Dan Skelton on working with brother Harry & future winners in Ireland | Luck on Sunday | Racing TV

Added: 2026-05-10

[00:00:00]And how much of a um influence does Harry have on things? Do you sit down at the start of the season, have a master plan? Is he fully involved?

[00:00:08]>> Oh, massively. Yeah. Um Harry's Harry's role has evolved and become more and more important over time. Um we're always obviously together. We go to the races together. We in the yard together all the time. Um we do everything together. So >> So is he jockey assistant trainer? He's jockey slash everything.

[00:00:28]>> Assembling board.

[00:00:29]>> Yeah. Everything. I mean, we have an unbelievable team. Tom Messenger is my assistant. Um, I've got two or three other assistants and head head staff who are just brilliant. And there's no there's no there's no hierarchy. We're all in it together. We're all trying to do the same thing. Everyone's opinion is worthwhile and important. Um, and we all work together. And if somebody wants to say, I don't think this is suiting this horse, I want to hear it. You know, I empower that. Um Harry's on the ground.

[00:00:59]Harry's more of a shoutter than I am.

[00:01:01]So, you know, there's a little bit of good cop, bad cop, maybe. Um but we just Yeah, it just works together. And Tom Messenger is is great in that he he lends a slightly less emotive view. Me and Harry are both quite emotive. Tom can just see it a little bit more clearly. and obviously his background wasn't, you know, like mine and Harry's, so he can see it slightly differently and that's really helpful. And then the the head staff are just are just brilliant. We we've had them with us for for a number of years and that's what I'm so sort of proud of is our staff retention has been incredibly high and those people know what they want to see in the horses. They know what I want to see in the horses. They know how to get the best out of the horses. So, it's a massive team, a massive team bit. But yeah, in short, Harry's, you know, absolutely critical.

[00:01:52]>> You must have the odd fallout, though, surely.

[00:01:54]>> Not really.

[00:01:54]>> I couldn't imagine working with either of my brothers.

[00:01:57]>> I'd be the same. I tried.

[00:02:00]>> It's based on trust. It is based on trust. Um I think there was we we went to the races together yesterday at um Haydock.

[00:02:11]We sort of spoke about the horses and on the way up there. How >> first flat winner yesterday.

[00:02:16]>> Yes. Yes. That was bit >> this is this is the whole >> you spoke about new frontiers Willie Mullen trained a breeders cup winner last year could this be a sign of things to come >> it's early it's early days early days baby steps um but I was going to sort of give you an insight into me and Harry like um that you talk we had um three winners at Utox and and three at New A N A N A N A N A N A N A N A N A N A Nat the other day. I didn't speak to him once about how he was going to ride them.

[00:02:44]>> Yeah, you just trust him. Complete trust. No need.

[00:02:46]>> Yeah. And off he goes and does it. And um >> that's not that's not a unique situation. That's not a unique situation. That's a that's that's more regular than not. I'll sometimes ask him what you're going to do on this.

[00:02:57]>> Um just so I know.

[00:03:00]>> So I'm not Harry communicate with the owners as well.

[00:03:03]>> Yeah. Massively. Yeah. Harry would speak to nearly all the owners. Um and yeah, it's it's we're very lucky in in in the environment we've created and it just works. It's not it's something that's taken time and sometimes it hasn't worked and we've had to change this and change that and you know some owners want a particular different approach to things and we have to work with that. At the end of the day, the owners are the most important part of it. But the the one thing that we've got at the moment is trust and and and that you can do it. And of course, winning trophies helps to to to say that you are trusting us and we can do it. But we couldn't have got here without that trust, let alone here to sustain it.

[00:03:46]>> You've got this lifetime relationship though that is unique. M >> what happens in the instance where you don't speak before the race, Harry goes out, gives a horse a ride that you don't necessarily agree with, you ring him on the way home. What happens in that situ situation?

[00:04:00]>> Um, he'd normally say before I do, I shouldn't have done that. But I will I will say to him if I think something particular, if I think we should really make the running with this horse or I think we should really hold this horse up or whatever. But Harry's we might have sort of talked about it on the schooling ground or or working a horse and said, "Oh, next time I ride this, I'm going to ride it a bit closer." Or he might get off a horse and go like the horse yesterday, Tranquil Sea, finished fourth. He got off it and he said, "I'm probably better off lining up second rank down the down the paint because he goes a bit left and instead of trying to fight him and keep him out of there, I probably should just be there." So, I'm expecting him. The owners were there. The owners are expecting him next time. That's probably what he'll do. We have a we have a little group that we write it all down on. So, [laughter] you mention >> so he can be held to account.

[00:04:47]>> So, to learn black, you mentioned trust.

[00:04:49]It is interesting. I've always thought this all the years I rode and I'm sure a lot of jockeyies would feel the same as me. When you're a jockey, you ride for certain trainers. You have a different relationship with each trainer. And there are some trainers who don't want to listen to you. They want to keep you away from the owners and um and you might call them after a race and basically, you know, you can't disagree whatever they say and they whatever they say, okay, you agree with and just move on. Where there are trainers where you can say, look, I know you wanted me to do XY Z, but I did this because of that.

[00:05:19]It might have been the wrong thing. And then you work together to try and get it right next time. And I think that is more beneficial to owners when you've got a trainer and jockey who have trust in each other and there's no it's it's completely transparent.

[00:05:34]>> And the thing is I hold my hands up when I get it wrong. So does Harry and we're not afraid to do that because >> it's human nature. You get things wrong.

[00:05:42]You don't set out there to get it wrong.

[00:05:44]You know, I think sometimes the when you when you can be working for people who don't necessarily think you're going to get it wrong or you know, as a jockey, you must have got off in the past and gone, >> I didn't set out to get it wrong.

[00:05:59]>> Exactly.

[00:06:00]>> Like the assumption is that I've deliberately made a mess >> as you stand there taking the beating after the race.

[00:06:06]>> Yeah.

[00:06:07]>> Um >> we work all our lives to [clears throat] win, folks.

[00:06:09]>> Exactly. There are trainers. Sometimes you made a mistake and and you kind of get away with it as a jockey like they haven't really realized and some trainers you can tell them listen I messed that up and they go really and there's some trainers where you'd say you'd actually lie and say well I didn't do anything wrong because you think you know they won't take it well but on on on the subject of things going wrong how do you handle the social media side of things and getting cuz >> I was with Carl Burke the other day and he showed me his phone.

[00:06:36]>> Yeah.

[00:06:37]>> And some of the messages and emails and >> it's disgusting. It's it's one of my biggest I'm I'm not known for for holding back and I'll always say what I think. Um but I think the social media um treatment of people is disgusting.

[00:06:52]>> Yeah.

[00:06:53]>> And we're professionals at the end of the day. We're doing our best. We've got families. Um you know, people Yeah.

[00:06:59]People don't want to see don't don't want to read these things. And what absolutely disgusts me the most is that all these comments are put on there by people. That's jockey hater 23. No identity, no image.

[00:07:10]>> If you're so big and so brave and you can say all these big and brave things, put your name next to it. You know my name, you know where I live. You can research me. Here we go. Jockey hater 27 is putting all these vile comments up there. And what I think to myself is jockey hater 27. Not necessarily tell me where, tell me your name or let the authorities know where you know your name so that they can get in touch with you and ask you to stop this, but how would how do you think your family would feel about jockey hater 27 saying those things? It's not real. It's These people can't be that nasty. It's just not possible. They They're venting, but they they they think they're venting into an open space. They're not. They're They might be venting, >> but they know they're triggering the person they're targeting because most of them tag you anyway.

[00:07:52]>> Yeah, they do. And and it's absolutely For me now, it's water off a duck's back. I don't care. I've been called all the names under the sun.

[00:07:58]>> But you're you're well established. I think it's the younger person coming along. It's the younger version of our jobs. It's the younger version of your job. it's the conditional or amateur rider that does have an effect. I don't care how tough you are mentally. Of course, it's going to take an effect.

[00:08:12]>> Yeah. And it's not acceptable. And the BHA needs to be 100 times strong. And they're trying and I know the people who are doing it and I fully support them and empower them, but they need to be a hundred times stronger.

[00:08:23]>> Yeah. I actually think it should be collaborative effort between Britain and Ireland and maybe even France because ultimately we are co-reliant on each other. We all interchange too much to go about it individually. I do think as well society is changing and I think we're going through a stage of it and I think we will come out the other side of it as a society where this actually come on now this has gone too far this is ridiculous you can't be saying this >> no there there's that's a real wide topic we could go down that avenue but I feel like we'll just keep it clean uh with reference to the numbers I was interested to know because you have been growing numerically you're targeting Martin Pipes record uh what is the threshold where you have x amount of number of horses in training and you can optimize your performance as a trainer of those horses and what number is too high where you just think I've saturated myself.

[00:09:13]>> I think I think I'm at it right now if I'm honest with you. Um I feel like all the ducks are in a row. I feel like we have the right number of staff for the right number of horses. We have the right number of stables. It's all manageable. Um, we can't, you know, if if you have more horses, you don't just need more stables, more staff. You need, you need another gallop because you can't flood your gallop with horses. You then need another tractor to harrow the gallop. You need another tractor driver.

[00:09:43]You know, it doesn't just grow stable by stable. It actually the growth is is spherical.

[00:09:51]Everything has to grow because of it.

[00:09:52]And you put too much pressure on the system. And I'm I've never been afraid of growth and of and of checking um you know helping the people that have that are working for us to to incorporate that growth. But I think mentally now I'm at the point where I can manage this. I've got the right number of owners that I can manage. I've got the right number of horses that I can manage. Serve all the staff. It's now about upping the quality.

[00:10:19]>> Yeah, that was my next question. So now up.

[00:10:22]>> How do we do that? Well, there's a number of different ways. Um, we've lost horses this year. Owners have moved on.

[00:10:29]New owners have come. Um, so there's that natural there's that natural cycle.

[00:10:34]And I think people that I think people that come in at a later stage of your life see you at that point of your career whereas to where you were. So some of the people who arrived at the start um >> they've been waiting in the long grass.

[00:10:47]Let's see if this lad's going to be the [laughter] as he's going to be. Um, but you know, you've you established relationship with those people who were there at the start. You can you can talk to them and say, "Look, this is where we're heading and they can see it." And I'd like to hope that those people that were with us then have prospered as well and their quality has increased and they've had better results and and things like that, but >> they can take a little bit of ownership in your success as well.

[00:11:08]>> Well, more than a little bit. Um, and I like that. But I think ultimately you need the horses and you need the people on top of the horses. So [snorts] your horses >> all over human human and equin talent is is what it's what it's about. We've got a great facility and we're always updating that and and and trying to make that the best it can be. But sourcing those horses is the hardest part. And I think when Paul Nicholls was was so dominant, um he was shopping at a level in France with Anthony Brmley that was unique and that was what created that environment, not specifically, but that was what gave rise to that. Willie obviously saw that and took it the next level and goes, "Okay, we can go. We we need if if they had five, we need 20."

[00:12:03]and Willie went and and and you see how many runners he has in the triumph and I think we need to do something now but it's different to both of those things and I've got a few things in mind that I think might work but ultimately you got to go out there and find those horses.

[00:12:18]It was only four years ago and my best my highest rated horse was a Spanish bred horse.

[00:12:24]>> So so I'm not afraid. We're not afraid to look outside of of the norms. You know, we will go and look everywhere for a horse and we don't feel every horse is given a chance. Every horse is is special and we try and nurture that. But talent and and and getting that and you know >> that's relentless too though.

[00:12:45]>> Oh yeah.

[00:12:45]>> You're there. You're trying to train your horses. You're planning your your races. You're watching your races.

[00:12:49]You're going to your races. Meanwhile, there's racing in Otoy. There's racing in Drumahan. There's racing in anywhere in the world. So you must have people on the ground other than yourself.

[00:12:58]>> Oh, massively. Yeah. But my main agent, Ryan Mann, who has played a massive part in our success. And you know, there's so many people to mention in it all. And he he is one that that should get a big mention because, you know, we we we're very close. We're best mates. We're with each other all the time. He's knows what I'm looking for. Um I trust him and he works exclusively for us. you know, the owners get that sense of, you know, well, we are getting the best here.

[00:13:27]We're getting the one one person is looking for our best interest, and that really helps. Um, but it it's it's gotten so competitive buy in now. You know what it's like? It it's is it's the hardest part of it, but it's probably still the most crucial.

[00:13:43]>> Of course, it is. You can be the best trainer in the world. If your horse is ability of 110, he's going to be 110. Uh you referenced touched on Martin him maybe looking at the flat and you know that's a little bit down the line but surely now with the numbers and hopefully the quality that as it steps up you'll familiarize yourself with the Irish pattern a little bit more.

[00:14:04]>> Well I think I was never afraid to take horses to Ireland. Um, but I just felt it unnecessary because not because specifically I was trying to do a job in England, but we didn't have three for the bet fair chase. You know, Grey Dawning will probably be our only horse in next year's bet fair chase. And >> you're not splitting them up basically.

[00:14:31]>> No, exactly. But I think around Christmas we may find ourselves needing to go to Leopardstown. Um, >> you did have an entry there this year, didn't you? At the DRF.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah, we did a couple maybe. Um, I always find myself having entries and perhaps not taking them up, but um, >> it's nice to have a look.

[00:14:48]>> Yeah, that that would be the ultimate next goal, taking on Willie in his own backyard.

[00:14:55]>> We're just taking on, you know, I think AngloIrish competition is what the sport's built on. Uh, Nikki Henderson's been doing it for a very long time. Paul Nichols starts and down Royal. He used to conquer that race and then build on through the punch. the Dublin Racing Festival. I mean, that's got bigger and bigger and the amount of people, English fans that go over there to watch it.

[00:15:12]>> Yeah. I I think the one the the one meeting that does concern me is the DRF if I'm honest with you, because it in my opinion, and it's arguable, but in my opinion, to take your horse out there from England to come back to then go to Chelnham, I think it's too close. I think if you're competing as an Irish person at the DRF and then traveling them over afterwards, I'm not saying that that's an advantage, but we've got to do two trips to go out and back.

[00:15:40]Whereas to come to Chelham, you've only got to come, then you've got to race, of course, but the return trip is >> Yeah, you have to return. So, it's not going to impact you. But I think the others I can I I should I probably should >> I'm sure you will when you're dividing out your three gold cup horses. Uh to to counter your DRF argument there. I always think that like you know there are exceptions. It depends on the horse.

[00:16:03]But Elle Tom travels all the time and never gets taken seriously and he wins.

[00:16:08]So there will be horses that can do it if you the right one.

[00:16:10]>> It's remark Tom I could not believe what he did in Chelenham after after. But that just shows you what type of horse he is. is like, "Okay, Protectorat's not, you know, Protectorat's not won a champion chase, but like he's probably got the same attitude. Just gets on and runs, whatever."

[00:16:28]>> Just they're just competitive, >> phenomenal athletes. Um, >> but we know humans like that.

[00:16:33]>> Yeah.

[00:16:33]>> That if you put somebody who's never played football on a football pitch, they will give it their all.

[00:16:38]>> Yeah. But take take Boss Man Jack as example. I think he's an exceptionally good novice. Um, he won at Antry. I think if we had took him to Ireland at any point in the season, it it absolutely blew his mind. He wouldn't have took it. He He's He's got a child's brain. We had to be very cautious with him. So, I think there's there's a good number of horses that you you do have to be mentally cautious of. Physically, you know, they can get over it. You know, we we can and that's obviously what happened to Tom, right? He wasn't his best at Sandown Ascuit, sorry. He fell, but he got over it. So, I think the physical part you can you can get over as long as you got a mature, able horse, but it's the it it's the it's the mental part that makes me stop going to those to those events. But, like I say, we will we will explore them more.

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