Celeb Feuds Deep Dive! SARAH JESSICA PARKER VS. KIM CATTRALL

本站添加: 2026-05-20

[00:00:05]Well, well, well. Welcome back to another episode of Pop Apologists, everyone. Today, we are getting back in an old groove.

[00:00:14]>> We're doing a deep dive today, everybody. We are. It has been far too long since we've sat down and really as historians, pop culture historians, all of our listeners are students of pop culture if not historians themselves >> really dug deep into the material.

[00:00:30]>> Yes.

[00:00:30]>> And mind our collective history for some pop culture learnings. We are cultural anthropologist.

[00:00:39]Anthrop cultural anthrop wow I have not said this word over.

[00:00:42]>> We are anthropologists for sure. anth cultural anthropologists. We are we are historians.

[00:00:49]>> We are >> researchers.

[00:00:50]>> We are women of STEM for sure.

[00:00:53]>> No, we are today talking about a very famous feud.

[00:00:58]>> Few feuds actually. So, this is going to be a little bit of a series that we're trying out. So, let us know if you like it. Um, we have done a lot of deep dives on like the great American romance of Tim and Faith, Haley and Justin. So, we've done a lot about people and they're coming together, but this one, this deep dive is more about the clashing of celebrity icons, okay? When they have come together and it has not resulted in fire and romance, but instead fire and brimstone. Yes, thank you for that. Uh, this is this is about friendship feuds. This is not about romantic relationships.

[00:01:33]>> This is a celebrity feud episode. We've heard the feedback that we're too promarriage and family.

[00:01:38]>> It's true. So, we are going to, you know, >> now we're going to talk about women fighting with each other.

[00:01:42]>> Yeah, exactly. So, without further ado, let's get into the famous feud that we are focusing on today, which is the longstanding tension between Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Patrol. I thought I knew a lot about this feud until I started doing the research and I discovered so many more interesting nuggets of information. I feel like I have a much better picture now and I'm so excited to dig in cuz I think this is, if not the biggest, one of the biggest feuds between co-stars on a major hit show. Let's get into it.

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[00:02:52]We've squabbled. We've tiffed. We've fought.

[00:02:54]>> What was it? Feuding implies like severe disagreements over things for like >> over a longstanding period of time.

[00:03:01]>> Yeah. It's never happened.

[00:03:02]>> Um I mean I think we feuded over stylistic choices.

[00:03:06]>> Yeah.

[00:03:07]>> My graphic TE's.

[00:03:08]>> Yeah.

[00:03:08]>> What else? I mean nobody really feuds with me.

[00:03:12]>> You're I mean you're very >> kind of unfeudable.

[00:03:14]>> Yeah. You have few feuds as a person which is great. Yeah.

[00:03:17]>> I would also say the same for myself.

[00:03:19]>> No, you are like feud.

[00:03:22]>> That is not true. No, you you like you just have stronger opinions about things I I think than I do.

[00:03:28]>> Okay. Well, >> and you kind of I think you live for the feud.

[00:03:30]>> I don't live for the feud. I am a very peaceful person. I'm very zen. People People love to say that.

[00:03:35]>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Extremely zen.

[00:03:38]No, you are. I'm just teasing you. But you I think you're more comfortable with like conflict than I am or with uh confrontation.

[00:03:43]>> I don't know how this just turned into like half like you know an indictment of me.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. I don't know. Somehow it just we end up there. Think can you think of a feud between us?

[00:03:53]>> My favorite comment was when someone said like Chandler was always so mean to Lauren.

[00:03:58]>> Yeah.

[00:03:58]>> Because you know one time it was nice for once to have someone stand up for me.

[00:04:04]>> Anyway, carry on. So, did you come to the table prepared with any future?

[00:04:09]>> No, I was hoping you could think of one.

[00:04:11]>> Well, I'm so peaceful. I let everything go.

[00:04:13]>> Sure.

[00:04:13]>> But I mean I think maybe our biggest fight >> Yeah. One of our biggest fights was over me telling on you like when you were listening to that Damen Rice song with the f word and the chorus.

[00:04:23]>> Yeah.

[00:04:24]>> I mean, I don't know how we ever came back from that because Lauren was in huge trouble.

[00:04:28]>> Why did you do that?

[00:04:30]>> You were listening to an inappropriate song and I could hear it through our shared bathroom. Just to paint a picture for everyone. I mean, this might not be interesting or funny at all, but to paint a picture for everyone, I was playing Damian Rice in my bedroom and he did have a song with an F-word in it.

[00:04:46]>> And F word in it.

[00:04:47]>> It's nothing to you. And if you hate me, you know what's so interesting about that is I was probably 14, you know, listening.

[00:04:54]>> Cuz I think I thought you could drive cuz I think you were like maybe 15 or 16. Okay.

[00:04:58]>> Far too young to be listening to a song like that.

[00:05:00]>> Who was I directing that energy towards?

[00:05:02]>> I don't know. Oh, I have no idea. And you had like a speaker that was basically an amp.

[00:05:06]>> So, she wasn't even trying to be koi about it. It was like probably on full blast on the amp.

[00:05:10]>> So, did you feel like it was like harming your spirit and you wanted it off?

[00:05:13]>> Yes. I wanted it off. I wanted Get the hints.

[00:05:16]>> So, I thought you were just being annoying.

[00:05:17]>> No, I ran straight to mom's room.

[00:05:20]>> Anyway, so because of this song, you are so annoying. I was forbidden from listening to any Damen Rice. And Damen Rice was like one of my high school obsessions.

[00:05:30]It actually would be really annoying if mom then forbid you from listening to your favorite like singer and favorite band.

[00:05:36]>> I had to rename every song, not just him, his name in my iPod, but also every song cuz I was afraid you would Google the songs, the song names. That took a lot of time. There was like over a hundred probably songs.

[00:05:51]>> So anyway, um, everyone, yeah, that was a famous feud of ours and trailer and I really didn't become close until until college. We were I guess constantly feuding in high school.

[00:06:00]>> I would not say we were friends.

[00:06:01]>> You were again a pure Christian girl and I was >> heathen [ __ ] >> Kind of a [ __ ] So I mean not really but I was I was a secular young woman. I was definitely like on my romantic path though.

[00:06:13]>> Yeah. I I it was very much so like you were like living this like you know I live a >> literature. It was literally that I live a very different life than you and you like you were reading literature. You're reading books.

[00:06:25]>> So annoying. like just so pretentious and so annoying. So pretentious >> and then I was just like wearing high top Converse and >> and reading the Book of Mormon.

[00:06:32]>> Reading the Book of Mormon.

[00:06:33]>> Well, that was a great experience for you.

[00:06:35]>> And that was Yeah, that was a chapter of my life and I have no regrets.

[00:06:39]>> Well, I'm glad you feel that way. Um, you know, and honestly, it just made all my Damian Rice listening that much more like devilish and delicious. So, it's all good.

[00:06:47]>> Delicious. All's well that ends well.

[00:06:49]>> And you know, our parents always say that like their greatest gift is the fact that we're all good friends.

[00:06:54]>> True. You know, and there was a strong tattletail culture in our house. There was >> growing up. So, it's it's a miracle we've made it out and and that we're all like BFFs.

[00:07:03]>> Well, let's talk about two people who are definitely not BFFs. You ready?

[00:07:07]>> Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Catrol.

[00:07:09]>> Yes.

[00:07:10]>> So, let's rewind to June 1998.

[00:07:13]>> Mhm.

[00:07:14]>> Sex in the City premieres on HBO. I'm 8 years old. You are three.

[00:07:18]>> Oh, I was about to say I'm just a twinkle in mom and dad's eye, but I was actually three.

[00:07:21]>> You were three. Yeah. So, trans walking.

[00:07:23]Um but definitely walking speaking as well sadly but um no so Sex in the City premieres we are obvious we don't even know it's on right because >> I wouldn't I wouldn't know about Sex in the City until I was maybe 17.

[00:07:36]>> HBO was not allowed in our house.

[00:07:38]>> I HBO might as well have been like porn house.

[00:07:41]>> Yeah absolutely. So anyway for those not living under a rock in a Mormon rock in San Coloney like me and Chandler Sex in City had premiered and it was a cultural obsession.

[00:07:51]>> Yes. The show followed four single women in New York as they navigated friendship, work, fashion, and the often chaotic search for love, or at least one emotionally available man.

[00:08:02]>> Are you a huge Sex in the City fan? I guess.

[00:08:04]>> Yes, I love Sex in the City. I can't remember like what chapter I was in when I watched all of it, but I definitely had like a bingy Sex in the City moment.

[00:08:12]Yeah. And I find it to be great comfort TV. It is good comfort TV, but I do find like I also binged it at one time, but it's not really a part of my personality. It's not something that I, oh, I don't think about it a lot. It's not something that's like a huge part of me. And I do think there's a lot of girls that it it's like they watch it all the time. They know every scene.

[00:08:33]They post the gifts. Like they love Sex in the City, >> right? I think for you that's Grey's Anatomy.

[00:08:39]>> I mean, I do love Grey's Anatomy. Yeah.

[00:08:41]I think like if if you're going to be referencing a TV show that you know was important to you.

[00:08:45]>> It's kind of embarrassing though.

[00:08:47]>> No, it's not. It's fine. I can't actually I can't think of mine.

[00:08:49]>> Yeah.

[00:08:50]>> But anyway.

[00:08:50]>> Anyway, just was curious about that.

[00:08:52]>> Well, I want to ask you another Sex in the City related question.

[00:08:55]>> Do you feel like you're a Carrie, a Samantha, a Charlotte, or a Miranda?

[00:08:59]>> I mean, I think that >> Oh, actually, I know what my show is.

[00:09:03]Sorry to interrupt you. I think my show is Girls.

[00:09:05]>> Oh, yeah. Girls. I think Girls like I know like the back of my my hand >> and that show I think about a lot.

[00:09:11]>> Yeah.

[00:09:11]>> Anyway, sorry.

[00:09:12]>> Girls is an iconic very good show and I would also consider that one of my major major shows. Um anyway, I think that I am a Charlotte inside with a Samantha exterior.

[00:09:25]>> What What do you think?

[00:09:27]>> You like are constantly worried about like skin showing.

[00:09:32]Like I think you dress pretty modestly for a Samantha on the outside. You do you think I dress pretty modestly?

[00:09:37]>> I think I think everyone is a little bit delusional in their characterization of themselves within the sex of the video.

[00:09:42]>> So, what do you think I am? Let's keep talking about me.

[00:09:44]>> Well, I'll I'll talk about myself cuz I don't want to offend you, but I'll say that I think I am a Charlotte through and through basically with like >> You are Charlotte >> with tinges of Miranda. Not and just like that Miranda.

[00:09:57]>> Yeah, you are very Miranda now that you say that.

[00:09:59]>> I don't know. I just think I'm a little bit like uptight. I think that Charlotte and I are like maybe the most similar in our sensibilities. I would like to think that I bring Carrie or Samantha energy when I, you know, sit down to brunch with the girls. Yeah. But in in terms of my everyday life, I really think I'm I'm a cross between Miranda and uh Charlotte.

[00:10:15]>> Well, that's very self-aware of you.

[00:10:17]>> So, do you want to have another moment of self-awareness and try again?

[00:10:20]>> I'm not good at that. I'm not good at being self-aware. Yeah.

[00:10:22]>> Um, no. I I definitely think I kind of stand by interior Charlotte exterior Samantha.

[00:10:28]>> Can I say something too? What? I think everyone thinks they're like a Samantha >> in the sack. Well, I don't think that.

[00:10:34]No, it's just more about like, you know, how I chat with the girlfriends.

[00:10:39]>> Yeah.

[00:10:45]>> Okay.

[00:10:46]>> Okay.

[00:10:46]>> You know, I'm not a Samantha at all.

[00:10:48]>> Yeah. No, this is why I'm trying not to offend you on the air, but you are not a Samantha. I'm more of a Samantha.

[00:10:53]>> You are way more of a Samantha than me.

[00:10:55]Yeah. I'm basically just Charlotte.

[00:10:57]>> Yes. But maybe Carrie because I she writes and I you know I like I'm I >> you are you had you had a literary phase.

[00:11:04]>> I have I'm I'm introspective like Carrie.

[00:11:07]>> Yeah.

[00:11:07]>> I used to be.

[00:11:08]>> Yeah.

[00:11:09]>> Like over a decade ago.

[00:11:11]>> Yeah. You know and I think I think too something our culture has come to reckon with is the fact that maybe Carrie is not even the best character to model yourself after because Carrie wasn't always the greatest friend. She was a little self-absorbed.

[00:11:21]>> Yeah. No, that's absolutely correct.

[00:11:23]>> So anyway, I don't think I don't think it's wrong to be a Charlotte. I actually found Charlotte to be very, you know, sensitive and warm.

[00:11:29]>> Charlotte's lovely and Charlotte loves bald men, which I love.

[00:11:33]>> Exactly.

[00:11:34]>> Bada bing, bada boom.

[00:11:36]>> It's handled.

[00:11:37]>> So, the series ran for six seasons from 1998 2004 and later expanded into two films. All right. And then the sequel series and just like that.

[00:11:48]>> And just like that, I don't know if I'm ready to talk about it just like that yet. But over time, the rumors of off-screen tension between Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Catrol couldn't be ignored. For years, the cast largely kept things polished in public, and both women push back on feud rumors for as media attempts to pit women against each other. But then in 2017, things shifted and the story became much harder to dismiss.

[00:12:12]>> Something crazy here is that we have like both of the women on the record talking about the friendship. We don't just have super vague things to pull from. We have like >> Sarah Jessica Barker talking about it when we have Kim Catrol talking about it on the air. We have Instagram posts >> calling like each other out.

[00:12:30]>> We literally have statements >> multiple statements from each woman which is so great that this deep dive isn't another one where we're like, "All right, this is another email to Duma."

[00:12:38]You know, this is a comment on Reddit.

[00:12:39]>> There there's not a ton of grasping at straws. Um, but before we get into their back and forth, let's begin with who these women were before the feud, you know, prefud. So, before Sex in the City became Sex in the City, uh, the shoes, the quotes, you know, the entire Carrie Bradshaw of it all, Sarah Jessica Parker had really already made her debut and like kind of had kind of built a serious career. She had been working for years in like the TV and theater industry. She had like total name recognition. And something interesting that we'll get to is it was a little bit of a risk for her to take on this show because at the time, and this will be a little hard for us to recognize in our day and age, but TV wasn't necessarily a uh on the same level as as as film. It was kind of like a step down >> in some ways.

[00:13:27]>> Um versus now I feel like it's all kind of people are in everything >> for sure. Yeah. And I I actually remember I don't remember which actor was talking about it, but it was m it wasn't Brad Pitt, but it was some really incredible actor and basically they were being asked about being on a television series and they were just saying that >> there's so much more time in a television series to develop a character and to build a plotline and to tell a story. So you just get to do so much more like real work in that way versus a movie where everything has to be done in two hours. It was really just this A-lister kind of like justifying being on TV. So, it really used to be this thing that was like way way less esteemed.

[00:14:06]>> Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:14:07]>> And all the best writers only were on movies.

[00:14:09]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:10]>> Anyway, for all of the for all of our young bucks listening, we want to tell you about tell you about the past. If you're a longtime listener of the show, you know Chandler and I love early bird CBD gummies. And I will tell you why.

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[00:16:14]That's omahastakes.com code pop. Terms apply. See site for details. So when it came to Sarah Jessica Parker joining Sex in the City, this is something very critical that I did not know about until we, you know, did the research on this.

[00:16:29]>> She kind of had a phenomenal contract from the get- go. Her agents, her lawyers, whoever, you know, was in her in her circle, uh, really negotiated a great contract for the character of Carrie Bradshaw. So, you know, that was from things like her salary to literally the amount of times she had to cuss.

[00:16:45]>> Yeah.

[00:16:46]>> Uh to the amount of sex scenes, nudity, um the line that she's allowed to keep all of her characters clothing, shoes, and accessories.

[00:16:53]>> I mean, insane.

[00:16:54]>> Insane. Absolutely.

[00:16:55]>> I mean, you and I always say we'd never do TV. No one's asking.

[00:17:00]>> We've never said that. And we absolutely would. Although I I would I would not want to see myself try to act because it would be pretty bad. The idea of being able to keep all of your wardrobe in >> it makes me sick for jealousy.

[00:17:13]>> How much all of that is now worth as well because it was part of the series.

[00:17:17]It's not just that it's like archival Chanel from ex from X season.

[00:17:21]>> You actually got to stop talking cuz I'm like like >> it's also made so it's so valuable because she wore it on screen. So it's she really made so much money and then she made so much also money in in the form of this clothing and accessories.

[00:17:38]>> So yeah, it was a really a sweetheart deal if you will. So this can be contrasted with Kim Catrol's contract.

[00:17:44]So when she enters Sex in the City and her negotiations, she's not ex she's not the star that SJP was at the time. She was an established actress and she did already have a career as a film veteran with lots of TV credits but she wasn't a household name so she did not have the leverage at all and also the show was built around this character of Carrie Bradshaw.

[00:18:05]>> So Sarah Jessica Parker she's the lead the narrative center and really without her there is no show. Yeah. and from the beginning she was a producer. Whereas Kim Catrol she's on the ensemble and her character does become iconic and indispensable to the show on many levels but it's not the same as being the lead and also this like crazy household name who can negotiate an amazing contract.

[00:18:28]>> Yeah, Carrie Bradshaw is the lead. Uh, but I think what what happens with Kim Catrol and where this gets to be, you know, more uh complicated is that she became like the fan favorite where people just loved her character. She really was, I think, like one of the more interesting characters on that show and and she was so perfect for it. She did such an amazing job of being uh Samantha. And this actually reminded me of potentially just as huge of a feud, a modern day feud, >> okay, >> between none other than Taylor Frankie Paul and Dei, >> the fan favorite, >> right, >> versus the icon that was already a household name that the show was built around, >> right? That >> if you'll remember.

[00:19:12]>> Yeah, I honestly everything repeats itself. Okay, this we're historians.

[00:19:17]>> Yeah, we absolutely are. Thank you for drawing this parallel. Please elaborate.

[00:19:20]Well, if you'll remember, Lauren, Dei says like, "I was the fan favorite. I am the fan favorite." And she's jealous of Taylor kind of getting all these brand deals and Taylor getting a lot more money for the show than she is um in the last season or the season before this last season.

[00:19:35]>> Yeah.

[00:19:36]>> Uh and so anyway, I just I couldn't help but think of of these women.

[00:19:39]>> Our cultural anthropologist has clocked in everyone. And I hope you I hope you're appreciating. Um, I also want to say that this, you know, these narratives diverge, however, in how the lead treated the fan favorite feelings of jealousy or envy or wanting because, you know, Dei tried to leverage her fan favorite status for more money than everyone else, whereas Taylor Frankie Paul insisted everyone get paid equally.

[00:20:06]She did not want a contract where she got paid much more than everyone else.

[00:20:09]And SJP didn't exactly handle it that way.

[00:20:12]>> Yes. And I'll just add too here that Dei kind of sank her own ship because she then became very odious and lost her spot as fan favorite when she, you know, got a little too big for her britches, right?

[00:20:23]>> So anyway, you know, everything relates back to The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

[00:20:28]>> So true.

[00:20:28]>> But let's get into kind of, you know, more about this feud and and how the money of it all really tied into everything. Yeah. So during the show's original 1998 to 2004 run, fans and audiences were not aware of any onset issues or feuds between SJP and Kim Control. So for six years, nobody had any idea.

[00:20:46]>> Correct. It wasn't until September 2004 that the public noticed that something was off between the cast. So they all go to the Emmys and essentially Cynthia Nixon, Kristen Davis, and Sarah Jessica Parker all sit together, but Kim Catrol sits by herself. It was then that, you know, I wouldn't call them online sleuths. I think this was before the internet, but um >> early days for sure.

[00:21:11]>> Early days of the internet, excuse me.

[00:21:12]Yeah, cuz that's the dot bubble was like in 08, right?

[00:21:15]>> I don't know. I was just tooodling around, barely walking, barely speaking.

[00:21:19]>> Dialup Sleuth figured out that not all was well on the set of Sex in the City.

[00:21:24]And it became clear that everything wasn't super chummy.

[00:21:27]>> I mean, Kim was asked and she said, "Are we best friends?" No, we're professional actresses. We have our own separate lives. So the question is, was it about money? And so let's talk about the money. So Sarah Jessica Parker made a crazy amount of money on Sex in the City, everybody. So according to celebrity net worths, uh she earned about 50 million 50 million for the first three seasons of Sex in the City.

[00:21:53]And then she became a producer in time for season 4 where she started to then make 3.2 million per episode. That means that over the course of 46 episodes in seasons four through six, she took home 147 million plus 15 million for the first Sex in the City movie and 20 million for the second Sex in the City movie and then over 1 million per episode for And just like that. So let's contrast that with Kim Catrol who made $350,000 per episode during the peak of Sex in the City, $7 million for the first movie, 10 million for the second movie, and 1 million for a cameo in just like that. So there's a huge pay gap between these two.

[00:22:32]>> Yeah. SJP just makes a phenomenal amount of money, makes so much. And Kim Catrol, you know, she makes a great amount for for anyone, but compared to SJP, it's a lot that's a lot lot lower. I mean, 350K compared to 3.2 million per episode, SJP is making basically 10 times what she's making.

[00:22:53]>> Yeah. A couple things here I want to pause on. I think that with Sex in the City, this is not a show where it's kind of only about this one person, then we kind of get glimpses of her other best friends. Like, it really feel it really follows four different women and we explore their story lines. We explore their day-to-day life in every episode.

[00:23:11]You know, they have scenes, big scenes.

[00:23:13]And so I guess like that really to me makes the pay discrepancy feel worse >> because while it is based around Carrie Bradshaw, it isn't not based around the other characters. They're not really secondary actors in my opinion.

[00:23:29]>> Well, and I think >> I don't know if that's a term, but yeah.

[00:23:31]>> No, that's absolutely correct. And I do believe that Samantha was so commanding on screen. She was such a scene stealer.

[00:23:39]So, not only was there basically equal air time for everyone, but Samantha is kind of she's not only giving a lot more than SJP in certain ways, which we'll get into, but I would say she's serving more than SJP. She's just a I think she's a literally a more captivating character and actress and carried that show in a big way. No pun to carry.

[00:24:02]>> I pun intended.

[00:24:03]>> Like, think about Sex in the City without Samantha >> and it just it's not the same at all.

[00:24:08]Whereas I think that honestly any of those other girls are kind of irreplaceable in comparison. It's just like pure charisma >> and just like somebody perfect for the character that's written for them, >> you know. Um, so, okay, so that's one thing I wanted to hang on for a second, but then we have to remind ourselves, and we'll we think we'll get into a little bit more of this later on, but SJP really had an amazing contract from the get-go, which sort of allowed these massive leaps in her salary, and they were already set up for her. So, like, they didn't know that the show was going to be this big. She was just really set up for success from from the start.

[00:24:46]>> So, there were also other dynamics at play. So Sarah Jessica Parker and Cynthia Nixon knew each other in their pre-teen days when they were acting on Broadway together, and they quickly included Kristen Davis essentially in their little friend group when the when the show started. Um, but for the first couple years, Kim was really not part of that group at all. And she had her own friend on set, which was her ally, and the series creator and producer Darren Star. But he leaves during the second season and was replaced by Sarah Jessica's friend, Michael Patrick King.

[00:25:17]And Kim Kim basically goes from having her own close friend and confidant who's also the creator of the show, but not really being part of the girl group to having no one.

[00:25:28]>> And that would be a a very brutal thing to go through.

[00:25:32]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were stories kind of coming into the tabloids about onset tensions, you know, that people didn't really talk to Kim, not even like in the makeup room, and there were some mean girl dynamics.

[00:25:44]>> Um, and then, you know, Kim gave an interview in 2004 that really set the record straight, or at least according to her, talked about what this whole real issue was about, which was money.

[00:25:55]Yeah. Yeah. So, she sits down with Jonathan Ross on his program, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross, and she says, "I felt after 6 years, it was time for us all to participate in the financial windfall of Sex in the City." When they didn't seem keen on that, I thought it was time to move on. At the time, the show did not move forward with a seventh season or a movie. So, the show ends >> because Kim wants pay parody.

[00:26:18]>> Yeah.

[00:26:19]>> She wants everyone to receive the same amount. Yeah.

[00:26:21]>> She wants to go in the way of Taylor.

[00:26:22]She wants the Taylor Taylor Frankie Paul plan.

[00:26:25]>> Yes.

[00:26:26]>> Okay. Um and everyone else wants the SJP plan and >> or everyone else is comfortable rocking the boat, >> right? Or maybe not saying that they'll make less so that everyone can make the same amount.

[00:26:37]>> Yeah.

[00:26:37]>> And I think that, you know, it's one thing where you sign on to a show and yes, you are an actress with pedigree, but you're not a household name. You don't have the same prestige. you kind of I mean it clearly bothered Kim a lot but there's you can rationalize why things are the way they are >> but I think you go six years in and this show has gone from this you know this just this pilot to this cultural phenomenon this show that has completely overtaken pop culture has become so popular it's not taken over the zeitgeist the show is the zeitgeist >> and I understand how Kim would say okay well now It's really time as someone who's basically carrying this show or who's been an integral part of it. Yes.

[00:27:23]To at least have equality and pay with the other women. It's kind of like she's getting punished for not being as big of a star from the get-go.

[00:27:32]>> Mhm.

[00:27:32]>> Like over like over those six years. Do you know what I'm saying? It's it's still coming back to bite her even though this show is like she is now an A-lister because of this show and she's she's such a main she's been such a main part of the show. Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:27:45]>> Yeah, I do. And maybe that would kind of make sense at the beginning, >> but it doesn't make sense. And you can understand why she's so frustrated after when she has really been a huge part, an integral piece of the recipe in what has made this show just hit it out of the park.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:01]>> But yeah, so I understand why she was like, "No, I'm not going to do it anymore unless I pay the same as everyone else."

[00:28:07]>> So, a report in the Telegraph in 2008 addressed the rumors that SJP and Kim had long-standing tensions over money.

[00:28:14]So SJP was given executive producer credit back in the second season. Back in the second season, this bumped her salary up and this reportedly caused Kim to negotiate for a higher salary. And then it was also reported that crew members said the girls were not happy about this and they wouldn't even sit with her at meal times.

[00:28:29]>> But then it's so weird to why would the girls care that Kim is being her own advocate?

[00:28:34]>> I don't know. Maybe it was annoying SJP.

[00:28:37]Maybe it was just rocking the boat. I kind of get the sense here that there's like >> people love SJP. People say that she's so lovely in person. There's all these wonderful reports. I don't doubt that she is a great person.

[00:28:47]>> She might also kind of have like >> a cult following friend-wise where it's like you're just kind of like in my boat or you're not.

[00:28:52]>> She's the queen bee.

[00:28:53]>> She's the queen bee. Yeah.

[00:28:54]>> And people are afraid to go up against her. And maybe there's something where Kim Catrol is not necessarily one to very easily be the beta of someone's alpha.

[00:29:06]>> Yes. I I could see Kim Catrol being like uh alienating.

[00:29:09]>> Yes. And so she gets ostracized essentially from SJP and the friend group >> Blair Waldorf style essentially as the queen bee and this dynamic is created on set where they won't even eat with her.

[00:29:22]It's really sad.

[00:29:23]>> It is sad. So then in June of 2008, so just a month later, Kim was asked by a reporter from Marie Clair about the rumor that she was the hold out on making the first movie. And Kim says in response, quote, "4our years ago, I was going through a painful public divorce.

[00:29:39]The series was coming to an end and my father was diagnosed with dementia. I felt it was time to be with my real family. A year and a half ago, when I was sent the script, I was ready and strong enough to revisit Samantha. In some ways, I'm glad we waited. The script and the experience of making the movie was the best possible reunion." In the same interview, Darren Star, the creator of the series, touched on the rumored drama. He said, "I think you have to draw the line between what's happening in Gossip Colums and what's happening on a set. You can't create that kind of chemistry when you do a series for so many years. You can't fake it completely. So, I think here what we see is that, you know, initially she wasn't ready to film the movie. That's why, you know, she was like dealing with family stuff, but then, >> you know, then she's ready to revisit Samantha and then it ends up being the best timing possible when they do film that movie. And, you know, and then Darren Star says like, you know, if you're watching the movie and you can like and see how much they enjoy being together, like you can't fake that, I think is what he's saying. you know, like you can't fake that kind of chemistry. And so then things kind of seem to be like okay >> cuz it's like they made the next movie.

[00:30:41]>> Um but then well and gives a lot of quotes or quite a few quotes to dispel any rumors. So in 2008 SJP gives a quote when they when they're asked about um the timing of the movie and she says, "Honestly, we are all friends and I wish I saw more of Kim. She mentioned money and no one should vilify her for it.

[00:31:00]people made a decision that we had vilified her.

[00:31:02]>> So, she's kind of saying it was about money, but she's saying we didn't we're not, you know, the people who vilified her. You guys did that. You made this into that type of thing.

[00:31:10]>> Exactly. Um, and then she also says to L, she says, "I don't think anybody wants to believe that I love Kim. I adore her. I wouldn't have done the movie without her. Didn't and wouldn't."

[00:31:19]Um, so this is a big contrast from the New York Magazine article that said that SJP and Kim were no longer speaking.

[00:31:25]quote making everyone on the set on the new Sex in the City movie uncomfortable.

[00:31:30]So, what we get into here um kind of after the movie in 2010 is both of them alluding to things but not really saying anything. Kind of saying like it was exhaust it was an exhausting time and sort of blaming the tabloids for inferring more, you know, than they should have. Yeah, there's just a lot of implications. Well, I'll just actually read the quotes. So, basically, SJP discussed the struggles of long days on set and stresses that all is well. She says, "When you're on set, you're working 90our weeks. You're never home.

[00:31:59]You're exhausted. There are times when all of us have been sensitive and sometimes feelings get hurt, but I don't have any regrets about how I've treated people." Kim said, "The chemistry among the four of us is very strong." She called the rumors of the feud sexist.

[00:32:13]She said, quote, "Because the press has to put women in these boxes rather than show them as the movie portrays, working together and being powerful. Things just have to be explosive for no other reason than for people's imaginations." So, fast forward six years and SJP is on Howard Stern and she discusses the feud rumors. She says, "Was everyday perfect?" No, but this is a family of people who needed each other. This sort of narrative, this ongoing fight, it really used to confound me and really upset me. Okay. So, I'm curious here because I'm wondering when all of these movies happened. So, Sex in the City 1 was released in 2008, I believe, >> and Sex in the City 2 was released in 2010.

[00:32:51]>> Okay. So, then I think between 2010 and 2016, there's really nothing happening in the Sex in the City sphere, >> right? Yeah. It's just it's just interesting to me because >> I I'm sure things happen though behind the scenes because things get much worse, >> you know? Like that that's the crazy thing is that we have all these kind of like light vague discussions of it.

[00:33:13]>> Um that all sort of like attempt to tie a bow on things and you know chalk it up to stress or to whatever and then things get way messier.

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[00:36:07]So basically there's this narrative that she is asking for other projects to go ahead if she's going to sign on. She's being a huge problem, right?

[00:36:19]>> Yeah.

[00:36:19]>> And Kim's saying, "I just said I didn't want to do it."

[00:36:22]>> Yeah. Like I I declined this a year ago, >> right?

[00:36:24]>> And we don't know what we don't know the truth.

[00:36:27]>> Yeah. Exactly. It's just he said, she said.

[00:36:29]>> I think we should play where SJP goes on Howard Stern where she talks about >> Kim. Does it still annoy you that the perception is that you and Kim Catrell didn't get along in that show? And you've said a million interviews, hey, I have no beef. She has no beef with me. I don't know where that came from. So, where does something like that come from?

[00:36:45]>> I don't know. It used to really confound me and and really upset me because, >> you know, we were part of a family of Sopranos and nobody ever questioned the relationships of the men on that show and no one ever said to them, "Did you hang out this weekend with each other or did you give each other Christmas presents or uh what what message did you send? Was every day perfect? Were people always desperately hopelessly in love with each other?" No. But this is a family of people who needed each other, relied upon each other, and loved each other. And the sort of narrative, this ongoing cat fight. It really used to really really not even irk, it really upset me. It was usually about like bad behavior on the set and I take very seriously my reputation. Like I work really hard and I treat people well and I have, you know, a work ethic that's very meaningful to me and it's based on the affection I feel for the people that I get to work with. And to suggest that I'm behaving poorly or not treating somebody well, >> that's not you. is like it's not it's not even like it's not me. It's so anathema that it would drive me bananas.

[00:37:50]>> What does that word mean?

[00:37:51]>> I think it just means like the opp it's so opposite to how the way the way you are. But let's look it up.

[00:37:55]>> Ana anathema I've heard of it before is because it was on the OC.

[00:37:59]>> Oh, who says Anna in the OC says anathema and then um the dad, what is his name?

[00:38:06]>> Oh, sorry. Hold up.

[00:38:09]>> Oh, no. Oh, someone something or someone that one vehemently dislikes. So it's Yeah. I mean, well, not not really opposite of you, but something you really dislike. So, it's anathema to you. It's something you hate.

[00:38:21]>> Okay.

[00:38:21]>> Racial hatred was anathema to her.

[00:38:24]>> Ah, very good.

[00:38:25]>> Okay. Very good. Very well.

[00:38:26]>> Yeah.

[00:38:27]>> So, what do you think about that quote?

[00:38:29]>> I mean, I I think that it's tough cuz I find SJP to be super super likable.

[00:38:35]>> I just think that she's bullshitting there. Like it seems to me highly unlikely that there wasn't mean girl energy, that there wasn't you can't sit with us vibes. I think my read is that >> Kim really despised the contract setup at the beginning >> and really that got to her head and it made her very much dislike SJP. SJP reacted to someone disliking her kind of appropriately, like not really wanting to develop that much of a relationship, and then it just kind of kept spiraling into more and more of a cluster.

[00:39:10]>> Neither of them >> neither of them decided to be the bigger person and try to, you know, mend fences.

[00:39:15]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:16]>> So, what do you think?

[00:39:18]>> Yeah. I think I struggle with the same thing that you struggle with because I do know that SJP is so beloved like among celebrity friends.

[00:39:25]>> Yeah. You know, I always pay attention to who celebrities are all friends with, and I feel like she is just friends with a lot of different celebrities. Like, I I see her having very real relationships with other celebrities behind the scenes, you know, and that makes her >> seem like a real person and like a a girl's girl or at least like just just, you know, a good person.

[00:39:44]>> Yeah. I mean, >> and maybe I buy too much into that, but sorry, I do. No, I mean I think that I just feel like there is a reality where SJP could have felt slighted or bugged by Kim Catrol taking the the contract stuff note personally. It's not it's not Sarah Jessica Parker's responsibility to make sure that Kim Catrol is being paid as much as her at the beginning of Sex and City or even throughout it like you know those are business negotiations that you're supposed to make, right? And so on some level, I can understand how she would maybe feel like, you know, you're you're not treating me that well.

[00:40:20]You're not being super warm and fuzzy to me. I'm not getting Christmas presents, so why am I going to be that way to you?

[00:40:25]>> Yeah.

[00:40:26]>> And she did have Cynthia Nixon as a friend, you know, >> and and Kristen Davis >> became a close friend.

[00:40:33]>> Yeah. Already.

[00:40:34]>> So, I just think that this was a relationship that was soured at the beginning.

[00:40:38]>> Yeah. I do want to talk about one other element of this, which is just that like Samantha's character had to give a lot more on screen just in terms of like the sex scenes that she had to do >> and the nudity.

[00:40:51]>> And it does make me sad that like >> that some of the other I don't know that SJP didn't like fight more for her to kind of be paid for that type of pay for that work. I I guess I just feel like would you ever say I I completely agree with you that all of those women except for SJ had a lot more nude scenes, >> you know, >> like we're we're really having to put a lot into the show. Yeah.

[00:41:17]>> Like Yeah.

[00:41:18]>> So, I guess I guess I just wouldn't though say that's it's Sarah Jessica Parker's responsibility to get them out of that contract or to try to resolve that for them.

[00:41:29]Yeah, it's it's not her responsibility, of course, but if she is like if they're all in this like sisterhood of this show, you think you would do that for your friends if you have so much power behind the scenes.

[00:41:40]>> You would think you would try to leverage, especially if there's only four of you. It's not like a six person ensemble. You could just kind of like lock arms and say, >> and not I'm not saying they didn't want to do that, but it's like, well, just like make sure they feel like they're being compensated completely, you know, or or at least compensated better.

[00:41:56]I wonder if there was if she ever went to the table or went to bat for them.

[00:41:59]>> Kim Katra was also not making minimum wage though. $350,000 an episode is a lot of money. Millions of dollars for the movies. $1 million for a single scene and it just like that. Like we're talking about >> a ton of money versus a gargantuan amount of money.

[00:42:15]>> They're not having to eat rice and beans because of their their measly salaries on Sex in the City. I think though >> it is wild when you when you hear how much money SJP was making, you know, and and I think no matter what, even if you're at the top, you are still going to compare yourself to your how much other cast members being paid. So anyway, okay, so let's get into the Piers Morgan interview that kind of sets this whole thing on fire.

[00:42:36]>> Exactly. This is when it it not only becomes obvious. I mean, Kim Kim basically goes on Pierce Morgan to launch her side of the story against SJP. So, this was for not doing Sex in the City 3, the movie.

[00:42:52]>> Yeah.

[00:42:52]>> So, >> I mean, pretty scathing.

[00:42:57]>> Yeah.

[00:42:58]>> So, she explains that she turned down the offer to do the third movie in December 2016. She said the answer was simply, "Thank you, but no, I'm good.

[00:43:06]This isn't about more money. It's not about more scenes. It's not about any of those things. It's about a clear decision, an empowered decision in my life to end one chapter and start another. It's a great part. I played it past the finish line and then some. And I loved it. I mean, she did she did six seasons and two movies, right?

[00:43:23]>> You know what it's reminding me of?

[00:43:24]Okay.

[00:43:25]>> It's reminding me of I can do it with a broken heart. You know?

[00:43:27]>> Yeah.

[00:43:28]>> As your heart is shatter. Your heart is shattered. As the crowd is screaming more. That's not the word. That's not the line.

[00:43:34]>> I was like I'm winning. Like I'm I'm hitting my marks because I can do it with a broken heart.

[00:43:40]I was grinning like I'm winning.

[00:43:42]>> But what's that before the crowd?

[00:43:44]Anyway, it's just like everyone just wants more more more. It's just like we always want more of Taylor, more music ever at all.

[00:43:51]>> We just want more of something we love so much. And it's like I mean >> couldn't let it go.

[00:43:57]>> Yeah. Like she did six seasons in two movies.

[00:44:00]>> I mean I don't want to give away my take on some of these things, but >> I think I think Kim Patrol >> bowed out when the time was right.

[00:44:08]>> Yeah. Yeah, we'll get to that.

[00:44:11]>> So, following this interview, we get a New York Post article with like another little detail >> uh about how, you know, Cynthia, Kristen, and SJP formed a little group and they left Kim out. They referenced an old Page Six article that said, you know, while on a shoot in Atlantic City, SJP rented a house for all the girls except for Kim. Though, an HBO spokesperson said that Kim just what didn't stay there because her husband was supposed to be there at the time.

[00:44:35]Um, but you know, this is just another moment where apparently there was like an in-group and an out group.

[00:44:40]>> Right. Exactly. And an insider told Page Six that towards the end of the series, no one was speaking to Kim. So, the feud really explodes in February 2018 when SJP goes on watch what happens live to kind of clap back at Kim on Piers Morgan and Andy asks her about Kim saying that they're no longer friends. So, let's play that. What was your reaction to Kim Catrell telling Piers Morgan that you were never friends, just colleagues?

[00:45:06]>> Uh, just heartbroken. I mean, that whole week you and I spoke about it endlessly because I was just >> I don't know. I was really I don't know.

[00:45:18]I found it very upsetting cuz that's, >> you know, that's not the way I recall our experience. So, >> right. It's sad, but I'm I'm I'm kind of um I don't know. I always think that what ties us together is this singular experience. It was a professional experience, but it came it became personal because it was years and years of our lives. So I I'm hoping that that sort of eclipses um anything that's been recently spoken that that that is everybody will have the love for the show.

[00:45:56]>> Have a professional that many years spent doing something so special that people you know may had a connection with it. Such a privilege.

[00:46:04]>> I mean still are talking to >> So what do you think about what she said? I think that Sarah Jessica Parker does a very good job of just acting like this whole thing is just so sad to her.

[00:46:15]It's just heartbreaking, you know.

[00:46:17]>> Yeah.

[00:46:18]>> I think she doesn't want to pour gasoline on the fire by being angry or talking about maybe wrongdoings that she, you know, she just kind of wants to act shocked and sad.

[00:46:28]>> Yeah.

[00:46:28]>> About the whole thing, which is kind of a it's a kind of an expert, I don't know, like PR defense. Yeah. It just makes me feel like there's SJP is not the bad guy.

[00:46:38]>> Skiving Robert Durst. I don't remember.

[00:46:40]I don't remember.

[00:46:41]>> Well, I mean, I I just feel like it's like, oh, this is just so sad to me.

[00:46:44]Well, oh, I guess she's not saying I don't remember. She's saying I I don't recall that it happened that way.

[00:46:49]>> And to me, I feel like that's really annoying because clearly you guys had big problems. There was there was all these reports that, you know, the the set of Sex in City movie was terrible to film because of the tension on set. Um, and there was, you know, you guys didn't sit together at the Emmys, like there's a lot of smoke here for there not to be fire. And then I think to just like try to paper over it or try to brush it under the rug and be like, "Well, that's not how I recall it." It's just it's so dismissive. Yeah. Yeah. And I just wish she had said like something like, you know, there were some personality conflicts and I wish that one of us had taken the higher road. I wish one of us had tried to make things better during that time. And it's honestly a regret of mine.

[00:47:38]>> Yeah.

[00:47:38]>> Like to me, when she just tries to deny it completely, >> I lose any trust in what she's saying.

[00:47:45]>> Yeah. Well, also one thing to keep in mind here is that SJP and Andy Cohen are great friends. Mhm.

[00:47:51]>> She did not go and watch what happens live reluctantly. I'm sure she was like, "I want to come and watch what happens live." Or I'm sure Andy said to her, "Do you want to come and watch what happens live this weekend?" kind of give a statement about this and set the record straight, you know? So, like that was all a rehearsed reaction. It wasn't like he just caught her in a moment.

[00:48:06]>> Um, so I just I >> Yeah, I guess I'm more skeptical of her response.

[00:48:10]>> Oh, for sure. She went on the show just like Kim went on Pierce Morgan to say that her and Sarah were never friends.

[00:48:16]She went on she went on on watch live to discuss Kim's appearance.

[00:48:20]>> Yeah. To say that she's heartbroken.

[00:48:22]>> Yeah. And so a big thing that comes out is SJP has this image as a very sweet, nice girl, amazing woman. like she has a really good reputation and she's really, >> you know, she likes to cultivate that good reputation and she will do it even in ways that are not exactly super genuine or ways that um you know Kim Catrell finds to be authentic. Everyone knows that weight loss is one of those things that can sound straightforward, but then when you actually get into it, it can be so frustrating and exhausting.

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[00:51:04]>> This part is crazy. Kim's 55-year-old brother, I mean, do you remember this happening?

[00:51:08]>> No, I don't.

[00:51:08]>> Okay. So, I I remember this happening.

[00:51:10]Kim's 55-year-old brother was found dead in Canada, and SJP writes on Kim's Instagram post saying, "Dearest Kim, my love and condolences to you and yours."

[00:51:20]and gods be to your beloved brother XX.

[00:51:24]So, this is this gets crazy because in response to the comment, Kim doesn't comment or reply. She makes a new Instagram post, which is still up, by the way, everybody. Still live.

[00:51:36]>> Hard grid posts. Okay. And she puts up a photo and it's just a light blue background with bold black text saying, "I don't need your love or support at this tragic time at Sarah Jessica Parker." In her caption, she says, "My mom asked me today, when will that Sarah Jessica Parker, that hypocrite, leave you alone? Your continuous reaching out is a painful reminder of how cruel you really were then and now." Let me make this very clear, if I haven't already.

[00:52:03]You are not my family. You are not my friend. So, I'm writing to you one last time to stop exploiting our tragedy in order to restore your nice girl persona.

[00:52:15]Whoa. I mean, this is just it's I I'm sorry, but Brooklyn Beckham must have must have been inspired by this post for it to go on his story tirade because it's such a rare moment of a celebrity >> Yes.

[00:52:30]>> like going at it public.

[00:52:31]>> You were not my family.

[00:52:33]>> Crazy.

[00:52:35]>> You know what I think here? I >> I don't know what I love the zero [ __ ] given go on. I I'm not going to sit here and say that Sarah Jessica Parker's intentions here were were all, you know, insincere or that this was just, you know, purely an attempt to to rehabilitate her image or to rehabilitate the image of their friendship. But I do think that something celebrities now have to think about and worry about is like, okay, well, if this celebrity comments on my Instagram post and says condolences or whatever, it's going to get it's going to become a headline. Yeah. You know, this is going to turn into SJP offers her heartfelt condolences to Kim Catrol in the wake of her brother's death.

[00:53:14]Like, it's going to turn into a another PR driven moment about what a nice person SJP is or or like how them mending fences. It's very clear that Kim wants to say we're not good, right?

[00:53:25]>> This isn't just like, you know, water under the bridge >> and you're not going to use my family tragedy in order to prop up your own nice girl persona.

[00:53:33]>> And, you know, that obviously didn't become the narrative. Instead, it the internet went on fire about this post and everyone was reminded that SJP, according to Kim Control, was a mean girl and a bully on the set of Sex and City.

[00:53:47]>> But don't you think now, like if a celebrity doesn't comment on an Instagram post? I mean, think about like Blake Lively liking Taylor Swift's engagement. It's like it's a story whether they comment or they don't.

[00:53:57]Yeah.

[00:53:57]>> Yeah. No, it's so true.

[00:53:59]>> Um, okay. So, when Sarah Jessarker was asked about her decision to comment despite the ongoing feud, she told Entertainment Tonight, "If somebody in your life, whether you're in touch with them or not, is suffering for any reason, it's involuntary that you want to convey condolences or sadness or just let someone know you're thinking about them." Other sources reported that SJP privately reached out to Kim when the news of her brother going missing came out. In People magazine, SJP goes on to comment about Kim's conversation with Pierce Morgan. She says, "We had this experience and it was amazing and nothing will ever be like it." talking about Sex in City. We had a connection with this city and this crew and we got to tell these crazy stories with each other. So, I don't want to mess with that. I couldn't imagine anyone else playing that part. So, there was no fight. It was completely fabricated because I actually never responded and I won't because she needed to say what she needed to say and that is her privilege.

[00:54:46]Okay. So, this is all happening in February of 2018. So then, uh, Michael Patrick King, the showrunner, who we'll remember is Sarah Jessica Parker's friend, uh, in November of 2018, kind of pours gasoline on the fire. And I'm going to read this quote.

[00:55:02]It's it's kind of long, everybody, but just listen in. Listen up. Uh, so he says, "The show doesn't exist if Sarah Jessica wasn't the blonde star of the show." That's number one. Kim was not at the height of her career. Kristen was under her in terms of notability.

[00:55:15]Cynthia was a theater actress and their contracts reflected that status. Sex in the City won, two and out. As the show progressed, the characters everybody grew. It became a family. Kristen, Cynthia, and Sarah Jessica became one group and Kim never joined mentally. Kim fought and said, "I'm everyone's favorite." SJP's name was contractually, legally, righteously the only name on the poster due to the fact that she was the movie star in 1998 when the series started. And she did a leap to do a show about sex on HBO, the channel that did the fights. And it doesn't matter how popular you are. I guess for Kim, it didn't matter how much the raise became if there was never parody, but there was never going to be parody.

[00:55:49]>> I mean, you read that quote and you do kind of understand and I I do think that there is a a world for sure where Kim Catrol was pissed from the beginning and just didn't like SJP >> and she felt that SJP should have used her power and leverage to go to bad for her.

[00:56:07]>> Yeah. To equalize things. Yeah.

[00:56:09]>> Or more so equalize things.

[00:56:10]>> And SJP didn't feel that way. We don't know if it was like if either party ever tried to connect or really be friends. I mean, it's I just kind of think about it in terms of like my working relationship and I just would never want to be on an ensemble cast where all four of us don't get along.

[00:56:29]>> I know. I know.

[00:56:30]>> That is what's so shocking to me.

[00:56:32]>> Yeah. Which makes me I kind of feel like I don't know now I'm just completely speculating.

[00:56:37]>> Yeah.

[00:56:38]>> But I feel like if there was any world where SJP had tried to extend an olive branch and tried to be friends, Kim Catrol would never discuss it.

[00:56:47]>> Yeah.

[00:56:48]>> But SJP is clearly like she is clearly just taking the the road of like that's not how I see it.

[00:56:57]>> Whatever.

[00:56:57]>> Very like tactful.

[00:56:59]>> Yeah. It's clear that Kim most likely never tried to be friends with SJP.

[00:57:05]>> Yeah. Yeah. You know.

[00:57:06]>> Yeah.

[00:57:06]>> But we don't know if SJP ever really tried.

[00:57:09]>> Yeah. I think Kim Catrol was very comfortable uh just, you know, doing her own thing >> with the hostility. Yeah. And it's kind of like, you know, that mental space you can get to where you're like so kind of driven a little crazy by something that you like won't let yourself be part of the group because you're too consumed by your own like internal rage about something. Right. That happens to Chandler all the time.

[00:57:29]>> I mean, that's my whole life. Internal rage. Um I mean, and then at that point, you kind of have to evaluate, was some of this maybe a slight character flaw, you know, on Kim Catrol's part where like she could not move past this in any way a little bit.

[00:57:44]>> Yeah. Or or make peace with it or leave the show or say, "This isn't for me. I'm not going to like continue to be in this situation." Um, so I I do think we should talk about the iconic quote that she gives to the Guardian. So she says, "She went past the finish line playing Samantha Jones because I loved Sex in the City. It was a blessing in so many ways, but after the second movie, I'd had enough. I couldn't understand why they would just replace me with another actress instead of wasting time bullying. No means no." And then she goes on to say, "I don't want to be in a situation for even an hour where I'm not enjoying myself."

[00:58:16]>> And that became a meme.

[00:58:17]>> I mean, that's just like the best thing I've ever heard.

[00:58:19]>> Yeah.

[00:58:20]>> Um, and she's not wrong. So, in September 2020, Kim reflects on Sex in the City in a profile with the Los Angeles Times. She says, "I don't think anybody really knew what it would become or how it would be at that moment part of the Zeitgeist to open up doors for women to express themselves in a very honest, forthright way about how they felt about sexuality or how they even interacted with their girlfriends in a real way." She also admitted that she was being cast as a character of a certain likeness to Samantha as her career went on and was plagued by the feud with SJP. She declined to comment further on the drama instead offering everything is on Google. So I encourage you to Google it about anything that I've said. I feel that that was then and when I look at what's going on around me I just don't have any regrets. So then we get to and just like that. Yes. So I mean I will say first of all that Chris N has a moment here where he speaks to the guardian and he's asked about Kim and he says I have to tell you I have absolutely no idea what her thinking is or her emotions. I do know that I'm very close to SJ and Kim's descriptions of her don't even come close. I liked her. I thought she was marvelous in the show and some people move on for their own reasons. I don't know what hers were. I just wish that the whole thing had never happened because it was sad and uncomfortable.

[00:59:30]You know that Chris North and SJP are not friends anymore. And this is because of sexual assault allegations that came out against him.

[00:59:37]>> Um I don't know exactly who who accused him. I do know that Cynthia Nixon and Kristen Davis like supported the accusers. Um, yeah. I think I think these were allegations maybe on the set of Sex in the City.

[00:59:51]>> Oh, wow.

[00:59:53]>> Yeah.

[00:59:53]>> Wow. I mean, okay. So, I think that actually tracks perfectly with what Chris Nos says. You know, he's saying like, I her experience is nothing like mine. Doesn't track at all with the SJP I know or whatever. And that could honestly be like someone on the set of Sex in the City who got assaulted by Chris Nth allegedly. um who had a you know who had a very different experience with him than Estre you know like some people are not the same people to everyone >> let me also clarify I actually don't know that it happened on the set of Sex City so he was just accused of sexual assault by two women in early December 2021 and then three more women came forward with further allegations in the weeks that followed and then he was dropped by his management team >> wow so he also says said about um SJ he says I just don't like to see anyone talking down about Sarah Jessica because she's a target and People can be nasty.

[01:00:43]I feel very protective of her and I was not happy about that. That's all I'll say about that.

[01:00:48]>> Okay. So, I mean, >> this is so funny. I mean, okay, let's just talk about in just like that. And just >> How much of it did you watch?

[01:00:57]>> I could only get through, I would say, half a season.

[01:00:59]>> Yeah. Half of the first season.

[01:01:01]>> Yeah. And it was just so painful and cringe to watch.

[01:01:04]>> I watched the entire first season.

[01:01:06]>> The spin-off and Just Like That did not slap the same as Sex in the City.

[01:01:11]>> Yeah. At all. So, when the, you know, the previews for And Just Like That come out, we know that, you know, Samantha's not in them. But then she does have a cameo eventually. She's paid a million dollars for a 60-second cameo where she I think she's like films a phone call with SJP or something.

[01:01:28]>> Um, they're not even in the same place, right? She's paid a million dollars for it, which, you know, not too bad. This is what Kim says about walking away >> and not participating in it just like that. beyond this little camera. She says, "It's great wisdom to know when enough is enough. I also didn't want to compromise what the show was to me. The way forward seemed clear." Later, she added, "I certainly heard about it."

[01:01:51]Talking about in Just Like That, and I've come to the conclusion that really the greatest compliment I could ever have as an actor is to be missed.

[01:01:59]I mean, clearly I I don't I don't think Kim Catrol could have saved in Just Like That >> cuz the writing was so bad. And honestly, it just would have like been a disgrace to Samantha's life.

[01:02:10]>> I agree. I agree.

[01:02:12]>> Um, so SJP has asked again in June of 2022 about Kim's absence from and just like that. And she kind of gives another SJP type of answer about this. She says, "It's very hard to talk about this situation with Kim because I've been so careful about never ever wanting to say anything that is unpleasant because it's not the way I like to conduct conversations that are as complicated as this."

[01:02:34]Um, she says that there hasn't been anyone else who's ever talked about me this way and that it's very painful.

[01:02:40]>> In May of 2023, so about a year later, Kim joined one scene and that's when she's paid the million dollars. She was dressed by Patricia Field, Sex in the City's original costume designer, who was not actually working on the rebooted series for the cameo. So, it's kind of interesting. They pulled out all the stops for that one little scene.

[01:03:00]Okay, maybe my favorite moment of this entire uh saga is that August 1st, 2025, uh midway through season 3, it is announced that the series has been cancelled.

[01:03:13]>> It's not returning.

[01:03:14]>> And just a mere hours later, Kim shares a photo of the sunset overwater and she says in the caption, "It's the end of a very long week."

[01:03:22]>> I mean, it's incredible.

[01:03:24]>> It's incredible. I love I love the fact that Kim kind of refuses to not be a little petty.

[01:03:31]>> Yes. Yes.

[01:03:32]>> And it's it just it's wonderful entertainment for all of us.

[01:03:36]>> Agreed.

[01:03:37]>> Okay. So, what really happened everyone?

[01:03:40]Well, we have pulled together a few quotes from the the other historians, other cultural anthropologists on Reddit who have weighed in. So, here's one quote. Someone says SJP's agent negotiated an amazing deal with long-term consequences before HBO filmed a single scene. This is the reason for nearly everything. The pay difference, the EP credit, the wardrobe requests, the no nudity clause, the relative lack of swearing for Carrie compared to the other characters. This stuff did not happen because one actress had an ego problem and wanted to marginalize the other. A lot of it was just business decisions. The interpersonal stuff and press comments are one thing, but a lot of the alleged wrongdoing stems from legality/contracts.

[01:04:20]them's the break sometimes.

[01:04:21]>> Yeah.

[01:04:22]>> Which I I do think is is correct and I think it could be more than that. I think that, you know, clearly personalities were at play like the the that might have been the poisonous seed, you know, that sprouted the >> poisonous tree.

[01:04:38]>> The that could have been the >> Yeah. The or sorry >> contaminated the groundwater. What are we searching for here?

[01:04:45]>> Trying to the the poison vine that made the >> What was wrong with the poisonous tree?

[01:04:49]If you're looking for the poison is fine.

[01:04:50]>> That made the the wine, you know, the >> didn't work that.

[01:04:55]>> It didn't work. The poison.

[01:04:56]>> Yes. I think I think that started everything off on the wrong foot. Yeah.

[01:05:00]You know, even though it's like it's her right to have an amazing contract, >> but even with the poisonous tree. Okay.

[01:05:05]Even with those vines, it takes a gardener. It takes Sorry.

[01:05:10]>> Cultivating. You got to cultivate the poisonous tree.

[01:05:12]>> Um, you you do you do have to water the You do have to water the poisonous tree.

[01:05:17]>> That's enough.

[01:05:18]I want to talk about some of the uh like the producers and the non you know talent crew that kind of makes a difference in this and some of this might be repetitive because we kind of have talked about it a little bit but I thought this user on Reddit had a very interesting point. They said showrunner Michael Patrick King talked about it during an interview and said that SJP was a movie star doing TV so they offered her a bigger check. Um, like we said before, you know, TV was a big step down from the movies. And Michael Pastor King argued that Kim's fame had waned since the 80s when she did movies like Porky's Mannequin, etc. And Cynthia knew SJP from their child star days. They were already tight. But Cynthia was mostly a stage actress. Kristen was the newest kid on the block and I think knew Darren star from Melrose Place. Both Cynthia and Kristen must have resigned to less her money, but Kim was arguably the sex in Sex in the City. And I can't really blame her for wanting equal pay.

[01:06:07]She put herself out there almost every week. From my understanding, Darren left sometime during the early seasons and MPK took over as showrunner and he was tight with SJP and Kim was then sort of the odd one out in negotiations. She must have asked SJP for equal pay among the actresses and I have no idea what went on from there. I do find it odd that both Cynthia and Kristen have stayed on SJP's side if in fact they were being denied a pay increase. The whole thing seems like a complicated mess.

[01:06:30]>> Yeah.

[01:06:31]>> So I I think it's just interesting to know that like you know SJP was clearly good friends with the showrunner and that like cemented her power. Mhm. Um, yeah.

[01:06:40]>> Yeah. So, and then this other there's another comment talking about Kim's heavy lifting in during the show. And this person writes, "I agree that the other three did a lot of heavy lifting.

[01:06:49]Kim's sex scenes especially. You've seen them basically naked, topless several times, often grinding on dudes with no clothes on and sometimes no sheets for even a little modesty. They went without bras quite a bit as she pee always had a bra on, even when she wore pajamas. So, she almost never had to be filmed with her breasts flopping around. In the scene where she is dressed as a candy striper for Big, she even has a bra on underneath the see-through teddy she is wearing that already had bra cups. The disparity between her bedroom scenes and the other three was noticeable and made me feel bad for them. As for people saying she worked harder, I'd argue that keeping her body toned, tanned, and hairless while doing acrobatic sexual moves and grinding on nude strangers and moaning and screaming is a heck of a lot more work than clothes on acting and then doing some narrating. A producer job/title would be deserving of more pay, though. I guess what I'm saying is that at first her making a lot more money and having more modest scenes than the others was not her fault. But once she became friends with these women, I feel like it would have been classy of her to lead the way in negotiating a more equitable deal together. Since she didn't do that for women she calls friends, she just doesn't feel like much of a girl's girl to me.

[01:07:49]>> I kind of agree.

[01:07:50]>> Yeah. And I kind of think that clearly Kim Catrol let her ego get the best of her and Sarah Jessica Parker didn't try to use her power to help her co-stars.

[01:08:03]>> Two things can be true at once. Both probably behaved pretty badly.

[01:08:06]>> Yeah.

[01:08:07]>> Um and it's it's it's sad. It is really sad because I think the show is a little bit tainted because of their feud.

[01:08:13]>> You know, maybe these two will mend fences eventually.

[01:08:16]>> Yeah. Um or maybe somebody will write a tell all book and we'll read the whole thing. We will read every word and we will do a deep dive. We'll do an update to this episode. Absolutely. Okay, you guys. Thank you so much for listening.

[01:08:27]Love you so much. If you love the pod, please do us a favor and leave us a review. It would mean so much. It really helps the show and each review it means a lot to us. So, if you don't mind, that would be really helpful. And then if you would like more pop apologists, we will be on premium.

[01:08:45]>> Mhm.

[01:08:45]>> All right. Love you guys. Love you guys.

[01:08:47]Bye.