Reunion, being your partner's co-worker, and creativity in and outside of mania || Episode 26

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]Hey, Da.

[00:00:00]>> Desa, are you all right?

[00:00:01]>> I am all right. How are you?

[00:00:02]>> Not too bad. Thank you very much.

[00:00:04]>> I'm happy to hear that.

[00:00:05]>> That's so weird.

[00:00:06]>> It is.

[00:00:06]>> It feels like like my hand just wanted to move forward. Had the impulse to just like shake your hand, but I couldn't.

[00:00:13]>> Maybe I should have done it. Let's try again.

[00:00:14]>> Good Asa.

[00:00:15]>> Good Asa, are you all right?

[00:00:16]>> I am all right. How are you?

[00:00:18]>> Not too bad. Thank you very much.

[00:00:19]>> You forgot your lines there a little bit. Yeah.

[00:00:22]>> Oh, baby. I miss you.

[00:00:24]>> I miss you, too.

[00:00:25]>> How long have we not seen each other now?

[00:00:28]I think it's going to be almost three weeks. Two weeks. Two weeks and a few days cuz he left on the 16th. I remember that. And it's the fourth today.

[00:00:38]>> Two weeks.

[00:00:39]>> Two weeks and a couple of days. Yeah.

[00:00:41]>> And that means two weeks of podcast. So we were trying Mhm. So we were trying to figure out a solution for that and uh this is that >> that solution guys. I hope you enjoy it.

[00:00:52]I hope it works out guys. Um that's the best we could have we could have come up with.

[00:00:58]>> Yeah. Because if you think about it like right now I am supposed to be gone for a month and a bit right and we didn't want to go without shooting for this month and a bit but after that I need to go for 3 months again.

[00:01:12]>> Yeah.

[00:01:13]>> So like well I travel a lot for work and like three months without the podcast. four in total, I guess.

[00:01:24]>> Yeah. And so, and so we have to come up with a solution. So, so this is that.

[00:01:29]Um, and and we see how it goes. Maybe this doesn't work out and maybe you will never see this episode, guys.

[00:01:35]>> Yeah. Maybe, maybe the sound's going to be so bad that we're just going to not post it cuz of, you know, for the sake of your ears.

[00:01:41]>> But what if it is much better than our microphones and so we decide to always do it over these devices. And so like I'm just in the living room and you're in our studio.

[00:01:55]>> You also know what I just realized because so basically guys, so what we're doing is we are screen recording ourselves and we're also filming the sound on our phones. I just realized that I can also be heard on your phone.

[00:02:04]>> Yeah, true.

[00:02:05]>> That's inconvenient. But that's fine.

[00:02:07]>> I mean, yeah. So, so it might sound really really bad or poor Elsie has to cut >> Oh no.

[00:02:14]>> the the the audio tracks. Hopefully my recording is just going to record everything like the screen recording is going to record the sound. So well doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You guys don't need to know all the all the technicalities um of it.

[00:02:27]>> Um >> so yeah. So what what you what have you been up to? What's up?

[00:02:31]>> Well I have been so that was actually quite wild. So I always stay with my sister once I am in Germany but she moved >> so that was quite inconvenient. Um, so like I arrived and two days later they would move. So I uh just helped them move, which I mean I guess inconvenient only as much as it is inconvenient to be in a flat that is currently being prepared for a move.

[00:02:58]>> Um, >> but in general it was really good for them to have another helping hand. So I helped her move and uh yeah, we're in the new flat now. I I mean we were and so I stayed a few days there but then I I had a work commitment in Germany which was pushed back. So I was fully expecting to you know go to Berlin for my work commitment but then they moved it. So I I I wouldn't be needed in Berlin for another 3 weeks and I was like right I don't need to be here. I cannot go back to Scotland.

[00:03:31]>> Yeah.

[00:03:32]>> Um so what should I do? And then I decided to just visit my mom in Turkey and that is where I am right now. I'm in Istanbul right now.

[00:03:40]>> That's so cool.

[00:03:42]>> So far, >> well, I literally arrived yesterday so I haven't seen anything. I've only seen I've only seen the the the road from the subway to my mom's flat.

[00:03:56]>> Okay.

[00:03:57]>> So, like from the airport, we immediately went to the subway. So, I've not seen >> Yeah.

[00:04:01]>> even the airport. um the outside and so uh so immediately in the subway which surprisingly looks like the London subway. I don't know what I expected but um I didn't expect that because German >> busy.

[00:04:14]>> Well well yeah but um it wasn't yesterday but they told me that it's incredibly busy. Also could you remind me how many people live in London?

[00:04:22]>> 10 million.

[00:04:23]>> Mhm. Which is incredibly a lot, right?

[00:04:26]>> Yeah.

[00:04:27]>> And we always say how busy London is because it's 10 million people.

[00:04:30]>> Yeah. Do you want to guess how many live in Eastble?

[00:04:32]>> Is it more?

[00:04:34]>> Yeah.

[00:04:34]>> 12.

[00:04:35]>> 15.

[00:04:36]>> Crazy. Oh, that's crazy.

[00:04:39]>> How do you feel that on the street?

[00:04:41]>> Again, I have not seen anything. Like, I was literally >> on the taxi just to my mom's and then at my mom's. And then in the evening, we went out shopping um to to buy a few groceries because well, >> you're vegan.

[00:04:52]>> Because I needed I'm vegan. But she did prepare for that. Do you know what I didn't expect?

[00:04:57]>> What? I expected it to be difficult or a bit harder in in Turkey to be vegan, which is like something I totally expected. In some countries, it's just easier than in others. Um, you know, in in countries where >> vegans are more common, >> right? Um, and and so I I I fully expected it to be harder >> Yeah.

[00:05:18]>> in Turkey to be vegan. And then my mom said, "Oh, yeah. I bought you vegan cheese." And I was like, >> "Oh, >> do you know how hard it is to get that in general? It's so hard to get a good vegan cheese. Like yesterday, I I kid you not, yesterday was the first time I had really like genuinely good vegan cheese because there was >> so where we live, there was a vegan fest basically. And so uh so I went to the vegan fest uh with a couple of other people and uh had some really delicious food.

[00:05:49]Really.

[00:05:49]>> And how was that? How why is it so cool to have a vegan fest? See, the thing is because like as a vegan, you don't usually get options, you know, and like you go to the shop and like you need to check if something's vegan and you need to, okay, oh, I I really feel like that chocolate, let me see if it has milk in it. Let me see if it has this or that.

[00:06:06]Um, and you cannot really have this freedom to just like go to a shop, take something and just have it. Um, so just being at a place where I could have anything I wanted without worrying that it's vegan if it's vegan. Just such a such a such a cool thing. Like I missed that. I I do how much you how how much I miss that.

[00:06:26]>> Just this having this freedom. It's uh really cool. So that was really good.

[00:06:30]And the things were absolutely delicious. Like I handed some really good cake, really delicious bow bun. And also cakes with frosting, vegan frosting. Like >> frosting is something that I do really miss as a vegan or like cakes in general cuz you go to a place and like they have a lot of vegetarian options and of course like they've got um like veget well cakes are vegetarian but like not a lot of people think that oh maybe we could have something for the vegans, something that's not a brownie or something that's not a flapjack, >> you know, like it's so rare to have like good vegan cakes or pastries. So lovely.

[00:07:04]Lovely. I would recommend go to Vegan Fest, guys. Go to Vegan Fest. Support Vegan Fest. Yeah.

[00:07:10]>> Yeah. I mean, even if you're not vegan, you can eat it.

[00:07:12]>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:15]>> Yeah.

[00:07:15]>> Um Yeah. I I would have loved to be there because I've always wanted to go to the vegan fest in Edinburgh. And then >> it's >> Oh, is it?

[00:07:24]>> I think so. On the 16th.

[00:07:25]>> Will you go again?

[00:07:26]>> I'm working.

[00:07:28]>> Ah, I mean, at least you got it.

[00:07:30]>> Yeah. I got a taste of it. Literally.

[00:07:33]Yeah, come on. I always wanted to go. I remember when I first heard of it. Um, yeah. But isn't that funny? Did we talk about it in the podcast already that I never ever was in Scotland during spring?

[00:07:48]>> That's true. I think there >> it just always happens that I'm not there in spring and the coolest stuff happens in spring.

[00:07:56]>> That's true. And also Scotland's beautiful in spring. like all the trees bloom and all the pink trees, you know, it's also springy and it's nice and warm and you don't actually have to wear a jacket for the first time in months and Oh, I don't know, man. Like spring really makes me feel alive. But like, doesn't it doesn't it do it to everyone?

[00:08:13]Do you know what I mean?

[00:08:14]>> Yeah.

[00:08:14]>> Like >> I mean it it it really motivates you apparently because you've been working more than you have when I was there. Plus, you fully picked up writing again.

[00:08:25]>> Yes. Yes. And and Dorian, it just really makes me wonder, am I the reason? Am I holding you back?

[00:08:32]>> Are you holding are you in the way of my progress as a as a creator?

[00:08:36]>> Literally, >> not at all. I feel like like it's like when you're not here, I really feel the need to throw myself into doing stuff >> because first like I feel lonely. I feel bored. I miss you. And so doing is something that that just keeps me busy, keeps me entertained. And to be fair, I'm not going to lie, I also did really mess creating because like the the past couple of months have been a bit chaotic for me and uh and quite hard. So it's actually really nice to be able to focus on on a goal and actually have some things.

[00:09:14]I started writing um not I started I started and I finished writing a short film. um did it in a couple of days actually. I mean to be fair the idea the general idea I had last year around the same time I think in June I came up with the idea but then I left it and it's been chilling on the side. It's been chilling in my draft for the for the couple of months and almost a year and so I picked it up now and I finished it and I'm really happy with it and I can't wait to actually um to actually do it and I'm hoping to do it over the summer.

[00:09:46]>> Now you talked about Prism once. So, Prism, just to recap, is a short film series that you planned, that you birthed.

[00:09:54]>> Um, and the initial idea was to start our production company with like very short short films to just like dip our toes into film making like on ourselves like playing with camera, playing with um visual storytelling um and and writing scripts. And Prism was was was such a good really good concept that you came up with that for that because it is a series of multiple short films that allows us different angles.

[00:10:22]>> Yeah.

[00:10:22]>> Now and then you said as well in in the episode you talked about prison you also said like and then it became so much more >> um and now the stories are so like elaborate and and so much bigger that they cannot serve >> for what we wanted them >> for. Well, they cannot be what we wanted them to be, which is just like exploration and experimentation. Um, because like you finished writing Prism Red, which by the way is an amazing script. Um, you finished writing >> one of the best things I ever wrote.

[00:10:52]>> I I believe so too. I believe so too because the way you manage so many characters at the same time is just I love it. I love it.

[00:11:02]>> It's just such a I feel like it's just a story I really feel passionate about and that's very personal to me as well. But like I mean isn't every story personal to a writer?

[00:11:10]>> I just wanted to say I just wanted to say no I I I disagree. It's not every like just because you're a writer doesn't mean you're able to write such personal stories. And that is something that I told you yesterday or two days ago. That is something that I really look up to you for is how you make every story. And this is where I'm wanting to go with this. Even this short story that you wrote now to do over the summer is so incredibly personal. Um, not everyone might be able to get it, but maybe some will. Um, certainly the ones who are close to you know what it means.

[00:11:43]>> I I that is just something that I admire in you so much that no matter what you touch, what you write, what you create, it is always so revealing and personal and and like I like writing. I I like to write. I like I I write my own scripts but it's not it isn't like I don't know I don't know like I cannot make myself bear as you are able to >> and that is something that I just I just have to get to still >> and and so no just because you're a writer doesn't mean you're able to write so personal. So this is where I wanted to go with this. Um >> stop it baby stop it.

[00:12:25]>> I will never stop. Um, so where I wanted to go with this is that prison cannot work as what we wanted it to work as, which is >> cannot work as a summer project.

[00:12:35]>> Exactly. So you needed to write a summer project. So you actually you wrote a five minute short film.

[00:12:41]>> Yeah. It's probably going to be a bit longer than that, but it's four pages long. So like >> Yeah. So probably like five, six minutes.

[00:12:47]>> Yeah. um and um to to just, you know, do it over the summer, dip our toes in, experiment, explore.

[00:12:57]>> Um and then we work our ways more towards like longer short films and then eventually to um >> features.

[00:13:05]>> Yeah. Even though I do need to say I am a big fan of short forms. So, >> would you would you say would you say that even if we were ready for um features, you would uh just keep doing shorts?

[00:13:16]>> No, no, no, no. I think I would just keep doing both. I think they just offer you completely different things and you can use completely different devices and they're meant for different stories.

[00:13:24]Like not every story is a feature film story. Same thing that like not every story is going to be a short film story.

[00:13:29]Like Red was supposed to be a short film and it is still a short film, but it's on the longer end. It's almost >> 30 35 minutes.

[00:13:37]>> Um >> half feature. Exactly. So, so it's one of the it's on the longer end and I don't think it could have been shorter.

[00:13:43]Same thing like I don't think it can be longer. I don't think it could be a feature film for example. And um yeah, basically that and I don't think the film that I wrote right now could be a feature. It doesn't need to be a feature because everything that I want to tell it with tell with it it's already included. It's already in there. So it just it's exactly what it needs to be.

[00:14:04]Dude, on Instagram, I sent you because on the on the on the note of that, I sent you a short film that is literally 20 seconds, 30 seconds.

[00:14:12]>> Okay.

[00:14:12]>> And it's a whole story. It's one shot and they're just zooming out >> and you have all the storytelling. You don't need more.

[00:14:19]>> I I need you to to check it out because normally what we do, we send each other reels and um we wait until we see each other again and then watch them together.

[00:14:28]>> Yeah.

[00:14:28]>> Um so we never touch the reels that we sent each other. But I need you to check that out. Yeah. Okay.

[00:14:34]>> It's a 30 40 second short. It's beautiful.

[00:14:36]>> Okay.

[00:14:38]>> I mean beautiful as in beautiful storytelling. Horrible short film. Like no. Great short film. Horrible story.

[00:14:44]>> Okay.

[00:14:45]>> Yeah. I got >> criticizing it. Okay.

[00:14:47]>> No, no, no, no, no. It's it's amazing like that you can tell so much story in like >> that. That's brilliant.

[00:14:54]>> Yeah.

[00:14:54]>> Um it's just I got scared.

[00:14:58]>> Okay. I'm really curious. When did you send her?

[00:15:02]It's It's like I sent you so little.

[00:15:04]>> Okay, fair.

[00:15:05]>> It's you just probably like the last three things I sent you, it's probably there.

[00:15:09]>> I'll have a look. That's exciting.

[00:15:11]>> Yeah.

[00:15:12]>> But that's kind of what of course I haven't seen it, but like that's exactly what I mean that you don't always need more time. Just because something is longer doesn't mean that it's better.

[00:15:19]>> Yeah. Haha.

[00:15:21]>> Oh god.

[00:15:26]>> I said it.

[00:15:27]>> You said it.

[00:15:29]>> I said it. You heard it here first, guys.

[00:15:32]>> Just because it's longer, just because it's longer doesn't mean it's better.

[00:15:36]>> Nemoya.

[00:15:38]>> Yeah. Poet.

[00:15:39]>> Yeah.

[00:15:41]>> Um Yeah. So, so that's what we've been doing. And um and uh because I cannot be part of this short film, which is heartbreaking. Um I I tried to I tried to get you to give me as much pre-production work as you can.

[00:15:57]>> I mean, you can be a part of the short film, just not on set. Yeah, I cannot be on set and I cannot be postp production.

[00:16:03]>> That's true.

[00:16:04]>> So, so I'll I'll like I ask you to like, do you want me to write the shot list?

[00:16:07]Do you want me to write the prop list? I can I can do you want me to scout for locations? Like I'm trying to get you to give me so much um pre-production. But like all in all, why why are we talking about this? Um our production company is gaining in momentum. We are um >> we are uh you know doing our first project this summer and um very soon the production company Instagram account will open and you will see the name. I designed the logo already which was so much fun. Dorian and I brainstormed um a lot of like it kind of felt like when we brainstormed don't scream I'll cry.

[00:16:46]>> Yeah.

[00:16:48]So, we were like, "Okay, what do we want the logo to be and and stuff and um it's it's it's just so nice to have like the other person's input."

[00:16:59]>> Yeah. And and you say, "No, no, no, I don't like that." And yeah, I I like that. And so, I have like multiple drafts and stuff.

[00:17:04]>> I also do really like that we don't take it personally. I really like can separate when we work on something that I can't just not like something that you did and it doesn't need to be personal.

[00:17:14]doesn't mean that everything you've done is you know? Yeah.

[00:17:18]>> I think we have I mean, first thing it's like we've been in this industry like in a creative industry and we've been in the creative industry for some time now and I feel like just not taking things personally is something that you just need to learn. But especially when it comes to communicating with your partner, I think that's another and it can be a bit harder because you can teach yourself how to not take things personally from other people. But when it's someone who's close to you, it suddenly becomes a bit harder. Um and I think we work really well um in that in that sense.

[00:17:46]>> I agree. Um and we actually um I have seen a DM like that a few times where people ask how is it being a couple and also working together.

[00:17:56]>> Isn't it a problem? And whenever I tell people, oh yeah, I I want to do a production company with my partner. And then they say, oh, I could never work with my partner. Which fair, valid, 100% understood. I hear you. But then when I tell them, "Oh, but we we have worked together before." So whenever like I tell people, they're like, "Oh, no, don't do that. Like you would hate working with your partner." I'm I'm informing them, "Oh, actually, we've been working quite a lot together."

[00:18:21]That's actually how we met.

[00:18:22]>> Yeah, that's how we met. And so we don't know anything else. Um, and maybe because that is how we met, uh, we just have, um, a more okay approach to that.

[00:18:33]>> Mhm. I I do have to say I we did need to learn that as well like that um communication as co-workers is not the same as communication as partners and I just I just know that um I mean this morning we we kind of had a like a on a coworker basis kind of like a little disagreement >> and um but like at the same time we were also talking about something else as partners so we were like oh no you cannot do that by the way look at the sweet pigeon I just saw. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:02]Yeah. That was nice. That was nice.

[00:19:03]>> I think this I think the secret is just never forgetting that you are also a couple.

[00:19:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. That you and also that you're in this together and that you both want the best for the project. It's the same the same way that you argue within a relationship that like you cannot forget that you're the same team and at the end of the day you just want to be happy together and that is the goal. Um and you cannot work against each other. So, and sometimes fighting for the best means disagreeing on something, you know, because >> Oh, >> of course. And sometimes I think something is best that you don't agree with and all sorts of stuff.

[00:19:39]>> Um, and then you just need to figure out what's the middle ground and what actually it is and um and how to deal with it and how to go about it and um Yeah. Yeah. And I similar when you when it comes to work.

[00:19:51]>> Yeah. I I totally agree with you what you say. Um, I what I think is super important, especially when you work with your partner, but in general, like let's not be afraid of negative feedback. It is so good.

[00:20:04]>> Negative feedback is so good and so important. Um, I I could tell that when I sent you my first draft of the logo >> and you didn't like it. Um, that you were very hesitant of saying that or very careful how you chose your words.

[00:20:18]And then I was like, babe, I need you to be serious with me. I need you to tell me that this is because I know I work with a perfectionist. I am a perfectionist myself. So only having one version of my design and that being the one we take is actually insulting to me.

[00:20:37]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:38]>> So I need you to say >> as well. Yeah.

[00:20:40]>> Exactly. So like I would hate to find out after three years of running our production company that you say um actually I never like the logo.

[00:20:51]Also, that's just lying.

[00:20:53]>> Yeah, exactly. So, so like >> it's like it's like with the salad, like when we met and you came to visit me in Paris and you made a salad and I was eating the leaves.

[00:21:02]>> Yeah.

[00:21:03]>> Was eating the actual salad >> and I can't remember how if you asked me or something.

[00:21:08]>> Yeah. So, so how it was was um I I made salad, but I didn't make a lot of salad because it was just a side. And so when I um you know I prepped the salad with a lot of small stuff like olives, corn, cucumber, tomatoes, and also the salad leaves, right? Yeah.

[00:21:23]>> And so we didn't have a lot of everything. So when I plated, you said, "Oh, no. Give me more of the leaves."

[00:21:29]And I said, "Why? Take off take some of the good things." And then you said, "I prefer the leaves." And so for a bunch of time in our relationship, I thought you just when you eat salad, you just like lettuce until you actually told me, "No, I just said that because I wanted you to have all the goodies."

[00:21:51]>> That is so >> It is sweet, but that's such a lie.

[00:21:55]>> Yeah, it's sweet. It's a sweet reason to lie, though.

[00:21:58]>> Yeah. And of course, it's forgiven because that was like our first week together.

[00:22:02]>> Yeah. And I also felt a bit bad because I'm quite a picky eater and I actually hate salad leaves in a salad. So I was eating it and I didn't want to seem like I don't enjoy it. So I felt a bit guilty for like not enjoying the salad leaves cuz there was so many leaves and I didn't want to make you feel guilty that you made so much leaves. You made so much leaves but there was so much leaves in the salad and then I don't eat it and I'm like fussy and all like ungrateful.

[00:22:28]>> No baby.

[00:22:31]baby.

[00:22:32]>> Yeah. But well, coming back, >> design is like salad. You heard it here first, guys. Dorian Nemoya said it.

[00:22:37]>> Yeah. Design so many I've got so many good good thoughts today.

[00:22:41]>> Yeah, we you should write them in a book.

[00:22:43]>> Yeah. And I'm like writing right now.

[00:22:46]Like I'm I'm having >> You're um Can I ask you a bit of a personal question as well?

[00:22:52]>> Yeah. Um, as as someone who has bipolar disorder, these moments where you are more productive and you're you're thriving and you have such a creative energy boost, do they worry you?

[00:23:04]>> I think I tried to focus on enjoying them >> more than worrying about what it can mean. But of course, there is always a thought at the back of my head. What if that's hypomomania? What if that's going to what if it's mania? Uh, or what if it's not yet? But what if it goes into that direction? Where's the fine line?

[00:23:22]like where how far can I push myself without tipping over, you know? Like >> for example, I've been going to bed later. I've been waking up earlier.

[00:23:31]>> And like how what's the what's the right thing to do? And when it's when is it too much? Um, like I feel like when you do have when you do have bipolar disorder, when you are bipolar, I feel like whenever your mood is >> anything other than stable, anything other than neutral, you start questioning what it means. And I feel like that's something that you need to learn that I need still to learn to um to live with that that it's just going to be there. this thought will always be there because I will wake up and be in a great mood and suddenly I'll think, "Oh, am I going hypomomanic or I'm going to wake up and I'm going to be feeling depressed or just not having a good day and I'll think, oh my god, am I spiraling down?" And and I think it's just unfortunately it's just a part of this disorder and um and there's a reason why people are advised people with bipolar are advised to track their mood to have diaries which I also do and which I also which I also have. I don't always do it like especially since you left I've been doing it regularly every day.

[00:24:35]>> Good.

[00:24:35]>> Um >> because um and especially since I started to become more productive since I I found myself being uh like my mood being elevated since I noticed myself uh just finding so much joy in everything and just being in a little bit of a high, you know.

[00:24:57]>> Yeah. Um, I've started I've started tracking my mood again and yeah. So, so that's something I think because it's it sucks to whenever you're happy think what if it's a symptom.

[00:25:12]>> Mhm.

[00:25:13]>> Yeah. And that's that's why I mean and I'm I'm I'm really sorry that this is uh your reality and it it just sadly is.

[00:25:18]And yeah, I'm I'm sorry that this is the case and this is also why I asked. Um but I think that's just the cross that you have to bear. how how that sounds. Um >> you know, yeah. Uh I'm just asking cuz well, and that's the thing like am I manic or am I just an artist? Like >> so for for something to qualify as a symptom of mania, it has to be out of character. And what I know for myself when I'm incredibly inspired, if those symptoms of inspiration, if we can call them that, would persist persist over a longer period of time, one could say this looks like a symptom of of mania or hypomomania or something. Like you said, it is not unusual for an artist to be so inspired by their work that they cannot sleep because of it. They want to wake up early, they want to go to bed late because they want to work on it. Like I remember especially when I make my did music um when I was composing or in my writing flow um I I I didn't want to go to bed. It was an act of inconvenience that I needed to go to bed and and this is so like >> ew I hate that I'm going to say this now maniac coded.

[00:26:32]Um, but of course, uh, for something for for you to qualify to have a manic episode, you have to have a lot of manic symptoms over a longer period of time and they need to be out of character.

[00:26:43]Now, this last point is the thing that I want to focus on with my question here because if something is out of character, then you know, for example, you're not a person who spends a lot of money. Never in our relationship were you a person who was um very irresponsible with their money unless you were manic. Um, I'm not saying that you went on a spending spree that you actually never did, but you moved countries >> and that's heavy on your bank account, you know.

[00:27:11]>> Um, so, so if you were suddenly to to spend a lot of money, >> I would say like, hey babe, this is out of character. Maybe this is a red flag for a manic hypomomanic episode.

[00:27:24]>> However, you not being able to sleep because you want to create, is that out of character? Or are you an artist? See, that's a good point. That's a good point. But it's mostly mania that's considered out of character. Hypomomania is a milder form of mania. And I feel like hypomomania can just be yourself with a more elevated mood on a high with more energy with more motivation with great self-esteem. That can still be you yourself. Um >> I see in this more energized um way. Do you know what I So, you're saying that even the outof character criteria that I'm talking about doesn't even um isn't even relevant for hypomomania?

[00:28:06]>> I think so. Yeah.

[00:28:07]>> Wow.

[00:28:09]>> I think so.

[00:28:10]>> Well, okay. Um that's why people with hypomomania like can't usually normally function, you know, like they go to work and maybe the performance at work is even better, you know, they do better in general. Um, that's why I sometimes say that like when I was feeling a bit lower a couple of months ago, I remember saying like, I wouldn't mind like a cheeky little hypomomania.

[00:28:30]>> I would have cheeky little week of hypomomania.

[00:28:32]>> Okay. Okay. Wait. Uh, just just to be clear that this is uh like um not a desired state for everyone who listens.

[00:28:40]It is not a desired state. Those are the thoughts of someone who is depressed and would like to be elevated and picked up again. Um, and we cannot blame someone who is depressed to think that, but this is not where we want to go. Um but I I totally understand. Um yeah, it is it is just such a shame that that's a symptom, you know.

[00:29:02]>> Yeah.

[00:29:02]>> As long as >> at the end of the day, and that's also the tricky part. At the end of the day, >> you will never know.

[00:29:07]>> Like at the end of the day, I don't know right now if I'm just in my creative flow or if I am slightly hypomomanic.

[00:29:14]Like >> I don't know that >> and I don't know if there's anyone who can tell me that.

[00:29:20]Are you are you still going to therapy?

[00:29:24]>> Yes. Yes, I am going to therapy. I am going to therapy. Yes. Every second week.

[00:29:29]>> And you're taking your meds?

[00:29:30]>> I am taking my meds.

[00:29:32]>> Okay. Good. Good. Just Just want to get that out there. I just don't I don't want anyone to think that you're not taking care of yourself right now.

[00:29:38]>> I am very much taking care of myself.

[00:29:39]Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay.

[00:29:41]>> Um I'm mostly like brainstorming. I'm thinking out loud a little bit. Mhm.

[00:29:45]>> Um, so >> aren't you reading a book right now on that exact topic?

[00:29:49]>> Yes. See, I mean, yes and no. I'm reading a book. I will show it because I can. It's called Touch with Fire and I read about a page. So, I'm definitely not far in, but I'm definitely going to that's something that I want to read and it's definitely going to be my next lecture that uh lecture in my next um reading position. Um and it is about bipolar disorder and creativity and how those these two correlate and um that's something that I'm really interested in and it's relevant as well for me especially at the minute when I am in this creative flow.

[00:30:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. Especially right now. I think that's also why I asked the question because it is so hard to like differentiate maybe because there is something like this artistic rush.

[00:30:28]>> Yeah.

[00:30:29]>> That makes you euphoric as well.

[00:30:31]>> Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

[00:30:33]>> And you're like oh my god I feel great.

[00:30:34]I'm a creator. I'm like, you know.

[00:30:36]>> Yeah.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah. So, so that's so that's interesting. So, I'm I'm really happy.

[00:30:41]Yeah. And so, I'm I'm really happy there's a lecture on it, like a >> literature on it.

[00:30:46]>> Um and that you can read it. Uh Yeah.

[00:30:49]>> Cool.

[00:30:49]>> That's interesting. That's interesting.

[00:30:51]Thank you for that question.

[00:30:52]>> Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm just I'm just curious, you know.

[00:30:55]>> Yeah.

[00:30:55]>> Um yeah, just coming back to the book that you mentioned that you are reading.

[00:30:59]Um, after you read it, um, I certainly want to read it as well because we we sometimes get questions from like people, friends of trans people or or people like, you know, the supporting system.

[00:31:14]>> Mhm.

[00:31:15]>> And as a trans person myself, whenever they ask me like, oh, how can I best support my trans friend and stuff? Um, it is literally just do your research.

[00:31:25]>> Yeah. like >> it is sometimes you don't understand what is going on with yourself and then needing to educate people on certain aspects of it is just very hard.

[00:31:38]So the best thing that you can do is just do your own research. If I could I would just hand in a handbook like there you go that's everything about about me or about this one part of me. There you go. if you can read that or >> because for example um some people are very shy people who who never had contact with with trans people um and here I mean people under the trans umbrella including also non-binary people or people um who don't see themselves as as any gender or as all genders and and all these beautiful colors of the rainbow. Um, people who are under the trans umbrella might not know certain things themselves. For example, their friends might not know that it is no problem to ask for pronouns. Like I've seen a lot of cis straight people thinking it is better if I assume pronouns rather than asking for it because if I ask them they know that I can not read their gender.

[00:32:38]>> Yeah.

[00:32:38]>> Yeah. and and and so this is more uncomfortable for them for me. So so I'll just assume whereas more often than not it is the opposite like if you cannot read their gender that might be on purpose because they want to be seen as androgynous. They actually identify with they them pronouns and they don't want you to see um their gender. On the other side of the spectrum as well non-binary people don't owe you androgyny. So some non-binary people are super super male presenting, female presenting, whatever. and they actually do not want you to refer to them as he with heheim pronouns just because they're very male presenting or the other extreme of course is also the case. So you assuming might be more of a problem than the solution to the problem and so more often than not >> asking is the right way to go.

[00:33:27]>> Yeah. In general, I feel like the solution to that, not not to not knowing someone's gender, but uh the solution to it not being this uncomfortable is we should just ask everyone the pronouns like >> who like sispassing people as well.

[00:33:42]>> Like just because you see someone who looks a bit uh um who who looks gender queer, inverted commas, of course, like there's no certain thing that you look gender queer, but that like you cannot tell someone's gender or you know, all all that kind of stuff. um that that's only when you ask.

[00:33:57]>> Yeah.

[00:33:58]>> Like >> that's not the case.

[00:34:01]>> I feel like if we would just ask sis people for pronouns, it would just become so much more normalized to just ask for pronouns.

[00:34:07]>> That is the very reason that um sis people uh started to put their pronouns into the bio. And that is super super helpful for trans people who don't want to be outed because it become it becomes so normal um to put your own pronouns in the bio even though you're sis. Uh, that makes it so much easier for for trans people who don't want to be clocked to put their pronouns in the bio without like while they're being covered by all the sis people who do that as well. Same with um cis straight people saying partner and using genderneutral terms when referring to their partners. So gay people who don't want to be clocked can do that as well without being clocked.

[00:34:42]Um, so so this is the kind of support that we need.

[00:34:46]>> Yeah. And um so yeah, where I want to go with this is sometimes asking is the right way to go and you don't know that and some maybe your only trans friend also doesn't know that. And so um just do your research.

[00:34:59]>> Yeah. And where I'm going with this is >> your book that you're reading right now, u I want to read it too, uh, once you're done because after you've done your research, I want to do my research or while you do your research, I want to do my research. And I don't want you to be the one person that informs me about bipolar disorder.

[00:35:19]>> I need different sources. I want different sources. And truly if you care for a person and if you're interested in them then there is an in like integral interest in in what they have or who they are anyway. So so it's really fun reading about you. There's so much literature about you.

[00:35:39]>> Oh yeah. What can I say? I'm just so interesting.

[00:35:43]>> What can I say? I'm amazing.

[00:35:45]>> You are. You are. You are. You are.

[00:35:47]Yeah. Okay. Do you still have anything to say about that? I think that's that.

[00:35:53]>> Yeah, >> I think that's that. No, I'm happy.

[00:35:55]Happy happy. I still think it was a really good question. So, thank you.

[00:35:58]>> Yeah, of course. Of course. Just um just for everyone uh we do not want to glorify manic episodes or hypom manic episodes. Like this is not >> Yeah, of course.

[00:36:08]>> What we're doing here, it is just like everyone.

[00:36:12]It is so normal for a bipolar person >> while in a depressive episode to wish for it to go away. And how does it go away? and actually swing to the opposite well during a hypomomanic or manic episode.

[00:36:24]>> Because of course I would life I would say that hypomomania doesn't feel good.

[00:36:28]>> Do you know what I mean?

[00:36:29]>> That doesn't mean that it's the state you should aim to achieve. Um it can feel good but it also has really bad consequences especially at what cost.

[00:36:38]>> Yeah. Exactly. Especially if it leads to mania. Especially if it leads to psychosis. Um that's just things that we don't play with.

[00:36:46]>> And we don't >> don't play with fire.

[00:36:47]>> Exactly. touch with fire.

[00:36:51]>> Oh, right.

[00:36:54]>> Um >> um so so yeah, 100%. Uh yeah, that's something that that's also something I I wanted to to clarify is when I when I'm hoping for a hypomomanic episode, inverted commas, I'm not actually hoping for a hypomomanic episode. Um it's just I'm hoping to feel better. And that's just the epitome of feeling better is hypomomania. It's mania because that's what it's all about. Like that's what the state is about. It's about feeling great at least to a certain point >> and very subjectively because you're actually not >> doing great.

[00:37:24]>> Yeah, very subjectively as well. So yeah, that's that. So hopefully I'm just in my artistic flow. I'm just in my artistic flow. Um I'm seeing my doctor as well very soon. So I guess I can give them a little bit of insight on on like what's going on with me and um and we'll take it from there. But for now, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling great. I think everything's going well. Um, I'm riding the creative wave without putting myself in danger.

[00:37:51]>> And there's nothing wrong with that.

[00:37:52]>> There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah.

[00:37:54]>> Yeah. And you you should be allowed to enjoy that without second guessing yourself all the time.

[00:37:59]>> I agree. I agree 100%. Even though the thought will always be at the back of my mind >> and that's the cross you have to bear.

[00:38:05]Yeah.

[00:38:05]>> But um but it is what it is. Doesn't mean that I cannot enjoy it.

[00:38:10]>> Yeah.

[00:38:11]>> Yeah.

[00:38:11]>> Yeah. Okay baby. Thank you for this talk. So today we decided to go for a bit of a shorter episode because multiple reasons. First, um we don't know if this episode even freaking works. Um there might be so many technical difficulties that this episode never airs. Uh second of all, the sound might be so bad that it's actually really hard for you to bear. So if you if this episode actually sees the light of day, we need you to give us feedback now more than ever. If it you can bear the sound, you can bear the view. Of course, the camera is not as good as it is usually. It's just like the inside of a like laptop camera, whereas when we're filming, we use actual filming cameras.

[00:38:54]>> Um, >> so so this is more of an experiment. If this is going well, of course, um, we we will look into pursuing that form of doing the podcast um, for the time being that I'm away, even though this is not ideal and currently difficult to manage.

[00:39:12]Um, yeah. I mean, hopefully we'll see each other soon just for our own sakes.

[00:39:19]>> Yeah, >> because I miss you.

[00:39:21]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:23]>> But um, also that would be cool for the podcast.

[00:39:26]>> Just for the podcast, you know, >> just for the podcast. Yeah.

[00:39:29]>> Selfless.

[00:39:30]>> Selfless. All righty. We did also get a lot of uh DMs because we have been in a hiatus and um during these two weeks of not posting, of course, there's just some DMs coming in and which we are super super grateful for.

[00:39:44]>> Yes, which we are super grateful for. We already had a read through all of them and they're definitely worth discussing.

[00:39:50]There's some gems in there as always, guys. We love your DMs and and so we might pick them up in the next episode, but no promises.

[00:39:58]>> No promises. Yeah, that's what we've learned. Yeah.

[00:40:02]>> Okay. Uh I also hope that you guys enjoyed um the view on our uh Don't Scream Cry studio behind Dorian because you've never actually seen it like >> when we're not in it.

[00:40:15]>> That's that's our view when we >> under the bed.

[00:40:18]>> Yeah.

[00:40:18]>> That's a love bed.

[00:40:20]>> That's a lovely bed. And we always refer to the bed above us, but you never actually saw it. So there's that.

[00:40:24]>> There you go. There you go. The mystery solved.

[00:40:27]>> Mhm.

[00:40:29]And behind me is a little gingerbread man.

[00:40:32]>> Yeah. The mystery solved. Talking about mysteries, the Lady Grace mysteries is out. We didn't talk about that.

[00:40:37]>> True.

[00:40:38]>> It's been out for what, two weeks now.

[00:40:40]All the episodes on >> BBC i Player.

[00:40:43]>> Yeah, >> they're all out. Go watch it. It's amazing. I watched it. I was absolutely on the edge of my seat. Enjoyed it. It was so entertaining, funny. Um, loved watching you on screen. Loved watching everyone on screen as well. Um, some really really good show. I recommend.

[00:41:02]>> Yeah. And maybe there's a little surprise in the first four minutes.

[00:41:05]>> Maybe, maybe not. I don't know what it would be.

[00:41:08]>> I know exactly what it would be.

[00:41:11]>> But yeah, no, I'm really really proud of you. That's >> Thank you.

[00:41:14]>> something.

[00:41:14]>> Thank you. Yeah. Okay. It's out like BBCi Player or every Monday on CBBC Live.

[00:41:20]>> Nice.

[00:41:21]>> Yo, >> go watch it.

[00:41:24]>> Go watch it. Um, >> that's us.

[00:41:26]>> I love you.

[00:41:27]>> I love you. I miss you.

[00:41:28]>> I miss you.

[00:41:29]>> I kiss you.

[00:41:30]>> I kiss you back.

[00:41:33]And I hope to see you soon.

[00:41:37]Any other time. Maybe not next week.

[00:41:39]Maybe. Yes, any other time. Same time, same place. Maybe not same place because I will probably not be in this symbol.

[00:41:45]>> So, everything's uncertain.

[00:41:49]>> Um, >> but don't scream, I'll cry.

[00:41:52]>> Don't scream, I'll cry, guys.

[00:41:54]Bye bye.