In democratic governance, free speech is a fundamental human right that allows citizens to express opinions without fear of government censorship, but this right is not absolute and must be balanced against legitimate concerns like public order and national security. The case of Wam Bafo's arrest for spreading false news illustrates the ongoing debate about where to draw the line between protecting free expression and preventing harm, highlighting the importance of clear legal frameworks and judicial discretion in maintaining democratic discourse.
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Well, good morning and uh welcome to current agenda. It's been a wonderful week, a week of downpours.
uh the storms haven't been limited only to the weather. I mean, if you've been paying attention to the the the the political climate, the governing climate, you realize that we have had legal tender roles. We've had uh storms brewing around free speech. Now, all of this has reignited a very interesting debate. Where is the line between public order and political intimidation?
or persecution. As always, we will methodolically in this morning will go through a period to go through every entire dosier of topics on this program.
Sit back and be part of our discussions.
So I start as we all know a three member panel of the court of appeal has shaken the foundations of Ghana's banking sector cleanup. In a unanimous decision, the court overturn the Bank of Ghana's 2019 revocation of the GN Savings and Loans Company Limited license, calling the central bank's move unfair and unreasonable.
The judges went further. They ordered the receiver to hand possession, management, and control of the company back to its shareholders.
Now with this, both the August 2019 revocation and the January 2024 high court ruling that backed it has been quashed.
This by far may be the biggest legal blow yet to Ghana's controversial financial sector cleanup.
Between 2018 and 2019, if you remember, banks, savings and loans, and micro finance institutions, including some finance houses, fell in quick succession.
Thousands of jobs vanished.
Customers were left stranded.
And today, with this ruling, what does it mean? Does it justify those critics who insisted that some of these institutions were fairly target unfairly targeted?
Do they feel vindicated? Now for others, this raises harder question.
Could this unlock a wave of compensation claims and lawsuits from other collapse firms?
Or is this government's way of trying to correct past wrongs? Or simply, is it cashing in on its campaign promises?
While the banking sector reels, another debate is flaring.
Free speech versus political persecution.
You've heard of M P M P M P M P M P M P M P M P M P M P's Bono Regional ChairmanWam Bafo popularly known as Abra DC that he was arrested allegedly for spreading false news.
He since been released on bail but his arrest has sparked outrage with the MPP accusing government of criminalizing dissent and going after opposition voices.
The fallout is spreading.
The party has petitioned the diplomatic community and in a separate move a private legal practitioner and a citizen Austin Quabramo Powers has taken sections 2081 and 282 of the criminal offenses act to the Supreme Court for interpretation.
He argues that those provisions criminalizes statements likely to cause fear and alarm.
He argues that the law chokes free speech.
It chokes media freedom. At the same time, the presumption of innocence is not respected.
Critics are asking a very sharp question. Is the law being used to silence opponents and intimidate intimidate disscent?
This is what we will discuss this morning on car agenda. As usual, we are your Saturday morning companion where we bring the issues to your table to interrogate and help shape national discourse, shape the democracy, shape our justice system and plunge together ourselves into a good economic future.
As usual, current agenda is sponsored by Bank of Africa and the NPA. Bank of Africa says that if you have any information you need to update, visit any of its branches and make your updates so that they would have up to or current information about you to present to you customized and tailor made products. The National Petroleum Authority also says if you visit any fuel oil station or any gas station and you are met with poor customer service or the quality of fuel you procure is not up to standard or even the quantity does not meet what is expected. There's no reason you argue with them. Just walk to any of their original offices or national office along the N1 highway aulu and make your complaint.
After the break, we'll have a one-on-one with the MD for the Metro Mass Transit to discuss issues bordering on transportation in the capital city and other places.
If you recall some weeks ago in our doing going through the reflections, we touched on how we expect the 100 buses that had come to improve on the situation. We hear from him whether this has happened knowing that the vice president launched these buses recently.
What is the plan? How do we intend to integrate this into the already existing fleet and other developments? What the plan is for the future? We'll discuss this with the MD of the Metro Mass Transit. We'll be right back after this break.
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Well, welcome back to current agenda, your Saturday morning companion and then your news authoritative news analysis program. Well, as I announced earlier, we will be having uh a discussion with the MD of the Metro Mass Transit. Uh we will be discussing the issues in in regards to the operations of of the of the company and also some strategic um plans that the company also has.
However, before we do that, I will do a bit of a throwback on the the reflections we did when we heard that the government had taken delivery of some 100 buses that intended to inject into the fleet that it has. So, let's just take um a listen um to to dovetail into our discussions uh right after that.
My reflections is on buses in the yard, commuters in distress. The Minister for Government Communication, Mr. Felix Guacio Fusu, has announced the arrival of 100 new 29 seater buses meant to ease Ghana's deepening transport crisis. On paper, it reads like relief. On the streets, it reads like silence. Because if the buses are here, why are they not running? That's the question. In Accra, Kumasi, Takra, and beyond, the daily grind goes on. Commuters remain at the mercy of throttle operators who have turned scarcity into strategy. Fair swell without warning. Short routes are splinter into costly stops. Passengers pay more to arrive later. Squeezed into a system that punishes the very people it should carry. The suffering isn't abstract. It's rush. It's relentless. So the question returns louder this time.
What exactly are we waiting for? Too often in this country, urgency is laid on the altar of ceremony.
Must every solution wait for a ribbon?
Must we build a d polish speech and hold buses hostage to presidential schedules before wheels can touch as felt?
Governance is not theater. Public service is not a photo opportunity.
Right now, the ordinary Ghanaian is stretched thin. Transport isn't luxury, but rather a lifeline. Workers racing the clock to their jobs, traders moving goods before the sun gets too high, and students chasing education one tro at a time. Each day these buses sit packed is another day of hardship. We chose not to end. None of this dismisses the government's step. Procuring buses matters, but procurement isn't progress.
Deployment is impact lives on the roads, not in press releases. Announcements don't move people. Buses do. And beyond deployment lies another critical issue, maintenance. Who will keep them running?
>> Right. So I I I believe the point we would want to make uh has been heard. Uh I'll come into studio to introduce my guest this morning. I have with me the managing director for the Metro Mass Transit. He's uh Mr. Khal Caesar. I hope I've got the name correct or Esquire.
>> Equal Caesar. Good morning, sir.
>> Good morning, my brother.
>> I hope you're doing well.
>> Fine. I'm good. By God's grace.
>> I hope you're doing well, too. Well, we are we are we are we are we are we believe in God.
We believe in God. Anyway, so um how is Metro Mass doing? Well, uh Metro Mass is doing well.
Uh we do know that some time ago metro mass operations or services became a topical issue >> because the company was just going down day by day in terms of its uh fleet size and in terms of it services.
And so that was the main challenge we needed to confront with when we were actually given the responsibility to oversee the activities of betroas and today I can say with pride that the narrative has changed.
>> Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So uh since you you mentioned that the services were were going down, what what maybe to educate our our viewers and our listeners, what really is the mandate of the Metro Mass Transit? Cuz we know there's STC, we know there's but what really is the mandate of the Metro Mass transit? How different is it from what STC does or other transport agencies?
Metro Mass is actually uh a public intervention transport uh system.
The mandate of the company is to provide mass transport services to the people of this country. When I see uh mass transport services, it means that we are supposed to provide intra and intercity transport services. Inter means from maybe let's take it from the bigger cities to the other cities from district to another district from region to another region >> just across the country that gives you the inter city services >> then intra when you take a for instance the metropolis is within >> providing services within the metropolis and the bigger cities and the you know h all the place all the you know regions in the country >> that is the intra. So if we have bus services within Ara and this enclave that is the intra city services >> right >> and so the mandate stipulates strictly that we should do that and also to ensure that we serve the underserved communities you know around the country.
Remember in this country we have so many communities especially the rural communities that the private sector the private transport operators will not want to apply simply because of maybe the road the nature of the road and the the the nature of the place.
>> So they leave those places on set and many of those uh uh people there do not get transport services. How to even cut their food stuff and other things to come to the markets or city centers or the market centers to sell? they cannot get services. So the mandate also stipulated that we should ensure that we bridge that gap >> where transport services are not going and another important issue too is metro mass is supposed to also you know provide uh uh employment opportunities.
So as we we we try to serve the people of this country we need to also be conscious of the fact that we we need to provide you know job opportunities to the teeming youth of this country. So these were the major considerations that were actually taken when betro was established.
>> Okay. When you mention inter city because I noticed also that I might be wrong but STC also does we have STC inter city. Does it not conflict?
>> It doesn't conflict. You see STC don't uh uh SEC do enter only inter >> they go on long rules >> right? But you see if you you go to maybe let's take here for instance this is a region.
>> Yeah.
>> From here to Ada.
>> Yeah.
>> Is is it's is from here to the other is not intra city.
>> Yes. To eastern region. Greater to eastern region. Yes.
>> Yes. H what is STC do not do those short short distances.
>> Okay. Maybe for they are doing that but metro mass we do those long distances as well >> then now also do trot fraud within the >> the regions >> the regions >> okay >> and also between districts and districts >> from the district capital to the to the regional capital >> that it gives you yes >> right >> so that is how our operations are >> so currently how many routes does the metro mass transit supply >> um traditionally ally we are supposed to be operating about 385 rounds >> but suddenly because our uh machines or our equipments we are using have dri all time low I mean the fleet size we only operating just about 80 routes or roots >> out of the 387 >> yes >> have we ever have we ever operated a 387 before have we ever has there ever been a point in time that we were active on each of these routes Precisely.
>> If we had never done that, we wouldn't have known the rules that we we are supposed to operate >> because when actually was started by his excellency president Kufur at the time.
Yes. They started with some small fleet at a point maybe in the the after a year going to two years there about the fleet size increase up to a,000 plus even during uh uh NDC1 period metro mass had close to,500 or so buses >> and so when all those buses were there or when the company was having a I was well I mean ritual all these roots were actually uh rooted.
>> Mhm.
>> So at a point we had thousand almost close to,500 fleets.
>> Yes.
>> As of today how many fleets do we have or at the time you took over?
>> When I took over in fact I was bequeted with just 461.
Now out of that we had uh 119 >> buses that were serviceable and we had 227 completely unserviceable 119 serviceable serviceable here means it's movable and operational.
>> Yes. Okay. No what is not 98.
>> So 98 were movable and operational. No, no, not that serviceable. Serviceable means and can be they were packed. Okay.
>> And can be repaired.
>> Can be repaired.
>> And I said 227 unserviceable. You can't repair them.
>> Okay. So 98 plus 227.
>> Yes.
>> Out of So the rest will be what were actually operational.
>> Yes.
>> So how many were operational?
>> Operational was 136.
>> Okay.
>> Even the 136 doesn't mean that you can move all those 136 because of maintenance and all those things. So aely we root just 115 aely out of the 136 >> out of the yes out of the 13 we we we actually you know uh were given we realized that you couldn't even uh root them all because of maintenance and maintenance demand. Some were just tie >> some brakes and all those things. And because of that they were packed.
So they were part of the 136 fleets.
And so because of that every day you can just route 115. Sometime you can even route just 80 or 90 or 100 because a time will come you may have about 80 or so cars breaking down the same time >> from different you know parts of the country.
>> Okay. some maybe with having the braking system or some having you know some hies and some springs or all those things or hop >> and so for now the range I've given you the average range the 115 I've given you is what we can route so sometime we can route between 100 and the 115 >> you you mentioned earlier as part of your mandate that uh you were supposed to help improve unemployment and jobs.
How many permanent employees do you have as of today?
>> As of today, >> we have over 1,500 employees.
>> So you you're saying that the operations of 86 buses.
>> Yeah.
>> Is used to pay salaries and other benefits for,000 plus employees.
>> That is the magic of it. Because you see if we take the international standard it's supposed to be that six employees should depend on one bus that's 6 is to1 today as we speak we are doing about 13 is to one 13 about 13 h workers are depend on only one bus which is against the international standard and the magic of it is why you are just asking you see to be very sincere with you transport is a very lucrative uh business. Uh if transport service, if transport operation is done very well, okay, it it won't be a misnormal.
But when we have a situation that your revenue mobilization doesn't follow the right you know prescription you end up by having so so much of the revenue being mobilized ending into some staff's pocket then the just the rest coming to the kitty >> when we came that was one of the major challenge the major challenge was that even uh the workers were not paid at the same time.
>> There were so many areas their their pension you know were not paid to the farm managers. So the company owed a lot to SNIT, owed a lot to glyco even full well that the company used to draw to service the buses and all those since they were owing so much.
And so it was a heckle tax to to to to handle. But you see in all these you need prudent management skills and you need the cooperation of everybody. You see the issue too is that a company a transport company like Metro if your workers are not well motivated so many things can happen. Their salary levels were all time low.
So when you don't pay your workers well and they see physical cash every day the temptation to pocket some is very very high. And that's what was happening. And so apart from that too we realized that even though my predecessor introduced you know a revenue collection solution >> but it was not fully implemented. It was just about 40 40 50% you know implementation stage >> and so we needed to also intensify that because you see the the the the human being is is funny. If you touch a human being with physical things you don't want him to touch you know over time he may be tempted to go near it. So if uh conductors collect physical cash and his salary or his salary is very small >> what do you think he will do?
For instance, when we came a conductor's pay was 30 uh uh sorry 770 Ghana cities sorry yeah 770 Ghana cities that's gross >> gross. So you can imagine the net how much is he's going home with >> the driver's pay I think the highest driver's pay was just about,000 uh >> 200 or so >> ever.
>> Wow.
>> So and these are the people who actually mobilizes they they mobilize the revenue for the company. So, so what what what I mean you said that your predecessor put in some measures to improve on revenue generation which was about 50% implemented. So since you came what?
>> It was just about 45%.
>> Okay. So since you came have you continued with the other 65.
>> So that's what I'm coming to. So we there was the urgent need to ensure that we we actually uh cover the rest of the percentage. We actually work to ensure that revenue being collected is 100% automated. But as I I speak to you, we are just about 90 95 98% automation of our revenue collection. Which means that all our h revenue collection is through e-cash. You can't the the the conductor will not be giving physical you know uh cash.
>> Now if we take metro bus we pay through momo or card.
>> Oh yes >> even today.
>> Oh today. So today if I jump on any metro mass bus and any the conductor ask me to give the him cash I can tell him that.
>> Yeah. Yes. You can you can challenge the conductor. You see and as I said the human being is very funny >> when they go to the far end where nobody is there and you see our uh passengers or our commuters are vulnerable. If you're a passenger and you have stood at your point for over 2 hours looking for a vehicle and it's not coming a metro mouse suddenly surface >> then the conductor says give me the money then you are challenging that let me let me give me the card and I'll swipe or let me give you momu >> what will happen >> right >> he may just decide to go and leave you so because of that the passenger don't always challenge these conductors >> fair >> but if it is in a car here >> and the conductor knows that he's just my office she she I mean he or she could easily be reported >> she will behave >> right so let let me understand so there are two ways to join the the metro mass either I go to a loading bay or a dock >> where when I go there's a ticketing system >> sure >> I go to the the cashier I indicate which my destination >> they check in the system give me my uh the fair I pay digital I use the card to pay they give me my ticket I go sit in the bus it takes off so that is one route Yes, >> there's another route where I am at a a bus stop. When the bus gets there, I hop on the bus. Now, in this instance, how do I do a digital payment?
>> Oh, what you see when you when you go >> the he's supposed to the the what is the >> the conductor >> the conductor >> the conductor is supposed to to uh uh uh is supposed to collect the money.
>> Okay.
>> But issue you with the digital receipt.
Okay, >> you understand >> right >> digital because immed is issued to you digitally >> it reflects on our system that she has collected so you can't packet it >> okay >> you understand >> okay >> but if it's not >> they not give you a digital receipt and it's just any ordinary receipt >> it can't reflect >> okay >> so she can easily pocket the money >> so now the obligation is now being placed on the passenger to insist on a digital >> yes >> so which means that if I do not insist that conductor gets to pocket the money >> yes >> so that's that's still leakage we need to solve.
>> Oh yes. So these are the leakages that actually has actually affected the company over the years.
>> So but when we came and we actually tried and bridge the gap >> the uh uh revenue mobilization or revenue collection shut up >> right >> because when we came our predecessors we were mobilizing between you know uh 8 to 9 million a month. Today we collect over 40 million a month >> on the 87 buses.
>> Yes.
>> Meaning if we have our >> I'm not saying don't quote me wrong. I'm not saying 87 buses. I give you a range >> but because of maintenance and all those things.
>> So let's say let's say 150 buses.
>> Yes. Sometimes it will go down other time it will come up.
>> Yeah. So just on the same even lower.
Our predecessors were using over 140 buses >> on road >> right >> averaging >> and we're mobilizing I mean that low eh uh what they say revenue >> but we are using lowest because you see some of the buses have outlived their useful uh uh operations period >> and so the maintenance cost is high >> right >> that is why we actually had to cry to government >> for this kind of intervention to happen >> and I do know that with the you know deception of these buses we are going to have more you know >> once you've mentioned the the new buses what's the plan for the new buses are they just are they to add to the number or they supposed to replace the ones that are costing you more maintenance cost? Oh, the buses the new buses are supposed to uh you augmenting >> augument the fleet that we have right >> and as I said we are using still using fleet that are over 10 years some are 13 years these new buses is are not just for maybe a crack they are going to be uh deployed across the country >> because people sometime I always love when people sit in a cry here and they talk as if you you know lack of transport services is only happening in Ara it happens everywhere and it's even worse in the rural communities somebody wants to travel to the city center and for 2 days he has no transport don't you see that one is worse southern somebody just stand at kj or standing at cycle here to get ro to go home and maybe spend about two or three three hours you look at the two somebody in my village or in gau want I mean he wants to travel from GU to maybe for 2 days he has not had any transport service.
Have you seen the situation? And so these buses that have come per our mandate, we are not supposed to just say because gad is scrambling for buses every day, everything should be put here. No, >> we are going to serve all the rules, critical rules where the people of this country not any you know fault of de are maybe located at that point needs transport services. And my brother you should also appreciate that see globally globally transport services transport service is a a catalyst to economic development. It's a catalyst to every economic growth and so if you don't have efficient available effective transport system the country will continue to suffer. You wait but for the intervention of government coming into transport services it was only just private sector >> this country will be not be like as we are seeing today >> because the private operators would take on due advantage of the you know situation and just overcharge >> right >> the the the vulnerable people of this country >> right right so the there is a deployment plan for the 100 >> sure we've we've already map out all our route all our deployments you know, >> plans and so from let's go. But you see the fact is that when a bus a new bus come it under goes a certain protocol before you deploy it. You cannot just say because the bus has come oh the following day you can't do that. So that explains why >> yes there's been this long wait >> you have to you have to you have to register you have to ensure you have to service you have to do a lot you have to do labeling a lot of things go on >> even as a private operators when they bring in their buses it doesn't just come in the following day they are deploying it no and all Ghanaians should understand we know Ghanaians are so desperate to get the services of these new buses but you should understand that these buses will have to undergo a certain protocol and even the drivers that are going to drive our buses. We don't pick west side drivers and just hand over keys to them.
No, they must go through some routine you know training so that because the lives of our people are also very important. If you have a very bad driver driving you from one point to another there it would have been good you didn't even get a transport service at all. Hey engineer, not to catch you. You see, it was in October 2025 that your sector minister >> Yes.
>> spoke in parliament that the there's a short to long-term plan of getting 500 buses to augment the fleet that you had.
It was in February that we heard that the first batch even though he said 150 had had landed. We had October to February to identify the drivers, identify the conductors and train them in waiting. We had the same problem when we were waiting for ambulances. We waited for ambulances to land in Ghana before we thought of training ambulance drivers. This is project management typically and I'm I'm sure you you I mean with your experience you you'd appreciate this. We we don't wait to see the bus land in Ghana cleared from the port to our our our base before we now start recruiting drivers. We train all these people so the events are concurrently uh done.
You understand? So if if if we are explained that the reason for the delay in releasing the bus if you're talking about the the registration and the insurance and everything I mean SIC is one of your your your shareholders. So I I I believe that I want to even believe that if SIC is is has an interest in Metroass and there are buses coming obviously the operational plan strategic plan as to whether to when to get insurance and all those things are things are already laid in the pipeline and it becomes automatic but it looks like it was pump and pageantry everybody was told about 100 buses then now we had to wait leaving people to to um anticipate and and say all all manner of things as if we are waiting for a certain ceremony. need to release them.
>> No, you see uh don't get it wrong.
I've told you that when our new buses come or when we have new machines, >> we even train the drivers who are going to operate it on that machine, >> right?
You see these are new Isuzu buses that we have procured and I can assure you that before the drivers will be given the keys they need to be taken through how to use even that machine and that will be something you are doing to reduce the risks the risks of the misuse of that machine is is is an aspect of it but if you don't do that and you say because they are trained drivers the buses just arrive and you hand over the keys to them before you realize in no time >> they are breaking down here and there >> so they have to be taken through >> how to use these machines efficiently and effectively so all those things add up to the other protocols I talked about so that it to delay the release of these machines you don't just and that's why I'm saying that that's why we are different from The private operators >> the private operators >> that's why you can every now and then they crashing their buses they crashing their vehicles >> metro mass hardly do we get asent like that >> right >> you understand if we check is also STC >> hardly we do because >> we have a certain protocol >> when we are engaging these drivers when we engaging these our >> uh uh conductors and employees >> right >> so because of that they able to give us give of their best.
>> Okay.
>> And we want we don't want a situation where where our buses will be crashing.
>> Okay.
>> You know that's >> or getting accidents frequently. So we need to actually as in as much as we think of serving the people expeditiously. We must also be thinking about their lives.
>> True. Well this 100 you said that there's a deployment plan. Are you looking more at inter city or intra city for this 100 or it's a mixture?
>> It's a mixture as I told you. You see, and if you look at it, this is even just a twin night seater.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And the 29 seater is not always suitable for intraity.
>> Why? Because you look at the occupancy.
And remember, you are not just buying the bus to come and serve the people of this country. And just like that, so that when expires, we go and be looking for money again to come and, you know, go and buy buses to come and serve the people of this country.
You must break even so that you can even use that to replace the aging ones.
True.
>> But when you use this what say 29 >> 29 se you wouldn't be able to break even in the shortest possible time.
>> That is if you're doing it for >> so you need a high occupancy one >> like 45 seater 50 seater or even uh maybe 30 seater but where people can even stand for short shorter distances.
Those are the very you know vehicles that are very good for the intricacity.
>> But it doesn't mean that these buses some of them will not do in interest.
Some of them will do.
>> Okay.
>> But as I've explained to you, I'm saying that we are deploying it to the whole country.
>> We have 16 branches for now. The new regions are not part of them are not part of our branches.
>> Okay. And we are immediately making moves to establish branches in all the new regions so that every Ghanaian will have the opportunity that mean you have regions you have presence in only 10 not all 16.
>> Yes. No not that we have only we have >> let's say offices.
>> Yes. Offices. Okay.
>> If not the presidents are all over but established offices with workshop and all those time. One one of the things we we we have come to realize with STC and the Metro Mass is the carrying of goods because a lot of traders prefer to use these transport services in in selecting these buses. Was that taken into consideration to be able to know the the net weight and everything?
>> Yeah. You see these particular buses that you have seen they are customized indeed. We did we we we move to the manufacturer and told the manufacturer what we preferred. The original bus don't have much luggage compartment. the bus you see it the compartment is just at the back small but we told them that look here it's not like I mean where where it was produced where you don't you know here so many people especially from the villages to the city centers they want to carry your luggages so they should make the luggage compartment big enough >> okay you if you take the if you enter the bus you will see that there's a screen now people can sit in the comfort port of their seat and look at what's happening across the country. We have a charging port now. You can easily charge your phone. There's a USB charging port that you can easily charge your phone.
It's fully air conditioned. So, it is actually, you know, specially customized for MMT.
>> Now, we have come up with another initiative.
We want to operate a separate cargo session.
Currently we are underway trying to get the cargo trucks so that the cargo trucks will also be deployed across the country. Right.
>> A place like a place like Tu, a place like you know Tachima and all those places where our food you know come from to the bigger cities.
Many many many farmers have lost including even traders have lost through their their you know activities because they don't have transport services.
where if you go to buy something like orange and perishable goods and you don't get an immediate transport service, you are going to run into loss.
>> So now we have thought about it clearly uh carefully. I'm seeing that we need cargo tracks across the country. Even cargo from Ara here to the various regions over the years and even now has been a challenge >> and so the h good people of this country to expect very soon that metro mass will advertise our cargo services >> you know so we're going to have a special cargo service >> okay >> then we're also going to h have an express service system >> that will You know some of our buses that's when we are well restocked well with doing express service we have people who want to go to the station you don't want to stand even 5 minutes so that immediately you just come to metro mass transit you have your express buses going to maybe express bus going to au >> and maybe the au car is there >> so when you just go in that's why we are That's why we are bringing the 15 seater >> right >> within some 5 10 minutes it's full then you go >> okay okay >> and so very soon the Ghanaians will hear us more on air our services you know the the innovation we've injected into the whole system to just make everybody comfortable and also have access to uh transport at any time that they wish to do. Well, one one of the uh my viewers was already asking me to ask you a question on the goods currency. When you mentioned cargo, you said that's good thinking. So, um kudos to to to your team. But how do we manage this problem of maintenance? Cuz if we we had,500 plus and then now today we are hooing around between 80 to 150. Now we're bringing on top another 100. How do we make sure that in the next two three years we will not come back and be seeing the thing same thing that well we have this number serviceable this number not serviceable and we have to auction and all those things.
>> Yeah I think that um the major problem I actually and my team realiz is that some of the machines or the buses that were given to Mitroas were not fit for purpose.
We had this Chinese uh bus known as Hungai buses.
>> The Hungai buses understand they were 20 200 delivered to Bumas by government but the Hongai buses don't drive well within the Ghanaian territory.
>> Are they the similar buses that the VI VIP have been using?
>> I don't know.
>> Okay. So, so these buses we didn't came between 2016 2017. All were not delivered at the same time. But as I speak today, we only have about eight hung on buses operational. The rest some are even scrap. That's why I'm saying that they were not fit for a purpose. M >> you see in Ghana here we like for inance the buses that we we we always want to to to operate well with are buses with springs >> because of our you know uh uh operations in the hintterlands the motorraable rules if we use buses that have bellows air suspensions it will not it will not actually live up to expectation but many of these buses like even the double buses that we They have air suspension and the air suspension when you go on the corugated road it breaks down >> right >> and because of that the maintenance cost is so huge. So many of the buses that came Yes not fit my purpose. M >> in fact the the buses that have sustained the company up to now are the VDL with the D engine buses >> they have sustained the company till today as we >> were the VDL that President Kufur got in cuz VDL was the one under the the the Belgian concessionary >> Sure sure they are the robots buses that in fact that can drive very well >> in our country here >> right >> but you know the Ghanaian uh uh commuter or the passenger test uh over time has changed Those days no Ghanaian bothered about when you enter a bus there's no condition >> especially those even from the rural folk they were good to go with any other bars >> provided they they can sit comfortably in the car but today many people >> okay >> once bars or they want transport that have at least air condition >> so that when you are traveling from your village to the bigger city center a program >> you don't get there and you have to go and change your clothing >> and So that's why all our prescription now all buses that are coming should be fitted with air conditioning.
>> So um government is is pushing or is preaching uh a PPP arrangement across >> yeah sure >> private partnership is metro mass open to similar collaborations where individuals who own buses can come rent or lease the buses to metro mass for you to augment or add to your fleet run them. uh at the end of the period you pay the person a certain commission I mean whatever arrangement are you open to such collaborations >> in fact this collaboration or this arrangement you are talking about is known as uh alliance >> you know alliance is where the vendor or the supplier brings the machine to you and say take it operate it every month I'll pay you a certain percentage that you'll be responsible for maintenance and all those That is alliance. We don't do alliance but I know my sister company SEC do alliance.
>> We we are open to a le arrangement.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. or a credit arrangement >> where you give us you know these facilities these equipments and as we operate them we'll be paying them over time >> right >> till we finish paying >> and currently we are in so much again with so many suppliers who are going to give us uh buses on credit indeed these buses that are given even though it's government coming from government is on credit we have to work and pay it back >> you see over the years The buses that were even given to uh MMT was not just free like that.
The Hunga buses for instance still sits in our books as buses that the company did not pay because you can't give you a bus and say just go and be working and be chopping the money no or be paying.
You must there should be accountability.
>> True.
>> So that it can easily be replaced because it has not been done so well or efficiently over the years. That's why Metro H fleet could go so down and yet the company itself cannot reunite unless we rely on government again.
>> This is going to be a turn of the past.
>> Right. Maybe my last question uh for you. What what what number of fleet should we expect by the end of this year?
>> In fact our target is that by the end of this year we should have about thousand fleet of buses.
>> Thousand?
>> Yes.
>> And currently around 200 plus >> you see. No. Okay. Currently this particular arrangement will give us 300.
>> Okay.
>> We are having engagement with other prospective you know suppliers.
>> But you see well that is our wish and that is what we are seeing >> right >> but anything could happen if not last December we're supposed to get our first 150 fleet >> 50. Yes.
>> But something happened which was not from our fault and even from not the fault of the the supplier.
>> It it could not it could not be done. So if I meet you in December this year, your KPI I should measure you with is a,000.
>> That's what we are thinking.
>> And I've given you deceptions about it >> that it's not just you know how do I even tell itself cut and blank that we will get all the thousand. I'm only saying that that is our projection.
Okay. And from our engagement with our you know collab what the partners and the suppliers >> we feel that if we should it will it will go accurately. It means that we'll be able to get thousand buses >> right. Any last words?
>> Yeah my last word to Ghanaians is that Ghanaians should be patient with Metroas. Metroass is actually bouncing back. We're going to give them available and affordable transport services across the country and we ensure that they are given the durest you know uh uh customer service and comfort as they patronize our services. Right. Thank you very much uh viewers and listeners. So uh that was our engagement with the managing director for Metro Mass Transit Mr. Khal Caesar or Esqua uh Khal Caesar. Thank you very much. We will take a quick break. When we come back, we would uh discuss uh two other topics. The the licens for uh jun uh savings and loans and also the attack or the seeming attack on free speech. Right back after this break.
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>> Someone was king but the thing was like >> when am I going to be your father?
>> Don't ruin my marriage. You can't ruin it.
>> And what is she doing in her matrimonial home?
>> She's a poor girl I try to love. She's just working.
>> Oh my goodness. THERE A LOT OF POOR GIRLS ON THE STREET. Are you going to be able to to to consider all of them in your house?
>> You want to go back to that idiot?
>> What haven't I done before?
>> What you have done?
>> We are still married. We are still staying.
>> I said YOU HAVE DONE IT.
>> Show her the dos and don'ts in this house.
>> Can I add science?
>> Devil under my pillow. Yeah.
Morning time is ready. Mama cook it nice and steady. Call your people. Call your crew. Spaghett.
>> This advert is FDA approved.
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>> Some of them are very active and then people say this child is a very bad child. He's so naughty.
But they probably have a problem.
>> I don't think a man can prove his fertility. He's a woman who usually can't prove the fertility by carrying >> pregnant unless there's a DNA.
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And is his lordship buff's leadership.
You are guilty before you are pronounced guilty. You are guilty before full trial. So my lord baffled My lord judge SUPREME COURT JUDGES COURT OF APPEAL JUDGES JUDGES. YES.
They went through similar ordeal. It never broke them.
>> Yes.
At every turn, at every turn, the scales have tilted not towards the protection of liberty, but toward its cailment. A court that allows itself to become a tool for silencing political opponent has ceased to be a guardian of liberty.
It has become a participant in its destruction.
A judge who surrenders to fear and becomes a timorous soul too intimidated to defend the constitution and the right it protects is no longer a judge. He has become an instrument of the powerful.
Well, welcome back to the the studios and uh thank you for staying with us. Uh current agenda as always sponsored by Bank of Africa and NPA Bank of Africa says it's the African bank with global reach. Uh the bank that cares about you.
So um it's announcing if you have any updates to make if your address has changed if personal details have changed walk to any of its branches or go online onto its website or call it call center and update your records. Once your information is updated they will be able to find tailormade products that meets your need and uh bring it to your doorstep. The NP also says that if you have been served um poor quality food or the quantity is not as expected or if your you you believe that you you did not uh receive good customer service at any station don't argue with them don't fight with them just walk to any NPA uh office in any office regions or if you're in Ara to it office uh along the N1 highway way atu make a complaint. You have 48 hours to make that complaint. In studio with me this morning to discuss the issues uh for the next uh 2 hours I believe. Uh I have with me Benjamin Alpha Edu, lawyer Benjamin Alpha Edu. He's a member of the NDC communications team. Uh which one do you like? Ben or Alpha?
>> Alpha.
>> Okay. If I keep alpha saying alpha, I expect an omega, right? Alpha, good morning.
>> Yes, good morning.
>> And welcome, welcome to the set. This is your first on the set, right?
>> This this is the first time my first time on this set.
>> Okay. So, we are hoping to be first and many more.
>> Yes.
>> So, so welcome.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Uh next next to him is lawyer.
He's a legal practitioner, private legal practitioner and also the executive director for Lands and Minds Watch Ghana.
How are you doing?
>> I'm doing well.
>> Will you sing the song that we singing backstage again?
>> Alpha could also be the leader of the pack.
>> Ah, okay. Alpha male. So that's why you have alpha male. Right. Right. Right.
Right. That's great.
>> Okay. And then to my extreme left also I have lawyer Ishach Ibrahim. He's a member of the MPP communication team.
>> Isach. Good morning.
>> Good morning to you.
>> I hope you're good.
>> Yes, I'm doing quite well. And then my employers are UPSA as well.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. Sorry to not mention he's also a lecturer the UPSA joining >> him. That's great. That's great because we are told that >> now that the president has fulfilled the campaign promise >> of expanding access to legal education.
It is imperative that now some of us also >> support them >> and and I think it's actually quite a loudable idea.
>> Absolutely. uh because uh for me I believe being a lecturer is a huge sacrifice >> and we've always urged lawyers to come and join and and I think sometimes if you look at the number of students we are teaching I think we need more hands.
>> Okay.
>> Yes.
>> Right. Thank you.
>> And then talking of alpha the famous alpha I remember is Alpha Kunar of >> I my famous alpha is Alpha Blond I mean former president of Mallay.
>> Right. Right. Okay. So uh gentlemen we we'll go straight into our discussions.
We will start with the the free speech and uh dab DC. I mean I don't know what subject or what headline to give to but the issue on free speech and I'll start with Alpha. AB when you were in opposition when you were campaigning your the your your flag bearer then nonp president wrote open letters to the then president informing him or addressing him that they are using uh the law to as a weapon and criminalizing free speech.
Two days after the president was was uh sworn in, he went and during one of his press engagements, he indicated his willingness to uh even repeal some laws.
Now from nowhere it appears that what you were crying against now you are actually in favor of it and you even doing it more than in fact the the um we hear that the number you have done in this short 16 months is is twice the number the MP did in eight eight eight years in in in simple term did you go or did we come?
>> Um thank you Kjo. Um first of all the position of the president in opposition and in power hasn't changed.
This president, President Mama has been an avanguard, somebody at the forefront of the protection of freedoms of people, especially the right to free speech. And those criticisms leveled against the former government are as valid as they are today. And if you have checked the commentary on this, especially from government communicators, you hardly find government communicators justifying some of these arrests as uh uh something that is turnable. You hardly find that. What the discussion has always been is to question the duplicity, all right, in the moral authority that the MPP especially has.
in accusing this government of the abuse of the freedoms of you know free speech and all of that. That is essentially what I because I think that many people believe that those who want to tout and enjoy the the freedom of speech which is part of our democratic fiber must themselves be also ready to account for their stewardship when they were given uh the reigns of this country to manage and protect freedoms of people.
I do not think as a very personal position that we should engage in this revisionist exercise where when these incidents are cited then we go back and mention the several incidents that happened under the MPP. Indeed, if we are to go by that exercise it will become clear that under the MP there was a wanting abuse of free speech >> in proportions that is in excess more than what is happening under this administration. But I don't think that we should we should go there. It should not be a comparison of who did more than what. And that's why I find the statement put out by the media foundation for West Africa not in proper context or misleading. As far as this government contradict what you are saying >> this government overall handling of free speech, freedom of speech is concerned.
Look, the observable data, right, empirical data on the right of freedom of expression of free speech is what the reporters without borders do annually.
>> Reporters without borders is a global institution that ranks countries based on press freedom index.
>> Right >> now, they normally put five main factors in the basket. the legal regime, political regime, h security, legislative, social cultural factors that pertains within a country and how that is supporting the expression of free speech. Those factors are looked at and empirical data is assessed. A qualitative pro process is undertaken.
Not just you know isolated event of listing how many numbers that does not give a true picture, right?
Now the reporters without borders annually issue their report which has become the basis for measuring a metric for measuring how a country is performing in terms of free speech. All right at the very recent um publication or the results or the report that they issued Ghana appreciated significantly all right in you know they collect the data over the year and they release it the following year. So for example in 2025 we were 52nd but that data comes from 2024 >> right >> in 2026 we have appreciated out of 108 countries the data suggests that Ghana has moved from 52nd to 39th >> the meaning of that is that not the isolated events but if you pick the general political legal legislative security architecture that enables free speech.
This government is handling it well.
>> And you only need to disagregate the factors that they was used to see that the part that we have appreciated the most is in terms of the security right that when it comes to the security architecture, the security governance in terms of free speech, Ghana has appreciated and we have done well. So that is the observable data.
The data means that if you put everything together, this government is doing what is necessary, what is right to protect freedom of speech. And indeed freedom of speech or freedom of expression as we know it and at school 21 does not one mean that those that kind of freedom must be exercised limited um unlimited or without you know any limitations or any qualification. What has normally been the case is that we usually find some overzealous security agencies or policemen and all of that using these limitations codified in law as a basis for arrest and for those ones we have I think the consensus that we have all had in this discussion is that they must be reigned in and normally the butt of that uh kind of arrest have been section 207 section 208 which is offensive conducive to the breach of peace. So you say something they say oh this is an a conduct offensive to the breach of peace or 28 208 you say something and this is they say this is false publication which is criminal which are still sitting on our statute books that the police have always used.
All right, those are the hot spot or like the main issue that we need to discuss and find a way around that because I believe that those two provisions from a legal standpoint they are so vague and they are not supported by any proper analysis of what a criminal provision should be. Okay. So first of all we need to put on record that when it comes to the provision of an environment for the expression of free speech the observable data is in favor of this government >> right >> that does not discount these incidents which you know we have people have had cause to condemn. All right. Secondly, freedom of expression also has to do with the ability to demonstrate, >> the ability to exercise your thoughts, all right, and to protest. And in that respect, this government has has done well, has provided an enabling environment. You remember a few years ago, you couldn't even demonstrate at the seat of government. Now, people go there and and demonstrate, right? and is a deliberate attempt to allow that that kind of expression. Now it is a policy of the attorney general that in respect of these offenses unless there is some overriding concern attorney general will not oppose bill. Indeed, in respect of that matter, which I think is the basis for the recent basis for this discussion when the police put him before the circuit court and and that background is very important, right? Because that background is also legal that we need people to understand. Our position or our duty as people that comment on public matters is not only to amplify our partisan position but also educate the public. Abra was put before a judge for an offense and was granted bail.
Right? Then another charge was brought a similar offense before that judge. Okay?
>> Then the judge looked at it and said that uh you were brought here for a similar offense granted bill then you are going to commit the same offense. If I leave you to go you are not you are likely to continue committing that offense. And under section 965 of the criminal and other offenses procedure which regulates or governs criminal procedure, seniors will agree with me that a ground for disallowing exercising discretion for the refusal of bill is whether the accused is likely to commit the same offense when given bail.
So that is the discretion that the judge and bill is discretionary. Discretion means that it is within the perview of the judge to look at the circumstances and the factors to either allow that or disallow that. So that's what the judge did, right? and they had to now and and that's what resulted in all of the commentary from the minority leader which some have condemned you know and certain things because the minority leader has already given us a lectures on what to do if you are not happy with what a judge has done >> in July 2024 in parliament he he told us openly that if a judge makes a ruling s discretion and you are not happy you have procedures to try and reverse or quash that ruling. But after giving us that lecture in 2026, he openly attacked a sitting judge just because the judge exercised discretion based on the factors I have given you.
Right? He openly attacked the judge.
Then subsequently they decided to do what is right by applying to the high court to for bail making a repeat application at the high court for bail which is allowed under law. Now at the high court the deputy attorney general himself was in court. I was in court that day. He did not oppose it because as part of you know the legal regime for allowing people to express their freedom and and not to stifle all of that. The attorney general does not think that for such offenses we should be opposed bill.
And indeed I know that the attorney general has every commitment to rein in excesses of security agencies or policemen and all of that who intend to abuse section 207208 and put such frivolous charges before judges. Okay. And to be fair if you look at that charge sheet that was put before the judge is purely a matter of contempt, >> right? It's a matter of contempt. The only difficulty here which even the law gives a procedure for remedy is that lower court cannot hold people for contempt xy ka which is contempt committed outside the courtroom. They must refer to a superior court that has power under article 126 >> to do that. Okay.
>> And that's what I believe that the judge should have done. Right.
>> But if that wasn't that wasn't done. A a bill was disallowed. A repeat application was made. Government trade attorney general did not oppose it and the bill has subsequently been granted.
In the general or larger scheme of things like I have repeated, government does not think that free speech is something that should be bas criminalized or like people should not be reigned in for expressing their their their thoughts. In that same manner, government also thinks that it is important that the limitations and qualifications placed on all rights, not only free speech must be respected.
>> If someone says that he will he is making attempts to kill the president, we we should have a national conversation if that is acceptable within the bounds of >> We'll come we'll come to that bit.
>> Let me let me just land. Right. If someone says that I have guns or I've seen guns being packaged for transportation to a certain destination, should the security agencies not take an interest? And how do you investigate these matters? I've heard people say that well the we should assess whether that person can carry out those threats before. How do you assess if that person is not invited for interrogation or arrested? How do you assess? the security agency just sit in the home look at the nature of that person and say this is not a security threat. So it is important that those qualifications are adhered to. It's important that while we all condemn um you know overzealous attempt to use the criminal justice system >> to sort of in a high-handed way punish people for the expression of free thought. We must also you know admonish people to be mindful of the limitations unless people understand that freedom of expression also comes with a responsibility.
>> Thank you. Um, >> yes.
>> Your your party or Yes. Your party when you were in government.
>> Yes.
>> Did similar acts.
>> Okay.
>> There are countless number we can and and Alpha mentioned them. Probably when we are comparing in his estimation.
>> I say we shouldn't mention them.
>> Yes.
>> At the same time >> according to him probably when you compare yours might peel.
>> Yes.
>> Or theirs might peel.
>> Yes.
So why why is the opposition new patriotic party now all up in arms making it crying as if this is something new to you when in actual sense you used similar >> okay >> uh means to silent uh critics.
>> Thank you very much. Your operation seem to have put chains around me asking me to be confined uh within this angle but allow me the flexibility to come off a bit and especially to engage in most of the thing uh Alfred has said. Um alpha have said yes um he has said a number of things which I believe um as my learning friend I probably said they untrue. I would have gone even further if uh the opportunity had allowed me. He said no government communicator have defended some of the actions that the security services have taken or even the judge but that is not true. Um during the week I have shared platform with some of them who seriously defended them and said this some of this was happened in the past. among them is Julius uh Anthony Julius Anthonywami Anthony who is one of the spokesperson I think from the minister of information who interior okay so who said even abona body language and and the fact that the judge said if he had been allowed that he would have commit similar offense even the body language was enough u or he said something to that effect and would I I challenge you Um so that is not true. Government of government government official and communicators have uh have defended it and you also said we should not visit the past. You don't agree with the idea of always looking at the past but you quickly look at the past. So I'm not very sure that why you immediately Yeah. You said it happened during PPP time and therefore so I don't agree with most of the thing that you said and you also pointed out I mean during your opening you pointed out the letter that was written by the then uh um opposition leader or flag of the NDC to the president and some of the allegations he lived there. I mean the opening just pointed to a a hypocrite president the hypocrisy is such that you say something else and you are practicing something completely different but what surprises me more is we those of us in the MPP yeah I'm very surprised that we are surprised about the actions of the NDCs why am I saying this when they were in opposition the then opposition leader President Muhammad reminded We in M PP that we should remember their revolutionary past and that if it comes to violent they can visit her with huge violence. So if somebody is uh reminding us of their terrible past will not start here. If you give him power why would you be surprised that he's right to stifle free speech. I'm also surprised that those of us in M PP some of us are surprised because this was a party that used the criminal library law to infringe on free speech by studying senior journalists such as Kosip Pratt um um what they >> and others to prison. So if they are given that power they acting this way and especially as I said they remember the past with no idea and to remind us I mean how can we be surprised they will do exactly that so I don't think so and again to to tackle your question head on for me I can see a fallacy in your question a fallacy in such that you are more or less saying we have to be consistently wrong to be right If certain things have happened in the past and if those things are repeated now and I don't even believe what you said happened in the past is empty because this a two year one and a half month one one year four or five months government and the report is that what they have done in this one and a half year let's just give them one and a half year for just relax you you'll get your opportunity I can see you are sitting on the hot >> I know I understand it's very uncomfort comfortable.
>> There's no hospital.
>> Yes. So just relax. So there's nothing.
>> So for for me one and a half month and they already reporting that is worse than I'm not sure whether eight years or the last four years of PP government.
>> The the media foundation for West Africa says that >> yes the there as at end of March the count had gotten to 16 arrests.
>> Yes. Yes. And he's comparing it to uh which is more than what was done within the 8 years. This is how he puts it.
>> These are not comparable. Somebody who is already one year, one and a half year, let's just give them one and a half years so far. Is where's the 8 years? Why are we comparing them? And as I said, it is a fallacy to compare them.
A fallacy of we have to be consistently wrong to be right. And moreover, this is a political party that has campaigned on research that the old way of doing thing were not good enough. And you have a social contract with the good people of Ghana that you were researching that all bad practices in the past will stop with you. And then when you come, you ask that to use the past as a standard to measure your behavior. when you told the good people of Ghana that the past has not been good. In other words, you scam the people into coming to power. In fact, this is a scam government, not just when it come to free speech, every area of governor, you have scammed the good people of Ghana. You promised three shift, you are now building nightmares and then when they pressure you on the 24 hours economy, you are saying something else all together such as Ajenta Dvier is open 24 hours when you should have been providing the tree ship. you promise the good people of Ghana. So for me you are you scammed them and free speech further further that particular belief and in fact I said in this platform some last year that when it comes to this NDC government they are a threat to our democracy and it start with the removal of the chief justice. So free speech is one of the areas that you highlight that they are indeed a threat to our democracy. Why do we insist free speech is very important in a democracy? I think if you look at the literature as a lecturer and somebody who is interested in this area of the law, John Su provided one of the cogent reason why in a democracy we must protect free speech.
The three reasons he advanced is argument from the truth, argument from self fulfillment and argument from the democracy. In terms of argument from the truth, nobody had a monopoly over the truth. In fact, if we are not careful, people will send false ideas that does not aid with human development. And in the past he has given a good example like Galileo who used to have an opinion that and he was one of the few people who held the opinion that the world was physical when the popular opinion at that time that was that the world was flat and that it was like a cliff. If you keep walking you'll fall off. In fact, he was executed for this. But his theory that the world was spiritical now help her to have something like a satellite. AND THEN SO argument from the truth there's there's more evidence we can provide that in terms of the truth.
No matter how unpopular an idea is, government should not censor it. Let's hear it. If it is false, we challenge it and if necessary, the other person will revise the ideas. have argument for self fulfillment. human beings is we are given that unique gift artistic speech and other things people just need it to fulfill themsel the fin most important one the NDC doesn't want is argument from the democracy as a writer said democracy we're in a marketplace of ideas so allow people to freely speak especially when they speak does not really cause immediate harm or sometime no harm at all because if you don't allow allow the opposition the opportunity to speak. The least thing you go and arrest everybody as you said one and a half year is worse than 8 years that you are claiming. How can you justify some of this arrest?
Like somebody have a billboard apparently it is somebody else billboard they took and put dum is back and now BNI or they say national security arrested that person. Alpha, how can you defend this kind of speech and this kind of arrest? This is a political speech.
What harm has it caused? The literature said we should only we should intervene when there's harm caused and one of the harm would be hate speech or dangerous speech or or speeches that goes outside it. Do so is back and then put your mama photo there. What harm does it cause? Some of your communicators have defended that arrest saying that the president is a president. How can somebody talk about that about him? Others even added that aba or somebody added that he impregnated the daughter of the sister.
This the the conusion as writer said have provided ways we address these things. So for me if you come to the limitation and whether we should implement certain limitation the constitution have already provided for them for me to intervene in terms of behavior it should ask ourself the speaker the way they acted has it rise to the level of criminality we that is that should be the test and for me what the the the lady said about uh uh the billboard it doesn't rise to the level of criminality I brought issue has not rise to the level of criminality. So if he use a criminal law in dealing with him that is wrong. It is for this reason that the minority leader said he has lost respect for the charge.
>> Okay.
>> As you rightly said, you yourself have seen that what you have said tell us that the judge has abandoned the law and take into consideration in relevant matters. So for example, if he has already spoken if in terms of free speech, >> so you should be ending on this one right after this.
>> Okay. Even just as free speech, he says something outside and says something again he has been brought. We have not yet made determination as to whether what he said is criminal or not. And the judge has already concluded that if I send you out, you're going to say something similar to that or you commit similar offenses. Does that stop him from saying exactly that in cas? No, it doesn't. Because he still have his mouth intact. He can still say that in custody. So for me the judge was considering irrelevant materials and that is a mark of intolerant in your government >> and it exposes you as hypocrite things that you complain in opposition you cannot even stand up to implement them when you are in power.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Um it sounds nice calling you.
>> Now two things for me then maybe you would go into what you say. Two things for me. Maybe in your in your uh your delivery, >> right, >> you try and explain to us >> what uh session to I mean not to interpret it but when we say it criminalizes publication of of of statements or rumors or reports likely to cause fear and alarm.
>> Mhm.
>> Um what what really is the the spirit uh behind this? And again are we with all this we are doing are we not in a way cleaning the line between the judiciary and the executive with this discussions of going as if now we are putting judiciary and executive together in one bucket.
Well, Cojo the the beauty about democracy is that we get an opportunity as people to vent our spleen and to comment on matters of national importance.
But the danger inherent in that beauty is the kinds of convenient adversarial narrations that we put forward particularly because of the kind of political architecture that we have experienced from 1992 till today. And so I am not surprised at all that in the submissions of both Alpha and Ishach, we are doing some unh wholly comparative analysis.
Albeit the caution was given to us that we were not going to embark on the journey of uh revisionism.
But you could tell that we needed to pull parity in order to substantiate our argument.
Let me make this point clear, reiterate and regurgitate that in any constitutional democracy, one of the fundamental principles or rules governing that is the principle of sovereignty.
Principle of sovereignty.
Now it is strike that the principle of sovereignty resides with the people and here when I say the people I'm talking about the people of the republic of Ghana.
Now the people of the republic of Ghana through elections delegate some small authority to the elected executives to use it for and on behalf of the generality of the good people of Ghana.
And then the generality of the good people of Ghana retain the largest or the major part of that authority or that sovereignty in order that we can checkmate and we can uh ensure that the small power that we have delegated to the executives they do not use it arbitrarily capriciously or unreasonably. So we always ensure that there's better accountability.
Now how do you ensure better accountability in a democratic dispensation?
Unfortunately for Ghana, we have not been alive to any situation where any president has resigned or any executive member has resigned except maybe in the case of the former power minister.
>> Yes. in the event that they have been unable to exercise their functions to the satisfaction of the good people of this country. So generally we have not really you know there's just one minor exception. All right.
>> I think the the the energy minister power minister >> but also I think in the NDC power okay so two cases. So yes, so on this call I'll give it to both uh but generally it is an impossibility that you would see a minister resign because he's unable to perform his function or even the president. I mean we have impeachment proceedings or pro proceeds in sitting in our law books. Um but I'm not sure that any president will be impeached in this country because of the kind of political system that we have too. So the only way that citizens can checkmate or can ensure that leaders are performing is through the expression of their opinions, the expression of their thoughts and the ability to demonstrate their displeasure without let or hindrance and that is what we define as the freedom of expression.
Now the freedom of expression as we know it and uh by reason of the it importance it is instructive that I give a historical narration.
There was a case which happened after the world first world war which is the case of shank versus the United States of America that gave birth to the first test of freedom of expression. That first test meant that or indicated that freedom of speech will be curtailed when it is clear that there's some imminent danger by reason of your atrances.
Now according to researchers, according to uh legal minds and judges and lawyers alike around that time, that was the only way they could ensure that people communicating within the framework of what the law wanted or within the remmit of the law. But they did that because at the time the world was now restarted. So they needed to ensure the cailment of the expression of opinions so that we would have one unified front and then rebuild the world. So the shank United States case is a very instructive case and that's the first test. So that was the test that was being used to measure whether people were expressing themselves within the confines of law.
Fast forward they noticed that that was actually very was an inhibition on the rights and liberties of people. So in the case of Brandenburgg versus Ohio the court came out with a second test and then made nonsense of the first test that was propounded in the first case that I mentioned. So in 1969 the matter went to court and the court came out with a second test which is the imminent threat test imminent threat and I think mentioned that briefly >> now so currently the test that we use to measure whether somebody has expressed himself outside the remmit of law is not just by using your own domestic laws but also juaposing that with the internationally acceptable test v the human rights law and I think that all of must know that the freedom of expression also finds expression within the confines of international law. All right.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> So that is what that is about. Now in Ghana, in Ghana we have sought to protect the sovereignty or if you like the right to freedom of expression in our constitution and our constitution is an embodiment of the soul of the people of this country. So that's so if you read article 211 a of the constitution and with your leave I would read article 211 says all persons shall have the right to a freedom of speech and expression freedom of speech and expression which shall include freedom of the press and other media. freedom of the press and other media. Sha the operative word is sha and that that freedom of expression is within the general fundamental freedoms given to the good people of this country. Now let's define what freedom of expression is.
It is the fundamental human right fundamental. When we say something is fundamental, it's derivative >> that allows individuals to articulate opinions, ideas and beliefs without fear of government, censorship, retaliation or legal sanction.
It covers all forms of expression.
>> Start again. Start again. So I repeat the fundamental human right >> that allows individuals to articulate opinions, >> ideas and beliefs without fear of government censorship, retaliation or legal sanction.
>> Now when you read >> where you quoting from?
>> Oh this is um by uh Monour why you Google you it will come just anybody can Google it will come up. But even beyond this, there are also other literature which have been put forward by people which seeks to define the parameters within which freedom of expressions must operate. In fact, other literature say that people must say uncomfortable things, things that they feel, what they feel, how they feel.
They must say things which may be displeasing to the ears of government but they should not be prevented or cailed from expressing those opinions.
>> So it is very instructive that we lay this foundation >> right >> now that I've I've laid down the foundation let's do a juosition between what the law says and between what we are currently seeing now. M >> now if you look at the fundamental freedom of expression and how we are going about it today I think that is quite unfortunate. I think that we are just taking advantage of a slight loophole that there exists in the constitution because the constitution itself does not define what fundamental what the fundamental right to free speech is. It doesn't necessarily define what it is. Now within I mean in 2001 because we wanted to ensure that we did not criminalize free speech we decided to do away with the criminal liability law >> that is very instructive I think that is the basic basis of all of these things that we're talking about that we wanted people to freely express themselves we wanted people not to be punished because they made political statements which were not in the interest of government.
So the criminal liel law was also what done away with. Right now it appears to me that the post colonial law restricting freedom of expression has surreptitiously found its way into our criminal books and what has been eloquently put forward by Alpha which is sections 207 and 208 of act 30. Okay.
207 fundamentally deals with what you spoke about and what does it say again?
Read it for me.
>> So um >> so okay so this is 208 actually it says that >> um criminalize the publication of statements rumors or report likely to cause fear and alarm to the public or disturb the public peace.
>> So there are two components. The first component is what likely to do what?
likely to to cause fear and alarm to the public.
>> Fear alarm. Uh-huh. And the second component is >> to disturb the public peace.
>> To disturb the public peace. Read. Look for 207 for me.
>> Okay. Give me a minute.
>> Look for 207 for me.
>> Look for 207 for me because I want to do a proper just position and see and tell you and conclude immediately that what we are seeing today is actually a sorry spectacle.
Now let me even start the narration or the argument from the perspective of 28 that you just read.
208 simply says that we are going to cail that fundamental right to free speech if it is evident and in I like what we call I like some descriptions in said if it is materially significant that it is likely to cause fear or alarm. That's the first component. And the second component being to disturb the public peace.
So then let's now marry that with the statements which were made by Abbron.
The statements which were made by Abbron. Is it that it is likely to cause fear and panic because also don't forget that we are dealing with the test as well. The imminent threat test >> imminent threat >> in the case of Brandesburg.
Then the second one is this was is was the state the statement that was made was it likely to disturb the public peace.
So if you if you do the analysis you can draw your own conclusion and to say that those statements even though unpalatable even though unbecoming even though unworthy of a political activist those statements unfortunately did not or wasn't made you know to to create some fear or alarm or to disturb the public peace. So the first those two uh components in section 208 with the grace of respect the threshold has not been met right >> the threshold has not been met.
Now of course freedom of expression as has been admitted and I'm sure Bra will also allude to the position that it is not absolute but the lack of absoluteness of that does not mean that we should cail the right of people in expressing themselves. There are remedies available to individuals who think that their reputations have been harmed as a result of statements which have been made by political actors and or players. So in the case of the judge with the greatest of respect it is not a statement that was made to cause a panic because see if you read other literature it tells you that he asked the question or it begs the question did did a certain did did the the the person um who the statement was directed to suffer any harm after the statement was made. Was there any mob attack on the person? Was there any physical attack on the person?
>> All right. So if that happens then it means that that statement you have breached or you have violated article 21 but all the things that we are talking about points to the fact that that did not happen at best it will be a matter of your free speech m the a person's right to sue because you have made disparaging remarks about them. So I would have thought that instead of criminalizing the statement which was made that you you use the civil approach which is to go to court as a judge because it's as of right to say that somebody has made you know made disparaging statements about my person >> and in the eyes of the right thinking members of society I have I have been lowered >> and therefore I am suing this person for 5 million Ghana cities that could have really worked for me Right.
>> And in concluding KJO, I want to appeal to both the NDC and the MPP that look the beauty about democracy, the beauty about democracy is descent.
The beauty about democracy, >> in fact, descent is what made democracy democracy.
>> Yes.
>> Descent. Because all of us cannot belong to one political ideology.
All of us cannot subscribe to the policy prescriptions of government.
And so if we at one point identify that the policy that you are implementing is at variance with what the generality of the good people of this country want, we should allow them vent their spleen. We should allow them demonstrate. Which is why I have consistently without fail advanced arguments which is in direct opposition to what the current government you know communicators have been saying >> and I think that we should not get to the point where we nurture some beast which will invariably come and affect all of us finally and I'm sorry I'm doing this finally >> the issue that was brought forward or to the foreground in relation to bail application and my colleague mentioned that you know slightly mentioned that you know look I am opposed to the way we are we are abusing discretion in this country it's an abuse the discretion that we are using is an abuse the constitution is clear article 19 is clear as daylight the way we are going about things it is as though we are presuming assuming that people are guilty until proven otherwise by a competent court of jurisdiction that because they are political actors and players who do not belong to a political party by all means once they are arrested we must find them guilty and the state is complicit. The state is complicit. Now bail is as of right. If you read Martin Pebbu number one and number two bail is as of right. All offenses are available even murder all offenses. However, it is subject to section 29 uh I believe 29 uh two section what um 965 965 of of of act 30 and when you read 965 it gives you the conditions under which the court may grant you. So it said it's discretionary. However, that discretion must find expression in what article 296 of the constitution says >> that it must not be arbitrary. It must not be capricious. When you are exercising discretion, because you are the one exercising that discretion, you must do so reasonably. Now, the definition of discretion is not in the constitution. The definition of arbitrary is not in the constitution.
the definition of reasonleness albe it we we say that it is the reasonable man you know the the lay person on the street that in itself is not properly defined so I'm simply saying that we must be measured >> we must be extremely measured in how we are using the law to create this some semblance of punishment >> and the constitution finally finally constitution says that bail must not be used as a punishment Yeah.
>> Thank you.
>> So please in respect of these matters I beg to really widely uh differ from popular opinion. I am not a sequant what is wrong is wrong. What is right must be supported.
>> Thank you.
>> On this occasion the way the current administration well I won't say the current administration generally but the way some political actors in place are conducting themselves I am afraid for what may happen tomorrow.
>> Thank you. So that that has been um a whole 25 minutes exposition.
>> No lecture.
>> Okay. A whole I don't know whether the the authorities in UPS 5 minutes >> UPSA if you know the amount of notes Alpha has made because I I was doing my interviews are paying attention.
So uh we we >> we have in studio uh he's joined as a lawyer Austin Kabraco Powers uh within the course of the week I think he had a a um of summons to the Supreme Court uh lawyer. Is that correct?
>> That's right.
>> That's right. Right. Uh yes. So basically to this is a rate. Yes. So you you are nullifying you are nullifying the section 208 of the act of act 29 and 76 of act 775 and you want the supreme court to interpret it properly for us.
So I mean in the course of it I'm sure you bring it up but one key thingwami whenwami was was was speaking or lecturing he said which drew my attention and even is even making me scared to speak is if I am saying something at this point that I truly believe to be true and so I'm saying it as a journalist but later found not to be true. What it means in here is that I can be held from uh 207 and 208 to be publishing false news and I can go through what I'm going through. I think it's one of the the the things that you stated in your in your race. Anyway, that's your good morning.
>> Yes.
We need to understand that um free speech is not a gift from the government to the people of Ghana.
It is a right that citizens retain against government and in in Ghana in this year 2026 the distinction must be made clearly.
But Ko before I dabble in the the provisions that you touch on it is important to set the record straight.
The MPP is accusing the government of or the NP is saying is claiming that Ghana's democracy or democratic credentials are under threat by reason of what is happening that is the arrest and the denial of bill to abst standards. When we reduce conversations into political partisanship, there won't be any winners.
I've repeatedly maintained that when conversations that should have taken a national twist takes a political partisanship, there will be no winners.
Everybody will be losers. And that is what we need to the understanding we need to get.
And let me state in clear terms that I detest the commentaries made by the minority leader Aen marking against the executive court judge.
This is disappointing, reprehensible and unpalatable. Something that we should know entertain. He's a senior lawyer. He should he should know. Now we must understand when a judge if a judge has the right to make a good decision that judge has the right to make a bad decision and when a judge makes a bad decision what do you do but you be in the media and we criticize him and say you you criticize you continue to criticize him is that what >> as rightly said by Alfa himself in 24 >> told us how to go about when the judge makes a bad decision >> exactly >> in fact in fact the thing is that what I'm saying is that no judge is above above reproach and no judge is above criticism but you must be measured. I have said the executive has been bastardized the the legislature has been bastardized. Do you want to add the judiciary to the fold the judiciary is a bastion of Ghana democracy if you reduce the judiciary into robo imagine what will happen. I'm saying that what the minority leader did which has found support in their grassroot is disappointing and he should know the best.
He could have criticized the judge.
Fine.
But to call him out in the manner that he did is a is a new law and he should you see they must understand that what you allow petty partisan politics to reduce you into.
It is in front of you. It will always meet you.
In this country we feel because of political partitionship we can say whatever we want without measure.
And we believe that because he's a minority leader and he's a leader of the minority in in parliament, he could say whatever he wants.
That is disappointing and we must not we must not encourage such attitude.
We must not encourage that attitude. As a senior lawyer, he should have respected the judge.
And you see what what we are glossing over is that bail is discretionary.
A judge can deny you bill. The reasons the judge bears to deny you bill, is it grounded to you? Is not grounded by who has to determine that the a higher court. It is for the determination of a higher court to decide or not whether or not that judge by denying bill use it as a punitive measure. You can pass your fair comment but that should not be a a matter for you to criticize a judge in a manner to say that he is doubling into politics.
Please that kind of attitude should be discouraged in this country. It is on becoming why do we allow politicians to reduce our judges into nothingness.
I'm saying that what Alexander Aeno market did is disappointing and a new law >> and he must be ashamed of what he did.
A jent has denied a DCB bill. Why is it new?
Is it is it is it the latest in this country? Why? We call for bills and we've been denied. Is it the latest? But when that happens, what do you do? You go, you climb higher. That is why we have structured courts. We don't have only one court in this country. We have structured court. So when one court denies you, there's a higher court. Was his was his frustration only about the denial or the fact that he thinks there's a particular circuit court judge who any uh descent uh or any dissenting voice goes there he has a particular way of ruling was that not the bane of his argument >> the thing is that whatever be his understanding or the reason the way he approach it is not was not the was not the best >> why if the if that judge has has maybe has a persistent manner of rendering decisions. That is his understanding of the law. Do you fought him?
Ah that is why we have high court >> do that's why we have high court if that judge that's why I've maintained and it is clear when a judge even the supreme court has made it clear that when a judge has right has a right to make good decision that judge has the same right to make a bad decision.
So when a judge makes a decision you feel it is bad what do you do you climb higher then let me dive into this conversation currently as we as we we sit here a session or our sessions 207 and 208 not part of our laws.
>> Yeah. Is it because we have issues with those provisions, the police must not act on them or is it because we have we have problems with those provisions. The government must suspend the operation of those sessions. Is that is that our understanding?
You really articulated I have filed a rit at the Supreme Court. have issues with those provisions including section 77 of act 775.
Does it mean section 207 208 nobody can be arrested and prosecuted under those provisions?
Let us be careful of the commentaries we make and you see as to whether or not the decision of the police to arrest Abuna DC based on the allegations that the allegations leveled against him amount to reasonable reasonableness is for the court to determine when he said there's a test does the test control the police are the police supposed to go by the test the test does not regulate the police it regulates the court I said the police must use the test the so-called reasonable test in deciding what whether or not to arrest somebody for or under section 207 208. It is for the court to determine whether or not the basic facts grounding the arrest and prosecution are reasonable.
Do you double in and bring in the police and bring in the government? Is this the first time that someone has been arrested and is being prosecuted under sessions 207 and 208?
The hypocrisy in this country is becoming too much.
The hypocrisy we speak as if this this is the first is the first in time the first in the first in this country since 1992.
What kind of conversation is that?
As we speak, these provisions they constitute or they form part of our penal code.
The criminal offenses act 1960 act 29.
These two provisions sessions 207 20 form part of our penal code. M the government suspend it. If the government suspend it, some of us will challenge it because it is in the law. It is rather for the government to take steps to repeal those provisions. But if those steps are not concretized, does it mean those provisions nobody can arrest anybody under that? And we must understand article 211A giving freedom of speech is not absolute and across the aisle nobody can doubt that but do those provisions meet a test that is for the determination of the Supreme Court that's why we are there we can do all the commentaries but does he amount to law when the Supreme Court speaks everybody leaves until Supreme Court says otherwise you can do the politics with it. So what I'm saying is that let us be able to delineate the conversation clearly when you bring in the government fine the police are under the government but why do you always want to double I'm always advocating that we should allow institutions to function and we should give the institutions opportunity to operate every decision by the police we always bringing the government it is the government that is asking them to do that the government that's asking the police what kind of conversation is who progress when we start dabbling into this conversation that is petty partisan politics speaking said I have issues with those provisions the three provisions but does it make it a bad law and does it mean because of the issues I have with these provisions they should not be actionable or the police cannot arrest anybody and prosecute anybody under those provisions and as to whether or not Abon's commentary amount to a breach of the peace or amount to false information. It is for the court to determine why are we taking the food out of the court.
I don't want to double into whether or not this the the statement amount to false for false information or it could breach the peace of this country because the currently it is subjudicated. The matter is before a court.
is before a court >> right the matter is before a court so you CAN DO ALL THE commentaries outside but you must understand that it is for the judge to determine as to whether or not those threshold have been met >> it is not for the police the police are doing their work why don't we allow them to do their work if we feel the police do not have enough grounds for the prosecution let abon lawyers do it in fact that's why the constitution makes it clear that during criminal trial you must be afforded the the the adequate facilities.
>> Right. Right.
>> Land for me.
>> I've not even done the >> I've not even done the work.
>> No, I've not even done the work.
>> You've not even done the work.
>> I I'll give you another round. I'll come one more round to do the work.
>> Yes. Let me let me tell you this.
>> Let me tell you, >> let us not bring in the government because the MP is not clean. When we come to this conversation, the MPP is all clean. That's why I don't want to double in the policy. But I'm looking at a nonpartisan conversation.
It is and I'm saying that the police those tests advocate or advance of or let me say formulated by the court do not guide the police >> right okay >> those those those formulated test are to guide jud the judges >> the judges so the courts okay right >> and again as to whether or not the circuit court judge n use the den of adun's bill is punitive >> or not >> is for our determination to higher court higher court. Okay. Thank you. Now, >> no, before you make a quick point, so I'm going to go across the table again.
Apart from P, who I'll probably give 5 minutes. Everybody else, I'm giving you 3 minutes, >> okay?
>> Cuz I need to move to the next topic.
Uh, and I need to close at 10:00.
>> So, I'm giving each of you 3 minutes.
>> Yes. So, you have to do your your episode your episodes in 3 minutes.
>> Has tackled a lot of things on my >> So, you cancel them.
>> So, most of them I'll cancel once that's found expression on the show. Okay. I think that I will just let them go, but quick ones that have not been spoken to.
Um, Senak said that Anton Julius had was has been defending these arrests and the criminalization of free speech because I made the point that if you look at the tone of government, it has not seemed like government is justifying this.
Right.
>> Not only him, many of them.
>> Yes. But that is but that is not true.
That is not true. I actually watched >> But you watch his status. I actually even watched that show. Right. What Anthony Julius said, what Antony Julius said is that free speech like Senco has um intimated across the table is not absolute and is subject to respect for right and freedoms of others and the public interest and that when someone has made statement that he has seen guns being transported, is this something that the security agency should take interest? He asked the panel when someone says that he is going to kill the president is this something that the security agencies are supposed to be interested in which qualifies which brings in the qualification that article 122 put on all freedoms and right. If you listen to Anton he has been consistent in expressing reservation about the propriety of section 207 and 208 as any student of the law would do.
So it is not true that Anthony Julius has been defending this arrest and justifying sin.
>> Okay.
>> Now this the next thing he said is that because President Muhammad in the past had written an open letter condemning this arrest and all of that he is now hypocritical supervising over a regime like that. I'm very pleased that Senra has dealt with the nuances when it comes to the operation of the police in respect of executive control. But you see exactly what I wanted to avoid is what senior sh cuz I I started by saying that I for a personal position do not think that when these topics come up we should do a revisionist approach where we go back to what the MP has done. So I moved away from there and gave you the data that speaks to press freedom performance of this government. But he went on to say that this has been hypocritical. I mean if you want me to go back on all of this we can do it because Dr. was chair of Don't go against what you said you don't want to do.
>> You said you don't want to do yourself.
So don't do it.
>> Look, I've I've listed a plethora of them here. He never mentioned any at least we have admitted that the operation of 207 and 208. It's problematic and we must take steps to re the police in when they seek to abuse it. At least we have. But they run away from the conversation given an account of their stewardship when it come when it comes to you know um preciding over these incident and then go ahead to condemn and say that has never happened before citing um um what's the name media foundation for west Africa's quantitative uh h position that in one and a half year more has happened if I should tell you in 2017 just within the first year one of the first casualties was appear stadium September 2017 he was it was just within the first year so I don't know what I can list a number of them we don't have to go there now >> yes yes so senior also mentioned senior also mentioned that the judge may have looked at um >> irrelevant matters in the >> he ref he referenced what what is said in his letter >> no I I wrote it down he says that the jad may have looked at irrelevant matters in the consideration of the bill and I just wanted to point out that >> I never used irrelevant on this.
>> Oh, I I I I wrote it. But I know what he was saying was that has said something.
He was saying that >> I spoke about the discretion. Yes.
>> But I didn't use the word irrelevant.
>> He said he had taken. So you make your point >> and that it is hypocritical of this gun.
I just wanted to point out like senior Bra has already done >> that when the judgment was released.
We've got to find out that it was he actually assigned that discretion because Abroer had already been on bail for a similar offense. So the judge seeing that he had been brought back for that same offense and assess 965. What are the considerations for refusal of bail when you are considering exercising your discretion? If you if you commit further offense. So the guy says ah but you were here for this you have got to commit another offense. I do not think I have to grant you B. You can disagree with that size science of discretion, but there's a way to challenge the discretion. And once again, I won't vote there because has dealt with how despicable the conduct of the minority leader is. Are you going to respect? No, I'm I'm just going to do the last one in respect of in respect of the commentary that he made on on on on the judge and how that brings administration. I'll >> do extra 15 seconds, please.
>> Administration of justice um into oprobium. We need to also point out that you see the judge did not draft those those charges and it is somewhat very unfair that because the judiciary does not have exposed person or they are not in the practice of defending themselves openly. Sometimes we we say some of these things they never get to answer.
They not draft those charges. A child sheet has been drafted and put before the judge as to whether it meets the test under 208. We didn't even get there. A preliminary matter when a criminal proceeding start is consideration of bill. So if I say that in considering bill I know that you have committed an offense and so because of that I'm denying you bill. It is not the same as upholding those charges that those charges amount to you publishing false news or saying something likely to breach the peace. It's not the same as that. We have not even got him to trial and that point must be made.
>> How did the judge then come to the conclusion that it's a similar it's a similar it was fact. No, he wrote it in the judgment.
>> Listen to what I'm saying. Listen to what you are saying. You are saying that the determination has not been made and yet the judge found it expedient bill on the basis of a previous no let me let me clarify.
Okay. No, I know but it's because family has come in. So just clarify. So I need that clarify.
>> So let me clarify. I have not said that that substantive matter had been determined. What is contained in the judgment is that he had appeared before that judge on a similar offense as contained in that charge sheet >> and he had been granted bail. While on bail he committed another offense offense.
>> Yes. A similar offense for which he has been brought before the judge. As to whether that offense will meet your offense.
>> Fine. alleged offense. It's contained in the CH sheet. So don't worry as to whether it will meet the threshold or not. It hadn't been decided. But the judge said that you on bail for this offense. This same offense has been brought before me under 96. I have discretion bill.
>> So that is exactly what and it's contained in the judgment.
>> Okay. Three minutes.
>> Well, you see you have five minutes.
You've used one already.
One of the things about political communication is an is the expression of opinions.
>> All of us are expressing our opinions.
All of us seated here. Nobody is expressing law because it is not within our remmit to interpret the law. None of us. So when somebody expresses opinion, you should not conclusively advance arguments which appears to suggest that your law is superior to the law that is or your opinion is superior to another person's opinion in respect only of the interpretation of the of of of the law.
What I've said here and you see and and when I talk about political hypocrisy, this is what I'm talking about. We've had many instances of people who were arrested in the previous administration.
Some of us embarked on demonstration in because of the the kinds of actions which were met out to those people. I was part of those demonstrations.
Are you following me? I am a staunch promoter of freedom of expression because I'm a journalist and I'm saying that countries have fallen because we've denied people the opportunity of expressing themselves and let me let me let me take you to the palace when you deny people the opportunity of expressing themselves what will happen will be the Arab string The only reason why our democracy has survived over these years is because we have allowed adversarial narrations to be firmly grounded in our political discourse. That is the only reason why our democracy has survived.
Do you think that is it the deliberateness on the part of any judge or the deliberateness on the part of any politician? It is because our constitution is designed to give opportunity for people to express themsel occasionally. Occasionally we have some fallout occasionally and it is also part of the process. I am saying that we must get to the point where some of these things will not be overly politicized. It is clear ma somebody out of right must be granted bill. This is logic. The person goes to for instance the BNI. The BNI goes to court and then the court says I've granted you bill but the conditions attached to the bill is to go and bring $50 million.
What are we doing? What are we doing? So tomorrow, tomorrow because you are saying that it is at the discretion of the judge. So the judge must must exercise that discretion as he pleases.
It must be contained or confined to law.
>> ARTICLE 296 >> ARTICLE 296 DEFINES THAT. AND I'M saying I'm saying that if we are not careful tomorrow somebody will be arrested, the person will be denied bill or the person will be granted bill but may not meet the bill. you see that Oliver >> I don't want that repeating itself because we are still nursing a very young democracy and I don't want this state for that nonsense in our polit body polity because that is what appears to be happening and I'm saying that we have look I am telling you all right we have politicized all our institutions in this COUNTRY WE HAVE POLITICIZED ALL our institutions are you telling me that right now it is not evident that some of the state institutions are panding into the capacities of government. WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? SO LET'S NOT PLAY THE OSTRICH. Let's speak truth to power.
Let's speak truth to be consistent.
Look, when we went for demonstration, I nearly got lynched.
What are you talking protecting our democracy? Let us protect our democracy.
THAT IS ALL WE HAVE BECAUSE if we lose that, the country will collapse. I'm telling you, the country will collapse.
>> Thank you, Rajak.
>> Thank you very much. I think uh my response was to Mr. Ala >> um but I think uh since Alfa has adopted some of his opinion it's better I address much of what he said >> you mean since Austin >> yeah yeah say he has adopted much of what Kami said Austin >> said what Austin said >> so you are now addressing Austin >> so I with just one word for alpha alpha is a living example of the hypocrite his submission here is a living of the example of the hypocrisy I spoke about the president which he tried to uh denounce the charge. You said we shouldn't talk about something and you are here saying exactly that making reference to exactly that.
>> But when it come to speaking in the national interest he needed Mr. Mr. Austin Mr. Austin said he was speaking >> Mr. Austin said my time when he Mr. also said he was speaking in the national interest. I don't think so.wami was speaking in the national interest.wami submission was much neutral and he speak to the issues in neutrality grounds. Mr. Austin found the need to even said what a market said was the new lowest >> but I don't know why he has a little memories. In fact, if you look at the law and you look at what the judge was doing, the judge abandoned the law and he was doing something else. Look, and we have to remember that the judges are not above the law. The court is a creature of the law. It takes law to appoint a judge and we must retain the right to criticize judgment. So for example is saying that he has no respect for for the judge. My interpretation of that because the judge has abandoned the law and was doing something else and for the judge perhaps he didn't pass his law school. I believe that a market upon second reflection would agree that he has gone a bit far for that one. But is that a new law? I don't think so in 2023.
We have the speaker of parliament, no minority leader, a speaker of parliament, the father of the house who had the opportunity to meet the public.
And the speaker of parliament said our supreme court was in bed with the president sinning against our constitution and that they needed to repent. OUR SPEAKER OF PARLIAMENT. HE SAID IN 2023 when he sent a when his case was in court, he lost for unlawfully breaching the constitution when article 99 rightfully gave power to the to the high court and he assumed and stole those powers claiming article 110 and the ascending order gave him that power and the court revered that decision. He was there bashing the court and said the Supreme Court was sitting against our constitution. That was a new law. The >> So that was that was the old law.
>> It was the worst. Now there's a new law.
>> Another worst one was DC. They conspire against our Supreme Court and was calling them unanimous five >> and that poorly reflected in our unanimous FC. or whatever they they said it the bottom line is that it reflected poorly in in the Afroaral report right >> so this NDC's for me they are a threat to our democracy when it comes to our judiciary the constitution said the the the the constitution should be I mean the the court the the independence of the judiciary must be what guaranteed they don't want the independence of this judicial So I'm surprised that you you claim to be the new protector of the of the judiciary when the very people who have took down our democracy our judiciary to the extent that is reflecting poor in the Afro report the lowest on all democratic let me indexes freedom of speech >> that I have no respect for anybody >> who single out the judge and criticize him for his work. I have no respect and in that school I have no respect for a market for what he did >> no for I'm not talking about the speaker I'm talking about I have no respect for him for what he did >> for sending out the judge and criticize him for doing his work >> I'm not interested in what the speaker that's that's on the table that's on that's not an issue here if there's any government that has taken the steps to amend this vex provisions sessions 207 and 208 of act 29 and 74 and 76 of act 77 it is this government the hate the misinformation disinformation hate speech and publication and other information bill which was drafted by some judge he has in the prop he has in the proposed section 88 the repeal of these provisions >> so if there's any demonstrable good any party any government that has demonstrated good faith >> is here >> criminal li was repealed >> we are talking about WHAT IS HERE WHY DO YOU bring but yeah you have the right to say that so so it must be it must be pointed it must be pointed out that when it comes to these provisions >> the NC government has demonstrated good faith >> and that is that is that is commendable >> you have just said MP was And it must and my montage means that they are signaling.
Is the government stamping out free speech? The answer is no.
>> Oh dear.
>> And is bail out as of right? The answer is no.
>> And so we must get across. We must understand that you can't pick this incident and claim that and generalize that there's there's a stamping out of free speech. cuz anybody stopped you from your your your your take every morning has anybody stop this anyway. So that's that's an interesting question I'm being asked. Nobody this program nobody nobody has come to me we'll be taking a quick break. Right after the break, we'll be discussing the the court of appeals decision on the the licings of GM savings and loans. We'll be joined uh on Zoom uh to have or by two new panel members to discuss this further. We'll be right back after this break.
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The court said the decision that the bank of Ghana took license was wrong. So they ordered the bank to the license.
The receiver is now in charge of the bank and all his assets.
has to hand over all the management also.
So we take the necessary steps to prepare.
>> What will be the next steps after this?
Well, the next step is that we need to find um it's it's been a a difficult very very difficult uh seven years.
We want to thank family.
I want to thank all of our employees.
Uh we've had some very very very loyal, hardworking employees who have stood with us all these years. Um and definitely we give thanks to Almighty uh for keeping us healthy enough to be where we are because this has been a very very tough very difficult time that we have gone through.
It's just unimaginable.
There's a lot to say but not today. Uh at an appropriate time we will hold this conference to go through what we have experienced and the difficulties moving forward.
What I want to say is that we are in a very good good political environment.
Well, gentlemen, I'm I'm back.
>> Welcome back from uh the break. U current agenda is proudly sponsored by Bank of Africa and the NPA.
Well, we are back. We will be discussing the GN savings uh and loans ruling and then uh also uh if there's a bit of time we would also look at the whole banking sector cleanup uh this the year I think we are we are 9 years after uh whether it's really solved the problem they intended to solve. We've been joined uh by Professor Isaac Buui. He's a dean for the faculty of accounting and finance at the UPSA and also a director at the Institute of Economic Research and Public Policy. The acronym is a mouthful. AE RP are you able to pronounce as a word or something?
>> We can do that. I've received several calls uh that we should call it that way. So >> ah okay >> come very soon we'll c you >> today your CV has gone around don't worry about me focus on me I'm the host for today so brav uh we we we heard um that there's a court of appeal ruling that has directed for the the license the management of the GN savings and loans to be returned to the shareholders and Um what this means is that GN uh savings and loans can once this is is done can uh operate their branches nationwide.
Uh what does this mean in in the banking sector in the financial space uh as as as an authority in that space? What does this mean?
>> Yeah, good morning to you and your viewers, my colleagues as well. Uh I was enjoying their submission whilst I was backstage.
Um it's a victory for for Ghana and I'm happy also for him and as a country we need to respect our laws.
He's followed the procedures went to court and uh on Friday I think it was from Friday I was given a judgment whilst I was enjoying your conversation I'm also mindful of the free of speech the freedom of speech that I have to be careful what I say because now if I'm arrested I don't have anyone to be the the conditions or lawyers >> nobody will even arrest you in the first the lawyer will deliberately arrest you and show you purposely You never >> the lawyers would >> state your economic position.
>> No, you know how much >> will be demanded. Would you back >> how much the the issue 100,000 and 200,000 so a victory for Ghana but if you want to discuss this thoroughly you need to master the chronology.
Um and I asked a few question before I even focus on the the various stages.
Was this captured in NDC manifesto?
>> The restoration of Dolan's banks.
>> Was it captured?
>> I don't have a promise. It >> was a promise. Yes.
If you listen to the last suna in 2016, the president today mentioned that lack of superition from the central bank had resulted in some of these banks that the collapse ones to indulge in uh pyram pyramid schemes and the Yes, you can listen to that tape and you get the answers for yourself.
>> Who was a lawyer for Indu month ago?
>> Justice in respect of this >> this case.
>> Yes. When >> got the deputy a >> okay >> he has handed over all his private cases. So he wasn't the lawyer in this case.
in previous.
>> Yes. When he was in previous practice, he had asking questions >> at the high court >> which saw that.
>> Yes. And the ruling had come after he had abandoned the court of appeal for certain that he was there. He was >> at the high court >> at the high court there. That's fine.
Did Indom celebrate victory before the judgment?
Did this administration also celebrate the victory having laid all these question which I don't have answers to >> well your viewers will be there right >> maybe >> so I've asked all these questions I don't have answers but maybe throughout discussion some of them will be answered.
The first thing that I wanted to the question I asked sometimes accountability should override political sympathy.
It's very important.
There's nothing wrong for an administration to capture the restoration of the defund banks in a manifesto.
and now seeks to implement them day by day.
I have that manifesto as a Bible with me all the time. So I've been checking if our our institute will check and in the next few days or weeks we are going to do a one-year uh assessment of this administration.
So I've been ticking this promise has been fulfilled.
I'm waiting for the mining one that will bind all the illegal the galam issues.
So I'm waiting for that one to be ticked. So I'm happy day in day out we're taking the box. That is fine. Now let's move and consider the chronology of this oldest development.
In 2019 somewhere January the bank was reclassified by BOG.
Then in the same year in August the Lens was revoked and receiver was appointed.
It followed up to 2024.
And sometimes we don't need to forget the history of this whole discussions.
I have the report from BOG and the report was prepared in August 16th August 2029 2019. And that's why I have with me here going to list all the issues including GN bank and if you permit me I'll read some sections of the same issue on the GM bank shareholders have failed to restore the bank to the required regulatory capital and liquidity levels in spite of longstanding promises that new capital was expected from foreign investors.
This is a report from BOG that supported the decision to collapse for the claim and I have all the other institutions you know we are talking about nine banks you are talking about 347 micro finance we are talking about 9 23 savings and loans and I'm reading one aspect because you're talking about GN I read here, YGN has indicated that government owes to it total amount of 942 million of which 102 million represented interim payment certificate IPC that the bank the Ghana's assessment is that uh total of this amount had been confirmed by the minister of finance. So some of the things that were uh settled by Indom if government had paid those contractors he would have we would not be have been in that situation and out of this amount B now confirms only 3002 million Now if you establish a bank and you want to give credit to someone per the policy you know the five C's in credit the condition the capital the collateral as a fallback position in when someone default that is what you have to liquidate and get your money back because you take you sell you buy money to sell So when someone gives you money, you buy and then you sell in the process there should be a fall back position. So if you allege, if you didn't do that and you've gone into this situation, then you don't hold the government accountable that you have paid those people for you also paid your people.
That's fine.
It must be noted that GN insolveny problems are largely attributable to overdrafts and other facility it extended to its related parties who are other companies in the group indom network of businesses.
It continues of particular interest are the funds totaling 761 million that GN as it then was placed with it sister companies the growth fund the go coast fund management and then the security and commission in addition g insolveny and liquidity challenges the bank of Ghana had found other regulatory violations such as the following and I want to mention the last one here. The structure of GN balance sheet clearly shows that bank mobilizes deposits for its related companies.
The bank mobilizes deposits >> for its related companies.
The inability of these related companies to honor their obligations GN has resulted in serious liquidity challenges and contribute to their insolveny as it related party exposures are non-performing. The insertion high non-performing loans was mainly attributable to these related party exposures which were never paid thereby putting the deposits of it customers at risk.
Now this happened to be some of the things said by bog that's why they revoked the lances.
I have no problem if someone to challenge who gives you lances to operate a bank in Ghana is BG.
They have their own set and rules and regulation you must follow. BOG who withdraws lances B apex of the entire financial institution they are in charge. Good.
All has been withdrawn because of some of these things and that is what is linked to the Sona by a former president in 2016.
And I was doing a research some time ago before the collapse of the the banks a chance of that document. I brought that issue up.
I saw that document prepared by the by then administration that the those those banks had not been performing and should have not be in operation for so many years.
They kept that document.
It was the same report our president referred to.
So when the PPP took over that report was same and they implemented the outcome I must say others have been affected and sometime when I talking about this bit show kind of uh remorse of this I mean not comfortable because some people have gone through a lot of have had a lot of issues I can understand there have been other options of solving that problem is something we will debate we can talk about every time. My worry here is after the judgment what is the credibility of the regulator who becomes the credibility of BOG today that the whole apex highest form the mother of all financial institutions drag to court and now the judgment is given.
mean I don't know no law I learn from my good friend it's a victory to someone but my challenge is that this is a financial institution aex they give and they have the authority to withdraw if someone fall far thank you thank you Um I just do I have just a few minutes so I'll just do two minutes across but where Prof ended >> Prof has made a very important and interesting point that the the law that founded the B >> gives it the power to license uh banks savings and loans micro finances >> uh and it has that same law gives them the power to revoke such license. Now the report is read uh has indicated reasons why in 2019 the licenses were revoked. They went to court in 2024 the court upheld these decisions. There's a court of appeal ruling that now seems to say that the application was not fair. I'm yet to read the entire ruling but from what we have heard is that so they should return or they should give back the license.
Do you foresee that the BOG appealing this again to insist on what it uncovered being the reason why it revoked the license?
>> Yeah. Before I answer that straight away because I have limited time, let me capture the essence of the point I want to make.
>> Okay. This ruling from the court of appeal reflect the reckless management of the financial sector as the NDC had already mentioned in opposition. The court of appeal just reaffirmed the position of the NDC that the collapse of these banks most of them was done arbitrary. It was political interest at stake and was not done with due process. Prof went into the details and give us a very good background and I appreciate Prof's position because he is a financial person and gave the reasons and all of that but the basis for the judgment is not about the economic reasons or financial reasons for the collapse of the bank. It's about procedure. The reasons may be there.
Let's even grant that those reasons, liquidity challenges and all of that.
But because the Bank of Ghana itself is regulated by law, the way in which they grant and revoke license is regulated by law. That procedure for the revocation of the license is as important as the substantive issues >> and that is what a court of appeal is.
The judgment is not yet out. But from media reports and I listened to Clintus to Alena who is the council for H group at the court of appeal. It is about the procedure the court of appeal says it's unreasonable it was unfair. So yes there may be all of that reasons but that those reasons when you are applying the regulatory mechanism must also be within the context of fairness, reasonability and all that to stand the test. Now it's important that we make the point that this ruling has farreaching implications and I do not know the council for group was saying that they don't have instructions yet as to compensation and all because they've not been working for 7 years the lines had been removed for seven years and you see the financial sector has moved forward I'm sure prof will agree with with me on this changes have come within these seven years and a bank is not only about a license When you restore a bank's license, it doesn't end there. A bank is about liquidity.
It's about asset. It's about technology.
It's about systems. It's about human resource. Okay? Is also about trust and public confidence. So the court of appeal has made a decision that the bank of Ghana should restore the license and that the asset that was under the receiverhip of a of a receiver should be restored back to the owners. That is a court of appeal decision. But what is the true implication of the decision that the central bank made in 2019 under the previous government? Will that decision if it is being considered in totality have farreaching implications such that group indom will struggle to even resuscitate the bank? Okay, >> that is the true question.
>> You still not answered my question.
>> Considering that this was a campaign promise.
>> Yes.
>> And now where it is the campaign promise has been fulfilled. You need to listen.
>> The only person who can appeal this case is an appointee of the one who made the campaign promise.
>> Is there any indication that there might be an appeal?
>> There has not been any indication. It doesn't mean that there will be an appeal or not. Your question is has there been any indication? I've not seen the governor. The bank of Ghana hasn't responded. He hasn't said anything. The judgment came the judgment came only first day. But you only need to listen to >> okay >> papaindu >> after the judgment he was very clear that a certain political climate made it possible for this judgment alluding to the fact that >> the revocation in it first place was political >> thank you >> I think that um I am I am happy that the ends of justice have been met um I was one of the people who didn't take kindly to the decision by the then administration to withdraw and revoke licenses. I I thought that that created a huge bottleneck in terms of uh um the distribution of our economic um resources >> um because we run a class system where we have the upper class, the the middle class and the lower class. And I thought that majority of the young people who were working within the banking institutions were within that um middle class bracket which ostensibly meant that you know there was a circle effect of their um their ability to to to you know get work and and take care of their families etc. So I was one of the people who really disagreed and disapproved with that. But it was also very evident to me that this was more like a political attack. It was not born out of genuiness on the part of Bank of Ghana to ensure sanity within the operations of GN group because you know the trajectory first there was recapitalization deficiency of about $400 billion. You give them a certain time frame and by the 31st of I think I believe August or so they said that they have not met you know the requirements and therefore you are withdrawing their banking status license. Then you reduce them to savings and loans. Then you gave them just within a period of 7 months they are saying that you've taken the license again. I mean it was pure political witch hunting and for me I am happy that sometimes when you cannot find comfort within the uh comfort within the political architecture you can find comfort within the law and I'm happy that a judgment has been delivered which finds expression in logic which finds expression in law and which find finds expression in morality.
>> Thank you lawyer. Um I disagree with uh bothwami and then alpha here. For me having listened to the expert in this particular area in the case of professor body I am very convinced that the decision that was made was made in the public interest I mean he has cataloged a number of failures that the banks have said to have suffered here. It has nothing to do with the government at that time and you yourself insisted bank of Ghana it's an independent institution currently even though you have appointed yourself spokesperson for them in the recent losses but if they are an independent institutions and they came out with all these reports about the failings of this bank how can you then attribute it to the then government and for me this is not the first time banks have failed you you've alluded to the fact that in the in the at the latter period when President Roles was in his administration the the the famous bank bank for housing and construction had failed. I mean are you are going to attribute that to the fact that the then government didn't like bank for housing and construction.
>> So for me no I am just trying I'm just asking that rhetorical question. It doesn't matter. He can always say that.
But for me as a believer in the rule of law, >> I think if that is what the court appeal decision is, we welcome it.
>> But then that is not the end of the tale. The government should assess it and see whether it is in the national interest. If need be, it can go to the Supreme Court. But we can already predict the outcome of it. As Rogers said, it is in their manifesto. They have dance to it and they are not even accessing the national interest. Thank you. L P the decision will have serious economic and regulatory meltdowns and I must admit that the implications will be far and wide >> because as B has indicated already the company has gone into receiverhip. Some assets have been disposed of. Customers >> deterated >> deterated even some even are even are even deterating. Customers have some of them have been paid others are yet to be paid. Workers some of them have found different level of employment. My charge is that Bank of Ghana must challenge this decision because if it believes that it took the right decision, Bank of Ghana must challenge because under section 16 of of act 930 which is the banks and specialized deposits taking initutions.
Okay, that architecture section 16 gives an opportunity to afford the other party the party that the institution whose license will be revoked an opportunity to respond. If that process was exhausted, I think of must challenge it.
It ensures regulatory certainty. So they are challenging your decision >> and this will open the flag for other banks and other savings and loans >> that lost their license to also challenge you. So Bank of Ghana has a responsibility to these people of to Ghanaians to challenge the decision at the Supreme Court.
>> Prof. Just 30 seconds. So if you have any uh parting comments 30 seconds a copy of this book.
>> Okay. It it will >> I I I I I'll in fact I'll take it right there and do a copy. I'll let you try.
>> It tells you all the amount that were transferred into those uh >> but it's interesting to know that the I mean the revenue the revenue that was or the the depositors money was being I mean that bit I I'll read a report.
>> So the other institution covered the thank you very much. Thank you very much. Uh so uh my appreciation to Benjamin Alfa Edu uh lawyer Benjamin Alfa Edu he's a member of the NDC national communications team to uh lawyer Ishach Ibrahim member of the MPP communication team to lawyer Austin P a private legal practitioner to lawyerwamus Dansu executive director lands and minds watch to professor Isaac Bui uh he's the only person that had lawyer but added professor h the dean faculty of accounting and finance at the UPSA and also the director for institute of economic research and public policy and also to the managing director for metro mass transit um lawyer I think it's colola what's the name Caesar yeah Caesar >> okay >> okay right lawyer Caesar h thank Thank you and thank you to also uh my viewers and listeners this morning uh make uh time with us same time next week to uh join in the discussions. We apologize for not being able to read your WhatsApp messages but let's keep the interaction going. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
For me, my panel and the technical team, we say bye-bye and see you next week.
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