CAFOVO: A cautionary Tale. Plus my 16 point checklist if buying direct from a manufacturer

本站添加: 2026-05-13

[00:00:06]Hi there, I'm Tom. Welcome back to Tom's Grinder Lab. This is a cautionary tale about some of the experiences I've had in buying direct from a manufacturer and also a bit of a checklist for you on the risks of buying direct as opposed to a local uh wellestablished and credible uh reseller. So, let me kick off by just explaining what this video is all about.

[00:00:28]Uh then we'll go to the reason I have been buying direct from manufacturers uh most notably in China. Uh the problems and the the sorry the products the problems and Kafabo's responses to those problems. Uh 16point checklist if you're buying direct especially I think if you're buying through AliExpress or Alibaba uh the likes of those platforms or some of which by the way the options are very very good and some of them which aren't. what to look for and what to consider before you decide that you want to save some money. Take a bit of a punt and buy direct from a manufacturer, be that in China or elsewhere. So, that 16point checklist will be invaluable to you. Uh I wanted to take a a moment to note that the direct sellers you can trust based on my experience uh and also provide you with some evidence and and suggest how you might be able to help others from buying uh poor quality products or from manufacturers with poor quality after sales service indeed to mention those who you've had very positive experiences on. So, purpose of this video is to stop this happening to you and your beloved where you decide you want to take a bit of a punt, as I said, and buy a product direct from a manufacturer. My focus is primarily going to be on buying direct from manufacturers in China because they're the ones that I've experienced both the joys and the heartaches with as opposed to local resellers or buying direct from perhaps manufacturers in the US or Europe. So let's uh let's have a look at the reason. So the heartache of course is getting a machine and either it's not the machine you bought which happens in some cases or it comes without any instructions or manuals or whatsoever or it comes with features that were advertised that weren't on the machine or it comes uh and you didn't realize it had to be plumbed in or all these other things that happen or if it actually arrived and it works really well for a while and then dies something or it dies. what happens after that and you don't get the support that you feel that you're entitled to. So that's why I'm making this video based on my own personal experiences. Um it's it's look honestly it's not a vendetta. If I was just buying for myself I probably wouldn't bother making this video but I'm buying so that I can recommend uh vendors to you my valued subscribers.

[00:02:44]And in the process of buying direct, the reason for which I will give you in a second, I've had very a variety of experiences, some very good, some very poor. So the reason I'm buying direct is I want to create a website that has quality control for you to go to the website and so you can find espresso coffee equipment generally that has been made in China uh and you can buy it with confidence. So this is kind of like think of this new website. It won't be out for another 9 to 12 months. So don't get too excited just yet. I'm still building products, still building relationships with manufacturers, still testing and reviewing machines.

[00:03:23]So think of this as like a bridge of trust between China and the West. So you see all these machines, all this coffee equipment on Alibaba or Da Dao or AliExpress or whatever it is, you think, "By golly, that's like half the price of what I could buy something similar for."

[00:03:37]But uh locally, but you don't know if you pay your money whether they'll ship it. If they ship it, whether it's going to be the product they said they were going to send, if they ship it and it's the product they send said it was send, whether it actually works from the get-go, and if it does all those three, if it if you need support or repairs or parts, uh warranty service after, you know, a week or two, a month or two later, are you going to get it? So this website made inchina coffee equipment.com is currently set up just for me sourcing vendors people in China manufacturers in China. It won't be available as a publicfacing website as I said for probably 9 months or 12 months but I'll let you know when it comes out.

[00:04:17]Make sure you subscribe because there'll be announcement on the channel for that.

[00:04:20]And also if you go to tomsgrindelab.com and download something that I give you for free such as my espresso guide you'll be subscribed to the email list and you'll get a notification as well.

[00:04:29]So, good reason to subscribe at the very least on this channel. Okay, so what's going to be different? Well, first of all, it's going to be OEM only. So, original equipment manufacturers only.

[00:04:38]There are a wealth is ubiquitous white label resellers on these Chinese platforms that are and some of them are great and some of them are not so great, but you don't know. So, this bridge of trust is strengthened by me only promoting OEM original equipment manufactured. So manufacturers who can stand be behind their product because they know their product. They can supply parts and by and large the OEMs do provide a better quality of afterale service. So first of all OEM only.

[00:05:08]Secondly, products are tested and reviewed by me or other independent uh reviewers. Uh thirdly, there's a going to be a price source guarantee. So if you buy from this website, you're not going to find next day that it's 100 bucks cheaper somewhere else. Provided that the distributor is an official distributor of any particular espresso machine or grinder or whatever it else you're buying through this website, there will be a price source guarantee which basically says that they will refund any difference if you find the the product cheaper on an official uh distributor's website. Fourth thing is an additional one-year warranty so that we can communicate with you that these manufacturers back themselves in terms of the quality they'll be required to have a one-year manu manufacturers's extended warranty. Now I'm telling you this because it provides the background for me buying direct from China and my varied experiences. So I want to introduce you to the one manufacturer this has proven to be have systemic uh issues in terms of their standards for after sales service. Now I want to give you the facts as much as possible. Of course there'll be some opinions based on facts as as I conclude this video but I want to give you what's happened without any layering of judgment etc. Just just the facts and then you can decide for yourself. I will provide you with evidence in item six of the communication that I've had with CFO.

[00:06:32]There's a full video there of uh the communication messaging back and forth covering uh almost 6 months at this point. So here's what I bought from CFO direct from the Alibaba web page or or store I should say. The first one I bought was uh actually a pretty good little little device. It was a portable Kessu CP1 travel espresso machine and it was okay. uh it just bought it to play with it I suppose and see what it was like. So there weren't any issues with that. I then bought a G564F which is a fixed RPM uh 64 mil flat bur grinder. It clogged really badly to the point where I couldn't bring a review. I just provided feedback to CFO that they need to fix this. I then uh bought all these items I bought by the way none of them were given to me. Uh G564FV which is a variable RPM. The V stands for variable RPM 64 flap grinder. Same issue. Clogged. Uh I've had a policy up until now if I review a piece of coffee equipment and I really don't like it and I don't think it's up to the standard that it needs to be for commercial use or proumer use I should say, then I just send the feedback to the manufacturer.

[00:07:41]If the item has been given to me, in this case I purchased these items. All the items from CVO were purchased uh and not for a super discount either. So the same price that you you would be able to buy them for. So if that's the case though, if the machine has been given to me and I don't feel I can do a review because I don't think it's up to standard, I will offer to provide the manufacturer or the reseller with feedback, they're generally very interested in that. And if it's been sent to me for free, then I I let them know if they send a return u shipping label, then I'll get it back to them no charge from me for having a look at it, etc. So neither of those two were up to standard. Uh what did we get next? an evenly GP15 espresso machine. I love this little thing. It's a little tiny uh espresso machine has a gear pump. The pump failed. Uh the accountant uh refused to refund for various reasons. I would say this, one of the team members in CFO uh Carson I think was his name.

[00:08:35]That's his English name at least. Was just outstanding. But at some point during our messaging thread, he got pulled out of the equation and other people were jumping in. Either that or Carson has a split personality of some five different personalities.

[00:08:50]Now Carson did the right thing and after the accountant refused to refund. He said look what you paid for that. I'd actually ordered two machines. One was sent default uh defective. The other one was not sent. The accountant refused to refund. But Carson did the right thing and got the equivalent dollar value which was $700, a fair bit of coin. and he uh on my behalf sent that money to a different manufacturer so I could purchase a different machine. So he did the right thing but as it turned out Carson appears to be an exception amongst those customerf facing team. The next one was electric electronic porter filter cleaner which is ineffective. So items two through five I didn't really do anything about. Oh I should show you the next one. The roster. This essentially a white labelled Skywalker roster with an extra console which was very clever. It was okay. It wasn't OEM, but it was uh, you know, for what you paid for it, it was an okay product. And I reviewed that one. I also reviewed the G 180 FV. It's a variable speed 80 mil flatbird joinder. Even though it had bur chamber floor design, it came with three spaces in it. What manufacturer does such a poor job of the bur chamber that they've got to put three spaces stacked up in it? Now, uh, what did I do with all these machines? Well, all of these machines I unsold uh on coffee uh coffee coffees.com.au and you can go and check, you can search for these items.

[00:10:12]You can see that there was full disclosure when I unsold them.

[00:10:15]Generally, I lost money on each of these items. There's a couple of them I broke even on, but there were they were sold sold with full disclosure about what the issues were and what would have to be done to manage it. Uh the item that was kind of like broke the store in the camel's back was as a dual boiler rotary pump espresso machine uh called the E133. again white labeled it wouldn't get past 74° uh and the engineer denied the issue despite the fact that I sent four separate videos uh tested it using electronic scientific uh temperature probe alongside a customized PAR filter uh temperature probe both both sources a third temperature gauge as well none of them registered past 74 degrees they all registered the same temperature so I'm thinking there was no mistake here uh this this was a big problem you can't make good espresso So virtually of any description other than if it's charcoal at 74 degrees and who wants to drink that sort of espresso. So CFO uh more specifically the engineer denied that there was any any issue with the machine. Now I've been playing with espresso machines for some 50 years. So I know how to get it machine up to temperature and it shouldn't be a problem. I also bench tested this against two other Espresses machines with the same equipment, showing they were both performing in excess of 90°, but the E133 unfortunately wouldn't exceed 74° C. CFO's response, which you'll see uh in item six. I have a video of all video of the whole WhatsApp message system uh process or messages I should say, was to send me videos of machines from the same manufacturer but a different model showing that their machines would get in excess of 85° or there or thereabouts after about 30 minutes. Now, I I tried everything with this machine. 30 minutes, 15 minutes, an hour, an hour and a half pulling shot after shot, flushing everything else. Everything I know about espresso machines. I tried it, but this thing would not get past 74 degrees. So, Kovo agreed this was an issue initially. Sent a brew element.

[00:12:15]They sent the wrong one. The engineer said, "Don't don't worry, just try to mash it in there somehow, but the thread wasn't right." Full testament to the quality of the boiler. It didn't strip the thread. They then sent the correct brewing element. I put that in and bang, 74° still max. I also, by the way, had a uh a 15 amp circuit in to ensure that the machine was getting the full 3,300 watts that it allegedly required.

[00:12:41]So, this went on over for more than more than 6 months. Sorry, for more than two months, I should say. Um, so outside of the 60 days, that's where the six comes, uh, of AliExpress, you can raise a dispute. for 6 months. Alibaba, I should say, has a 60-day you where you can raise a dispute if you get a machine, which is probably fair enough. But by the time I fluffed around with them sending the wrong brewing it out, it was about 63 days and I couldn't get a dispute raised on Alibaba.

[00:13:09]Be that as it may, the important point here is that I had uh unlike some of these which I thought were substandard but still functioned. I had a device here which was around about from memory $1,000 US which simply would not perform. It wasn't fit for purpose. I provided as I said four videos uh including a multiple of testing equipment demonstrating that it wouldn't get ever get past 74° regardless of circumstance. also benchmarked against other espresso machines using exactly the same testing equipment which immediately went up over 90 degrees. So I don't know what else you can do apart from providing that sort of evidence but in the end they denied that there was an issue with the machine operator error apparently. So that's the history of uh the machines I bought over almost 6 months. I think I've been very patient.

[00:14:00]I think I've been in the main very courteous and very respectful in the face of some challenging messages from them. But you be the judge of that. If you want to be bothered, uh there's a 12minute video scrolling through all the message chats uh in item six of this of this presentation.

[00:14:17]I'm really trying to be as objective as possible when I'm talking about uh KFO and in generally buying from direct manufacturers. Uh you know, keep cool, it's only coffee and so on and so on and so on. But the reason, as I said before or alluded to before for making this video is that I'm commercial, so I'm going to get burnt sometimes because I'm buying volume and and I accept that. And I really never ever ever had a problem with a product being shipped to me that turns out there's a problem with it.

[00:14:48]Never had a problem with that. So long as the seller or the manufacturer in this case steps up and goes, "Yep, there's a problem. Let us help you fix it." and and items are sent one one one manufacturer sent an item by ship instead of shipping it by air so to speak. Uh so you know two months later it arrives. Okay, I can still live with that even though I wouldn't want you as a consumer to be uh have that experience. I've got machines coming and going all the time so I just put it on the shelf and get back to it. But you shouldn't have to have these sort of experiences. First of all, some of the machines arrived with uh with with features that simply weren't on the website. For example, the E333 is plum in only. It's also 3,300 watts. At the time of purchase, those features were not on the website. So, I had to then install a 15 amp circuit to just to get this damn thing going. Even then, I didn't get mad about it or anything. I just said, "Hey, you guys, you really need to tell people about this." Right?

[00:15:41]So, that's the problems, the products, the problems, and CFO's responses. As I said, one guy, the initial guy, Carson, who was uh supporting me through the WhatsApp thread was terrific. Couldn't fault the guy. Integrity, caring, uh proactive, good response time. But once he got taken out of the loop and I got some other unknown on there who didn't announce that they were a different person, by the way, because it's the same WhatsApp thread, things changed and things got very unreasonable and at in moments quite unpleasant. So, um, what should you do if you're thinking about buying direct? Now, I've got a 16point checklist for you, things to consider and things to check. The first thing is check electrical certific compliance certification because if you import a product from China, and it's not certified in your region, your state, your country, or the Euro zone, whatever it happens to be, uh, then you may not be insured if the thing bursts into flames or if it electrocutes one of your visitors and you get your assuit off. So just just check on that. Um by and large I haven't had a problem so far touchwood with things being earth or grounded or whatever else. Haven't had anything burst into flames. But you just need to check that if you have a non if you have an electrical appliance in your house that has not been certified by your local authorities, you may not be covered for insurance in the case of a fire. So do do check that. Okay, that's really important. Number two, understand you have zero consumer protection if you're buying direct from a manufacturer overseas. And certainly that that case applies doubly so in China. Uh here if we buy locally, we have a state consumer protection uh government agency which will investigate quite thoroughly in every state actually and territory in Australia probably the same in the US and Europe etc. There are government appointed agencies to protect your rights. you that that just doesn't exist between wherever you are. If you're living outside of mainland China, certainly uh confirm that there will be a return label if you need to return the machine under warranty and who pays for it and organizes it. So, you should know that in advance. Um and and this goes hand inhand with the next point. If you're on a platform like AliExpress or Alibaba, only message within the platform. It's a mistake I made to take my conversation at the invitation of CFO outside the platform with the intent of having faster seeing the messages on my mobile phone as they came in in real time.

[00:18:09]Don't do that. Um because if you have something like item 3 confirmed, yes, yes, yes, we'll return the label blah blah blah blah blah, and it's not the message is not on AliExpress or Alibaba, but then if you have to open a dispute, you've got no um in no platform verified communication on which to base your dispute.

[00:18:29]Big one, read the one-star reviews. Now, typically with platforms, they'll put the fivestar reviews at the top. So, it's easy to get an impression that this is all honky dory, it's all okay. And in particular, if you have a look at the number of reviews that have been posted on Alibaba, AliExpress, etc., and you find that the ratio of one to five star reviews, so one star is is 10% or more of the total number of reviews, then that should sell and send alarm bells up. What I do now is I go immediately to the one-star reviews. uh in the case of Cavo, there are lots of them. So, make sure if you're reading any any reviews on a particular product or item on these platforms, make sure uh that uh that you you go to the one-star reviews and then work your way back up. You can mitigate risk by buying only OEM, which is original equipment manufacturer, or you can mitigate risk by buying a proven through a proven local reseller. for example, Turan uh grinders, you know, the the DF64s and so on, the DF80Bs and so on. Some excellent grinders in there.

[00:19:36]Uh very often they will go through local resellers in your country or in your state. And you'll have more chance of getting good quality support than if you were to buy a non a Chinese or otherwise manufactured item sold directly to you in a completely different country where there is no local support. Definitely a factor.

[00:19:58]If you are working through buying stuff from a Chinese manufacturer, pay via platforms such as a uh Ali Express, sorry, AliExpress or Alibaba, etc. because uh then you have some protection uh within within 60 days, which is the next point. Make sure if you have a problem with the machine, you open a dispute with AliExpress or Alibaba within 60 days. Of course, naturally, go to the manufacturer first uh via your messaging thread in those platforms. Uh but but as I said, you've got to you've got to open a dispute within 60 days, otherwise you won't you won't get a listen to. Uh confirm the volts and watts. Again, messaging through those platforms. Grounding earth just to make sure you've got the electrical supply. I do want you do not want to get a 110 volt machine in Australia and you don't want to get a 240 volt machine in the US. Um but the the watch is quite important. just go to AI or Google search and put in the number of watts it is and make sure that your circuit that's installed in your home or your business is going to support um that that level of power. Uh the I have found that Chinese manufacturers in particular some of them not all of them by any means but some of the things I think that the more powerful a machine is the better. uh and if they're marketing to perhaps the US or Europe, that might be the case. But in Australia and New Zealand, we have 10 amp power supply, which means that anything over 2400 watts, it's not going to run or not going to run properly uh on on our on our, you know, domestic power supply.

[00:21:23]So, do check all that. Don't believe stickers. Uh don't believe if someone puts CE, which is the European conformity sticker on their website or on a product machine that it's actually kosher because it may not be. Uh what else? Ask for a manual exploded parts diagram pre-sale. Now the reason I have an asterisk next by the most of them won't ship with a manual um Chinese manufacturers amazing manufacturers and the some of them some of them not all of them not being racist here or generalist some of them don't really understand the concept that the item they're selling is not the complete product that they need to have it most of them well pack them very well by the way they need to have the manual well written by someone for whom English in this case is the first language or French or German as the first language and they need to include that with the machine um not not wait for it to be asked afterwards. There's very few machines that I've actually received from mainland China manufacturers who supply the item grinder, espresso machine, whatever with a manual, including, and some of them are pretty basic. A grinder, you can't go too far wrong with that. You turn it on, dial setting, and off you go. But some of them with quite complex control panels on an espresso machine for which there is no manual. Now the reason I have an asterisk next to the exploded parts diagram is a big issue with a lot of manufacturers uh outside of Europe outside of places where there are uh legislated part supply durations 7 or 10 years uh if you manufacture bring a product into Australia into Europe etc. it's either seven or 10 years that that manufacturer is legally required to supply parts for that particular model. If they don't have an exploded parts diagram, chances are they're not the original equipment manufacturer and or they don't have plans to supply parts past a year, in which case if they produce a product and it breaks down, they just go, "Okay, tough luck. Throw it away. Let's do another machine. See if that breaks down." And you might think I'm being a little flippant about that, but that is actually the reality in some cases is they just they're very good manufacturers, some of them, and some of them are great. Again, not trying to be general in my comments here. This is really about the guys you have to be careful about. So that's why I have a predelection for talking about the negatives and not the whole picture. So ask for exploded parts diagram because if they can supply that, it's an indication that they care about supplying parts after the sale. If they can't, it's not a knockout factor, but it's kind of like, yeah, they may not be they may not be planning to uh, you know, supply that.

[00:23:56]In broad terms, let's go back to the general picture. There are two types of manufacturers that are selling product direct on Alibaba and AliExpress and the other platforms.

[00:24:09]There's those who only care about the sale and they have a systemic culture of selling substandard equipment and refusing to accept responsibility for defective items. And those two things generally go together. selling substandard equipment, not really caring about anything beyond the sale, the initial sale, and then refusing to accept responsibility because if you sell substandard equipment that hasn't been tested properly, it's probably going to break down and and that's it.

[00:24:34]And they might offer you sympathetic words and they use AI to say dear and mister and uh how lovely to to hear from you again, but when push comes to shove, they don't do anything about it. So that's the first category of manufacturer. are the ones that tend to create new machines every every 12 to 18 months, two years, because the old ones are having problems. So, they ditch it and say, "Sorry, we don't make that anymore. Tough luck cuz I don't have any parts." And they just put some new ones out into the marketplace. The second type of manufacturer which in my experience unfortunately and time might change this but in my experience so far in the minority are those who care about people and and who also understand that in order to build a long-term customer a loyal customer base um long-term recognition that their brand is good quality and they stand behind their products. They price their machines at a higher price point because they understand they need to include in that price the resource, the financial resource for product returns, warranty support, and the seven or 10 year commitment to supply parts possibly well after they've stopped selling the product. All of those things cost money.

[00:25:43]Setting up local support around the world, that costs money. And unfortunately, some manufacturers, even the ones with good intent, don't yet understand that it's better to charge, say if it's a $1,000 product, it's really better to charge $1,200 and factor all those hidden costs into the sale so that they can build long-term they can afford to build long-term brand loyalty and and and and a and a quality brand image in the marketplace. So, a lot of manufacturers that have been doing this for 50 or 100 years or even more in some cases in Italy, they understand that they are not here for a one-year deal, for a one-year sale and then build something else. I guess if you're in a country with 1.4 billion people, that's a little different. You can get away with things for a little longer than if you're a country of, say, 24 million like we are here in Australia and in New Zealand 4 million, you get away with it for even shorter duration period of time. So for any Chinese manufacturer who wants to build an international brand of a favorable reputation, my first encouragement to you is increase your prices. You might sell less volume in the short term, but in the long term you'll be a winner because then you have the resource to actually fund product returns, replacement parts, keep inventory, do a good job of manuals and and customer service, etc. All right. Uh, point 13 is be aware that many local techs will refuse to service a machine if you've bought it direct from a manufacturer in China. Uh, and you know what? I can't blame them. They often bear the costs of electrical compliance, which can be in Australia here any $8,000 to $20,000 or more. That's what the importer bears.

[00:27:23]Um, they they set up distribution channels. They have workshops that they pay a lease on probably 24/7, 365 days a year. They have all these costs and then someone comes along and says, "Hey, I got this cheapo machine from China and I know you sell something equivalent for twice the price, but can you fix this because I've got a problem with it." I can understand why they tell you to go and get stuffed. I really can. Uh so, so, so just be aware. You might get lucky and you if you go around the whole state, you'll probably eventually find someone who says, "Oh, shucks. I don't like doing this, but hey, I'll do it for you because I can see you're out of pocket, but please buy from us in future." Right? Uh so because most of these tech repair repair places also sell machines. Uh so it's it's it should be embarrassing for you and I to go along knowing all of this now and ask them to have a look at your machine.

[00:28:12]Yeah, good luck with that plan. Uh if you're buying a cyst on DDP that's delivered duty paid, so there's no messing around with having to go to a warehouse somewhere to pick it up. Uh you don't get slammed with an unexpected duty when it comes across your border.

[00:28:24]It's just simple and easy. Uh, by the way, you can normally choose from air freight, which arrives most places in the world within 10 days to your doorstep, or seaf freight, which will typically take two months. Um, seaf freight will cost you typically half as much or even less, but you are going to have to wait that time, and you won't have any tracking ability when it's on the ship. So, uh, insist on DDP whether you go sea or by air. Software and firmware add complexity. More things to go wrong. Uh, some machines use generic parts like rotary pumps out of a factory in Italy or wherever else and you can get the parts sometimes even on the same websites such as AliExpress and Alibaba that sold you the original machine. The VS3 is would be a good example for that, the grinder. But if you throw in software and firmware on that, well, good luck getting that on Alibaba. You know, it's got to be updated by the manufacturer.

[00:29:14]So, don't believe you can dodge bullets.

[00:29:16]There's this great video. I don't know if you ever saw it, but The Matrix and the the hero Nero hero Nero. Was it Nero? Anyway, the main character developed the ability to dodge bullets.

[00:29:27]It's a science fiction movie. Fantastic movie, The Matrix. One of my all-time favorites. So, there we go. Neo was dodging bullets and uh you know, Agent Smith would fire bullets at him or perhaps 100 Agent Smiths would fire bullets at him. He just dog dodge. You have been warned if you buy from a manufacturer that has a lot of one-star reviews, don't think that you're going to be able to dodge the bullet when it comes your way of having a machine that doesn't function well or isn't the machine that you bought or any number of the other issues that that I've experienced because you probably won't be able to dodge that bullet. Hopefully when I get made chinina coffeequipment.com up and running, you'll be able to buy with some confidence. But until then, please consider these points and use the parts of this that are effectively a checklist. So, having um vented my spleen on that lot, some Chinese-based manufacturing factories that are managed outside of China, and some of the ones that manage them in can be trusted. The ones that I bought product from and I can trust include the following. And leading the pack who set the global standard for best practice and super support after sales service part supply John Buckman who started decent espresso is a guy who cares. It doesn't matter what the law says. It doesn't matter what even his own warranty says. If he thinks something needs to be put right, he puts it right.

[00:30:59]So that's why I've got decent espresso top of the pack. uh WPM have been excellent. Uh their support can vary depending on which region you're in and who's looking after it, but WPM itself have factored into their prices. Hong Kong based um but but manufacturing WP manufacturing for 20 might even be 30 years now. Coffee equipment a lot of them have only been manufacturing for 5 years or 10 years. So they don't have the depth of experience of someone like WPM who have manufactured wise label for people like uh niche the niche zero and so on uh to some being espresso machines. So they really had the manufacturing process really dialed in very well dialed in very well and they do care about people they have priced after sales support returns etc into their pricing. Varia based in Singapore.

[00:31:47]U Ramsey Guide started that business.

[00:31:50]They really knocking out of the ballpark with the VS3. Had some issues with that, but they sorted them out of the VS6 and the VS4. One of my favorite grinder.

[00:31:58]Certainly the VS6 is a grinder I hope is waiting for me there in heaven when I get there. Hopefully I'm going the right direction. Um, so who else we got? Time amazing philosophy, values, vision. Man, you wouldn't get a more caring company.

[00:32:14]uh based on my experience at least observations of their culture the systemic culture is well depart from the companies like Kafovo who I think are destined for the scrap heap in terms of manufacturing reputation easy press great products good after sale support Turin if you're buying from a local reseller or even df64 coffee.com who I have supported and promoted and I've had my differences of opinion with but you know you get I don't mind a difference of opinion yeah it can be a little bit grating sometimes But generally they've done the right thing and and so Anna there at df64 coffee.com they ship globally. That's why I mentioned them separately to a local reseller because Turan will sell uh to to any distribution channel. But if you buy locally it's certainly a lot easier to to to validate that the reseller in your area through uh you know to to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through to through online ratings etc is someone who's reputable and follows through. Who else? Um I don't know who else. add your post sales support experiences below because we want to find out the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, finally, I've got two videos for you. Uh, and the first one is um just a short video on one star reviews for for CFO. The second one is long and boring. It's a five month thread of my messages in WhatsApp with uh with CFO. I wanted to record the screen, which you can do pretty easily.

[00:33:36]Thank you, Samsung uh Android. recorded the screen so that if CFO decide to delete the thread I've got a copy of it so it's there and I'm giving you that just to so you can validate you think well I don't know Tom either you know I may not know Kov I don't really know Tom what's he like there is 5 months track record of my what I think is courteous objective reasonable respectful communications and requests for help providing feedback etc and you can see how towards the end of that someone else took over the messaging thread from Kavo's point of view and it became difficult and challenging And in the end, it was clear that they weren't going to honor the warranty. And because I was something like 63 or 64 days uh away from delivery, Alibaba weren't going to help either. So, yeah, there's a grand down the hatch. But I always knew that I was going to be kissing frogs to find that that prince. Uh so, for me, it's a business write-off. It still hurts, but it's a business write-off. And and so it kind of I I wasn't as annoyed as you might be if this had happened to you with an espresso machine because it would be your kind of, you know, probably your one and only, but for me, it's one of a series of dates that I had that one of them just didn't work out right. So, how can you help with this? Post your experiences below. Now, if if I I don't really want you to post if you had a minor disagreement with a reseller who tried to do the right thing, you know, maybe ask you to provide this the uh provide some symptoms via email, maybe ask you to shoot, maybe ask you to shoot a video to to see, maybe suggested they send you parts. So, that's standard practice if you're buying globally, internationally. It's not like you can take a machine down to the local repair shop half an hour away, you know, that that what could be 8,000 mi away. So, and these are reasonable requests that a a seller or a manufacturer will make of you or I in order to see if they can help you. Now, I've seen people on forums get totally frustrated with this.

[00:35:30]Give them time. It might take a few weeks. It's a different dynamic than if you just bought it from the local shop.

[00:35:35]And remember, you're the one who tried to save a few bucks. I'm the one who tried to save a few bucks. And so, there is a price to be paid for that. And generally, even with the wellsupported products that you buy, it's going to take longer than if you simply drive down the road and drop it off to the bench of a tech repair place. So, let me know what your experiences have been.

[00:35:53]Uh, from now on, if I buy products from a manufacturer and the product is crap, I'll probably give them feedback and a chance to uh to to fix it before doing a review. But if I d buy product from a manufacturer and the after sales support is rubbish, I will call them out because I want you to be saved from that experience. It's not a vendetta for me.

[00:36:15]It's telling the facts as best I can objectively see that so that you can make an informed decision about the risk level from buying from any particular manufacturer, be that China or wherever else. So that's it for me. Make sure you share this video with your friends. Make sure you subscribe to stay in the loop because I've got a total of eight espresso machines on the slowboat from China from different manufacturers. And when they arrive, I'm going to be lining them all up in the coffee lab and I'm going to be reviewing every single one.

[00:36:44]Uh hopefully one of them breaks sort of hopefully and I can find out what the afterale service is like and tell you about that as well. Make sure you subscribe. As a warning to any of your coffee addicted friends, make sure you share this video with them so that they are in the loop in terms of what's happening or what potentially might or might not happen when they buy from China. Cheers.

[00:37:06]So, this is just an example of what to look for on a reviews page. You'll see up here store credibility 4.3 out of five. Pretty darn good, right? And then customer reviews 489 almost 90% positive. You'll find that reviews either go in at mostly fivestar or one star. Five stars probably a good product or possibly someone's just got it out of the box, tried it once and gone, "Yay, it's terrific." The ones to look for are the onestar reviews or the two star reviews. Make sure you read them. Uh, you know, water tank leaks all the time, even when I don't use it. Um, seller refused responsibility for the issue. Store uncooperative, ignores messages, do not believe the advertisements, followed all the instructions, remove the blockage, blah blah blah. So, just be aware. That's the main thing. Read these onestar reviews.

[00:38:02]And if you've got 10% of the total reviews, which are one star, you have been warned.

[00:38:12]Very bad. Every time I use it, the grinder returns to zero even if the calibration is set to 50. Saudi Arabia.

[00:38:19]Um, so you know, you've got products that are being shipped that are not as advertised. You've got products arriving which don't have a manual. You've got nonresponse from, and this is all cuovo, but you do it yourself. Do yourself a favor. Go to the AliExpress store. Go to the Alibaba store. This is what I should have done and what I have since learned I would need to do if I were going to buy again. So, u yeah, I just thought I'd run through these star reviews. Uh but you can do that at your own leisure.

[00:38:52]I'm just going to let the rest of this video play out.

[00:38:55]Uh so you can have a quick read of some of the issues.

[00:47:33]Here we go. It's displaying 95°. It's been on for about half an hour. Long press single cut button.

[00:47:54]How long do you want me to press it for?

[00:47:56]Because that's like 8 seconds now. It still hasn't done anything.

[00:48:01]It just displays 95°.

[00:48:05]1 second press just beeps. Doesn't change anything. One and pressing now for 3 seconds. 4 seconds. 5 6 7 8 9 10.

[00:48:18]It doesn't matter how long I press that button for, short or long, it doesn't change the settings here. So d for the steam button. It's exactly the same deal. Doesn't matter how long I press it for. It doesn't start flashing the numbers at which point I could begin.

[00:49:07]So as per your request flush Next thing they wanted me to do is to long press to enter the temperature settings.

[00:49:29]So that's 5 seconds. Didn't do anything.

[00:49:32]See these these numbers. Um, and yeah, not getting over 7 and 12 bar on the pressure gauge.