Are Women Really Each Other's Worst Enemies? The Truth About Female Competition | S02E008

[00:00:00]Are women their own worst enemies? Have you ever [snorts] felt unsupported by another woman?

[00:00:06]>> No. I have [music] gotten the most support from women >> in my personal life, career life.

[00:00:14]I have not experienced difficult [music] bosses. I have not experienced a woman trying to pull me down. Actually, my first job, a woman connected me to another woman. I got the job.

[00:00:26]>> Okay. Do we have any real examples of gatekeeping or are we sometimes misinterpreting tough guidance as [music] a lack of support? And uh do older women support younger women? One of the things um [music] that I keep telling like my mom especially when we were living in Zimma, she had older women. The only reason I feel like especially like after the separation with my dad like women rallied around us like much older women like until I've gotten like until I've become an adult and now I've started doing work stuff is when I've picked up on that >> women not like supporting people. Would you seek out a younger like let's say a younger girl or whatever in our circle um maybe we met in an event or whatever and be like I would want to pour into another young girl. Right now I am hesitant [music] to seek out a younger girl just because I am very aware of propagating toxicity that I have experienced.

[00:01:31]>> Okay. I don't want to pass on what I may have picked up. Um are women harder on women than men are?

[00:01:41]So who places more pressure on women regarding appearance, relationships, motherhood, aging and success? [music] >> [music] [music] >> Down.

[00:02:09][music] Wow.

[00:02:17]>> [music] >> Hello.

[00:02:18]>> We are so unserious honestly this this season.

[00:02:21]>> Let's keep it like this. Let's keep it like this. And guys like, subscribe.

[00:02:28]>> Let me tell you necessary >> on a weekend >> and it was even beginning to rain.

[00:02:39]1000. Of course, it's not your responsibility, but patroniz, >> you know. I hope you're doing good. I hope you are having a nice Sunday.

[00:02:54]Welcome to another episode of the Chilish Board with Rispa, Nelly, >> and Suzan.

[00:03:01]>> Yay.

[00:03:02]>> Yay.

[00:03:02]>> So, today we are talking about women.

[00:03:07]Who are we talking about?

[00:03:08]>> Women.

[00:03:09]>> And the fact that they might be their own worst enemies. And what >> are they? [laughter] >> That that is the question.

[00:03:20]>> Are they >> are women their own worst enemies? Let's talk about this.

[00:03:25]>> Yeah.

[00:03:25]>> So, I'm going to start with some hot takes. Okay.

[00:03:30]>> Have you ever felt unsupported by another woman?

[00:03:34]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:03:38]Yeah.

[00:03:40]>> No. Hey, tell us which >> women do you interact with other than us? [laughter] >> A lot actually.

[00:03:48]>> On the flip for this particular episode, >> I have gotten the most support from women.

[00:03:54]>> In my personal life, career life, >> I have not experienced difficult bosses.

[00:04:02]I have not experienced a woman trying to pull me down. M >> actually my first job a woman connected me to another woman. I got the job.

[00:04:10]>> Okay.

[00:04:10]>> My second job a woman connected sent my CV to that woman who was hiring and I got the job and she was a very good boss.

[00:04:18]>> Uh this job >> the person that is I would consider the immediate boss is a woman. She's a lovely person.

[00:04:25]>> So workwise I have not experienced anyone who's difficult. Personal life women.

[00:04:32]Women have been my support system.

[00:04:35]>> Okay.

[00:04:35]>> Yeah. Even outside of this circle, the closest friends outside of this circle are women still.

[00:04:42]>> Yeah. So for me, I haven't had a negative experience with women and feeling like women are cy dangerous or malicious.

[00:04:51]>> That has not been my reality.

[00:04:54]>> Fortunately, >> blessed are you amongst >> women.

[00:04:58]>> You what has been your experience with women? I think it's both >> for me because just like Nelly, I feel like I have >> so work life >> I did not feel supported by women.

[00:05:12]>> But I also feel like generally because it was a toxic workplace but then women were more toxic.

[00:05:18]>> Mhm.

[00:05:18]>> At least the ones I interacted with >> cuz even the guy that took me from the person that took me from like the administration desk and wanted to find out what did you do? why you in admin and you're supposed to be in investments was a guy >> and the the the and there was a lady who I used to interact with that I even had pitched to first >> that didn't even bother her to like ask for okay s your papers I look at them um but now also in friendship circles >> I mean honestly other than your husbands I I don't have male friends like yeah so I feel like on a work the work front I my experience with me and then even now even with um business I find some women very interesting like not women as in clients because you see I have for me it's twofold it is women that are clients but it is maybe women that I would maybe look at as mentors or women I would look at as >> they cheer you on I've had like two very bad experiences of women that I looked at as mentors that I ended up realizing eh I'm on my own up you're nobody's mentor okay at least not mine >> yeah yeah so I feel like on the professional end that's the dynamic but on the social end women all the way like friends support um I mean even my following like on social media it's just amazing women yeah so I feel like on the professional end is where I'm not so sure what that's about yeah >> okay >> I think same to you Um women have just starting from my mom you know I have had a really great woman support in the form of my mother.

[00:07:08]>> Okay.

[00:07:08]>> So growing up there was that um and then in the workplace similarly a woman connected me to another woman who then became my boss.

[00:07:18]>> Um and she really >> she really like got me into the space.

[00:07:24]She taught me the ropes. She did not fear putting me on platforms. You know how some people are usually like don't give them too much of a limelight. They will take it or whatever. She wasn't like she was like should expose me like go and do it, go and do the presentation etc. But she also would show up really negatively.

[00:07:43]>> So cuz our our dynamic did not end so well.

[00:07:47]>> So on the on the one hand she really propped me up and supported me and helped me and mentored me. But on the other hand, she also really hurt me deeply.

[00:07:58]>> Yeah.

[00:07:58]>> Yeah.

[00:07:59]>> Um, personal relationships, I think the same. Um, of course, most of my close people are women. Um, I feel like women have really rallied around me in my very difficult times.

[00:08:14]>> Um, but I've also fallen out >> deeply with women, I guess, because they're the ones who >> they're the closest.

[00:08:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. So for me I've had the I've had the duality of of which takes me to is it that it is a women's issue or is it simply that we are human and let me give a scenario and I were talking about the the summit the sh your summit >> and how everyone was dressed up and glammed up makeup action >> all that. So, I was planning to go to another separate conference and I was like, "Hey babe, I think I I'll need to have makeup on and I'll have to dress up and everything."

[00:09:02]>> I was like, "You will I will be treated differently or received differently when I am glammed up."

[00:09:07]>> Yeah.

[00:09:08]>> And his question was who who set that >> standard >> standard? Me, I was like it is not the women. His argument was it is the women who require you to do that. So why do the women require you to show up like that?

[00:09:22]>> And I was like, "No, this doesn't just stem from the women. It stems from the men."

[00:09:28]>> Because initially, as we know, corporate, >> it was a very male-dominated space.

[00:09:34]>> Um, and then for the entrance of women, they had to come in in a particular way.

[00:09:39]>> So they came in with, you know, glam, makeup, whatever, presentation, be presented in a particular way. And then as a result of that that became like the standard of how you show up in corporate.

[00:09:52]>> And so what these women have done is they have now the next tire of women they tell you to be received with this piece do this. M >> so my I faulted them to the extent that they do not now create an environment where we don't the tattoo women don't have to show up like that like these women who have already now dominated these spaces can begin to create an environment where you just show up the way you want to show up and it's okay >> okay to be in makeup to look presentable >> yes but they still haven't allowed for that to happen >> so Wome's argument was so it is still this women who are causing that you now feel the need to put on makeup to be to feel as though you're going to be received or you're going to be listened to or treated a particular way.

[00:10:43]So with that scenario in mind, do you think that some of this um whether it is is or gatekeeping, whether it is this narrative of women are their own worst enemies, is it simply a women thing or is the issue broader and it's just a humanity society thing?

[00:11:08]I think >> one I think we are pitted against each other as women >> but I also think we are put on a higher [snorts] pedestal >> Mhm.

[00:11:22]>> than men on certain things >> on the pitting against each other. It is that if you experience a boss who is as toxic as your female boss was or if you experience a mentor who treated you the same way that woman treated you, >> you would not be men.

[00:11:41]>> It would not be a it's a men thing. It would be it's a that guy thing.

[00:11:46]>> But if it is a female, it stops being it is that woman, it is women.

[00:11:53]So that I feel pits us against each other because >> why can't it just be I had a >> Cecilia was not a good boss.

[00:12:02]>> Why is it suddenly women in corporate are not good bosses? It is just Cecilia.

[00:12:06]It's not all women because I can give you 15 women who in the workplace are very very healthy and very good. So that I think they're placing on a higher pedestal is because of that. It stops being a that person issue. generally categorized as women are toxic in the work workplace or they're that or they're this because I can count also I've experienced men who are also the same things we say women are in the workplace they're loud they're arrogant they treat people badly they get keep they are in positions longer than they should be men are doing all these things but we don't say men >> we don't say men but we know men who've held positions for years we know men who want to sleep with women so that they can get >> better jobs or get jobs or climb the ladder Why is it not men? Why is it oh it's just that guy or it's just the head of it's just >> that I find that I I find a problem in that and then two expectations that we are placing on each other as women also.

[00:13:04]>> Mhm. So I think when because of the narrative of women and toxicity in the workplace especially >> we have a sort of defense >> any slight misdemeanor from the woman >> you already have you you're hyper sensitive to what this person does just because she's a woman in a higher position and she's probably going through motions of life. Most women in those positions let's look at what is happening on reality. they're in their 50s or late 40s menopause.

[00:13:37]>> So if it's not menopause, probably you are dealing with a teenager or something. Your kids are either teenagers and above.

[00:13:45]>> So you're also dealing with ailing parents >> most likely or an ailing spouse or you yourself you have health issues or you're going through a divorce or separation.

[00:13:56]So all these dynamics going on in your body as a woman at that age and now this responsibility and these things I don't think we give each other that grace >> even from down looking up at the person in leadership and whatn not >> if you remove the lens of women are toxic what is this person like >> especially you that you've experienced the duality of that in one person >> so you wouldn't really say that person is generally bad, >> but there's something. Yeah, you would say they're generally bad.

[00:14:32]>> Yeah, they're a bad person.

[00:14:34]>> If you're saying they're a bad person, they're a bad person. But if you have had different experiences with someone, I don't think as women, we should be very quick to label another woman also.

[00:14:43]>> Yeah. No, I feel like you get to the place of saying this is a bad person because of that. You know how we were talking about the therapy speech and the element of constantly doing something.

[00:14:52]So yeah, they have like they have bits and pieces where for sure this person came through for sure they were >> they they were great they supported you in this way but then they have also consistently been really mean or being really negative or being really awful.

[00:15:08]>> So like the total sum of this person >> is bad.

[00:15:13]>> Yeah.

[00:15:14]>> You know >> Yeah. So okay >> yeah we should be quick to judge but also uh my issue is that pedestal and we are generalizing we also know men have a worse reputation in the corporate space but we still don't say men are against men but they do all these things to men also >> I think I think why it's a dynamic because I've never had a phrase like men are their own worst enemies >> in my life. It's never been >> It has never been said, but I have had women leave this place.

[00:15:45]>> Exactly. But I have heard it. I have heard it so many times that women are their own worst enemies. So, for one, I agree with you, Nelly, that there has got to be someone that coined that phrase for a reason. And I do not think it was a woman.

[00:16:01]Just if I was to if I was to hypothetically, if I was to Yeah. Like initially I don't think that that came from a woman >> from a woman but I think as women we now took the narrative and I feel like there's no one who furthers that narrative more than women.

[00:16:17]>> I think we >> Yeah. Like I don't think it was Yeah. I [clears throat] don't think it was coined by a woman but I think women propagate it more than men. But also the second thing is I feel like >> uh what you're talking about in terms of holding uh women to higher standards. I think women hold women to higher standards. Let me give an example. You see like how when you are given that example of the 50-year-old woman who has menopause, who has this, who has that, who has that, the expectation is that as the younger woman working under her, >> maybe not from you, but the expectation is that I am expected to understand her >> or I'm expected to at least empathize with or to >> Yeah. of what she's going through. But what I worry with that narrative is that I also feel like it gives um it's such an open-ended kind of like way to think about like I'm not saying let's not show empathy but then I'm curious whether a 50-year-old man acting like the devil himself in the corporate we will try to we will tell like the person working under them to try and understand or try to figure out why this 50-year-old man for example You know what happens when a 50-year-old is acting up like that? We normalize it and say that's how he is.

[00:17:37]>> He's just an ass.

[00:17:39]>> How many men have you had?

[00:17:40]>> Yes. We normalize. We just say he's just an ass or he's just aggressive or he's just a shark. He's a business shark like that. If if people know he's sleeping around in the office, it's normal.

[00:17:50]>> Yeah.

[00:17:51]>> That's But if a woman is sleeping around in the office, >> it's an issue. So I that's what I I feel like the expectation is wrong on both ends in the sense that the older there's a as a younger woman I hold this woman to a higher standard cuz it's almost as though you've been where I am >> you should know you should you should probably like you walked so that I can run so resentfulness >> why should you run and I walked Some of them are like that.

[00:18:25]>> Some also why should you run? And that's why I'm saying it is us that propagate it more from the perspective of an older woman and also from the perspective of uh younger women and and therefore sometimes I know this isn't about workplaces only but I also feel like I really struggle with like the whole workplace uh dynamic with men and women because while on one hand me personally I agree that sometimes a woman can be your your women can be their worst their own worst enemy and I think it comes from that expectation cuz like for me when um especially say you're my boss >> and you're a parent and a wife >> one of the things that it has been so initially I've gone through different phases of being a feminist and now the phase that I am genuinely yeah cuz I I'm laughing it's true >> yeah like I do you know the way you start understanding the wisdom in how old women would would the things they used to say that really annoyed us. One of the things I was pro yes in the office we are equal. I was just like don't in fact don't give me any special treatment.

[00:19:43]And I feel like a lot of the women who still think like that sometimes I feel it is because of a lack of exposure in life or you've not yet gone through certain phases in life to understand.

[00:19:53]Now I do not want special treatment from anybody in the office or in the workplace. But I sure as hell do not think I'm equal or I'm the same to a man.

[00:20:02]>> Yes. Before you understand me or even put me on the same nin I feel like we have our own strength. So like now for me when I'm like in a professional setting I don't lead with strength and nin and whatever I lead like you see how some like with men it is that grit shrewdness n like for me I lead with like um it's like calculated ways of doing I feel like we have different methods and um ways of of achieving the same thing like I do not have to leave the office at 3:00 a.m. I absolutely do not have to like I I'm just saying that if we were given the same targets and I need to meet them, I will not try and meet them the way a man would because I have also accepted that um we are not the same. I So you see when now you're my boss, I think the expectation is that if you've ever been a mom, you would probably understand why their days have come in and maybe texted and be like, "Guys, I'm running 30 minutes late." And you understand that that is not because I do not respect my job. I don't like some days I can wake up early as early as usually I should wake up. I should have beat in traffic. I should have been in the office by 8. But my expectation is that because you've been a mom to young three children before or even if it is one, you understand that if it becomes a habit, it's a problem. But this car one time or the two times that a nanny has inconvenienced me or whatever and then you come down so heavy on me, I'd be like my expectation is is that you've probably experienced this before. No, but then you that's what I'm saying.

[00:21:51]Like I feel like we shouldn't completely just say unrealistic expectations. I expect a woman I have an expectation for a woman boss is what I'm saying.

[00:22:01]>> Than a man boss. Yeah. than a male boss just because of we are not the same. And I do not I'm not saying I expect special treatment from anybody, but I have an expectation that you probably went through this as a younger professional.

[00:22:19]So like that's what I'm saying. Not that I mean I really expect a lot from men generally but I change the Lord is really working on your heart but like I feel like I I am one of those people you're talking about for I hold I personally hold women >> to a higher standard and I struggle with seeing how that is a >> problem >> problem.

[00:22:47]>> Yeah. Like my Yeah. I feel like but why wouldn't we?

[00:22:52]>> You get >> I hear you topic >> cuz I'm like yes we do hold >> I get it but it's also the reason this narrative will forever exist >> for women being their own worst enemies >> because of the higher standard.

[00:23:09]>> Yes. Because of that higher standard. If that woman doesn't understand the day your nanny leaves you high and dry >> you now think she's out to get you because you're a woman. She's a woman.

[00:23:19]But if a male boss didn't understand, it wouldn't be his out to get you.

[00:23:26]Excuse.

[00:23:27]>> So with a man, it just becomes excuse.

[00:23:31]>> With a woman, it becomes the woman is out to get me. Like it becomes you're doing this because I'm a woman and you're a woman.

[00:23:37]>> No, no, no. I think you're I think with the woman and trying to support Susan, holding the woman to a higher standard with a woman, it's not that you're out to get me. It's that I would hope you would be able to see this perspective.

[00:23:55]Even if you choose not to excuse it or to deal with me as harshly as the man, >> I would hope that this conversation between you and I is not a foreign concept. But you see the hope is good whisper. But when you share that conversation with someone outside what will they say? See that comment will come women are their own worst enemies.

[00:24:16]That statement will come up. If Susan runs about a boss who didn't understand this woman knows and she's been here before. Hey women are their own worst enemies. Can we shift from the workplace? Because I feel like I have a similar I have an example for actual friendship dynamics. I feel this is the same reason why we are told that women friendships are fake >> while men's friendships are are not fake. Let's just Yeah. And it is because you see this thing for holding each other to higher standards is the reason why we fight more >> cuz I'm not willing to overlook for dudes it's almost just going to be because I feel like it's the same standard like the I feel like so the question I guess is should we >> reduce the standards or should we what's the standard >> how can women stop being each other's let me give you a scenario >> have the standard but do not propagate that narrative. No, let me give you a when you when you are disappointed, don't make it a woman because she's a woman thing.

[00:25:21]>> But that's the whole point. Not because she's a woman. I think like a bad thing for me saying that it's because she's a woman should actually be uh I don't want to say the word encouraging but it should be like the mirror that pops up because that is the thing that is connecting you and I and let me give an an example with one of my bosses.

[00:25:53]She was a mom and so her kids are much older. And so at the point when we were getting into it, one of the things she told me was that Chris, I think your children are distracting you. And you know, hearing those words come out of her mouth for me were just like wait what?

[00:26:14]>> Because I am not a lazy employee.

[00:26:16]>> Like for all intents and purposes, I have shown up to work. I have been present etc etc. So you have picked one situation that you were unhappy with which maybe you communicated or you did not communicate and then you summarize this into >> your children are distracting >> for me like and and now I'm like you are a mother.

[00:26:41]You have been in seasons of so-called destruction.

[00:26:45]>> Yeah.

[00:26:46]>> Fine. Come and tell me you know maybe I want you to improve one two three but you cannot be the one who gives the who uses my children as the >> and then now take note that this has now happened >> and then now I am going to be in a position of >> power >> of power at some point. Now I'll be the boss. And something I've noted noted with even this the toxic women bosses, they have picked it from whoever was above them cuz from the narratives I've heard so far, a toxic boss will probably share with you a scenario where they experienced toxicity from a senior.

[00:27:26]>> Yeah, that was worse. So if so I could be here thinking um I want to be a great boss but because what has formed or what has curved my career journey has been a toxic boss I might actually continue to propagate toxicity.

[00:27:47]>> Yeah. So I feel like if we don't check it and be like by the way being held to the higher standard >> is not at is not a bad length we will continue to not propagate this narrative then if you're holding to a higher standard and because the reason you're being hurt or you're feeling hurt more is because she's a woman and you think she should understand then Susan back to you. How do you then not propagate that narrative that women are their own worst enemies?

[00:28:20]Because you will if someone is to say that statement you will agree with it >> because that has been your experience >> in that scenario >> in that scenario because you will forever be hurt more >> that we have is what you said that the it's not all women it's like it's I I I think I wouldn't 100% agree. I have room in my heart for >> we have both. It's both that because I mean you say like how we both we all I think you're the only one who said both the workplace and in social relations you've had good experiences but I feel like for most of the part you've experienced a woman being your enemy intentionally >> and a woman really going down for you like going hard for you. So I feel like that person is a bad person. She's not a bad woman.

[00:29:17]>> She's a bad person.

[00:29:19]>> Yeah. She's a bad person.

[00:29:20]>> So So I feel like we can acknowledge that we are holding each other to higher standards. But when you fall short of that standard, it's not just because you're a woman.

[00:29:28]>> Yes. Because you're a bad person. Yes.

[00:29:32]>> Yeah.

[00:29:33]>> I agree with that.

[00:29:35]>> Okay. So, let's get into older versus younger women.

[00:29:42]>> Yeah.

[00:29:43]>> So, the questions we have here, uh, let me start with the second one. Do we have any real examples of gatekeeping or are we sometimes misinterpreting tough guidance as a lack of support? And this is under do older women support younger women?

[00:30:04]Do you which give me examples of older women who have supported you.

[00:30:08]>> Yeah, I'm trying to think I feel like why does this come up so much in I feel like I have been out of like social circles where I'm interacting with like with a lot of older women for a while because for me it was so when I was still in my previous church >> um I feel like older women really um raised me.

[00:30:32]>> Yeah. like in my pre for the longest time, right? Um at the point I was leaving because I already had like church heart, I guess I was just angry >> not at the women, just at people, not necessarily at women, but like if I was to start the earliest memories of myself growing up and even when I think about it, even like my mom, one of the things um that I keep telling like my mom, especially when we were living in Zimma, she had older women. The only reason I feel like especially like after the separation with my dad like women rallied around us like much older women like until I've gotten like until I've become an adult and now I've started doing work stuff is when I've picked up on that >> women not like supporting people because I feel like at least in social settings I've not had like as a girl growing up as a girl observing my mother now parent as a single mother. Um when I got into church leadership um yeah until work like for me corporate is where I started being like friends as friends I don't know so I feel like for me it has been like if I was to say that I've had yes I have had a lot of mentorship growing up but now as a grown adult woman I struggle with getting mentorship. In fact, interestingly, now I don't >> like I I don't think I've ever approached someone to mentor me. I feel like people mentor me from a distance as in >> I pick stuff from people. And I also feel like it is also because you see like that thing that people say you never want to meet like your hero or like your role model, you'll be very disappointed. I feel like those two instances especially like one of them that I had like I'm fairly I move about fairly naive unfortunately because I again I feel like so once it happens because I'm also very guarded now I feel like I would not even be bothered to >> like now want to yeah like it to be like can I walk with you now to where I need to be is another woman who's walked this journey. I stopped um believing in that narrative. I'm like even a man can >> Yeah. Or I can just find my way.

[00:33:13]>> It might take me longer, but I can.

[00:33:15]Yeah. Or I can just become smart and gleam from other people's experiences.

[00:33:20]You get? So I feel like that's that for me has been >> in many ways to skin a cat.

[00:33:24]>> Exactly. So for me I I to answer your question yes I have had a lot of mentorship from women but to a >> up to yeah up to a point >> cuz even socially honestly right now I still feel like do you do you guys feel like for example in a marriage setting come squeezy older women are working with younger women to help them navigate marriage? One of the blessings I have is Messi.

[00:33:51]>> Yeah, >> cuz I am the youngest.

[00:33:54]>> Yeah.

[00:33:56]>> But you see, they're not materially older.

[00:33:58]>> They are.

[00:33:59]>> Some of them.

[00:34:00]>> They just look cute.

[00:34:03]It was >> like much older. A woman who's been in marriage 20 years.

[00:34:07]>> Your grandmother would be the one mentoring your mother. Like your grandmother and her age mates >> were the ones coming to your mother and their age mates >> to like >> mentor them. And it was very like people used to choose best couples for their wedding and that was it was yeah it was a learning thing you're married you're older and much older it wasn't that 5 10 years 10 years and then now yeah that's what I [snorts] feel like I don't know now whether I'm not saying it's a women thing but I'm also cuz I mean I could also ask guys the same question are you guys being mentored by much older men or like in the area of work, in the area of marriage, in the area of like is that have we lost that?

[00:34:56]>> Maybe we are losing it.

[00:34:57]>> Yeah. Cuz I don't think it's >> cuz the mentorship is now much it's not it's not it's like I'm being cuz most of the women for instance in marriage they're millennials but they're older millennials. So maybe they're like 36 37 48 >> not significantly older.

[00:35:16]What does that say about us now if we were to look inwardly that disconnect?

[00:35:22]Maybe it's just a n thing like is it is this the narrative?

[00:35:26]>> I think millennials >> is that true?

[00:35:32]>> I would think so. Like I don't think we I don't think in my opinion I don't think we seek out counel.

[00:35:42]>> Yeah, we don't. And I also don't think we take being told very nicely >> like the age of information >> actually >> we know >> so and then also we we either like you I don't think you have done so well to tell me what to do.

[00:36:04]You're still failing in some areas.

[00:36:06]You're not perfect. So I'm like >> I think I feel I think that is the mentality we have >> this some truth right >> I think that's the mentality a lot of us have >> where even if you're told you just judge >> now do you see why an older woman would want to school you >> because already you're showing up with no in their own in their own version when like now let's say when you when you're now in like a work situation, they'd be like, so now do you see how in a workplace setting they'd probably be like, I'll show you.

[00:36:50]>> I'll show you [laughter] and and now even if we were to look inwardly, I meant would you Cabera as an an older woman because now we we are going to be the older women at some point. We are already the older like to a 21year-old who just finished high school or is a real life example >> of that me being the older woman. It didn't work.

[00:37:15]>> Did you try and severally >> tell them something?

[00:37:18]>> I was just like this kid thinks they know it. They don't come watch >> cuz >> nothing sits with me.

[00:37:25]>> The question is twofold. So let me ask you. So now the first question was have you had a mentor mentee or whatever relationship with a younger woman and how did that um um pan out and then number two would you now seek out because we are saying um would you seek out a younger like let's say a younger girl or whatever in our circle um maybe we met in an event or whatever and be like I would want to pour into another young girl like have you have you even thought of like doing that. So one the experience you've had and whether you would even seek out cuz we are trying to figure out when did mentorship stop.

[00:38:07]>> Yeah. So I have had such a relationship.

[00:38:11]>> Um and it was I think I was like you're really caught up in yourself or what you think you know or what you think you want. And I can only speak into this for so long or Yeah, I can only speak into this for so long. If it's not a change you want to happen or a direction you want to move in then and then secondly right now I am hesitant to seek out a younger girl >> just because I am very aware of propagating toxicity that I have experienced.

[00:38:54]>> Oh okay. I don't want to pass on what I may have picked up.

[00:39:03]>> So, I'm like I'm actually just cautious of myself. I'm like, am I really ready >> to start speaking into someone else's life >> if I'm not even sure >> that these things that I experienced, I have like processed them and I'll do better >> and not show up in the exact same way.

[00:39:22]>> Yeah.

[00:39:22]>> I was hurt.

[00:39:23]>> Still a bit fear bit.

[00:39:24]>> Yeah. For me it's still fear >> based based >> I haven't had that relationship I don't think I would seek out but if I am sought >> I am open >> how would you decide whether to mentor >> whether they're ready because also two times so how would you know if from face value if I came today and asked you Nelly can you be my mentor either at a workplace or in your church or just someone who's like I watch you on the chish board I'd like you to mentor me or like the kids they just to see what drive you have by yourself >> because also mentorship is like therapy.

[00:40:02]They don't really Yeah, it's relationship but also rarely do they do the work for you. You do most of the work yourself.

[00:40:09]>> So yeah, I would be hesitant but I'd see first just to see you're not going to waste my time and we just >> meeting and spending time and there's nothing you're gleaning from me really.

[00:40:21]We're just spending a lot of time together and also I ask myself what you are seeking from me can I even offer >> cuz maybe I direct you to someone else >> who can offer what you're looking for.

[00:40:33]You think you can get it from me but the way I know myself I don't think I can offer that to you. Imagine for me that haunts me as a coach >> and it's something that so naturally from me like just I feel like I'm good with teaching and training >> pretty much anything.

[00:40:56]Um but then it's the one thing that I I always I'm just like where like the I I do not know that you will hear >> and just like you for me I'm not worried that I will propagate the toxicity for me my worry is that I will want to make you into >> I mean you yeah like I get too invested if there's such a thing like I get too invested but the part that I'm saying really haunts me now is from the perspective of a Christian. I really worry about >> all the amazing things that we are and that God has given us that we are not passing down like I worry whether this thing will continue to die and die and die like it disturbs me that I I have scenarios like I think for me I have scenarios where I will observe >> things and be like I really wish I could walk with this person. I get that a lot so many times.

[00:41:59]I'm just like or even a cousin, a sibling. Like I'm just like I really wish cuz I can see that you just you don't know what you don't know. And I also don't think you have someone who is even interested in telling you other than your mom and you've already your parents that age.

[00:42:19]So the person that can really mentor you and work with you, someone closer to your age, but someone who has gone through life a little bit. That really haunts me cuz I'm like I feel like we are we we are dying with >> things inside of us that we would have impacted in other people. But because the social dynamic right now is so weird >> you can't n it. And yet this is how we would I feel like this is one of the other ways we would kill the narrative that we are our own worst enemies cuz we would need them. We would I don't know it's very hope need it's very coded.

[00:42:55]It's very hope coded. It's like you're in an ideal exactly like in an ideal setting where >> there's they will actually listen. They actually want the help or the mentorship. they will apply all these things and that they will appreciate >> and they're ready >> and that they are ready.

[00:43:13]>> Yeah. So it haunts me that's one of the things I wish I could do more >> of.

[00:43:20]How do you start to do it then? That's it. She's already started with the session we had with the >> mentorship. So professional >> but you see that's the start maybe from something like that someone approaching someone for I was thinking >> you've talked about the aspect of that continuous working with someone I was watching on CTA this lady what is her name I forget her name she met um they're now friends but she met her at the workplace she was much younger this lady was already senior And they have it started as just a work >> dynamic >> and pol like the the younger lady would be like you know I'm getting married and this woman would just be like hm consider doing this and this should go do it then she come back and tell her then she'd be like okay so they it just evolved evolved evolved they have literally integrated their lives >> and this is like a friend for life and they they have a serious age. I was like, "This is so >> beautiful." Yeah. I wish we had more of that.

[00:44:30]>> Ha. Let's wrap it up. Um, and hopefully we'll now go back to the initial questions. Are women their own worst enemies? Um, is there any truth to the idea that women sometimes hold other women to higher stand? I think we've covered that.

[00:44:46]>> Um, are women harder on women than men are?

[00:44:51]So who places more pressure on women regarding appearance, relationships, motherhood, aging and success?

[00:44:57]>> Let's go one by one.

[00:44:59]>> I think >> so. Pressure on let's appearance on appearance.

[00:45:06]>> Guys, I have an argument. It's women.

[00:45:09]You know why women? Because you seem too think and and in the house and then cuz I've seen I've seen like guys on TikTok be like >> by from how a girl is dressed you can tell whether they're going out with their girls going out with their man. [laughter] >> But also think about it whose comment sticks to you more?

[00:45:36]>> The woman. The woman.

[00:45:37]>> Exactly. If anyone positive comment or negative comment about how you look, you wouldn't care much whether [laughter] it's women. Women. Next category.

[00:46:01]>> Who places more pressure on women regarding relationships?

[00:46:06]I think men.

[00:46:08]>> What kind of rel like how?

[00:46:10]>> So, I saw something recently. There was a podcast. I love this babe, but I keep forgetting her name.

[00:46:17]>> But it's a Kenyan podcast. No, it's a Kenyan podcast. She Kitambbo. She used to do something around love letters.

[00:46:24]>> Stephanie.

[00:46:26]>> Yeah, Stephanie. I don't know whether it was on her page or maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it was on her page. There were some babes that were coming. I think they were discussing something about um like being child-free and comments from the men >> like on that comment section they're very like anytime and trust me like t on the socials anytime a woman is like I'm happy to not be married or you're single at the age of 35 or you're child free it's not women are now way more accepting of other women not being married in fact we support of other women in fact stay away or of other women like not being moms. Yeah.

[00:47:08]But I feel like we have a weird breed of men that are actually really bothered cuz like the comments some of them were actually really insulting like to I'm like how does what they're talking about >> affect you?

[00:47:20]>> Like get connection. So like it's things like you get like it's almost as though we are angry that >> you people don't want to get married >> married anymore. So I feel like right now I feel like the much older women would be like really giving the younger guys pressure to get married and get children. But now I feel like I I hear a lot of silence from like much older like I I'm rarely getting like Yeah. like older women giving younger women pressure to get married or been in relationships. No. But now I find that >> men will label you a certain way if you're if you're married at a particular age and they will make insinuations and nuances as to why. And most of the times it's not it's not just that you're studying or you're working on yourself or you genuinely don't want to be in a relationship.

[00:48:15]>> It is that you want to be out in the streets.

[00:48:18]>> Yeah. That's why you don't want commitment >> on motherhood.

[00:48:25]>> Women.

[00:48:25]>> Women.

[00:48:26]>> Yeah. Women.

[00:48:27]>> Definitely women.

[00:48:29]>> Aging.

[00:48:32]>> Aging. I also think it is. It is. I think it's also men sometimes.

[00:48:39]pressure >> for how you're aging. Are you aging well? Oh, you look old. Like those comments rarely will come from men about how you're aing the physicality of it. I doubt or even pressure you look old or you look young or you're too old for this or you're too young for this.

[00:48:59]>> I really But now negative talk about older women comes.

[00:49:05]>> Yeah. Negative talk about older women is from men.

[00:49:08]>> But aging as a woman, the pressure you get regarding aging as a woman is from your women.

[00:49:14]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:15]>> And success.

[00:49:17]>> Come again with the question who gives places more pressure on women >> to be regarding success.

[00:49:26]I think women in my opinion >> because in I think >> very personal opinion >> men especially if they are in a relationship setting majority >> prefer their wives that they will be the one success yeah the success they are the success of the family so really I doubt they'll be pressuring you to be the successful one >> that's true >> or even if they're dating regardless I think the pressure for success is women women >> whether it is said whether it is just insinuate or you just >> as the person you're perceiving it you're just hey I want to be as successful as so and so or so and so and so successful >> I think the pressure you you rarely will you look at a man and be like I want to be as successful as man >> that's so true you'll just be looking at women and be like oh I want to be like oh she inspires me but very recently let me confess I actually sat and looked at someone like >> I am so disappointed. You could have You could do so much better. Like Yeah. A woman. Like I find myself regularly just judging.

[00:50:33]>> You're sitting on potential.

[00:50:34]>> Yeah. Like pressure.

[00:50:38]>> Yeah. Yeah. I almost disagreed with you.

[00:50:42]>> But I've never thought that of a man.

[00:50:45]>> You know, I've noticed women don't think much of men. Like not [laughter] much of men. Like we don't think about them often enough. You know why they make it look like we are constantly just there thinking about how to please my man and my man to man sad.

[00:51:01]>> I feel like most times we are thinking about other women.

[00:51:04]>> Women and they are thinking about women.

[00:51:07]>> Yeah. And they are thinking about women.

[00:51:08][laughter] >> So who's thinking >> and so maybe that's why >> K who's thinking about men guys. Anyway, sorry for another day.

[00:51:15]>> Yeah. Maybe that's why it's easier for us to even coin that women are their own worst enemies because we are always concerned about women.

[00:51:25]>> Yeah, we're in each other's business.

[00:51:28]>> Maybe the challenge is too how do we make this >> Yeah, I think maybe a question I'd have and maybe even for the audience is how how can women support women better? Like maybe you can give one or two hot takes of what you wish women did >> more better cuz I feel like there's all that that we are doing wrong and we can improve on it. The question is what can we do better? What should what would you expect of women whether and it it's not like us but like women in the work space, women in the church, women in the what do you wish what do you think if we did more of or if we did better off we would slowly um disapprove or kill this narrative? Hi, I think I'd ask it the other way also. What would they do better as the women >> because it starts with you as the woman.

[00:52:14]What are you going to do better?

[00:52:16]>> Yeah, that's what she's asking.

[00:52:17]>> That's what I'm asking. So, what do you think we should do? Should be done?

[00:52:20]>> What we should be what should you as Susan Wi do better as a woman >> to stop propagating this self search and figure out where you became the other person's enemy >> and what you could have done differently and start doing things differently. So you selfie should think about what you should do better as a woman to be a better friend or better >> to be better to other women in the society. I think for me that's what I was asking actually like in our own opinions what can we do better not we as women representatives of women but me as Susan you as Nelly you as Risper >> I think for me just first at the workplace try and be the example that I've been shown cuz I've been shown very good examples by women before me >> so I I wouldn't lie and say I will seek out younger women to mentor That's a lie. I will just be more open.

[00:53:27]What I can control is I will be more open if someone cuz I've been approached before and said no a couple of times cuz I'm just like >> Santa capacity another relationship I lack.

[00:53:41]>> But I will try and be more open. The next person that approaches me probably say yes.

[00:53:47]>> That's a good one.

[00:53:48]>> So that's the one thing I can say >> can do better.

[00:53:52]I think for me it's seeking out. I really wish I I would seek out.

[00:53:58]>> Yeah.

[00:53:59]>> Then seek out one person.

[00:54:00]>> Then seek out.

[00:54:00]>> Yeah.

[00:54:02]>> The next person who approaches you.

[00:54:05]>> No. The next person she has a person and approach them cuz I don't you see like on cuz of what I'm known for for social media is like the personal finance coaching. That's not what I want. I can't mentor anyone on that.

[00:54:21]Just do do your damn job. [snorts] Budget, educate yourself, etc. There's all of that. [laughter] >> But I want I want your mentors. I want your mentors. Do your damn job.

[00:54:36]>> Just do what you're supposed to [laughter] do. You know, I want I when I think mentorship, I think life. I think life skills. I think Yeah. Holistic, not just at how do I budget? That's goodable information because I think for me mentorship is about walking doing life with someone. Yeah. Like gleaming from their life and it's very personal which is why >> and it's sharing your life.

[00:54:59]>> Yeah. With another person >> and that is the one reason why I cannot mentor someone because they reached out for me to mentor.

[00:55:07]>> Like I feel like that is outside look like I feel like um there is a proximity issue for me. Like if you texted me on my DMs to mentor you, I feel like yeah, that can't work. At least for me. I don't know. Maybe in another way, we must have proximity of some kind because I think for that interaction and we must have had an interaction before like and that's why that's why it haunts me because I feel like God places we already have people in our lives that we can mentor. we are just not mentoring them or we are just not reaching out to them. That's my that's my headache. Like I'm not saying people on social media.

[00:55:50]I'm saying in our immediate environments they are. It's hard to do it Susan if someone is not willing and that's you can't just tell someone what I'm going to mentor you now >> or you start giving them advice or you start it's very hard for someone who's like >> maybe mentorship is not a you know I feel like we also have um how we we envision mentorship looks like >> it could be >> if it's just pouring >> constantly and as on the go I think we all do that to the women we have in our lives. But if it is it has to be consistent, >> it has to be it even has to be like structured structured and consist not structured as classes but if we if I have been mentored before we would at least meet once a quarter there has got to be a checkin. So how are we doing?

[00:56:44]Did you dump that boy? Yeah, >> that's why I'm saying I find it hard then for you to be the one approaching that person >> because it is you trying to help them make better life decisions >> if they're not there.

[00:56:58]>> They have to approach you.

[00:56:59]>> They have to approach you in a way because if they're not there yet, what are you approaching? No, I was meaning approaching from a random strangers perspective. But if you're already That's what I meant by proximity. You have to be within my >> but they have to be the one to approach you. interest.

[00:57:24]Yeah. But now would I now the thing is can I now initiate cuz already she's in my space. Yeah.

[00:57:32]>> Okay. If it's like >> so I think that's what I can commit to try and do.

[00:57:38]>> Yeah. I'm not going to commit.

[00:57:39]>> You commit to healing.

[00:57:41]>> Yes.

[00:57:42]>> Yeah.

[00:57:42]>> Yeah. commit to healing.

[00:57:45]>> I can commit to that. I'm a work in progress.

[00:57:50]I think you know beyond being my mentor, she was my friend >> and also sana.

[00:57:58]So yeah, that's a lot. [snorts] >> Thanks.

[00:58:03][laughter] >> They're there. [gasps] >> They're there.

[00:58:07]>> So are women their own worst enemies?

[00:58:10]>> Yes and no.

[00:58:10]>> No.

[00:58:11]>> Yes and no.

[00:58:12]>> No. Yeah. Yes.

[00:58:15]>> So, two versus one. I guess we take the day.

[00:58:19]>> Please add your comments. Are women their own worst enemies?

[00:58:23]>> Experiences. Yeah.

[00:58:28]>> Yeah. That's it, guys.

[00:58:30]>> Until the next one, please be do not be another woman's worst edi.

[00:58:35]>> Be better.

[00:58:36]>> Be better.

[00:58:38]>> Be better. Do better. Bye-bye. Bye.

[00:58:41][music] >> [music] [music] >> Hey.