Coffee, Cats & Conversation 🇹🇼 Kate Billington’s 900-Day Streak in Taiwan [991]

Añadido: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]Hello listeners. Welcome back to Luke's English podcast. How are you doing today? I hope you're doing fine. Joining me on the podcast in this episode in order to record some English conversation for your listening pleasure is returning guest Kate Billington.

[00:00:16]>> Hello. What are you making a noise What noise are you making, Luke?

[00:00:20]>> Come on, you got to know what that noise is.

[00:00:23]>> What's that?

[00:00:24]I can't hear it.

[00:00:25]>> that be?

[00:00:26]That's the sound of a huge audience of people all applauding, clapping, and cheering.

[00:00:31]>> I can just see you moving towards your microphone and back again. I couldn't hear anything.

[00:00:37]>> You couldn't hear anything. Okay, sometimes um this recording platform that we're using cuts out this got filters which cut out background noise and things like that.

[00:00:47]So, you couldn't hear my amazing impression of a huge crowd of people all applauding all at the same time.

[00:00:54]>> I thought you were I thought you were going to do a voice and say my name.

[00:00:57]That's why I didn't say anything.

[00:00:59]>> No, no, no. I was doing incredible sound effects which when this is finally put together, you'll you'll be able to enjoy it and you you will be You should in fact say something like, "Oh my god, that was amazing." Um >> Oh my god, that was amazing. How did you make that noise?

[00:01:13]>> It's I've got a particular set of skills. I've all sorts of noises.

[00:01:17]>> podcasting.

[00:01:18]>> Lots of podcasting. Um Kate, hello. Uh how are you doing?

[00:01:24]>> I'm very well. How are you?

[00:01:26]>> I'm very well, too. Thanks. It's nice to have you back on the podcast. Can you believe it, Kate? It's almost exactly 2 years since your last appearance on this podcast. How did that happen?

[00:01:37]>> How did it happen that 2 years passed?

[00:01:39]>> Yeah.

[00:01:40]>> Yeah, it's just it's just life, isn't it? It fills up your time.

[00:01:44]I think. Well, you would know. You've got your busy, you know, familying and podcasting and working and all that.

[00:01:52]>> Mm. It's the sort of question my my my son would ask.

[00:01:56]Uh my my son is 2 years old at the moment and he's in that phase of asking why about absolutely everything.

[00:02:02]So, we end up in some pretty deep conversations. So, it's like, "Why is it dark?" he'll say and I say, "Cuz the sun's gone down." "Why?" "Why is the sun gone down?"

[00:02:12]And then, you know, and I have to say, "Well, cuz we're actually on a huge planet that's spinning and orbiting the sun.

[00:02:20]And as the planet spins, the sun disappears over the horizon."

[00:02:24]"Why is the sun gone down?"

[00:02:27]>> No, it hasn't gone down. We've just spun past it.

[00:02:30]We've just spun away from it.

[00:02:33]>> Yeah.

[00:02:34]Yeah. So, anyway, that that question of how did 2 years pass is kind of like that, isn't it, really?

[00:02:40]Um >> It is.

[00:02:41]>> No.

[00:02:42]Um, okay, anyone who's who has started listening to this podcast in the last 2 years and hasn't heard episodes from before that period might not know you, Kate. So, I've got some Kate facts.

[00:02:54]>> Oh.

[00:02:54]>> Okay.

[00:02:55]>> Love it. Okay, go. Go.

[00:02:56]>> Kate facts which you can confirm or deny, okay?

[00:03:00]>> Okay.

[00:03:02]>> Don't worry. This I haven't, you know, dug very deep for this. So, >> made some up.

[00:03:08]>> No, I don't think so, but again, you can confirm or deny whether these are true.

[00:03:12]So, first thing is you are a fully qualified teacher of English as a second {slash} foreign {slash} other language.

[00:03:19]And uh you've got a CELTA and a DELTA.

[00:03:23]Do you have a master's?

[00:03:25]>> Yes, I do, but my master's in it is in cultural communication.

[00:03:29]>> Ooh.

[00:03:31]Okay.

[00:03:32]Did you Did you write a thesis or a dissertation at the end of that?

[00:03:36]>> I did. My thesis was in um multilingual theater subtitling.

[00:03:42]>> Uh-huh.

[00:03:43]Specific.

[00:03:45]Multilingual theater subtitling.

[00:03:49]>> Yeah.

[00:03:49]Yes, which isn't normally actually subtitling. normally it's surtitling or supertitling um as it's sometimes called which means that just that the writing goes above the action on stage normally.

[00:04:01]Um whereas subtitling, the word sub comes from the fact that the writing is normally below the action on the screen.

[00:04:07]>> Okay. What So what do we need to know about multilingual theater surtitling?

[00:04:15]>> That it's really difficult to do it well.

[00:04:18]So I did my masters in China. I was at Shanghai Theatre Academy.

[00:04:23]And they had some international theater festivals and visiting performances and things like that. And a lot of them were surtitled. Um and also opera has been surtitled for a long time.

[00:04:34]Um but often the surtitles were just like really badly done.

[00:04:38]Um like the screens were put in the wrong place or sometimes they'd just put two screens either side of the stage and then one time I saw an actor knock one of the screens over. That was a bad time.

[00:04:48]Um or they'd be like really out of sync or you know, it's just really hard to do well.

[00:04:54]Um so then I decided to research it. I mentioned it to my thesis professor or the I think the head of the program actually and he was like, "Oh, that's amazing. You should research that."

[00:05:04]So then I started researching it. And then I moved to Paris and I found a company that was called Theatre in Paris that did um English surtitled plays, French plays for like English-speaking tourists.

[00:05:18]Um so I worked with them for a little bit. Um which was cool and they developed these like um they weren't um they were like augmented reality. It wasn't virtual reality, augmented reality glasses that you could wear and the subtitles, which were in that case subtitles, would appear on your glasses.

[00:05:37]Which is really cool. Yeah.

[00:05:40]>> Yes, that sounds amazing.

[00:05:43]>> Yeah.

[00:05:43]>> Okay. Well, really interesting. Um we used to work together at the we used to work together teaching English at the British Council in Paris where we met each other.

[00:05:54]How long have you been an English teacher now?

[00:05:57]>> I think I've been an English teacher for it's well over 10 years now.

[00:06:04]Yeah.

[00:06:06]I'm 35. So 10 12 12 11 12 years maybe.

[00:06:11]>> So the point the point there listeners is that don't worry you're in safe hands. Okay.

[00:06:15]>> Yes.

[00:06:17]>> What's your what's your favorite thing?

[00:06:19]We is good at English.

[00:06:20]We yes can speak English us.

[00:06:25]English we is good.

[00:06:27]at what's what's your favorite thing about the job? What's your favorite thing about the job Kate?

[00:06:33]>> Do you mean the job at the British Council?

[00:06:36]Just teaching English in general.

[00:06:39]Because I asked because as I mentioned before we started recording I no longer work at the British Council actually. I changed or you haven't mentioned yet that I live in Taiwan but I guess now we'll we'll mention that bit.

[00:06:52]>> You live in Taiwan.

[00:06:54]>> Yes. So I moved to Taiwan two and a half years ago to work at the British Council here and I was adult coordinator which is kind of assistant head of the adults department for a couple of years and then I moved to a new job at the beginning of this school year. So that was like August late August early September and I now teach English in a French school in Taiwan.

[00:07:21]So I'm teaching English as a foreign language to students who speak it as a foreign language and also teaching English the way it would be taught in the UK like as a first language so literature and language to students who already have a fluent level of English.

[00:07:40]So I've got two kind of streams of students in my classes. And my favorite thing about teaching, I think is seeing students progress.

[00:07:53]Um and also sometimes you get like really encouraging stories from students. Like they I don't know, maybe they do really well in a in a university entrance exam or an interview or something and it's because of what you've been doing during class. So, it's kind of there's a really kind of tangible result there.

[00:08:11]Um where maybe actually all they needed was a bit more confidence.

[00:08:14]Um but they've they've got there through the practice.

[00:08:17]Um and I think that applies even more when I'm teaching teenagers. I love teaching teenagers. And I mean primary school kids, but not like tiny ones. Um like older primary and teenagers.

[00:08:28]Um I really like teaching them cuz you kind of you see that progress every day.

[00:08:32]Um >> Yeah.

[00:08:33]>> And yeah, that's the best thing about the job, I think.

[00:08:37]>> Great. Um you've also taught adults a lot, right? Um >> Yes.

[00:08:42]>> What's your um favorite bit of advice that you give to adult learners beyond just saying you should listen to Luke's English podcast?

[00:08:50]>> Obviously, that's the number one piece of advice.

[00:08:53]>> Mhm.

[00:08:53]>> Um if you I think you should listen to it on multiple different platforms so that he really gets lots of views. I mean so that you get lots of exposure.

[00:09:01]>> Right. So, switch on the YouTube version, the Apple podcast version, the Spotify version. Have them all going all at the same time.

[00:09:09]>> Like subscribe to all of them.

[00:09:10]>> by immersion.

[00:09:12]>> Yeah. Have the YouTube one on the right, the Spotify on the left, Apple podcasts anywhere else. Just completely surrounded. Yeah.

[00:09:21]Yeah. Other than that, >> That's all you need.

[00:09:23]Other than that, um I think you should do something you enjoy in your target language. So, if it's English, then you should be using English for something that is not is not Maybe it can still be difficult.

[00:09:40]I was going to say something that's not difficult for me. But something that you already enjoy doing. So, if you're into music, you can make sure you're listening to English artists and learn the lyrics and sing along.

[00:09:50]Um if you're interested in I don't know, history, try and listen to a history podcast or read some articles on a history website or in a history magazine.

[00:09:58]Um and so on. Try and Yeah, find something that you really like. Gaming is a big one now, as well.

[00:10:05]Um The only one The only thing with that one is you've got to remember there's like a lot of quite specific vocabulary for gaming. It doesn't always transfer to other parts of life, but it can be really good.

[00:10:14]Um and social media, as well. If you have uh English-speaking celebrities who you really like, you can follow them.

[00:10:21]And you can even interact with them online. So, all of that is really good because you're already motivated to use English in those contexts because you want to You want to get to the end goal, right?

[00:10:33]Which is either like understanding the person you're following on social media or taking part in the game or um learning more about this aspect of history or whatever it is that you care about. So, that's one piece of advice.

[00:10:45]And then I think my other piece of advice is um don't do the thing that people sometimes do where they think they have to learn really difficult words and use them all the time to show that they're really good at English because um it doesn't it doesn't work.

[00:11:02]Um and it actually kind of makes you look silly because you're trying to use words that probably don't fit the conversation that you're in anyway. And also, you need to you need to focus on being able to use language in the right places at the right time.

[00:11:22]And if you overuse really kind of high-level and quite unusual words, that's not what a native speaker would do. So, it it's not making you sound more fluent. It's actually making you sound like you've just learned a bunch of words and now you're trying to put them into conversation.

[00:11:35]>> Yeah, you don't score points just for using big words. You score points for using the right words in the right contest.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah. Yeah, and I do also have I noticed some students who do that almost at the expense of of getting the grammar right. So, they'll use a fancy word in the sentence, but the sentence is wrongly constructed. So, it doesn't make sense.

[00:11:58]Of course, you can make small grammatical mistakes and I could still understand you. That happens a lot. But it's it it's a real contrast between oh, I can see that you've learned this word, but you're not using the present tense correctly. So, you know, it makes it look even more like you're not really kind of going about it the right way. So, >> We've We've talked before about >> We've talked before about um things that you see on social media where some random person is teaching English and they say, "Don't say >> Oh, god. Yeah.

[00:12:30]>> this, say this. Don't say I'm tired, say I am I don't know.

[00:12:35]>> fatigued >> Yeah, or or something Yeah, something that obviously is really fancy and uh rare word.

[00:12:44]>> Mhm.

[00:12:44]>> But it's just going to seem really strange if you use it. So, yes, we've we've kind of talked about that before and that does leave people It's just such an odd way to uh describe leveling up your English.

[00:12:56]Just uh converting normal everyday common phrases to much more literary uh phrases that uh people don't really use very much. And just like the fact that it's rare and it's long doesn't mean that it's necessarily more advanced.

[00:13:14]That often advanced communication is about effective communication. You know, that's what should be driving your English is your ability to communicate complicated ideas. Not just use complicated words to communicate simple ideas.

[00:13:28]>> Mhm.

[00:13:29]Yes, exactly. So, I guess that's my advice.

[00:13:33]>> That's your advice. Okay, good. Um Kate, you you also >> My advice to you rephrased.

[00:13:39]>> I've rephrased your advice, but it was yeah.

[00:13:42]I'll let you claim original copyright over the over the idea.

[00:13:47]Hello, a quick interruption from me. I hope you're enjoying this episode with Kate. It's always nice to have her back on the podcast. Um I just wanted to let you know there is a premium episode all about this conversation. It's a kind of vocabulary review of over 40 different bits of vocab that come up during the conversation. Lots of different things I picked out over 40 words, expressions, little idioms, and other things that we used uh that you may notice or may not notice. I don't know, but anyway, there's a premium episode all about it.

[00:14:22]So, if you want to really take things further and actually expand your vocab and learn more uh English from this conversation, then check out the premium episode that was published uh just a few days ago in fact. Uh sign up to Luke's English podcast premium to get more vocab reviews and more specific teaching of vocab, grammar, pronunciation, and stuff from me. Often and um quite a lot recently, I've been doing these vocab review episodes where I turn it into a vocab quiz and it's a very popular way to notice gaps in your English and also to pick up vocabulary in context.

[00:14:59]Full quiz, full detailed vocab list, discussion questions, memory questions, all the stuff that you need to help you learn vocab from my episodes. Check it out, how you get started.

[00:15:14]Right, back to the conversation. Here we go.

[00:15:18]Kate, you also do stand-up comedy in your free time.

[00:15:22]>> I do.

[00:15:23]>> Uh can you tell us what your latest gig was? What was your latest gig? And can can you give us a quick gig report?

[00:15:31]>> Yes, so my latest gig was on Friday.

[00:15:34]Um we had a comedian visiting, a guy called Mo Magdi or Mohammed Magdi, who is from Egypt but lives in Hong Kong.

[00:15:43]And he was doing he had done a little Asia tour. So he went to Tokyo and Manila and I think to Carter. I can't remember everywhere he went to, but he finished in Taipei and he performed here at a comedy club where I perform a lot.

[00:15:57]So I was one of the opening comedians for him.

[00:16:01]Um and it was great. It was um we had a reasonable sized audience. I think maybe about 50 people. Um and yeah, Mo was great. He was really funny. Um I just did 8 minutes as an opener. And two other comedians also did 8 minutes. And I'm not going to lie, I felt a little bit underprepared um on the day because I'd had a busy day at work and I'd just hadn't really been in that mindset, you know.

[00:16:26]Um so I kind of yeah, um I put together some material that sort of fit together reasonably well.

[00:16:35]Um and then it worked really well. Yeah, people liked it.

[00:16:38]>> Excellent. Good. Great.

[00:16:40]Um so I'm going to go into some other things later on. I'm still in the kind of Kate facts uh fact-checking section of this.

[00:16:48]Uh Kate, you also speak various languages. Can you just give us a reminder what languages do you speak and at what level?

[00:16:56]>> Okay, um so I speak really good English, top level English, I would say. That's my level, top.

[00:17:02]>> Yeah.

[00:17:03]>> Um I speak good French. Uh my French is fluent, C2 level.

[00:17:09]Um I speak reasonable Chinese.

[00:17:13]Um it's not as good as I I like it to be uh after 2 and 1/2 years in Taiwan and I studied Chinese at university as well.

[00:17:20]So I used to speak pretty good Chinese and then I didn't use it for like 8 years when I was living in Paris and then I moved to Taiwan. It's definitely a lot better now than it was when I first got to Taiwan.

[00:17:32]And it has improved since I got here.

[00:17:34]But it's not great. I'd like it to be better. I think it's maybe B1 B2.

[00:17:40]>> Yeah, really? Like okay. I felt like it was a bit better than that like when I heard you speaking Chinese before.

[00:17:46]Do you do you speak Chinese a lot in your life?

[00:17:50]Well, I don't know. It just sounded like it. You know, you know, when you hear someone speaking a foreign language even if you don't speak that foreign language, you can detect a certain level of fluency and control in the way someone uses it, you know? And I heard you you translated a joke. You translated that library joke.

[00:18:07]And it sounded pretty good to me.

[00:18:11]>> All right.

[00:18:12]>> don't know. Maybe.

[00:18:13]>> I have since then I've done a whole stand-up set in Chinese.

[00:18:16]>> Yeah.

[00:18:17]>> So that was that went well.

[00:18:20]I had a lot of practice.

[00:18:22]>> Really?

[00:18:24]Yeah, cuz you can't Yeah, cuz you could just go up in English and kind of improvise your way through it, but in Chinese yes, it's it's tricky, right?

[00:18:35]Yeah, I think obviously.

[00:18:36]>> anecdote. Yeah, that was how I did it.

[00:18:39]Um yeah, maybe it's B2 level. I don't know.

[00:18:42]I don't speak as much Chinese as I would like to.

[00:18:46]I obviously speak quite a lot of French at school cuz I'm at a French school now and English for work. Sometimes I speak Chinese with my colleagues and I have some Taiwanese friends as well who I speak Chinese with sometimes.

[00:19:00]Um but I would say I've probably got more English speaking friends than Taiwanese friends.

[00:19:07]And yeah, I just end up not speaking as much Chinese as I would like to. I did take classes for a while though.

[00:19:13]Um that was really good. Um but I took them when I was still at the British Council, so I was I was working afternoons and evenings, so I took some morning classes.

[00:19:22]Um and then I started my new job, so I stopped taking them because now I work mornings and afternoons.

[00:19:29]>> Right, I see.

[00:19:31]Um but uh very good French and decent Chinese.

[00:19:36]Um >> Yes.

[00:19:37]>> What do you think? Are you Are you Are you a Mandarin Chinese? Are you a special case at learning languages or can anyone do what you've done?

[00:19:47]>> I think anyone can do it.

[00:19:49]Um but I think uh I think you have to have a different approach depending on the language.

[00:19:59]Um I mean, I speak some other languages as well, but just to a much more basic level, so I speak um very basic. I used to speak quite good Spanish when I was at school, um but I've lost a lot of it.

[00:20:10]Um and then very basic German and Italian as well. Um Italian honestly is just like if Spanish and French had a baby, it would be Italian. So for Italian, I kind of just make it up if I'm not sure.

[00:20:22]Um and I normally get somewhere.

[00:20:23]Um maybe not where I meant to get to, but something happens.

[00:20:27]>> You end up with a pizza a pizza in front of you.

[00:20:30]>> Yeah, I thought I'd ordered pasta, but it's you know, it's worked. I've got food.

[00:20:34]>> It's all right. It's all good, isn't it really?

[00:20:36]>> It'll do. Um but yes, I think I think anybody can do it, but I think I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm not like a neuroscientist or anything, obviously.

[00:20:46]Um I imagine some people I think you probably have natural skills in certain directions, right? And that's probably true for all people. And I think yes, for some people it's probably true that languages are easier than they are for other people.

[00:21:04]And that's probably something about how your brain works. Um but also people are thrown into situations where they have to learn a language and they didn't expect to have to learn that language. You know, sometimes people have to, for example, leave their home country and go and make a home somewhere new and they never expected to learn the language of the country they ended up in because, you know, they weren't they didn't make a long-term plan, they just had to go. Um and, you know, those people can can absolutely master the language of the new country and there's lots hundreds, thousands of examples of people who have done just that even if they wouldn't consider themselves linguists to begin with.

[00:21:42]Um so I think sometimes sometimes people sort of get pushed into doing it and then they then they learn how to master a language and then other people maybe would do it by choice and would master a language as well.

[00:21:54]>> Yeah, motivation might be part of it.

[00:21:56]You know, like the people who do it by choice just have a something that's pushing them towards it. Whereas the people who are forced to wouldn't normally have pushed themselves into it to the same extent as someone like you who's just really interested in doing it and as a result they don't end up with the same level but if they've been pushed into it by their circumstances, then they find they get a similar result as someone who just did it themselves.

[00:22:22]>> Yeah, it could well do. Yeah.

[00:22:24]>> Mhm.

[00:22:24]>> Yeah, especially if you're living in a country where you need to master a new language, you know, that's a big motivation in itself. It's more of an external extrinsic motivation, as we say, rather than intrinsic.

[00:22:35]>> Right. I I imagine it would be more of a struggle as well if you've sort of been forced to to learn it. That would probably be learning by >> Yeah, if you sort of resent it, if you yeah, yeah.

[00:22:45]What what about you though? You always say your French isn't very good. Is it still not very good?

[00:22:49]>> Still not very good.

[00:22:50]But yeah, I think it's partially to do with the fact that I just always use English all the time, you know, like at home we speak English, I speak English with my kids, I speak English at work, I speak English on the podcast, if I'm doing stand-up, I do it in English, and then all the bits in between are in French.

[00:23:14]You know?

[00:23:15]So, as a result, my French is just constantly in It's just in between. It's just in a constant in between state.

[00:23:24]Yeah. So, yeah, that's not It's not great. It's not my favorite topic of conversation. My French.

[00:23:30]Yeah.

[00:23:31]But, still, uh other things, Kate, you like baking and you have a proper professional French uh baking qualification, so you professional level baking skills.

[00:23:44]Um What's the What's the last Do you still baking? What's the last thing you baked?

[00:23:48]>> I still bake, but not anywhere near as much as I used to because in Taiwan, I don't have a proper kitchen.

[00:23:55]Um because most apartments don't come with a proper kitchen.

[00:23:59]>> And what do you mean proper kitchen?

[00:24:02]>> Um you know, with like a with a built-in oven and sort of space to prepare things and and that sort of thing. Um there's a lot of studio apartments or um yeah, just sort of apartments where you would have just have sort of a a fridge and maybe a a hot plate or a one one ring that you can use for boiling water or whatever. Um but eating out is a lot cheaper here than it is in in Paris or in the UK, um so people will eat out a lot more.

[00:24:34]Um but I do have a very good friend here who has a real kitchen cuz she's got a family apartment that she lives in as her her and her daughter live there.

[00:24:43]Um and I actually stayed with them for a while when I first moved here, um and then I stayed with them again recently because my lease on my last apartment ended, and then in between when I was looking for a new one, which is the one I'm in now, I was staying with them again. So, I did bake a little bit then.

[00:24:59]I think the last thing I baked was um Taiwanese mince pies, which I invented. I think they're the only ones in the world.

[00:25:08]>> Wait a minute. You need to explain mince pies and Taiwanese mince pies.

[00:25:13]>> Mhm.

[00:25:14]Mhm. Okay, so mince pies are a traditional British Christmas sweet treat. Even though they've got the name mince, so it's it's m i n c e.

[00:25:26]Which sounds a bit like the word mints, like m i n t s, but it's not. It's with c e at the end. Um which normally refers to meat. So, minced meat is meat that's been cut into very small pieces.

[00:25:38]Um and they're called mince pies because originally they had meat in them.

[00:25:42]Um minced meat. And also um dried fruit and spices and sugar and some of those alcohol as well.

[00:25:49]Um and they were invented a really really long time ago, but I think the recipe that we kind of look at now, that we call the original mince pies, is maybe from the Victorian era.

[00:26:00]So, that's sort of 250 years ago or so.

[00:26:03]>> Mhm.

[00:26:04]>> Um and at that point they did put meat in them um because the Victorians made some really crazy food.

[00:26:10]Um and then after a while people realized that they would be much nicer without the meat, just as like a sweet treat that's just got dried fruit. So, it's got like raisins and chopped apple and orange peel all kind of mixed together with spices and sugar and then you let it soak for we can let it soak for a long time.

[00:26:31]Um over a year actually it can keep cuz there's nothing in it that's going to go off. Yeah.

[00:26:35]>> Wow.

[00:26:36]>> Um and then you make a nice sweet pastry and you make little pies and you put the filling, the mince meat, still called mince meat even though there's no meat inside it.

[00:26:44]>> Mhm.

[00:26:44]>> Um you put that inside the pies and you put a nice little sweet pastry on top and then you put them in the oven to bake.

[00:26:50]So, that's mince pies, and then >> Traditional at Christmas.

[00:26:54]That's >> Yes, I did I did say that earlier.

[00:26:57]>> You did, but I just wanted to remind everyone.

[00:27:00]Um, uh, yeah, traditional Christmas thing.

[00:27:02]Okay, so Taiwanese mince pies then, what's the difference?

[00:27:05]>> Yes.

[00:27:06]So, um, British mince pies, as I've said, contain things like raisins, um, apple, orange peel, things like that.

[00:27:14]Um, which are the kind of dried fruits and sometimes fresh fruit, like apple, that you could find in the UK at Christmas time.

[00:27:22]Um, so then I decided to make a Taiwanese version using Taiwanese dried fruits.

[00:27:28]>> Mhm.

[00:27:28]>> So, which are really big here. That's fruit drying fruit is, um, a good way to preserve it, I guess. So, that's one of the reasons why it's popular here in Taiwan, where it's very humid, so food goes off quite quickly.

[00:27:39]Um, so I went and found lots of Taiwanese dried fruit, and I chopped it all up and mixed it all together, still with spices, um, and some sugar, and some alcohol, and that's Taiwanese mince meat. So, instead of the British ingredients, it's got, um, mango and pineapple and, uh, red guava and pomelo, which is a type of citrus, and what else?

[00:28:05]Star fruit.

[00:28:07]Um, I can't remember what else now, but yes, sort of, I guess we call them tropical fruits. So, Taiwanese fruits.

[00:28:14]Um, goji berries also, roselle.

[00:28:18]Um, yeah, all mixed together and let it marinate, and then I make the mince pies.

[00:28:23]>> And the results?

[00:28:25]>> The result's great. I I make the best mince pies in the world.

[00:28:28]>> Yeah.

[00:28:28]>> Um, not to brag, but I do.

[00:28:31]Um, so, and now I make the only Taiwanese mince pies in the world. So, >> Okay.

[00:28:37]>> pretty great.

[00:28:38]>> Excellent. It's only if only someone would invent some sort of uh, internet-based, um, web web-based cake transferring technology. You could actually 3D print I could 3D print them or something like that.

[00:28:54]Alas, not this time.

[00:28:56]Oh, yeah. You're drinking a cup of hot beverage. Uh last time we you had a If you remember last time you had a round mug and that sent us off on a on a tangent about the science physics of why a round mug retains the heat. Uh this time >> We're bad at that cuz we're not physicists.

[00:29:17]>> No, but you know, we had a stab at it certainly. But this time Yeah, we tried.

[00:29:21]This time you've got a different mug and it I'm I'm curious because there's something written on it.

[00:29:26]>> I've got a different mug. It's a political joke. How political is your podcast?

[00:29:30]>> Oh, it's not that political, but you know, it's it's okay.

[00:29:35]>> Is it that one?

[00:29:37]>> reading tofu-eating wokarati.

[00:29:40]So this is a Yeah.

[00:29:42]>> No, I don't know the quote, I think.

[00:29:45]What's the quote?

[00:29:46]>> Um the quote is from a very horrible British politician.

[00:29:52]Um can I name her?

[00:29:55]>> Yeah.

[00:29:57]>> Okay. Um her name's Suella Braverman.

[00:29:59]Um so I mean, you know who she is, but I guess a lot of your listeners won't know who she is. So she she was in the previous government, which was a conservative government. Um and they caused lots of problems by um giving money to their friends and not spending it on things like schools and hospitals, basically.

[00:30:15]Um sum it up. And then she decided um to blame all of the country's problems. She made a speech in Parliament where she said all of the country's problems were because of the Guardian reading tofu-eating wokarati.

[00:30:30]Um which basically means people who are on the other side of the political spectrum from her party, so more left-wing people. And the wokarati refers to people who are woke because woke is now like a negative word. But originally woke just means kind of aware of the different types of injustice that exist in the world.

[00:30:48]Um which I think is a good thing. I think you should be aware when somebody's being discriminated against.

[00:30:53]>> Generally injustice is so generally a bad thing.

[00:30:56]>> Yeah.

[00:30:57]>> Yeah.

[00:30:57]>> Yeah, so we should probably notice it when it happens. So anyway, so she got mocked a lot um for this quote where she blamed all of the country's problems while her own party was in power. She blamed all of the country's problems on the reading tofu-eating wokelati. And then I found this mug that said member of the Guardian reading tofu-eating wokelati and I thought that's the mug for me.

[00:31:20]>> Guardian reading, so reading the Guardian newspaper which is a left-leaning newspaper, tofu eating um apparently is apparently people who eat tofu uh are a terrible thing.

[00:31:32]Um in in the UK like maybe in Taiwan, maybe in Japan eating tofu is just totally normal. Uh whereas in the UK if you eat tofu, you might be seen as being a sort of I don't know what really.

[00:31:46]Um >> You think it's associated with like vegans and vegetarians?

[00:31:52]>> Mhm.

[00:31:52]>> Who for some people have a bad reputation because they have a reputation for being quite like like preachy. Like they're trying to make everyone into a vegetarian or a vegan.

[00:32:02]Uh which I think is a very old-fashioned view of vegans and vegetarians. I don't think that's true anymore. Um but yes, they have this kind of negative view that if you're if you're a real person, you should be eating meat all the time or something. I don't know. So >> Yeah.

[00:32:16]Yeah.

[00:32:17]Uh Right. Well, okay. Always an interesting mug involved. Um >> Also, can I show you my favorite spoon?

[00:32:24]>> You Yeah, of course you can show me your favorite spoon.

[00:32:28]>> This is my favorite spoon. It's a little cat. See?

[00:32:31]>> Audio listeners, Kate is showing me a spoon which is which is in the So, the bottom half of the spoon is like a normal spoon.

[00:32:39]Uh and the top half of the spoon is shaped in the form of a cat with its paws hanging forwards and it's it's formed it's like a little kind of clip.

[00:32:50]So, you can actually hang the spoon on the edge of your mug and it looks like there's a little cat sitting on the edge peeking over the top.

[00:32:58]Very nice.

[00:32:59]>> Yes.

[00:33:00]Yes. And I got it from a um a town in Taiwan which is a village which is known as the cat village.

[00:33:08]Um it's been like taken over by cats.

[00:33:10]Although some people do still live there. Um but it's mostly inhabited by cats now.

[00:33:16]>> What? And they're they're like running the the town. They've got post offices and >> bus stops.

[00:33:22]>> Absolutely.

[00:33:23]Representatives in parliament, all of it.

[00:33:27]>> They're running the schools, the hospitals.

[00:33:30]>> Yeah.

[00:33:31]>> been taken over by cats? I mean, genuinely taken over by cats?

[00:33:35]>> I think what happened was So, it used to be a mining village. Um and they I don't think they mine there anymore. Um so, when they stopped mining, then a lot of people left the village. So, there were lots of empty houses and um lots of cats maybe got left behind or there were just lots of cats there anyway. Um and then it kind of became known as a place that was full of cats. And you know, people love cats. So, it became like a tourist attraction um to go to this village which I think is called Houtong if I remember rightly or maybe Hotong. I can't remember. I'll look it up. Um one of my best friends came to visit Taiwan and she loves cats.

[00:34:15]Um so, she was like the only thing I want to do is go to this cat village.

[00:34:19]Um so, we went there on the train from Taipei. It's really close to Taipei and I got the spoon.

[00:34:24]Um and it was raining. So, actually the cats were not sort of out and about.

[00:34:28]Most of them were just like chilling under shelter. But there's cats in all the cafes, you know.

[00:34:33]Um everything's cat >> are humans there the humans there too running the cafes and stuff, but there are also loads of cats. Okay. So, that was me thinking it was just cats.

[00:34:43]>> No, sorry. Sorry, I I oversold that for you.

[00:34:47]>> Unfortunately, yeah, but it's that's still cool.

[00:34:50]Great. Cat lovers, this is the place for you. Go there. So, Taiwan, there you are. You're living in Taiwan. You've been there for 2 years now.

[00:34:58]Um >> Well, yeah, 2 and 1/2, yeah.

[00:35:00]>> 2 and 1/2 years.

[00:35:01]>> Yeah.

[00:35:02]>> So, how how is it? How's how is life in Taiwan? Is it different to life in Paris?

[00:35:07]>> Yes.

[00:35:09]>> Yeah?

[00:35:09]>> It's very different. Um yes, it is very different in many ways.

[00:35:14]Um I'm trying to think what the main differences are. It's it's incredibly safe. That's one of the best things about Taiwan.

[00:35:21]Um and Paris is not always safe. There's quite a lot of pickpockets.

[00:35:24]Um as a woman walking alone in Paris, there are places where you don't feel safe. Uh I think also as a man walking alone, there are places where you don't feel safe as well. Um and there you know, there are some problems around crime in in some parts of Paris more than others, but you know, I would say it's sort of a typical European city in that respect, you know.

[00:35:43]A lot of cities have those kinds of problems. Um Taiwan is incredibly safe.

[00:35:49]Um there's very very little crime. Um I think from what I've heard from Taiwanese friends, there's little crime.

[00:35:55]Tiny crime. It's just done by borrowers.

[00:35:57]You know, borrowers?

[00:35:59]>> Yeah. They're like smaller than hobbits.

[00:36:01]They're tiny little guys that come and steal steal your cat spoon or something.

[00:36:07]>> Yeah, that would really upset me. I think a cat spoon would be would be quite big for them to carry actually.

[00:36:14]>> Borrowers, that's >> who Yeah. People who don't know, the Borrowers was a book.

[00:36:20]I can't remember the name of the author.

[00:36:21]I think it's Mary something. You're looking it up.

[00:36:24]>> Probably. It sounds like it sounds like a Mary a Mary something.

[00:36:27]>> Yeah. It was it was a children's book that was written quite a long time ago.

[00:36:30]I read it as a kid, but when I read it, I think it was already quite old.

[00:36:33]And um it's about like tiny little people who live in in your house and they sort of hide away um like behind the walls and the little gaps between the walls. They're like tiny people.

[00:36:44]They're friendly people. Um and the idea is every time you lose something in your house, you know, like you do your washing and then one of your socks has gone, you can't figure out why.

[00:36:53]Uh things like that. The idea is it's The Borrowers that have taken it to use it for their own life. So, they're good people. They're not doing anything wrong. They're just borrowing.

[00:37:03]>> The Borrowers, Mary Norton.

[00:37:05]>> Oh, that's it. Okay, I half remembered.

[00:37:09]>> You were right about the Mary thing. And yeah, okay, so yeah, it's just a thing that we all know. I read The Borrowers when I was a kid as well.

[00:37:14]>> Yeah.

[00:37:15]It's quite old, isn't it? Does it say when it was published?

[00:37:18]>> Um No, I can't I don't have that information. I could probably find out.

[00:37:23]Hold on.

[00:37:24]Um Borrowers, 1952.

[00:37:28]>> Oh, it is quite old. Okay.

[00:37:29]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um yes, a family of tiny people who live secretly in the walls and floors of an English house and borrow from the big people in order to survive.

[00:37:41]Yeah. All right, cool. How do we end up talking about The Borrowers? I can't remember.

[00:37:45]>> I don't know. I've got no idea how we got to The Borrowers. I was just wondering that myself.

[00:37:50]>> No, but it's very safe. Taiwan is very safe.

[00:37:53]>> Little crime. Little crime.

[00:37:55]>> Little crime, except for the little crime. There's very little There's very little crime.

[00:38:00]It's The Borrowers borrowing things.

[00:38:02]Okay.

[00:38:05]What about traffic and transport in Taiwan? In Paris, you know, there's a lot of traffic jams and drivers get very angry and they beep their horns and they have arguments and shake their fists at each other and get out of their cars and in order to argue and then everyone else is beeping constantly. Transport, the metro is very, very crowded and kind of bit dirty and smelly.

[00:38:26]Uh what about in Taiwan? Is it similar, different?

[00:38:29]>> In Taiwan, the public transport is brilliant. Um the metro, which they call the MRT, which stands for metro rapid transit or metropolitan rapid transit, I think. Um yes, the MRT is spotlessly clean and very affordable.

[00:38:46]Um and the stations are all enormous and brightly lit and they've always got staff on duty and they're they work really well.

[00:38:55]Um they've always got toilets. I had a friend who visited who was like delighted that there were toilets everywhere.

[00:39:02]Which shouldn't be something to be excited about, but it's true that if you're out and about in Paris and you're looking for a public toilet, it's a nightmare.

[00:39:09]>> Yeah.

[00:39:09]>> Yeah, good luck.

[00:39:10]>> to you have to you have to go into a cafe and do this performance of like, "Oh, I'm terribly sorry, can I use your toilet?" Or you have to buy a coffee at the counter.

[00:39:18]>> Yeah.

[00:39:19]Which doesn't help when you need the toilet more.

[00:39:22]>> Exactly. It's the opposite of what you want.

[00:39:26]>> It's awful. Um yeah, here all of the MRT stations have toilets and everywhere else as well. There's just public toilets everywhere.

[00:39:33]Um the traffic is is good. I don't drive here. I haven't driven actually since the day I took my driving test in Paris about 7 years ago. So, I don't drive. Um >> You're a paper driver, that's what they call you in Japan.

[00:39:47]>> Do they? That's good.

[00:39:48]>> Yeah.

[00:39:49]>> But the even though the license isn't made of paper anymore, but maybe it still is in Japan.

[00:39:53]>> Even though yeah, but as far as I know, people still use that expression. But when I was living there, yes, people would would for some reason it it came up quite a lot.

[00:40:03]Uh people would say, "Oh, I'm a I'm a paper driver." It's like an English expression that they use in Japan.

[00:40:09]>> Oh, they would say it in English. Okay.

[00:40:12]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:13]Um so, you Okay, so you were a paper driver. Yeah, very nice.

[00:40:18]>> But yes, I've heard for driving here it's it can be a bit confusing. I think the different lanes and things, but I imagine it's like anywhere else when you get used to it, it's fine.

[00:40:31]Yes, and cycling is quite popular and very safe. People cycle on the pavement though.

[00:40:38]>> Oh, that wouldn't go down well in Paris.

[00:40:40]>> Wouldn't go down well in Paris or generally anywhere else I've lived.

[00:40:44]Or been really. I don't think I've seen other places where cycling on the pavement is a thing except for where there's like a designated cycle lane that happens to also be on the pavement.

[00:40:52]That's a different thing.

[00:40:54]And here you sometimes have that, but also even when you don't you can cycle on the pavement. It really surprised me.

[00:40:59]>> Cycling in Paris is like the big sort of divisive issue these days. I mean you were here Yeah, it was like 2 and 1/2 years ago so it was kind of the same story, but you know, the the city's been transformed to an extent with lots of cycle lanes around and uh >> I love it.

[00:41:15]>> you know, people haven't quite learned to handle it yet. You know, the cyclists jump the red lights constantly and pedestrians and cyclists are clashing quite a lot quite a lot. Um people don't people don't behave very well. Um so it's a bit of an issue. Hopefully everyone's going to learn how to cycle in this city in a civil kind of way.

[00:41:39]>> I used to cycle a lot in Paris.

[00:41:41]>> Yeah, you did. Yeah.

[00:41:43]>> Jumping the lights is is much more frowned upon here, I think than it is in Paris.

[00:41:49]Sometimes I cycle to work and if I know a crossing well and I can see that nothing's coming then I might jump the lights or if it's very early in the morning and there's very little traffic and again I can check carefully if nothing's coming.

[00:42:01]>> Little traffic that that's the burrow isn't it cars?

[00:42:05]>> But I think I jumped the lights more in Paris. Yeah.

[00:42:09]>> What about pedestrians? Do do do pedestrians in Taiwan cross the road when there's a red man or do they you know like again going back to my experience in Japan if we compare that people would stand in a big group at a crossroads with a completely empty road and everyone will wait until the green man comes on before crossing and if there's a green man people will run down the pavement so that they can get there in time to cross the road so they don't have to stand waiting.

[00:42:41]Very very strict.

[00:42:43]>> get my battery charger. Sorry I should have done this before.

[00:42:46]>> Go and get your battery charger.

[00:42:48]>> Okay sorry sorry sorry.

[00:42:49]>> No worries.

[00:42:51]I will take this opportunity to have a little drink of water.

[00:42:55]Drink drink drink drink drink. Mm.

[00:42:59]>> Oh I've been glugging away on my drink without a second thought for you. Sorry.

[00:43:02]>> How refreshing. No it's okay.

[00:43:04]I use I use a water break as a kind of ad break often.

[00:43:09]>> Oh okay.

[00:43:10]>> I'll take a pause for water and while I'm having my water I'll insert an ad slot.

[00:43:17]>> That's a good idea.

[00:43:19]>> Mm.

[00:43:20]>> Done.

[00:43:21]Plugged in. Sorry I should have seen that coming.

[00:43:23]>> It's all right. So yeah so people generally will wait for the green man they don't break the rules and cross at the red man.

[00:43:31]>> Yeah on a on a small road you can kind of cross wherever is convenient but definitely on a road with more than with like a double lanes of traffic people absolutely wait for the for the green man and the green man here um like he he moves his legs move like this and then when you've got and there's a countdown as well and when you've got less time left he goes faster he starts like running.

[00:43:58]It's really cute but apparently they're going to phase it out they're going to get rid of it I heard.

[00:44:04]>> Why would they do that? What they're going to get rid of the running the little running man? Or just That's sad, isn't it? He uses He uses too much He uses too much electricity.

[00:44:14]You know?

[00:44:15]It's like double the amount of electricity when he runs.

[00:44:19]>> Is it?

[00:44:20]>> One thing One thing in Paris that struck me and I I realized I'm mentioning some of the negative things about Paris and there are obviously positive things, too.

[00:44:28]Um but one thing that I I I noticed, especially when I came here, is the level of like friction or disagreement that you see between people. Like you'll see people arguing or complaining and a lot of friction. Um is there the same thing in Taiwan? Do you see people arguing like car drivers arguing or people in shops arguing or complaining?

[00:44:49]>> No. No, you don't see it to the same level at all.

[00:44:54]Um I think But I think Taiwanese people I had a Taiwanese student once a long time ago who told me that Taiwanese people are like um like the Italians of East Asia. And by which she meant that they are the most kind of expressive of all the kind of East Asian countries, which I guess you you know you'd include like South Korea, Japan, China.

[00:45:17]Um and other countries nearby, you know? Um and when I moved here, I did notice that people are people are quite expressive, I would say.

[00:45:27]Um But I think they don't tend to express much anger. It's very unusual to hear someone like shouting or people kind of arguing. Um But again, you know, my Chinese isn't perfect and also I'm only you know, I'm only seeing sort of certain parts of society, so I can't say that's a rule all over.

[00:45:49]Um but I would say yeah, less so than in French culture, where I think it's I think French people can be quite quite direct. It's maybe a a culture where it's more accepted to just you just say if something isn't the way you expected or isn't what you wanted and I think in Taiwan that's less the culture here.

[00:46:10]There's a more kind of polite There's a kind of rules of politeness. I don't want to say French people aren't polite cuz French people are often very polite. Um but there's a more kind of rules of maintaining a certain behavior publicly that I didn't notice as much in France or at least not in Paris.

[00:46:28]>> No, I don't want to suggest I know that that French people aren't polite cuz French people are actually sort of very polite and often more polite than than in the UK, you know, I'm thinking of like the way that people say bonjour and bonsoir to each other and you know, there are certain sort of rules of quite clearly defined rules of engagement in terms of the way you address people and the way that you turn up to a an event or a dinner party and it feels a lot more formal sometimes than it is in the UK for example where we sort of more quickly will use someone's first name. We kind of take on more informal kind of language patterns and things than than they do in France. So in some ways it's more polite and more formal than than the UK.

[00:47:14]>> Definitely. Yeah.

[00:47:17]Yeah, yeah. In some situations.

[00:47:18]>> In some situations. What about in What about in Taiwan? What about the weather? Do you And do you And do you have earthquakes?

[00:47:26]>> Yes, we have earthquakes.

[00:47:28]Um we had When was it? Um about 6 months after I moved here. So Yeah, going on 2 years ago. I think it'll be 2 years in April. Um there was a really big earthquake. That was the biggest one in 25 years. Um yeah, so it must have been just after I spoke to you, I think.

[00:47:55]Um yeah, and that was a good one. Um, yeah, I remember that one quite distinctly. It woke me up um, in the morning and I rushed outside. I was living in a I was living in a sublet at the time. Uh, the one that had the great spherical mug that I miss very much cuz it didn't belong to me so I had to leave it behind. Very sad. Um, I was living there and it had a it was a rooftop so there was a roof terrace at the back of the apartment and I had to like run out to the roof terrace and then there was a building being built quite nearby that I could see. It was covered in scaffolding and had that kind of blue plastic sheeting covering it that you get on building sites sometimes and I watched that whole building like shake from side to side while I was also shaking and I remember thinking you know, this if that building falls, that's like the whole neighborhood is going to feel the impact of that.

[00:48:48]>> Yeah.

[00:48:48]>> Um, and it was really like it looked like it could fall.

[00:48:51]Um, but it didn't obviously that would have been big news. Um, and afterwards I was just like, "Oh God, I wish I'd taken my phone with me and recorded that cuz I could have sold that footage to the BBC."

[00:49:01]>> Yeah.

[00:49:02]>> Never mind.

[00:49:03]Um, I think the important thing is that I was lucky to survive the earthquake um, and should probably not be thinking about whether or not I got it recorded.

[00:49:11]Um, so yeah, that was a really big one. Um, actually I say I'm lucky to survive it but Taiwan had um, an incredibly low uh, death toll from that earthquake considering the size of the earthquake.

[00:49:23]>> Yeah.

[00:49:24]>> I think in total I think under 20 people died in the earthquake and a lot of them were hikers so they you know, there was rockfall and you're just very unlucky if you're like hiking in a gorge or something at that point and there's rockfall you you can't you know, you can't predict that.

[00:49:42]Um, >> I guess a lot of the buildings >> building regulations so >> Right, and the buildings are designed to deal with earthquakes. They flex and shake. Is this again same in Japan. They obviously they get a lot of earthquakes there and I experienced a few of them.

[00:49:58]You know, a few when I was up high in buildings and the building sways left and right, which is an extraordinary experience. It feels like the built someone is bumping the building. It's like someone's pushing like you're sitting on a chair and someone's pushing your chair and then and then the building sways left and right and looking out the window you see that everything around you is like, "Oh my god." The the the way it sways and then bumps and sways again. Yeah, what a what a crazy thing that is to experience if you've never experienced it before.

[00:50:28]Mhm.

[00:50:29]>> Yeah, it is quite scary. There've been there've been some others since that big one, but not nowhere near as big.

[00:50:34]Um luckily.

[00:50:36]>> Yeah. Okay, thank goodness for that.

[00:50:39]Have you had any misadventures out there?

[00:50:42]>> Misadventures?

[00:50:43]>> Or adventures?

[00:50:45]>> Or adventures.

[00:50:46]Misadventures.

[00:50:50]>> I'm just thinking of things in the past like you've talked about missing trains.

[00:50:55]>> Oh no, yeah, that was a bad day.

[00:50:58]I think about that quite a lot.

[00:51:01]>> Wake up in the middle of the night.

[00:51:04]>> I still think about it.

[00:51:07]>> Wrong platform, which platform?

[00:51:11]>> A friend of mine here well I I don't know him very well, but a guy I know here missed a train once. Um and accidentally he accidentally got on the wrong train.

[00:51:23]They've got a really good high speed rail service in Taiwan that can take you kind of all over the country and he accidentally got on the wrong high speed rail all the way down to the south of the country like the furthest it goes.

[00:51:35]And he realized once he was on it, but obviously it doesn't stop very often, right? Because it's high speed, so it only goes to you know, three or four stops on the way. So when he was on the way and he realized he was on the wrong train, um he went and told a guard who didn't speak very good English. Um but they managed to communicate with each other. And the guard just sort of at the final stop, he just like escorted him off the train and gave him to another guard who then like escorted him along onto another train that took him back to where he came from.

[00:52:06]So it was like a whole day of him just sitting on a train being like, "Oh no, I got on the wrong train."

[00:52:13]Um but they were so nice about it apparently. You know, they didn't make him buy buy a ticket or anything. They were just like, "Well, that was silly.

[00:52:18]Off you go."

[00:52:21]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's It's when when you don't want to get on the wrong train when it's a high-speed train taking you to the opposite end of the country.

[00:52:29]Yeah, okay.

[00:52:30]>> I mean, it's a small country, but still.

[00:52:33]>> Still.

[00:52:34]Indeed.

[00:52:35]>> Still. Yes. Um so, no misadventures? No, I mean, I think I've I've been very lucky in Taiwan. Um It's also it is It's a country where it's very convenient as a country. It's very kind of set up to make life easy in many ways. Um There's still some things that are strangely low-tech. Like at Like banking is quite low-tech still. Um so, I have like a a like a checking book, a banking book. Um which you just don't get in for example in the UK. You don't get that anymore. Um you know, it's all kind of digital. You can get printed statements if you still want to, but but here I've got a banking book. Um And so, some things can be quite low-tech, but overall I would say, yeah, the country is kind of set up to be convenient. Um which I think reduces the risk of misadventures, as you said.

[00:53:30]Because that time that I caught the wrong train in Paris, it was 100% because of bad signage on the platform.

[00:53:36]>> Signage.

[00:53:38]>> Yeah. Oh, drove me mad. The signage here is really good.

[00:53:42]>> Yeah, you've talked before about the the tip-top signage.

[00:53:45]>> satisfying to look at.

[00:53:47]>> How satisfying.

[00:53:49]Um >> Yeah.

[00:53:49]>> going back to your Chinese um >> Yes.

[00:53:52]>> you mentioned before it's it's all right.

[00:53:55]Um >> Yeah, it's all right.

[00:53:57]>> I'm just curious about a couple of things. So, one is that you before you said you were using an app to improve your Chinese. Do you remember that? You said you were using an app called Skritter.

[00:54:06]>> I still am.

[00:54:08]>> Still are? Okay, so So, how would you rate >> day since I moved to Taiwan.

[00:54:12]>> Every day, wow. So, that's like a 2 and 1/2 year streak.

[00:54:16]>> Yeah, should I check my streak? Cuz my my streak shows how many days I've lived in Taiwan, which I find so pleasing.

[00:54:23]It's keeping track of that for me. Uh let me see.

[00:54:26]918.

[00:54:28]>> 918 straight days, that's an unbelievable streak. So, tell me about this app. Uh how does it work and how would you rate its effectiveness?

[00:54:36]>> I would rate it 10 out of 10. I think it's a great app.

[00:54:39]>> Seriously? Okay, what does it do?

[00:54:42]>> So, um it shows you So, you can either input your own vocabulary or you can use their existing decks of vocabulary. They call it a deck, like a deck of cards, uh cuz they are vocabulary cards. Um so, let's imagine you want to learn um food and drink vocabulary. So, you would look at one of their decks. I don't know. I looked at one about fruit, for example.

[00:55:05]Um and then for each card, it will show you uh how to write it, so the stroke order, cuz when you write Chinese, you've got to write the lines in the correct order.

[00:55:16]Um and it'll get you to practice that three times. It'll show you the pronunciation, and you can also listen to it. Um it will obviously show you the meaning, definition. Um so, you go through all of those things, and then you can test yourself on it. So, it will come up with the card, and for example, it'll give you the definition in English, and you have to write it in Chinese.

[00:55:37]Um if you want to, you can get it to show you the definition and the pronunciation, and then you write it.

[00:55:42]Or you can do just definition.

[00:55:44]Um, and it will also check on pronunciation, and check on the meaning as well by just showing you the Chinese, and you've got to come up with the definition in English. Um And then, when you've done it, so say asks me to write the word for grape in Chinese. Uh, I would write it, and then I can say how easy I found it. So, there's uh, four options, which is um which are um um >> English speak you. Uh, um, do.

[00:56:14]>> English I speak am.

[00:56:16]>> Mhm.

[00:56:17]>> What are the options? I can't I can't remember. There's one that one that means I didn't get it right. Um, but it's not fail, it's more positive than that.

[00:56:25]Um Oh, yeah, one of them is forgot, meaning I didn't get it right.

[00:56:30]Then you can choose hard. Then you can choose easy.

[00:56:34]Uh, you can choose got it. Or you can choose easy.

[00:56:36]So, if you click, um, I forgot it, then the next time you review your cards, it will come up.

[00:56:42]And if you click easy, then it won't test you again for, say, a week. And then if you click easy again, it wouldn't test you again for for like a month, because it knows that you know that card.

[00:56:52]So, it's um spaced repetition is what it does.

[00:56:56]>> Repeatedly, yeah, showing you the cards that you need. And the reason it's so good is because it makes you write the characters.

[00:57:04]And you have to get the stroke order correct.

[00:57:07]Um, so that's that's the best way to practice Chinese. And that's why it's so good.

[00:57:13]>> It doesn't get you to put those words into sentences.

[00:57:17]>> No, it doesn't. Um, but then it kind of comes down to how strict you are with yourself, because um I would say if I if I see a word and it asks me the definition, and I can tell you the definition, but I couldn't use it in a sentence. I would probably still mark it as a hard word or maybe even forgot.

[00:57:39]>> So, in your mind, you're kind of you're considering putting those words into sentences. You're you're kind of thinking about oh, can I actually use this?

[00:57:47]Yeah. So, that's that's that thing that's like the maybe one of those things that perhaps you do that not everyone would automatically think of doing, which is that as well as making sure that you've got the stroke order correct and you understand the meaning, there's that other vital step, which is like can I actually use this to say something?

[00:58:04]And you're almost automatically thinking that, and that's part of your process for deciding whether you found it easy or not. Yeah.

[00:58:12]Uh but spaced repetition, yeah, it's a spaced repetition flash card app. Yeah, I mean, they work.

[00:58:17]>> Yeah, they work. And the reason why it's such a good one for Chinese is because of that um writing function that most spaced repetition apps obviously don't come with.

[00:58:27]Um so, that's why it's so good for Chinese. And it is I mean, you're right that it's not testing your ability to use them in sentences, but then that's not really the purpose of the app. It's really a a vocabulary memorization app.

[00:58:39]So, for that purpose, I would give it 10 out of 10, definitely.

[00:58:42]>> Yeah, I see. Okay, very interesting. I suppose in English, similar apps, any kind of spaced repetition app will do more or less the same thing, but the one that everyone talks about is Anki, A N K I. I don't know if you've heard of that.

[00:58:56]>> Yeah, I used that one when I first studied Chinese. Yeah.

[00:59:00]>> You did? Okay.

[00:59:02]It worked all right? Do you think it's decent?

[00:59:04]>> Good, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's good.

[00:59:06]Um and there's I mean, you can also use things like Quizlet as well. Quizlet is a flash card app, and that the idea of Quizlet is that you input your own information, so you could also have um you know, if you're studying I don't know, biology and you need to learn something about the human body, you could put in all of these body parts and you could test yourself on those, for example.

[00:59:28]Yeah.

[00:59:29]>> Or if you're a subscriber to my premium podcast, you can use the vocab lists that I provide and turn those into into flashcard decks if you wanted to. That would be a good idea, wouldn't it?

[00:59:41]>> Great idea.

[00:59:42]>> Duolingo, have you ever used Duolingo?

[00:59:46]>> I am using Duolingo. I used Duolingo to learn a bit of German before I went to Germany a few years ago.

[00:59:55]Then when I first got here I did use it for Chinese for a while, but I think it's the Chinese isn't great and also it uses simplified characters and Taiwan uses complex characters or traditional characters.

[01:00:08]So I wasn't reading the same characters on Duolingo which is less useful. And I think it's really really good for more beginner level.

[01:00:18]Certainly in Chinese. So it kind of got to the point where I was just repeating things that I didn't really need and I found it a bit frustrating. So then I didn't want to lose my Duolingo streak.

[01:00:28]So I switched to something else. I went back to German for a while and then I started doing chess on Duolingo.

[01:00:35]>> You can do chess on Duolingo? That's odd.

[01:00:37]>> Yeah.

[01:00:38]>> involve learning language as well?

[01:00:40]>> No, it's just learning how to play chess.

[01:00:43]They also do maths and music.

[01:00:45]>> Really? I didn't know that.

[01:00:47]>> Yeah.

[01:00:48]>> Okay.

[01:00:48]>> So I picked it mostly because I didn't know anything about chess and I wanted something kind of new and challenging on Duolingo that would keep me going so I wouldn't lose my streak because the German obviously isn't that useful when you live in Taiwan.

[01:01:04]And I might go back to it at some point soon cuz I do like German. I think it's a cool language.

[01:01:09]And yeah, the Chinese wasn't great.

[01:01:12]So yeah, I changed to chess so I could keep my streak. Do you want to know what my Duolingo streak is?

[01:01:16]>> Yes, please. This is from before you moved. This This from before you moved to Taiwan, I suppose.

[01:01:22]>> Yeah.

[01:01:23]Yeah.

[01:01:23]>> Every day, every single day.

[01:01:26]>> Yeah, it's it's a bit it's a bit sad, isn't it?

[01:01:29]1,201 days.

[01:01:35]>> 1,201 day streak, that is ridiculous.

[01:01:39]>> Duo is sad cuz I haven't done it today.

[01:01:41]>> Yeah, do you not find that >> I've done it for 1,201 days, chill out.

[01:01:46]>> Yeah, Duo is the name of the owl, this green owl. Do you not find that he, she, they are a bit sort of passive-aggressive, a little bit manipulative?

[01:01:58]>> Yeah, I turned off all the notifications. And you know what, actually, one of the only reasons I have it is because I did I did rate Skritter 10 out of 10, but I have to admit, one thing that they don't have is they don't send you a reminder to practice every day.

[01:02:14]>> Okay, you don't need that.

[01:02:15]>> though.

[01:02:16]Well, Duolingo, you can set it to send you reminders, but I'm not doing that. I I hate all the messages I get as it is.

[01:02:22]I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't opt into more messages.

[01:02:25]Um but, what it does do, as I've just shown you on the screen, is it it does the like sad little owl face. It's going like, "Why haven't you practiced yet?"

[01:02:34]So, I use that to remind me to make sure I've done my Skritter.

[01:02:38]Cuz I have to do Skritter first in the day cuz I don't want to lose my Skritter streak, because that's how long >> doesn't realize that it's actually helping to promote a an a competitor.

[01:02:50]>> An app I pay for.

[01:02:52]Yeah.

[01:02:52]>> Yeah, that's right.

[01:02:53]Uh but yeah, that owl though, he can be a bit he, they, it, I don't know. It can be a bit sort of like, "I'm worried about you. I'm worried about you, Kate.

[01:03:01]You haven't practiced. I'm worried about you."

[01:03:04]You know, that sort of that level of guilt.

[01:03:07]>> Yeah, I don't care cuz it's not a real thing.

[01:03:10]>> It works though, I think that's the thing. It works.

[01:03:13]>> Is it Do you use Duolingo?

[01:03:15]>> No, I mean it works in terms of it guilt tripping you into using it. That works.

[01:03:20]I don't actually use Duolingo, surprise, surprise. Um, and it's a little bit, I don't know, it's controversial is the word, but you get, you know, there's like a uh, a community of language learners on the internet, you know, on YouTube, YouTubers, polyglots, the the internet polyglot community. Um, and quite a lot of people think that Duolingo's rubbish and they they make videos about how bad it is and stuff like that. So, I was just curious as to whether you found it useful or not. Um, >> I have to admit, I still don't know how to play chess.

[01:03:55]>> Well, there you go. But you certainly spent a lot of time on Duolingo. Yeah.

[01:03:59]>> Yeah, I do. I've no idea how to play chess. I've got no clue.

[01:04:03]>> Really?

[01:04:04]>> Yeah.

[01:04:04]>> Okay. Okay. Now, I'm going to Can I test your Chinese?

[01:04:08]>> Yeah, go on.

[01:04:10]>> All right.

[01:04:10]>> you going to know if I get it right or not?

[01:04:12]>> No idea, but my listeners will know.

[01:04:15]>> Oh, that's fine.

[01:04:16]>> I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I do mean to put you on the spot, I suppose.

[01:04:21]Um, last time what you did is you told a joke, the librarian joke, which is a great joke because it works across all different languages, right? Um, the joke being, man walks into a library, says, um, "I'd like fish and chips, please." The librarian says, "No, uh, this is a library." And the person goes, "Oh, sorry, I'll have fish and chips, please."

[01:04:43]Great joke.

[01:04:44]Ha, ha, ha.

[01:04:46]And you translated that into Chinese.

[01:04:47]Now, I've got a couple of other jokes for you. I wonder if you could try and translate them into Chinese. This might be >> Okay, cool. They can't be word play, right? Cuz that won't work.

[01:04:59]>> Exactly. Exactly. So, I've tried to find jokes that are not based on a double meaning of a word.

[01:05:05]>> Okay. Okay.

[01:05:06]>> Huh.

[01:05:08]Um, I don't know if this is going to work.

[01:05:11]So, this is a Tim Vine joke.

[01:05:13]>> Oh, okay. Great.

[01:05:15]>> I don't know if this I don't think this is a a word play joke, but let's see.

[01:05:20]So, >> Okay.

[01:05:21]>> We'll see. So, the joke is this. I rang up my local swimming baths and I said, "Is that the local swimming baths?" And he said, "Well, it depends where you're calling from."

[01:05:36]Mhm.

[01:05:38]>> Okay.

[01:05:38]>> a language It's not a double meaning joke, is it?

[01:05:41]>> It's not, but I can't remember how to say local. Is it d dao? I think that's authentic in that sense of local. I'm going to look up local. Can I do that now?

[01:05:49]>> Yeah, of course.

[01:05:51]>> Okay.

[01:05:51]>> That's the joke, listeners. Right, you notice that it's the it's the joke is really based around the word local. Is that the local swimming baths? Well, it depends where you're calling from.

[01:06:01]Mhm.

[01:06:02]>> Oh, this is hard. Is it dang di? Oh, okay.

[01:06:07]>> Yes, it's dang di.

[01:06:08]>> going to find a good translation. Hang on.

[01:06:11]Oh, no. My keyboard's in French.

[01:06:16]>> I know that I know that problem.

[01:06:19]Trying to write a Q and it comes out as >> it looks like Yeah.

[01:06:24]So annoying. Um I think it's dang di. I think that's the correct meaning of dang di. Okay.

[01:06:33]So, I think it should be wo gei wo de wo wo gei wo dang di da uh you yong che da dian hua uh wo wen ta men uh zhe shi bu shi dang di de you yong che ta men shuo yao kan ni cong na li da dian hua >> I think it's that if dang di is correct.

[01:07:05]>> So, listeners, so if you if if you speak Chinese, you can let us know how Kate got on with that.

[01:07:10]Give her a score out of three. Give her a score out of three.

[01:07:13]>> Out of three? Why is it out of three?

[01:07:16]>> It's just easier, isn't it?

[01:07:18]What would you prefer? Out of 10?

[01:07:20]>> Yeah.

[01:07:21]>> It's easy to give a score out of three.

[01:07:23]It's much easier to to >> It's your podcast, isn't it?

[01:07:27]>> It's my podcast. I decide the rules. Um >> That's fair.

[01:07:31]>> Okay, how about this one?

[01:07:33]Um This is a Bob Monkhouse joke. Do you remember Bob Monkhouse?

[01:07:38]>> I know of him.

[01:07:41]>> Sort of TV TV guy, TV presenter from the '80s. Very funny man.

[01:07:47]Anyway, his joke is this: I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

[01:08:00]I don't know if everyone got the joke. I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

[01:08:08]>> Mhm.

[01:08:09]>> there's a subtext to the joke, isn't there, Kate? Can you Can you tell us what it is?

[01:08:14]>> So, can you do that while I look up the word for passenger?

[01:08:17]>> Yeah. I'll be I'll be glad to do that.

[01:08:19]So, let me dissect the frog.

[01:08:22]Um So, I want to die in my sleep like my father. So, his father died in his sleep, died peacefully in his sleep, which is what we all want, isn't it? You know, really. This is all we can hope for is to die peacefully in our sleep.

[01:08:35]I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father, not screaming in terror like his passengers. So, the the the second line there tells us gives us more information. It tells us that actually his father was probably a pilot of an airplane.

[01:08:50]And he died because he fell asleep while piloting the plane, and the plane crashed, and everybody was killed, including all the passengers, who were screamed in terror as the plane, no doubt, plummeted towards the ground or maybe crashed into the side of a mountain or something like that. So, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

[01:09:14]So, it's a clever joke because it tells you there's you read between the lines and you understand what actually happened that his father fell asleep while piloting a plane and everyone died.

[01:09:25]What's the Chinese version though, Kate?

[01:09:27]>> Hilarious. What a great ending.

[01:09:32]Okay. So, I think pass- I found a word for passenger, which I think is correct.

[01:09:35]You know you should always just be careful of online dictionaries or dictionaries generally.

[01:09:40]Um but I think it's chángkè.

[01:09:43]Um cháng is like the verb for like to take a form of transport and kè is a is a word that can mean like guest or visitor or passenger in this case.

[01:09:53]Um and then I I also had to look up terror and I found kǒngjù. Is it kǒng?

[01:09:59]No, kǒngjù.

[01:10:01]Um and then I also had to look up screaming and I found jiānjiào.

[01:10:07]Um so, >> Mhm.

[01:10:09]>> jiānjiào. Is it Yeah. So, so I've got cháng- chángzuò and kǒng- kǒngjù and jiānjiào. Okay, so, I think it should be wǒ xiǎng yào gēn wǒ bàba yíyàng zài shuìjiào de shíhou ānjìng de sǐqù.

[01:10:30]Bù xiǎng yào gēn tā de chéngkè yíyàng zài That's it.

[01:10:39]Um zài zài uh kǒngjù de jiānjiào sǐqù.

[01:10:49]Okay, I think that was a very clumsy translation.

[01:10:52]>> Okay.

[01:10:53]>> That's the joke.

[01:10:54]>> Listeners, you You give your a out of three, up to three stars for that particular translation. Okay, good. I'm glad. I'm glad that you enjoyed that part.

[01:11:03]>> we've probably got about 10 minutes left, so >> Yes. I want to Well, I wanted to say I just We don't have a lot of time left, so you mentioned coffee shops.

[01:11:12]>> Yes.

[01:11:12]>> Right?

[01:11:13]Yes. Last time you said on the podcast that you There you were living in in Taiwan, still there. Um you said that you were struggling to find a place to get a really great cup of coffee in the morning on the way to work.

[01:11:25]I did actually receive a few comments from listeners.

[01:11:28]>> It was more like Sorry, I interrupted you. It was more like a cuz I was working in the afternoons and evenings.

[01:11:33]I wanted a coffee shop where I could go and like chill out in the morning and enjoy my morning. So, not just to pick up and a coffee to go.

[01:11:41]Um but more like a nice area to stay and spend time.

[01:11:44]>> Okay. Yeah, so that's what you were looking for. I did get a few comments.

[01:11:49]Um I don't know if I should read them out now. Maybe I'll I'll do that after.

[01:11:52]But you have You have a coffee-related uh thing to to report, don't you?

[01:11:58]>> Yeah, which in many ways is the reason why we ended up doing this podcast again, cuz I contacted you to tell you about it. So, um a few I guess like a maybe a couple of months ago now, um I was up in the north of Taipei in an area I didn't go to very often, but I was there with a friend um because she wanted to go to like a homeware store and I was helping her sort out some stuff for her new apartment. Um so, we went to a coffee shop on our way that's called Intro Coffee. Um and we were having a really nice time there. We had all this like delicious brunchy brunchy breakfasty lunchy food um and some very good coffee as well.

[01:12:35]And then someone came over to us um and said, uh "Excuse me, are you Kate?"

[01:12:41]Um and I said, "Oh, yeah, I am. So, I I I don't think I know you." Um and they said, "Oh, um I I listen to Luke's English Podcast."

[01:12:51]Um and I I sent you a message because I run this coffee shop.

[01:12:56]Um, and their name was Tien. They were very, very nice. Um, and they said, you know, you said you were looking for coffee shops in Taipei, and I found you on Instagram, and I sent you this message. Um, and I realized I had realized actually already that on Instagram there's a thing that you get there like message requests.

[01:13:13]And I learned this like I learned this I think maybe 6 months ago. So, any messages that were sent like a long time ago, they've gone now. You know, so I had never seen Tien's message. Um, I did realize about 6 months ago that I had probably missed other messages, but it was way too late. Um, and yeah, Tien Tien offered us coffee, which was delicious. These like really amazing different types of coffee. One of them was like a coconut milk coffee latte. I can't remember what the other one was. It was really fresh and minty, and I think it had um, like soda water as well, and it was a like an iced coffee. Uh, very refreshing. Um, it was delicious. Um, and I took a picture, and I sent it to you. Um, and yeah, it's thanks to Tien that we decided to do another podcast, really, because I messaged you about that, and it was such a lovely experience. Um, and yeah, thank like shout out to Tien and to Intro Coffee, uh, which is in the north of Taipei. Um, I want to say it's near Shipai Metro Station. I might have got that wrong.

[01:14:14]Um, but it's yeah, up in the north. Um, and it was delicious coffee and delicious food and a very lovely space.

[01:14:21]A beautiful space. Um, and all uh, based around music and decorated with different types of records. Uh, they do events there as well, and I think they do live music sometimes in the evenings.

[01:14:33]Um, yeah, it was beautiful, and absolutely great. And just so lovely to be recognized from the podcast, as well.

[01:14:39]Uh, that's great. Tien was there and came over to say hi. Yeah.

[01:14:43]>> That is that is really, really lovely.

[01:14:45]Um, very happy that that happened, uh, for several reasons. One that you uh, you found a great place for a morning coffee and a time to spend, you know, enjoying yourself. And yeah, that you had a lovely encounter with a Taiwanese lepster, um >> Yeah.

[01:15:01]>> which is a wonderful thing. Yes, my lepsters are all very lovely. And so I'm very happy that that happened.

[01:15:07]Great. I did get some comments. I I got some comments after we had that conversation you talked about struggling to find, you know, your ideal morning coffee place.

[01:15:17]I don't know if I shared these with you before, but let me just read them to you now just to just at the end of the episode.

[01:15:23]>> Go on.

[01:15:23]>> Yeah. So, uh uh uh Mavis uh wrote, "In Taiwan, it is a bit different from the UK. We always eat breakfast in the morning, but coffee isn't a must for most people. Coffee culture only really started here in the past 20 years, so you'll find lots of breakfast shops or food vans open early, but not many cafes. Most cool coffee shops open around 10:00 a.m. or later because for us cafes are more like a place for afternoon tea, relaxing, reading, or taking a short break from work. Um, so have you Kate, have you managed to work out your coffee routine? Have you found places where you can >> coffee at home now, I have to admit.

[01:16:04]Um, but there are some nice coffee shops that I go to sometimes. I'm always up for trying new coffee shops. And also now with my new job, um, as I said, I work mostly mornings and afternoons. So I'm now more free to enjoy the majority of Taiwanese coffee shops, which do open later in the day.

[01:16:21]Yeah.

[01:16:22]>> I've actually got some recommendations from listeners. I wonder if you know any of these places. So this is a comment from Jill. She said, "Hi Luke and Kate, what a surprise knowing that Kate is in Taipei now. I want to recommend a great cafe in Taipei which opens at 8:30 in the morning with great coffee and food.

[01:16:38]Sometimes there is a cat in the cafe walking around or sleeping. It's called the cat. dot jpeg cafe.

[01:16:45]>> Oh, I don't know that one. Oh, interesting.

[01:16:48]>> jpg cafe with its own actual cat.

[01:16:52]Yeah, like a jpeg photograph.

[01:16:56]>> Okay, shall I look it up now and see if it's close to where I am?

[01:16:59]>> I do have the Google Maps link for it, which I'll send to you now via WhatsApp, so you can have a look and see if it's somewhere you recognize.

[01:17:07]While you're doing that, I can share another comment from Shaya.

[01:17:11]>> Oh, okay.

[01:17:12]>> He wrote, "Hi Hi Kate, here are some nice coffee shops open in the morning in Taipei. There's the folks >> Yes, I've I've discovered that one. That one's great. Very loud music though, but I like sitting outside.

[01:17:24]>> Okay.

[01:17:24]The quiet light.

[01:17:27]>> No loud music, extremely quiet.

[01:17:30]Um also very nice. Sometimes too quiet though, like I'm nervous about crunching my toast there.

[01:17:36]So, go there when you want really calm, really quiet, literally the quiet place, but very nice. Yes.

[01:17:41]>> Okay. Will back cafe.

[01:17:45]>> I think there might be a few of those.

[01:17:46]Is it like a little chain maybe?

[01:17:49]>> Possibly. I don't know.

[01:17:50]>> I have had their takeaway coffee, but I haven't eaten in.

[01:17:54]It was very good coffee.

[01:17:55]>> And melon coffee.

[01:17:58]>> Oh, I think I know that name, but I don't think I've been to it.

[01:18:04]>> Okay. And there's another one that's that's I don't know how to read it because it's kind of written I guess in Chinese characters. I'm sending you the name by WhatsApp.

[01:18:14]>> Okay.

[01:18:15]>> that?

[01:18:15]>> Oh, Jen Bai Jen 2.0. So, Jen is the the character means person.

[01:18:22]Person by person.

[01:18:24]2.0. I think I've been to that one. I'm not sure why it's 2.0 though.

[01:18:28]>> I thought that was person cuz in Japanese that's the same thing. This symbol with the two two lines curved lines going from one point to two separate points going down.

[01:18:38]>> Yes.

[01:18:39]>> Means person in Japanese as well.

[01:18:41]Um person by person.

[01:18:43]2.0 >> I have been to that one. It's very nice and they do lovely um toasts and baked goods as well.

[01:18:50]So yes, I've been to that one as well. I feel like I'm doing quite well on the list of recommendations.

[01:18:54]>> I think I think you you learn you you knew all of those.

[01:18:59]So >> I I I knew most of them. I was not sure about Cat JPEG and Melon Coffee. I will check them out.

[01:19:04]>> Yeah. Okay. Well, good. I'm glad if uh those comments have uh going to help you finding the right place for coffee in the mornings.

[01:19:13]Um and yeah, look, we've run out of time, uh which obviously happens. Uh it was a pleasure to talk to you again, Kate. And >> Yes, it was a pleasure to be here.

[01:19:23]>> Yeah, very very glad that uh things are going well for you over there and everything. Um >> Thank you.

[01:19:29]>> And so uh I uh plans to stay or return to Europe or what?

[01:19:34]>> at least obviously for this academic year and next academic year as well. Um so this academic year ends in June, so then obviously the next one will end next June. Um and then after that I'm not sure. It kind of depends um yeah, what things are like here, how things are going at my school, and you know, whether or not I need to head back to Europe cuz I do feel a bit far from my family here. That's the downside.

[01:19:57]>> Yeah.

[01:19:58]>> Um cuz it is far.

[01:19:59]So >> It is, isn't it?

[01:20:01]>> Yes.

[01:20:01]Yeah.

[01:20:03]>> Listeners in Taiwan, and I do have quite a lot. If you see Kate out and about, say hi.

[01:20:10]>> Yeah, and give me a coffee.

[01:20:12]>> Give her a free coffee.

[01:20:14]Even if you don't work in a coffee shop.

[01:20:15]Kate, hold on a minute.

[01:20:17]>> Send me a coffee. Just give me a coffee.

[01:20:20]>> Just give her a coffee. You'll be walking around carrying all these coffees. You won't know what to do with them all.

[01:20:24]>> Yes.

[01:20:24]>> Excellent. Okay.

[01:20:26]Brilliant.

[01:20:27]Thank you so much, Kate. Speak to you again soon.

[01:20:29]>> Thank you. Yes, speak to you soon.

[01:20:33]>> Bye.

[01:20:33]>> Bye.

[01:20:37]So there you go. That was my conversation with Kate. I hope you enjoyed it and I look forward to reading comments that you might have in the comment section wherever you're listening to this or watching this.

[01:20:48]Thanks again to Kate for being a guest on the podcast. It's always nice to have her on this show. I just want to remind you there is a full transcript available for this conversation so you can read and check vocabulary.

[01:21:02]And we know, don't we? Everyone knows.

[01:21:04]We all know. I've talked about it so many times that um it's important to try and push your English further beyond just listening to uh my content.

[01:21:14]Uh you know, you can find uh vocab to help broaden your English. Um you can do things like listen and repeat after me to practice your pronunciation. You can do all those things, but they all require quite a lot of effort on your part to go the extra mile and to search transcripts and pick out words and phrases, research them, look them up in dictionaries, find example sentences, make sure that you understand the pronunciation of all those things, practice them, test yourself again.

[01:21:48]You know, all that stuff, it does require quite a lot of effort from you.

[01:21:53]But in episodes of Luke's English Podcast Premium, I do that for you. I kind of put it all on a plate for you.

[01:22:00]And as I said earlier, there is a premium episode uh with a full vocabulary quiz for this conversation and then a detailed vocab list and discussion questions to help you actually practice using all the vocab too so that you can have a conversation like this in the same way that we had it.

[01:22:19]Um so yeah, I've saved you the trouble of checking, researching, recording, listing vocab, idioms, expressions and stuff. I've I've done it all for you, basically. So, if you check out LEP Premium, you'll be able to get all of that in the vocab review episode that I've done for this.

[01:22:36]If you're a premium listener, make sure you didn't Make sure you don't miss that cuz it'll really help you to broaden your vocab and improve your English with this episode. Now, here's a taste. Here's a tiny taste of the vocab quiz that I've prepared. The actual quiz for premium listeners has got over 40 items of vocabulary in it.

[01:22:57]Here's a little taste of just four questions from my vocab quiz for four bits of vocabulary that you just heard, in fact, in that conversation. So, this is just a small selection of the quiz for the premium episode I made for this conversation with Kate. So, my first question is this, what expression means suddenly finding yourself in a situation that you didn't choose and it's quite difficult to manage. You quickly have to learn, like for example, suddenly moving to a new country and having to learn the language quickly.

[01:23:30]You heard Kate and me talking about this situation of like learning situations in which you have to learn English and one of those situations in is where you are suddenly mhm a situation where you have to learn the language. You are to be mhm a situation where you have to learn a language. It's not I ended up in a situation. It's not I found myself in a situation, although those are both great phrasal verbs or phrases.

[01:23:59]I ended up in that situation. I found myself in that situation. I was mhm that situation where I had to learn the language. I was thrown into To be thrown into a situation.

[01:24:11]I think it was Kate who said that.

[01:24:13]Sometimes people are thrown into situations where they have to learn a language.

[01:24:18]Extrinsic motivation, right? Um that's the first one, to be thrown into a situation. We also say to be thrown in at the deep end. Have you ever heard that? That's an idiom, quite a common idiom in English, which means where you are thrown into a situation, you have to learn quickly.

[01:24:37]Literally being thrown into the deep end of a swimming pool, and then you have to quickly learn to swim.

[01:24:43]Uh but we use the idiom to talk about any kind of learning experience where you have to suddenly quick quickly learn. And that is a way that people learn English, isn't it? They are thrown into a situation where suddenly they have to adapt and learn.

[01:24:56]Um That's the first one. Second one here in my little taste, my taster.

[01:25:02]What expression means something is accepted or received positively by people? For example, you do something in front of a group of a group of people, and they all like it, they they accept it well. Or maybe a new law is passed um in Paris, and um it's not accepted very well by people.

[01:25:25]For example, cycling on the pavement, um Kate said that people cycle on the pavement in Taiwan, and I said, "Ooh, that wouldn't mm mm mm in Paris."

[01:25:36]Or maybe telling a joke in front of a certain audience, if the joke if people like the the joke, you can say, um "That joke mm mm mm with that audience." So, it's to go down well. Um cycling on the pavement, that wouldn't go down well in Paris. Or that joke went down well with the audience.

[01:25:57]Or the presentation went down really well with the investors. Your presentation went down really well.

[01:26:04]Um it means it was really well received, and everybody liked it. That's a phrasal verb, to go down well with someone.

[01:26:11]That's the second one. Here's the third one. What do you call the temporary metal structure around a building which is under construction. So, there's Let's say there's a building and it's either under construction or there's work being done on it. Maybe they're cleaning the front of the building or something like that. And this metal temporary metal structure is erected on the front of the building so that they can do work on it. And there's people working there, going up and down there. They've got a rope with a bucket and they're They're lifting things up and down. What do you call this metal stuff made of metal pipes attached to the front of a building when there's work being done?

[01:26:51]Kate mentioned it when she talked about her earthquake experience. She went out onto the roof of the building and looked at the building opposite which was covered in something. It's covered in scaffolding.

[01:27:03]Scaffolding, that's it.

[01:27:06]She was concerned that the if the building fell over that it would cause, you know, huge amounts of damage. So, that was the third one. Here comes the fourth one. And yes, I'm in different clothes randomly just for a moment.

[01:27:18]So, the fourth one is What phrase means to slowly change something? Slowly stop using something and bring in a new system. Hmm. Kate was talking about uh s- uh street lights at pedestrian crossings and she was talking about the fact that in Taiwan the green man which shows you it's okay to walk across the crossing the green man actually is animated and it it moves its legs. And then when you've only got something like 10 seconds le- left, the legs suddenly start walking really quickly.

[01:27:54]But they're going to stop doing that.

[01:27:56]And they're going to change that system and introduce a new system, but they're going to change it slowly.

[01:28:02]They're not going to change it in one go. They're going to gradually change gradually stop using one system and start using another system. So, what are they going to do to the old system?

[01:28:11]They're going to hm, hm, hm. They're going to it hm.

[01:28:16]They're going to phase it out.

[01:28:18]Yes, they're going to phase it out.

[01:28:20]They're going to gradually stop using uh one system and replace it with another system to phase it out.

[01:28:27]So, there you go. Four different bits of English that you could learn from this.

[01:28:32]Check out LEP Premium for the rest. Over 40 questions like that in rounds and then a fully detailed vocab list with definitions, example sentences, and other important information to help you learn and then discussion questions to help you practice using all of that stuff. It's a fun and engaging way to highlight vocabulary that you can learn from conversations on my podcast and I do that a lot. A lot of premium episodes are vocab reviews. I did one for the Room 101 conversation with Charlie Baxter. Uh there's one for the food episode uh with Martin.

[01:29:09]Um So, check it out. LEP Premium teacherluc.co.uk/premium.

[01:29:15]Um so, Kate uh says that she's going to visit Paris again in the summer, right?

[01:29:21]She often comes back to France and visits Paris and and sees everyone in the summer. So, maybe that'll be the next time that she'll she'll be on the podcast. Um I can actually get her in the room and we can do this properly in the same room.

[01:29:36]Which is I find much, much better, especially Well, with episodes with anyone, I find it much better when I'm doing it in the same room.

[01:29:45]But, certainly episodes that involve a lot of spontaneity and involve a lot of um moments of I don't say I don't mean improvisation, but moments of spontaneity. Like Amber and Paul episodes, it's so important that we're in the same room because we can react instantly to each other. And it's the same with Kate. That's kind of like the perhaps one of the best things about episodes with Kate is that we react very quickly to each other and that means we can quite easily go off on different tangents and things and that's maybe the most attractive one of the most attractive things about episodes with Kate. Doing this online via an online call like this is definitely not the same. It's still good. It's it's slightly different. It's not quite the same.

[01:30:30]I feel there's a very slight delay. I don't know if that's because she's so far away or if it's just cuz it's on the internet. And you know what Zoom calls, video calls are like. It's hard to talk over each other. You kind of talk, you don't know when the other person's finished. It's difficult to get the flow going.

[01:30:49]Um which means that we can't be quite as reactive to each other's comments and generally the rapport the kind of um in- interaction is a bit different. It's still good, but it's harder to be reactive. Um so anyway, hopefully in the summer she'll be back and I can actually record an episode with her in the room and that would be good. Um if you are in Taipei, why not go down to one of Kate's comedy shows. You could say hello, you could just watch the show and be entertained.

[01:31:26]Uh or if you want to try your hand at stand-up, you could get in touch with her, too. So, Funny Women Taipei, the best way to find out about that is to just go on Instagram @funnywomentaipei and also Kate's Instagram is top of the Billington top_of_the_billington um on Instagram as well. I think there's a there's a uh Facebook page as well for Funny Women Taipei where you can find out details of the shows.

[01:31:58]I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, "Hey, Luke, what about your stand-up comedy?

[01:32:03]Um, what about your stand-up? Can I come and see you do stand-up? What have you been doing gigs? You know what? I actually haven't been doing very much stand-up since that show that I did is it 2 years ago now? It's nearly 2 years ago, the show I did with Charles Pellegrin, which was called same difference.

[01:32:24]Um Now, I haven't really done a lot of stand-up since then, mainly because just life is very full and it's very hard to get out in the evenings. Uh, you know, I've got two kids. One of them is still very small and that's that's a lot to deal with and I don't necessarily want to just disappear in the evenings doing stand-up. You To do stand-up properly, you have to do it twice a week, once a week, twice a week.

[01:32:53]The more you do it, the better because it's kind of like physical fitness. It's a bit like language learning. You know, if you just do it once every couple of weeks, it's hard to get the momentum going.

[01:33:03]You know, it's a bit like physical fitness. You've got to go to the gym several times a week really to maintain that level of fitness, right? It's the same with stand-up. You've got to be on stage doing it regularly just to get that comedy muscle working on a regular basis and I can't necessarily just disappear twice a week, leave my wife with the kids and life is full and busy and so that's one of the reasons. The second thing is that my mind also is quite full.

[01:33:33]Um and so I don't necessarily have the spare mental space for thinking about comedy and writing material, writing new material all the time and thinking about comedy. Most of my inspiration, to be honest, goes into my podcast episodes. That's where most of my creative it um work goes at this point.

[01:33:56]Doing the podcast is so much more convenient. I can just do this here in my room during the day and you know, it just fits into my life so much more easily.

[01:34:07]So, I'm I'm kind of on a break from doing stand-up at the moment, which I'm not very happy about, honestly, because I always feel the urge to be on stage in front of an audience.

[01:34:19]That is the that's the condition of the stand-up comedian. You just feel this kind of you feel compelled to go in front of an audience and try and make them laugh. I don't know what what's going on there with the psychology of that.

[01:34:33]What is the What is that all about? Why is it that comedians feel this urge to go up on stage and make audiences of people laugh? We We feed on that laughter.

[01:34:44]Uh so, I always have that feeling, but um I just don't want to go up and just do the same old material that I wrote years ago.

[01:34:52]You know, I have to write some new stuff, and I can't do that at the moment. Um don't have the mental space, don't have the space in my diary. So, it's on hold. I'm kind of on a little break from stand-up. But, I will go back to it.

[01:35:06]Um I think that at some point the the time will open up in my schedule again, and I'll be able to go back to it and devote a bit more time to it.

[01:35:18]Uh I was reading through some old diaries recently, um and I noticed that there was a period a while ago where stand-up was perhaps more important to me and was something I thought about more than doing this podcast. There was a period where it was like English teaching, stand-up comedy, doing the podcast, and they all kind of competed with each other to see which one would win.

[01:35:43]And um I've always been teaching English, but these days I've really cut down my class time to the point where I'm only teaching one class twice a week at the moment. So, I'm only only in the classroom a few hours each week. Um I'm hardly doing stand-up at all. And I do a lot of podcasting. So, it seems that podcasting won.

[01:36:07]Which kind of makes sense because it's sort of like a combination of English teaching and some aspects of stand-up comedy. I kind of combine it all into one.

[01:36:16]Um anyway, how did I end up talking about that? But basically, yeah, so um there was a time when I used to really think about stand-up and do stand-up all the time. It was all my thinking was relating to writing down comedy ideas and developing material and stuff. But uh these days it's a lot more focused on on the podcast.

[01:36:34]Um And you know, it makes sense really.

[01:36:36]I've got a much larger larger audience through the podcast than I would do if I was just on on stage in in Paris.

[01:36:44]Um although having said that, you know, think of Paul. There was a time when Paul and I were at the same level in terms of stand-up. We were doing a show together.

[01:36:53]It was called Sorry, We're English. And I did 30 minutes, he did 30 minutes. And when we were doing that every week, um a kind of double comedy show in the same place, you know, Luke Thompson Paul Taylor Sorry, We're English.

[01:37:08]And it was when we were doing that that Paul Paul's career Paul's stand-up career suddenly took off.

[01:37:15]And he kind of went viral with this video that he made based on one of his comedy routines. And then wow, pow, stratos- stratospheric success.

[01:37:25]Certainly in the French-speaking world.

[01:37:27]Um so, I say that I get more audience through my podcast. But you know, there's always potential in stand-up to to reach a big audience.

[01:37:36]Anyway, anyway, I'm rambling, aren't I?

[01:37:38]I am rambling. I do have a kind of dream to do my own one-man show at some point.

[01:37:45]It would be nice, wouldn't it, to have a weekly hour where I do my own I have my own stage time for an hour every week.

[01:37:54]That would be great. I'd love to do that. Um Yes. Uh premium subscribers, hello again. There is Did you know that there is a nearly 30-minute video of me doing stand-up at The Comedy Store in London.

[01:38:06]It's available as part of the premium subscription. It's P26, a video of me on stage at The Comedy Store doing about 28 minutes of stand-up, so you can check it out. It's a bit old now, but you know, if you're curious, you could check that out, but you need to be a premium subscriber and check out P26.

[01:38:24]Um listeners, leave your comments in the comments section. I would love to get your responses to any of the topics that you heard Kate and I talking about in this episode. Um and if you want to prove that you're not a skeleton with headphones on that that I If you want to prove that you're still a fully conscious human listening all the way through to the end, then why not use a certain word to show uh that you are still alive. And you Maybe you could use the word cat.

[01:38:53]Because cats came up several times during this conversation. There's the cat uh town, the cat town that Kate talked about.

[01:39:03]Um and also the cat spoon that she used in her mug. And then there was the cat cafe as well that was mentioned. So, cats came up quite a few times in this. So, use the word cat in your comment. Or even just a little cat emoji would be enough somewhere in your comments. You don't have to talk about cats. You could talk about whatever you want, but just include a cat emoji or some reference to a cat. That would be good. That would prove that you've listened all the way through until the end. Leave any comment you want, including questions which I can ask Kate next time.

[01:39:35]That would be good. I often troll the comments.

[01:39:38]I'm going to sneeze.

[01:39:42]Excuse me for sneezing on the podcast. Anyway, leave any comment you want including questions which I can ask Kate next time. That would be good. Leave your questions for Kate. I often troll the comments of previous episodes when preparing conversations with returning guests. I check their previous episodes and check the comments for any questions. So, please consider uh the comments to be a good place to interact and ask questions or comments that I might read out or ask Kate uh next time she comes on the podcast.

[01:40:14]Thank you for watching if you are watching the video version. Uh thank you for listening to this podcast. Please tell your friends about Luke's English podcast. Like, subscribe, become a premium LEPster to support the podcast and generally have a lovely morning, afternoon, evening, or night and I will speak to you next time on this podcast uh which will be sooner rather than later if you're potentially sooner rather than later if you're a premium subscriber cuz you get all those other episodes as well.

[01:40:43]All right, speak to you soon. But for now, bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.