The ABILITY to read could have PREVENTED this call || JOVAN DEBATES

Added: 2026-05-05

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[00:00:55]pronouns.

[00:00:57]>> 39 um and I'm a man. He him.

[00:01:02]>> Okay. Brian 39. He him. Now, Brian, I believe minors should have access to gender affirming care. Do you disagree?

[00:01:11]And if so, why?

[00:01:15]>> I do. Uh, I don't think children can consent uh meaningfully to lifealtering treatment, >> Brian. Can children consent to any type of medical care?

[00:01:32]>> Um, what kind of medical care?

[00:01:37]>> Any?

[00:01:40]>> No, I mean I I don't I don't agree with a labbotomy. I think that's barbaric. I think chopping off a child's >> I don't know what I don't know what labbotoies have to do with I asked a very simple question and you said no children can consent to any medical care correct >> labbotoies are relevant because didn't ask about labbotoies >> didn't ask about uh labbotoies I asked about any medical care whatsoever can children consent to any medical care >> I think they no they have parents >> great parents consent for the children as you just So I don't know what the issue with gender affirming care would be in term if you're saying it's bad because of the consent issue because children don't consent to their own medical care.

[00:02:24]Parents consent for them. So it's the parents who say that children are able to get gender firming care. Children don't just walk into a doctor by themselves and get access to treatment.

[00:02:36]That doesn't happen. It's illegal to happen. It's not happened.

[00:02:40]>> It doesn't happen. There's no evidence of it happening anywhere. And anytime it has happened, if it has happened, a doctor will lose their medical license because it's illegal to practice medicine on children without parents consent in every state.

[00:02:54]>> Well, I don't think I don't think parents should be allowed to alter their children's bodies.

[00:03:00]>> Well, that's a different conversation.

[00:03:01]You said you disagreed because of the consent issue. So, now you're saying there's actually a different reason you disagree.

[00:03:09]Well, it's it's something that is irreversible and a child doesn't have the faculty to understand themselves because the >> they don't need the faculty to understand themselves because they don't make medical decisions for themselves.

[00:03:24]So, I don't know why you keep going back to that. My child also wouldn't have the faculty to understand going through chemotherapy, but I would still let them because they have a medical uh issue that needs treatment. Gender dysphoria is a medical issue that needs treatment if it's severe enough and we found that the best treatment for that >> is gender affirming medical care.

[00:03:49]>> Absolutely not. I you know we're cutting up babies who are influenced by what they're seeing on television.

[00:03:56]>> Babies? What are you What are you talking about cutting up babies? No child receives surgeries. Those are reserved at most for 15 year olds to get top surgery. And then very few out out.

[00:04:10]It's not okay for 15year-olds to get their breasts taken off.

[00:04:14]>> No.

[00:04:15]>> Why?

[00:04:17]>> No. Listen to yourself.

[00:04:18]>> Why?

[00:04:21]>> Why? I'm going to repeat uh the question. Why?

[00:04:24]>> I don't need you to repeat the question.

[00:04:26]You're just hunking out of answering the question. Actually answer the question.

[00:04:31]actually answer the question, Ryan. If you're afraid to answer the question, you can say that, >> but like actually answer it.

[00:04:37]>> It's I'll tell you, it's barbaric.

[00:04:39]>> That's not an answer.

[00:04:41]>> I think it's barbaric to refuse treatment to a child. See, now we're at a standstill. So, why don't you give an actual answer about why it is either harmful, why it is unethical. Why don't you give an actual answer, Brian? If all you have is emotional appeals, that's fine. and just say all I have is emotional appeals and I'll understand that you don't have a thought out answer. It's not it's not self-evident.

[00:05:04]That's a copout. Self-evidence is a copout.

[00:05:06]>> The body parts of perfectly healthy >> self-evident is a copout because you have not logically thought through your stance.

[00:05:13]>> And that's okay.

[00:05:14]>> I don't think people like you do think through your stances. I think you get emotional. And so you have an emotional appeal to this. And instead of logically thinking out your stance, you're going to just repeat like platitudes. I don't care about your platitudes. Why don't you answer the actual question? If it is bad, that means there would be some harm related to it. Point me in the direction of the harm.

[00:05:38]>> The harm is the fact that they can't reproduce.

[00:05:43]>> We're not talking about reproduction.

[00:05:44]We're talking about We're talking about top surgery here. No, Brian, because you're going to something we're not talking about, Brian. You're going to something we're not talking about.

[00:05:53]Brian, I don't let people just wander willy-nilly into the woods of conversation. There's a path that we're sticking on. We're talking about top surgery. I asked you to point me to the harm of top surgery and you go to they can't reproduce. Top surgery doesn't stop someone from reproducing. So, do you have an actual answer for why top surgery is harmful or are you just spouting platitudes?

[00:06:16]that the things that make them appealing to a mate in the future, it's some of those things that help are breasts. And if you're >> So the reason why >> the reason why 15year-olds shouldn't get top surgery, everybody, is because Brian won't want to [ __ ] him.

[00:06:35]>> Let's just be Let's just keep it a 100.

[00:06:37]The reason Brian doesn't want 15year-olds to get top surgery is because Brian doesn't want to [ __ ] him.

[00:06:43]You heard it here first, everybody.

[00:06:45]That's not harmful.

[00:06:47]Somebody not wanting to [ __ ] you is not a reason not to get medical treatment, Brian. It actually just makes you seem [ __ ] creepy. Do you have an actual reason that's harmful that isn't because somebody won't want to [ __ ] them?

[00:07:01]>> I I'm looking out for the well-being of a child.

[00:07:03]>> No, you're not. You're looking out for your dick. You're not looking out for the child. You're looking You're not See, platitude after platitude after platitude. How many talking points do you have to list off for me, Brian?

[00:07:14]Brian, how many talking points do you have to list off for me? I'm stopping them, protecting them from an ideology.

[00:07:19]Whoopde [ __ ] do. Brian, can you think for yourself? Is that possible? Is it possible for you to give a unique thought here today, Brian? I don't give a [ __ ] about you thinking that you're protecting them from an ideology. I don't care about any of that. Point me to the harm. The harm is not they won't want to be [ __ ] someday. That's not harmful. Do you have actual evidence? I what I'd love is academic research about the harm. That's what I would love.

[00:07:45]>> Do you want academic research or do you want a unique thought >> because the unique thought that you asked for initially >> would be the fact that we treat anorexia patients.

[00:07:56]>> That's not unique at all.

[00:07:57]>> Telling them >> that's well unique at all.

[00:08:02]My listeners have heard the same talking point from [ __ ] trans phobes for the last [ __ ] for the last [ __ ] three years. They've heard the same nonsense talking point.

[00:08:12]>> It's not. You have no what we've learned here, Brian, is you have no actual answer for this question. You don't know what the harm is. You've never actually You never actually, Brian, I don't care about the platitudes. So, every time you try to just come in here Yes, it is.

[00:08:29]Every time you try to come in here with the nonsense, I'm just going to ignore it. I can I because you haven't given a single fact this entire time. The only thing you've given the only thing you've given is [ __ ] shallow answers, which that's what platitudes are. You haven't used a single piece of logic. You haven't used a single piece of logic.

[00:08:51]You know how I know you haven't used a single piece of logic, Brian? Let me tell you how I know you haven't used Let me tell you how. Let me tell you, Brian, let me tell you how you haven't used a single piece. We're muting you. Let me tell you how you haven't used a single piece of logic. Brian, I'm going to tell you right now. You're on mute. So, I can tell you why you haven't used logic.

[00:09:06]Your entire talking point coming in here was I want this banned because children can't consent. And we broke down how that was an illogical statement because children do not consent to any medical care. So, you've not used logic this entire time, Brian.

[00:09:24]If you want to tell me you have a logical stance, if you want to invoke [ __ ] Plato, then Brian, what I want from you next, and we won't move on in this conversation until it's provided, I would like a syllogism. If you want to invoke logic, let's do it. Provide me a syllogism for your argument. A simple P1, P2, I mean, you can add as many P's as you want if you need to, and a C. So, that's all I want to hear from you, Brian. I want to hear your syllogism on why it's harmful. Let's see if you can provide a logically sound syllogism. I don't think you can, but let's see you try.

[00:10:02]>> It's wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being. Abortion intentionally kills an innocent human.

[00:10:07]>> I don't know why you think we're talking about abortion. I'm not pivoting to abortion. Stick on topic.

[00:10:14]Cuz >> we're talking about pro-life.

[00:10:16]>> Nobody's talking about abortion.

[00:10:17]Nobody's talking about pro-life. Stick on topic.

[00:10:21]That's exactly what we're talking about.

[00:10:23]>> Nobody's talking about abortion.

[00:10:25]Nobody's talking about pro-life. Stick on topic.

[00:10:31]>> So, you want you want to know the same thing about transgender.

[00:10:34]>> I want you to provide a syllogism for your argument. If you want to invoke Plato, if you want to invoke logic, provide a sound syllogism.

[00:10:42]children can't give a full informed consent to irreversible or lifealtering medical interventions or surgeries. And number two is that trans uh gender transition interventions for minors are irreversible and lifealtering. Number three is therefore children should not undergo gender transition interventions.

[00:11:03]Number one because it's irreversible.

[00:11:06]Number two, because it's lifealtering and >> your and your syllogism is not sound undergo gender transition interventions.

[00:11:13]>> Unfortunately, your syllogism is not sound and I will I will break it down with my own P1 parents consent to medical care for their children whether that medical care be irreversible or not. P2, gender affirming health care, is medical care that has benefits for both mental health and total outcomes overall. Conclusion: Parents can consent for their children to receive gender affirming medical care. Thank you for having a syllogism that was broken down very easily by my syllogism. Thanks.

[00:11:51]>> Well, your yours will be broken down very easily.

[00:11:53]>> Try it.

[00:11:57]Break it down. Do it. So they do authorize treatment, but they shouldn't because it's not their body.

[00:12:05]>> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That doesn't break down my syllogism. That can be That doesn't break down my syllogism. My syllogism is baked in with the idea, and you agreed with this, that parents are allowed to consent for their children to receive medical care. If you're going, "Well, they shouldn't be because it's not their body." that holds for every single medical decision ever.

[00:12:30]And you and I both know that's illogical. Parents are the only people, unless the child is has another type of guardian or as a ward of the state, parents are the only people that can medically consent for decisions to their children unless they're deemed incompetent and then a doctor can. And knowing that it is baked into the legal system of our country that parents are allowed to make that decision, it being the child's body plays into none of this. Just as just like if a parent's child gets pregnant, the parent can decide to get that child needs an abortion or they can decide that the child cannot have an abortion because it being the child's body doesn't actually matter because children cannot consent to medical treatments. Only parents can.

[00:13:14]So Brian, you said you could break down my syllogism. Hasn't happened.

[00:13:18]>> We we don't we we don't let parents abuse their children. Brian, you are the only person here advocating for abuse by by telling parents to not do a medical treatment that has been both deemed safe by almost every major medical body that has studied it. that is the current based upon the American Psychiatric Association, based upon the WP path, based on the WHO, based on the CDC is the only treatment that actually relevantly lowers numbers when it comes to things like trans suicide, when it comes to coorbidities, from transgender uh from gender dysphoria, when it comes to mental health outcomes. It's the only thing that lowers the numbers of that.

[00:13:56]It's the only thing that provides a positive benefit. So, the only person advocating for abuse is you, Brian.

[00:14:03]Unless you have some sort of research that says otherwise, which I know you don't because I don't believe you've ever opened up a piece of academic literature in your life. Now, I will gladly read some if you can tell me that you have some sort of academic evidence that it's actually causes more harm when a child goes through this treatment path than had a child not gone through this treatment path. I would love to hear that, but we both know you don't have that.

[00:14:35]>> Well, there's the Cass review.

[00:14:36]>> The Cass review did not say children should not receive gender affirming healthcare. In fact, I can pull you up an interview with Dr. Hillary Cass themselves and their team from the Kite Trust when they interviewed Dr. Hillary Cass in April of I want to say it was 2024 or 2023. They interviewed Dr. Hillary Cass themselves and asked, "Are you against a ban on on uh medical treatments such as puberty blockers? Dr. Cass, do you believe puberty blockers are unsafe drugs?" And the response from Cass and her team was, "The CAS review report does not conclude that puberty suppressing hormones are an unsafe treatment." The report supports a research study being implemented to allow pre-pubertal children to have a pathway to accessing this treatment in a timely way. So, I know you didn't read the cast review. I know you didn't read the cast review, right? I know you are just using it because you've heard it on right leaning talking like shows or you've heard it on Fox News. You've heard it on [ __ ] probably on Truth Social. You've probably heard it on [ __ ] Rumble, but you've never read it. You don't know what it says. You have not You have no clue. You don't even know who Hillary Cass is. You don't know that Hillary that the cast review has been under widespread scrutiny because it didn't actually follow any really hard methodological uh methodological uh uh or it had multiple flawed methodological errors in the review.

[00:16:04]They excluded studies that quite literally proved them wrong. They just tossed them because there was a bias in the cast review. Hence a bias that Dr. Cass didn't even want. Hence why her team said the report does not advocate for removing the ability for people to have for children to have gender affirming medical care. So Brian, why don't you tell me another thing that you didn't read that you're trying to pass off here? I'd love to hear it.

[00:16:33]>> I'm curious who's paying you guys to be just violent evidence. I don't care about the ad hom.

[00:16:43]I could be getting paid. I could be getting paid. Yes, it is. When you refuse to engage in the argument and instead you attack when you refuse to engage in the argument and instead you when you refuse you you did by when you say that I'm being paid for this that is a personal attack instead of addressing the argument which I laid out which clearly dismantles your argument. Now Brian, I'm going to ask you again.

[00:17:05]Brian, I'm going to ask you again.

[00:17:06]You're not going to be able to pivot.

[00:17:07]I'm not going to I'm not going to engage in the nonsense anymore. I'm going to ask you again. Do you have a single piece of medical evidence, a single piece of academic evidence that you have read and actually read through that supports your thesis statement? Do you have any of this, Brian?

[00:17:22]>> Did you Did you read the cast review?

[00:17:24]>> Yes, in its entirety.

[00:17:27]>> Okay, >> try another one.

[00:17:28]>> What was the conclusion of the cast review?

[00:17:30]>> I just did. The conclusion of the cast review was that when it comes to pubertal suppressants, because that was really the only thing they talked about when it comes to trans medical affirming healthcare, they actually didn't really touch HRT. when it comes to pubertal suppressants, they want to move to a research-based model where the these children can still have access to this treatment, but they can uh just record the data of what happens when they get it. The cast review said there wasn't a clear enough bout of evidence on either side, but again, that's because their methodology was flawed and they excluded studies. They excluded studies >> of children.

[00:18:02]>> I I don't know why you're interrupting, Brian. I only I only allow people to interrupt me when they're interrupt interrupting me with actual substance.

[00:18:10]You are not interrupting me with substance. So, you are not allowed to interrupt here. You don't have that power. There is no substance. Brian, this is not the movie The Substance.

[00:18:19]Brian, you're going to be muted. I don't allow people who have no substance to think they can come and waltz into my show and spout nonsense. You have nothing here.

[00:18:28]>> You didn't read the cast review. You don't have a single piece of evidence that supports your [ __ ] claim. Your claim has been illogical from the second you you spout it out of your mouth and all you've tried to do now is present ad homs because you've realized that you've lost the argument. Bad faith people like you are an embarrassment to what I like to call the debate culture. So I'm going to ask again for the final time, Brian, and all I want to hear is the answer to this question. If you say anything else, I will drop the call and move on to one of the other people in the queue because there are other people waiting. So, I'm going to say it again. If you say anything else other than answering what I'm going to ask you, I will move on to somebody else. Do you, Brian, have a single piece of either medical or academic research that supports your claim that gender affirming medical care is harmful? That is the only question I want answered. If you say anything else, you will be booted. So, go ahead, Brian.

[00:19:28]Answer that question. Now >> I've got about six points.

[00:19:33]>> Bye.

[00:19:35]See you. That's not a piece of academic or medical research.

[00:19:38]>> That's all I asked you. Goodbye.

[00:19:40]>> That wasn't a single piece of medical or academic research. Goodbye.

[00:19:45]Thanks for playing.

[00:19:47]>> Please read next time. Reading would prevent like it would have prevented this. Opening up a book would have prevented this.

[00:19:57]Broadening your horizons would have prevented this. Talking to a single trans person would have prevented this.

[00:20:03]Not allowing right-leaning media to influence everything about your life would have prevented this.

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