Disturbing details of murder in cruise ship cabin, teenage stepbrother charged as adult- Anna Kepner

Añadido: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]Hey guys, uh thanks so much for checking out my show. Really, really appreciate it. Uh please click to subscribe. I appreciate all the support. Uh before Nancy Guthrie, before I spent all that time in Arizona, I was really really invested in the in the Anna Kapner case.

[00:00:14]Those of you who have followed me for a while know uh about this case. This is the uh young woman who was on the Carnival cruise ship with her family when she was found dead. Um, and she was actually found essentially stuffed under one of the beds in one of the cruise ship cabins and covered up with life jackets. Uh, and she was discovered when the ship actually pulled into Port Miami, which is way back there behind me. You can't actually see it from where I'm sitting here, but um, Port Miami is just just back that way. Uh, and it's a case that has been very very disturbing since the beginning. Um there was a lot of speculation about what happened and a lot of that has now been confirmed according to investigators who now say that it is Anna's stepbrother uh who is responsible and in this episode I am going to get into some details that haven't been spoken about before. Uh and I actually have a guest who knows all the ins and outs of the latest developments. Uh but let me let me get through some of the basics with you. Uh first uh she was found dead on the Carnival ship again, stuffed under the bed, covered with life jackets uh in the room she was sharing with her stepbrother and also her halfb brotherther. Uh pretty quickly there was a lot of suspicion around her 16-year-old stepbrother. Uh and all the family's baggage has come into light. Uh we've all been covering the divorce proceedings because there has been information that's leaked out through these divorce proceedings about what may have happened to Anna Keaptainner on the cruise. Uh now the stepbrother has officially been indicted in federal court on firstdegree murder charges and aggravated sexual assault charges and he is being charged as an adult. Now all this is very very unusual because it it's not typical for a a minor to be char he's 16 uh the stepbrother to be charged um in federal court. The feds don't typically charge minors. This whole case is is unusual for a number of reasons. It happened at sea. The FBI investigated. The feds are now prosecuting. And it's a minor. All of those things do not typically happen, especially the feds charging a minor. Uh so he's now been uh charged as an adult.

[00:02:21]It's been upgraded to adult level charges. And again, the um official charges, federal charges are first-degree murder, aggravated sexual assault. Uh I'm going to go through the new charging document in a second um and go over all the new angles. Again, my my buddy who's been a reporter covering this since the beginning, has a lot of family contacts and has a lot of information to share on that front. Um, this is interesting though. The stepbrother has been allowed to live with an uncle while all of this is ongoing. Uh, and I found it kind of perplexing since the beginning. You've got someone, even though he's like younger, but still charged with murder and charged with raping someone within his family who has been allowed to uh be free during this whole process. You think about it, typical circumstances, someone accused of that would be uh probably locked up with no bond until a trial. This uh this I almost said kid, but you know, 16-year-old um has been free ever since this happened, which has always just been kind of strange to me, which I'm going to ask my my guest Ben Ashford about in in um in a second. Uh the stepbrother has maintained that he could not remember exactly what happened. The other sad thing is Anna's halfb brotherther was also staying in the room and after Anna according to investigator was was killed and stuffed under the bread bed the half brother actually went to sleep and never realized that his halfsister was already dead in the room and underneath the bed which is just unimaginable to think about. Anna Keaptainner was a a wonderful young woman. She um planned on joining the US Navy becoming a police officer and this whole story has just uh sort of been upsetting on a number of levels, but especially because it from everything that we've heard, Anna was um was just again a wonderful young woman with a bright future uh ahead of her.

[00:04:10]I'm joined now by Ben Ashford, a senior investigative reporter for the Daily Mail and also a good a good buddy of mine. And Ben has really been covering the Anna Kapner case better than anyone I know. He's been to so many of the hearings, the divorce hearings, and just sort of all the ups and downs from the last um you know, since November 7th when all this started. Uh Ben, were you expecting uh the stepbrother to be charged as um as an adult?

[00:04:37]>> Uh yeah, very much so. To the point where I've been checking Pacer, you know, the online court records database sort of daily for a month. uh because I mean he was charged as a child or as a a juvenile back on February the 2nd and we were outside the federal court in Miami when he went in there and of course that was a a closed door hearing but we knew he'd been charged. We knew there was a a murder charge and a serious sexual offense.

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[00:06:12]We couldn't tell you much more than that because we weren't allowed in there. But ever since then, we know he's been charged. We know that there was this movement underway to kind of convert it into an adult case so that it could proceed in federal court. So, yeah, we've known that this is all going on behind the scenes for months, but it's just taken an incredible amount of time for it actually to become official and to be unsealed. and the indictment that was unsealed today and that was dated I think March 10th. So for a reporter that's quite frustrating that you don't know what's going on or you do and you want to report it but you can't. So I just think imagine how frustrating that is for the family. They couldn't even read the indictment until today. And as it happens the indictment is very flimsy. It's only got a few pages and it really just lists the charges. So I think I was personally expecting a bit more detail today finally, but we didn't even get that. So the fact that he's been charged, well, we knew that months ago. The fact that he's been charged as an adult, we knew that was that process had been underway like a long time ago as well.

[00:07:22]>> Do we know any more about like why he would have done this? Uh because it it seems like at least he did well in school. He he seemed like a a good kid for a while.

[00:07:34]Um, I mean to just suddenly it doesn't have a criminal history from what we know to just suddenly rape and allegedly kill your stepsister on a cruise. Have you been able to figure it out at all?

[00:07:46]Like what led up to this?

[00:07:49]>> Well, I mean certainly he comes from a broken home. Um, his father and his mother had ongoing divorce custody issues. he was in a blended home. Um, but you know, that's reality for a lot of kids. I think what is shocking here is how unusual it is. And that's reflected in this sort of labyrinth in process just to get him into court and to to start the case. You know, they spent months figuring out what to do with him cuz it's so unusual to have a a federal murder case with a kid. But I spoke to his his dad today and I said, "You know what? What is what is Timothy's position?" And he said, "Oh, last time I spoke to him, he was still saying, I can't remember." Oh, yeah. I don't know what happened. Hasn't expressed any remorse, hasn't apologized, anything like that. So, they're still the family have still got a lot of questions about what's happened. And I say the indictment just had a couple of couple of paragraphs just like technical details of the charge. So I'd love to be able to give you chapter of verse on why a 16-year-old boy does something unspeakable allegedly. Um but I don't think anyone knows the answer. I think we'll probably be asking that question for for for years. I remember there was reporting early on that she I think it was her ex-boyfriend who said that she was afraid of her stepbrother.

[00:09:28]Did any more come of that or why she was scared of him? And and also why they would share a room together if if why the parents would have let her share a room with him if if if she was scared of him.

[00:09:41]I from what I can tell the FBI, the family did not uh ascribe to that point of view. They did not think that there was a problem between them. Uh I think in the court hearing, the custody hearing for one of the younger children, they were described as sort of best friends, the three amigos.

[00:10:03]Um the parents were actually in a cabin directly opposite. So there's been a lot of lot of criticism of the parents saying, "What are you doing? Why are you letting a female be in a a room with two boys?" Which would have been her halfb brotherther and her stepbrother. But in fairness, the parents were literally across the corridor in a room opposite.

[00:10:25]And a lot of families go on cruises.

[00:10:27]It's expensive. They all sort of bunk together in in rooms like that. there are multiple beds in one room to to to say the families can do that. So I'm not judging it one way or the other but that was the situation the parents were directly opposite and that as far as I know there was not some history of her being afraid of him or anything like that.

[00:10:52]>> Was there any concern from her family about this cruise before it happened?

[00:11:00]Well, when you say her family, that's a very complicated picture because she's got a biological mother who has come out and said Anna was concerned about the cruise. But the extent of which they communicated before the cruise is it it seems like they were basically estranged from one another.

[00:11:20]um her she I guess the woman who considered herself her mother is separated from Christopher. So Christopher uh Keaptainner is her dad. She was raised by Tabitha Keaptainner but they're no longer married. And this the stepmother that's on the scene now is Shael Hudson.

[00:11:44]Um so when you say is the family worry I mean the family is this sort of shifting um like array of relatives and family setup but from what I can remember a lot of the family went on the trip. So you had Christopher on the trip you had her half brother you had other siblings and then you had her uh grandparents who apparently she had like a fantastic relationship with. So you had all these parents, guardians on the trip. So it didn't appear like they had great concerns, you know, they appeared like they were having a great time and it appeared uh to them, to the parents that the kids got along. that one report you're talking about, a friend of hers or an ex-boyfriend said this very early on at a a memorial service. And I don't know that from what I can see, it was never really borne out in in in the subsequent investigations and what people said. I didn't hear something similar. That account seems to to be a kind of just a bit of an outlier as far as I know.

[00:12:55]Did people within the family suspect the stepbrother early on or I mean did they think that like someone broke into the room and did they like what was or were all eyes kind of on him from the beginning?

[00:13:07]>> My understanding is he was the prime and only suspect from the very beginning because it was very quickly established that he had been in the room alone with her at the time. um her half brother who's effectively like a brother to her uh another boy who's uh 14 I believe he was also in the room but he had gone out so I was told that he went around the ship taking pictures to post on social media and actually one of his social media accounts it had some some he taken some like nice portraits of the ship um and I think that was effectively an alibi by and that meant that they were alone. And when he came back to the room, he didn't see his sister and he believed that maybe she'd gone back out, hung out with the adults, you know, cuz he was a young boy. She was an adult and so she could have gone out to hang out with her parents or grandparents. So, he just went to bed. He didn't know that at that point she was actually underneath one of the beds in the room. She was already dead at that point. So that's one of the macab elements of the story.

[00:14:21]He, this younger boy went to bed not knowing his sister was, you know, a few feet away and was already dead. It's absolutely shocking for horrible for that boy in particular. Yeah, I think that's one of the more um awful details with this whole thing is that he the the half brother went to bed in the room not realizing that his sister was dead essentially stuffed under the bed. Was the stepbrother not in there sleeping also?

[00:14:53]>> Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he slept the night. Yeah, I I'd have to check this, but I believe he slept I think that they the boys had the bunks and she had a bed. Uh, but I'm not sure if he either were directly above her. Um, but yeah, they both slept in the room and then the next day I think they went for breakfast and at that point the family sort of said, "Where's Anna?" Um, and they I think they were they were kind of trying to figure out where she was. And that's when an emergency came out on the ship's public address system asking for the the medical people to go to the room that the young the trio were staying in. And so that's when Christopher, the dad, sprinted up to the stateateroom and basically walked in just after a maid or like a member of like the the cleaning crew had just found the body. So he more or less got there at the same time that it was discovered >> and she was strangled to death. Is that right?

[00:16:01]Yeah, it was mechanicaliation I think was the um was written on the the death certificate.

[00:16:10]>> Do we know any more about the timeline of of how it happened? I mean, how they ended up in the room alone and where the rest of the family was.

[00:16:21]>> Well, she had complained of feeling uh feeling unwell during dinner. Um, and I believe that she'd gone back to the room, but she she may also have gone out to the casino briefly to say good night to her grandparents, but she ultimately ended up back in the room with the suspect. That's the the prosecution's version of events as described to me, which left them in the same room, and then the other boy left the room to go and take his pictures.

[00:16:55]>> What's the family dynamic like now? Um, are people standing, you know, are the members of the family standing by the stepbrother or is everybody turned on him? Like, how would you describe it?

[00:17:09]>> Well, it's interesting because the I mean, you feel sorry for everyone involved in this, but the dad is is you can't imagine how awful that is for him.

[00:17:20]you know, he's lost his daughter and he's married. He's found love with a woman, Shantel. They're very much in love. They're still a couple. And her son allegedly killed his daughter.

[00:17:38]So, to say that's a compliment uh complic complicated and difficult financial uh family dynamic is I'd say putting it lightly. So yeah, he they he would have been treading very carefully not to upset his partner but also to seek justice for his daughter. But I think now they're basically on the same soul sheet. They have released statements both questioning why Timothy isn't in custody. So when I spoke to the dad today and asked him, "What do you think of the charges? What do you feel about it?

[00:18:19]the point they want to get across and they're really angry about is the fact he's not in custody. So if you ask the dad uh Christopher what what do you want to happen to him ultimately? He'll he'll be kind of diplomatic in a way and say I want the justice system to to to take its course.

[00:18:39]But if you ask him right now they're really angry. They want he wants certainly he wants Timothy in custody.

[00:18:46]What they can't understand is that he was charged on the February the 2nd and and actually when when we went there to cover that we were told he was going to surrender to the uh the federal jail next door or the federal detention center and be walked across you know in handcuffs as a suspect you'd expect but he didn't. He that actually didn't happen and he came from another direction and walked into court and then of course he walked out of court. He went over the road. He got fitted with a GPS ankle tag and that's it. They just let him go and he's now at a location in central Florida with a paternal uncle.

[00:19:27]And the family are like they're just absolutely gobsmacked by that. can't believe that a murder suspect is allowed to basically be out and do what he wants and albeit he probably can't do what he wants, but their main thing uh is that he should be in custody cuz they feel he could be a danger not just to other people but to himself.

[00:19:51]um he should be monitored and and so they released a statement back on in February and reiterated it to me today that they all and that includes Shantel I believe believe the boy should be in custody and not just you know have an ankle tag and be at an uncle's house deep in the woods where it's probably hard to get to him quickly. Um, so yeah, all of them would like him to be arrested, put somewhere where he's monitored and watched and um, so yeah, that that's their that's their main concern at the moment. They can't understand why he is still at Liberty.

[00:20:32]Yeah, that's one of the more unusual things about this story to me is I don't think I've ever covered someone charged as an adult with murder and rape who is not in jail without a bond or with a very very high bond. Um I mean was there before he was actually charged like was he able to go to school and stuff?

[00:20:54]I don't think he's been back to school since the incident >> because he attended the same school as Anna. So, he was he was taken out of school >> and he went off to stay with family members and eventually the court that's dealing with custody issues between his mother and father.

[00:21:16]uh that court sort of formalized that arrangement and he was put in the care of a paternal uncle in a very rural setting in central Florida. I've actually been there. I went for the Daily Mail and spoke to Timothy briefly.

[00:21:32]Um and my understanding is that is where he is now and that's where he's been the whole time. So yeah, I I wouldn't be amazed if he was going to school. he couldn't be going to the same school because that location is at least an hour away from, you know, his school. So I think >> when you spoke to him, he was just free free like able to walk around outside. I mean, what was that situation like?

[00:21:58]>> Well, we actually we we drove past the address where we believe the address was redacted in the court documents and we I wouldn't call it guesswork, but we had When we when we got there, we weren't entirely sure what we were going to find because, you know, it wasn't spelled out. So, when we got there, there was actually the house where he's staying is is set back down a trail in woods and so forth, but there was a little um kiosk by the road and it was selling firewood for five bucks a bundle. This is when there was that unusually cold snap. I think it might have been January. And we drove past and we saw someone in the rearview mirror stop and like take some firewood. And by the time we turned round, the person had driven off and up came um Timothy on a little buggy to replenish the firewood and take the money. So yeah, we just saw him out in the street running his little business.

[00:23:04]I mean, if this was a normal kid, you'd say, "Good on you, you know, making a bit of money, pocket money, and um doing something good." But yeah, it it this was the suspect accused of ultimately accused of murdering his sister, and he was running this little firewood stall in the street. And I went up and I said, "Look, I don't know if you can talk to me, and maybe an adult inside could supervise." Like, it was a very strange situation. And I can't say that I've ever like challenged or approached for comment a boy before accused of murder and nothing like that. So I didn't really know what to do and I it felt slightly inappropriate to kind of do the usual reporter thing and hiss him with questions. So I actually gave my card and said, "Why don't you go in and ask an adult maybe to come out here and we could talk about it?" and he got back in his little buggy um like I don't know what you call like a golf cart but off road and zoomed back up the driveway and I never heard anything more about them.

[00:24:08]Never heard anything. They never called me. So >> So you saw him that time and have you seen him in another time? Was it the other time outside court? The only other time that we've seen him is out selling firewood in the sticks and at court where as I say he we were told in advance that he was going into the uh in Miami there's a federal court building with a detention center next to it. So we were told look at the detention center. He will go in. he will then be led in an internal walkway after he's been charged like all prisoners into court. And it didn't happen. And then he suddenly came from the other direction.

[00:24:50]He walked into court. He's wearing a hoodie. He's wearing a hat. Uh you know, he he he no one had put him in a a suit or anything. Maybe a suit. You wouldn't expect a suit for a 16-year-old, but at least maybe a shirt and tie and looking smart. I was told that inside the court he did take his hoodie off and he did have a shirt, but he looked exactly as he did when I saw him on his little buggy. He just was wearing like camouflage like hoodie and cap. He looked like a little boy. Like he's not a This is not a case of a little This is not a case of a kid who you look at and think, "Wow, he looks 21 and he's 16."

[00:25:28]No, you look at this boy and you think he's a he's a little skinny small boy.

[00:25:33]And you actually wonder how he could be physically capable of it, let alone mentally capable of it.

[00:25:41]But you wonder how a kid this small and scrawny could overpower anyone, even if it's a female. I mean, he he he looks, you know, weedy for one of a better word.

[00:25:54]>> Does he have any mental illness that you know of? I'm just trying to think how someone, you know, snaps and does this, especially the way you're describing him.

[00:26:03]>> Uh they, in one of the uh family court hearings, they said he had a he was uh taking medication for ADHD.

[00:26:14]I don't know if you can't really describe that as a mental illness.

[00:26:18]>> Yeah, that's like every other kid.

[00:26:20]>> Every other kid. And what does that mean, you know? Um, >> and the other thing which struck me as a little bit more unusual was he's on like insomnia medication. So clearly his I think you could maybe draw some conclusion that he had a sort of unsettled state of mind or you know having to I mean ADHD drugs help you focus don't they? They're like uppers and then you can't sleep so you take more drugs to to bring you down to sleep. So that's probably I mean that's probably fairly typical that combination but I wouldn't want to be on those drugs and I probably wouldn't want my kids on those drugs and maybe his parents didn't want him on those drugs but that's what the doctors said he needed but that seems like for me that seems like an interesting concoction for a 16-year-old boy to be on you know drugs one set taking him up one set taking him down but I'm not an expert you know it just that's that's the only thing I've heard about any kind of medical conditions or anything like that.

[00:27:27]>> I I'm just thinking back to you seeing him selling firewood as he's a suspect for murdering his stepsister and raping her. Um something about that just doesn't sit well with me that he even though he looks unassuming and is is 16 and is a skinny kid. I mean, it just seems like that's a d he he's a danger to society. And that was before he even had the ankle monitor. Is that right?

[00:27:55]>> Yeah.

[00:27:56]>> So, he was had no ankle monitor, no nothing.

[00:27:58]>> That was when he was a suspect before he been charged.

[00:28:02]>> And now, even though he has been charged with murder and and raping his stepsister, he has the ankle monitor, but he's still free. Is he? And he's living with the same uncle.

[00:28:13]>> Forgive me to correct you slightly. He's charged with uh murder in the first degree and aggravated sexual abuse.

[00:28:22]>> However, when you read the indictment, it's murder in the course of committing a sexual abuse. I've never heard it quite phrased like that. Um but it does say the the sexual abuse element is penetrating her privates with his privates. So, >> I personally wouldn't have any problem describing that as as rape in overall terms. That's not the actual charge. I don't know why. I believed that that was going to be the charge, but the charge is aggravated sexual abuse. But if you read the indictment, the the mechanical act they describe, I mean, sounds very much like a a rape. So when I say I'm correcting you, I'm actually not really, but the actual the wording of the charge is aggravated sexual abuse.

[00:29:13]>> Is your sense that he's free because it's such an unusual situation. The federal system is not really set up for someone who's 16. And in a sense, he's kind of slid through the the cracks in a way and they don't really know what to do with him. I mean, is that's what's going on here?

[00:29:33]Well, I think their argument would be, you know, we have to uh dot every eye and cross every tea and we don't want to make any mistakes or screw things up cuz the family have suffered enough and it's very delicate situation with, you know, sibling on sibling crime. Um, so I don't know if you could say he slipped through the cracks because he has ultimately been charged, but I think the length of time it's taken to charge him and the secretiveness of it, I think, has aggravated family members. They they I think they think he's had special treatment. Um, so ultimately from that point of view, it's it seems a shame that he wasn't dealt with quicker, but the prosecutors will probably tell you they've done everything they needed to do. He's they're monitoring him. Um, and he has been charged. He's been indicted. He was indicted by a grand jury. So, you know, the case has taken a while, but ultimately it it's where they want it to be. So now that it is he's being charged as an adult, does that mean that there will be less secrecy? Because I'm just thinking, you know, you can go in and cover federal criminal hearings when, you know, when it's an adult.

[00:30:53]>> You would think so. I I don't know whether this is happen stance, but today the the the DA's office, the Southern District of Florida, they put out a press release announcing the charges. I must have asked them for an update about a dozen times. They didn't send me the press release. They sent me a press release probably four or five times last week with other stuff, but they didn't send this out. I don't know why. Probably just a mistake. They put a file number on the the press release when you go on to Pacer, which you'll know is the Federal Court online system. The file the the case doesn't come up.

[00:31:38]um called the court. They don't know why. They won't email you the indictment because it's against the rules. Um eventually I was able to get a copy from someone who got it in person. Like literally walked into the court building. I don't think all these all all these things are probably pretty random. But as it stands, I still can't see that case. It's allegedly been unsealed, but you can't see that as a member of the public. So, I'd love to say it's all open and easy access and everything's transparent, but whether it's a technical glitch, you still can't see it. So, I'd like to think maybe in a few days time or weeks time, it's just going to be on the system like every other court case I look up. But right now, it's it's not.

[00:32:26]>> It's also kind of interesting. The indictment you mentioned, it's not that detailed normally. And sometimes federal indictments I found aren't that detailed, but they usually have some synopsis. You know, we saw on surveillance camera him go in the room at this time, leave at this time. There was no one else in the room at besides her. You know what I mean? Something like that. And there was nothing like that. You're saying?

[00:32:48]>> Yeah. The the the docu narrative in it whatsoever. It just sort of said at a time and a place, i.e. the high seas and no last November the defendant did commit and then one charge like you know the technical wording of the charge and then the second charge technical wording of the charge and then it was signed off and then there was just a fact like tick in the box is it a death penalty case no what's the what's the possible sentence life um to be honest, the the it had about as much information as you might get on like a traffic citation or something. It really was the bare bones. Um you're right that sometimes it's kind of seems luck of the draw. Some cases you I mean if I'd have opened that up and seen 60 pages, I wouldn't have been surprised. You know, like there's there very often these things are really long.

[00:33:50]they include evidence or text messages or all kinds of stuff and that may come at a later date but the actual indictment the complaint was very bare bones which does happen but I think I mean I said when I spoke to one of the family members they hadn't seen the indictment they were waiting waiting to read it and their response was oh okay wow it's got absolutely nothing um so probably it's being done to be >> and when you say family members, this is the victim's this this is Anna's dad.

[00:34:25]>> Yeah.

[00:34:25]>> So really the victim's family. I mean I know it's complicating usually like the prosecution will be in communication with the victim's family.

[00:34:39]>> I'm talking Anna's blood relatives.

[00:34:42]>> Yeah.

[00:34:42]>> So when I say her family members, I'm talking blood relatives.

[00:34:47]Um, and well, I think they've been frustrated because they've been told not to say anything. So, they've had to keep quiet. They've been, as I say, especially upset and concerned that he's not in custody, but they haven't really been able to say that. Um and even now I perhaps the the the federal authorities are keeping it brief because they don't want to inflame the situation. They want to keep it as not quiet, but they they on the, you know, you could argue that why put out extraneous information that could upset the family and make headlines and fuel podcasts and me and you will be on here talking about it.

[00:35:38]But on the flip side, that kind of that stuff is going to kind of come out anyway. So, it's kind of misguided if you think it's never going to come out.

[00:35:47]Um, and of course eventually there'll be a trial and it'll come out at trial. So I think maybe in some ways they thought it would be like ripping off a plaster and the indictment would come out and it would give the whole narrative. It would make headlines for a few days and then they could kind of move on from this part and there would be a trial. But that's not the case because you know in a week's time all reporters are going to be looking at Pacer and every time there's a new document they're going to be reporting what's in that document. So they're going to get incremental pieces of information on what happened to Anna in the news as opposed to you know one cycle >> right for the family or not you know.

[00:36:37]>> Yeah. And I mean, you have a, you know, a teenage girl who was, you know, killed and and and sexually assaulted on a cruise ship. I mean, of course, it's going to be a story that we continue to cover. Is there anything else, Ben, that I left out? I mean, I think you covered it really well. Like, do we know what will happen next? And I guess my last question is, do we I'm still shocked that he's free? I mean, is there going to be some kind of hearing to lock him up while this all moves forward?

[00:37:04]Well, first off, um the the the the uh case isn't yet online. So, >> of course, that would list the hearings, right? So, I'll keep tracking that.

[00:37:19]Maybe it's not online tomorrow. I'll have to call the court and say, "What is going on? Is there a hearing?" But, of course, for him to be released, sorry, for him to be put in custody, there would have to be another hearing. the prosecution would have to apply to have his release conditions re-examined. So, you'd have to come down to court. I I don't know that that is the case and I I'm pretty certain I would have heard that by now. But that would be the process. So, he's not going to just suddenly like, you know, click your fingers and he's in custody. There would have to be a hearing and defense attorney would presumably um try and fight that. I mean, where where's he going to be? you know, is he going to be in um an adult jail? Is they going to be they're going to keep him in a federal lockup as a child? Is there a provision for children in those sorts of jails?

[00:38:09]You know, there's a lot of questions. I mean, that might be the answer really that we're looking for that there isn't an appropriate setting um for him to be held custody in. I will say that the the man in charge of him is got a very good reputation. I believe he's ex-military upstanding.

[00:38:32]>> Is a paternal uncle. Yeah.

[00:38:34]>> Um he is by all accounts, you know, very upstanding person, responsible person with a spotless reputation.

[00:38:46]So, um, as far as family goes, it seems like he's in responsible hands. But where he would be placed in custody, you know, that's a another question. I'm sorry. I'm giving you more questions and answers.

[00:38:59]>> No, no, you're right, though. It's unusual. I mean, for for a juvenile to be in the in the federal system like that. It's not like the state system where they have juvie, which is like the juvenile jail, and there's a whole process for that. So, >> well, we'll see what happens. I know you'll stay on it, Ben. Thank you for the update.

[00:39:15]My pleasure.

[00:39:16]>> All right, I'll see you later.

[00:39:17]>> Cheers, Brian.

[00:39:18]>> Really appreciate Ben for taking the time to talk with me. He's actually one of my good buddies. Uh, and as I said, he's covered this case unlike really anyone else that I know. He's gone to so many of the hearings and the divorce proceedings and followed it through all the way now to where it is now, which is an unusual situation with with a 16-year-old being charged in federal court. So, I'll stay on top of it. A lot of the hearings are going to happen here in Florida, where I'm where I live, where I'm based, and I'll keep you guys posted with with uh sort of how things um develop. All right, talk to you guys later.