all that stuff. Uh but yeah, let's have a look at the weight.

[00:04:49]Is it actually 5.6 kilo? So my beautiful assistant James, please come in. So we have a 1 kg uh calibration weight for the scale. So, first let's prove quote unquote that it is an accurate scale with a 1 kg weight. Uh James has put it into gym not kilos. So now it's still exactly one.

[00:05:10]>> Okay. So if we get closer to it, Barry, can we see that says 1 kilo?

[00:05:16]Are we focused? 1 kilo. Yes, focus.

[00:05:19]Sony, come on. Focused. Okay, good. So, okay, that's proof. And then without turning off the scales, I'm going have to put my mic down.

[00:05:44]>> So there you go. 5.6 kilos. No cheating done. Uh yeah, Rhino, what do you think?

[00:05:50]Of course, when you talk about weight weeny parts, you have to talk about bar tape overpass with a 19 gram bar tape in here. But usually, if you have super light bar tape, it means super fragile bar tape. So, we're going to see just how strong this is. They claim cuz obviously when you're wrapping bar tape, you want to pull it a bit tight and you don't want to break. So, let's have a look. So, once again, I have my beautiful assistant James. We've got the scales. We'll see how many kilos of force we can pull through this thing before we break it. So, we've got 2 kilos, 4 kilos, 6 kilos, 8 kilos, 9 kilos, 10 kilos, 11 kilos. I saw 11 kilos of force. Yeah, you're not going to pull more in 11 kilos of force on your bar tape when you're wrapping it.

[00:06:23]So, uh, yeah, I guess it is very strong B tape. Okay, over on the Java booth, you guys know me. I love small wheel bikes. I like folding bikes, but traditionally folding bikes been pretty heavy. Java are throwing that to the wind. This thing here, sub 7 kilos with disc brakes and with a whole bunch of gears on the back. This thing is wild.

[00:06:45]Yeah, this thing for a folding bike is absolutely insane. Even me with my no strength can one finger pick it up. Uh let's see how long I can hold this for.

[00:06:53]I don't know, a while. But yeah, super lightweight. I can see we've got carbon everywhere. We've got carbon handlebars, carbon stem, carbon frame. Uh I think the rear fork also carbon carbon uh tri spokes front and rear carbon uh crank arms. Yeah, just carbon absolutely everywhere. This thing is wild. So, sub 7 kilos with hydraulic disc brakes and electronic shifting. Absolutely crazy. I want one. Okay. Here on the Panapodium booth, we have Quinton from Aerob. You guys may have seen these guys or heard of these guys. Sorry, I'm laughing cuz my model's puring himself. Uh they make uh airbags for your bike. So, Quinton's going to give us a demonstration >> using using our willing willing demonstration partner.

[00:07:38]>> It was the consent. I'm sorry. Um, yeah, this is going to be interesting, boys and girls.

[00:07:44]>> So, basically, we put the bottle in and close it, right? So, it really is that simple to load. You just put a CO2 bottle in it. Now, the system that we have here runs on a timer as opposed to running on sensors. So, when I close the clip on the front, you're going to have about somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds before it fires. So all we do really once it's in, the airbag sits behind the braces, the tube sits on the back, and effectively this would just be a fit lock click on the front. Yeah. So I close it, the light goes on, and about 10 seconds from now it fires. Film him, not me.

[00:08:21]Bang.

[00:08:24]>> Okay, I'm still alive. There we go.

[00:08:26]>> Feel the pressure though. Feel the pressure on the tubes. How do you How do you feel?

[00:08:30]>> I feel relieved that I didn't break any bones. Yeah. All the protection on the back and the shoulders. I mean >> down here >> your pelvis.

[00:08:39]>> Hey, does does this make my butt look big?

[00:08:41]>> No, it doesn't make your butt look big.

[00:08:42]And it's also >> There's some strange sounds coming out.

[00:08:45]>> Now, it's also designed It's also designed to go flat by itself. So, over the period of about 2 minutes, it will go flat. You can make it go to flat faster by just pulling the cartridge out obviously.

[00:08:53]>> But the whole idea is that it now repacks itself. When it shrinks down again, it's back to the size it was before.

[00:08:59]>> So, we could wait 2 minutes or I can just show you. If you take the bottle out. So you've had your accident, you got back on your bike, you're alive.

[00:09:06]>> Alive is good.

[00:09:07]>> Yeah. How's your pulse rate doing?

[00:09:09]>> Uh, let's see.

[00:09:10]>> You take the bottle out. Obviously, like you can hear it deflating. But what is really cool is if you look at the front of the bibs now again, it's basically returned to normal. You now have bib shorts like they were before you fired.

[00:09:23]Yeah.

[00:09:24]>> How do you feel? Violated, but in a good way. Again, if you were going down in the crash again, like if I don't break stuff because I'm wearing this, it's 100% worth it.

[00:09:35]>> Yeah. I mean, that's back to normal.

[00:09:36]It's it's red. It's back to normal. You can just reuse it again. Put a bottle in. It's ready to go. It hasn't damaged the clothing. Those bib shorts have been fired probably 50 times in terms of demos. And there is no damage. It literally doesn't harm the clothing.

[00:09:48]>> Emotional damage maybe, but uh >> obviously psychologically you're going to sit upright in bed tonight and think, "Oh my god." Anyway, >> and did you watch the Bib Shaws between those 50 times? M.

[00:10:01]Did you notice brown stains when you put them on?

[00:10:03]>> I wasn't looking. I wasn't looking. I just closed my eyes through most of this process.

[00:10:06]>> Quinton, absolute legend. So, it's coming to market when you say today.

[00:10:10]>> Launched yesterday in in Europe. It went on sale 1 of May in Europe. Um, we're launching it in time for the Jurro. So, you'll see it on TV around the Jurro uh on the rest day. Day 18, I think it is.

[00:10:20]Uh, no, the 18th is the first rest day.

[00:10:23]Second rest day. You'll see it live on TV, but it's for sale in Europe right now. We just Yeah, we just you just need clothing that it fits.

[00:10:30]>> Again, a very noble cause. You are going to save someone's life one day. As I said off camera, uh retail price is for the for the kit.

[00:10:37]>> It's retailing at around €680. But the important thing to remember is the airbag is separate from the clothing.

[00:10:41]So, you only ever have one airbag. You can have a jacket, a gouet, bib shorts, a backpack. The airbag can be literally used in any article of clothing that you have. You can ride during the week to work in a jacket and on the weekend put it in your bib shorts and go gravel racing. So the airbag itself is completely separate from the clothing that you put it in and the clothing that you put it in. To be honest, I can confirm Azos are designing and making clothing. Castelli are designing and making clothing. Santini are designing and making clothing. Gobic are designing and making clothing and Nolini have literally launched bib shorts available.

[00:11:12]So the major clothing manufacturers are already designing clothing that this fits.

[00:11:17]>> Very cool. And uh I love the smell of cordite in the morning. It smells like victory. Or maybe that might be what came out of his ass. I'm not sure.

[00:11:23]>> It is. That's a Yeah, that's a It's hard to tell. I'm going to stay out of it, man.

[00:11:27]>> Very good. Thank you very much for your time again. Good luck with it.

[00:11:29]>> Thank you.

[00:11:30]>> Okay, here at the Big Rock booth, or outside the Big Rock booth, I should say. You guys know we sell the Big Rock stuff, the Aerobike and the road bike over on the website. Big Rock, very fast to develop stuff all the time and keep up with the trends. So, this is their 32in cross country bike. But Big Rock, one thing they always do well is make geometry that's friendly to shorter riders. So you guys have seen their their climbing bike. It comes in really small sizes uh with really like sloping top tubes and uh uh and that means you have more seat posts thickening out for a more comfortable ride. And they've brought the same philosophy to the 32-in thing. So obviously 32 in roll faster, the angle of attack, all this stuff. But for shorter riders, it really can be like it's just too big. So Big Rock are trying to solve that problem with this.

[00:12:13]So, the frame itself, as you can see, is basically the smallest you can get frame around these 32-in wheels, but also the handlebar is super interesting. So, this handlebar setup is their own handlebar.

[00:12:24]And, uh, basically, they've designed it so this puts the handlebars down to the height of like a 29iner, basically. So, yeah, if you're a shorter rider, but you still want the advantages of riding 32s, uh, Big Rock have you covered. Also, the wheels. Yeah, Big Rock's got the 32-in mountain bike wheels. this thing here.

[00:12:41]Uh, for me, I just took this for a little cruise around the car park. You know, I'm not a mountain bike guy, and this isn't a place to really test a mountain bike, but immediately notice the weight of these tires. Just 32-in tires are so much heavier. This thing just takes a while to get going. The bike itself is not that heavy for a cross country bike. Uh, I'll ask how heavy it is. So, this bike, as you see here, is only 10 kilos, but because there's just so much weight in the tires, it just boom boom. Took a while to get going. And then just I was trying to like dodge some little things on the road and stuff. and the turning circle.

[00:13:09]It's definitely not as nimble as like a 29iner or a 26 and a half, but uh apparently it's the future. So yeah, we got to just uh suck up and see, right?

[00:13:17]But uh yeah, we'll see what else we got on the big rock booth. Okay, I'm here with also on the big rock booth. You guys know me, I'm a sucker for superite builds. This one here just 4.62 kilos as you see it here with pedals, with a bottle cage, uh all that stuff. Uh there's a few things that you may or may not disagree with. We've got no bar tape on there. We're only one by some things like this, but still a 4.62 kilo build is always impressive. There's also a few grams they could save here with these uh very long uh uh valves is the word I'm looking for. But yeah, I like my super light stuff. This is super light. Uh yeah, light bikes rip. Okay, over on the Seeker booth. This is their TT bike, the Koy TT. Uh, seems like every few years there's trends or things cuz the other day we saw the in color TT bike, now we have the Seeker TT bike. Uh, this one also, Aero Gains, Aerero Max, all that stuff. There's some feats on this that I've never seen on a a bike before. So, apparently they're working with uh an Italian aerodynamics consultancy company who also do some work in F1 and in Lemon and stuff like this. But the things on this that struck my mind. Number one, on the inside of the fork, they got these really small vortex generators, which apparently helps to clean up the air flow going in here above the tire, cuz obviously the tires coming this way as you're going forwards, and the air is going this way. So, this area is always really messy. So, they've got these little vortex generators in here to uh do what vortex generators do, which I guess is generate vortexes. And then down here, we actually have some tiny tiny golf ball dimples just in this one small region around here. uh which again probably working together with these vortex generators or something to see what happens here. So uh yeah, two little features that I've never seen on a bike before. Uh combined with that all the other stuff that you expect to see on an aero bike like a deep uh profiles and some uh uh uh shrouding for their um what's it called? Storage stuff there.

[00:15:12]And of course it's a seeker, so it's got to have the wind eye back there or apparently this is the near final version, not the final final version.

[00:15:19]Uh, but yeah, as I said, just some features that I've never seen on a bike before. Really caught my eye. Okay, also on the Sea booth, we have their new gravel bike. I believe this is called the X Aero GR, their Aero gravel bike.

[00:15:31]As I've been saying all the videos this week, gravel's going in a bunch of different directions, including Aero Gravel, and this is Seeker's attempt at it. I actually covered this video in my day two video, but I've not even finished editing that video yet. So, let's cover it again here. Probably quicker. Uh, so yeah, this is the Aero frame. Obviously got the wind eye on there because that's what Seeker does.

[00:15:49]One interesting thing of this, if I can remember how to do it. Yeah, we've got these magnetic bottles with like the cage built into the bottle and that just magnetically goes on there. So, we've got one and two here, but then also under here, this whole thing, if I can do it onehanded. Yeah, this is probably the cleanest solution I've seen for inframe storage on a Chinese bike so far. Uh, super clean, super easy to go on and off. One interesting thing about this as well, the front bottle and the rear bottle actually different shapes.

[00:16:14]Uh, so opening all the tooling for this and stuff is not cheap. I can tell you that for sure. Uh, I can't remember the exact tire clearance. It's something like 56 at the front and 52 at the rear.

[00:16:24]Again, someone corrects me in the comments if I'm wrong. But one thing about this, it's arrow. It's pretty heavy. So, the frame itself unpainted is like 1,100 and change. So, with the paint, especially a beautiful paint job like this, maybe 1,200 1,300 g.

[00:16:40]Obviously, you need to sometimes choose between arrow and lightweight. Uh, and yeah, so if you're going to have this arrow, not going to be so lightweight.

[00:16:49]Also, not cheap. I think frame set is like $3,500 or something. But, uh, it is a stunning bike. I do like the paint job. Uh, you know, me, I always like a bit of pink.

[00:17:00]And, uh, yeah, this is the Seeker's new gravel bike. What is panipodium.cc is my website that me and my team, we go around shows like this. We go around the whole of China and we cherrypick the best of the best of the best of the Chinese products. put them on our website, give good service to you guys so you can buy them direct to your door back at home. Uh prepaid tariffs, prepaid taxes, prepaid shipping, all that stuff. You don't have to worry about anything. Now, also happens to be our third birthday. So, we're having a sale for our birthday. Go check that out on the website. And we're also doing a giveaway. So, every day we're giving away $500 of vouchers to the website.

[00:17:35]We're doing for 4 days. So, a total of $2,000 of giveaway. It'll be the number one pinned comment down below. So, go click on there to enter the giveaway.

[00:17:42]you can win yourself some money and then buy some of this cool stuff that you're seeing on the show. So, uh yeah, back to the show. I love a good paint job. You guys know me. I don't know anything about mountain bikes, but this paint job caught my eye. Apparently raced by uh the cross country team, women's team, the world champions of the UCI, or at least they entered the UCI race, let's say. Uh yeah, cool paint job on this one. The Trinks factory team paint job.

[00:18:06]Uh very cool color combination. Yeah, don't know much about it, but uh what a paint job. Okay, over here on the podis booth, they have their new aerobike. Uh, of course, it's got a double bane head tube cuz every aerobike does these days.

[00:18:18]What's interesting about this, this is a team edition of the St. George Conti team. Those guys race in China a lot.

[00:18:25]Uh, they've actually been riding partners for 10 years as well. So, lots of these Conti teams, uh, when they're working with the Chinese brands, they chop and change. They change the sponsors like every 2 years. You see them riding this brand and then that brand and that brand and it's just like a revolving door of brands and teams.

[00:18:41]But these guys St. George and Portland has been working together for 10 years which you know really uh proves that you know it must be a good relationship and they must be happy with the bike. I can see this one also has the Mene QED group set. Uh that's what partners race on. I guess Mine used them as a testing round getting ready for when they launch the group set overseas. So, it's good to know that when it does launch, it will be have been tested and raced raced by the St. George team when it does come out. They're using their SCM wheels as well. But yeah, highlight I guess is just this frame. In my opinion, this is one of the nicer looking double bane head tube uh frames. Doesn't look as crazy as something like the in color or whatever, but it does look like a very tidy thing. And yeah, this is the generation 4 of the Spark Evo in a size medium. Again, black paint job and pink.

[00:19:28]You guys know me. You put pink on a bike, I'm there. First well-dressed man at the show, Mr. Gary Fischer.

[00:19:35]Obviously, industry legend. Uh, you've been seeing the industry develop over the past a few years.

[00:19:41]>> Oh, 50.

[00:19:42]>> 50. There we go. What's your take on the the rise of the chain st for the Shanghai Buckser and all of that stuff?

[00:19:47]>> Well, what is really most impress impressive is the enthusiasts. There's a ton here. I mean, old guys, old ladies, young, beautiful women. Holy mackerel.

[00:20:01]You know, the people that have come into the sport in this country is really amazing. And you know, the cars don't drive that fast here because everything's controlled as can be. You know, there are cameras everywhere. So, if you speed, you get caught, right?

[00:20:19]>> People don't speed. So, I talk to people, is it safer here? They say, "Yeah, it's pretty safe on the road here." You know, that's what killed road racing in the United States is just like, let's go graveling, you know. So, it's a ton of potential here.

[00:20:35]>> Very cool. How about you? What are you working on? What to look forward from uh from your little setup and company going on? What what's what's coming soon?

[00:20:43]>> I'm making a comeback. I got a slightly different name, Gary Fisher Design, and different logos, different things. and I've been hooking up with some incredible manufacturers, you know, real high-tech stuff. And then at the same time, um, we'll cut the price in half, right? There, you know.

[00:21:01]>> Cool. We look forward to seeing what comes out.

[00:21:03]>> Enjoy the rest of the show.

[00:21:06]>> Here we go.

[00:21:07]>> Check. Mic check.

[00:21:10]Okay, and that is about a wrap for day three of the Shanghai Bike Show. Uh, our giveaway winner for yesterday was Sebastian from St. Louis, Missouri. So, Sebastian, you've just won yourself $500 worth of vouchers for panipom.cc. We will get in touch. Uh, yeah, day three.

[00:21:27]Absolutely crazy. There's still way more stuff to cover. Running Yeah, I'm running out of energy, running out of time, but uh, let's sit down and have a chat with the boys.

[00:21:37]Okay, day three of the Shanghai Bike Show coming up for a rap. Uh end of yesterday I thought like the show was like eh fizzing out but today I've gone to a few more halls. This place is absolutely popping. It's like today was the first time I've left this hall. Wow.

[00:21:53]Like again like I was like skeptical that this place is growing and growing but it is definitely not slowing down.

[00:21:59]And that's a that's a theme I've been hearing these days like of all the trade shows many seem to be on a downward trend. This place is is going up and up and up. So we've been having a crazy day at booth. We've had some very very interesting people walking in and out the booth. We had James being a crash test dummy for the new uh airbag system for the bicycles and stuff. All sorts of crazy stuff going on. Uh but yeah, I I want to know what you guys have been seeing. Let's start with the uh the boys who weren't here yesterday. Chris, uh what have you Oh, technical difficulties. Chris, what have you what's the best thing you seen today?

[00:22:30]>> No, you are right. I mean, I obviously haven't been here before, but like the energy is maintained. I thought there would be a bit of a drop off, but it it's certainly not the case. The numbers are a little bit less than they were on day one, but but certainly just the energy. Um, in terms of actual products and things we saw, I think the standout for me was going to the number six wheels booth. So, a little backstory, I rode those wheels. I rode both the gravel wheels and the I think the 5055s probably 18 months ago. Um, and good good solid set of wheels, but have a had a little bit of crosswind instability.

[00:23:09]Yeah, some we had some speed wobbles basically. I had some speed wobbles. Um, and yeah, so obviously went back today and it was really interesting talking to Ken. He's got a whole new set of wheels.

[00:23:22]Um, three different uh, wheel set depths. Uh, but the the interesting part was he's completely redesigned that front wheel. he's removed spokes from it and and reduced the stiffness of it because in his testing he managed to find that it was the stiffness of that front wheel that was causing some of that instability. So obviously I haven't ridden them taking his word for it but it was it was kind of weird to hear a not weird but it was almost reassuring to sit there and hear a brand say we took on your feedback and you know what we've completely redesigned this product and we fully stand behind it now.

[00:23:58]>> It balances them too as well. They said like the imbalance he was saying the imbalance in the previous wheel also caused a bit of that tendency as well.

[00:24:05]So he's balancing them. Can >> can you imagine a big main brand wheel brand going okay Mr. YouTuber we hear your feedback and we'll actually change our product based on it.

[00:24:14]>> No. No. Uh certainly not. But obviously the scale is a is a lot is a lot lower here. Um but yeah it was it was reassuring to to hear and hopefully get a chance to to test them out at some point. Yeah, I love and again you've got this feedback loop but it works a lot better because let's say a western brand even if they did listen to you about your advice now that's going to take three years so it becomes a product whereas with the with the brands here most of them you give them feedback today even on Shane stuff with firmware updates even quicker but you give feedback today and a new product comes within months even and so it's a it's a double-sided coin right so it's good when the product's bad it gets improved quickly but if you just brought the product last month it gets It's outdated pretty quickly, too. So, it is a It's not all, you know, rainbows and unicorns.

[00:25:00]>> But, I guess in the in the case of the number six wheels, that's kind of even more impressive in a way. The full redesign of the front wheel, that's a whole different set of molds. All the research and development in that because I mean, you'll know as well, you've got your own wheel set. Molds are not cheap to produce. So, that's even Yeah. more impressive >> for sure. Mr. Coyle, what?

[00:25:19]>> Uh, so I was impressed. fall all the way over a number E4. Actually, it's behind me. L2 were on there. impressed because I test that again 18 months ago and it stopped working and it had a big >> uh I didn't really like the feeling of the hoods and uh they've already updated it and looks like they've done a pretty good job to the point where when I was testing it you were sort of like you can I'll give it to you to test but we're not really confident not really recommend it whereas now you're like yeah we stock it and we stand behind it and there's Heaps of updates. Even the brakes, the previous brakes were I don't know the name of the standards that my thing, but they had to attach with this different adapter and it was all a bit clunky. Whereas new brake cal new um brake calipers um the buttons feel really nice and they have the ERX which is the top spec, but they also have the ER9 which is a the lower level a bit cheaper and they've got a gravel version and I just think they're yeah doing good things. And to see that the iteration on that was pretty impressive. given that you're like you're standing behind it to sell it.

[00:26:30]I'm like, "Okay, cool. There's a there's another electronic group set option on Panda Podium that you stand behind that comes in like it's not it's not cheap, but slightly undercuts some of the others. I like it." Yeah, it's good.

[00:26:43]>> Yeah, for sure. Obviously, talking about group sets, Trace is obviously a guy who puts lots of things through the ringers and through testers, but yeah, L2 early days. Uh I made videos dissing L2. you.

[00:26:54]>> Yeah, back back in the day a few years back they were a little bit the electronic one the first edition had a few little teething problems for sure >> but again if and again if you want to play catchup like so Shimano will test something internally for years before it comes out but let's even say they have 100 sets being tested you know at maximum each guy is doing like a,000ks a month it's limited L2 okay that was selling semi finished products to customers but can you imagine the amount of feedback you get from that the millions and millions and millions of comments that get written and it's allowed them to really play catch-up So the brand took a hit for it in the early days. Uh but now I think it has really let them catch up.

[00:27:29]>> Yeah, the rate of iteration with L2 is so rapid. You blink and there's a new version of that group set out. Little bit little bit uh confusing for the end customer, but I mean I mentioned this in my video. They're really much more geared from what I can see at least to deal with distributors, OEM brands and provide them the group sets they need rather than the groups as individual consumers might might not necessarily might not might necessarily want. So I think that's that's something to bear in mind or at least that's what I witnessed at the L2 booth for sure.

[00:27:58]>> Yeah, definitely. I think group sets is uh I think group sets and tires are the two last pieces of the puzzle for the Chinese brands. Like tires I I don't know why Chinese brands aren't getting on top of tires. Like uh in my naive brain, tires shouldn't be that hard.

[00:28:13]Like the chemistry is chemistry. Like how hard how hard can it be? Uh but I I feel like production costs once you've got a big factory that can make tires.

[00:28:22]To make a tire, once you've got the chemistry down, it must be like pennies on the dollar. Plus, I mean, there should be so much margin in that when you've got GP5000s like a 100red quid a pop. Like surely you could knock out a relatively decent like 80 90% of the way for much much cheaper. So I'm with you.

[00:28:37]I think tires are maybe the next little hurdle to to jump over.

[00:28:41]>> Tires I think in general best upgrade for the money. Like >> no no no two ways about it. We we've seen this comment a few times like okay that's that's good guys but is there any competition out there for for for the the GP 5000? We did have an active look today. Uh we we got you can see the tread pattern. They're trying to be They're getting inspired by the GP 5000, but just the feels, it's just not there. You I mean, just looking at it and the sizes are wrong. Like one of them was like a 25 and it's like, "Oh, this this model only goes to a 25." So, yeah.

[00:29:19]>> Yeah. There's one brand that which I think has hope called Arison. Uh so, back in the day, we're giving them away as free tires with like four sports wheels or something. And this one consumer was like ended up stra like he was doing like 20,000ks a year or whatever like he was a hardcore rider and he was like oh those tires that you gave for free kind of buy a bunch more and he's like oh they're they roll really well they seem to be super sticky around the corners etc etc and and now we do sell the arrisons on the website like I've ridden them myself but again I think like tires it's such a hard thing to prove like the rolling resistance stuff unless you've got the rolling resistance rig. Uh but yeah the arrison tires I think have potential but we we'll see what's been going on. Uh Shane, I don't think I've seen you all day, mate. What have you What have you been seeing today? What's what's been what's been in your wheelhouseing in meetings? But to back up what you guys are saying. Uh I've met with uh two companies that I've reviewed power meters for in the last 3 months, so they could have been very awkward conversations again, but they weren't.

[00:30:13]Um I just had validation that what I'm doing is correct cuz they admitted what I'm saying is true and correct. Um and they admit they're working harder on it.

[00:30:22]Um and we'll see new firmwares. Some of them might not be able to be fixing firmwares, but anyway, it it's good to see them take on feedback, acknowledge it, and address it very, very quickly.

[00:30:33]Some of them almost too quickly. Um, so stay tuned. We'll see some more stuff.

[00:30:37]But, um, other than that, just wandering the halls a lot slower today. Day one, flat out walking. Day two, a little bit slower. Today, and then tomorrow, it's just you just wander slowly and you see twice as many things. I'm you just miss everything and you actually catch up with more people because you're not just barreling straight down. So yeah, the numbers here are I think the numbers from day two and day three are a lot higher than last year. Last year the halls were very easy to walk around.

[00:31:01]Even today there's still there's choke points which we haven't seen. So there's still a lot of people hanging around which is good to see. Yeah, day one seems to have lots of people people who are just coming in to claim free gifts and stuff. Like lots of the booths do giveaways like take a photo of my booth and send to social media. I'll give you a free thing. And there was people who blatantly never ridden the bike in their life like queuing up for 10 minutes to get like a key ring and stuff and that was like clogging the booth and stuff.

[00:31:23]The past 2 days that's been gone. It's got a lot more interesting. Uh and yeah, the kind of people I've seen walking through this booth and the halls in general has been super super interesting.

[00:31:32]>> Can I ask you a question then? Is it more uh not socially acceptable, but is it is there more of a understanding around because we're talking about this thing about oh they're iterating so quickly and there's new products and they're listening to us and it all sounds great but doesn't that mean there's problems in the first place and so my kind of thing is because I'm sure people listen to this and go well so so hang on there's there's there's stuff being launched that still have all these issues and it's up to YouTubers to find these mistakes like is that All right. Like, do people just accept that more here? I feel like in the West, we would we would almost blacklist something a lot quicker. Like L2, oh no, that was that thing that Jesse reviewed.

[00:32:19]That's crap. I won't touch it. And that's it. Whereas here, maybe it's like, oh, this is the new version. Let's try that. Uh, great question. Uh, I don't think I I don't think like I have an opinion, but like everyone has an opinion. I jumped on the fact when you said YouTubers because talking to Jesse before, I think we live and breathe this stuff. We're not just YouTubers. So, if you go for a ride, it's when the cameras aren't even on, we're still using the equipment. When you get up in the morning, what are you thinking about?

[00:32:47]It's not as if I've got to go to work.

[00:32:48]It's, oh, I've got this new thing to test. I want to go ride. It's It's what you do. You live and breathe this I do with power meters. I dream about power meters. Not good dreams, but some of And some some some of the some of the like some of the people work for these companies.

[00:33:04]They work for the companies and I mean so we're not just YouTubers. I don't see that I use that term as a bit of a derogatory thing where like just a YouTuber found this problem and and I'm talking about you know things that I find. But yeah, we get so in our scope of testing I think is the probably better way of of saying it. You guys can ride you guys can ride really fast. So you put put equipment through testing that they don't do over here.

[00:33:26]Like if you were to say, "How does this wheel descend around here?" No one would know. There's no big descents. We've got those. How does it go on gravel? How does it go at 300 watts, 400 watts, 500, 600 watts, 1,200 watt sprints? We're doing that because we we're cyclists before we're YouTubers. So, I think that's it's good on our behalf. It's not good for some products. Um, but I think our scope is a little broader for the testing. Um, and that's where we can help out. I think it's called helping out sometimes.

[00:33:52]>> Yeah. So, of course, I'm biased because I'm one of us, but again, just YouTubers, I think like so Shane, in the whole world, I don't think anyone has tested more power meters and trainers than you. Like, regard >> regardless of whether or not you're a YouTuber, uh, Trace, cheap group sets, I don't think anyone has tested and installed as many as you, regardless of YouTuber. Me, Chinese wheel sets, I don't think anyone has ridden as many as me. regardless of whether or not you're a YouTuber. These two like a a blend of being fast and also I think your guys advantage is you ride a lot of the western stuff but also ride the Chinese stuff. Like lots of the guys on YouTube, they're either very Chinese or very western. So some of them are very western and occasionally do one Chinese thing and it's not really enough to get a fair sample. Or some of them are like very Chinese and every so often they're like, "Oh, I I rode a rim brake TCR 5 years ago, so I know western bikes."

[00:34:44]Whereas I think your guys value is that you guys both ride a bunch of modern western and and uh eastern bikes as it were. So while we are just YouTubers, I think in our relative fields, we are very wellressed.

[00:34:58]>> I guess I've thought about I mean you mentioned the L2 group sets. I've obviously thought about this a lot over the years, especially when I was like mulling over the first iteration of the electronic group set because it had problems, right? And I think one of the kind of hypothesis is the hypothesis that I came to the conclusions was that when you've got massive brand Shimano ShraMM they got millions and millions of dollars to develop R&D and they can put those group sets through like many years of testing in some cases before releasing to market and then they're going to stick with that particular family for like four years for Jira Ace and then they'll release the next version. I think with smaller companies like L2, they don't have that capital to like invest in R&D for such such a long time. They need to see that return on investment much quicker. So they I I think in some cases obviously I have no idea but it feels like a slight rush to market occasionally which maybe is just the price you pay for being able to have that rapid innovation and to have these lower price group sets because if it was the same price as Jura Ace as your Sham Red you'd expect uh much much better reliability better customer service etc. But I don't know. I feel like that's the trade-off.

[00:36:09]>> Exactly what I was going to say. We give them the benefit of the doubt and the second third chance because they're cheaper and we're going to save money.

[00:36:17]And so I I think that's that that's to me that's the answer. I think eventually that that will wear off. That will start to wear off especially for the more established brands and you start to go, "Guys, come on. You're selling enough units now. Should be able to, you know, put more money in." But I think yeah, for the time being, look, if we have to go through some teething teething issues to end up getting a working product that's cheaper, like if one of these $100, $50 Spider power meters ends up working, then everyone's happy. And if it's just been a, you know, couple of crappy years to get there, well, you know, we still got there.

[00:36:54]>> I agree. And like so I think whether the brands do it themselves or whether it's something that we project onto them. I think we think of lots of these brands as a scrappy underdog and everyone likes a David versus Goliath story. But when this brand is no longer David and he like he's a big boy and he's got big money and stuff like you're not going to keep forgive him game forever, right? So yeah, it's going to be interesting and the court of public opinion is the is the worst court of them all. Uh any any other axes to grind? who's got an axe to grind over the past few days.

[00:37:29]>> Well, I guess I've got I guess I've got a question. I mean, I was at the Ride Now booth um and I saw they have a carbon ceramic disc rotor on offer. I've tested the car a set of carbon ceramic rotors quite extensively from this company, Carbonova. I mean, you guys are really into the the details and I feel like you'd have an opinion on this carbon ceramic disc rotors. What do you reckon? Because obviously steel perfectly fine, robust, easy to maintain, no problems. I mean, carbon ceramic, we've seen it on F1, it's on GT3 light cars. What do you reckon?

[00:38:02]>> I've literally never heard of carbon ceramic disroers.

[00:38:05]>> I saw your one review of it.

[00:38:08]>> So, I I assume they're lighter. Yeah, much lighter. I mean, they had a >> uh the one I don't know.

[00:38:14]>> The one the 160 rotor was uh just under 60 g. The 140 was just over 50 gram which is bonkers.

[00:38:22]>> Well, that's sixbolt. So, you need to add the weight of the >> Yeah, I did mention it sixbolt. But >> I always my sort of thing with a lot of these things is there are places to save weight and there are places not to save weight. The bit that stops your bike, not a place to save weight. Yeah, we we have two different thought processes.

[00:38:38]I'm just like get the weight down and figure out not where I want to be. Uh yeah, when I'm relying on that brake, >> you want to prototype for them.

[00:38:46]>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:38:47]>> Around here. See, if we're the first one going down a hill Oh, yeah. No.

[00:38:51]>> Yeah. Just just out of like the whole weight weeny thing. It's interesting just walking around like weight weeny stuff's gone. Well, at least to draw you in. What seems to be the thing on the stall is the big arrowike. Like get it get the big showpiece arrow bike out the front. Oh, what's in this stall?

[00:39:09]They're not doing the Oh, this is 4 kilos. Come in and have a look. I mean, why am I looking at you? I'll just talk over here. Um yeah that just that that that split seems to have have occurred whereas like arrow is what the arrow is the look it feels for the people. I feel like it being a weight weenie is a bit more accessible in many ways because with arrow I mean you guys say you can't see arrow it need to have like the testing testing testing um but weight weenie it's like this product is lighter than this product like boom I want the lighter one so I feel like there's an accessibility to it. I freaking love a weight weenie build, especially if I can get it on a budget. I mean, the amount of cheap crank sets that I've tried is pretty bonkers. Um, but yeah, I don't know. That's that to me is still the massive appeal is that it's just available to anyone to really quickly understand this product's lighter, therefore better maybe. I don't know. I think it's more accessible than say Arrow. H >> how many handlebars have you had fail?

[00:40:07]>> Oh god. I mean handlebars uh maybe like three set, three or four sets. But I mean, I go cheap cheap ones.

[00:40:15]>> Yeah. Again, there's some things you want to go to cheaper.

[00:40:18]>> But if you look at that brand there, Zenith, they got their BRS bikes out the front. They're they're put big fat arrow bikes out the front to get you in.

[00:40:26]They're not putting out a thin shaped sign with 4 kilo bike to get you in. It just feels like the the the narrative amongst the punters here is is the look of error rather than the weight we buy.

[00:40:38]I buy it.

[00:40:38]>> Yeah. Did you see the 3D printed titanium bike?

[00:40:41]>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Did you have guys have a look?

[00:40:44]>> Yeah.

[00:40:44]>> No.

[00:40:47]>> Chris is allergic to metal bikes.

[00:40:49]>> He's got the strange thing. He can only ride carbon.

[00:40:52]>> Otherwise, bad things start happening.

[00:40:53]Things happen.

[00:40:54]>> Yeah. No, I didn't see it. Didn't see it. I'll be honest.

[00:40:56]>> It's not bad.

[00:40:58]>> It's not cheap.

[00:40:58]>> Very good.

[00:40:59]>> It's not bad. Cool.

[00:41:00]>> Sure. Sure.

[00:41:01]>> Get a car bike.

[00:41:03]>> The one with the dog the bike sticker on it.

[00:41:04]>> Who put that on there?

[00:41:05]>> Down there.

[00:41:06]>> Don't know who Don't know who did that.

[00:41:08]>> Any more axes to grind before we go? Oh, we're about to go race each other on uh >> indeed >> on trainers. I Yeah, I know.

[00:41:15]>> I'm caring protocol a little bit earlier on. So, uh >> the fear it's Oz versus uh UK. I'll be honest.

[00:41:24]>> We're going to get absolutely we're going to get smoked. We're going to get smoked.

[00:41:28]>> I'm too nervous.

[00:41:28]>> I'm going to enter my weight as 6 kilos.

[00:41:30]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:31]>> Yeah.

[00:41:32]>> Uh what what's the tactics?

[00:41:34]>> Uh I don't know. Is there a cafe stop?

[00:41:37]>> Uh >> we can't tell them we've got tactics.

[00:41:39]What's your favorite tactics?

[00:41:41]>> What's your favorite cafe cupcake?

[00:41:42]>> It's got a tactic. You'll discuss it before.

[00:41:44]>> This is the mind games. We'll let you think it's our tactics. Come on.

[00:41:48]>> No, you'll see.

[00:41:50]>> You'll see. We've >> go for the Go for the thing. Okay. Okay.

[00:41:54]>> The mistake you're making is thinking we're teammates.

[00:41:57]>> Oh, that's the opposite of what we are.

[00:42:00]I'm only here not to lose to him.

[00:42:02]>> Okay. Okay. So, we're just going to let you fight it out and then uh then Luke's going to launch it with >> gas it and then just for vomit at the end, I think.

[00:42:09]>> Awesome. Let's do this. Let's weigh in.

[00:42:12]>> Clean up on the machine booth.

[00:42:14]>> We'll weigh in and then switch trainers halfway through. So, you ride my way, I'll ride your way.

[00:42:18]>> Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

[00:42:19]>> That's the plan. Uh anyway, this has been a monster mammoth lung video, so let's wrap it up here again. We're going to go turn ourselves inside out on the machine stand. Uh yeah, gentlemen, last tomorrow is the last day. So, uh, Jio, as they say in China and, uh, yeah, thanks for your time as usual. And, uh, this guy has videos about tech. This guy has videos about affordable things. And these guys have videos about metal bikes.

[00:42:43]>> Yes.

[00:42:44]>> Yeah.

[00:42:44]>> And how good they are.

[00:42:46]>> And I have videos about old grumpy men.

[00:42:48]Sorry. Sorry.

[00:42:51]>> Sorry. Uh, yeah. I'll see you in tomorrow's video. Chowo. Chowo. Good job.