This clinical dismantling of biblical chronology exposes the inherent fragility of literalist claims when faced with basic historical scrutiny. It serves as a sharp reminder that dogmatic certainty is often built upon a foundation of irreconcilable contradictions.
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This Self-Proclaimed "Bible Expert" Gets Completely EXPOSED | Matt Dillahunty & Dalton theBibleGuyAdded:
Christopher, Christopher's calling from Ohio, pronounce your him, wants to explain why the Bible's reliable evidence for God. How are you doing, Christopher? Thank you for calling.
I'm good. How are you guys?
Not too bad. Well, I got sick last night, so I didn't sleep much, so Dalton's going to do all the heavy lifting.
>> Sorry to hear that. I'm excellent.
So, I would just I would like to start my argument off um The first reason why I believe that the Bible is reliable evidence for God is because of three reasons. Historical reliability, which is the duration, the amount of time it took to write the Bible, then eyewitness testimony, and the fulfilled prophecies within the Bible.
The first >> Well, I mean I'll say which one of those you want to start with.
Yeah, which one of those you want to start >> start with the um historical reliability if that's okay?
You guys want to do that?
Okay.
>> Um Call >> The Bible is actually Oh.
Yeah, go ahead.
All right. Sorry, there's like a little bit of a bit of a delay here, so I'm I'm trying to keep up with y'all, but the Bible is actually not just a single book, but it's actually a collection of about 60 books written over 1,500 years by multiple people. And And Christopher >> it's actually well attested compared to like other ancient cultures.
>> Like They're Sorry, is that my name?
Yeah, I am.
>> Yeah.
Um I guarantee you that I guarantee that Dalton and I know that it's 66 books and can name every one of them in order. Are you Are you reading this? Did you like prepare this? And is this yours or you reading somebody else's argument?
No, this is mine.
Okay, cool. I just wanted to let you know that No, no, no. I'm I'm I'm I'm eager to hear what it is.
Um but also if we cannot turn this into like 5 minutes of rudimentary basics and actually get to what you think is historically reliable because I don't know how to verify the historical reliability of supernatural events.
And I don't think that the Bible mentioning real places and real people means that the other things that it mentions are are reliable. So, we'll get to that, but sorry to interrupt, continue.
Okay. Well, if you want to dismiss number one, then we can go to the eyewitness testimony part. Jesus, there is there's countless eyewitness testimonies of the resurrection. He was publicly executed >> Well, we we don't have we don't have to skip number one. We can talk about Christopher, we don't have to we don't have to skip we don't have to skip number one. We can talk about the areas of the Bible where historicity is way the hell off.
For example, Christopher, how familiar Yeah, yeah, Christopher, how familiar are you with the nativity stories of the Gospels?
Um unfortunately, I'm not well versed.
You know, the the the birth of Jesus, those stories, Matthew 1 and 2.
>> I am. I am.
I am. Sorry. Well Do you Would you confirm or deny that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great?
I don't know who the hell that is, so I cannot attest to that, but what I can say is that I'm sure he was born at least 2,000 years ago, and he >> wait, wait. King Herod King King Herod the Great, he's the one who, according to the Gospel of Matthew, butchered all of the infants in Bethlehem who were 2 years old and under.
Okay.
So, was Jesus born during the reign of King Herod the Great?
I I don't know. Where are we going with this? Like if I say yes, are you going to like catch me in a trap? If I say no, what what's going to happen? Like I >> Well, I mean, if the truth if the truth is with you, you don't have to worry about traps, right? You can just like answer honestly. So, like the Gospel of Matthew says that Jesus was born when King Herod the Great was the king of Judea. Do you like accept that as true or do you >> it sounds like you're just trying to like get into semantics. Like Not semantics.
Could you define semantics for me?
Define semantics? Yeah. What's semantics mean?
>> complication of basic phrases. That's how I would define >> not It's not that's not what semantics means. Semantics is the study of what words mean and how Semantics Semantics is the study of what words mean and how they're used. He's Dalton's asking you because you're talking about you think the Bible's historically reliable, yet you didn't and you're you're evidently conversant with the with the birth narratives, but you didn't know that they were called nativity stories, you don't know who Herod the Great was, and you seem to be seeking out, "Hey, are we trying to trap you with a trick question?" When all that's happening is somebody's asking you, "Do you believe this?"
and you won't answer. So, I forgive me, please.
Um we get a lot of prank calls, we get a lot of people who aren't serious. I'm having a really difficult time taking you seriously when you're calling in to tell us about the historical reliability and you don't seem to know anything at all about the subject, and you want to say, "Oh, is this just semantics?" when semantics aren't really really relevant to what you were being asked.
Okay. I apologize. I I understand your frustration. I was unaware of your like previous encounters with people on the show. I'm not like I'm not playing around. I'm actually trying to have a conversation here. So, yeah, I apologize.
Okay. Okay. Well, that's fine.
So, the Gospel of Matthew states that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great. Do you confirm this fact about the Gospel of Matthew?
Sure. Yeah. Yes.
All right. Now, historically speaking, King Herod the Great ruled from 40 BCE to 4 BCE when he died. His kingdom was divided amongst his three sons, Herod Archelaus, Herod Philip, and and and Herod Agrippa. Now, um The Gospel of Luke says in the Luke chapter 2 verse 1 that Jesus was born when there was a census under Quirinius of Syria. Do you also agree with that?
Yes.
Well, well, here here's the main problem with that, bud. The census of Quirinius took place 10 years after Herod the Great was already dead.
It would be like someone saying that the Bible guy was born in 1996 under Clinton, while another person said the Bible guy was born in 2006 under Bush.
Like it's it's a historically an impossibility.
Where Where are these verses that you are getting this from?
>> He He literally quoted He gave you the verse.
He literally gave you the verse.
It's really easy. Matthew 2:1-2.
Yeah. Matthew 2:1-2 and Luke 2:1-2. It's literally the the different Gospels, but same same chapter, same verses.
So, you're saying that because this small detail is inconsistent that the Bible was just impossible, can't be true at all? Oh, no, no, no. No, it's not small. So, first of all you're you're you called in and your first point that you wanted to defend was the historical reliability.
And at the very first opportunity Dalton provided an example of a biblical contradiction that demonstrates at least on that point it is not historically reliable.
Something that you didn't know in addition to seemingly anything else. So, what is it that convinces you it's historically reliable if the very first example shows it's not?
Okay. We did not finish analyzing the first example, so no, I wouldn't say that my first point has been dismantled, but yes, the eyewitness testimony and the fulfilled prophecies within the Bible uh as well as >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. You kind of skipped past what we were talking about here. We're still talking about is the Bible historically reliable. We gave you an example of where that's impossible. Do you have any examples of historical reliability?
Yeah, I do.
Okay. Give us one.
>> Okay. Just because So, okay. The the historical reliability argument, I say it's historically reliable reliable because it spanned over thousands of years, yet people were able to get That's a minor detail. The larger No, no, no. No, no, no. Stop.
Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop, Christopher.
In mid-sentence, you realized that you had no examples of historical reliability, and so you shifted and cut it off to say that's a minor detail.
I'm asking you for an example that confirms the historical reliability, and you just quit in mid-sentence to say it's just a minor detail.
So, is historical reliability something that you can demonstrate or not?
Yes, I I can demonstrate the historical reliability, but you you keep cutting me off, Matt. Oh, no, no. That's a lie. I'm sorry, that's a lie.
We are both sitting here engaging in a good faith conversation, and we're asking you questions, and I have on multiple occasions now asked you to defend this.
And you cut yourself off by stopping when you realized you didn't have an example and saying that's just a minor discrepancy.
So, don't start lying now that I'm cutting you off. I want you to give your example that you think confirms the historical reliability or or alternatively you can say I can't demonstrate historical reliability. I'd like to go on to the next example.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to concede to that. We can we can talk about the historical reliability. I'll point you to that right now. The >> I'm sorry, Christopher. Um so first of all Arden is you can.
You gave a three-fold thing. Historical reliability.
You now there needs to demonstrate an example of historical reliability or say I can't do that, but I'd like to move on to the next one. That's the only option now. You don't get to move on to the next one unless you concede the first one.
Is that clear?
Okay. Yeah, yes, it's clear. It's clear.
Let me first explain to you why that inconsistency appears in the first place. That inconsistency appears because God gave his perfect message to imperfect people. If you want to look at the actual Bible manuscripts, you can.
There are from the New Testament alone there's over 5,800 Greek manuscripts and I think Christopher, Christopher, the number of manuscripts so you can look at the Christopher, the number of times you write something down doesn't make it more true. If the Gospels have a historical contradiction within them, if I write that historical contradiction down 10,000 times, it doesn't suddenly undo the past and make that make that contradiction go away. And I'm never going to be impressed. I'm never I'm never ever ever I'm never I'm never ever ever going to be impressed with someone who tries to Google an answer that they've already failed to give. And so your your whole thing here is to give an example of something that confirms historical accuracy. Your your job was not to say >> I'm [ __ ] Googling answers when earlier you only Okay, I'm going to mute you because you're never going to interrupt me on my own [ __ ] show, guaranteed.
The question was you need to demonstrate give me an example of something that confirms historical reliability. You were not asked to justify the discrepancy that you did not know anything about and were not aware of a moment ago. This is you are being embarrassingly transparent as a fraud right now.
Because you had no [ __ ] clue what he was talking about, didn't know the verses, but now you think you can justify it. And that's because God delivered his message is to fallible human beings who are going to get some things right and so yes, you didn't even have access in your mind to a suitable apologetic in response to what Dalton said.
But here's the thing. This is where we're at now.
I'm being as generous as I will ever [ __ ] be, guaranteed. With liars who I have no patience for, frauds who I have no patience for. You don't know anything about the subject, you don't know anything about evidence, and you don't know anything about the Bible. And so you're clearly Googling or using chat GPT or whatever. You should stop trusting the large language models, by the way.
But I'm going to say this again because this is the point we're at.
You need to either say here's my example for why I think the Bible is historically accurate or you need to say I don't have an example for historical accuracy. I'd like to move on to eyewitness.
That's the only option. If anything other than those comes out of your mouth when I unmute you we will just move on to one of the many other callers that will be calling in shortly. I'd love to give you the opportunity. If you want to move on to the eyewitness thing, all you have to do is say I don't currently have an example of historical reliability. Let's move on to eyewitness stuff. Or you can give an example that we can address on historical reliability.
That's it. Those are the options. Let's try this again, Christopher.
Welcome back to the show.
I don't currently have an example of historical reliability. I would like to move on to eyewitness. But the only reason that you know it Okay. Okay.
Let me chill. Okay. Okay.
That's fine. Yeah, we can move on we can move on to the eyewitness part. But you're you're forcing me into a corner here, Matt, and I don't think I like your [ __ ] attitude.
Okay, I'm going to mute you, Christopher.
Um this is so much fun.
You know, if there were other theists on hold right now, which there's not. So if there's if there's theists out there who are embarrassed that this little kid is lying and pretending and whining and being a fraud through this, please call in and do a better job of defending the religion that he's currently [ __ ] on.
Okay? I don't care if you like my attitude. We're bending over backwards to give you a chance to do something that I think you're a complete fraud about. Prove me wrong.
You have a golden opportunity here.
Here you go. Just for you, Christopher.
I don't do [ __ ] like this often cuz I'm just a dude just here doing this.
But for you I'm the OG.
I'm the OG [ __ ] call in dude, 20 [ __ ] years doing this, owning [ __ ] left and right. I'm schooling you. I'm schooling you.
Dalton's here.
You know how awesome it would be if you could prove that I'm wrong?
If you could make a case for something because I'm already going to tell you right now your historical reliability probably I mean, it's not the first time we've heard this. Probably not going to go anywhere.
Your eyewitness thing there there are no confirmed eyewitness accounts in the entire New Testament.
Or or anywhere in the Bible really, but in the entire New Testament. Now, you say there's countless eyewitnesses. I'm giving I'm literally giving you the opportunity to get past the historical reliability and make your case for eyewitnesses, something that Dalton and I have been destroying for ages and is one of the most in the the the only thing that's more embarrassing perhaps than the average Christian thinking these are eyewitness accounts when absolutely no biblical scholar would affirm this.
The only thing that's more embarrassing than that is your third example, which is fulfilled prophecy, which is Dalton's expertise.
So so I'm going to take I'm going to take you off mute again.
I don't need you to tell me how you don't like my attitude. I need you to do what you're obligated to do to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is the power of God until salvation, to do what you're ordered to do under 1 Peter 3:15 to be prepared at all times to give a reason for the faith that's within you.
See two of the three of us know the [ __ ] Bible.
Two of the three of us know the arguments. Two of the three of us know what the word nativity means.
Two of the three of us aren't frauds.
Please try again. I'm going to commit hit a complete reset button.
I'm going to pretend like nothing else in this call has happened and that you weren't a problem.
Here we go.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Christopher back to the show.
Christopher's probably hearing him.
Christopher's a theist who wants to explain why he finds the Bible reliable.
He's already given up on historical reliability for today. He's welcome to call back some other day with examples of historical reliability. Let's find out if he wants to address the claim that the Bible has countless eyewitness uh accounts in it or if he'd like to move on to fulfilled prophecy.
Welcome to Dalton and the OG.
Christopher, how are you?
I'm great, Matt. You seem to be in a good mood as well.
Yes, you have put me in a much better mood. I was sick last night. I'm very tired, but I'd like for you and Dalton to have a good conversation. So I'm going to stop now, which should make you really happy.
Matt, I I don't know. You seem to be the least well-versed of the three of us on this topic, but it's okay. I'll let you go.
I can confirm that Matt knows what he's talking about. Do you have any examples of eyewitness accounts in the Bible, Christopher? I'm not aware of any.
In the Bible?
Okay. Mhm. Well Okay, before we get into like the actual people within the Bible that the witnesses themselves, I would first like to talk about the witnesses as a whole.
There were hundreds of reported eyewitnesses testimonies that most of them can't particularly be named because back then like most of these people they had no status to even be talked about.
But these people >> Can I name any of them?
Yeah. Um unfortunately it's it's been a long time since I've read Genesis specifically. I've been delving into Revelation, so I don't exactly remember the the name of the woman who went into Jesus' tomb. Are you [ __ ] kidding me?
Dalton, please please describe Genesis and Jesus' tomb before we drop Christopher as the obvious [ __ ] fraud that he is.
Yeah, so first and foremost, we don't know who the author of Genesis is, Christopher. So it's and also the book of Genesis, even if you want to take Mosaic authorship, Moses wasn't an eyewitness to any of the events of Genesis as they predate his birth. Um his alleged birth. And then in regards to Mary Magdalene, there's a whole another problem with Mary Magdalene, mostly that most scholars would say that perhaps Mary Magdalene just didn't exist. When we look at the writings of the Apostle Paul who is the oldest I wasn't done yet. I wasn't done yet.
I wasn't done yet. I wasn't done yet.
When we talk about Mary Magdalene, when we look at the oldest Christian writings being the writings of the Apostle Paul, when Paul gives us a list of apparent people that Jesus apparently appeared to, Mary Magdalene's nowhere on that list. The first person that he says that Jesus appeared to was Peter. So, you would think that Paul would know have some knowledge of Mary Magdalene.
It's most likely that she's a fabrication of like the Gospels which were written decades after the alleged events took place. So, who are these eyewitnesses?
The Jewish common people of the time.
And I'm I Name them. I can't let this go. Look, you guys are just you guys are constantly disrespecting me. I'm not a fraud. I know the Bible. I can name almost any Bible verse. Psalms chapter 1, I can I can name the whole chapter off the top of my head. Christopher, you didn't Christopher, you didn't even know who Herod Christopher, Christopher, you didn't even know who Herod the Great was.
Why is that We literally We literally We literally Herod I didn't say you prayed to Herod the Great, but even when I was a Christian, every single Chris every single Christmas, we heard the story of Jesus' birth. Everyone who's a Christian supposed to at least know who Herod the Great was, and you don't even know you don't know about that. And now you're obfuscating. You're refusing to actually name any witnesses. Instead Oh, yes, that's why I know the Bible's Herod the Great.
Oh my god, you're hilarious, Christopher. What can Can I ask Can I ask you a question, Christopher? Is that all right?
Depends.
But I know none of neither of you know the Bible better than me. But what's the What's the question? It's okay.
Okay.
Um why are you doing this?
Are you like recording it for a funny clip? Are you Are your boys hanging out with you? Are you Can you just Are you too young to get laid? Do your parents not love you? What What's going on?
>> Is that how you treat people who try to come on here to have good faith conversations? No, no, no. You're not trying to have a good faith conversation. You literally know absolutely nothing about any any of this. When we start talking about eyewitnesses, you immediate Your first thing was it's been a long time since I read Genesis. And then you immediately said you know the Bible better than either of us and can quote almost anything. So, what's Genesis 1:4?
Genesis 1:4, I'm assuming it's about creation.
Oh, but you said you knew all the Bible verses. What's Genesis 1:4?
I can't say it word for word. I'm not a [ __ ] dictionary.
>> tell me at all what it's about?
Creation.
Something something about creation. How about Joshua 8? What's that about?
Is it Jesus talking to one of his disciples?
Yeah, so Joshua's in the Old Testament and Jesus isn't mentioned in the Old Testament, which is why you also sounded silly when you went to Genesis when you were talking about eyewitnesses related to Jesus. You don't even know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
You didn't know there were 66 books. You knew there were 60 something.
You're an obvious embarrassing fraud. I just want to know why you're doing this.
Because I'm I'm trying to convert both of you. I can see there's there's something within you guys. There's like a a deep darkness. I'm trying to help you, but if you want to treat me like [ __ ] then I can't help you. I can't help you. I can't help you.
>> Yeah, yeah. We both We both know the Bible and have studied it for most if not all of our lives. I mean, I started at the age of five when I walked down the aisle at a church to accept Jesus into my heart. When did you accept Jesus into your heart?
>> must not have actually accepted him.
Okay.
That's cool. How do you know that?
Doesn't the Bible say that God's the only one who knows who's really saved and not?
Yeah, but if you pray to God, he reveals the answers to you and God has revealed to me you did not actually trust.
God has revealed to me that you're a liar.
God has revealed to me that you can kiss my ass.
Okay.
Anything else you'd like to say before I go tell your mommy that you're on the internet longer than you're supposed to be?
I'm still trying to have a good faith conversation here, but you You're almost laughing at it. You're almost laughing at it. And I have your I have your phone number and I I'm All right, I'm going to call your parents.
It's It's It's gone too much now, Christopher.
Thanks for trying. We'll see you later.
Call your wife and ask where she's been cuz she's been in my [ __ ] bed the whole time, Paul.
My wife's been in your bed the whole phone call?
Hey, honey, have you been in his bed the whole phone call? No, I've been wrangling the stupid [ __ ] dog who's been barking her ass off.
Gosh, she's literally down the hall producing this. That's how stupid you are, Christopher. This is why I'm saying genuinely, it's okay.
I just want to know why you're doing this. Is this just fun for you? Were you bored?
You know, do you not have friends? I'm trying to have a good faith conversation here. I'm trying to help you guys >> you're not, Christopher.
You're not, Christopher. It's sexual You're absolutely not, okay?
Um so I'm going to go ahead and ban your phone number because you couldn't be honest with me. I mean, if you at some point would have had anything at all like even at the end when I asked why you were doing this, I mean, here, I'll give you one last chance. I'm going to unmute you. Please tell me why you're doing this.
Um otherwise, I'm going to ban your phone number and you'll never be able to call again.
So, you're just going to ban me cuz I've been trying to have a good conversation.
Yep. Welcome to ban.
No, no, no. You don't get to say another word ever, Christopher.
Um let's go ahead and click the ban call on that one. Arden, you got it?
On it.
I'm sorry, but you don't get to call me at all until you get your parents' permission.
Matt, I don't think Christopher knows what the phrase good faith means.
Well, I would argue this probably not good faith. Um but at least colloquially, I can I can kind of go with that. Well, I'm so bummed because we only had that one theist caller.
There's an atheist caller on hold, but I was really I was really looking forward to getting you at least one decent caller to start things off with.
When When you're When you're doing stuff like this how often do do you get people who just aren't remotely serious and it's just let me waste your time?
Oh, man most most Christian callers end up becoming Christopher when they realize that oh [ __ ] I don't know the Bible well enough to have this conversation. So, they end up just throwing feces by the end of it. It's very rarely that we get like good faith actual callers who are interested in genuine conversation.
It's And I'm seeing a lot more of that.
I mean, you know, in all the years that I've done this, I mean, we used to get once upon a time back when we were on public access on on Atheist Experience, we would get a lot of calls, but they were all in Austin.
And then when when we branched out to the internet, you know, in the early days of doing this, we we would get callers from around the world. And now it seems like Christians have given up on by and large on on proselytizing apologetics in in any real sense across lines like this. What I mean, even a lot of the guys that I've debated and including some that I thought were decent people like Than who's now hanging out with a bunch of philo bros trying to convert Muslims because you know, if they get Muslims and ex-Muslims, they've they've got somebody who's already failed to understand the nature of evidence. And so it's really easy to to get them to oh, I left Islam because I didn't like this. Well, that's cool. You should, you know, become a Christian. And then we can work together against those godless heathens except that they don't show up with any evidence or argument. And in this case we're just getting little kids who I mean, I would have a better conversation with ChatGPT and I despise the large language model stuff. It's wrong as often as it's right.
Um it's probably going to destroy the world if MAGA doesn't do it first.
And And it's like I really I I wish Christopher would have just said, "Hey, man, I'm just having a bit of fun.
Uh I you know, I won't do it again or I'll only call in if I have something like a serious question."
But it's like you're so right, Christopher. I am definitely the weakest of the three of us on Bible knowledge.
I'm definitely the weakest of the two of us that are still on.
Um but I'll just go ahead and grab you.
Christopher, you If you have any friends or boyfriend or girlfriend um you can go ahead and tell them that you are way better about the Bible than I am. And that I said so.
Cuz while I don't like to lie, since you do, I think it's fair for me to to lie right back at you.
And like a subscriber, Jimmy will have to go on a polyamorous dating show to win some prize money.
Wait, I want to do that. So, also hit like and subscribe, and then go to patreon.com/calltheline. I was trying to make you laugh and ruin the take. That's why that silly face earlier.
If I was on a polyamorous dating show, I would just choose everybody.
Except Frederick.
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