Oliver & Company: A 1980s Time Capsule| Disney Animated Tierlist Ep. 27

追加: 2026-05-07

[00:00:16]Heat. Heat.

[00:00:38]Have you ever read Oliver Twist or watched the musical Oliver and said, "Hey, this would be so much better if all the cast was animals.

[00:00:53]And it was set in8s New York with Billy Joel as Dodger. That is Oliver and Company. So what makes Disney's Oliver and Company special?

[00:01:06]And what is its kind of forgotten place on the Disney cannon?

[00:01:13]Because it kind of got overshadowed by The Little Mermaid. Hello, my name is M and I am currently on a journey with my husband where I am watching every single Disney movie in chronological release order and ranking it on a tier list. But before we get into our rankings, I like to provide a little history to provide some connotation for these films.

[00:01:43]Oliver and Company premiered at the Ziggfield Theater on November 13th, 1988.

[00:01:49]The film is obviously based on Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens. The film stars Joey Lawrence as Oliver, Natalie Gregory as Jenny, Billy Joel as Dodger, Cheich Marin as Tito, Richard Mulligan as Einstein, Rosco Lee Brown as Francis, Cheryl Lee Ralph as Rita. Ironically, despite the fact that Cheryl Lee Ralph has literally been on Broadway, she did not provide the singing voice for Rita.

[00:02:18]I believe that was Cheryl Porter, Dom Deloise as Fagan, Robert Loia as Sykes, and B. Midler as Geette. And we've kind of heard Dom Deloise before as um Jeremy in The Secret of Nim and Tiger in An American Tale. This is the first and only Disney project he will ever voice in to date. I actually don't know if he's passed away.

[00:02:52]Oliver and Company is actually the first production to begin under the supervision of Michael Eisner who was the CEO and Jeffrey Katzenberg who is the chairman of the company as they joined the company in 1984.

[00:03:04]Early in their tenure at the company the duo had a meeting with staff at Disney including executives mainly executives to pitch ideas for animated movies. This meeting has been nicknamed the Gong Show. In this meeting, Ron Clements pitched The Little Mermaid and Treasure Planet, but most importantly, Pete Young suggested the idea for Oliver Twist, but with dogs.

[00:03:27]Jeffrey Katzenberg approved of this idea the next day, as he had helped develop the movie adaptation of the musical Oliver at Paramount Pictures. Jeffrey Katzenberg and Michael Eisner had both come from executive positions at Paramount Pictures before coming to Disney.

[00:03:45]And Pete Young was appointed to be the story supervisor on the project, but he reportedly passed away unexpectedly in 1985.

[00:03:53]Pre-production for the film began with the table read of the original novel as well as a watch of the musical adaptation. I'm assuming this is the Paramount movie adaptation of the musical, not a live production of the musical. However, that could still be possible. So, I got very little with my research. Apparently, it was off Broadway in 1985, but given that Disney Studios is in California, I would assume that they didn't go see the off Broadway version as an entire company. But somebody who knows a little bit more about Broadway history confirm if there was a tour going on in 1985 or a local production somewhere close to Burbankish California.

[00:04:40]Please somebody confirm um somebody who's more knowledgeable than me. I just tried to do cursory research and I could not find anything. Anyway, reportedly the first year of pre-production was difficult. Some on the production team felt unhappy with the direction of the movie, wanting the film to have a more contemporary vibe.

[00:05:01]Because of this feedback, director George Scribner chose to revise the film to have a more contemporary style.

[00:05:08]Production officially began in 1986 with the working title of Oliver and the Dodger, but later changed to Oliver and Company. Originally, Oliver and Dodger were kittens, then dogs, and then changed to have Oliver be a kitten in order to have him be isolated, and then have Dodger and the gang be dogs that could take Oliver under their wing. Tina Turner was the first consideration for Rita, with her original name actually being Tina. Her name was changed to Nancy, like the original character in the book and musical, and finally to Rita.

[00:05:42]Sykes was actually the last character created for the film. Initially, he was supposed to be a Doberman, and early story drafts had Sykes developing relationships with both Oliver and Rita.

[00:05:54]A scene written by Roy E. Disney where Fagan would try to steal a panda from the Central Park Zoo with Oliver eventually helping the panda escape back to the zoo got far into a development, being seen in a draft as far as August of 1986. This subplot was dropped when it was suggested that Fagan hold Oliver for ransom instead. The panda was also reportedly replaced by Jenny.

[00:06:18]I'm not quite sure about that, but supposedly supposedly with two asterisks.

[00:06:29]Um I I don't know. I can't imagine this film without Jenny.

[00:06:37]And Jenny was originally supposed to live with her mother, but this was changed to a maid. and then eventually their butler Winston. Between the story artists and writers, 20 people contributed to the story for the film, which I feel like feels like a little bit of a too many cooks in the kitchen moment, but I'll let him cook. Rewrites were focused on giving Oliver more attitude as well as developing his relationships with Dodger and Rita. In earlier drafts, Dodger was originally given a smaller role. Einstein was planned to be a bigger character with him visiting Sykes's office with Fagan, a scene that was changed to be Dodger instead.

[00:07:15]Tito, Francis, and Geette were originally meant to be secondary characters, but during production, their roles were expanded. This was especially the case for Tito, and after Cheich Marin was cast, he was given more development, namely his banter with Francis. Teach Marin also would improvise quite a bit, so they kind of just let him do his thing, and that kind of just naturally expanded the character. It was also during recording sessions that Geette and Tito's relationship was given development.

[00:07:44]Rita was meant to be Oliver's most essential relationship, like his relationship with Nancy in the original novel, but this was changed to focus on Oliver's relationship with Dodger.

[00:07:54]In earlier drafts, Rita was actually meant to have had a previous relationship with one of Sykes's Dobermans.

[00:08:02]Rita was also intended to be murdered like the original novel. Spoilers for Oliver, but it is a centuries old story. So, sorry, guys.

[00:08:17]But this was cut, which let's let animated characters die a little bit. We haven't let an animated character die in quite a bit. I feel like we're starting a trope here. Can we let one die? I hate to say that, guys.

[00:08:35]Like, but cuz it's it's sad cuz like traumatizing.

[00:08:41]Sorry, guys. I just watched Land Before Time and you'll you'll hear little bits of like what my thoughts are when that comes out, but and and kind of plot points with that. But like that I feel like in that way that one kind of started the uh traumatizing thing. I'm not going to spoil him before time too much, but if you haven't seen it, if you haven't seen it and you want to get my thoughts on it with spoiler-free, please watch it now. Please watch it now. um as soon as possible.

[00:09:14]I couldn't find it on any streaming service that I owned, so I bought the DVD. I promise it's worth it. Promise it's worth it if you have a DVD player or a way to watch a DVD.

[00:09:30]Anyway, continuing on, I feel like we we need to maybe I'm crazy. I'm like, can we can we kind of start killing some cartoon characters off? I know this is mean, but I'm like, it it it creates so much more development when we're not playing it safe with characters.

[00:09:51]I'm sorry. Especially when like it doesn't reflect if it's a big part of the original story that you're adapting, adapt it.

[00:10:01]Anyway, the opening of the film was originally intended to show the Doberman's killing Oliver's parents, using Oliver's motivation as revenge, but I'm sure this was cut as we don't need any more on-screen parent deaths.

[00:10:13]Yes.

[00:10:14]However, I would appreciate an on-screen death or two. We haven't had one of those in a while.

[00:10:24]I say as I think Sykes in this movie literally has one of the most gruesome villain deaths. I mean villain deaths in Disney are kind of brutal period the end. But um this one's kind of cuz this is the real world. So like seeing this happen, it's not a fantasy film. So like seeing this happen, you're like yikers.

[00:10:49]It's kind of crazy. And I forgot it happened until it did. Um, an open audition was held to cast the voices for this film. They wanted voices to believably represent the rich diversity of voices in New York. Apparently, there were a lot of rewrites of dialogue which meant multiple recording sessions. The voice acting was recorded over the span of 2 years with each session lasting 2 to three hours. Andre Deja designed the basic look for the characters while Mike Gabriel added extra details. An animal trainer brought in each of the breeds in the film in order to serve as reference for the animators. After being cast, the characters were altered to match their voice performances a little bit. The technique of taking photos of a dog's perspective for reference from Lady in the was used.

[00:11:39]The characters movements at times were based on the actor's movements while recording. I feel like this is like one of the first ones to do that. Um, I mean without like having liveaction footage referenced because a lot of the actors would do that but like I feel like this is the start of doing it only from the voice lines perspective.

[00:12:05]Um, the walking and running movements of the characters were inspired and studied from Lady in the and 101 Dalmatians. In fact, there are some of the characters from those movies in this movie.

[00:12:21]Dang. Let me just tell you like Peg's in this movie from Lady in the That's not Peg cuz this is the8s and that takes place at around the turn of the century. That is Peg's like great grandchild or something like that. And then like there's a Pongo looking puppy.

[00:12:38]Don't ask me how they got here from London. Don't ask me how they got to New York from London. But that probably is um what's it called? Probably his like probably his kid, his child.

[00:12:55]Maybe possibly his grandchild cuz 1961.

[00:13:00]Yeah. The animators apparently have said that Jenny was the most difficult character to animate as humans are more difficult than animals. I also noticed in the movie, this was like a weird art style choice. She doesn't have pupils at all.

[00:13:20]Some of the movie is CGI, namely the Brooklyn Bridge. Um, like so I'd say like almost all of the subway chase finale is CGI with the music. There was an intention to not have the musical numbers stop the story, rather to have these songs be an extension of the characters and their desires. Each song is written by different composers at different times with many different composers submitting songs, but most did not fit what was wanted in Oliver and Company. This is the first Disney animated film to include realworld advertising, meaning that it has company logos in the film itself.

[00:14:08]So like Times Square, you see Kodak and Coca-Cola and all those things. And I think the choice that they made is because it wouldn't feel like New York if Times Square wasn't advertising those things.

[00:14:23]Oliver and Company debuted at fourth place in the box office opening weekend, grossing 11.2 million when adjusted for inflation. It ended up grossing $279.1 million worldwide and beat out an American tale for the highest grossing animated film in its initial run. After the re-release, the domestic lifetime gross is 192.4 million when adjusted for inflation. I couldn't find the worldwide gross. That is the domestic gross.

[00:15:00]Oliver and company got miss mixed reviews from the critics with the music and vocal performances being praised while others did not like the music, found the animation to be uninspired, and that the story declines throughout the film.

[00:15:14]The characters from Oliver and Company appear in House of Mouse. I believe they also were in the parks. Let me double check that.

[00:15:33]Oh, they were a part of a Magic Kingdom parade in 1988, actually.

[00:15:41]Um, yeah, they were in the Yeah, Magic Kingdom Parade in 1988.

[00:15:52]I think that they used to meet. I just don't think they do anymore from my cursory research.

[00:16:00]Um cuz I can't imagine Disney didn't try to capitalize on this movie cuz it was the8s and they wanted to capitalize on everything at that time.

[00:16:17]Yeah. So anyway, continuing on. This is the last Disney animated movie to completely use hand painted cell animation. Thank you so much for watching up to this point and stay tuned for my husband and I's thoughts on Oliver and Company.

[00:16:40]So, we just finished Oliver and Company and I liked it. I will say I've seen this one before. Um, this is one of the ones like I think I said this in my uh Adventures of Ikabot and Mr. code video that there was a few Disney movies that my grandparents had that I only watched at their house cuz we didn't own them. Oliver and Company is one of them.

[00:17:07]And it's crazy because I only remembered like maybe even just a third of Oliver and Company for some odd reason. Like I knew like there there's Billy Joel as a dog and he does this little song with the sausages and they drag all around the dirty New York street. Um, and I remember that one. Um, and then I don't really remember anything until, well, like it's kind of bits and pieces.

[00:17:35]Like I didn't remember much until he was with Jenny and then I remember Georgette's iconic song and then the we're in good company, you and me. I don't know why I mimic a child singing so well. I don't know why.

[00:17:48]I just do. Um, and then I remembered like the very very end and that's all. I did not remember anything about the villain. I did not remember anything about Fagan.

[00:18:04]None of that.

[00:18:05]>> I mean, to be fair, M Mr. Fagan is kind of like a forgettable side character.

[00:18:10]Like, he he's there for the plot, you know?

[00:18:12]>> Mhm.

[00:18:12]>> He's a good guy, though. I I do like his character, but you know, he is he is one that I don't blame someone for not remembering.

[00:18:21]>> Yeah.

[00:18:23]I think I saw something online about like Jenny and Penny being similar, and I severely disagree.

[00:18:34]>> I could kind of see it, but not not for the apparent reasons.

[00:18:40]I mean, this is based on Oliver Twist.

[00:18:43]However, I have not read Oliver Twist, so I cannot say how accurate this is to Oliver Twist.

[00:18:50]>> Yeah, me neither.

[00:18:51]>> Um, something that we talked about, and this is not a a problem, but this is the most 80s movie you will ever watch in your entire life. The score is very jazzy, which is very 80s. It has that '8s jazz kind of vibe in a score.

[00:19:06]>> Um, >> not 80s Jen. Don't call it '8s Jenk. I love it's >> I love the 80s9s jazzy uh film scores.

[00:19:14]They're like kind of my favorite. But like come on guys, it's Billy Joel as a dog in New York. You're already getting pretty 80s with that.

[00:19:23]>> Well, I was going to say like for like a comparable movie that's like incredibly 80s makes me think of um a Goofy Movie >> that's 90s honey.

[00:19:32]>> Really? I couldn't tell the difference.

[00:19:34]Like I feel like they both kind of do that same thing with the really really aggressive of the time. But this is late 80s, isn't it? So I guess >> it's late 80s and I think that Goofy movie was mid '9s. So >> yeah. Okay.

[00:19:48]>> This also this gives um if you've seen Three Men and a Baby, it also feels very late '8s. It's the same vibes, but ironically it's also late '8s New York.

[00:19:58]But like they hit the nail on like every New York stereotype in this movie >> and the Twin Towers are there.

[00:20:06]>> Yes.

[00:20:07]>> How old were you when the Twin Towers fell? I was not born yet.

[00:20:10]>> Me neither. Not existent. Wouldn't it exist for every two years?

[00:20:13]>> Put down in the comments how old how old you were when the Twin Towers fell because I have never actually seen the Twin Towers in person because I was not alive. But top of the movie I was like, "Oh, those are the Twin Towers.

[00:20:28]Hello, Twin Tower.

[00:20:29]>> Hello, Twin Tower.

[00:20:31]>> What a wonderful monument. I think you'd get about no national tragedy happens to it.

[00:20:37]>> You'd get about 10 years, 10 good years and you left, you know.

[00:20:41]>> Y >> but yeah, there's there's things that are very very incredibly 80s. Uh the concept of a child being able to leave the house to go find her cat and nobody notice. Incredibly >> true. That is very true. though I could I could not not to like defend the movie or defend the time, but I do also could see that like because her parents aren't really around that it could just be that she's used to that of like just minimal supervision cuz you have the scene where she's cooking and she's like used to every single thing in the kitchen and the housekeeper didn't even notice till he was like conveniently wandering in and seeing the mess she made.

[00:21:23]>> I love Geette. Georgette's iconic. See, it's funny cuz I like love every single character in this movie except for Billy Joel just kind of gives a nothing burger performance.

[00:21:35]Like, not that he's bad. It just his character isn't memorable to me as much as the other ones.

[00:21:41]>> His character is kind of the inciting event and then kind of hangs around as like a pseudo like leader kind of character. Well, that's what the artful dodger is in Oliver Twist.

[00:21:55]>> I've not I've not read Oliver Twist, so I'll take your word on it.

[00:21:58]>> I don't know much, but I do know some things. Yeah, >> apparently there's a Hulu show about the Artful Dodger. Don't quote me on that. I think there is. But um >> anyway, there's also a musical called Oliver. I've used one of the clips from it in my video.

[00:22:17]It's the Please, sir, can I have some more?

[00:22:21]Um, don't know the context for that, but please sir, can I have some more? Um, yeah. I don't know. Like, to me, I like this movie. It's just not S tier. Like, it's not my favorite.

[00:22:39]Like, it's just a movie, you know? Like, you're going to have a good old time.

[00:22:42]And also, if you want to be nostalgic for like the '8s, good movie to be nostalgic for the '8s. And I don't think it's really one that I'd have a critique for, though. So, it's not like it's not like it's bad or anything. I just I think it's like we said, it's it's the the memorability that I feel like it kind of loses a bit on. And maybe that comes because I've not read Oliver Twist. But to be fair, most kids have not read Oliver Twist, who the movie is marketed towards.

[00:23:09]>> And so, I I feel like that might be a pretty common sentiment for kids.

[00:23:15]>> I think Oliver Twist is like a children's book.

[00:23:18]It's a pretty popular children's book.

[00:23:20]>> I'll be honest, I didn't hear about it till I was in high school.

[00:23:24]Like, I just had never heard of it.

[00:23:26]>> Well, it's just a pretty popular book in general. Um, like it is the orphan story.

[00:23:36]I don't know. Like, Annie in some ways is based off of Oliver Twist and like all these.

[00:23:40]>> My family was an Annie family. The original >> My family was also an Annie family.

[00:23:45]>> Yeah. But we were the original musical Annie family. And then and then the the Disney the ABC version with Christian Chennow with as Lily and like >> listen the redhead kid.

[00:23:59]>> All of them are redhead kids.

[00:24:02]>> No, the ABC one has the black lady.

[00:24:05]>> No, that's the 2014 one.

[00:24:07]>> Oh, >> the ABC one has a redhead kid, too.

[00:24:10]>> Oh, I don't know.

[00:24:11]>> That's the one with Kathy Bates in it as Hanigan. I don't know what happened.

[00:24:15]>> I didn't watch the Carol Bernett one until I was in elementary school. Like I um I watched it on a rainy day when I was 10 >> in class. So, um I'm not going to side tangent about Annie. I'm actually going to cut this out, but um I'll talk to you about it.

[00:24:37]So, the thing is there's a lot of details from the musical that are either not in the movie or the movie, the original movie, the '8s one. Judge Up.

[00:24:51]>> I fear we need to move on. Um, Jenny, I wish Jenny had more screen time. Like I feel I think my problem with this movie is while it does so much so quickly and it's very fast-paced, I feel like that's part of the issue. I don't know, maybe my preference is I just want to see her and Oliver and be happy and be cute together rather than the boy slums and me, you know?

[00:25:22]>> No, I do get that. We don't really see too much of the big city life. I feel like there could be a little bit more like friction on that cuz that's kind of the key point of the conflict, right? Is like Oliver clearly is happy in this better place, >> but he doesn't want to just dump out the only people he's really ever knew.

[00:25:42]>> Yeah. I feel like there's like a weird kind of third act conflict style thing with him and Dodger, but then it doesn't amount to anything because Jenny gets kidnapped.

[00:25:55]No, >> which makes sense. Also, dude, that death, I don't remember the villain's name. Oh, Sykes. Sykes.

[00:26:03]>> Sykes. That's right. That was brutal.

[00:26:06]Like I was like, dang, >> it was crazy. Yeah, >> that entire scene was kind of >> like And this is this is getting to like more modern Disney where they like started to shy away from that. That was kind of >> No, I don't think it was. They shied away from that. They were not like I think if you see Little Mermaid and stuff and you see Beauty and the Beast and >> Okay. Like the Renaissance they kind of had a return to that.

[00:26:29]>> Dude, Clayton's death in Tarzan.

[00:26:31]>> Well, I was like I've not seen Tarzan but I think I know what you're talking about.

[00:26:34]>> You'll see. It's >> It's kind of brutal, too.

[00:26:37]>> It's kind of brutal, too.

[00:26:38]>> Makes me think of like Scar Scar's death is kind of brutal.

[00:26:42]>> But I was meaning like modern Disney would never >> Well, never >> would never. Well, I think I think they just went back to that classic Disney climax moment in that moment. Like if I mean, if you think about it, like just like the dramatics of it, it hearkens back to like the the climax with um with the evil queen and with Maleficent and with like even just going back to like their latest release, which was um The Great Mouse Detective with Ratigan. you just you see this like these beautiful dramatic scenes and it's kind of cool.

[00:27:22]Um I like the music. The music's good.

[00:27:26]It's nothing wholly memorable, you know?

[00:27:31]>> Yeah.

[00:27:32]>> I don't like that half of the songs is just Billy Joel being Billy Joel. Like I don't have any problem with Billy Joel.

[00:27:40]I just feel like they tied way too much to him when he didn't really have legs to stand on as an actor outside of >> outside of the musical numbers.

[00:27:54]>> The musical numbers like maybe they just didn't give him a good character cuz I feel like he acted well. It is just character. Artful Dodger didn't do >> no >> like he he did stuff. I do like the song. I do like the song. I liked the starting song, the opening number. That was really good. And I I liked the um the song that he sings. Um I think it establishes his character a lot. Like I think we talked recently because we watched a um interesting musical movie. I'm not going to name names, >> but we talked about how musical numbers need to advance the story. And in that movie they didn't really express the story and express the story or express like I think um it was Howard Ashman who said that like musical numbers need to move the story forward.

[00:28:50]>> So >> like I understand not moving the story forward with a song. Obviously it's it's good story writing technique to do.

[00:28:57]>> Here's the thing. A a good musical has a song that moves the story forward. Even if it's just we get a peak into who that character is a little bit more and their desires a tiny bit more. You know, >> that's that's what I was going to say is like I think it's good writing advice to go with that idea to like make your song have the intention because you only have a limited amount of time on the screen, right? Hour, hour and a half to two hours spent on the movie you want. You want to utilize the time you have. In the case of movies, obviously in musicals, it's a little different. Uh like plays and whatnot, it's a little different, but in the case of movies, you do have a limited amount of time.

[00:29:35]So, the song has to either invol or should involve the plot or mean something. But I don't think there's really a problem. Uh but I think it's like you said, it has to be a song that is important. It has to express something in the story at minimum, if not move the plot along. Makes me think of like um Mulan. They have the song in the beginning where she's expressing how she feels and how she she feels that she can't be herself.

[00:30:02]>> That's her I want song. Do you know what an I want song is?

[00:30:04]>> Yes. You've told me about about Disney princesses and stuff.

[00:30:09]>> No, it's not just Disney princesses.

[00:30:11]It's like all characters in a musical have an I want song.

[00:30:15]>> Okay. Well, she's expressing her I want song. And I feel like even though the song itself isn't moving the plot forward, it is still being used to express an angle in the story.

[00:30:28]>> Mhm.

[00:30:29]>> You know, >> yeah, I fully agree. And I think that his song, like I think something that I like about the music in this film is it's not a lot. There's not a lot of music. It's not bursting into song every two seconds. I thought that's what it was going to be because the two songs at the beginning were back to back and I was like, "Oh my gosh, if we get Billy Joel singing this entire movie." Um, no hate, no hate, no hate to Billy Joel, but I'm like, I don't want an entire movie, you know, that's just I don't want to say singing for no reason because I do love musical numbers and singing, but I I think what I hate is singing for no reason. If you're singing, you have to be saying something.

[00:31:11]>> Mhm. you know. Um, and something that I like is once if you start monologuing, an audience is going to go, but if you put it in a song >> all of a sudden the audience is like, Billy Joel's singing. Billy Joel's singing and I'm listening. Um, something >> the other thing, now I know this isn't what you're getting at, but I would say the other thing that's lost a lot with monologues, at least in modern writing, is the idea of expressiveness. Like, if I'm writing something, so I I like to casually write. I I'm not really publishing or anything, but I like and I have a character who's exposing something at some point, you know, they're talking about something for a while. I like to describe it less of like a speech and more of like I'm sitting at a campfire and I'm telling you this story that's going on. You know, it's not that oh, you know, the knight went and he slayed the beast to save the princess. It's instead something like the na the knight was marching across you know the the wood and the wood bridge as he was on his horse and you know the clumping of it was loosening some of the boards below into the into the moat that surrounds the castle and you know he's charging in at full speed with his sword at the ready to slay the dragon uh and and so on and so forth. Um, but I feel like, you know, kind of monologues also, like you said, can be well expressed through a song.

[00:32:50]>> And that's a creative way. Like, if I think about like the way that he does his Why should I Worry, it shows so much of the artful Dodgers or sorry, Dodger in this one, but Dodger's character without having to just do the cliche of I don't really care, you know? I'm I'm different. And I'm like, in some ways, I really do not like cinema now because, hey, can you just sing it?

[00:33:18]>> Yeah.

[00:33:19]>> If you're going to come out and say it, just sing it.

[00:33:22]>> Yeah.

[00:33:22]>> Because at least I get a little nice fun.

[00:33:25]>> Have musical numbers.

[00:33:26]>> Hey, Marvel.

[00:33:30]>> How about instead of making cheesy all lines or just cinema in general right now? Instead of making cheesy a lines that make me feel like you're trying to think I'm stupid, how about you sing them instead?

[00:33:44]>> I'm mainly just joking. I know Marvel's not one like that. I know, but like I'm I'm kind of over here like it's it's like there was there's a part in the movie like the musical movie that we watched and it talked about it was a scene where the couple was having a disagreement and I felt like That scene would have been so much more emotionally charged if they had taken a few more minutes to not just have a conversation, but to sing it.

[00:34:25]Because here's the thing. I love opera.

[00:34:27]It's so dramatic, you know, but I think part of the drama is, you know, it's you feel emotions, you know, you feel that it's important to the characters, but in that moment, it didn't feel like the fight was important. So, when the husband was all upset and singing about how he missed her, I'm like, I feel nothing.

[00:34:52]>> I was also going to say, not only do does like a song make it feel more emotional, but it also like grabs the audience's attention. You know, a regular argument between two characters is like an argument. You know, they're shouting at each other. They're um and you can make an argument interesting, but in this movie, they did not. It was very much like a third act conflict, you know, that stereotype. Uh, of >> it was third act conflict before third act conflict really became a thing too.

[00:35:23]Like this movie was from like I don't know 50.

[00:35:26]>> I would even say a third act conflict.

[00:35:28]It was probably more of a third act misunderstanding, which is the even worse trope that I don't like.

[00:35:33]>> Oh my gosh. We'll get into this because the further we get into Disney, the more we'll get into the third act misunderstanding slash conflict. So, okay, let me um let me tie it back in.

[00:35:46]Something I appreciate about this movie is the third act conflict did not third act conflict because Jenny got kidnapped.

[00:35:53]>> Yeah.

[00:35:55]>> And I appreciate that. Thank you. Cuz Dodger like totally could have third act conflict with um with Oliver and even I made a comment I think about it third act conflicting and you were like I think it's too early for this to be the third act conflict and you were right.

[00:36:12]They faked out us and I'm glad they did.

[00:36:16]I'm so glad they did because >> yeah they kind of saved the blood.

[00:36:20]There's nothing I hate more because at the time it the third act conflict would not have been a cliche yet now.

[00:36:31]I hate third act conflicts.

[00:36:35]Get them out of cinema. But back to Oliver and Company. I honestly like this movie is really good. Like I like the music. I like the um I like the songs. The songs aren't don't have much substance to them though.

[00:36:55]>> Yeah, but they're not bad.

[00:36:56]>> But they're not bad.

[00:36:57]>> Like there's even songs on You like the the Georgette song?

[00:37:00]>> I like the Georgette song. I like Good Company. I think it's cute.

[00:37:04]>> Yeah. So like like it's not like there's any of them you hate. It's just kind of like there's none of them that you're like absolutely banger. we're coming to watch this movie to, you know, listen to this specific song.

[00:37:16]>> I mean, >> I would kind of watch the movie just for Geette's song, but that's neither here nor there.

[00:37:22]>> I think the cast of characters is fun.

[00:37:25]Um, I think it's definitely I think the cast of side characters >> is the best out of any of these Disney animal movies. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, I lied.

[00:37:40]minus Aristocrats. I mean, the Disney dog movies. So, like Lady Lady in the has good ones. I'd say it's on par with Lady in the and it's better than 101.

[00:37:51]>> Yeah, I'd probably say it's better. It kind of sucks cuz I do think 101 has a lot of good >> animal side characters, but I don't feel like they have the same punch that Aristocats and um >> Lady and the do. Yeah. So, the the side characters feel on par with those movies in this one. I like the side characters.

[00:38:11]>> And I know this one isn't really a dog movie, but if you squint your eyes hard enough, it kind of is. Like Fox and the Hound has a lot of really good side characters, too. But, you know, not I I don't know if I'd exactly fit it in the same bin.

[00:38:25]>> I wouldn't I'd compare Fox and the Hound to Bambi.

[00:38:28]>> Yeah. Um, but yes, I and maybe that's just because of the owl, but no, I digress. Um, maybe it's more of the forestation.

[00:38:44]>> I am just as educated as you.

[00:38:50]Um, anyway, but like I don't know. I I don't I feel like due to personal preference I wouldn't put it in S tier, but it's definitely high A.

[00:39:06]>> Yeah.

[00:39:07]>> Like >> I would say mid mid high A. Like mid high A.

[00:39:10]>> I think the thing that really holds it back and maybe this is just by the nature of Oliver Twist is it doesn't have that memorability punch that a lot of others have.

[00:39:20]>> And I again that might that might just be because of the nature of Oliver Twist. So I don't I don't blame them one bit. I've not seen the source material, but I would say that that's the only thing that for sure would keep it out of S. Uh I would maybe even say keeps it out of the higher part of A.

[00:39:38]>> You know what's crazy?

[00:39:42]>> I think the only reason that we might not feel like a little bit nostalgic for this movie or like have a little bit of like it has that Disney chart and you want to know what it is. We're not millennials.

[00:39:56]>> No, because this time is more modern because it's set in in the time that it comes out in. And it's more modern meaning our parents were alive at the time that this movie came out. And so I think in that way, like our parents weren't alive, definitely not alive in the ' 40s when Dumbo came out. So it feels nostalgic.

[00:40:19]Um, and our parents were not alive in um in the '60s when 101 came out. So that has that nostalgic Disney feel. This one I feel doesn't have that nostalgic Disney punch because it's a little too modern. And in a way, can I say that it kind of doesn't make it timeless because it's this Disney80s time capsule.

[00:40:42]>> Yeah. I I think it is it is what's the best way I could put it? I guess like I kind of compared earlier to the Goofy Movie. I feel like it is kind of a lot similar in that of like it clearly is not like I I feel like well we already were but like this this for sure is the deviation from traditional Disney you know like we've been out of that for a while but I feel like this is kind of that point where Disney is kind of in that more you know groovy wanting to try things out you know leading up to the renaissance of wanting to experiment again >> and I agree Um, I don't think that it was um that it did that well though, you know? I don't think Oliver and Company did that well.

[00:41:34]But I I do like this movie. I I like it. I just don't think that it's like, oh my gosh, pinnacle of Disney quality, you know? Like, I don't think it's a bad thing if you love this movie and have nostalgia for it. Heck, I have nostalgia for it because it it reminds me of being at my grandparents house, you know. Um >> I don't This is the first time I've seen it.

[00:41:59]>> Um but I I like it and it it's just like in a way like it's nostalgia for a time that you never lived. And I think that's kind of cool, you know?

[00:42:21]You need to leave.

[00:42:24]>> Nostalgia for a time we didn't live.

[00:42:25]We're making millennials feel like they're 40 years older than they are right now.

[00:42:30]>> Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.

[00:42:32]>> They'd be like, "What do you mean you guys didn't know that?" Like you guys weren't alive when the towers were still standing. What do you mean?

[00:42:40]>> Everyone has been.

[00:42:42]>> I'm middle of Gen Z. Kind of on the younger side. We're we're middle of Jenzie, kind of on the younger side. So, um yeah, I think can I just say Jenz is split between born before the tower spell, born after the tower spell, and that's that's not a joke. I I'm sorry.

[00:43:04]Um I understand that younger Jenzie needs to stop making fun of 911.

[00:43:11]>> 911 WAS BAD.

[00:43:14]WHY SHOULD I WORRY?

[00:43:17]Why should I care? What's What's the next line? It's um >> is it I'm living in the streets. I got that. Sewair. Is that how the line is?

[00:43:27]>> Seavois.

[00:43:28]>> No. Salvair.

[00:43:30]>> S.

[00:43:31]>> No. Savoair.

[00:43:33]>> Yeah, I had that right. Seavois.

[00:43:35]>> No. Salvoair.

[00:43:39]>> Whatever. I got the line. The important part. the part everyone memorized.

[00:43:44]>> Anyway, thank you so much for liking and commenting and subscribing. I think at this point we've probably hit 150 subscribers.

[00:43:54]So, you do not want to see what he just did right now.

[00:44:00]Um, so thank you so much for your support and if you're new here, um, thank you so much, uh, and thank you for following my journey. Um, the next video will be The Land Before Time. So, >> woohoo! Trauma again.

[00:44:19]Yeah, >> trauma.

[00:44:22]>> Oh, you don't know?

[00:44:24]>> No, I haven't seen it.

[00:44:25]>> I've only seen the beginning of it.

[00:44:28]That's what I say.

[00:44:29]>> Uh oh. Are we getting into traumatizing children's movies now?

[00:44:33]>> I won't say. I won't say.

[00:44:35]>> Like we haven't been before. We've been doing the beginning like we haven't seen Bambi >> anyway. Do you want to say goodbye?

[00:44:45]>> Byebye. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.