Why Psychological Manipulation Is Everywhere Today | Dr. Kevin Zadai Interviews Chase Hughes

[00:00:06]How do you bottom line get to the truth?

[00:00:13]Clarity is your weapon of choice. Fear and confusion is a product of division.

[00:00:18]They want us fighting sideways instead of up.

[00:00:29]Hello everyone. Dr. Kevin Zetai with you and we are uh getting ready to go in and interview Chase Hughes. I know you've all been waiting for him. He worked uh in training for CIA and black ops and uh he was in the Navy and he is an amazing person. He has a school um NCI and uh so we're going to go to him and I just wanted to get you ready for it um here um at Grayson County Airport and this uh airplane we're in right now is an A4 and I'll be training in this in the future.

[00:01:01]So I just wanted to come to you and say listen um Chase talks about a bunch of things in this session. Just want to go over a couple things with you. He talks first about manipulation, narcissistic control, and the power of clarity. So those are the three things that we cover in this interview. So he's talking there about understanding behavior because that's exactly what he studied and that's what he trained people in in the in the military and in his school. So he talks about um people that can be uh moved against their own interest and he talks about how you can do that. He talks about how you can um use fear and you can use it as a tool. He says a lot of people are limited by fear but you can use that as a tool. So you talk about we talk about obligation and guilt. He talks about um people's own interest and the fact that people are naturally selfish. So he also talks about being clear and um being having clarity actually helps you when you're being manipulated. if you have a clear uh insight in what's going on. So I know all of us we don't like to be manipulated and so he is available in this conversation. He talks about that too as well. Also a couple other things that he goes through is knowing exactly like where conversation is going. So there's a there's a pattern there's some patterns that that seem to repeat and cycles and we talk about this in the spirit schools as well. So he gets into that. And so anyway, we'll go right to Chase now. Uh I know you're going to enjoy this. God bless you. See you soon.

[00:02:38]Bye-bye.

[00:02:39]>> Hello everyone. This is Dr. Kevin Zedai with Warrior Notes and Warrior School Ministry. And boy, do I have a surprise for you. I have someone here who I have been watching and reading his uh his material. His name is Chase Hughes. Uh he's the number one leading authority on behavior profiling and nonverbal human communication, influence and persuasion.

[00:03:01]Um he is the founder of NCI. So he's got a university. Uh I have his behavior ops manual. It is amazing. I haven't read it all yet. Uh Chase, welcome. Thank you so much.

[00:03:16]>> Thanks for joining us.

[00:03:17]>> Yes.

[00:03:19]>> So good to be here. So, just tell me a little bit uh if you could just give uh everyone just a little bit of background um and how you uh got started in this. I know you were in the military and uh I know that when you speak people listen to you. So, uh just tell us a little bit about yourself. I'm really really interested.

[00:03:41]>> Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on. I uh did 20 years in the military. I retired as a chief out of the the US Navy and I got into this like when I was 19. I got obsessed with human behavior and it it just developed and blossomed into something that uh made me obsessed with how can we make interrogations better? How can we make uh intelligence recruiting better? So like a an intelligence guy is going to go overseas and talk to somebody and ask him to basically spy on their country. And so asking somebody to commit treason, I would argue, is probably harder than selling real estate or or cars. Uh so there's all these sales training people out there who say, "Oh, I've got a resistant client." Um but I mean, talking someone into doing something where they might face the death penalty, I would say is harder.

[00:04:37]So, I got obsessed with how people are made to do something or persuaded to do something that is not in their best interest. And that that's really what captured a lot of my focus. And I spent time with cult recruiters. I spent time with a lot of people who do this kind of stuff for a living. interrogators, cult recruiters, people who talk young women into doing uh adult movies is what they I think is the new common phrase for it now. Um, so every every niche you could possibly think of and I I wanted to really learn this and I wanted to really get to a point where I was masterful at understanding the skill. So not from a historical perspective. So I'm not a historian. I never cared about the names, the dates. It was always what was the method, the tactic, technique being applied here, how did it work? Uh and then I uh published my first book in uh 2018ish and uh it hit the bestseller list and probably for the first 90 days I thought it was just my mom like buying all the all the books on Amazon. Uh but after that you know that kind of wore off and uh somehow uh the stuff that I teach and stuff I do really resonates with people and since then I've uh been on some big national stages and um been on Dr. Phil maybe 50 episodes of doc with Dr. Phil and uh it's been fun but I really specialize in how people are controlled and how people are manipulated and more and more uh just learning what I'm seeing is learning scops nowadays is is not some niche anymore if you learn how scaps work it it it feels more like basic literacy on how the world is working today uh because it used to be one operation years thing couple years later, but now it's like in your face every day all the time. Uh so learning any of this stuff just feels like teaching people literacy for me.

[00:06:49]>> That's really good. Um you uh have a lot of books out. I've uh I really have the one on tongue the tongue right now. Um, I'm going to be going through that, but I really felt that you recommend that if somebody gets that that they read it through in one reading. So, um, is that is that the case that uh, yeah, one one to five? Yeah. And it's not uh, it doesn't feel like a book. It's not written like a book. It's written to manipulate someone out of a control structure. Uh, so the closer you can get to one sitting, the better. And it's it's short. It's the shortest thing I've ever published. Uh so I tried to keep it uh pretty concise.

[00:07:31]>> Okay. And then you also have a university. So uh tell us a little bit.

[00:07:35]I know you oper you offer a free course.

[00:07:40]Yeah, we have uh a lowercase U uh university uh where we have like online training systems and courses where people can go through drills and learn all of this stuff uh that learn to use it in sales or parenting, leadership, whatever. Uh and we have uh a lot of major CEOs that come through our our higher level courses that teach speaking and persuasion, leadership, communication, all that kind of stuff.

[00:08:11]And we have a great free course out there which I mean our our free courses is better than most courses you'll get anywhere else.

[00:08:19]>> Wow. Uh, and I it's the goal that I wanted to do is like, can I can I deliver the best in the world in each one of our courses? And that's our guarantee. If it's not the best course you've ever taken, you get your money back. So, we really tried to put in as much as we could with zero fluff and no big storytelling. Like you've taken a course before, I'm sure, where they have one key point that they want to make and they take six hours or five modules to get to this one key point because this guy really wants to talk and that's that pissed me off my whole life. I hated that. So I wanted to do the opposite like how can we deliver maximum uh value for people and you know we're we're living in the age of SCOPS. This seems like I mean scups have always been going on. Um but it just seems like it's e it's a it's more in your face than it's ever been before and b it's more frequent. It just seems to be just woven into everything because we have more access to metrics nowadays. I can see how long you hovered your mouse over a certain thing and when you scrolled and when you clicked. Uh so just our obsession with metrics is making SCOPS a lot better, a lot more effective and harder to spot.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah. So uh where where do you want to go first? Because I I like the ellipsus manual. U you know when you uh talk about profiling people and uh you know coming to a conclusion u a lot of cues you go through a lot of different things uh in in that area. But uh could we first talk a little bit about the narcissist and the a lot of uh people that I'm associated with have gone through uh some situations not only with uh cults and religion religious circles but also marriages uh things like that.

[00:10:19]So, could you just uh for for the next few minutes, could you go into that and just help identify what a narcissist is and some of the things uh that you you have an amazing way of of dealing with narcissists uh that that I want you to talk about.

[00:10:37]Yeah. So, if someone's in a relationship with a narcissist, it's going to be way different than if it's a work. I'm dealing with some boss or something like that and What you really want to understand is there's typically a few things that they're use that they're going to use and it's usually fear, obligation, and guilt. And those are the three things. And uh I can't remember who came up with this acronym, but it wasn't me. Um the number one thing that will defeat narcissists in conversations is clarity.

[00:11:11]Clarity is your weapon of choice. So the moment you hear anything manipulative from anybody, your first question needs to be, can we can we go through can I unpack that so I so that I understand everything that you're asking here and really unpack it to get them to verbalize exactly what's going on.

[00:11:31]Uh step two, and this is just a two-step program. Uh step two is once they unpack it, if they're able to do it, you comfortably and without any accusation, no meanness. whatsoever. Say, "It sounds like you're wanting me to feel blank about this, and I know that that's not your usual way that you way that you speak to everybody. So, I'm wondering if something's going on. Did I do something to upset you?" So, be willing to take the blame, but in a different direction than they're wanting to give it to you.

[00:12:05]>> That's really good.

[00:12:06]>> And that's what I found to be the number one way to do that. And you always criticize the context of what's going on and never the content of what they're saying. So anytime somebody comes up, they do a blame game, they're doing some kind of power play ritual, anything that's going on, you're criticizing the context of what's happening, never the content. Not I'm upset you said this.

[00:12:31]You might say this is the context. So you're going to criticize the context.

[00:12:35]It's like when a person does this, this, and this, it's usually this. and I know you better than that. So, it's always context like this is the situation here and you always want to stay with that.

[00:12:46]And if you want uh I think it would be really beneficial to just kind of go back historically. If you go back 200 years, you can pinpoint how every psychological operation has worked for 200 years with 100% accuracy. Uh and it's still the same exact way that we're using it today. So it's not like we're innovating. No one's innovating how we do SCOPS. We're just in we're innovating new tools to do it with. So a lot of people narcissists will do a lot of these things and mostly without even knowing that they're doing it. You you could strap a narcissist to a polygraph and ask if they did something wrong.

[00:13:25]They'll say no and they'll mean it.

[00:13:26]They'll really mean it. They're not fully conscious of all the things that they're doing because they've been doing it since they were like six. Uh so it so it's not a huge plan for a lot of them.

[00:13:37]Uh but historically whether you're looking at a narcissist relationship or a government manipulating people, it's about the same. Hey everyone, Captain Kevin back with you. I hope you enjoyed that uh short interview with Chase. Um this guy's amazing. He understands human behavior. A couple things that I just really wanted to point out to you in in this outro is that he he talks about a couple things in in the uh the fact that sometimes we mistake in our pressure and um we we don't have lines of responsibility. So we can need to understand that if we're being pressured, we got to understand like where our boundaries are. So, in just in in a recap, I wanted to say that there is um there's a couple of things that you need to question yourself on, and as are you being driven by guilt because this is not a good thing to be driven by guilt. And so, a lot of people uh they they do things that they regret. And so, I want you to think about this and uh we will we will be returning with Chase in other interviews, but I want you to ask this question. Do you react emotionally first or do you slow down and seek clarity? Because clarity is the most important thing in this in this uh context of what we're talking about with behavior. So you don't react out of pressure. You wait. You get a pause. I do the 90 second pause. Also, your relationship becomes clearer when you examine the pattern and not just people's words. And so you examine people's patterns. You examine your own patterns and then you get to know yourself and then you get to know other people. So, I I hope that you enjoyed this. God bless you. We'll see you on the next one. Bye-bye.

[00:15:22]What's really important instead of tracking truth online is tracking where pressure comes from. And you don't even need to track money. You don't need to track [music] time. You don't need to track who's trading what stocks. If you just know how to track pressure, then you will win in this