The video provides a sharp critique of moral binaries by grounding theological debate in textual evidence rather than blind dogma. It successfully shifts the focus from simplistic labels to the unsettling complexity of divine intent.
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What's Your Best Evidence that God is NOT EVIL?Added:
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Don't kill.
What is up everybody?
How y'all doing?
Happy Tuesday. Hope you're all enjoying your Tuesday and we're going to have a fun live today.
He goes, "Born again atheist is going to join us at five o'clock Eastern time."
So, in about an hour.
So, I hope you all are excited for that.
Hope you all looking forward to that. I certainly am. So, I think this is going to be a really, really fun live today.
Um, I'm I'm looking for born again to bring the heat, Grandino, thank you. Glad you like the music.
Glad you like it. Pokés, good to see you.
So, I hope you're all uh excited in about an hour. 58 minutes approximately, give or take. Hey, pressure. It's good to see you.
Sure did. You know, we should probably do a Hel, we got to do like a dance cam, right?
Watch you all get down to the uh intro music. That'd be cool.
So, it's good to see everybody again.
Happy Tuesday. We have HTTOV Science Zeno Btor very good wizard welcome in on the other side we've got forever atheist we have pressure pokey gurroomi made on main so me too I've been waiting too so uh I'm pretty pretty fired up today So, today we're gonna do Oh, and I have I've got a little surprise. Now, I'm not sure if I should wait until Born Again atheist comes in or if I should just start if I should just start doing it now. What do y'all think? What do you guys think? Should I put him on now or should I wait?
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think? Now.
Now. Okay, we're going to put them on now. There it is.
So, we're doing this so born again and can feel a little bit more at home, right?
You know, this isn't usually my thing, but this is definitely born again's thing. So, we're going to make our co-host feel as welcome as possible.
So, so uh this is what we're talking about today.
So if you are a believer in the God of the Bible, the Torah or the Quran, and you have evidence that God is not evil, request up.
So let's do this.
Take a guest or two.
wait for Born again to come in and um and I'm going to leave the I'm going to leave the the guest Q for ops.
So, we're going to do that mostly today.
I do not worship Satan.
So, let's tap the screen.
trustees on the you on the Tik Tok side.
Tik Tok trustees, let's tap the screen.
Let's let's share it out. And for the YouTube trustees, same thing. Let's get those likes going. Let's share out the link to the live stream and let's get some folks in here.
And and if you are a believer and you know someone that has some evidence that God is not evil, well share share the live with them and let's get them up.
So let's hear some evidence that God is not evil.
Let's go. CBJ CBJ Who are you to test God? You have no authority. Well, as far as I far as I'm concerned, neither does God. Demonstrate that God has authority because if I don't have authority and God doesn't have authority, then doesn't matter.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm testing whether this evil god character is good or bad. This god character is good or bad. I'm trying to find out for real because all the indicators that we have is that this guy is a psychopath, a sociopath, a narcissist.
like everything the dark triad, right?
This guy embodies the dark triad.
So if any if any of the PhDs come on in, they can enlighten us on what the dark triad is.
But that would be a narciss narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy.
And this god embodies all those traits.
So, let's hear it.
You don't agree, you disagree, join up and let's talk about your evidence.
You are the best evidence that God is love. How so?
How am I evidence that God is love?
Is it you mean like people in general or just me?
Because if it's people in general, then if people in general are evidence that God is love.
I mean, we've got babies born with cancer. We've got babies born with tricome 18 and and seephille leash nyan syndrome I don't know I don't know why a god of love would allow that god of love allowing suffering that's not necessary freedom of choice is the best evidence that god is love how so an evil god could give us choice You rebel against God because you lean on your own understandings, making yourself God. You know, Pokey, we should get really, really good calls today, huh? We should. And how does 1 John 4, chapter 8, how is that true? How do you know that's true? That's because God gave free will and chose wrong.
So, request up.
Well, I'm feeling like Okay, we got a guest in the queue on the Tik Tok side.
What do we got on the YouTube side?
Nothing yet. And so, you got two ways to join. If you're on Tik Tok, you can tap the little blue and pink people at the bottom of your phone or you can join the link at tinyurall.com/tbv guest.
So, let's start with prx pxrt718.
Let's go.
How's it going?
>> How's it going?
>> Hey, I'm good. How are you?
>> Yeah, doing well. Can I get your age and pronouns, please?
I am 30 male.
>> 30 male.
>> Uh, >> okay. That's your sex. Do you want to be referred to which pronouns? They, them, he, her, he, she, she, him, he, him.
Okay.
>> All right.
>> Fantastic. Okay. And which god do you believe in?
>> Um, I am Muslim.
>> Muslim.
>> Yeah.
>> Justice for Aisha. Justice for Aisha.
Justice for Aisha. Justice for Aisha.
Hashtag it chat. All right. What's your best evidence? God is not evil.
>> So, um, evil could be established if we could establish intent. But nobody on the planet can establish God's intent, good or evil.
>> Oh, okay. So, you don't have any evidence then?
Well, I mean, can you call fire evil if it's destructive? I mean, if something's destructive, you can't just say it's evil. So, >> there's no intent behind it. It's not p, you know, you if we're trying to personify evil, so that'd be a category error, right? Cuz fire doesn't have a mind. God does supposedly according to you.
>> Well, I mean I mean, yeah, sure. Um, but I don't think anybody can prove the intent of God at all, >> whether it's good or evil.
>> All right. So, you have no evidence that God is not evil, then?
>> I have no evidence that we can. Well, it's not that I don't have evidence. I just think it can't be established that he's good or evil.
>> Okay. What is your evidence that he's not evil then?
>> Because we have no proof of his intent, >> his intent.
>> And how is that evidence that he's not evil?
Because to be evil by definition, there has to be some type of intent, shouldn't there be?
>> So, which is true. What I'm what I'm saying though is that if you have evidence that he's not evil or if he's good or however you want to phrase it, that he's if you have evidence that he's good, um, how is lack of establishing intent evidence?
>> Well, it's just it's nothing. It's a null.
Correct. Correct. We can't establish if he's good or evil. Therefore, we can't say he's evil.
>> Okay. So, you have no evidence then. You have no evidence that he's good. You can't say that he's good, too.
>> Right. Correct.
>> Right. So, you don't have any evidence.
>> No physical evidence. No. I mean, >> no evidence whatsoever. Right.
>> I mean, if you're saying >> logic logically, we can't say good or evil. So, can you say evil? You know what I mean? That's really where I'm going with this. Well, if I if I look the if I look at the Quran and the H hadiths, um >> accounts of people still no intent.
>> Accounts of people.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Do you believe that the Quran and the Hadiths were revealed by Allah?
>> I believe that all scriptures and all religions are accounts of people that do not reveal the actual intent of a creator. They can reveal the actions given to people. For example, the interactions given to people, but they can never tell you the exact intent, the mind, the thought, the logic. They only tell you what people are meant to perceive.
>> Okay.
>> But we do not have any solid evidence of God's intents.
>> So, you're a heretic.
>> I would say some would call me that.
Sure. I'm not a I'm not a devo Muslim, by the way. I mean, >> yeah, you were pretty chill when I was saying Justice for Aisha, so I got >> Yeah, I'm not I don't fall for any of those religious rage rates. You know what I mean? It's like >> I I don't I don't get that involved in something that I can't control. So, >> Oh, that's cool.
>> Uh but, you know, that's that's what I think about um >> the whole idea of if God is evil or not.
If you can't prove he's good, you can't prove he's evil.
>> I agree.
>> Can't prove he's can't prove he's good.
I agree 100%. And >> I just Yeah.
>> Do you believe that God is good?
>> I believe that God, like any creator, like for example, if I were to create a program and then never look at it again, um you can't say that I was good or evil based on what happens to that program.
So, I believe that if God exists in the capacity that everybody claims he exists, um I don't think that there's intentions after creation that we can quantify. We can't measure it. So, I can't say if he's good or evil.
>> Okay.
>> Um so, you don't really know.
>> I don't >> Yeah, I don't know.
>> Okay. Well, this was Okay.
>> That's all I wanted to add.
>> All right. Well, hey, no, that's fine.
That's fine. I I don't mind short conversations. So, I'm just glad we got to the heart of the matter like really fast. So, all right.
>> All right. Thank you, man.
>> All right. Have a good day.
>> You too.
>> All right. So, yeah, I don't mind uh quick short conversations. So, um so just today, um note to friendlies, I'm just I'm going to leave the uh queue open because I have a special co-host coming in today, Born Again atheist. Not that my other friends who come up aren't special. um special in the sense that uh we had to work around born again atheist schedule. Yeah. So, but thanks for coming up, Welsh. Um but yeah, we had to work around her schedule and so I want to uh maximize the time that she has today and I think she's here for like an hour, hour and a half, something like that. So, uh yeah. So, if you are in the Kescue, please be at least 18, a believer in the God of the Bible, the Torah or the Quran.
And you know what?
You know what? It's not We still got 45 minutes. So, how about you? How about you keep the seat warm, Welsh? Uh, where you at? Where you at? There you are.
Here. Keep the seat warm. How about that? And uh let's see where was I? Oh yeah. Yeah.
Believer in the God of the Bible, the Torah or the Quran at least 18. And please have evidence that your God is not evil.
So we're going to go with there. All right. So that's that's what gets you up on here on the guest panel.
Oh, thanks Contra Deity. So, this is for our special co-host today. Yeah. So, all right. Let's bring up Michael.
How's it going, Michael?
>> Good. How are you doing?
>> Doing well. Thanks for asking. All right. Can I get your age and pronouns, please?
Um, I'm 47 and I'm a man.
>> You're a man. All right. That is your sex or gender. So, uh, which pronouns do you prefer people refer to you as as a man? Some men like to be referred to as they them. Uh, zam it.
>> Its.
>> I don't know.
>> You say, "Hey, you."
>> Hey, you. Okay. Well, that's one. All right. So, not he him, not she, her, not they, them. No, none of that.
>> I mean, I'm a man. What else is there to say? I mean, >> well, like I said, there are some men who go by they them. So, some go by it.
>> I'm old school, man.
>> I'm old school. I'm really not into all the new lingo lingo stuff. Like, I I don't know what all that is. So, >> pronouns have been around for quite a while.
>> Yeah, but I don't use them like that.
>> You don't use them like that?
>> If you have if you're a human being and you're you have common sense, you hear my voice. That's all you need.
>> Yes, exactly. We have common sense.
That's why we ask for pronouns because people use different pronouns. So, it's common sense to ask people for their pronouns. You're absolutely right. So, >> I'm a Jolly Rancher. I'm a freaking Jolly Rancher with legs.
>> I don't know what the [ __ ] I don't know what the [ __ ] that means. You're You're a piece of candy with legs.
>> I don't know. I'm just making fun of you for coming up with some pronoun. Okay, we'll just we'll just go with she her.
How's that sound, ma'am?
>> All right.
>> Whatever you want. Whatever you want.
You're the one with little gay horns on your head.
>> All right. Ooh, yeah. Went that way already. Okay. So, I guess you're going to try to demonstrate that your god is not evil. Which god are you trying to defend here?
>> I'm uh I have a question. So, what do you >> I'm not going to answer until you answer my question.
>> So, which god do you are you driving?
>> No.
Okay. But we heard a signal.
>> Yeah. So, you're driving and so it's, you know, Yeah.
All right. Let's go to the next one.
So, if you are in the box, please be at least 18, a believer in the God of the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, and please have evidence that God is not evil.
>> Not evil.
>> How's it going?
Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Can I get your age agent pronouns, please?
I'm 42. I'm male.
>> You're male. That's your sex. Thank you.
Congratulations. And by as a male, which pronouns do people refer to you as? She, her, they, them, its, it, its, zam.
>> Doctor.
>> Doctor. That's a title.
>> That would be a title.
>> Okay, let's go with that.
>> Doctor.
>> Yeah, you can just call me doctor.
That's fine.
>> Okay. I'm a vet, so that's that's fine.
>> You're a vet. All right.
Um, okay.
>> Question to you is, so you believe God does not exist, correct?
>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. So, which God are you trying to defend today?
>> Capital G.
>> I don't. That means nothing to me. What What is that?
>> The only true God. Capital G. Jesus Christ.
>> 4,000. Ah, Christian God. Okay. All right. What's your best evidence this God is not evil?
>> Well, well, I was just going to ask you a question. That's why I said, "Can I come up?" I just have a question.
>> Yeah. So, >> yeah. You see the You see the question above my head, right? And you heard me clearly say, "If you have evidence that God is not evil, come on up and request." So, I'm assuming that you have evidence that God is not evil.
>> All right. So, you're just going to ignore my question.
>> It's pretty disrespectful >> answer, but you keep speaking over me.
That's very disrespectful.
>> I'm gonna answer right now.
>> Can I answer or are you gonna just Yeah.
What's your evidence?
>> Have you read the Bible?
>> Okay. That's not a That's not That's not evidence. That's a question. So, what's your evidence that God is real?
>> Okay. Well, the book of Luke would tell you that God is real. Science is proving that God is real. Archaeological discoveries are >> Why are we talking about God is real when my question is God is evil? Why are we talking about that?
>> Because I'm asking if you even believe in him. If you don't believe in him, then what's the point of your premise?
>> Okay. Is Lord Voldemort evil?
>> I don't even know who the [ __ ] Lord Voldemort is >> from Harry Potter. The bad guy in Harry Potter.
>> About the bad guy in Superman, Lex Luthor. You know who that is?
>> I'm not I'm not gay. I don't watch Harry Potter. I'm simply trying to answer your premise.
>> Granted. So, do you do you know who Superman is?
Do I know him personally or do I know of the car comic book character?
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, you're the one.
>> You know Superman, right? Okay. So, are you saying that Superman exists for real?
>> Why would you ask a dumb question like that?
>> When did I ask that?
>> You said, "Am I do I know him in real life?"
>> Confusing circle jerk with someone so uneducated.
>> How about this? Okay. How about this uh big guy, Doc? How about you just answer my [ __ ] question? How about that? So, how about this?
>> Let me ask you this. Why are >> you're not going to ask me [ __ ] You're not going to ask me [ __ ] because you're an ass. So, you're just going to answer the questions that I have or you can just skip on out. That's what you can do. So, my question to you is, does Superman have villains in the story in the comic book? Okay, I'm going to invite you to mute. You may answer now.
So for a doctor, do you not know how Tik Tok works? So just press the little microphone so you can talk.
Okay. Why are atheists always fat?
>> Okay. So, the question you have is, does the Superman comic books do does the Superman comic books have >> villains in it? That's That's the only thing you're allowed to answer. You're not I'm just going to mute you if you try to say anything else.
>> Okay. So, >> so again, >> fat >> again. See, you went you went to Meta.
You went to Meta.
>> So, um, so let's talk about your Bible.
You're you you only believe in the capital G, the only Christian God. Now, you may be a vet, but you clearly have not read the Bible. Either that or you're not a real Christian. Which one is it?
And I see I can't I can't Yeah. So, have you not read the Bible or are you not real a real Christian? Which one is it?
I have the Bible sitting beside me.
>> Oh, you do? Okay. Why don't you open up to Colossians 3:12, big guy?
>> Why don't you open up to that and tell us what it says?
>> All right, stand by.
>> But I do want you to answer why are atheists always fat while I'm doing this.
>> Yeah. So, um, yeah, I'm not going to answer [ __ ] from you. I'm not going to do [ __ ] for you.
>> If you're going to stay up here, you're going to only do stuff for me. So read the Bible, big guy. It's probably the first time in your life you've read it.
>> I'm not I'm not into your gay dominatrix stuff.
>> Actually, you must be because you're getting your back blown out right now.
You're prolapsing, big guy.
>> You're you're choking on my rhetorical member.
>> Yes, you are.
>> I'm just curious why atheists are always fat and losers. You won't answer that.
You have no answer.
>> So there's no reason for me to do that is your issue. See, the thing is is that you know what you know what your you know what your problem is? your lack your lack of uh your lack of believing in the Bible. You don't actually believe in the Bible. Yeah. You don't actually believe in the Bible. So, turn it to Colossians 3:12. In fact, >> you know what, Mans? Keep Keep them Keep him on M. Oh, he just Yeah, he got removed. Yeah. So, and we'll report you, too. So, your your account is probably going to get uh shut down. So, good job.
See, this is this is awesome. Yeah, this is like two Christians, two, you know, two [ __ ] So, that's what we got. All right, so let's go to Lori.
This is How's it going, Lori?
>> Real good. How's How's it going with you?
>> Oh, doing well. Doing well. Can I Are you at least 18? And uh which pronouns do you prefer people use for you?
>> I am 65 and she her.
>> She her. Okay. Um your your mic was a little muffled there. So I don't know what happened. Maybe.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm not sure.
>> Sorry. There. I'm teacup now. There. I'm better. Good.
>> Yeah.
>> Are we good now? Okay.
>> Okay. I think I can hear you. Okay. All right. All right. Which God do you believe in?
>> Well, I guess I'll tell you I'm a Christian. And I don't know how to answer which god cuz, you know, to my thinking just the one, you know, but yeah.
>> Well, to me, there's 4,000 different religions and people have, you know, thousands of different gods, so that's why I asked.
>> I know. It just it just makes sense to tell you I'm a Christian, you know.
>> Fantastic. All right.
>> Sorry, I got a phone call, but I made it go away.
>> Okay, no problem. Okay. Are you there?
What's your Yeah. Yeah, I'm here. All right, Lori. Um, what's your best evidence that God >> God >> is not evil? Yeah.
>> I am so sorry.
>> It's all right.
>> I got a I got a phone call and I but I was trying so hard to make it go away.
There. I did it there. Okay.
>> All right. Very good.
>> Okay. Well, and you want me to answer your question? Go right ahead.
>> Yeah. So my my question is what's your best evidence that God is not evil?
>> So I thought about this when I when I read your poems and I thought well do I have any? Um, and I think my best evidence is that when I am really wanting to do something evil, and usually it's when I'm mad at somebody or just really jealous or just really >> whatever, envious um then um and I want to be really evil to that person, the the prompt that I get from God is to do something really nice for them >> or just to not do with whatever it is that I'm thinking. And it's that little voice that I'm used to hearing when I hear God and I hear, "Well, why don't you pray for him?" You know, one time I found myself really jealous of a guy that I had strong feelings for. He was about to get married and I was feeling so angry about it and I was prompted to pray for their sex life.
>> Oh goodness. Well, that was that was interesting.
Yeah, it was. I mean, I just started praying.
>> You mean like a happy sex life?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, well, that's kind of you. That's kind of you.
>> Well, that that is how I experience God.
I experience him as someone who prompts me to do things that are, you know, a step beyond what I would normally want to do. Right.
>> Yeah. Okay. Well, Lori, let me let me ask you, why is it then that um God prompts you? And not to say that, you know, you sound like a lovely person, but God prompts you, but then turns around and ignores parents who whose babies are born with cancer and won't answer their prayers or babies born with Edward syndrome or anphille or le lash nayan syndrome. Yeah. Why does he ignore all those prayers?
So, so I don't know. That's those are my favorite words because I think we need to >> That's a good answer. That's a wonderful answer, >> right? And I think we all of us need to use that more often. We are all caught up in our [ __ ] certainty.
>> Okay. So, we need to start saying, you know, I don't know. Let me think about that. Or, you know, whatever. Or or when I say >> fantastic answer. Yeah.
>> You could say, hey, I never thought of it that way. You know, or whatever. You just did that a minute ago. Yeah.
>> So, um, >> okay. So, so the the first answer is I don't know. And another answer is that >> I think that we have the wrong idea of who God is and what he's there to do.
>> Okay. I think that I think that a lot of us are feeling fairly certain and I've certainly maybe been one of those people and certainly hung out with a lot of those people that God is there to a take us to heaven and b while we're here answer our prayers.
>> Okay. Gotcha. And so >> I don't I don't think that I don't I think that what Jesus came to do was to invite us into a kingdom where we do >> sure >> good things. Right. All right. So, so I think that an answer why there are children with brain diseases um in the world is that we all collectively have screwed up our priorities about where money should go.
We're paying pro- sports people way too much and not giving enough >> and not giving enough to medical causes.
um we're not giving enough to >> people in places that are starving. And I do know I'm grateful to know many, many Christian people and others, but I'm grateful to know many Christian people who are going to places that need help and they're giving them good help.
It's not just let us preach to you and we'll give you some food. It's not that at all.
>> Let me let me jump in. So, we've got this uh Bible passage from the book of John, right? The Gospel of John, chapter 14, 12-14.
And and this these are Jesus's words, right?
>> I can't read it. So, I do need you to read it to me. My eyes are bad.
>> I'll make it a little bigger.
>> It won't help.
>> We'll just if I make a screenshot, it won't help.
>> Oh, okay. Well, in that case, then Okay, I can read that. So John 14 says, "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and in fact will do greater works than these because I am going to the father.
I will do whatever you ask in my name so that the father may be glorified in the son." So let me stop right there. So when if uh you went to the hospital and to St. Jude's hospital and prayed for all the kids in the cancer ward to be healed immediately. Would that be would that glorify the father and the son?
>> Um I don't know.
>> You don't know? I >> Why not?
>> I don't know. Because it's a it's a question of thinking a little differently. I don't I would like to say and I would like it to be that if I prayed for all the kids at St. Jude's that it would glorify God. Okay.
>> But and I'm not saying that they need to suffer in order to glorify God. That's not not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there probably other things that I'm called to do. But I have, as a matter of fact, gone to the hospital and walked around praying. So, >> so you know, >> okay, well, help me out here. So, it says here, um, so why wouldn't it glorify the father and the son? So, let's maybe approach it that way. What's what's what's a reason you can think of that praying for kids at St. Jude's to get immediately healed would not glorify the father and the son?
>> Well, I think you're assuming that they would be immediately healed.
>> Well, I'm asking you why wouldn't it?
>> Why wouldn't it be that they would be immediately healed?
>> No. Why wouldn't the ch Why wouldn't praying for the children to be healed in Jesus's name glorify the father and the son?
>> Yes. I think >> why wouldn't it? Yeah. Why wouldn't it?
>> It would. I think it would. I think it would. Okay.
>> So, if you ask guarantee they're all going to get healed, though.
>> Well, it says, see, if we look at verse 14, it says, "If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it."
>> Anything.
>> So, if you ask in Jesus's name, heal all these kids who are sick right now.
>> In Jesus's name, shut down St. Jude's Hospital so there are no more patients that come here. when I prayed.
>> Yeah.
>> So that and you just said that that would glorify the father and the son.
>> So God should do that, right?
>> I I'm trying to think how to say this so it doesn't sound completely awful, but um I think that that there's a a prerequisite to he will do anything we ask. Okay. First of all, I'm not sure if it says it at the beginning of this, but it it it assumes >> there is a prerequisite. Yeah, you're right.
>> Okay. What is it?
>> It says here, the very truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and in fact will do greater works than these.
>> So, it's so the only prerequisite is you just have to believe. That's it.
>> We're essentially taking Jesus's place on the earth because he's leaving.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. and I will do whatever you ask in my name so that the father may be glorified in the son. If I'm if in my name you ask me for anything I will do it. So what I'm trying to understand uh Lori is if praying for kids at St. Jude's Hospital to get healed right now will glorify the father and the son.
What do you think the chances are that if you went and prayed at St. Jude's Hospital that they would all get healed immediately? What would you say the odds are?
>> Very low.
>> Very low. Okay. Yeah. So, so then this verse is a lie then.
>> No, let me tell you why. Because this is has to do with living with God for 50 years. Okay.
>> It's not about miracles. It is not about miracles. It's all about love. So he said, >> "So going there and praying, if I can truly go there and pray with a true heart and with real love for those kids, that glorifies God. But it's not necessarily going to be that God is going to glorify himself because he would have to do that work, right? He would have to glorify himself by healing all those kids. That wouldn't be me doing it, >> right?" Well, the the verse says, "I will do whatever you ask in my name so that the father may be glorified in the son."
>> Okay. I think that that in my name thing is important.
>> Yeah. So, if you ask in Jesus's name for all the kids at St. Jude's to be healed >> immediately and that and you did already acknowledge that would glorify the father and the son.
So, I'm kind of at a loss when you're saying, "Well, it it's very low odds that this will happen."
>> The big miracle will happen.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. You said it's it's very low odds.
So, I'm So, I'm kind of at a a loss as to So, this has to be a lie. This isn't true.
>> No, it's not a lie. It's a misunderstanding of what the mission is.
Okay.
>> The mission is to love and give of ourselves, to pray. Yes. But when he says in my name, we're basically doing it >> because he's not there to do it. Okay?
We're doing it because >> he is essentially directing us to do it.
>> Okay?
>> And we are doing it. It's like a power of attorney.
>> Okay? We have his power of attorney. But >> it's not about miracles and and dramatic healings. And it's not about that.
>> Let's go to James 5 14 and 15. Okay, >> let me read that to you. It says, "Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up, and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven." Is that true?
>> I don't know.
>> My favorite words again because I've been there. I've been in a body of believers that does that.
>> Um, are you there?
>> Yeah. And and it was often um I saw it almost as an unkindness because we >> an unkindness to pray over people.
>> Well, yeah, there was a man who was clearly dying and there, you know, we're all going to die sometime, you know, and which Oh god, there's been so many evil politicians saying those words recently.
>> Sounds pretty bad.
>> Not going to lie, that sounds pretty bad.
>> I know. But the truth is that, you know, even if you pray for me every minute of my life, I'm eventually going to die.
You know, it's going to happen. So, this man was clearly going to die. And okay, >> people were going to his bedside and putting up banners that said, and this is another scripture, you shall live and not die. I don't know what the context is, but yeah, it's from the Bible. And so, they would put up a big banner that says, you shall live and not die. And I saw him at church one Sunday and he looked so sad and I went over to him and I said, "How are you doing?" And he said said, "I'm in pain and you know it hurts." And >> yeah, >> and I said, "God, I know. I'm so sorry about that." And and he died. He did die.
>> Well, >> because he found body to die.
>> Let's look at another verse here. Mark 16 >> uh chapters Mark chapter 16 uh verses 14- 18 but I'll I'll skip to 16 because this is the important part.
>> 16 says the one who believes and is baptized are you you're a believer sounds like are you baptized?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Will be saved, but the ones who the one who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe by using my name. They will cast out demons. Have you cast out demons?
>> As a matter of fact, I believe I have.
>> Okay. They will speak in new tongues.
Have you spoken in tongues?
>> I have.
>> They will pick up snakes. Have you picked up snakes?
>> I have not.
>> Have. And if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them.
>> Nope. Not that one.
>> Haven't done that. Do you believe that's true?
>> I believe it has been true of believers at some point in history. Yes. But as a as a believer who is baptized and will be saved because it does say anyone >> the one who believes and is baptized which is you >> and these signs will accompany those who believe. That's what it says here. So you should you should be able to drink any deadly thing and it will not hurt you.
>> Do you believe that?
>> I do not believe that that is necessarily true of exactly me at exactly that moment. I think that what it said what it's saying there is um the you're going to see these things happening to believers not necessarily all believers and not necessarily all the time but you'll see these things happening and we have in fact >> I'm not seeing a condition here though that's the that's the problem I I hear what you're saying but I don't see a condition it says >> it says >> say all believers >> well it says these signs will accompany those who believe so it does it does say all believers those who believe.
>> There's two ways to read it.
>> If they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them. So those who believe, right? There are those who believe and those who don't believe, right? So that so those who believe are all believers, right?
>> To tell you that the argument you're making here has killed some cult members.
>> I hear that. But that and that and you're you're kind of making my point for me. That means this isn't true.
>> No, it means that they're using it wrong.
It has happened and it has been true of some Christian people sometimes it has happened >> but it does say those who believe that means anyone who believes those who believe because there's the believe versus not believe right >> there's no conditions attached to that I don't see any conditions >> and I think that when you when you insist that it's all believers all the time >> I'm just reading what it says >> problem >> I know and and I'm not I don't hear it the way you hear it >> okay >> I don't hear all believers all the time.
I hear these things will happen and they'll be it'll happen to Christians.
>> Let's let's let me put it like this. Let me put it like this.
>> Let's say that um have you when's the last time you flew on a plane?
>> Oh god, I don't know 2 3 years ago.
>> Okay. Okay. So, it's been fairly recently. Not it, you know, not like you've never flown on a plane. And the only reason I'm asking is you know how they do the boarding, right?
they they separate people into boarding groups, right? So, if they say um those with uh boarding passes that begin with the letter B, you may board now, does that mean some of the people who with passes with the boarding letter B or does that mean all of the people with passes that have boarding letter B on it?
>> In that case, it means all.
>> Okay. And so, why is this different?
I it's going to be difficult to convince you of it. We may have to just move on.
But I will tell you >> Well, you're just telling me it's different, but you're not telling me why. And >> it's a it's a grammatical English thing that I can't really explain, but it can mean either one.
>> Well, from from the from this is straight from the Greek, and this is, you know, this is the scholarly translation, the New Revised Standard Version, right? So, if this was So, if it was going to be some, it would say some who believe, but it doesn't say that. It says those who believe. And you acknowledged if your boarding pass has a letter B on it, and it said and if they say those with the boarding with the letter B on their boarding pass, you may board now. Right now, you now if you if they if they were letting some people through, but they held you back, they say, "Oh, wait, Lori, not you." How would you feel about that?
>> It's a very different case, but it's okay. I hear what you're saying. I really do. And I >> a different case, but you can't tell me why. Okay, >> let me tell you, let me give you another analogy. What if what if someone were to say, let's say in the 19th century they were to say, you are not going to believe what's going to happen in the future. They are going to fly in airplanes. They're going to have motorcars going over the streets with no horses attached. They are going to when they fly, they are not going to fall.
They're going to get to where they're going safely, you know. And then what happens when in the 20th century or the 21st century some of the planes fall?
Was that not an accurate statement that they made?
>> They said that people in the future will be able to fly >> will be able to fly in the sky and get to where they're going safely without falling.
>> Okay. But then some of the planes do fall and the people don't get to where they're going safely. That doesn't mean that was inaccurate what they said.
>> I don't think you I but see that's a completely different statement than what this says here because this says those who believe. So now if it says those who fly will never fall then if people fall then that wasn't a right prediction, right? But if it says >> anything definitive, it doesn't say never or always.
>> Um it says no. It says those who believe. That's the definitive.
>> That's the definitive.
>> Looking for the always. I'm looking for the always.
>> Okay. So, you're saying because it doesn't say always, then it's not always.
>> But if it's but it says but it says those who believe. So then that means then but see you haven't given me a distinction between this and boarding boarding a plane because that also doesn't say always, right? It just says those with the letter B on their boarding pass may now board. But it doesn't say always. So, >> but they do say those with and they're talking to So, the implication is >> those who have the letter B on the Yeah.
And that's what this says. Those who believe these signs will accompany those who believe.
>> So, I hear you. You just made my point for me.
>> I don't want to argue this point anymore because I'm all I'll just give you that point. What the hell?
>> All right.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Okay. Gotcha. So, now these are these aren't just the only ones, right?
There's also the passage of the mustard seed, right?
>> We have so we have we have at least half a dozen of these in in the New Testament.
>> Y >> and we have many more in the Old Testament where it says if you pray for anything you'll get it.
>> So, you know, I know the common trope is, well, God's not a genie, but actually he is. According to your Bible, he is a genie because this is what it specifically says. He says, I'll do anything you ask me to do. it. All you have to do is believe. And so that's why I'm trying to understand from your perspective.
>> Yeah.
>> If anything, if Christianity is true, see, it's just one of two things. If Christianity is true, then there should be no hospitals. There should be no sick people.
>> If it's not true or >> I would agree with that because we would have healed them all by now. We would have >> Exactly.
>> All of our money >> because all you have to do is believe, right? Yeah. All you have to do is believe.
>> So if that's the case, >> people live that way. Yeah, if that that's that's the case, right? So then if not then then that means that this is a broken promise. This is a manipulation. This is a lie and this is evil. It's either one of the two.
>> Whenever I have these conversations and we hit this point that we're at right now where we're not going to go any further, we're not going to get each other. You know, I try to look for what is the center of our disagreement. And I think that the center of our disagreement right now is this. I believe that Jesus came here to invite us to a kingdom where we can live differently and change the world by the way we live. And honestly, all of those passages that you're reading to me can be interpreted that way. And the other way of believing, and I'm not going to tell you what you believe, but the other side that I'm hearing is if we, you know, enter this contract with Jesus, you know, where we believe, then he will do all these things.
>> That's what your Bible says. I'm just reading what it says.
>> Yeah, I know. I just um this is where where our our center of disagreement is.
>> Okay.
>> So, we can leave it there.
>> All right. We can leave it. We can leave it there as far as Jesus is concerned.
So, >> do you want to go to the Old Testament and look at some more?
>> I do not because if you say Amalachite, I will slap you.
>> Oh goodness. Nope. Not going to say Amalachite.
>> Not gonna say it at all?
>> Cuz I don't know. The truth is I don't know. And I really don't know when it comes to bronze age [ __ ] Okay.
>> Okay. Well, that's fair. All right.
Well, at least you're honest. And you know what? Well, maybe we'll just part ways here, you know, on friendly terms.
But I do appreciate the conversation and I appreciate you talking to me.
>> Thank you. Same same to you.
>> Enjoy the rest of your day.
>> You too. Byebye.
>> See, that was a pleasant conversation and um didn't have to be, you know, canankerous, right? Did not have to be that. Yeah. Yeah. Terrified of the Old Testament. And I agree, Ryan. I would agree. Christians by by and large are terrified of the Old Testament, but kind person. So, we'll give her a W for that.
And yeah, in a way infuriating, but at least she did say I don't know.
And uh that was but yeah, but you know, it's a but that's but isn't that isn't that a great that's a that's a clippable moment right there? Well, it's different. If you're boarding a plane and it says those who have the letter B on their boarding pass, you may board the plane. And if she gets stopped, she said, no, that's different. Versus when it says in the Bible, those who believe will be able to drink poison.
So, it there is just no distinction there.
So, uh, all right. So, uh, we got nine minutes until our special co-host comes in. And, you know, and that's not like a hard and fast time, right? That's approximation, you know, because sometimes people, you know, it's a fashionable, it's a fashion thing, right? So, I'm cool with that.
I'm pretty chill about that. So, we'll just bring up another guest in the interim.
Eric M.
Okay, let's bring up Eric M.
>> It's like Eric M, how you doing?
>> Hello. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you pretty well. Can I get your age and pronouns, please?
>> 25. He him.
>> All right. And >> what is your pronoun?
>> He, him. Thanks for asking. He, him, his. And um looks like you're a Christian going by your avatar.
>> Uh yes. But to be honest, I completely don't know what I am just because like the stuff that you say kind of makes sense >> and I it kind of like you question my faith a lot, you know, and um but I just truly like believe that Jesus is a good person and I truly want this world to be like fruitful, you know, and full of love.
>> So that's why I believe in Jesus Christ.
>> Okay. So, you believe it because you want Jesus to be a good person?
>> Well, because I want the whole world to be uh >> Okay.
>> good.
>> And like he he like he teaches that.
>> Yeah.
>> Now I I hear that. I understand. That sounds like more like hope, right?
>> Rather than reality, >> would you say?
>> What is that background noise, by the way? Oh, I'm sorry. It's uh a garage.
>> Oh, it's in my garage right now.
>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. You're okay. Just just curious. Okay. Not a problem. So, I I hear that and yeah, I do I do tend to challenge people's beliefs, you know, because it does say up above my head, challenge minds, follow the evidence.
And so, >> I but I think that's an important thing to do, right? Because you you want to be sure what you believe is true, right?
>> Right. And and as a uh I grew up Catholic, so I kind of did leave the church for that same reason, right?
Believe, but like walking walking on water, >> you know, like although like like or casting out demons, like to me that sounded like impossible, >> but like if there was a true God, they could do whatever they want or like if they're like good enough and holy like they could be blessed to do good or like >> you know what I mean? So like I don't know. I kind of just believe in that way where like if you're really good then you'll be blessed >> and no I genuinely think Jesus was sinless like he had no sin >> and he died for hours.
>> Okay. Now you believe Jesus is God right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. And they're the same. So it's the same God, right? Not a not a different God. The same God.
>> And same.
>> Okay. Gotcha. And so are when we look at like things in the Old Testament, right? Um this is one that uh the previous guest didn't really want to touch. So maybe maybe maybe we can get your thoughts on it. Um you would say then that the it's the same God in the Old Testament that is in the New Testament, right?
>> Uh yes, I think so.
>> Okay. So, we've got Deuteronomy 28:63, and it says, "Just as the Lord took delight in making you prosperous and numerous, so the Lord will take delight in bringing you to ruin and destruction."
So, would you say that that is the words of an evil god or a good God?
>> Uh, good God. But like I could see why you say it's evil cuz like you're destroying the world, but like if the world was full of sin, it's not good for the earth. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah.
>> Like you would want to exterminate that like basically like >> Now, have you have you played like I don't know like the Sims or Sim City or anything like that?
I don't know if he heard me. Did you hear me, Eric? Yes. Uh I've never played that game though.
>> Okay. So like there's like a me or have you ever played a video game and you were coming along and then you just restarted the game, right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So you can, you know, so if you restart the game, right? Um you know, now it's it's because you don't know what was going to happen, right? And then you messed up a level and then you had to restart, right? And then now you know what's going to happen and then you complete the level. That's usually what happens.
We turned off your mic by the way, Eric, because just because of the background noise.
So you just unmute yourself when you're ready to talk.
>> Yeah.
>> But um is there any way you could maybe move to a different spot like away from that noise?
I mean, if you got to work, that's that's fine. Then I'll drop you and let you get back to work, but just it's hard to have a conversation with you when we have all this noise.
>> Oh, it's okay. You can just drop me. I'm sorry. I am working right now.
>> Okay. Yeah, no problem. All right. Well, yeah, try and come back when you're not working. All right. Thanks, Eric.
>> I'm good.
>> All right. So, yeah, had to uh had to drop that. That was getting that was getting a little unbearable.
So, that was pretty unbearable. The whole chat has our skin crawling.
Yeah, it did kind of sound like driving in the rain, but yeah, those air tools, man, that was something else. So, yeah.
So, um here we'll wait a few minutes and um actually, yeah. Yeah, we'll wait a few minutes because uh we can take the next guest as co-hosts.
Sounded like bats flying or static.
Yeah, it sounded like like you know like uh driving in the rain. I I heard you know that that kind of sound like that.
Um yeah, she's supposed to be here. She said she'd be here at 5:00 Eastern time.
So here in a couple minutes.
And so this is an interesting topic, you know, like I have to like I run this every once in a while because you get your crash outs. So we've gotten our crash outs. We've gotten some we've gotten some uh we've gotten some uh crash outs in the t in the chat. So, you know, sound like a lightsabers's rippling through tinfoil, but um but yeah, that that uh that didn't that didn't sound good. Who hurt you? Uh nobody that made me go away from God.
It wasn't because of Yeah, it's funny because they just like Christians just run to church hurt. They run straight to church hurt. You know, people leave for a lot of reasons, right? Mostly because the shit's not true.
Oh, we have a mind readader.
We have a mind readader. So, just because I'm talking about your god in a bad way, I must be hurt. Oh, look who's here.
Let's bring him up.
Let's bring her up.
Yay.
So, if you are waiting to if you want to talk um some rules that I have, you have to be at least 18 believer in the God of the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, and please have evidence ready that your God is not evil.
So, that's what we're looking for today.
Uh not big on preaching, okay? Not big on, hey, I just have a take on this. Um, we want to hear evidence.
Says above my head, follow the evidence, challenge minds. So, that's what we're looking for.
God is your consciousness and Jesus is the son of God. That is a claim. What evidence do we have of that? And how does that make God not evil?
So, that's what we're that's what we're talking about today.
All right.
So, she may not be quite ready yet, but that's cool. I'm watching the guest queue. So, born again. Just join when you're ready.
I like the blind story. Yeah, it's a good one.
But, uh, yeah.
Oh, look at them GL. Look at that. Look at that. Very cool. Yeah. You know, I have to say I have to find a way for YouTube to see all the graphics on the Tik Tok side. That would be cool. Um because can't really see it from this side, but I don't know.
I want to send my favorite hat. Yeah.
Well, you know what? Save up for the co-host, too. Co-host.
Pestilence tapeworms. Random baby death proves he's stupid, not evil.
um could be both. How do we know it's not a little of both? How do we know it's one or the other?
And then if it and then if it's a stupid god, then we shouldn't worship this god. Oh, that's a cool one. I don't even know what that is. What is that? DJ glasses.
No. Hartthood. Heart. Cool.
All right. Here we go.
What is up?
>> Hello. Hello. How's it going?
>> Hey, doing great. Hey, man. I'm so glad you're here. This is awesome.
>> Thank you for having me up. I love your channel and I love everybody in the chat. You guys are awesome.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know anyone who's not following you, but if y'all if any of you are out there not following Born Again atheists, you really really need to because you're missing out on some fantastic kick-ass content. Like >> if if they're not following me, if they're not following they they're not following me, they probably have a normal sleep schedule. So, we're not gonna get too upset about that.
>> Hey, I have a pretty normal sleep schedule and I managed to catch you. So, >> that's crazy. That's crazy. You're like the triple night shift.
>> I I am I'm like I'm like, you know, cuz I'm an old guy, you know? I'm like dinner at 4. You know what I mean?
>> I still managed to catch a piece of you, so you know.
>> Oh, well, that's fantastic. Thank you so much for having me.
>> It could be done and it's so it's so great you're here. It's so great you're here. So I did a little special. You like the horns?
>> I love it. I saw that. I Oh my god.
Those are the exact ones I wear, too.
>> Are you serious?
>> Those are the ones.
>> 4.99 on Amazon. I mean, >> yes. Unfortunately, they're the only plays.
>> Yeah. Crystal Raid, thank you, Raiders.
Appreciate y'all being here.
>> Oh, welcome in, Raiders. Uh, I love the horns. I'm so excited to be here. And most importantly, other than hanging out with you, very excited to wreck some mogs today. What an early time to get to go crazy on that.
>> Get you started, huh? Get you get you warmed up for my little pregam.
>> Yeah, a little pregame. There you go.
Little little uh Yeah. Yeah. A little pregame out in the parking lot before you actually. Right on.
>> Yes. I'm so excited.
>> All right. Well, we got a returning guest, Dru. Um, can't quite remember what we talked about, but it was probably on the God is real bend. So, you know, this will be a little bit different, but let's let's bring them up and let's see what happens. Huh.
>> Perfect.
>> All right. Druuth, how you doing?
>> Peace. Peace. I'm grateful. How you doing, brother?
>> Doing doing well. Doing well. This is my friend, born again atheist. And >> he's born again. How you doing?
>> All right.
>> I'm also doing well.
>> Good. Good to hear.
>> All right. So, are you still a still uh go by the pronouns he him and are you still a Christian?
>> Uh uh we us.
>> We us. Okay. We us. Okay. Thank you for that. Sorry. So sorry. I thought you were he, him. Okay. We us.
>> No worries.
>> All right.
And uh >> I'm a collective. I'm not I'm not an individual. I'm a >> That's cool. Collectives are all good, man. Collectives are good. Right on, man. And Okay. So, I'm not going to go on. I'm not going to assume your your belief. So, which God do you believe in?
Remind me.
>> Uh, I I I believe in the a mind, so to say, as you refer.
>> A mind. Okay. A mind that created the universe. There we go. Okay. All right.
Okay. So, we we're we're switching it up a little bit today. We're going to talk about whether or not this God that you believe in is evil. So, what's your best evidence that this God is not evil?
>> Um, I think the the creator of all exemplifies itself in both good and evil. Um, one example that I could make would be the ocean. The ocean could be good to swim in, could be good to lounge on the beach, it could be seen in a positive way. But if you're in the middle of the ocean and those waves are coming and falling on your ship, like the Titanic, it could tear something up and cause complete havoc. Um, the sun could be good. It can enlighten us. It can grow things, but it can completely burn something to a crisp. So it has a dual nature in that aspect.
>> Sure. Yeah. And so then are you saying that this is just neutral?
>> Well, neutral in totality but neutral would imply polarity that it has the ability to express itself not only in one way but in all ways which would be positive and negative. And if we look at that um that is also expressed a lot of different ways. is also expressed energetically. Um so when we talk about polarity and energy all energy is negative. Well obviously you have a a proton which is a positive atom right a positively charged atom. You also have a electron which is a negatively charged atom and then you have a neutron. You don't just have one. You always have these things occurring simultaneously and they actually all interact with each other to create matter.
>> Here, let me let me jump in real quick because we're we're kind of drifting away from >> like the topic here. Yeah, we're getting into like protons and neutrons and we're getting away from like whether or not this God is evil. So, how does that support or refute or whatever? Like how does that provide evidence that God is not evil? Well, I'm not saying that that Well, again, well, I'm not going to say that the creator is not exemplified in evil, even if we tie it in biblically because I do study biblical references well too. And I do f I do believe in the spirit of Christ. Um, and if you look at the Old Testament specifically, the the the God of the Old Testament was very evil seemingly, you know, it it was passages where it said, "Go out there and when they went to war with another town, they didn't just kill the I'm sorry, unal alive the men or or the people they were at war with, they unalived everything, men, women, and children." So, it it was a very um evil nature that they associated with with God. uh a authoritarian a do a dominant god that wanted to destroy everything like it was it was pure wrath. You they had to sacrifice and mutilate innocent animals and splash blood. That to me is what I would classify as evil. Right.
>> I'm with you.
>> Not much I can add to that.
>> Yeah. I think I read >> because I I was I was reading it for like go ahead. Born again. You were saying something.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that guy sucks ass, but you know, your God doesn't sound too charming either. I mean, you literally said >> God makes the ocean that literally destroys towns in hours. So, I mean, how is that God any nicer? Now, listen, the Amalachite stuff that sucked for them, but I'm not an Amalachite, but I could be somebody from Florida or, you know, New Orleans or somewhere where weather completely trucks my house. How is your God any better? You know, I'm not an Amalachite. So, you know, those babies, sorry. Uh, but I'm not an Amalachite.
What about the God that you serve that just like causes destruction in everyday life? It sounds like >> Yeah, absolutely. So, destruction is is absolutely a possibility and a reality in our existence. But it has to be a reality and a possibility. If we want the opposite reality of actually enjoying life or experiencing positively, there has to be a negative aspect that exists to be able to have a neutral or a balanced universe as well, too. You're >> made I bet you're really good at meeting a word count for a college paper. You say a lot of stuff. Not a lot of it has a lot of meat to it, but you're really good at meeting the word count. I got to give you that. Okay. So, this guy that creates everything, what's he doing that's so good? because to me it doesn't seem like he's the answer prayer kind of guy. Seems like he's the I made you guys and good luck kind of guy. Is that right?
>> Well, there's a lot of good. Um, have you have you ever grown fruits or vegetables or or planted any type of garden?
>> Um, yeah. I mean, I tried once, but we don't have to know how that turned out.
>> Okay. Well, >> we don't want to talk about that. Yeah, >> we don't have to talk about how that ended up.
>> Yeah, that that's no worries. I I have a lot of friends that are into botany and into growing different things and I know people who grow things right on their own land and they picked this and they're able to sustain their family and be able to live off of that. So I think that's a very good thing to be able to have that. We also live in these homes where we are able to access water even when we're far away from it as well.
>> Okay. So how does this tie into God?
Just curious. Well, the question is if if is God is evil. And I also said the create the creator or the creation in itself has the aspect to embody evil and good because it's a balanced creation.
Everything equates back to balance which we see all throughout creation.
>> All right. I got to I got a way we can explore this. Let me let me try from this angle. So, >> perfect. Would you say then that um a let's just say you have a uh you're going to to your family cookout and you got an uncle there who has um you know he's he's a balanced uncle, right? He's cool to you. He's cool to all his nephews and nieces, you know, all the kids. Um but he on an equal level, he tortures kids in his basement. Is that a good uncle or a bad uncle?
Well, that's balance >> to me, >> right? There's a balance there. To me, he's good. If I don't know that he do those things, it's out of my perspective of him doing those or being that kind of person. Right.
>> What does knowledge have to do with him being good or evil?
>> Well, awareness. If I'm not aware that he does those things, then I don't know that that's a part of who he is. Right.
>> Right. But I mean, but we're talking about his nature, not whether you know he's good or evil. We're actually talking about whether he is good or evil. Well, we're talking about Yeah, absolutely. So, if we're talking about balance, I don't think that would be balanced because being nice to your nieces and nephews and then torturing children, I don't think that's equal um in that aspect because I think the negative outweighs the good that you're doing.
>> What's the minimum? And would you say, D, what's the minimum number of children your uncle would have to torture for it to be balanced?
>> Zero. If you if he was >> Okay, so if it's zero Well, hold on a second. Hold on. Let me let me kind of let me kind of run with this for a second. You're let me go ahead rock with me for a second. So, if it's zero for this uncle, right? That's the minimum number of children he needs to torture to to balance out all the kids that he's good to. So, that doesn't really fly with what you just said about, you know, uh you know, born again saying, you know, oceans taking out coastal cities and things like that. So, it's possible then we could have a balanced universe with no evil in it, right?
>> No, cuz then it wouldn't be polarity.
Balance implies polarity. Would you would you say not?
>> Well, not according to the uncle.
Because if we're talking because then if balance implies polarity, then that means there is a minimum number like I don't know one two kids that he can torture that would he would still be he would be balanced out.
Yeah, I think one or two would probably balance it out.
>> One or two? You think so?
>> Hey, I know, man.
>> I mean, whatever you put on it, but I I just I just mean the ability to do bad and the ability to do good. So now, maybe he doesn't real quick. Maybe he doesn't torture kids, but maybe he's nice to to to me and to other people, to but to my mom or his or his brothers or somebody else he may be very angry and mean and and stern to. So he's going to show me compassion, but he's going to show them a different side of him that he doesn't show me. So in that nature, he would be balanced because he's not always nice to everybody, but he also has a opposite side that he expresses and that doesn't have to be in the form of torture person.
>> Well, the the polarity is torture versus not torture, right? So he could So what if he's So are you saying then that he could be nice to some, not nice to others, and that balances it out?
>> Yeah. So what's what's the symmetry breaker here? Because if we're you know cuz yeah I went to an extreme torture versus not torture but if but if we're talking about like cuz that seems like a lesser scale you know like like evil on a lesser scale so to speak. So what what's the you know what what what kind of what kind of measurement are we doing here?
you know.
>> So, so, so, so, so where does uh torture come into balance at? One, one funny, I guess, example I could probably make off the top of my head would be if someone was out here torturing and often uh pedos or people who are or like people >> Yeah. P3O's people who are like super super wicked. what he's doing in a sense is bad because he's he's uh unaliviving or to or torturing people, but it could be a positive aspect if people feel like he's doing something that's beneficial for humanity by doing it to these kind of people. So, funny enough, it could be a balance somewhere in there and it is people the homes destroyed in the hurricanes. Uh oh, I Okay, I hear you. Uh what's the best thing about getting everybody's town destroyed and lives lost?
What's the best thing about a town being destroyed or a life loss?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. You know, the balance, the good, the good in it.
>> H Let's take a look at that. What could be a good thing like about >> Jesus Christ.
>> I I mean, cuz again, everything >> hospitals destroyed.
>> It's pretty It's pretty apparent to me.
I mean, >> but Go ahead, D. uh that it's not that it's not good. There is no balance to that.
>> Well, a a new better civilization could come from that that that event and then maybe the new the new the new civilization.
>> Oh, dear dear devil. Jesus Christ.
>> Right. But the new civilization that's built, then they'll refine it and figure out how to build a dam or come up with an idea to make sure that the flood does not affect them in the same way. So, they'll learn from that mistake.
>> He acts like we don't live in the United States where the government doesn't give a flying [ __ ] about its people. Yeah, it's not about you. You remember those videos from Hurricane Katrina? Yeah. You remember those videos? Do you ever see you remember seeing those?
>> I know.
A lot of those people came to Georgia and um moved because of Hurricane Katrina >> and they never went back. They lost their homes.
>> Some people went back a while later.
>> Some did, but a lot didn't. I mean, >> I know I know somebody who got um a a quarter of a million uh check in and in insurance, but there were a lot who didn't.
>> That's true. But I know somebody who was pretty happy that their house was gone and they was like, I just came up.
>> That's an individual. But but but back to what born again saying, but if if we're going to take what you're saying, born again, we might as well just start leveling towns once we kind of like figure out how to build new houses and >> better people. I mean, yeah, let's just level town. Funny, trust, he said the God of the Bible sucks, but when God God said the same thing. He said, "I'm going to wreck all these people and I'm just going to I'm just going to do a doover."
>> Guest, how can you think God sucks when you just literally verbatim quoted his verse?
Well, when I was talking about the Old Testament specifically, well, I think that's why the Bible shows the the same thing as far as uh balance because like I mentioned in the Old Testament, it was a lot of that gruesome malice type behavior and they really associated that with being from God. That was their understanding. They said God was talking to them and God told them to do these things. I'm not going to say whether God told them or not, but that came into their consciousness into their awareness that that was their relationship with the creator enough for them to share it for time and time again. Right? So, the balance comes in because out of all of that negativity, if if if you have read obviously the Bible or the or the Old Testament, >> we've read it.
>> Trust us, we've read it.
>> Yeah. So, so they thought that was the way they had to do everything. So to counteract that, it had to be a positive established to be able to balance it out. And that's why Christ came to show them this is the positive love, radical acceptance, loving your neighbor like you love yourself. Everything that's the opposite of what you guys have been doing.
>> Help me out here.
>> Help me out here. Sorry, I I just got to jump in here. Help me out here.
>> So what is the moral principle that this that this balance that you're talking about follows?
>> Say ask that one more time. What moral principle does does this balancing act thing that you're talking about follow?
>> Free will.
>> Free will.
>> Yes.
>> So God has to So hold up. So God has to uh God has to balance things out in order to to uh satisfy free will.
>> Well, to to express polarity for creation to exist. So God being against people's free will to enact um free will.
>> Well well negative negativity and positivity and positivity it it expresses itself biologically.
>> Sorry I got to cut in. Born again I had to make you big on YouTube because we got the matching horns. So I just that's why you see yourself twice. You know what I mean? Yeah. So >> Oh sick. That's awesome. Yeah.
>> I see myself once but Hello YouTube.
>> Okay. Okay. But yeah, they see it. They see it big on YouTube. So, >> all right. Go ahead, D. You were saying, >> well, to go into this point a little bit, let me ask you, Trust, personally, do you feel like there are seemingly um negative attributes about yourself that you possibly don't like or right? Is there also counter uh counteractive uh positive things about yourself that you feel like you possess?
>> Counteractive, of course. Yeah.
>> All right. So, so um morally you possess negative and positivity. Um if we look at electro uh like a battery, they express negative and positive. They're not two separate things. They go hand in hand.
>> Yeah. But but the but the difference though is that um way more often than not, at least I hope so, I I strive to make the right decision. I strive to try to do the right thing. Right.
>> Absolutely. But sometime somebody out there who does negative more than you do positive. So that's why I'm asking you for that's why I asked you what the moral principle is for this balancing act. So like what moral principle then is is your god following when a town gets leveled by a hurricane?
>> Well what moral well creation in itself creation is negative and positive. So so for something >> wait how does that have a moral principle though? You know what a moral principle is right D?
>> Well elaborate what you mean by moral principle. moral principle is something like uh the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Keep your promises. That's a moral principle, right? You agree with that, right? So, what moral principle is is your god following when he lets a hurricane just take out a city >> and displace hundreds of thousands of people.
>> So, the opposite of creation is destruction. So, for creation to exist, destruction has to exist. So that form of destruction gives way for new life to be to be brought brought about.
>> You said you don't like the Old Testament God. That's OT god [ __ ] >> Well, I'm not talking about I'm not talking about old I'm I'm talking about exist.
>> I mean I mean that's verbatim. That is verbatim. Genesis 6:6 or Genesis 6:7.
He's literally like >> show >> I regret I made them. I'm going to wipe them off the face of the [ __ ] earth.
That's what you just said. You said who cares about all those people? God that God God is going to make better people.
>> So you so you are kind of a Christian a little bit.
>> Well, I'm I'm talking about natural occurrence. Biblically, when they say when they say God >> What do you mean? But we're right now we're blaming your God for hurricanes, >> right? But again, biblically, >> do you blame your God? I don't care about your stance on Christianity. Um, how do you do you think your God's responsible for natural disasters?
>> Yeah, I think the creator is responsible for for everything. Then don't call it natural occurrences if you think God is doing it. That's a that's a God thing.
That's God magic.
>> Well, he allows it to happen naturally just like he allows us to express positivity.
>> So then God doesn't cause hurricanes.
>> Say that again.
>> Does God cause hurricanes or does he just do hands off the wheel?
>> He created He created it and he does hands off the wheel.
>> No. Oh my god. He created what?
everything that is >> so why would he create what's the purpose including the possibility for hurricanes after >> you know what I I would buy into this narrative no baby I would buy into this narrative if this got like if I was God maybe I shouldn't say that I would buy into this narrative if God only targeted billionaires estates >> why would No >> like only where only billionaires were hanging out if he like only targeted like Epstein's Islands when there's no victims on or attacked billionaires with with tornadoes or hurricanes, then it would make sense. But like the fact that he just made it and it's just kind of random and it's the luck of the draw wherever you know you happen to live at the time, that doesn't make any sense to me. What What would be the purpose of that?
>> Well, Matthew 5 says, "God causes a son."
>> You're not a Christian, so why are you quoting verses? Well, again, I do I do follow the spirit of Christ. That I I did I did reference that. Did I Did I not reference that? I believe in the spirit of Christ.
>> Well, see, now this is sounding kind of like a picking like a Build-a-Bear God that you kind of >> Yeah, you're a Builder. What?
>> Yeah, >> you're a Christ follower. You're a Christ freak. I'm confused.
>> A a Christ freak. That is is pretty funny. But again, I see Christ again as a as a spirit of love, a spirit of unity, just like the devil or dvail would be the spirit of confusion, the spirit of disaster and separation. But these things go.
>> I do apologize. I was not listening. I had no idea he was Jesus follower. Where did I miss that?
>> Oh, he said the spirit of Jesus. Yeah, it was like way in the beginning. He said he was spirit of Jesus. Yeah.
>> But but again, the reason I said it it because >> that's why I called it like a Build-a-Bear God. Yeah. because you're like picking and choosing like the parts you like about the god and you've kind of reconstructed this god >> like you just kind of pulled out all the ones all the things you don't like.
>> No, absolutely.
>> Christian then absolutely but if you're a Christian the god of the Old Testament who's an ass is the god you're worshiping in the afterlife. So I don't know like >> what yeah >> this is why they think you're a Christian because you were [ __ ] on the go >> on that one. Yeah it sounds like this sounds like the Christian God but you just don't want to call it the Christian God.
>> Well I'm talking about a b a balanced creation. And so again, it express it's expressed negatively like the Old Testament and positively like the New Testament because that gives us a choice whether we want to take the negative or destructive path or if we want to take the positive path outside of us since we have a conscience to make that choice.
Oceans don't get the choice if they want to be negative and positive. They just the the rain is what what it does. It does what it does.
>> Since you're a mog, I didn't know you were a Christian. Since you're a mo What's a mog?
>> A man of God.
>> Okay.
Since you're a mug there, there are so many verses that say God controls the winds and the waves. It does not say he made them in the creation story and anything else happens after that is climate change. It says I control the winds and the waves. We literally have a whole entire story. It's not that cool.
Where Jesus and all his little uh sailors, all his seammen were floating on a boat and all of them were like, "Oh [ __ ] we're going to freaking un alive.
like we're about to get toasted by this freaking wave. Jesus is sleeping, pretending he's asleep to kind of troll them. And then all of a sudden, they prayed and they're crying and they're hugging each other thinking they're going to die and then boom, he calms the seas. We know he is directly even Jesus directly responsible for weather patterns. So for you to say, "Oh man, he has nothing to do with it now," uh is incorrect. If you are a Christian, >> it's true. It's true. Well, everybody perspective, even um inside Christianity with all the different denominations, they have a different interpretation of the way that the creator expresses himself. But but if you can just again, let me make the point of why it doesn't just happen to what we perceive to be bad people and good things don't just happen to good people. The rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Just because you're a good person and it's raining, since you're good, the rain is not going to fall on you. Are you blaming God for when he does hurricanes? I I just I feel like you love to meet the word count, but you're not really putting substance in anything you're saying.
>> Well, again, I I believe that we have the ability and the creation has the ability to express itself in different ways and that's both in negative and positive. So, of course, a hurricane or a natural disaster or something like that would be seemingly negative, >> but there are also positive aspects that the creation embodies as well.
>> Yeah. But see, here's the thing though.
Even though, yeah, I I I get what you're saying about the whole, you know, express yourself in positive and negative ways, but see, here's the thing, D. I don't go out of my way to like kick puppies. You know what I mean?
Like, >> you don't, but I >> to express myself. I don't do that. But that's not how I roll. And a lot of people don't roll that way. Like, I don't ex I don't like I don't have this like Yeah, I have my bad days, right?
Just like everybody else. Like I'll get upset and I'll be in a bad mood and you know I may snap at people or something like that. Yeah, of course. Like if I hadn't had my coffee in the morning.
Yeah. You know, I'm not in I'm not in the greatest of moods. You know what I mean? But but it just seems like But see this is that's not really intent, right?
Like I don't need to >> uh me snapping at somebody. It's not really intent.
>> You don't intentionally snap on people?
>> No, I don't intentionally do that. I don't intentionally Yeah. I don't flash on people like that, right? But let me ask you, >> it just seems like though, well, hold on, hold on. Let me let me let me land the plane here.
>> It seems like though that the God that you're telling us about does do these does these things intentionally, right?
He's not accidentally like, "Oh, my bad.
This hurricane wiped out, you know, the Florida coast. Oops. Oh, I was just expressing myself. I didn't mean to do that." You know, little Steve Urkel. Did I do that? No, it's not like that. It's like what the what you're painting to us is that he's doing this on purpose, right? And so if he's doing this so like if I went out of my way to talk bad to people, you know, because I needed to express myself, that's a whole different story than just having a bad because I haven't had any coffee yet, right? And then and and 99 times out of 100, if even more, I will turn around and say, "You know what? My bad. I'm sorry.
Didn't mean to do that." Right? But we but from your God that you're telling us about, we don't even get that. We don't even get him. My bad. I'm sorry. We don't get anything like that. It's just Oh, well, it's just me expressing myself. So, you know, 500,000 of you in New Orleans had to go had to go to Georgia, >> right? Right.
>> Oh, well, I mean, you you see what I mean that. So, >> Abs, absolutely.
>> How's this? Yeah. So that I mean and if we kind of take this all the way back to you know this uncle who is torturing kids in the basement but is nice to everybody else.
>> I mean he's doing this intentionally.
Yeah. We cannot call this uncle good and we can't even call him neutral. He's a bad uncle.
>> So >> abs I'll even the guy you're telling us about is pretty is pretty evil.
>> Well well actually I I'll even agree with you on that. Let let's go into that with a little bit of context. Right. So, so I know people who are super angelic. They have an angelic essence.
Like you said, they go out of their way to be very nice and very sweet to everybody that they can. Even when they get mad and get triggered, they still responded to it calmly, nicely, very light-bodied, heavenly type people, you know, regardless of the situation. And then you have someone who may be a little bit more neutral like yourself.
You have your good days, you have your bad days. Sometimes you doing good, you don't do bad intentionally, but sometimes you you have times where you spaz out on people or you react to whatever the situation may come. It happens, right? And then on the and then and then on the opposite end of that, there are the Epstein or the the very or the Jeffrey Dmers or the very >> or gods >> or gods.
>> Yeah. Basically, right, the the the hurricane equivalent of a human being, right?
>> Jesus of the world. Mhm. The hur the hurricane equivalent who come and wipe people out and mask, right? So the even in our human consciousness, we are not just the Epstein or the the the the bad or the negative, but we're also not just the heavenly. We have the choice to be able to be either one of those. So while you don't consciously go out of your way to do that, there are very malice human beings who intentionally go out of their way to do the most rash things that you will never even fathom. That hold on one second. Let me let me land. Could I land real quick?
>> Land. No. No. Absolutely not.
>> That is a form of the creator as well too. Expressing himself through those individuals just like he expresses himself through the angelic people. And he is so evil through you.
>> Yeah. So God's evil. It's got to be.
>> Oh, okay. Well, there actually, you know, I'm glad I let you landed. Um, yeah. God's evilism.
>> Uh, how would you how would you like how would you like to join the deconstruction community?
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> seems like you're you're you're in the process of deconstructing. So, uh we also think God's evil over here.
>> Yeah, that was that was my first step was when going from Christian to deist.
That was my first step.
>> Well, I I I see balance and I need I see neutrality throughout the creation. So, I don't >> It's not balance though because if it is if the uncle >> unal alive two people and you said he needs to unal alive zero to be a good uncle, then God needs to have a zero body count to be a good God. I mean, we're going off of your example of what makes a good uncle and a bad uncle. Why can't you apply that to God >> and Epstein? That was the other example.
>> Right. So, so there are good uncles and there are bad there are good uncles and there are bad uncles.
>> Nobody. No, that's not what we're saying. So, you're doing this thing again where you just kind of >> Are you in an echoey room? Do you like just to hear the sound of your voice kind of bounce off the walls?
>> Maybe you don't get what I'm saying.
Just because one person is bad doesn't mean it's actually a talent. you should definitely >> well, >> you know, pursue writing um in that way.
But >> is is if one person is bad, is everybody bad?
>> But that's not once again you're saying that's not what we're saying, >> right? But again, you you're saying if my uncle is one way, then all uncles are that way. That's >> You know what's funny, Trust? We can't even use like analogies because Christians are so they just can't think out. They can't think outside of >> outside that box. Yeah. It's really hard.
They literally couldn't they couldn't they couldn't figure out why we're making the connection. It's okay, baby.
I know.
>> See so I think that Yeah. And see where I'm going to I'm going to pick up what what Bee's putting down. So D, what what be saying here is that um is that you're you're you're at you're saying that, you know, God is like if it's if it's one uncle that's bad, not all uncles are bad, but we're comparing this God that you're telling us about to one uncle.
You see what I'm saying? That's what we're doing. And we're comparing it to one uncle and this and you already acknowledged if that uncle tortures more than one child. The bal it's there's no balance there.
>> He's bad.
>> So just the same. So then you have demonstrated to us that you're the god that you believe in is evil because that mean because like be said the body count's way too high. You know what I mean? It's just way too high. The damage, destruction. Do you feel like the bad done in the world outweighs the good in the world? Let me ask you that.
Do you feel like >> what good? What good?
>> What good? Really? Is that the question?
What good?
>> Yes. What good? Cuz like who gives a fly? Who gives a flying [ __ ] that like people smile at a birthday party when everybody is sitting there going, "Oh my god, I'm working three jobs. I'm sick. I can't afford rent. Our world is being rammed by the most nefarious individuals on planet Earth." Exactly. You literally didn't do anything about it. And on top of that, >> yeah, someone let me in, you know, when I got my turn signal. It's not going to make up for any of that [ __ ] >> Yeah, exactly. Oh my god. You know, somebody told me that Jesus died for me today, you know, like who cares? Like really hard and >> and we're in a first world country and if our life sucks this bad, you know, what is what could the experience for other people who don't have electricity?
What could that look like? So like I don't know what you're talking about.
like the good outweighs the bad. Here's the thing for sure.
>> Trust trust example is fantastic. I I I that's a great example. I always use if Jeffrey Dmer or um let's just use Ted Bundy, 45 plus victims, girls and women.
If he we know his track history, he shured, graded a bunch of little girls and women and then, you know, put him to jail, whatever. If we figured out that every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, he volunteered his free time at the nursing home or at the food pantry because he genuinely loved doing charity work on the weekends, would that be balanced?
Like, would he all of all of a sudden be a good person? And you would probably say, "No, he wouldn't be a good person even though he's doing good things."
This is what we're saying when we bring up these examples.
>> Yeah, this is what we're saying. So, >> I I understand that. But for every devil No, he hold on trust. Watch this. Let's let's bet. Let's let's let's He's going to say I understand this butt and then the next sentence is going to be something that we are not even talking about.
>> Well, it's the definitely what we talking about. For every devil that you meet, there is a Jesus or a godly person or a positive person for every negative that you meet.
>> So, this is what I'm saying. So, uh >> you called.
>> Okay. What do I get? I get I get an espresso. Okay.
>> You get an espresso.
>> We're using Ted Bundy. We're not saying God created Ted Bundy. We're saying God is Ted Bundy. We're using We He used the uncle is God in his example.
>> My example is Ted Bundy.
>> Yeah.
>> But there's an opposite person of Ted Bundy as well too. There's a person who who is opposite of that individual.
>> We're not talking about that opposite person. Yeah.
>> We're not talking about God making bad people. We're talking about God being Ted Bundy in this >> abs. I agree with you already. God does itself. You're very you're very confused.
>> Well, I I agree that God express himself through evil, through negative, through disaster, just like he expresses himself through love, through unity, through creation. These are two relationships that coexist. My question is these relationships coexist.
>> The relationship between negative and positive are mutual. We have to see that.
>> Before now, before you dip, D, because um they they voted you off. But um before you dip, yeah, before you dip, just let's just address uh Bee's question.
>> Um say your question again and then let's let's give D one more chance to address it.
>> Could Ted Bundy be good and bad if we figured out that he devoted a lot of his free time to charity?
>> Yes, he has good and bad aspects and totality.
>> Okay. Well, hallelujah. Glory to God.
Okay. He is more bad than good, but he has good and bad aspect.
Okay. Hallelujah.
>> All right.
>> Just make sure you're good to balance out the evil. I truly and I appreciate you for making space for me. Y'all have a blessed day.
>> Have a good day, D.
>> Yeah, that was that was a flip. That was a total flip. Oh, by the way, I'll uh I'll send you a copy of this vid if you want to clip it or whatever if you want to use it.
>> So much fun.
>> Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, that was cuz So, okay, so the the flip-flops that we got were um first, no, this uncle, if he even tortures one kid, he's uh >> he's not good. Yeah, he's bad. But boy, there was like special pleading all over the place on that one.
>> Special pleading.
>> Left and right. Left and right.
>> That's so funny. uh that he must have a bad relationship with his uncle and maybe he doesn't know too much about Ted Bundy because why was he like you know [ __ ] that [ __ ] my uncle but like with Ted Bundy he goes you know what not not bad you know charity is a good thing >> so mental note to uh any serial unalivers there potentially if um if you do have a body count just uh spend some time at the SPCA in the weekends you know cleaning out >> and what deal >> you can we can win the heart of the public back it's not you can be forgiven >> exactly and Dagaba Dave, thanks for the $5 super chat. Did the prayer we all said for your 2020 vision work yet? Hell no, it did not. I'm still blind as a bat. My glasses are somewhere. I lost them. Oh, there they are. Yeah, I'm still I'm still blind as a bat. Yeah, somebody prayed for me for my vision to heal and it didn't.
>> You read the You read the message, so I don't know. Don't Don't throw it out yet.
>> That's only because I need my glasses off to read. Yeah, that's why.
But if I just look in the distance at my wife's pictures. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see them now, but from here, yeah, it's all a blur. So, didn't work.
>> Damn.
>> Yeah. That's okay. That's okay. But, uh, you know, as long as Christians have my permission, which is not often, they can pray and we can still continue doing this. Maybe one day it'll work. Maybe we'll we'll >> Oh, guys, don't uh don't don't forget the thoughts, though. Make sure when you're praying, we also have thoughts as well. Um, I I heard that combination works very well. Um, >> we don't actually know if it works well, but I know a lot of people do it, so we can try that.
>> Absolutely. Oh, goodness. Abu Muhammad is back in my queue. I'm not sure you're going to get back up. Now, I got to tell you a little story. Born again. So, we had a guy in our in my live yesterday who said he was a uh he was a scientist and then I asked him some sciency things and he couldn't really answer like the questions. And so, >> Oh, >> yeah. So we we were very suspicious about him being a scientist. So >> I think that people just you know like to really use words a lot >> I think.
But you know, but you know, I I don't know if you've talked to scientists before. You probably have, but every time I've talked to a scientist or some like an academic, >> it's like they use very big words, right? Academicy words and they put things in and they keep especially if they're like >> PhD candidates, PhD level, because they love talking about their work because not a whole maybe not a whole lot of people outside of their sphere ask them about stuff and then they just go on, right? They they have great stuff to say >> and there was none of that. There was just none of that. So, it was just it was very sus. Yeah, it was very sus. So, >> all right, let's bring up breaking down Christ.
Um >> Oh, nice.
>> Yeah. How's it going? Breaking down Christ?
>> I'm good. And yourself?
>> Yeah, doing well. Let's start uh with your age and your pronouns. Can you tell us what those are?
>> Um 31 and he and him.
>> All right. Fantastic. Okay. So, breaking down Christ, uh, assuming you're a Christian.
>> Yes. Correct.
>> All right. What's your best evidence that God is not evil?
>> Um, I I have, I guess, three points, I think. One, um, we have a standard that we have to point to to even identify what evil is. And I think that's him.
>> God is a standard >> as far as like what's good basically. M >> so we >> so um like without without God it's like how do we identify what is evil >> he is right about that >> God is a fantastic example of uh how to how to look at >> how to identify evil >> evil yeah so actually you're kind of eating okay continue sorry >> yeah second we're with you so far yeah I'm with you on that point >> we're picking up what you're throwing down >> I would say Jesus um that that act if that really happened if that really occurred Then yes, that's >> the act of sac the so Jesus getting crucified. Is that what we're hearing?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. All right. Right. So that's and then the third one is um the love the um you hear you hear about this the fruits of the spirit and one of being love and I guess love is something that goes against you would say nature or um evolution in a sense >> because typically we want to survive and stuff but love will make us you know sacrifice our lives or sacrifice >> for for you know things that we love. So those are my three. All right, let's uh I think we can knock all three out with this one verse right here. Deuteronomy 28:63.
So uh you see the highlighted part there.
>> Mhm.
>> So the Lord will take delight in bringing you to ruin and destruction. So is that uh is that the loving part that you're talking about? It's loving to bring people to ruin and destruction.
>> Well, especially when he's talking about uh let me go to it myself. 28.
What is that? 63.
>> Verse 63. Yeah.
>> He takes delight. What a freak.
>> Like delight like like born again like I can't wait to see you destroyed. Oh, it's like that.
>> Like that's like I'll be honest like that's the my type of villain in like a cartoon.
>> Yeah. Right. That's that's like fantastic behavior. Uh but you know, not for the God of the universe, of course, but that's crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like Dr. Evil from uh Austin Powers, you know.
>> That's what I'm saying. Corky, I'm It's giving Lord Farquad energy.
>> Yes, it is.
>> Lord Farquad energy. Yeah. All right.
All right. So, back to you breaking down.
>> No problem. No problem. So, the two parts I would use to address this is one I I believe he's speaking in covenant terms. for one, just like he he went from talking about the blessings he will bestow upon them if they follow the the covenant, but he also talks about the the ruin, the the consequences. And then u my second part to that would be as a as a parent if you tell your child not to you know do something you know whatever um and they continue doing it they continue doing bad things >> that consequence you're you actually you actually like that you'll be able to give them the consequence because you're hoping that it changes them and you have the evidence now that hey I gave you multiple chances I gave you multiple opportunities and now I can actually I I feel justified in giving you this consequence.
>> Okay. So, I got a 15-year-old daughter.
So, are you telling me, let's just say my 15-year-old daughter decides to um become um you know, run a Sinaloa thing out of her bedroom, you know, and uh you know, she becomes like uh you know, a uh like just running a cartel thing out of her bedroom. Something pretty heinous.
Are you saying then that it would be it would it would be good for me to be delighted to ruin and destroy her for doing that?
>> Well, it's is >> should I be happy about that?
>> And this Well, you will be happy if it brings her back from that. If it turns her from that. Yeah.
>> Well, that's not what this verse says.
This says we'll take delight in bringing you to ruin and destruction.
>> Uhhuh.
>> So, that's what the verse says. It's not about It's not about coming back from something. It says So, let's read what it says. So the Lord will take delight in bringing you to ruin and destruction.
Doesn't say anything about uh you know after you come back from the ruin of destruction, I'll be delighted to see you. No, it's he's happy. He's giddy.
He's rejoicing that he's actually doing the destroying. So let me ask you again.
Are you saying then that I should be I should enjoy destroying my daughter who's running a Sinaloa cartel out of her bedroom? So if we take if we take everything into context, the Israelite people were never destroyed. They they're still here.
>> Wait. So that's that's the whole point of >> he trucked them up a lot of times.
>> Say it again.
>> God trucked up the Israelites.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. He trucked them up pretty bad. Yeah. We we can bring some of that [ __ ] in there. I mean, >> that's that's that's the covenant terms.
But again, ruin and destruction. They weren't fully destroyed.
>> He brought ruin to them. Yeah.
>> So what I'm what I'm asking you Okay. So you're saying that because he didn't do it, >> it's okay. So he >> So this was so this was so this was an empty threat.
>> No, he brought the ruin, but they never was.
>> He's saying God didn't do it, >> but he wanted to.
>> He wanted to. [ __ ] worse.
>> I'm Can we Can we be serious?
>> I didn't do it, but I wanted to. No, that's what you're saying. I wanted to, but I didn't. Ly God made a promise to Israel. So he can't destroy them fully cuz their the seed is coming from their line.
>> Okay. So he lied that verse because it says the Lord will take delight in bringing you to ruin and destruction.
>> Okay. In his covenantal terms. He's not he's not meaning to fully destroy them, but to punish them so they >> Oh, absolutely. Let's go.
>> Okay. Uh here, let me let's uh piggyback off of that one. Psalm 7 11 through13.
Uh yeah. God is a righteous one judge.
>> That's a beautiful one.
>> Who displays his wrath every day. And I will sharpen and bend my bow. I will make ready my deadly weapons. And I will pull my flaming sword.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So that's an example of like how he can display his wrath. Um he doesn't repent.
>> Are we are we skipping are we skipping the top word right there where it says righteous?
>> It doesn't say it doesn't say corrupt judge. It doesn't say unlawful judge. It doesn't say immoral judge. It says a righteous judge.
>> Okay.
>> Are we are we just are we just going to skip that part?
>> Help us out here then. What makes it righteous for God to take a sword to somebody who doesn't repent? What makes that righteous? Because if you're doing if if we are the person is doing evil and that's the thing you guys want God to do something about evil. So when he does something to the evil you're mad at him.
>> But here here's the thing though mine and trust's definition of evil is very very different than God's. And because evil is subjective we have an issue with God because God is like oh evil is wearing underwear you know and then me and trust are like evil is billionaires and uh you know people can't get healthare. Yeah. No health, you know, trucking trucking kids and uh you know getting zero consequences and electing them as people in offices, right? So >> yeah, >> our definition, you could say the word evil, but the problem is is we have very different definitions of what we deem as evil.
>> I'm glad you said that because that's that's that's Adam and Eve tree of knowledge 101. You we all we after we ate that that's we all get to choose now.
>> Okay. So if what you're saying then because this is this is about repenting, right? What's what's repenting? Help us out with what what repent.
>> I would say repenting is is a change of mindset.
>> Change of mindset.
>> Oh, baby.
>> Yeah. I guess you sum it up there. Yeah.
>> And what like so like someone who So it can range everything from unaliving to no longer unaliving, right? That's a repentance, right?
>> Well, more more of the mindset more of the mindset about the unaliving. So let's if if if you if you have if you if you have if you have sex with a woman without um out of wedlock.
>> Holy pit.
>> We're talking. How do we how do we get to sex with >> Cuz I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to bring it to everyday things.
>> Okay.
>> If you if you go from having sex with a woman out of wedlock and then you decide not to do that anymore, >> but the the mindset for that change that that's the that's the key part that God is looking for.
>> Is that bad?
>> No. No. No. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying I'm saying the mindset for the change is >> Yeah. is what is is what God is looking for. Are you changing like Okay, I guess a better example is if I'm a slave owner and I stop owning slaves, is it because of the law told me to stop owning slaves? So, I changed that or is it because I feel in my heart that it's wrong to own slaves?
>> Okay, I got you. I got you. So, it's so it's like a change of heart.
>> Correct.
>> In that sense. Okay. Gotcha. So, it's not just, oh, I'm I'm going to stop unaliving people or taking slaves because it's illegal. It's truly wrong.
I really shouldn't do that and I feel bad about that. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Gotcha. Okay. So, in that sense, if a person who doesn't repent, let's just say, >> yeah, let's just say a a slave owner, all right, >> they don't repent. Are you saying then that we should we should we should just take a sword to them all?
Or should we should we like try them, you know, put them in prison, give them, you know, a sentence, something like that?
>> Is is the law is the law prohibiting that or is it >> answer question? Hold on. Yeah.
>> He asking your subjective opinion.
>> Yeah. Your your opinion. What should we do? Yeah.
>> I I I wouldn't say put them to the sword.
>> You would say put them to the sword. I said I wouldn't. I said I would not.
>> Okay. But well, but see that's the thing. That's what this says because if one does not repent because that's why I asked you to help us out with the, you know, framing of repent. You would say that if a slave owner doesn't repent, that means God will wet his sword. He has bent and strung his bow. So God is going to take a sword to him. He's gonna he's going to use him for target practice, right, with his bows and arrows. He's going to he's gonna he's going to throw like fiery shafts at him.
>> So, an example of this, right? That's what that's what we should do to unrepentant slave owners, right?
>> An example of this would be if I have a brother and a sister and they're doing bad, it's not my job to chastise them.
It's not my job to discipline them.
That's my mom or dad's job.
>> Okay?
>> So, this is So, in this case, God is that judge. I'm not the judge. God God does that.
>> Okay? So what I'm asking you though is so in the sense of your brother and sister, right? And the parents. So if let's just say the your brother and sister are just sneaking out after curfew. All right, they got a 10:00 curfew, but they're sneaking out past curfew and your dad catches them. Are you telling us then that it would be okay for your dad to take a sword to them, sling bows and arrows at them >> because they're not repented?
>> Well, no. That's I'm I'm just reading what it says here on Psalms. It says if and and let me well let me throw in the little other piece to this.
>> They that your your brother and sister they go, "Yeah, Dad, we did it. So what?
I don't care. I don't care what you do."
They're not repentant. So dad should just go >> boom with a bow and arrow.
>> We have We have to remember another verse. We have to remember another We have to remember another verse.
>> Does he give them like a 100 yard head start before he does that or what? You know what?
>> The other verse is this. The other verse is this. God is slow to anger. So you got to put you got to put all this into you gota put all this into you gota put this into consideration it does hold on you got to put you got it's a whole cake it's a whole cake and a piece of cake >> no brother we this doesn't say anything about anger >> righteous judge who displays his wrath every day so you can say he's um you know the peace of path is all understanding he's super patient loving kind >> I 11 I'm sorry God displays his wrath every day I I mean, Godamn men say women have periods once a month and we are the worst monsters in human history because we have a period once a month. But God displays wrath every day and you know we chain yank to his praises. So I'm >> And there you heard it. God is PMSing every day.
>> Why does it say wrath every day?
>> Every single day. And you're saying he's patient, loving, and kind. But I have a period once a I don't have periods anymore, but uh you know once a once a month and all of a sudden you know we we are going to bomb all the country because like you know we're unstable.
>> Um he's just he's just mad every day.
>> Well you got so there's >> if if goodness there's a buildup.
There's always a buildup when it comes down to every >> day. Every day like I'm not even mad at my kids every day.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean I mean >> because that means that means they're evil. That that mean there's evil being done every day.
>> Well, 1 Corinthians 13 says, "Love is is that the verse you were quoting? Love is patient. Love is kind." Love is kind.
Yeah.
>> Well, I was quoting that that God is slow to anger. That's That's what I was >> slow to wrath. He doesn't But I don't think that's God. Isn't that talking about love?
>> No, you talking about the fruits of the spirit, I believe on First Corinthians.
>> Galatians 5, the fruits of the spirit.
>> Yes, Galatians 5. Something like that.
But I mean, but born again, this is kind of going back to our previous guest, like you know, this whole thing about the uncle again, like, >> you know, we got this like we got this uncle who is like really chill with some people, slow to anger, but you know, but he's taking a sword to some other people, too. Like he's just cutting them down. I mean, >> well, >> that's what we got here. We got these two extremes.
>> You have to look at you have to look at the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. You have to look at Nineveh where God has showed he's displayed his patience. He displayed >> okay >> his his ability to have mercy which is hey I'm not I wanted to do this I wanted to destroy them but Abraham said no God can what there's 10 righteous people >> you destroy it with you with >> some situations then it's okay for God to kill people in some situations. Yeah, you're missing the point is >> honestly children.
>> No, the point is even though he may want to destroy them, he has patience. He's he he's hoping that they do repent >> because >> Okay. If you have I don't know if you have a you saying a point or >> uh there there's probably a million examples Trust and I can pull up where there were no warnings. Uh he pissed them off one time and he said, "Okay, that's it. I'm done." Um, and that's and that's something I would like to touch on because >> trust is there a verse where God warns them to truck up I mean to get better like other than Nineveh I think Jonah is the only time that they >> you could say 2863 is kind of a warning right you could say this is kind of one >> um but it's but it's like but it's just a hell of a warning right it's like you you you you [ __ ] up I'm gonna just I'm gonna bring it >> right I'm gonna bring it and I'm going to be >> I do want to touch on what you brought up earlier and I'm going to enjoy it.
>> Yeah, you brought up >> I don't like it. I'm a freak.
>> Sorry.
>> This girl.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I love this.
>> Earlier you said that how come God doesn't um answer all the prayers for the for the kids with cancer and stuff.
>> Okay. We We can do this. No, we can do this.
>> I mean, he he always pivots and it always makes our argument look better.
So, I don't even hate that he keeps pivoting.
>> It's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We We'll do this. We'll do this. Break it down.
>> I I don't hate that you're pivoting, but you you are doing it. But it is. So, >> I'm only bringing it up because you said that um sometimes God punishes without warning. So, I was saying in a case like God answering all the prayers of a of a hospital, right? him clearly demonstrating his power. If people were to turn around and still sin, that's like that's where we get the Old Testament where God is like, "I'm showing you my power and you still are doing evil in front of me."
>> Okay, >> that's where we get that quick sudden things like that because now you have no excuse. It's kind of like if if I go to in front of a police officer and I shoot somebody in front of him, I'm doing it in front of the authorities.
>> Do you have that? Is it God is it because of God's power because when you go to heaven or hell?
>> Is it Say it again. Sorry.
>> Is it Is it due to God's power that you go to either heaven or hell?
>> I believe so. Yes. I believe so.
>> Yeah. You believe so. Okay. So, that's a demonstration of God's power, right?
>> And so, that being the case, you could still go to heaven even if you commit sins on earth, right?
>> Yes.
>> Yes, you could. Okay. And so, And so and what it takes is repentance, right?
Having asking for forgiveness, believing all that stuff, right?
>> Correct.
>> Okay, gotcha. So I'm at a loss here. Why is it only reserved for that? But for some people, it's not reserved for their kids who were born with cancer.
>> Well, I I believe the the person who is believing that they're going to heaven, we don't have a a abs. What is it?
absolute >> an insurance.
>> It's not certain. Yeah, we don't have an assurance that that's even going to be a thing. We're just hoping for that.
>> Um, so if >> What would you say your odds are of going to heaven if you do everything the right way?
>> Uh, for my belief, it doesn't matter if I do it right. It's it's me accepting Jesus. So, based on that, >> Oh, wait. It doesn't matter. Wait a minute. You just kind of blew up your whole argument then. You just you just like took a grenade and just blew it all up because you just said all I got to do is believe in Jesus and I'm good.
>> I mean I mean like I believe I believe in I believe in his sacrifice. I believe that you know he died for me. So >> okay then all they got to do is believe and then their their kid gets healed.
There's no there's nothing stopping God.
>> So here's the here's the thing with that. It's like um me believing >> me believing in that >> presents me with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit pushes me. It pushes me towards what God wants as far as living right living righteous.
>> Do you believe in uh Mark 16 Jesus said one of the last things he said was if you are true disciples of me these signs will accompany you. So if you want to know if you actually are true disciple of Christ. So, I know Mark 16 was added late, so I'm not so I'm not too big on it, but I think if you want to, you could maybe Paul >> Wait, wait, hold on. Bible. You think >> I think you could apply it to Paul? Paul was bit by a snake and um he didn't die based on based on that story. So, >> wait a minute. Is this is the story [ __ ] or uh do we take it literally?
You just kind of said the Bible is you're just kind of committing Bible liel with that last sentence.
I said that if you can you can um apply this to what happened in the Nepal.
>> All right.
>> Anyway, let's just Yeah, go ahead.
>> Wait, hold on. Is this true though?
>> Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This this part here, Mark 14 through 18.
>> Is this true?
>> Yeah, I would say so.
>> Okay. Because you said this is the part you said was added later, right? So, >> yeah. Yeah. I was just giving historical. Yeah. All right. Well, this is this is like what I asked that lady earlier. So, is it true if are you are you a person who's believed and baptized?
>> Correct. Yes.
>> Okay. You are. All right. So, you you meet the criteria for this, right? But the one and these signs will accompany those who believe. That's one. That's you.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay.
>> Oh, we're in 14.
>> Oh, wait. Are we in 14?
>> Yeah, this is uh 14 through 18.
>> My bad. Okay. You pulled out. I don't There might not be a 16.
>> Yeah, Mark 16. Yeah. Mark 16 14-18. You You called it. You called it. Unless you're thinking of the other one. Are you thinking of the taste of death one?
Is that the one you're thinking about or >> I'm the the poison one?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're here. Yeah. You got it. You got it. You nailed it. Yeah.
So that I was just about to ask you um guest. So you believe >> So that means then if you drink poison, it won't hurt you, right? You believe that, right? That's true.
>> Well, we're also I believe if I'm not doing it to test God, that's what I'm saying. The guy got got you. It's like a check box.
>> No, no. Just like just like No, no, no.
It's like this. It's like Let's just say Let's just say you're picking up your homie from the club, right? And somebody accidentally spiked your drink, right? And then you accidentally drank it. So, since you're a believer, that's not going to hurt you, right?
You're not testing God. It's just happen stance.
Well, the drink hurt I would say. Yeah, it it wouldn't I don't know if it would say it would hurt me, but um it shouldn't kill or you know >> Well, yeah, it says hurt. So, you shouldn't get sick at all.
>> You shouldn't you shouldn't feel pain.
You shouldn't Nothing should happen.
Nothing will happen to you. That's because it says it will not hurt them.
>> So, nothing will happen to you. And that's why I'm saying I don't know if this is focused on um Paul and the great commission. I don't know if this is applies to um us today.
>> Okay. So, who is the >> because if you if you keep going, you know, it says lay hands and they were recovered. I don't think that was everybody.
>> Well, who's the who? Well, then this then who who is the those who believe then?
>> Um I would say the the disciples the world apostles or the apostles.
>> Okay. Why didn't it say apostles then?
Because wouldn't it just say you guys or you all? You know what I mean? Like Jesus would specifically say to you, >> but it just says to those who believe.
And it does say the one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.
Now, that is that part true or false?
>> That's 16.
>> Okay. So, that applies to everybody, right?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So why would 17 only apply to a certain set of people?
>> Because I believe this was when they was trying to established the church.
>> I hear that. But 16 applies to everybody. But now you're telling us a 17 only applies to a little tiny set of people.
>> Because even again, they were speaking new tongues and stuff. That's not something that because you know what I'm saying? You have to you have to measure the Bible with the Bible. Like there's a time there's a time for these things and a time.
>> I know. I said that's there's a time for these things and a time um when these things are no longer needed.
>> Okay. So, uh do you plan on swinging a snake around just to double check to make sure you're going to heaven?
>> No. But see, that'll be testing. That'll be testing.
>> That's what Jesus said. But that's what Jesus said.
>> But he doesn't tell us to test God.
>> He said these signs will accompany you, which means uh they will happen. You will be able to pick up snakes. Is that and and I believe this is >> you can drink you can drink poison and it won't hurt >> Yeah. It won't hurt you.
>> Now if you did it in the name of Jesus like say say a snake is going to threaten a little child.
>> Uhhuh.
>> You picking up that snake?
>> Yeah.
>> With your bare hands?
>> Yeah.
>> Are you going to get Are you going to get Are you going to be like me and go get a pillowcase or something? Cuz that's what I would do. or like a big tarp or something.
>> If I have chance, if I have if I have time, but I think in a moment that's my kid or something. I think I'm think I'm rushing in.
>> You rushing in.
>> Cobra. Like is there a limit? Like a rattlesnake. Cobra. A viper. How about that? Like a like a black mambbo. That's like the most dangerous one.
>> Even Even if that's the case, >> if my kid is right there, I'm jumping in.
>> No, any kid.
>> Yeah, even any kid. Yeah. Any kid.
>> Well, guess let let's uh let's ask this.
Are you willing are you willing to work for poison control?
>> Yeah.
>> No.
>> No.
>> But like you but you have the cure for every single person who drinks poison.
>> I I don't have the cure cuz remember this does if if we if we want to go off for your guys' logic >> first 18ure.
No, you could be a taste tester.
>> That's what I'm saying. Like you could be a taste tester.
>> Yeah. You could be like the royal taste tester. You know how they have those in the movies?
>> Oh boy. You could be a real taste.
>> Royal taste testers. Grace, >> bro. I'm I'm I'm thinking I'm thinking you could be You could be a taste tester.
>> Yeah, man. You could be a taste tester for real. You could You'd be like, "No, no, I got this, fam. I got this. I got you. I got you. I believe and I got the spirit. I've been baptized. I can do this."
>> Wouldn't that be for a good cause? I think that I think that >> honestly if Jesus followers really had this like as a part of the movement you guys can make so much money. Can you imagine being like >> we're not we're not doing it for the money. Well, we shouldn't be doing it for money followers.
>> But that's what Christians say. But that's the thing though because they know they know >> because of miracles.
>> You know you can't do these things.
That's why you say I'm not in it for the money. Dude Christians love moola. Let's be honest. They love moola. That's why we make a church. People Christian by name. But God >> nobody nobody cares that you're a different type of Christian. All Christians would literally if you guys thought this was real, you guys would market it somehow. There is nobody that is drinking poison.
>> People are doing I think in some some churches they they if you Google it, you have some preachers who try to practice this.
>> We know there are Pentecostals.
>> Yeah, >> we know what happens.
>> There are Pentecostals who switch around.
>> Yeah. All the ones who drank the Kool-Aid are not here. 100%.
>> I mean I mean come on. The Kool-Aid drinkers are not here. There are Pentecostal churches that swing snakes around and they've died of poison.
>> They're venomous. They've literally died. There are documentaries about this. So it's not true. Mark 16 is not true. And these people genuinely believed this [ __ ] >> I I do want to say another point, too.
in Revelations. If Revelations is true, I I believe it's in uh 13 or 21, I'm not sure, but during the millennium reign, Jesus is still going to give people a choice if you want to follow him or not.
>> Okay.
>> How did I know it was going to be something that we're not talking about?
So, um I'm not 16 applies to all Christians.
>> Yeah, I'll bring it back for you.
>> No, no. I think that was for a time and I kept saying that. But Jesus said, "This will accompany those who follow me, who are true disciples, >> those who believe." So that's But yeah, but this is like what the this is what the previous guest tried to say. But but see this kind of go remember my Hey yo.
Hey, break down. You remember cuz I think you were in the chat when when I Yeah, you were here. So help me out with the distinction because the analogy I gave was um >> you know, you're you're about to board a plane, right?
>> And it s cuz Yeah. This is the this is what you're this is what you're talking about. um will accompany those who believe. Right? This part right here. So if the if the if the person on the speaker at the airport says those with the letter C on their boarding pass, you may board, but you start walking up and they say, "No, wait, wait. Not you." And you were like, "But I got a C." No, no, no, no. Not you. I didn't mean everybody with a C. Just those with a C. But I didn't say exactly who. Are you are you like I'm cool with that or are you like but no I gotta see I need to board the plane.
Do you think that you're gonna be boarding the plane or do you doubt that you're going to be boarding a plane?
>> I think I'll be boring the plane.
>> You think you'd be boarding a plane?
Thank you for your honesty. So that means that this will accompany those who believe.
>> That's there's no exception here. No, because even when Jesus says on upon this rock I will make my church, he doesn't need literally this rock like like you got to understand there are points trust he's right >> sometimes when the Bible says things it doesn't actually say it like the part where it's like don't wear mixed fabric we can wear mixed fabric meanings with the part that hey shut up it's the part that says hey shave your beard oh we don't have to follow the part that says don't be gay We don't have to follow that. Uh so we don't have to worry when the Bible actually says things.
>> Oh yeah. So that means we shouldn't also follow it when it says oh hey you know when you when you sell your daughter as a slave we shouldn't Yeah. We we just ignore that right? Is it one of those things breakdown?
>> No. That no that so that that's a literal that's a literal thing. That's not metaphorical.
>> That's not metaphorical.
>> That's literal. Oh, so it's met it's literal when it says in dut in uh Exodus when a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as other slaves do. That's >> Mhm.
>> That's literal.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> So, so selling your daughters is the right thing to do. I think you got confused.
>> Well, we're not saying if it's the right That wasn't his question. He was asking if it was literal.
>> Yeah.
>> So, so God literally advocated girls.
>> So, God God was cool with that.
Well, it's like I compare it to >> I compare it to um marriage and divorce.
God doesn't want people for divorce, but he will create a system where you guys can have the divorce because of hardness of of of man's heart. So in this case, slavery, that's not something that God created. That's something that we created ourselves, but he's here to just I would say try to manage.
>> So then why then why command uh rainbow people do Say it again.
>> Praise be. Why command rainbow people to be put to death? Then >> if that was their way of life and that their way of living, why was the unaliving rainbow?
>> Leviticus 18. Is that what?
>> Well, I don't know if I have time for >> 2013 is the death sentence of 18. Thank you. Yeah.
>> What? What? What verse? I'm sorry.
>> Leviticus 2013 says, um, if a man shall lie with a man as he does with a woman, uh, he has done what is attestable before God. And the penalty for their perversion is they will be put to death.
their blood will be on their own heads.
So my thing is like if people were doing slavery and God was like bam my hands are tied. I would totally say don't do it if they weren't doing it. Um why didn't he have that same type of energy towards rainbow people since they were doing it? Do you know why were in his hands time for that?
>> I don't have enough time. If I have time we can get into it but >> all right. Well yeah you you are unfortunately out of time but hey >> breaking down Christ. Appreciate you.
You're a good sport and this was a good talk. But come back another day and we'll we'll we'll mix it up again.
>> Sound good?
>> I have a good one.
>> All right. Have a good one.
>> Yeah.
Sometimes, you know, we don't have to like say anything, do we? We can just let them talk.
>> Uh that usually that's my that's what I do. I just let them talk. If people go, "Damn, I don't want to be a Christian."
I go, "Yeah, very good."
>> Yeah. Very good. Good choice.
>> We just let them talk.
Yeah, you're right, man. Just making our points for us. That was >> Yeah, you you just let them talk and they usually do the hard work for us.
It's kind of fantastic.
>> Yeah, it is. It is kind of serendipitous. I I'm not going to lie.
Yeah, that's true. All right, it's uh G or J. J. We're gonna we're gonna bring you in. J, >> how's it going, Jeff?
>> I'm doing great. Jay, it's J.
>> Jay. Okay, thank you for that. All right. Um, can we get your age and pronouns, please?
>> I am 19 years old and I am a male.
>> A male. Okay, that is your sex. So, some males go by they them. Some go by it. It we us. We had a we we had a male who was a wei us earlier.
>> We us. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We us.
>> So, which which pronouns shall we use for you?
>> Just use me or no, not me. He >> he. Perfect. Okay.
>> He he him. Whatever.
>> He him. Okay. Which god are you going to want to talk to us about today?
>> Uh, the Catholic god.
>> Catholic god. All right. What's your best evidence that this god is not evil?
>> The best evidence to prove that this god is not real is because want to know something. We all say that subjective morality is, you know, morality is subjective. Do you guys believe that?
>> Well, I don't, but I think born again does. However, I will say it like this.
I'm willing to bet I'll put I'll put a I'll put a 20 piece down that if just about any moral situation I'd say 99.99% me and born again will land on the same side >> of course. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. So this is where I want to get by. So if morality is truly subjective this this is like this is you know a little bit on the add-on.
>> Okay. If morality was truly subjective, why are we always searching for something that is like you know true and and searching for something that you know we want? Because the thing is whenever you look at a person with a subjective morality and you say someone that you disagree with their you know morality or something like that or their point of view they usually get really defensive about it and they act like you know oh no you're wrong you're wrong.
Wouldn't that be objective at that point in their point of in their point of view at least?
>> All right. Well, hold on. Let me kind of reset this because this is a question.
It's not evidence. So, >> well, okay. Yeah, but it's building on like, you know, the whole morality prospect of, you know, like, oh, well, okay. If God was truly, you know, good, maybe we have to look for the moral aspect of it first. You get what I'm saying?
>> Okay. Okay. So, if I'm hearing you right then, because I just want I want to establish the answer to the question above my head. So, if I'm hearing you right, you're saying that um God uh defines morality. He sets the standard.
Like what exactly is God?
>> What's the relation between God and morality?
>> I I learned about this in my ecclesiology class in the study of the church. Um this God is morality essentially.
>> God equals morality.
>> Yes. God is moral. There's a reason why we say God is.
>> Oh.
>> So, >> okay. All right. And so back to your question.
>> Praise be to do.
>> Yeah. So back to your question. You said if morality is subjective then say it again.
>> Why do we always search for something that is the objective truth and defend that truth? So >> searching for that. What are you really?
Okay. No. No. Listen. Why are we so like you know whenever we are debating morality? Why are we so like defensive over it? Why are we so like oh no no your morality is wrong. Your morality is wrong. Mine's mine's better. Why are we saying that?
>> If I thought your morality was better than mine, I would just adopt it.
>> Yeah.
>> Adopt it. You would adopt it.
>> I would literally say if you were like, "Hey, there's this tribe and this other country and you know, if we gave them these types of resources, they they would be able to do this, this, and this, and this."
>> I didn't know that prior to that. So then my morality would start catering toward this community that you taught me about, right?
>> Yeah. as as your morality. If you educate me or indoctrinate me on something and I fall for it, I would just transform my morality to reflect yours. I would not say, "Damn it, his morality is better than mine." That's not how it works. I would just go, "Oh, thank you for letting me know." You can only know what you know. You can only be indoctrinated with what you're indoctrinated with. So, >> you think it would it'd be objective at that point, right?
>> Nope. Jesus [ __ ] Christ.
>> She doesn't. No, I do. However, I'm going to I'm going to stay out of this because you didn't ask about objective morality as far as I'm concerned.
However, um I'm still I I'm still going to work with born again on this. So, >> cuz I'm actually >> at the end of the day, whatever trust uh opinion is on this, it it super doesn't matter because you think that God of the Bible sets everybody's morality, which is hilarious because >> Oh, no. Go ahead. Sorry. Finish your statement. My bad.
>> Oh, no. You're you're fine. So, I was going to say if God sets the moral standard, then you have to think it's objectively okay to burn women alive who are sexually promiscuous and who are pastor's kids.
>> Okay. You want to know something?
>> Translation of the Hebrew text. Want to know why? Because the you got to look at the you got to look at the uh perspective of the Old Testament. All right. The Old Testament was a very ancient world during the Bronze Age.
>> He's he's about to say uh Yeah. So, we we don't actually think like we did in the Old Testament. That's why morality is subjective. Exactly. Guess >> that's why Okay. That's why morality is subjective. Okay. But if morality >> in the sense of God's morality, right?
Because you're about to say, well, that was ancient old times. Things have changed. That's what we're saying >> because we actually established you got to look look at the pagan cultures at the time. The >> pag you're literally granting what my argument here by saying we don't that was barbaric times. Of course, they're going to be crazy. Well, that's that's the whole point what I'm saying. God doesn't set objective moral >> because God didn't have the law at that point. We we none of us had the law. You got to realize before >> setting the law in every book of the Bible, the Old Testament. What are you talking about?
>> Yeah, brother. That was in the law.
>> No, no, not did not have the written text. Okay, listen. The Jews did not have >> there's literally something called the Levitical laws and that Levitical laws >> that was given after after the book of Genesis and during the the the whole, you know, >> Exodus is literally where the Ten Commandments were displayed on Mount Si.
That was the second level.
>> You're right. That's when people received the law. The Jews received the law. You said they didn't have the law.
By Leviticus, they had the Ten Commandments.
>> Yes. No. No. That's when the law happened because, you know, God gave them the law there. All right.
>> You said the law didn't exist yet.
>> Yeah. The law didn't exist yet because people didn't know what it was.
>> But then you just said that the law existed. So you just >> But I did not say the law existed before then. I said the law existed after God gave the Jews the law. That's >> Yeah. But by the by the burn the pastor's daughter, the law already existed. That was a part of it.
>> So that that was in the book of Leviticus, right?
All of the commandment there's 613 all throughout the Old Testament.
>> Okay. So the whole thing, right? Want to know something?
>> Look at the story where Jesus forgave the woman. Nobody cares.
>> Oh, that's a pivot. That's a pivot.
We're not going to let you pivot.
>> That's a pivot. That's a pivot. But it's the same exact thing cuz you said burn the but Jesus forgives based on like Okay. In Deuteronomy 22:22, wreck a woman who was caught in adultery. Jesus says don't wreck her. He changed that law which means his morality towards the law changed. He used subjective morality to say we did wreck women now we don't.
>> That's why his morality is subjective changed.
>> It's not objective because he changed it.
>> No. Jesus fulfilled the law. He didn't change the law. He fulfilled it.
>> Fulfilling it changed the law.
>> No, it didn't. Fulfilling the law means you spread the word and you get everyone to know that this is the one true God.
the Jews are not just >> but if you don't unal alive women that changed the law the law was to unal alive women and now the law's changed so he it is subjective >> okay all right so you say that it is subjective at that point because they is Jesus you know changed the law >> well it's not it's not an objective standard set by God because Jesus changed the law >> can't be can't be objective hey born again you mind if I take a swing at this >> yes I had to grab my charger so go for it >> oh okay okay because I got okay Jay I got something on here that Christians just simply cannot guard me on. So, um, so, uh, we can we can take a stab at we can take a look at this. So, help me out here. Um, because you said that God sets the the objective moral standard, right?
>> Oh, by the way, Jay, if you are swiped away from the app, you just have to come back to the app. But if you're if you're if you're researching, that's cool.
Yeah. If you're looking up Bible passages, that's cool. Um, perfectly fine, but you just have to come back to the app and talk to me so we can hear.
>> I'm happy right now.
>> Okay. Okay. Yeah, no problem. Okay. So, help me out here.
>> Under So, if under what circumstance is it morally good to punish one person for somebody else's sin?
List the verse that you're implying because I know you're implying No, I need you to answer the question first. I got to trap you first.
>> So, you're saying that's how we do it here.
Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. So, you're saying that it's someone else's >> So, you're saying that it's someone else's fault that you >> Yeah. Yeah. someone someone commits a sin and I'm asking you under what circumstance is it morally good to punish a person who did not commit the sin for a person in place of a person who did commit the sin I believe that's more so about you know the willingness to be uh you know the sacrificial lamb because you know you got to realize that lamb Yeah. The sacrificial lamb.
>> Okay. Well, I'm asking under what circumstance is it morally good?
>> If someone is willing to take that.
>> Okay. So, if someone's willing to do it?
>> Yes.
>> Got it. And if they're not willing or we don't know whether or not they're willing, is it still morally good?
>> We can't truly tell if Well, unless they explicitly say it themselves. Uh, we cannot truly tell if they are, you know, unwilling, but >> Okay. I got a couple ways I can go with this. Um, neither one's going to be good for you, but I got a couple ways I can go.
>> All right, I'm ready.
>> Okay. No, we'll go tried and true. We'll go tried and true. Okay, so let's let's talk about consent for a minute. What is your idea of consent?
>> Idea of consent >> in terms of in terms of um uh being with a person to have sex with them.
>> What does what does consent mean? Yeah.
Like what? Like the the fine line between rape and you know sex.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. The fine line between rape and sex is it could be it could go both ways. Okay.
One side couldn't like you know one but again like the mutual interaction you know all that they they agree with it whatever.
>> Mhm.
>> The other one is where one side didn't explicitly say it but they also kind they also you know wanted it. You can't truly tell without their words being recorded unless you know they actually wanted it.
>> Okay. How can you tell that they want it if they don't say anything? How can you tell?
>> That's the complicated part. Um well, I'm not going to glorify rape because obviously that's wrong, but uh >> is it? It's obviously wrong. Okay.
>> Yeah, obviously.
>> Hey, remember that everybody? All right.
>> Uh okay.
So when that happens >> Mhm.
>> it's more or less about your uh feeling at the time. Okay. Like if like I I know you're trying to get me on this, you know, you're saying, "Oh, but how can you tell if you don't if they don't want that?"
Uh what I say to that is okay you may not know but you also have to examine the other person's conscious which you really can't.
>> Okay. So you know what I'm saying?
>> Okay. So in that sense then um should you as a as a male you you did say you're a male. Should you as a male if a woman I I'm assuming you're you're hetero.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Safe to say. All right. So if a woman does not say yes, do you or do you not move forward?
>> Choose not say yes.
>> Yeah.
>> Explicitly say Jay, let's go. Yes.
Do you or do you not move forward?
>> I would uh I guess I would move forward cuz they they they want it at that point.
>> Wait, wait, no. No. What? Wait. Reframe.
>> Reframe that. Reframe that. I Sorry, I was a little bit >> Okay, pull it back. Okay, that's good.
That's good. We we we do mulligans here.
We do takebacks. That's good because this is important because this this could mean the difference between us having a nice conversation and you doing five to 10 somewhere. So, >> yeah, >> it's kind of important that we we get this straight.
>> I'm studying for finals right now. I got to do some stuff.
>> Okay. I'm trying to help you out here.
Yeah, I'm trying to help you out here.
All right. Okay. Cuz see, this helps everybody. This helps women out there.
This helps you stay out of prison. This helps somebody from not getting victimized. I mean, this this is a win for everybody if we get this ironed out and straight. Okay. So, >> Okay.
>> All right, Jay. So, I like to use the acronym FRISE. Have you heard of that acronym before?
>> Uh, no, I haven't actually.
>> Okay. So, you might want to write this down. This is this is going to be super helpful to you. Freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic. That's That's a pretty key one. And specific.
>> I'm writing it down.
>> Okay. So, freely given.
>> That's good.
>> That's good. I like this. Yes. Freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic, and specific.
So, if you don't have all five of those present, it's not consent.
>> All five.
>> All five have to be there.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> All five. So, here's a great example.
Let's just say a woman says yes, but she doesn't seem She's like, "I guess."
>> Yeah.
>> She's nervous.
>> Yeah. She's nervous. Oh, yeah. I I I really want to, Jay, but I'm super nervous. Do you have consent?
>> I No, I I would I I would tell her.
>> Beautiful.
>> Okay. That's That's a great sign. Great sign. Okay. So, you you're one step further away from prison. We like this.
We like this. Okay. So, >> all right.
>> Okay, we like this Jay. Okay, so now with that in mind, in what circumstance is it morally good to punish somebody with grape >> under a circumstance about grape? Like, >> yeah. What circumstance is it morally good?
>> To punish someone.
>> Yeah.
>> To punish somebody with grape.
>> So, we're just talking about punish somebody. Punishing somebody in general.
>> Okay. So if they get punished with great fish, it definitely serve, you know, their time.
>> No, no, no, no. I'm I'm talking about to punish some like somebody who's committed something of wrongdoing to pun to say since you [ __ ] up, we're going to we're going to have someone grape you. You're going to get railed out back. Is that in what situation is that morally good?
>> Look at the David situation like that.
>> That was morally good.
>> Where? No. where where you know okay what do you mean by that like morally like good as in like you know oh they did something so bad that they deserve to get raped >> I'm I'm asking you what situation is it morally good to punish somebody with rape >> well I believe in you know not causing even more hatred than what you already caused but >> okay this is painful >> yeah uh >> not going to lie this is painful >> yeah Oh, >> now do do you want to Okay, here. Pause that. Hey, born again. You and your subjective heathen morality over there.
In what situation is it morally good to punish anybody with grape?
>> Not never disgusting.
>> Never. Okay. See? See? That was fast.
That was so fast. See how easy that was?
Jay, I >> I had to analyze that because I know you're going to try to get me into a trap, so I'm going to like analyze.
Brother, you're already in the trap.
You're already in the trap. You're already in the trap. Yeah. So >> you're a Christian. You you you started in the trap.
>> Yeah, you're already in the trap. So Jay, here me with my objective morality, my objective heathen morality, >> I agree with born again atheists. There is no circumstance in which it is morally good to punish somebody with grape. Okay.
>> So see see how I said earlier she and I will land on the same side.
>> Uh yeah, we have the same horns. So I think that's probably what's helping with our >> I think I think that's what it is. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. The same horns. Both got them in Amazon. $4.99.
>> Yes. Yeah. Literally, it's the same exact ones. I'm [ __ ] obsessed.
>> So, okay. So, Jay, um, you see how like you and I Well, you think you have objective morality. I do have objective morality, but we're not on the same we're we don't land on the same side here. You're you're kind of struggling with this already. You see that?
>> Yeah. I Okay. So, yeah, you see that?
Okay. So now let's kind of add in another piece to this. Um here I'll start with born again atheist this time.
>> Born again atheist. In what circumstance is it morally good to punish an innocent person with rape to punish a guilty person, another guilty person?
>> You know, it's going to be similar to my answer, but it's also going to be like why the [ __ ] are we punishing an innocent person?
>> Why the [ __ ] are we even talking about this? Right.
>> I'm going to take it. I'm going to double my answer to crazy.
>> What the hell is that?
>> Yeah. Okay. So, I'm and again I land on the same side as born again atheists here. I I'm I'm at the point where I was like, why are we even discussing this?
That's that's even that's like a non-starter. Okay.
>> That is amazing.
>> All right. So, now so with you, you did you were kind of thinking up some conditions here. So, let me ask you again, Jay. Under what circumstance is it morally good to punish an innocent person with grape to instead of the guilty person >> under no circumstance >> under no circumstance. Okay. Now we can go to 2 Samuel 12 8-12.
>> Yeah it's it's going to be >> but my window is cold.
2 Samuel uh 12:es 8-2. But I got to fix my window here so everybody can see it.
Okay, I think that's pretty good. Is that Oh, that's that's a little too big here.
>> See that?
>> Let me shrink it.
>> Wait, if you read this, the guest might lose his argument.
>> Yeah, that's sort of the point, right?
>> Oh, >> yeah. Okay. So, I don't know why it's like the window is off. It's like partially cut off >> from my phone. I I mean, it's cut off a little bit on the sides, but we can read this.
>> You can make you can kind of make it out here. I can read it. Okay. So, >> I'm reading this right now.
>> Okay. Have you read this before?
>> Uh, yes. And I know 2 Samuel is a historical book, right? You know that.
You know that, right?
>> Okay. But so, but it actually happened, right? Is it true?
>> Yes, cuz it's a historical book.
>> Okay. It actually happened. So, it literally happened. Okay. Okay. No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on.
>> Yikes and bites.
>> No, no, no. Okay, I'm reading it further right now. This is a prophecy laid by someone where someone named Nathan prophesies this because David committed adultery with uh Ba Sheba.
>> Okay, let's let's let's just grant that it's a prophecy. All right, usually I die on that hill, but I'm just today I'm going to grant it because it really doesn't matter. So when we go to verse 11 says, "Thus says the Lord, I who is I >> uh Lord, >> I will raise up trouble against you from within your own house and I will still the Lord. I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor." So let me stop right there.
Let's imagine just imagine a uh a beloved uh relative, female relative. I won't even call out a name, but just just imagine in your head for a second, Jay, a beloved female relative. All right?
And this beloved female relative, her husband cheats on her and then he unalivives the spouse of the person he cheated with.
Mhm.
>> Would it be morally good for God to punish her husband to take her, give her to the next door neighbor, and then let's finish it. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight and then lie with this beloved female relative that you have in front of the whole neighborhood. Is that morally good?
>> Morally good. Does it say rape in that or does it? No, it says take.
>> It It says lei. You got Listen, this is where I This is where I get good. Okay.
The Hebrew translation of lei does not mean rape at all. You do realize that, right?
>> Yeah. No, but I'm focusing on the word take. What does take mean in Hebrew?
>> Take in Hebrew means you simply just >> not. It means to seize. It means to seize.
>> Seize. Seize. Like, you know how you seize. Yeah. Seize. Seize does not mean >> to grab hold upon, forcefully grab.
>> Grab hold forcefully grab. sees, right?
Because they use this they use this for like Yeah. Yeah. You're right. They use this in different contexts. They use it for arms, but they also use it >> to uh for like slaves. They use it for, >> you know, taking goods, you know, it's it's seizure like property, right?
>> I studied a specific verse under a rabbi. He told me that this does not mean you are forcibly taking something.
This is >> Boy, I can I can bring in two rabbis who will tell me otherwise.
>> Okay. No. So >> you you've used this verse on them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They've actually been in my live while we've gone over this verse cooking people.
>> Okay. But this but this specific rabbi, he's an orthodox rabbi. He told me that this does not mean that he will necessar God does not mean he will necessarily >> Well, yeah. Cuz he want I mean I'm sure trust trust rabbis are reliable because they study the Bible from a >> very ritualistic >> critical perspective. Yeah. Critical.
Your rabbi is probably like, "We need this God to sound fantastic." Uh, so anything that's bad doesn't actually mean it's bad. Unless it's condemning rainbow people.
>> Yeah. But did did this >> I can I can bring this home very easily, Jay. I can bring this home very easy.
>> So, okay. So, is this Oh, look at that.
We have one. Look at that. Wow. The Rabbi Bat signal web went out. And look who appears.
>> The cyani signal.
>> The cyani signal.
>> That's cool.
Negil Ngila. How about that? Thank you for being here, Rabbi.
>> Appreciate you. So, look at that. We have a rabbi here. All right.
>> All right. All right.
>> So, um, can you help us out with the Now, you hang actually Jay, can you repeat what you said about what the Orthodox rabbi told you? And then >> the Orthodox rabbi told me that this will be that this is Okay. So, he told me >> and we're talking specifically about the word take, right?
>> Yeah. The word take in Hebrew. Mhm.
>> So he told me that the word this specific verse taken Hebrew, he told me that it wasn't, you know, he was going to like force me like like by brute force take the uh woman.
>> Is this Kings 2? Kings chapter 2. First Kings.
>> Oh, this is 2 Samuel Samuel.
>> 2 Samuel 12:es 8-12.
So, we're on specifically verse 11 where it says, "I will take your wise before your eyes."
>> But I will imply this that did not actually happen. David's real punishment came unto him. Uh because he his his when him he got Bath Sheba pregnant, the child died. He didn't he didn't get anything out of it. The relationship one more time.
>> I got I got a quick It's uh 2 Samuel 12 >> uh specifically verse 11. But here, I gotta read a uh I gotta read a super chat real quick while you while you find it, Rob. Um, rainbow ash, $5. Ancient Hebrew, correct, did not have a word for great because they didn't consider women anything more than property. That is true.
So, it was that's why they we use these words take and sees and something like that. Um, sees and lie with, take and lie with, uh, things of that sort. Yeah.
There was no specific word for grape.
>> Very true.
So lei means just sex essentially >> in this sense. Yes. And >> yes.
>> Oh yeah. But I'm about to bring this home, but we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna clear up this whole issue with take here in a second.
>> Sure. So what I would do is, by the way, it's interesting the same. What you would need to do is see the semantic range. It It's funny. The word uh lo is not actually the word that's really interesting here. The word take is not actually the word that's interesting.
The question is which verb uh is used to sleeping with to to be uh sleeping with?
There's two Yeah. Right. There's two um uh there's two Hebrew words that are used. Uh there's leat which is to know in a consensual sense. It's like I knew her in the biblical sense. That's like the leat. Um and then bishkav is to cause to lie down. Um and if we look at the the um like for example Leviticus 18:22 heav is used there the one shall not cause a man to lie down with a man uh with as one does a woman. In other words um there's the causitive yeah piece.
>> Okay. I I have a little bit of a different interesting way to look at this.
So, uh, Rav, when we look at the wives here, um, were these were these wives with agency or were they concubines?
>> Can't hear you, Rabbi.
>> He's on mute.
>> Oh, you might be muted or might have had a signal problem.
No.
>> Oh, there you are.
>> Can you hear me?
>> Yeah, now we can hear you. Yeah.
>> Great. Um, I'm trying to find like a quiet spot in this thing. Give me one minute. Um, okay. What was the question?
>> My question was um when it says I will take your wives, the wives were they were they women with agency?
um not in the most traditional sense, >> right?
>> Because it does say in Samuel 16, 2 Samuel 16, they were referred to as concubines, right?
>> And that was really pjorative if my understanding. Yeah, because it was pjorative because when Ahllil was talking to Abselum, he was talking about the women pjoratively like dei like degrading in a degrading way. But >> what the relationship like I'd have to see the full context, but like nashim literally just means women, which is a synonym for wife or women. So it's it just depends on how the context works.
>> Yeah. But these were these were women that God gave because they they came from Saul. Yeah. They were Saul's wives originally, right?
>> Oh, that's right. When when uh Yeah.
When when Saul's wives are are given to David or whatever.
>> Right. Right. So they were so I think these were concubines at least Rabbi Hana says they were concubines but um so in that sense so the what I'm where I'm going with this everybody is that if these were these were women who were given to David and now God is saying I will take them away from you and then give them to somebody else and remember Jay how we went over the five finger test for fries >> right so yeah >> just looking at that verse did They freely give.
>> Freely gave as in like God gave them to >> No, no, no. I'm talking about the wives cuz this specifically the wives was consent freely given.
>> Uh, no, not necessarily.
>> Is is this Let's just We'll just say we'll just say what you said. It is a prophecy. Is this prophecy reversible?
>> Uh, yeah.
>> It is.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Because it didn't happen. It didn't happen. It didn't happen.
>> It didn't happen.
>> It didn't happen.
>> It didn't happen.
>> In 2 Samuel 16, it did.
>> It did.
>> Yeah. 2 Samuel 16 totally got graped. All these wives. And just so you guys know, David had eight wives and 10 concubines. All of these women and girls. I'm sure I'm sure there was some young ones in there. They were all impacted. And we know we literally see a story where Tamar his daughter and the daughter as well.
>> She gets raped by is Abselum the rapist or the avenger? I don't remember. Um >> in this one it's 2 Samuel 16. Abselum is the is the the one who they laid with or who because it says here in 22. So they pitched a tent for Abselon upon the roof and Abselon went into his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel.
>> Jesus. Uh yeah. So if if it is Absilon that grapes the daughter, which it might be, um the other son ends up schmurdering him.
Spoiler alert, guys. It's a crazy story.
So we definitely know this happened. He he his life ended because the son was like, "The [ __ ] raped our sister."
>> Yeah. You're you're talking about Absilon unaliving the other guy. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
>> You're talking about that one.
>> Everybody's grape in this family. Um >> Yeah. Very great people. Yeah. Very.
>> So we do know this happened. Uh the son's the son was avenged. The grapes was avenged by the other son. The daughter was assaulted. Um, I mean, this whole thing, the son was like, "You ruined her life." Like, now she's not pure anymore. We know this is not hyperbole. We know this is an actual occurrence.
>> Well, Jay, you did say it's historical.
This actually happened. That's what you just said. You said that.
>> That's true. You said it's historical and now you're saying it's kind of not real. So, >> yeah. So, this actually happened.
>> I didn't I didn't necessarily say that this was all like symbolic. I said it was, you know, a prophecy from something. But you said it's historic, which means it happened. And then we ver we clarified. We're like, "Does that mean this happened?" And you're like, "Yeah, >> it's historic.
>> Historic. It happened." So this So Abselon >> went into his stepmothers. That's essentially what this says.
>> Boy, it just gets worse when you start framing it in the right context. That's just >> I know. Not to mention, it starts off with the beautiful baby schmurder. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't even gotten there yet. That's the That's the fun part. We haven't even gotten there.
>> The baby thing. The baby thing. Oh, what? I thought that happened first.
>> No, no, no. It happened after this. It's right after this.
>> Damn. Wait, you know what's funny about God? Listen, I don't think he's a funny guy. I don't think what he does is funny, but all of his god wrath always ends in baby schmurder.
>> It does.
>> I think that it's always like boom and right the right below the belt.
>> Boom. Couple >> babies. Yeah. And the babies.
>> Okay.
That's how you know God writes this story.
>> I want to tell you I want to ask you this. So >> is Jay is trying to I'm not just trying to >> No, no, I'm not I'm not defending that.
No, >> you want to know something? The whole the whole the whole idea of Catholicism especially. It says that the theology is that Jesus when he went down to Shaol to free all the souls that were in waiting before you know the um as he you know died he preached the gospel to every soul that died in uh the Old Testament and before he died. Do you know about that?
>> Um I yeah but I'm just not sure why this is relevant to what >> this applies because this >> Jesus loves the little children.
It is.
>> Don't think don't think about anything we just read even though I brought it up first.
>> But we want to know something. Everyone got a second chance who died in the Old Testament.
>> Okay. Okay. So, so let let's finish out the acronym. Okay. So, you you did say it's reversible. And you know what? I'll give you that. It's reversible. Is this informed?
Were the ladies informed that this was going to happen?
>> Do you see that here?
>> The ladies informed.
>> Yeah. So it doesn't say that in the in the verse especially that it doesn't say that Nathaniel >> do. Yeah. Doesn't say that anybody informed the ladies. Just God just says this is what's going to happen. All right. And then are do the ladies look enthusiastic?
>> Uh are they saying what spend some time with my stepson? Sign me up.
>> They're not saying that are they? Right.
I know. It sounds horrible doesn't it?
It's just terrible.
>> Oh trucking my brother. [ __ ] yeah.
Let's go. Yeah.
>> You don't see that here, right? No enthusiasm.
>> No.
>> And specific. It's specific. I'll give you that. So, we got two out of the five. We've got reversible and specific, right? But it ended up not being reversible. It actually ended up happening. But like I said, all five have to all five fingers have to be met for there be there to be consent. And so, when it's not consent, what is it, Jay?
>> It's considered rape. It's grape.
Exactly. So, so are you telling me with your objective morality that when God prophesies and allows grape, that's objectively good?
>> Uh, so you're saying that he didn't he he allowed that?
>> He he Yeah, he allowed that. He could have stopped it, right?
>> Could have stopped it.
>> Could have not not let it happen. Could have let David get raped, right? He could have he could have let David get stoned according to Mosaic law, right?
>> He could have, >> how do I say this on your >> He could have uh David's kaboom. He could have >> Mhm.
>> He could have um >> Well, considering what happened to David after the whole rape incident, he was literally suffering.
>> Wait, hold on. Um No, he wasn't.
>> Yeah. Yes, he was. He He escaped to the desert. He escaped to the desert after being >> Who suffered worse? Who suffered worse, David or the ones who had to uh get with this >> stepson? Who suffered?
>> Yeah. The one the one who didn't actually have anything done to him and it was just his conscience. This is how you know like men is written for the Bible's written for men by men by men.
>> Because it's like, oh, these women get assaulted. Get over it. Nobody gives a [ __ ] These babies are dying. Oh, they're in heaven now. [ __ ] you. They're a little baby evil Draculite babies.
Okay. And then men's punishment is guys.
But he was really sad about it afterwards.
>> He was Yeah. He he didn't eat for several days.
>> Was sad.
>> Yeah.
>> His heart was very sad.
>> So back to your So so objectively this is not morally good. So you cannot have objective morality because if it was was objective morality defined by God that means grape is good when God allows it.
>> Even even objective morality defined by God is still subjective because God would be >> Exactly. But that was just me granting the the contradiction, right? Even if that were true, then that means that grape when allowed by God or commanded by God is good.
J Jay, your your best argument here, by the way, just to be your attorney for a moment, is to say like, actually, this book has nothing to do with me. And um this isn't my book to begin with, and I don't really know why I'm speaking about it to begin with.
>> Take the plea.
Take the deal.
>> All right. All right.
>> Let's let Let the Jews have to defend our uh our our shitty our shitty people and our, you know, >> Leave it to the Jews. When >> did I Okay, bro.
>> Wow.
Wow. And a $2 super chat from Rainbow Ash. God didn't just allow it, he coordinated it.
>> Yes.
>> This is the thing. Like this is it's not meant to be a morally good story. It's supposed to be a morally reprehensible story.
>> I know it's not. It's not.
>> So then why not engage with this as a reality? Like the reality is the Bible is not giving you what the what the core morality is. It's giving you the moral question. It's giving you the moral gray area. It's saying it begins, by the way, it begins the entire Bible in the second chapter of the the entire Bible is saying you have this ability to discern right from wrong and you should be asking more questions than you should be giving answers. That's the purpose of the text is that it is a it is a uh a question. There is a giant gray area of question and that it is up to us to interpret it because it is not something that's out in heaven. It's we have to live our lives. We have to be the ones who navigate the world and we're going to screw it up all the time and hopefully we learn from all our mistakes and we treat people better and we can you know we can improve uh through these moral great questions. That's the most important thing here. But because it's not you're not understanding that >> but it's definitely not objective as we have demonstrated to you. Well, hey, listen, uh, Jay, uh, >> yep, everybody, we are out of time and they voted to move on, but you've been actually a really good guest. I really appreciate you coming up and being a good sport.
>> I'll tell you this though, I'll tell you this. I will follow you, but want to know something that I am going to do for the for the This might seem weird. This might seem weird, but because you gave me such a good argument, I am going to essentially train myself into, you know, to the to the point where I can well, not just you, but I can surpass, you know, the whole cuz I'm relatively new to this whole debate thing if I'm being honest. It's, you know, kind of a hobby I picked up. But I am going to train just so I can, you know, wrestle with the fact that, hey, I'm not as good as I think I am. That's why I need to, you know, sparring partners essentially.
>> All right.
>> You could deconstruct these harmful ideologies. Um because you're not doing too well, but you know, you could you could be great as a person who talks about talks [ __ ] on God. um >> cuz you know, you did a good job bringing out some of the bad God stories. So, let me say you did a great job deconstructing uh some of the chat tonight.
>> But in terms of supporting God, >> I don't know. Um maybe you could find other hobbies.
>> Yeah. But you know what? Come back another day and we'll talk more. I got I got I got way more. But like I said, you can't guard me on this. It's just a fact.
>> That's why I'm training. That's why I'm in a train.
>> Training.
>> It's all good. All right. Well, Jay, appreciate you coming up. Enjoy the rest of your day and uh we'll talk soon.
>> Gotcha.
>> All right, >> kick me out of here. Let me know when you need me again.
>> All right, Bert, you're you're amazing, Rob. Thank you so much.
>> Thanks.
>> Thanks for answering the signal. All right, see you.
>> Take care.
>> So, yeah. So, uh that's my favorite one.
Born again. That's like my favorite as as the chat all knows. Like I just You know, 2 Samuel 12's just so brutal.
>> It's crazy. You Yeah, you did fantastic at explaining that, tying it in with the fries. Every time I've tried to bring up the the David one, I don't know if it's just my unmanly presence. Um, men just don't want to listen to it. So, I I thought you did a great job >> that Yeah.
>> Yeah. But, you know, it's okay. Um, yeah, they're [ __ ] But, you did a really really great job at explaining it. It made it made total sense. saying, "Honestly, that guy wrote it down and that's the best we could hope for is men learning what the hell consent is."
>> Yeah, exactly. That's that was like the big takeaway. Yeah, he wrote it down and and usually like the younger ones, that's what I like to do because again, >> that's good.
>> Yeah, >> it is good. And especially if you can um articulate in a way where they're receptive to it. I think that not only helps uh people who are listening and it definitely will help any person that they come in contact with in the real in the real world. So, >> exactly.
>> We do appreciate that. I think >> yeah, >> uh men holding men accountable is something we really need. So, that was fantastic.
>> Thank you. And you know, like I said, I got a 15-year-old daughter and so, you know, soon she will be walking out in the world by herself and so the more men who know about fries, the better it is for her and all people.
um everybody, you know, it's not Yeah.
>> No more victims, no more strain on the justice system, no, you know, cries about injustice, you know, cuz invariably there will be the Brock Turner who gets the probation and we don't want that, you know, if anything I saw.
>> Yeah.
>> Your video you just posted uh about men addressing abortion.
>> Yes.
>> I thought that was fantastic, too. I think you do a really good job at explaining things that usually when these topics come up um from a I guess from my perspective, usually men go on the defense, they think they're getting attacked and so because they're getting attack because they feel like they're getting attacked, I attack them harder.
>> Mhm.
>> Um as you should. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But I do think you you articulate the abortion topic argument and uh the consent one very well to where they're receptive. So I do appreciate the work here.
>> I appreci Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. Um it it's very important to me because um you know look I had you know cuz you know I was I was violated as a kid myself and so you know consent is a pretty big thing for me and I I you know cuz there was a time when I would let people pray and now I don't allow praying don't allow it at all because you know because there are some people who are seriously traumatized by that >> and so when I was seeing that going on in the chat. I was like, "Okay, no more.
No more of that. We're not we're not allowing that anymore."
>> I do appreciate.
>> Yeah, >> it's great.
>> It's it's it's super important. I think consent is like super super important.
And and yeah, I've watched your lives late at night at times and there have been times where I've just wanted to go up and just like just rail on a guy for I've seen so many things being said to you. Uh it's it yeah it just >> um >> so I just want you to know I see it.
>> I do appreciate that. Uh for me it's ex it's what do I want to say? Uh I know they are monsters. Uh especially during that time and because they are Christ followers. So I just let I just show people I know how people in these communities behave. So rather than just saying, "I bet you're an asshole," I just let them talk and I let the audience They're smart. So I let I let the coven put two and two together of like, "Oh, this does kind of make that people crazy and horrible."
>> Yeah. You let you let Yeah, you let you give them some rope. Oh, hey. Hey, daughter.
>> You want the box?
>> Yeah. Just put it down there. Yeah, just put it right down there.
>> I'll just put it >> Okay, that's cool. Thank you.
>> Awesome.
>> Thank you.
>> Appreciate you. Yeah. All right.
>> I I don't have to spoon feed the coven.
Uh they they they could see it. They're it's pretty obvious. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. I I do a lot of the same thing here. I just I just kind of let it Yeah. And just just kind of let the things, you know, I hold up the mirror.
That's like what I That's how I That's what I call it. I hold up the mirror.
>> Oh, that's fant what a fantastic way of describing that.
>> Yeah. And um Yeah, it's But I love your approach, though. Like I just love the way you you go at it. Yeah. Absolutely.
Um, and uh, so that's why I'm like just so happy you came on today because I was like, "Oh, this is just >> I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. You're fantastic.
Absolutely love >> everybody's presence in the deconstruction community. Yours is great. Everybody's great. I just came from Crystal Jay's life. Uh, obviously she's the queen bee, so she's fantastic for real.
>> Exactly. Exactly. So just glad we were able to join forces and, you know, >> Right. powers together. Absolutely.
>> And honestly, not a bad group of guests.
I'm a little jealous. You had some you had some strong Christ followers. I was like, "Hell yeah."
>> Yeah. Yeah. They were Well, I think whenever I run this uh this topic, yeah, the the strong ones come out. Um but I can't do it like more than like three or four days in a row because then they then it then it kind of dwindles. But um but then there's also like my mental health that's involved because there's only so many times I can hear somebody do grape apology. You know this I cannot listen to this again. Yeah.
>> Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um you know >> for me um it was hard at the beginning but I think >> what I did was when I got banned I took some time to kind of like say what's my prayer what's the goal here? Wrote it all down. And then now I have a system to where um everybody can have fun at the expense of making fun of whoever's on the panel.
>> So, >> well, we we've structured it in a way where it's not just kind of triggering all the time because these topics are horrendous. To hear a guy say some horrendous [ __ ] like, "You are my slave property."
>> That sucks. But, you know, uh I think we figured out a way to make it enjoyable for people to watch because these topics are hard, but they're so important to have.
>> Yeah. You know, >> exactly. Exactly. And what's fantastic about the morality argument is it can go anywhere. You can talk about free will.
You can talk about uh the age of the earth. You could talk about um science and evolution. All of these things kind of branch from that. So >> that's true. That's true.
>> If the great stuff gets heavy, I you know.
>> Yeah, it's pretty heavy. Well, I'm hoping I'm hoping we talk about animals.
That's like been that's been my other really like really favorite one to talk about. It's really hard for people to uh do that. Well, RP um You can just go now. We'll just We'll just We'll help you out there. You can just go now, RP.
So, I did you a favor. I just I just kicked you out of the the waiting queue.
All right, our planet. How you doing?
>> Oh, hi. I was making food. I was meant to join you.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But I I really enjoy your conversation and I follow born again aist also.
>> Are you a believer?
I am an atheist, I think.
>> Oh, you're an atheist. Okay. Well, we're saving the space for for believers, but you know, but I appreciate you coming up and, you know, showing some love to >> your Yeah, it was a pocket uh accident.
>> Oh, no. No worries. No worries. Yeah, no worries. But, yeah, we appreciate the support. Keep tapping, man. That's that's what you do. That's that's the way I know you were doing. So, keep tapping, my friend. All right, we're going to go to the next one. We appreciate you. Have a good one.
>> Have a good one.
>> Bye >> bye.
>> All right, so Oh boy, this could be this could be fun.
Let's bring up Bitter Truth. I think Bitter Truth's been on my live before.
>> Okay, >> maybe you're back. Bitter Truth. Yeah, you have. Okay. All right. Uh, can you remind us of your age and pronouns?
>> 35. He he him.
>> He him. Okay. Okay. Fantastic. And you're still a Christian?
>> Of course. Well, always will be.
>> I have no reason to ask me.
>> Oh, bless God.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow. Okay.
>> All right. Well, let's uh Okay. So, today we're talking about your evidence that God is not evil. So, what do you got for us?
>> Yeah. So, you there's no specific verse or chapter that can demonstrate that God is inherently evil or his actions is evil. what he does execute justice and it's righteous judgment. So yeah, he's not evil.
>> Okay. So he's not. So So let me hear let me hear what you just said. You said there's no specific verse that says God is evil. Therefore God is not evil.
>> Yeah. So and also he hasn't done any actions that would even allude to him being evil. He >> he does kind of admit he's evil like at least twice from what I can read. Um but you know Go ahead.
>> Yeah. So basically, yeah, he's not evil, but if if you have proof that he's either he admits he is twice, so maybe he's a liar. I'm not Well, anyway, go ahead.
>> Yeah, he kind of >> brought up David and his wives. And you can't really use that because you guys totally misunderstood that book.
>> We can't we can't use that. Why can't we use that? What What did we Okay, well, help us. Okay, help us understand. What did we misunderstand? Yeah, what did we get?
>> Oh, we just lost.
>> Yeah, we just lost. Well, should we just quit now? Born again.
>> I know. Yeah, I guess we're deleting our channels now cuz we changed.
>> Yeah. And I'm going to go to church on Sunday, I guess. Damn.
>> God damn it. Oh, man.
>> So, can we make a deal?
>> All right.
>> Help us out. When we How did we get it so wrong? Yeah.
>> All right. So, once I give you guys a proper breakdown of this chap, will you guys promise to never bring up the topic again saying that Absolon raped raped them? They or if I get it wrong, you just keep bringing it up. If I prove that you got incorrect.
>> Okay. So, he So, okay. All you this is all you got to do. This is just very simple. All you got to do is just point out the verse in which the wives gave consent. It's all you got to do.
>> Oh, easy, easy.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Just just show us just show us in the verse, the specific verse where the wives said, "Yes, Absalom, I want you."
>> Okay. So, then on the other hand, you have to show the verse where they said, "No, Absalom, no, don't do this."
>> I can say the same thing, but I can show where it's not great. Like you guys can any way, shape, or form that it was great.
>> All right. So, did the wives give consent? Yes or no?
>> Yes.
>> And I can show you how. Yes, I can tell you how they get.
>> Okay. Yeah. Just show us the verse.
That's all you got to do. It's really simple. Just Just point out the verse.
>> So, you're not going to see one specific verse.
>> Just like you're not find Just like you're not going to find one specific verse saying, "Hey, Abselon, don't do this to us." You're not going to find one specific verse where they say, you know, "Sure. Come on, Abselon. actually let's kind of frame this. Let's frame this a little bit. Let's frame this a little bit. Hold on. Hold on. Better truth. Let's frame this a little bit.
>> If um Okay. So, if uh let's just say um a man goes into you but you don't specifically say no. Have you given consent?
>> So, you say if a man comes up to a woman and >> goes no no no goes into you.
>> But let's just say Yeah. Let's just say you're at the you're at the gym and you know you drop the soap. You bend over to pick it up and boom. Oh, what was that?
Now, you didn't say no. So, did you give consent?
>> Approximately.
>> Okay. You didn't. All right. Now, but you didn't.
>> Yeah. But you didn't say yes either, right?
>> Yeah. I never say yes.
>> Okay. So were you were you So that means you weren't raped >> cuz you didn't give consent but you didn't not give you didn't you didn't give consent but you didn't not give consent so you weren't raped >> that in this in this in that would be on the forums agree but it's not analogous to absolutely >> how how so you just okay so >> it's not analogous >> it's not analogous because >> n >> because they because you're saying the wives did give consent >> yeah and I can show you how they gave consent Okay. Well, cuz you began with there's nothing in the Bible that says they didn't give consent.
>> Yeah.
>> So, wait. What do you think happened?
>> Can I show how to get consent? You got >> God made everybody just bang each other and what what's your belief here?
>> Sure. Can I can I explain what happened?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
You have to remember Abon was convincing everyone to make him king through flattery and kindness and kind words.
>> Yeah, we just need the we need the we need the verse >> and I will do this for you. Just need the verse.
>> Kiss me here and >> Okay, give me the verse.
>> Yeah, just give us the verses.
>> All right, one sec.
One sec. Let me just grab it.
>> Trust. You get to use You get to do your debating magic twice. It's going to be fantastic.
>> Yeah, people do try to think they can guard me on this one, but I'm undefeated on this.
>> So, uh, while he's looking it up, what's the consensus? Do Do Mocks think God brainwashed Absilum and then he took advantage or do like what's what's the what's the um what's the narrative that they come up with?
>> I get the free will. Yeah, that's what I get every time. It's free.
>> Okay.
>> So, if you turn to 2 Samuel uh 15.
>> 2 Samuel 15. All right.
>> Second Samuel 15. All right. And the verse.
>> Sure. Start from verse four. I'll read it. And Abselon said, "Moreover, oh that I were judge in the land that every man that had any suit or force might come unto me, and I would do him justice. And it was so that when any man came n to do him up obsience, he put forth his hand and took him and kissed him. And on this man of the epsilon to all Israel that came to the king for judgment. So Abselon stole the hearts of the men of Israel. So think about it at this time, man. Essentially, you know, Abselam, he he he's trying to become king. This this man is real. This David's son, he's Abselon's a good man, man. If he was king, wow. His name was likely. Okay. So now he's winning the hearts of everybody. The elders, the men. So the women now they hear the word Abselam is king.
>> Oh him. Oh abs. Yes. He's king. He's coming unto you. Really? The handsome Abselum.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Show me. Show me where it says here 15. Hold on. Hold on. The truth. You said that there was going to be a verse where the wives said, "Yes, I want Abselum. I want to be with my stepson." Yeah. You said that there was a speific evidence at all. That was great. It lean more towards consent because look, why would Abselon want people heart so kind is hating now time for grape? No, >> he wanted he got he got their hearts where he wanted through flattery. Hey now, it's time for grape. So >> like they would they would un lied to him because >> let me ask you better truth. Let me ask you this. So you are now if a if a uh let's just say you wanted to have relations with a woman and you try to have relations with a woman and she simply smiles at you. Do you have consent to continue?
>> If she's I mean I'll speak to her. Of course I'm not going to grab and start addressing her.
>> She says bitter truth you Okay. Let's just say you guys go on a date. You say, "And bitter truth, man. You're awesome.
You're such a great guy. You're this.
You're that. You're handsome. Oo, you're muscular. You work out. You know, you doing all these ab crunches and all that." And then, let's just say you guys are getting hot and heavy. And you, you know, you're getting to that point and she just simply smiles at you and says nothing else. Do you have consent?
>> Um, of course not. You know, I mean, some circum She said she she's enamored with you.
She's she's she's attracted to you. She you know you took her out to a great dinner. She's laughing at all your jokes, >> but you don't have consent.
>> Yeah, certain people may try, but she says no when you're trying no back off.
Like nobody's knows at all.
>> No, no, no. She didn't say no. She just she just simply says nothing. She says but she but all evening she has been she's been complimentary. She's she says you're handsome. She's attracted to you, >> says great dinner, laughs at all your jokes, you know, flirts with you. But >> I'm saying when it comes time, she says nothing.
>> Do you have consent?
>> When it comes time, oh, it mean like later on and she says nothing, you just >> do you move forward or do you stop?
>> I mean, you can keep trying, but you can't just find a way and just grab her and start undressing her. Of course, you communicate and say, you know, >> it's going to be communication. You're not going to just grab her and rip a shirt off.
>> Okay. So, yes or no. Do you have consent?
>> No. She got to agree with the >> No, you don't. Okay. And And why don't you have consent?
>> Because she didn't verbally give the the green light for you to you know.
>> I told you you can't guard me on this. I told you.
>> How verbal. You can't bring up situations that cannot >> because it is analogous. It is analogous bitter truth because I asked you to point out a verse in which the wife said to try to we want to be with you. We want to have sex with you and you did not provide that.
>> How easy is this for you? Another victory. Another one. So you promised to bring this topic up again.
>> You brought me.
>> Not only did I take you down, I dunked on you.
>> What am I like 90 and0 right now? I'm like 90 and0 against a [ __ ] Wow. So >> maybe 100 I think. So >> so >> another victory. So now we made a promise. We would never bring this up again because >> he got he got dunked on and he's like it's a victory. I got dunked on and it was a victory in this topic. So do you promise not to ever again bring it up?
>> Uh no cuz I just dunked on you. So no I will continue to bring this up.
>> I will continue to bring this up. But hey, I appreciate you coming up. All right. So go take your loss.
Seriously, it was just like I don't know if you watch basketball at all, but it was like >> beautiful layup.
>> Oh, it was it was it was not that. It was the it was the the kind of dunks where like you know the guy's like crotches in the other guy's face and he's all doing this and >> Oh, fantastic.
>> Yeah. And then he turns around he's like see I another victory. So you better promise never ever to do that again.
Like okay.
>> Hell yes. That That was fantastic.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, that was that was just so easy. That was so so easy. So, okay.
We've got one more in the queue. One more in the queue. Prince Aan Aison.
Prince. I'll just I'll just go with Prince.
>> Yeah. How you doing, man?
>> Hey, how you doing, Prince?
>> Good. Hey, listen, man. I'mma be brief.
I'm atheist. I'm 61, but I'mma be brief with this real quick. Okay.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Okay.
What I want to say is, man, almost a year ago, about eight months or so ago, >> Mhm.
>> I was I I came across your live and I typed in the chat, I don't know if you remember this. I typed in the chat, "There's no such thing as time."
And you said you said no, Prince Aison, you were wrong. There is such a thing as time, >> right?
>> Okay. Yeah. So, >> I don't remember that, but I I do.
>> Yeah, it sounds like something I'd say.
>> Yeah. So I got off and ever since then so I I I started coming across your live and and and every time I came across your live for the uh following months, right, I started listening longer and longer and longer, brother. You are brilliant.
>> Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. That's too kind.
>> Brilliant, man.
>> I appreciate that.
>> And now I listen to your show every I'm a truck driver. I listen to your show every night, >> bro. Wow. And thank you for doing the long haul, man. You are literally keeping our economy afloat. So, thank you.
>> Seriously.
>> Thank you, man.
>> I mean, yeah, you you you came up here to thank me. No, I should be thanking you because you're the reason we get groceries and vegetables and, you know, the things that keep us going. So, thank you for that, man. and you're you're work you're driving long miles, maybe sleeping in your cab, all that stuff, man.
>> That's just fantastic. Thank you so much for that. Thank you.
>> And so, the last thing I want to say, and this is a compliment, this is a good thing I'm about to say, >> you are the epitome of the word nerd, bro.
>> Yes, I am.
>> Shut up, nerd.
>> Yes, I am.
I am.
>> I appreciate all.
>> It's a trip how I I came across your show and and and the way all this happened, you know.
>> But All right.
>> All right.
>> That's all I wanted to say.
>> Well, thank you again. Um I It sounds like you're driving, so I do got to drop you, but I appreciate you, man. Yeah.
Thank you for the support. Appreciate you.
>> Oh, that was so nice. That was so kind.
Yes, I am a nerd. I am guilty. Guilty.
Wow. Thank you. That was so That was so kind of you to say.
>> Oh, that was so That was so kind to say.
That was so kind. Now, help me out here.
What? I Because see, I haven't caught the gist of the the the context of this uh outfit. The backwards hat, the mustache, you know, the tracksuit.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> That uh that's Pastor Mark.
>> Oh. That's Pastor Mark.
>> Okay.
>> Bless.
>> Okay. I got to I got to catch one of when you're when Pastor Mark is on. I got to I got to catch that.
>> So, >> that's awesome.
>> Pastor Mark, that's my pastor. Yeah. Uh Pastor Mark uh sometimes cuz listen, we go live every night. Sometimes we average six hours.
>> So, sometimes I need a break and Pastor Mark, he's an annoying little [ __ ] Uh he wants to come in and do a little sermon. And you know what? I'm I'm not above, you know, being mean, you know, you know, refusing his presence. So, he'll come up and do a little sermon, a little workout. He has a group called the Flesh Fighters.
Um, so they go and they they fight the flesh through things like physical fitness.
So, um, yeah, he's a little annoying [ __ ] So, he'll he'll do a workout with >> he'll do a workout with the flesh fighters on the live. You know, it's a good time for me to just decompress and take a break >> while he's on while he's on his >> [ __ ] Hey, >> if anybody wants to see if anybody wants to see who Pastor Mark is on my profile, uh the thumbnail is called the best of Pastor Mark, so you can watch.
>> Oh, okay. I'm gonna >> SP E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E SP threw a little edit together of the best of pastor Mark if you guys want to get him.
>> That is >> He's kind of an [ __ ] but >> love it. Okay, I'm going to I'm going to definitely watch camera. So, yeah, that's Pastor Mark.
>> That is awesome. So, that is awesome.
Okay, I'm going to I'm going to go through that. Definitely. I'm going to go through that playlist and and see that. Oh, that's amazing.
>> I love it.
>> Best of master. Oh, there's Espie.
Espie. E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E S E made that edit on my page.
>> That's awesome. Okay, fantastic. So, uh, looks like we don't have anybody in the guest queue and it is almost time for me to go anyway. So, man, this was so amazing. Um, this is the time I usually bring up the mods, um, to thank them because they're really the, you know, I'm like the weekend at Bernie's guy, you know, and the mods actually, they actually the ones that are like keeping me going because that's how I like to see it cuz >> that's cool. Yeah, they actually do the they actually do the work, like the actual work. And so I'm really really grateful for them. And so I bring them up so that people can gift and throw W's and all that good stuff. And uh so yeah, any other mods in there because I can't see the whole like there's Jessica.
Yeah. So everybody come up. Mods, come up. Come up. Come up. Come up. And um and then I also thank the mods on the t on the YouTube side. Um >> hello mods.
>> Yes. Uh, we have Rainbow Ash 666. We've got uh I know Pseudo V Science was in there earlier and K Webb was in there earlier. Looks like Oh, K Webb's there, but Rainbow Ash is holding it down all by herself. So, thank you so much. You guys are You guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
>> And Reckless Religion. Yes, you're here.
So, >> yeah, >> I know. Peg, there's >> not going to miss this.
>> There they are. Well, I'm glad you guys caught it. Yeah. Wasn't this amazing, guys? Wasn't this amazing?
>> Yay the mod.
>> Yes.
>> Not yay me. Yay the mod. Sorry.
>> Well, yay you too. Yay you too.
>> I I appreciate all the hard work for everybody uh keeping the lives safe because once once the deconstruction lives can be safe and active, we all enjoy and benefit from >> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Thank you guys so much for all you do.
>> Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, it's everything everything these everything these fine folks do, I'm so grateful for. They do such an amazing job of keeping >> they all match profile pictures. That's awesome.
>> Yeah. So they have great profile pictures and all that stuff. So yeah, thank you guys so much. And you know um but also to you born again atheists, man. Thank you so much. This was so freaking fun.
>> She's a house.
>> Yeah.
>> A thanks guys. You're so sweet.
>> Isn't she though? Yeah. So, >> and so again, if you're not following Born Again atheist, you you you absolutely have to because >> you probably have a normal sleep schedule.
>> Yes, I do.
>> But you know what? It's worth staying up a little while longer. You you can fall asleep to to Born Again atheist live stream. You can do that cuz my wife does that. My wife does that. So >> Oh, I love that.
>> She does.
>> Do you um do you put your streams on on YouTube? I do the best of uh the lives, but I don't stream directly because we do a lot of copyright stuff, so YouTube wouldn't let allow it. Um I I post the best of the best on the boarding atheist YouTube channel, but we don't stream on there.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. So, she does have a YouTube channel. So, um so yeah. So, you know what? Follow her YouTube channel, you know, subscribe. So, um so then she can get, you know, a little bit more revenue from that. you know, when she does post stuff, you know, that helps her out. So, absolutely. And it's and it's great stuff on there, too. I went through it, you know, last night doing a little recon, and it's it's some great stuff.
>> So, yeah. So, you're you're amazing. So, yes, let's do this again real soon. Um, you know, uh when when you're when you want to, you know, just let me know.
You're welcome up anytime. just come through standing up for women and you know >> the the people that matter because I mean you know these people's rights are getting taken away and it's not fair and every day you know for you to be another voice in this community is amazing >> you're so sweet >> absolutely absolutely so we need more voices like yours yeah strong voice like just >> like I'm >> in the middle of the goddamn night right in the middle of the damn night just just taking just getting in people's behinds like >> just freaking wrecking them up in the middle of >> just wrecking them just wrecking them. I love it. I love it. I love it. Love it.
Love it. Love it. So >> Oh, you're so kind. Thank you for welcoming in your space, guys. It's been a blast.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Like I said, you're welcome back anytime. And you know, I hope to have you back soon because this was so fun.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
>> All right. Well, everybody, uh, last thing. Who are we gonna raid now? But remember, we can do we can do a delayed raid on Born Again atheist tonight at starting when?
>> In a couple hours.
>> A couple hours. How about that? Okay. A couple hours until Yeah. And Yeah. The fact that you >> A couple hours potentially.
>> Potentially. Yeah. The fact that you got your pregame on with me, that's just that's that's awesome. So, >> yeah. Not bad. Not a bad way to start the day, not going to lie.
>> So, mark your mark your you know, set your timers, set your clocks, and yeah, when when >> potentially meet Pastor Mark tonight or you guys can go check out the best of Pastor Mark by SB.
>> There we go. There we go. And then in the meantime, we will let's see who we can else who we can support in the community. Um, let's see. Well, let's see. We've got Justin with Vulce. Holy crap.
>> That's awesome.
>> So yeah, that's awesome. I know we did I know we did Justin. We raided Justin yesterday, but Justin is on with Vuli.
We need to go. We need to go support Vuli as well. So let's go raid Deconstruction Zone because Vuli's on there and you know cuz Vuli is amazing, too. I got to have him on, too. I got to have him back, too. So, let's go raid. I know it's a two It's two days in a row we're going to do Deconstruction Zone, but he's on with Voli. Let's do that.
We'll go raid and uh we'll do it both on YouTube and Tik Tok. So, let's go.
>> All right. And then otherwise, guys, that's all I got for you.
>> Hi. Oh. Oh. Oh, it's it's it's Jessica's little Yay. And we got we got puppies.
We've got kids. Look at this. What a great great live. What a great way to end the live. This is amazing.
>> Yeah. He wanted to say hi.
>> Hi.
>> Hey, little man.
>> Hi.
>> Hi.
>> Oh. Oh, more of you. More of you. Hello.
Hello. The whole team.
>> Yeah, the whole team is here.
>> Yeah. Do you guys see the Do you guys see the dog >> right down there?
>> Yeah. Right. Right. Right there.
>> You see?
>> Yeah. Look at that. Cute dog.
>> Yay. What a great way to end a day in the life. All right. So, okay. Well, I'll see you guys all in the construction zone. Let's, you know, we'll do a TBB raid. Do it nice and strong. 10 toes, chest out, and and then I'll see you born again later tonight and I'll fall asleep.
>> Fantastic.
>> All right, guys. Have a great rest of your day. I'll see you later. Bye, guys.
To >> see you again, Borne again.
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