Jerome QUESTIONS a Protestant on the Canon of Scripture! (PART 2)

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[00:00:01][music] >> in the Jewish canon before Christians came that Esther was part of the canon.

[00:00:10]That's all I'm asking.

[00:00:13]Oh, yeah. Number number one, it's literally the same argument. You're saying, "Oh, well, Christians tell us that these were always part of the canon. The Jews have always told us this is part of the Old Testament canon. When did the Jews tell you that?

[00:00:28]>> I got more I got more uh Okay, when did the Jews tell you that? Did they tell you that before or after Jesus?

[00:00:36]>> [clears throat] >> Hold on. So, is that before or after Jesus?

[00:00:41]Uh the Old Testament is before Jesus. No, I'm asking you in the earliest of books.

[00:00:47]You know my question is very clear. So, so look, the very clear question I asked you is, do the Jews before Jesus' birth tell you the books of the Old Testament?

[00:00:57]Do they tell you these are the books that we want in our scripture? Do they tell you that?

[00:01:05]They all had them. Cool. It was common knowledge. I don't think it was as common as you think because otherwise we should see before Jesus is born the Jews just saying, "This is our texts."

[00:01:17]Because actually what we see is Christians using texts, right? And they use it to instruct, they use it to explain, they use it for wisdom and authority and what have you. And then as time goes on when a list of books is required to be given for the safety of the community or for a community to be on the same page, they give a list.

[00:01:41]And they say there may be others that are less important. Stick with these main ones, but there are others probably less important but still cool, still come from God, okay?

[00:01:50]But you don't see that from Jews until Christians enter the picture. And then obviously we're not going to listen to Jews after the time of Jesus.

[00:01:58]We're going to listen to Jews before the time of Jesus cuz after the time of Jesus they're corrupt in their opinion.

[00:02:03]>> Uh when Jesus came All right.

[00:02:05]>> are you saying that Israel did not know what what the canon of the Old Testament was?

[00:02:12]I'm saying that if Israel knew what the canon of the Old Testament was, the data doesn't support it only being 39 books.

[00:02:19]It probably supports it being more. For example, before the time of Jesus, you have the Septuagint, right? And the Septuagint was around the Hellenized Jewish communities in the Roman Empire that people would have used. That's probably the text that Jesus probably would have utilized in his day, right?

[00:02:34]Because in And how do you know that?

[00:02:36]Because historically ancient synagogi became the normal practice rather than sacul second temple theology due to the abundance of Pharisaic Jews that were in the region rather than Sadduceic Jews that controlled the temple court specific specifically specifically. So when Jesus >> all these are are claims on like how do you prove that? How do you prove that?

[00:02:56]Well, you can look at the document of the Septuagint as existing. The earliest scripts that we have for that are going to be around 200 to 150 BC.

[00:03:04]So that comes before Christ.

[00:03:06]Now again >> look at what for example? You look at the fact that the Septuagint is going to be a translation from Hebrew into Greek.

[00:03:14]But that Hebrew to Greek translation is a monumental effort to translate more than third more than 40 books and then compose them into a single volume takes money, time, effort and actually an entire community of people that would need those texts. It wouldn't just be the enterprise of one rich person because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

[00:03:32]At least not a Jewish community person at the time in 200 BC that don't have money that have been estranged from their community so far.

[00:03:43]So you're saying the Septuagint is is more accurate than the other texts.

[00:03:50]I'm I'm not talking about whether they're more accurate. I'm telling you that whatever canon you want to use, the documents that we have around the period seem to support a canon that is more than 39 books.

[00:04:04]You are defending a 39 book Jewish canon that is post-Christianization.

[00:04:09]I'm defending or seem to be defending a canon that can be defended to at least 150 years before Christ was ever born.

[00:04:18]Right? Now, you have a Jewish canon that is 39 books. So I'm I'm assuming your your Old Testament canon >> Well, whatever the Septuagint books includes, I'm happy with because that seems to be popular among that Jewish community at the time.

[00:04:34]But you don't have a canon, for example, do you have a canon of Old Testament books, right, that don't include the Apocrypha before the time of Jesus?

[00:04:44]Uh nowhere was the Apocrypha ever accepted by the Jews.

[00:04:50]The Septuagint. It was made by Hellenized Jews.

[00:04:54]Uh yeah, the Septuagint is a Greek Yeah.

[00:04:58]translation of the Hebrew.

[00:05:01]Okay, so if it's a Greek translation of the Hebrew, then it's a translation. The whole >> Which means which means the Hebrew is the original, not the Septuagint.

[00:05:09]>> follow with me here, okay? If it's a translation of the Hebrew, that means the whole thing is a translation of the Hebrew, right? The whole thing.

[00:05:19]That would include the Apocrypha that was in Hebrew, which would mean the Apocrypha, by your merits, would be in the original.

[00:05:28]Cuz they are translating it from Hebrew to Greek for Jews.

[00:05:34]You don't have a canon before Jesus where the Apocrypha is not mentioned.

[00:05:41]Maybe after the time of Jesus, but by that time we're focusing on Christians, right? We're not focusing on Jews anymore.

[00:05:48]So, look, uh well, after this discussion, I'll I'll go into the um iconography issue.

[00:05:53]How do we No, no, no. How to verify the Old the Old Testament canon? We should probably We should probably do that.

[00:05:59]>> the Apocrypha. We should probably do that now as a discussion now.

[00:06:02]>> that, Pete, uh did you want to say anything, Pete?

[00:06:07]Uh One second. I want to use the bathroom quickly because uh I have to go pee, if that's okay.

[00:06:14]So, yeah. Yeah, okay.

[00:06:15]>> Absolutely not.

[00:06:19]>> [laughter] >> All right. I'm I'm going to go pee. I don't I don't I don't I don't see how that was like That That's cool, bro. Anyways, cool.

[00:06:25]I'm I'm coming back.

[00:06:27]Yeah, what's up? I'm back.

[00:06:29]>> [snorts] >> Let's take uh just so you know, uh before we go there, um just so you know, like um Yo. One No, I I I I do not agree with the fact that You can call me Pete if you want to.

[00:06:43]Okay.

[00:06:43]>> Um I don't agree with the fact that, you know, your man trying to, you know, frame the conversation. That's not a good way of especially in the uh in us talking. See what I mean?

[00:06:56]Uh well, yeah, just It's just It's just me saying.

[00:07:02]But, uh What happened?

[00:07:04]Did something happen when I left? In the chat It's just in the chat, but yeah.

[00:07:08]>> care about the chat, man. It's fine.

[00:07:09]Like It's It's cool.

[00:07:10]>> I know. It's just It was just a little look, and then they were like, "Bro, you know."

[00:07:15]>> It's fine. Who cares?

[00:07:17]But, um but my my question is that um my question is that uh you said that the canon was, you know, built by a community, by a church?

[00:07:28]Like, you know, Yeah, sure. That seemed That seemed Yeah, it was administered by a community of people. Right.

[00:07:34]Well, then, what Like, what church did that?

[00:07:38]Okay, so, for the purposes of this discussion, uh the Orthodox Church. It doesn't matter. My point is is that there was a historical community of people there. I need to ask though. I need to ask >> Why?

[00:07:49]Why? This is what I see. What I see between Catholic and Orthodox, they both say that they are the true church. So?

[00:07:55]And but then At least they're more honest to Christian history than not, right? The church is one and the church is true. So, either they're correct. How do you know? How do you know the church is true because there are so many like >> Because the church has four marks and whoever represents the four marks of the church better, as well as who actually has the continuity of the faith, would probably be the best representation. But my issue is not with that. You're moving to hey Sig, how do you know that this this church is the true church to actually the topic at hand, which is how do you know Esther was inspired by God, which is more fundamental. Unless unless you want to concede that actually the administration of the church is more fundamental than scripture. If you say that then sure, we can have that debate.

[00:08:34]You didn't give me a chance to talk.

[00:08:35]Okay, bye. Okay, look. Why are you Why are you Okay, cool.

[00:08:42]Okay. That's the problem.

[00:08:42][clears throat] It's a problem or I'm I was saying Because I was Because I was trying to Because I was trying to clear my point.

[00:08:48]Because I was trying to clear my point.

[00:08:51]So, what are we talking about right now?

[00:08:54]We're talking about Esther?

[00:08:56]No, I'm not talking about Esther. I'm I'm asking about church. I'm asking about what is going on. That's that's irrelevant. If I told you hey, I'm looking Cuz I'm an inquirer into Orthodoxy, it doesn't matter. problem.

[00:09:08]It's not a problem for me.

[00:09:10]It's not a problem for you, but this is a It's something that I want to know.

[00:09:13]What's wrong with trying to know something? Because if it isn't Okay, so so if it isn't a problem, then it's negligible to when there is an actual problem there, right? So, an actual problem is knowing whether a text is inspired by God or not. What isn't a problem is someone inquiring into another church.

[00:09:29]Right? Now, I was very clear with Christian King and Christian King one second. Christian King can affirm this that I said for the purposes of this discussion, I'll defend the Orthodox position.

[00:09:40]Was I not clear when I said that, Christian King?

[00:09:42]I know it's clear, but like Okay, so then just take it at that. It doesn't matter. in my point, can I have a chance to explain my point? Sure.

[00:09:50]Can I have a chance to do that? Yeah, go ahead. Instead of you you trying to talk over me. I'm not talking over you. You said you're going to let me speak. So I'll talk you just did it to me. I will because I wasn't Look, I tend to stop in between my sentences.

[00:10:03]Uh-huh. It's a form of a sentence.

[00:10:05]That's the first thing. Second English is not my thing. English is not my mother tongue. That's why it had to be slow. Okay, I'm I'm pretty confused as to why this um idea of the Catholic language >> American. Look, I'm not American and English is not my mother tongue.

[00:10:20]>> So, neither is it mine, okay?

[00:10:24]So, It's not my mother tongue either, so you know. Can I now Can I now explain my point?

[00:10:30]>> Yeah, go ahead.

[00:10:32]All right.

[00:10:33]So, my point is My point is that Orthodox and So, this guy's basically going to waffle about this whole thing.

[00:10:41]and they they both say >> And he's just going to keep doing this thing. So, they form the canon.

[00:10:46]Then how can I know which one is true?

[00:10:48]In case, let's say I'm an atheist, how can I know which one is true to follow?

[00:10:52]Okay.

[00:10:52]>> That's my Yeah, that's not how canon works. So, just to bear in mind, okay?

[00:10:56]You weren't here before in the discussion, okay?

[00:10:59]But if you were here, you would have heard that actually both Catholic and Orthodox don't conceive of canon the way Protestants do, generally speaking.

[00:11:08]So, when the Catholics have more or less books than the Orthodox and things like this, it isn't an issue for communion or reunion. Why? Because canon [music] is for them the rule of measurement for determining the faith.

[00:11:21]>> [music] >> So, some books are going to be weighted higher than others.

[00:11:25]Luckily enough for Orthodox and Catholic communions, their weightings [music] are the same. Gospels, letters of Paul, letters of Peter and James, Catholic Epistles, same weighting. Torah, same weighting. Prophets [music] and Law, same weighting, okay? Psalms, same weighting. All other books [music] outside of the main weightings that I mentioned also are supplementary, although inspired [music] but supplementary. Some don't use them for their weighting, some do. That isn't a problem when you go [music] from region to region, from community commu- from community to community. Similar to the way that actually you can have different liturgical rites in the [music] Orthodox Church. You can have a Russian liturgical rite and you can have a Greek liturgical rite. Same Orthodoxy, >> [music] >> different rites, so they emphasize different things and they have different weightings for the things that they emphasize. That's why it's not a strict issue [music] for listing. That's why when Christian King comes up and needs you to bail him out for this list of books [music] and trying to debate what true church it is, that's irrelevant, okay? We're talking about something [music] more fundamental to you guys than the church, which is scripture, okay? Do you think the scripture is more fundamental or the church? Which one?

[00:12:30]Well, basically you are having a problem with sola scriptura. [music] I have an issue with how you know certain books are inspired by God.

[00:12:40]Because if you don't appeal to an outside community of Like for Let's take one of the books, right? Esther I used.

[00:12:46]The reason I used Esther is because it doesn't even mention God's name, >> [music] >> for one. For two, it isn't quoted by anyone in the New Testament. The only time it's quoted is by people like Clement of Rome, who [music] by the way in the same chapter quote Judith.

[00:13:02]So I guess Judith is inspired by God now as well, but that's in the Septuagint.

[00:13:05]So the only way Clement would be able to know about that book is if his Old Testament was Septuagint.

[00:13:11]Which would mean Clement's Old Testament was Septuagint.

[00:13:14]Now, before Christian King starts to speak, I need to know that it's Christian King speaking to me >> [music] >> and not mere raging Christian, if that's okay, cuz I can't speak to two people.

[00:13:22]>> So Sig, >> [clears throat] >> so let me just ask you this. Go ahead.

[00:13:25]You said that uh you know, which books are canon because the church tells you, this church community. Okay.

[00:13:33]How do they know what is canon?

[00:13:36]How do the church know How does the church know what's canon?

[00:13:41]Because the apostles that were alive would tell them physically by like word of mouth.

[00:13:47]The apostles would physically tell them.

[00:13:49]Now, the apostles are the only group of community of people that we can say are inspired by God, which is fine. I don't have any issue with that, but I don't see Paul telling you, "Hey, this book is inspired." like physically, so you know.

[00:14:02]So, how did how did, uh, So, how do you know that he told them that, uh, the book of Tobit is canon? Yeah. So, the way I know that is because the people that will inherit Paul's community as well as the people that were written, those Old Testament passages they would use would include things like Tobit. So, like I was saying before, when Clement of Rome, who was, you know, taught by Paul and things like this, quotes his Old Testament, Clement quotes the Apocrypha. He quotes Judith in actually the same text where he quotes Esther.

[00:14:39]So, that signals to us that actually his canon would include the 39 books plus Judith. Problem is, the only way Clement would know that is if he was reading the Septuagint cuz there's no other text that includes it. Unless you think there's a Hebrew version of Judith lying around somewhere, which you don't have evidence for.

[00:15:03]So, a- again though, like you said, Clement, uh, quotes this book. Yeah.

[00:15:09]>> How does he verify that that's canon?

[00:15:12]Like I said, because Clement was taught by Paul. Now, he was taught physically by Paul since he knows him by name.

[00:15:19]>> guarantee anything though.

[00:15:21]Why? Doesn't guarantee that he he won't move into heresy, that he has false teachings. You asked me you asked me how does Clement know this particular state.

[00:15:32]You didn't ask me how does Clement remain infallible. I don't believe Clement's infallible. What I do believe though is that Clement was taught correctly >> I'm saying you said that all because he was taught by Paul.

[00:15:42]>> Physically, yeah. Well, that doesn't mean anything.

[00:15:44]Why?

[00:15:47]Uh again, because he could be wrong. He could be teaching false doctrine.

[00:15:50]>> who Clement make a mistake? Okay, who is Clement of Rome?

[00:15:54]>> just because Clement was taught by Paul Okay. doesn't mean he can't be wrong. Okay, so do you think that Clement >> He's not an apostle. Okay, so if that's the issue >> Okay. Now, here's the issue with that, right? If that's the case, then Clement quote quoting any book would be under question, correct?

[00:16:15]Uh Cle- Clement is irrelevant because his writings are not scripture.

[00:16:18]>> asking I'm just asking >> divinely inspired. Wouldn't Clement quoting any book I'm just I'm just asking I'm just asking you wouldn't Clement quoting any book be irrelevant then?

[00:16:27]Uh I could give a rat's behind about what Clement said.

[00:16:30]>> Right. I mean, I don't really care about rat's behinds. I'm more focused on actually like Clement, you know. So, His writings and his beliefs don't matter to me.

[00:16:38]>> Okay, so do you think that >> He's not an apostle. Okay, he wasn't an apostle. Okay. Could Paul when he's teaching about Could Paul when he Is Paul your authority?

[00:16:50]Yeah, but Clement is not.

[00:16:51]>> Okay. Could Paul teach Clement what scripture is?

[00:16:56]Uh could could he like bro Does Paul have the ability as an Does Paul have the ability to teach someone what scripture is? Yes or no? I don't base my doctrine on oh, does he have the possibility or could he do this? Could he do that?

[00:17:12]>> you base your doctrine on could Christ save you? Yes, he can. Yes, >> doctrine evidence. Okay, that's not doctrine evidence number one. Number two, when you engage in a hypothetical, that's called being able to assess the specific parameters by which you're able to garner something. When you say, "Hey, I think it's impossible for a person to lose their salvation." You're engaging in hypotheticals. You're saying this is a modal situation which can't happen.

[00:17:34]All I'm saying is is there is a modal situation where this can happen.

[00:17:37]>> in hypotheticals. You're just Oh, couldn't Paul Isn't it possible for a part to do this?

[00:17:42]>> Okay, did Paul teach Clement? That That's your best argument.

[00:17:45]>> did Paul get It's not my best argument number one. Number two, the argument is fine as it is. I don't need I don't need I don't need I don't need a best one or not. Second, this isn't a trash argument cuz you can't engage in possibilities for some reason.

[00:17:57]Can Paul, right, and this is even easier >> possibilities is not proof for Paul.

[00:18:01]>> Okay, can Paul eat food?

[00:18:03]Yes.

[00:18:03]>> I don't base doctrine on possibilities.

[00:18:05]>> Okay, can Paul eat food though? Of course he can, right?

[00:18:08]>> Give me some solid proof. I don't have solid proof for you that like Paul physically ate potatoes, okay? But it's possible that he did. I don't have solid proof for you. But it's possible that Paul ate potatoes. Second, when it comes to Clement of Rome, okay? Clement of Rome, particularly, was taught by Paul.

[00:18:26]Therefore, it's fine. Therefore, Clement of Clement of Paul Clement of Rome, right, was taught how to garner doctrine, okay?

[00:18:37]Now, if Clement of Rome was taught other texts of scripture, he would also be taught Old Testament texts.

[00:18:43]Now, if he was taught Old Testament texts, this is the most important thing, Judith shouldn't be there.

[00:18:50]Now, what you're assuming, by the way, is how do you know Clement wasn't wrong?

[00:18:53]That's literally engaging in hypothetical. That's what you did.

[00:18:56]It's not my issue.

[00:18:57]I'm okay with engaging in hypothetical.

[00:18:59]>> it's just you you are claiming, "Oh, look, he made this argument." And I'm saying, "Okay, well, how do you prove that the argument that he made is true?"

[00:19:07]>> in a hypothetical. You're saying, "How can this thing be possible to be proven?"

[00:19:12]Okay. Proof can either exist or not exist, right? Proof either exists or it doesn't.

[00:19:18]When you ask me the question of how, you are now saying either you can do this or not. That's a 50/50 chance or 60/40.

[00:19:25]That's probability, hypothetical proof.

[00:19:26]That's what you're doing.

[00:19:30]And no, that's not a hypothetical question.

[00:19:32]>> What do you think a hypothetical question is?

[00:19:35]And and and second of all, like You're just not going to answer the question, are you? Clement is not my authority.

[00:19:39]You're just not going to answer the question. What Clement wrote literally has nothing to I'm not interested in anything Clement wrote because he's not an apostle.

[00:19:47]>> Okay.

[00:19:48]Okay, so anyone Okay, so anyone that isn't an apostle Okay, so anyone that isn't an apostle can't write scripture, correct?

[00:19:56]Mhm.

[00:19:58]Is Tatian an apostle?

[00:20:01]Who? Tatian of Iconium.

[00:20:05]Oh, you don't know who he is. Okay, the guy that wrote Romans for you.

[00:20:09]>> [clears throat] >> That's a scribe, bro. That's not an apostle.

[00:20:12]>> No, he's the person that wrote the entire letter.

[00:20:15]>> dishonest.

[00:20:16]>> being intellectually dishonest. He's the person that wrote the letter.

[00:20:19]>> He's literally the person that wrote down this letter.

[00:20:23]Yeah, it's it's called a scribe.

[00:20:25]>> Okay, can Tatian Okay, can Tatian mess up about what Paul is saying?

[00:20:31]Oh my god, there goes with your hypothetical.

[00:20:33]>> Can can he mess up with writing? How do you know he didn't mess up? How do you know he didn't mess up?

[00:20:37]Because this is in the inspired word of God. How do you know No, Tatian isn't an apostle.

[00:20:43]>> You know what's funny is that you doubt Hold hold on. You know what's funny?

[00:20:46]>> this is this is the interesting thing.

[00:20:48]>> you doubt Hey, calm down. I'm I'm fine.

[00:20:50]How do you know Tatian didn't mess up?

[00:20:53]>> Calm down, sir. Okay. You know what's funny?

[00:20:56]>> number one, I'm I appreciate that. Number two, >> [clears throat] >> could you please tell me how you know Tatian, right, >> [cough] >> didn't [clears throat] mess up writing the divine words of down. How do you know Tertius didn't mess up? You know what's funny? Mhm.

[00:21:13]Is that you doubt Tertius a scribe of I don't doubt I don't I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius. I don't doubt Tertius.

[00:21:53]>> on that level of teaching and morality and things. You're saying that Tertius of Iconium, who is a fallible person, isn't an apostle, somehow fallibly was able to write down the words of scripture correctly.

[00:22:07]How do you know that Tertius didn't mess up?

[00:22:10]That's the question.

[00:22:11]Now, the way I answer the question I'll >> this is an inspired word of God. Okay, but Tertius isn't inspired, is he?

[00:22:20]The letter is inspired by God. Okay, so no, Paul is inspired by God. The physical paper isn't. The words themselves aren't. Paul is. So, when Paul speaks on matters of faith and morality, >> Say, are you sure you're not an atheist?

[00:22:33]No, I'm not an atheist. I believe in God.

[00:22:36]I don't know why you keep asking me that, if I'm an atheist or not. Like, that's irrelevant, like, stick with the topic, right? Because you're making a lot of atheist arguments.

[00:22:42]>> really care if like a Muslim made these arguments. If a Muslim says 1 + 1 = 2, I'm not going to deny that. If an Arian says God exists, I'm not going to deny that, right?

[00:22:49]>> isn't We're not talking about 1 1 + 1.

[00:22:51]We're not talking about that either.

[00:22:53]We're not talking about atheism.

[00:22:54]We're not talking about atheism either.

[00:22:56]So, I don't know why you brought that up. Let's focus, right?

[00:22:58]>> This is This is what a uh cuz you're making the same arguments as they he Okay, so Arians make the argument that Jesus is God. That doesn't mean right? That the Arians are wrong because Arians make that argument. Sorry, I'm not Jesus is God, that God exists.

[00:23:13]Okay?

[00:23:14]In fact, Nestorians make the argument that Jesus is God, right? Doesn't mean that they're wrong because they're Nestorian. Okay?

[00:23:21]So, let's focus on the actual topic instead of trying to like brandish me as a certain type of category. I haven't done that to you, but you keep trying for some reason to do that to me.

[00:23:29]It's It's weird. But, I don't know why.

[00:23:32]You You keep interrupting me.

[00:23:35]Okay.

[00:23:36]>> going to drop you for now.

[00:23:38]Oh, you want to drop me?

[00:23:42]I haven't interrupted you, right?

[00:23:44]I've been as you know stringent as I can, right? I have to debate both of you. I have to talk to both of you about this, right?

[00:23:54]Was I not allowed to speak my point?

[00:23:56]Yeah, go ahead cuz Christian King isn't talking to you.

[00:23:58]>> ahead, P.

[00:24:01]Problem that I got was Okay, this is my my question for like, you know uh So, you know that uh the the Bible was let's say the canon the canon was, you know put up canonize everything every book like the books were canonized by a church by a community, but like who has the who has the highest authority to actually know the if it is canonized?

[00:24:27]Mhm.

[00:24:29]Who is that?

[00:24:32]To know what is canonized.

[00:24:34]Yeah.

[00:24:35]Who Who Who like, you know, you know, the whole community put it up.

[00:24:40]But, then is that it or is that like No, so that Let me do this, right? So, the apostles Okay, go ahead. It's fine. I was going to explain the thingy.

[00:24:50]Look.

[00:24:51]Again, my question is So, you said the cat the canon was put up like, you know like what we have right now. The canon was put up by a uh community or church, like church like house or whatever that is.

[00:25:07]But then how can you like who How can you know like it is Is what?

[00:25:13]And who who has the uh who has the the authority to say okay, this is now the canon?

[00:25:18]Okay, so again, this is important. You shouldn't think of canon as a fixed book set. It's not like the seven books of Narnia or like the seven eight books of Harry Potter, right? Scripture is just a rule for determining the faith.

[00:25:31]So some books of scripture are more important for that sort of catechesis than others. Like Luke, for example, is written specifically so that people can be confirmed and assured in the things that they're being instructed. That's Luke 1:1-4.

[00:25:47]Right? So the entire context Okay, Christian, can you stop talking to me again?

[00:25:52]Are you talking to me again?

[00:25:54]Yeah, just clarifying. Are you saying that the canon should be flexible?

[00:25:57]>> a reason why you weren't talking to me before? But I can answer your question.

[00:25:59]I just want to know maybe I'm like >> I'm letting I'm letting Pete talk, but >> Okay, so I'll talk to Pete then. Don't don't worry. I'll talk to you.

[00:26:07]Okay, so you weren't talking to me before, but now you're talking to me now.

[00:26:11]Bro, you kept interrupting.

[00:26:14]I'm not interrupting.

[00:26:15]>> let me let [clears throat] me let me say what I was going to say before you kept interrupting.

[00:26:20]Uh-huh. You you know what you know what's funny? Is that I don't I don't I really don't know.

[00:26:24]>> question Tertius.

[00:26:27]You're like, oh, how do you know he can't be wrong? I don't question Tertius. But you know what you don't do?

[00:26:33]You don't question Clement.

[00:26:35]Okay, so I want to be very >> You don't even think, oh, how do you know he isn't wrong? Okay, so number one, no, that's not what I do.

[00:26:42]>> are a follower of man, not of God's word.

[00:26:45]>> Okay, this is a whole thing. Okay, so look, number one, I don't question Tertius, neither do I question Clement.

[00:26:50]Two, I'm saying that on your schema, since you only accept apostles as individuals that can't get things wrong.

[00:26:58]Number one, and number two, as the only individuals that can pass and transmit the information that you rely on, that means that anyone else that isn't an apostle could get things wrong to transmit this information. Like you did with Clement. How do you know Clement couldn't be wrong? I said the same way we know that Tertius of Iconium isn't wrong either, because he got it from the source. So, my issue that I have is Tertius is actually part of that church's administration. He's the bishop of Iconium. He's the leader of the church of Iconium. Same with Clement, the leader of the church at Roma. My issue is is I actually trust that that administration gives me the books that I use, but you don't. So, you have to remove Tertius from the picture. You have to remove Clement from the picture.

[00:27:43]So, to not deviate from that, I'm going to go back to Asian Christian, or I can talk to you.

[00:27:48]How do you know Esther is inspired by God?

[00:27:52]Because you don't have Jews that tell you. This whole time you've tried to flick it back to me.

[00:27:58]Right? Hasn't worked. You need to answer the question, how do you know these texts were written inspired by God without relying on Christian communities telling you that?

[00:28:11]Yeah, no, you don't have to throw away a Tertius or say that uh he could be wrong. Because the difference is that Romans is inspired by God, not Clement. Is Tertius inspired by God?

[00:28:25]The letter of Romans that he wrote is inspired by God.

[00:28:28]>> But Tertius isn't inspired. The letter that he penned.

[00:28:30]>> So, the problem is is >> Yeah, this is not about the apostles.

[00:28:33]This is not about the apostles or or the scribes. Okay. How do you know >> of God is inspired by God.

[00:28:42]The >> didn't write a wrong word when he was penning this down?

[00:28:47]Bro.

[00:28:48]Bro. Okay, yeah, man. You you out of here.

[00:28:51]You going to just kick me?

[00:28:53]He's a He sounds like a atheist. Oh my god, you got angry. That's hilarious.

[00:28:59]>> you know? How do you know this is a