Atheist Should Not Have Said That l Speakers Corner

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]I see.

[00:00:00]>> I think I think we're all right then.

[00:00:03]I think we're good. We're safe.

[00:00:06]>> But I mean, you know, like like you see, it's just I find it I find it kind of um just >> like >> I find it troubling. You still don't believe in a god.

[00:00:18]>> Yeah.

[00:00:19]>> I'm I'm baffled. Even the comments, they're like >> he's They believe you're close.

[00:00:24]>> I've seen I've seen I've seen I've read the comments, man.

[00:00:27]>> They they like you actually. They believe you're close, but they just don't because look, I have no control of the comments. I don't have time to live sift through them. Yeah. Sometimes, well, I'll upload a video and then in the first hour, I'll just look at a few comments to see maybe have I misqued something or something like that, but other than that, I'll let people say what they want to say. But with your thing, it's it doesn't seem like it's a strong objection.

[00:00:53]>> But but the thing is, >> it's not something that you can do, right? See, this is something that God has to talk to me himself.

[00:01:02]>> But God does though.

[00:01:04]>> But >> through media, through me, he speaks to you.

[00:01:07]>> But but I haven't recognized it.

[00:01:09]>> Like like like until I'm convinced then the thing is I have to be convinced and I'm not and I'm not convinced. That's it.

[00:01:18]>> Like >> have you I know we spoke about this last time but are you convinced that there are electrons?

[00:01:25]>> Yeah, there are. Yeah. Yeah. Have >> you seen them?

[00:01:28]>> Not not not in my eyes.

[00:01:30]>> Then has anybody ever showed them to you?

[00:01:33]>> Well, you can go on Google Earth imagery and you can see them.

[00:01:36]>> No, no, no. Electrons. Electrons. Not Google Earth. I don't see electrons on Google Earth.

[00:01:40]>> No. I mean, actually, if you if you like a taser and you see the blue light at electrons.

[00:01:46]>> No. Can't see electrons.

[00:01:48]>> Well, because they're too small.

[00:01:50]>> Exactly.

[00:01:51]>> So, what's your point? My point is when it comes to electrons, you definitely cannot see it. But you are so quick to say yes, they definitely exist >> because science proves it.

[00:02:03]>> But science >> electrons are making that camera work.

[00:02:05]Electrons are making this microphone work. Electrons Electrons right now are in your are in our brains because your brain needs power to to um work.

[00:02:14]>> You believe 100% maths exists.

[00:02:18]Maths mathematics >> with numbers. Yeah.

[00:02:20]>> Yeah. But science does not claim to prove maths but yet you believe it exists.

[00:02:28]>> So that criteria that oh because science says it therefore I accept it. Well science doesn't prove maths but yet you accept maths with certainty.

[00:02:37]>> Well well >> in other words >> what is maths?

[00:02:40]>> In other words maths you accept because of its effects. Electrons you accept because of its effects. I would say bro just sit down just have a nice cold drink sit not alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. And sit in the park and just look around you bro. Honestly, if you just sit in there and you relax your mind, you are going to also realize that just like I accept that electrons the the effects and that proves electrons, the effects that proves mathematics, the effects also prove God. Look, why can't you just accept that everything around you, all the um humans or the life or the um uh information and um things basically all the matter around you. Why can't you accept it just came by chance? Because chance is ignorance of the variables.

[00:03:38]It's a man-made concept.

[00:03:40]>> So is God. God is a man-made concept.

[00:03:42]>> It's not a man-made concept. For let me give you an example. You said chance is do you believe chance is a man-made concept personally?

[00:03:51]>> Yeah.

[00:03:52]>> Well, there you go then.

[00:03:54]>> How are you saying chance created everything when chance technically doesn't exist?

[00:03:59]>> No. No. Ch. Chance is >> ignorance of the variables. When we don't know the variables like rolling of a dice, we say that's chance. But if we knew all the forces that action, we'd be able to predict what we roll.

[00:04:13]>> Right? So, so what's your point?

[00:04:16]>> So, my my point is you can't say chance created everything because chance is in our head. It's how we conceptualize.

[00:04:23]>> I said >> that it happened by probability not by chance which is ignorance of the variables.

[00:04:30]>> So, or maybe it was just maybe it was just meant to be. Maybe it was meant to be.

[00:04:35]>> That that tree was there that that >> meant to be is destiny. Atheists don't use meant to be because meant to be is an abstract again an abstract principle which can't be studied under a microscope. So you are referring to things that are abstract that you can't prove. You're just using airy fairy terminology.

[00:04:56]So okay let me ask you something else.

[00:04:58]Right. All right. Let's say hypothe hypothetically I conceded and I accepted there was a god. Hypothetically right.

[00:05:04]Would you then would the next step be to retake the jihad?

[00:05:08]>> No. So you accepting that there's a god.

[00:05:11]The next step would be you accepting that there is one god not multiple gods.

[00:05:16]Then revelation then prophethood. These are all evidentially proven through philosophy through logic through deductive reasoning. These are all evidences.

[00:05:28]Science science itself should not be the only criteria. It's foolish to only claim that science is the criteria.

[00:05:38]Science doesn't tell us about morality.

[00:05:40]Science doesn't tell us about mathematics. It doesn't tell us about metaphysics. Doesn't claim to.

[00:05:48]>> Oh man. I don't know what to do at this point, man.

[00:05:52]>> No. No. You say you have to convince yourself, not him to convince you. It's you to convince yourself.

[00:05:59]>> I have to be con. Look, >> that's why I didn't say anything when you said that it's me that needs to be convinced. No, I couldn't say anything to that because you're right. Like I can give you and I have given you the evidences if you deep it, bro. The evidence is that I'm looking into, bro.

[00:06:16]I've got a friend who's doing a PhD and he's giving me literature from his PhD and I'm trying to kind of dumb it down such that I can use that as speaker's corner. So these are highlevel arguments and points to refute like silly notions contradictions but also >> and infinite regrowth.

[00:06:36]>> You don't believe in evolution do you?

[00:06:38]>> You don't believe >> that's besides the point. Remember what I told you in our first or second discussion. I said evolution and big bang are mechanisms.

[00:06:46]God is a creator of mechanisms. The two don't contradict with each other. So even if you were to accept evolution in whatever capacity, you would still need to contend with if there's a god or not.

[00:07:00]It doesn't replace a god. For example, just because I know how a microphone works doesn't mean the creator of the microphone no longer exists.

[00:07:12]>> Okay. But but but just because you know how the universe works, it doesn't mean that it was created by creator.

[00:07:18]Just be no but how what what so you're saying that just because you know how a universe works.

[00:07:25]>> Okay. All right. Now let me face it.

[00:07:26]Right. Look just because you don't know where the universe came from, it doesn't mean it was a god who created it. I >> I I accept that.

[00:07:34]>> Right.

[00:07:34]>> Yeah. That would be god of the gaps and we reject that.

[00:07:37]>> Right.

[00:07:38]>> Just like atheists fall into chance of the gaps which you did before. Anytime I ask you, you refer to chance. Chance, evolution, chance. Big bang chance. Oh, how did we come about chance? That's chance of the gaps. If somebody says we don't know how the universe came into being, therefore there's a God. That's wrong, >> right?

[00:07:55]>> That's wrong. But that's not what we say. We say, did the universe come from?

[00:08:02]Was it caused or uncaused?

[00:08:06]That's the question.

[00:08:07]>> I don't I don't I don't know cuz cuz I wasn't around back in those days. So, >> yeah. But then we look Yeah. No, it's not about whether you have a time machine or not. You have to use deductive argumentation. Right.

[00:08:22]>> Right.

[00:08:23]>> So, deductively I can for example say Socrates. Yeah. Uh all men are mortals. Socrates was a man.

[00:08:33]Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

[00:08:35]>> Right.

[00:08:35]>> Yeah. Were you there at the time of Socrates?

[00:08:38]>> Do you know about all mortals? No. But you can follow along with this deductive kind of argumentation. You can come to a conclusion. The universe began to exist.

[00:08:48]Well, that's what we mentioned last time.

[00:08:49]>> Okay. But here here's the thing, right?

[00:08:50]Look, you look, you said before everything has a cause, didn't you?

[00:08:55]>> Okay. Is there anything?

[00:08:57]>> Yeah. Yeah. Everything has a cause, >> right? So, so >> according to live's principle of sufficient reason.

[00:09:04]>> Okay. So, you right. So, so if everything has a cause, right? But you also said that the infinite regress wouldn't work, didn't you? Right. So that's that's a contradiction. But that that's a contradiction because if the universe had a cause, that cause of the universe also had a cause. That's an infinite regress. So that's why I'm saying the infinite regress could be the only explanation for the the existence of the universe.

[00:09:29]>> Right? So every caused thing has a caused. God is uncaused. Therefore, he doesn't have a cause.

[00:09:37]>> Yeah, that's the nuance to the argument.

[00:09:40]With regards to an infinite regress, let me give you an example. Yeah. We're going to use our advanced example. I want you to bear with me here. Yeah.

[00:09:50]It's called Hilbert's Hotel. Yeah. Now, tell me to slow down if you think I'm going too fast or if I lose you. Yeah.

[00:09:58]It is a very simple analogy though.

[00:10:00]There's a hotel with infinite rooms.

[00:10:04]>> I've heard this before.

[00:10:05]>> Yes. And the infinite rooms all are occupied.

[00:10:12]Somebody comes to the hotel saying I want a room.

[00:10:16]So the hotel clerk says everybody move down one room.

[00:10:24]Right. Will a space emerge?

[00:10:27]>> No.

[00:10:29]So one moves to two.

[00:10:31]>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:33]Because there's infinite rooms. So yeah, >> there's infinite rooms. So a space will emerge. Yeah, >> that's incoherent >> because infinite you can't do that to infinite. How can you add or subtract from the infinite? Because that is to exhaust the inexhaustible, right? You can't do that. By definition, infinite cannot be added or subtracted.

[00:10:58]So the mere fact that you can make a space there, Hilbert's hotel is an example of this notion of infinite in the real world does not exist. So essentially it leads to mass inconsistencies and incoherence.

[00:11:11]>> So essentially I can't add or take from infinity >> by definition and in real life. It doesn't make sense.

[00:11:17]>> All right. Absolutely.

[00:11:19]>> I'll consider it. I It's just >> that's in the literature. That's in peer reviewed literature.

[00:11:24]>> Yeah. Hilbert's hotel. I'll I'll consider it. I'll consider it. No promises, but I'll consider it. But um at the end of the day, the change the change has to happen for me because obviously you can lead the horse to the water, but you can't make a drink, right?

[00:11:39]>> So you're leading to you're leading me to the water, but whether but like I have to >> What was your name again?

[00:11:44]>> Trevor.

[00:11:45]>> Trevor. You can bring the Trevor to the water, >> but you can't force Trevor to drink.

[00:11:50]>> Right. But but but if God speak to if God speak to Trevor, then Trevor would drink. But that's God's job. That's he he has to do it.

[00:11:59]>> But that's why I spoke to you at the beginning that you accept many things like electrons. Yeah. Like what was the other example? Like mathematics and and atoms and even pain. You accept these things that you cannot see them.

[00:12:16]because you can see the effects they're enough for you to believe they exist.

[00:12:22]>> But but scientific evidence pro points to their existence.

[00:12:26]Like scientific evidence proves atoms.

[00:12:28]Scientific evidence proves physical pain. Scientific scientific evidence proves that electrons exist.

[00:12:35]>> So there's a there's a term that I'm looking for. Yeah. Uh let me see if I can uh just recall it. But the thing is look look look this this notion and idea that there is an all powerful creator watching who created everything watching us 24/7 and has a plan for all of us and is divine and and and you got people here right now arguing saying he wants this no he wants that I I I just don't buy that. Okay. So I mean when there's people arguing here it's just >> okay. Then I can go to a scientific conference and I can say look at all these scientists over here arguing with each other about whether the big bang happened or not. Look at them. This is pathetic. Yeah. What does that say about science? No. That's just how the human brain works. That's how human experience is. When we hearing different ideas, our understanding is at different levels.

[00:13:30]>> People can't agree on facts though.

[00:13:31]>> Say that again.

[00:13:32]>> People can't agree on facts.

[00:13:34]Yeah, people can't agree on.

[00:13:35]>> You see, because I cuz I saw the video of you arguing one of the Christians and then he said to you, "Don't bring me scholars. I'm not here about scholars."

[00:13:42]Remember that. So, basically, you and him couldn't even agree on facts. And you both believe in God.

[00:13:46]>> No, no, no, no, no. Don't put me in his category, bro. You know what I was saying was reasonable. Yeah. In a debate, when a person is giving evidence for their claim, you bring a scholar, right, to to evidence that it's called referencing. When you're doing a PhD or anything, you you put references, right?

[00:14:03]You've got a bibliography.

[00:14:04]>> But his but his but his the argument was >> I don't care about scholars.

[00:14:08]>> That's stupid because because scholars can corrupt scriptures. What he wants to do is go to the core of the Bible. Not not not to hear it from scholars.

[00:14:16]>> Yeah. And the core of the Bible. How can I take the core of the Bible for somebody that doesn't know about Greek?

[00:14:23]That doesn't know about manuscripts that can you speak Greek?

[00:14:26]>> I know the relevant Greek passages. Yes.

[00:14:29]Like like I'll give you an example. If I'm talking about worship >> Yeah. pertaining to the New Testament or the Old Testament. Yeah, I'd know that the word is pro proc.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah, that it's is to do with a reverence, is to do with respect. But when it comes to the translation, this guy over here will be looking at the word worship. You're telling me that it means worship.

[00:14:51]>> But can you speak and understand Greek fluently?

[00:14:55]>> No, I don't understand it fluently.

[00:14:57]Okay, >> that's why I said uh in it in it. Do you know I reckon right I remember when I asked you if you were a school teacher I think that because of the way your your you use critical thinking very very very well I do you know right why don't you join parliament why I think you should do it >> you going to vote for me >> it depends on what your policies like if I like >> what's the point then >> but it depends what the policies are if if I like them then >> surely if I'm clever I come up with good policies right >> oh I tell you what you do right right I would recommend Man, joining >> join the conservatives.

[00:15:34]>> Yeah, >> join the conservatives. Yeah, but but the thing is safe. I'm the new Rishi Sunnak.

[00:15:40]Join join the conservatives.

[00:15:41]>> Yeah, >> I about to get rid of the beard though.

[00:15:44]But >> you think I won't get voted because of the beard?

[00:15:47]>> I think I think that that might get the bid might get in the way of it. The beard might get in the way. But like would you would you would you consider becoming a politician?

[00:15:56]>> Uh at the moment, no, not really. It's not really something that's come up. But if the need arises, >> okay, >> like I know people in Birmingham, they felt that the need has arisen because of the whole the politicians not representing their views morally in terms of what's going on in Palestine.

[00:16:14]So independents have stood up. So I don't know what the future holds, but I don't know. It's not really top of my priority at this moment in time.

[00:16:21]>> But you know, you were talking about maths, sorry, science.

[00:16:24]>> Yeah.

[00:16:24]>> I was looking up this term. It's called methodological naturalism.

[00:16:29]>> Yeah. Methodological naturalism means science in terms of its methodology, it rejects metaphysical things.

[00:16:39]>> Yeah. So because it doesn't accept it in its framework, people assume that science rejects God. It doesn't. Science doesn't hold it doesn't accept or reject God. Yeah. But when it comes to the methodology of science, I'll give you an example cuz I think I'm losing. Yeah.

[00:16:58]Let's just say there's a room. I >> think it was right.

[00:17:00]>> I think I'm losing you.

[00:17:01]>> All right. Let's just say there's a room. Yeah.

[00:17:03]>> Yeah.

[00:17:04]>> Outside the room, it says, "Don't enter."

[00:17:09]So, remove any red clothing, >> right?

[00:17:12]>> Remove any >> red clothing. So, anyone who enters this room has no >> has no red clothing.

[00:17:20]>> Red clothing. So when they go in there, does it make sense when somebody then says in there that look there's no red, therefore red does not exist?

[00:17:30]>> Is that rational?

[00:17:32]>> Uh not not really because maybe it's there but they don't see it.

[00:17:37]>> No, because the rule was you do not bring red into the room.

[00:17:42]>> Okay. Similarly according to method methodological naturalism in science you do not use metaphysical things it's not allowed it's not according to the scientific framework and now because it's not according to the scientific framework similarly you cannot now say oh because there's no metaphysics therefore god does not exist I'm tired man it's it's a lot but I'm tapping out something but Um, >> it's always a pleasure though.

[00:18:13]>> Yeah. But um, like I said, right, I'm at the water, but God can make a drink or not, but that that's that's that's his will. So, up to >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Always a pleasure, Trevor. Os a pleasure.