Car Talk #1822: How Scientists Go Bad

Added: 2026-05-24

[00:00:00]Plaza with trying to trap THE ELUSIVE SKI >> [laughter] [laughter] >> OH, YOU'RE GETTING WHACKIER EVERY WEEK, YOU KNOW.

[00:00:12]WELL, talking about wacky, do you do you have any any >> I have nothing. I have nothing. Well, then we'll go right to the phone.

[00:00:18]>> Well, I wanted to discuss a few things.

[00:00:21]I mean, I do have one letter.

[00:00:22]>> Go ahead. I mean >> This old mail is lousy. I haven't gotten >> ask just answer me. Let me ask you one question and answer this one question for not only my benefit, but but for the benefit of our I was at Of our three listeners, yeah.

[00:00:32]>> I was at your house the other day and I noticed that you had moved a vehicle that had been in in in storage at your house for a while. I noticed it had been replaced. That is in its stead was the now famous uh much maligned uh long assembled gas grill.

[00:00:49]Yes, that's right.

[00:00:50]>> So, I wanted to know had you fired it up for the season because >> Yes, I have indeed fired up the gas grill. I had my first cookout the very day that you were by there as a matter of fact. Pulled it out from under all the rubbish and stuff. Fired that baby right up. I just turned it on.

[00:01:05]>> that were on there from last fall were still They were still there. They weren't quite done yet.

[00:01:10]Well, you just turned off the gas.

[00:01:11]>> I want to say that although I did invest a tremendous amount of time and energy and I know I ranted and raved for a long time about the gas grill, it has changed my life.

[00:01:20]And all I'm only angry and upset at the fact that they didn't tell me that they were selling me a kit and that I wanted a hobby and I was going to spend a day putting the thing together.

[00:01:29]Other than that, the machine itself is quite wonderful.

[00:01:32]>> biggest improvement actually was bringing it outdoors, getting it out of the kitchen. It reduced >> smoke in the house was brutal. That fire alarm kept going off. I couldn't understand it. Well, anyway, if you'd like to talk to us, our number is 888 Car Talk. That's 1-888-227-8255.

[00:01:48]Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hi, this is Teddy from Stratford, Connecticut.

[00:01:52]Teddy, T E D D I. You got it. Where is Stratford? Stratford is at the mouth of the Housatonic River.

[00:02:00]In Connecticut? Yeah. Same Housatonic that's Where does that start? New Hampshire?

[00:02:05]I think it starts up near Canada. Does it really?

[00:02:08]>> Yeah, New Hampshire. I thought the Avon River was went through Stratford.

[00:02:13]Uh I think it's a different continent or a different country.

[00:02:16]>> Okay. So, Teddy, what's up? Well, I have an an '89 Toyota Camry.

[00:02:22]Mhm. And maybe one out of every four five times that I turn on the ignition switch >> Oh, I know. Don't tell me. it makes a wretched sound.

[00:02:32]You got it. You're trying to sing >> clearing my throat. I'm ready to make the sound now.

[00:02:37]>> [laughter] >> But um I'll tell My daughter has an '89 Camry as well, and she has the same problem. Good. I'd been jiggling the steering wheel, and that would allow the car to turn on.

[00:02:49]>> Mhm. And then that failed, and she said she jiggles the gear shift in the on the floor between the two front seats.

[00:02:56]>> does it for her. And that well does it for me, too.

[00:02:59]>> what also does it? Yes.

[00:03:01]>> Pulling on the left earlobe. No? Yeah.

[00:03:03]Oh, you try that tomorrow. You pull on the left earlobe, and it'll start. And I'll guarantee you this.

[00:03:10]>> you have to pull on your daughter's left earlobe. [laughter] Maybe it will, but here's one. Yeah.

[00:03:17]I I noticed that the it has it seemed to be sickling synchronized with the seatbelt the automatic seatbelt on the door.

[00:03:25]>> [laughter] >> So, in desperation the other day Well, you know, this is a good example.

[00:03:29]>> the driver's side door, and it and the car went on.

[00:03:32]>> See, if somebody were teaching correlation coefficients right now, this would be a wonderful example.

[00:03:39]>> would be a good example of how SCIENTISTS GO BAD. [laughter] BUT I MEAN, occasionally you run across a scientist who makes it very clear that all we have here is a correlation. We don't know anything about causality, but most people don't say that. They say, "Gee, every time I pull on my left ear lobe, the thing starts up, and I guess I've got it figured out."

[00:04:02]Nah, it's likely to start by pulling on your left ear lobe as it is doing any of these other things.

[00:04:08]I'm going to just guess you have an automatic transmission. Yes, I do.

[00:04:11]>> Does your daughter also? Yes. Uh-huh.

[00:04:15]A good guess, eh? Uh-huh.

[00:04:17]You need You ready You sitting down, Teddy?

[00:04:19]>> 10% chance that it's >> hang up now?

[00:04:23]>> No.

[00:04:24]There's a There's a 10% chance that it's the starter, which would cost you $100.

[00:04:27]>> has been replaced.

[00:04:28]>> There's a Then it's no chance of that.

[00:04:30]There's a 0.7% chance Uh-huh. that it's the starter.

[00:04:35]And there's a 99.3% chance that it's the flywheel. That's what my husband said.

[00:04:42]>> And your husband's a astute guy. You should always listen to your husband.

[00:04:46]Husbands are almost always right.

[00:04:48]>> [laughter] >> Here's what I would do. Yes. I would drive it until it no longer starts.

[00:04:54]Yeah, I mean, it'll happen pretty soon three out of four times, and then four out of four times. And if you can live with that kind of uncertainty in your life, Yeah, I mean, >> knowledge that one of these times you're going to be someplace where you don't want to be late at night, Right.

[00:05:10]>> a car that doesn't start. If you can accept all of those consequences, >> you've got a long way to go. The wonderful thing about this malady is it it really does progress in a nice, predictable fashion. Uh-huh.

[00:05:22]I mean, it doesn't go from one time out of five to five times out of five overnight. It usually takes a couple of nights.

[00:05:32]Yeah, I mean, I would sort of keep track, and as it starts to get more and more frequent, you will have less and less time to get it fixed. Yeah, I do a fair amount of long-distance driving to Vermont, so I'm you know, I really don't want it to happen again.

[00:05:44]>> need to fix it tomorrow. Put a new flywheel in, and you will you will be you will be on cloud nine. Well, my real question would be then about what price range is this going to be?

[00:05:53]>> Oof. This is a four-cylinder Camry, I take it.

[00:05:56]>> Yes. Yeah, it's several hundred dollars.

[00:05:58]>> Uh-huh. Yeah, man, that's several flight >> More more than several. Yeah. Yeah, three >> So it's several severals. Yeah.

[00:06:04][laughter] Two or three severals. I don't know. It's more like two severals.

[00:06:09]Thanks a million for calling. Thank you.

[00:06:11]God bless. Bye-bye.

[00:06:12]>> Bye-bye. 1-888-Car Talk. That's 1-888-227-8255.

[00:06:19]Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hi. My name is Steve and I'm in uh Maryland. Hi, Steve. How are you? Just Maryland, huh?

[00:06:26]Well, Hagerstown, Maryland.

[00:06:27]>> Hagerstown.

[00:06:28]>> It's almost West Virginia.

[00:06:29]Is that where they make the slacks?

[00:06:31]Yeah.

[00:06:32]>> [laughter] >> I don't know.

[00:06:34]>> No.

[00:06:35]I don't know. I don't think so, but anyway, I've got a '91 Dodge Caravan.

[00:06:39]Uh-huh. And it's got about 107,000 mi on it.

[00:06:42]>> Wow. And it's starting to smoke.

[00:06:45]Oh. Yeah. Very bad. This is what I thought. Mhm. Um it's a strange kind of smoke though. Uh the smoke itself is a white smoke with a bluish tint, so I'm thinking oil.

[00:06:56]And but it doesn't do it all the time.

[00:06:58]It only does it uh When you're when you're not looking.

[00:07:01]>> When I'm not looking.

[00:07:02]>> [laughter] >> It only does it when I'm parked and there's a good-looking young lady next to me or something. Anyway, um Is it is it likely more likely to do it when you first start in the morning? Does it blow a big cloud of smoke? No. Do you look?

[00:07:14]Yeah.

[00:07:14]>> don't look.

[00:07:15]>> [laughter] >> Does it do it when you're coming down a long hill and you step on the gas? Uh I don't know about that.

[00:07:21]>> then we give up. When does it do it?

[00:07:23]>> [laughter] >> It does it uh mostly when, you know, like stopped in traffic.

[00:07:28]And uh if I leave it idle at any length of time, you know, pointed downhill at all, it'll do it then really bad. I mean, it'll it'll get really bad if I do that. Really? Yeah.

[00:07:38]>> Pointed downhill. You have a 3-liter V6 engine, is that correct?

[00:07:42]>> That's correct.

[00:07:43]That's the only engine they made actually.

[00:07:45]>> [laughter] >> No, they they did make a '91 they made a 3.3 liter, they made a four cylinder, they made all kinds of different engines. So, I had a one in three chance. Uh Uh do you burn oil? Does it consume oil?

[00:07:57]Yes, but not consistently. I check it knowing that's the problem. I check it every time that I get gas. And sometimes yeah, I need to put a quart in there, maybe a quart and a half and >> After how many miles? 400 miles, maybe >> 400? Yeah, I drive about uh 160 miles a day. Well, I'm going to suggest Mhm. I'm going to suggest that you have bad valve guide seals. I like it. And that's why you're tipping the vehicle.

[00:08:20]>> you only got bad bad valve guide seals on one end of the engine even. No, I think if you face the other way that the same thing would happen.

[00:08:27]>> so? If I face the other way or the car would face the other way? Yeah, you turn around.

[00:08:31]>> Turn around.

[00:08:31]>> [laughter] >> You you mean if you were facing uphill instead of downhill? At the same angle.

[00:08:36]At the same angle. Okay. Because I think what may be happening is No, that sounds that's so stupid.

[00:08:42]>> [laughter] >> How do YOU LET ME DO STUFF LIKE THIS?

[00:08:44]YOU JUST SIT THERE >> TO BAIL YOU OUT BY SAYING one end >> hangman.

[00:08:48]I feel THE NOOSE TIGHTENING AROUND MY neck and you're not doing anything.

[00:08:51][laughter] WELL, I TRIED TO BAIL YOU OUT by saying one end of the engine you turn around and say no, NO. EITHER WAY, YOU COULD HAVE BAILED OUT bad valve guide seals at one end of the engine. That would be good, wouldn't it? Yeah, well, it's possible but not elegant.

[00:09:06]>> [laughter] >> Well, it would explain it not doing it as much on a on a level road. Well, you you could have bad valve guide seals.

[00:09:16]Uh I like the valve guide seal idea. I like it.

[00:09:19]>> you can take it to the shop and they can take the valve covers off and they can look and see if you have any valve guide seals left.

[00:09:24]>> Right.

[00:09:24]>> Okay. And it may be that you need them replaced. That they're not that difficult to replace. They have to take the camshafts out. Mhm. And it's going to cost you several hundred dollars. But it may solve the problem. And And fact, they may not be be able to tell even by looking at them. I would just go ahead and do it. Okay. Spend the money, do it.

[00:09:41]It may If it solves the problem, you'll think we're geniuses. If it doesn't, you'll have the same opinion that everyone else has of us.

[00:09:46]>> No, but it's because if it doesn't, there's nothing else to do except wait.

[00:09:49]>> Except the ring job. Yeah, which you don't want to You wouldn't do anyway, right?

[00:09:53]>> Okay. You know, now you're not losing any coolant.

[00:09:56]Uh no. You losing any hair?

[00:09:58]>> [laughter] >> Long before I bought the van.

[00:10:00]>> Are you losing any sleep?

[00:10:05]Now, I would do the valve guys the valve guide seals. With 107K, there's a very good chance that you need a complete engine rebuild. Uh-huh. But there's a better than 50/50 chance, I think, that the valve guide seals will solve the problem, at least most of it.

[00:10:19]>> And and my brother, although he thought he was getting himself into deep trouble, I think the truth is that the valve guide seals explain most of your symptoms. Whereas rings, we had a little trouble coming up with a theory that would make you burn a quart of oil this month and not last month.

[00:10:35]Uh-huh. So, Well, I'm having trouble with this, too.

[00:10:39]But it's time TO SAY GOODNIGHT.

[00:10:40]>> [laughter] >> GOODBYE, STEVE. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.

[00:10:43]Good luck, Steve. Hey, thank you very much.

[00:10:44]>> fixed. I think it's going to do it. The valve guide seals will fix your problem.

[00:10:48]Yeah. Wonderful. See you later. Thanks a lot, guys.

[00:10:51]>> Bye-bye. Bye-bye. 1-888-CAR-TALK or 1-888-227-8255.

[00:10:56]Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hi. Hi. Glad to be here. Nice to talk to you, guys.

[00:11:01]We're glad to have you. Who are you? My name's Gwen. I'm calling from Washington in D.C. Gwen. D.C. Are you a lawyer or a politician? No. Are you married to a lawyer or a politician?

[00:11:11]>> Oh lord, no. Okay, good.

[00:11:13]>> God bless you, my child.

[00:11:14]>> [laughter] >> Now, they have to have a few of us working around here, you know, so.

[00:11:21]Uh what's up? Okay, I have a great vehicle that I'm sitting in right now, talking to you, parked by the side of the road, by the way. Good. Thank you. A Ford E-150, 1988 van, Uh-huh. which runs like a top. It's great. It is my business. I am a mobile dog groomer.

[00:11:38]No kidding.

[00:11:40]Good idea.

[00:11:41]>> I My imagination's not that good to make something like up.

[00:11:44]>> [laughter] >> Um my question is, as old as this van is, 160,000 mi, um it desperately needs repainting because of the size of it and the logos and all, it's going to run me about $4,000 to do that.

[00:11:58]What type of things should I have my mechanic be looking for to see if this is a good idea or not? Wow-zee.

[00:12:07]It it runs great. I've had no major problems. Yeah, but with 160,000 DC miles on it Exactly. You know that you need stuff. And a lot of that stuff might simply be invisible to you. That's true.

[00:12:24]4,000 bucks. Yeah, well, you know, hey.

[00:12:27]What are they going to do for 4,000?

[00:12:29]You're going to get it only paint the vehicle and then you're going to do the lettering. The lettering, it's a tall van, it won't fit in any of the uh commercial chain shops. Also, it's got it's got the the high top on it so you can stand up in it. THAT'S IT. YEAH.

[00:12:45]YEAH. SO, YOU WHAT HERE'S WHAT YOU WHAT YOU do is you drive around, people call you up and they say, "Gwen, I I need my dog shampooed and vacuumed."

[00:12:52]>> That's it. So, you show up and they bring their schnauzer out.

[00:12:55]>> That's it. Very good. Yeah, we do. Do you have a a siren and a flashing light in case it's an emergency?

[00:13:01]>> No. No. No. No. No >> get one. Most of them they're just, you know, happy to get done. As many of the dogs run out to greet me and just as many crawl under the bed. How many growl and snarl and try to bite your leg off?

[00:13:13][laughter] And what And what do you do? I've often wondered because I I would like to be a dog groomer.

[00:13:18]And I've often wondered what you do when you encounter dogs that don't particularly like to be washed or groomed. You don't. You just You just say no. I I've only had one in 11 years that I walked in and the lady could not pick up the dog. She couldn't put a leash on him. She couldn't Oh. She couldn't touch the dog and I just said, "Honey, I was born at night, but not last night. I'm not going to see [laughter] that dog." So, he was somewhat unruly little creature.

[00:13:42]>> Just uh yes.

[00:13:44]>> Yeah. Was it a little dog? It was a Cocker Spaniel.

[00:13:47]>> Oh, they can be a pain in the butt.

[00:13:48]>> They can be. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

[00:13:50]Well, since now we've got it established that you're successful in your business, Yes. God be praised.

[00:13:55]>> [laughter] >> And it would be a considerable expense to get rid of this van and buy another one because you'd have to have that high top put on it and all that.

[00:14:03]>> Yeah. Oh, Rick, it's ready to go.

[00:14:05]>> It was not a cheap thing to put together.

[00:14:06]>> You've got to fix this van no matter what's wrong with it. It's unlikely that the undercarriage is rusted because they don't use much salt on the roads, if any, in DC. That's true. So, no matter I think no matter what, you've got to keep this for another 10 years. So, I'd have the mechanic go through it and find everything that's wrong with it. And you're going to be prepared to spend perhaps thousands of dollars.

[00:14:27]>> Oh, no. But why not? I mean, just add it to the paint job. Well, that's true.

[00:14:31]Sure.

[00:14:31]>> Because replacing it's going to cost you 30 grand.

[00:14:34]>> Yeah, exactly. That is what we're talking about.

[00:14:36]>> Yeah. So, my brother is right. You mean, you've got to keep it forever and who says you can't? Okay. I I don't know.

[00:14:41]>> you planning to retire? Oh, well, I'm not.

[00:14:44]>> She's not. I'm not thinking that far ahead right now.

[00:14:46]>> No. I can be a little old lady dog groomer running around. Yeah. I mean, the only thing that you really can't fix is really, really progressed rust. Okay.

[00:14:57]And you probably don't have that, as my brother says. Not really.

[00:15:01]>> And the rest of it, everything one piece at a time you can replace with the entire van. Okay. And you've got to do it. Okay. I'm glad to have somebody official tell me that. And don't do everything at once. Do it as it comes about. All right. That sounds like a reasonable plan.

[00:15:15]>> And you're only driving little short distances now with this thing, right? I mean, you're not driving You're driving miles and miles a day still? No, not a lot. 40 or 50 miles a day on it. No, it's good good for another 10 years and then you'll retire.

[00:15:27]Or you'll have so much money Now, you're arranging >> that the dogs will come to you. You whistle and they'll come. Oh, [laughter] I'm sorry.

[00:15:33]>> And we'll arrange and we'll arrange financing when the time comes.

[00:15:35]>> Oh, good. Good. They'll they'll be glad to hear that. See you, Gwen. Thanks so much for your help.

[00:15:41]>> Good luck. Bye-bye.

[00:15:42]>> Bye-bye. That's interesting, but she she she created her own business. You don't have to go looking for a job. Stay away from those big companies. They're nothing but sleazeballs anyway. Make your own business. Make it. Make Go for it.

[00:15:55]>> Go for it. Exactly right.

[00:15:56]>> [laughter] >> Okay, Tommy. Do you remember last week's puzzler?

[00:16:00]My mind is a complete blank.

[00:16:02]>> Well, I know that, but do you remember anything about last week's puzzler?

[00:16:05]>> No, no. Remind me. Well, it was about you and me and Dougie taking on an onerous task. Must have involved work.

[00:16:12]>> It did. Oh. PAINTING CAR TALK PLAZA.

[00:16:17]AND WE'LL BE BACK WITH THE SURPRISE SAY IT. This is NPR.

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[00:17:20]Hey parents, it's Mindy from NPR's Wow in the World.

[00:17:23]>> And I'm Lee from the Story Pirates podcast from Gimlet Media.

[00:17:26]>> And this week we're putting our family podcasts together for [music] our very first ever Wow in the World meets the Story Pirates mashup.

[00:17:35]>> We'll be exploring a mashup [music] of the senses known as synesthesia.

[00:17:39]>> Check it out with your kids. Find us on Apple Podcasts or [music] wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:17:49]Hi, we're back. You're listening to Car Talk with us, Click and Clack, the Tappet brothers. And we're here to talk about cars, car repair, and the the answer to last week's puzzler. And I don't know, I think I mentioned this is a a mathematical puzzler.

[00:18:01]>> It comes immediately apparent when you describe it.

[00:18:04]Well, sometimes Yeah. I lie.

[00:18:07]>> [laughter] >> Anyway, here it is.

[00:18:10]Tommy and and Dougie and I are sitting around the office one day at Car Talk Plaza and noticing how dingy the place has gotten to looking. I mean, we've been there 15 years and the place had never been painted. So, we decided that we were going to paint it.

[00:18:23]So, to get ourselves organized, we sit down and we do a little figuring. Yeah.

[00:18:27]And we determined the following. Are you ready? Mhm.

[00:18:30]We determined that Tommy and I together could paint the entire Car Talk Plaza in 10 days.

[00:18:37]Two rooms.

[00:18:39]You know, we had we had a lot of painting experience as kids.

[00:18:41]>> You got to move stuff around. You don't You don't just paint, you know. Oh, no.

[00:18:44]I I just paint. I don't move.

[00:18:46]Anyway, we had a lot of experience painting as kids. That's why we knew we could do it in 10 days cuz we painted dad's car a few times. With rollers.

[00:18:54]And so, we knew we could bang it off quickly. Dougie and I could do it in 15 days. Mhm. And if Tom and Doug work together, they could do it in 30 days. And and so, the question is, how long would it take each of us working alone to paint the whole joint?

[00:19:10]So, let's let's let T represent the amount of the place that Tommy can paint in a day. Mhm. And therefore, R represents the amount I could paint in a day. And how about D? The amount that Dougie could paint in a day.

[00:19:22]>> Good. So, we come up with the following little equation: T + R = 1 over 10.

[00:19:29]And we'll change that to 3 over 30, and you'll find why in a second.

[00:19:33]And then What Where'd you get T + R = 1 over 10? That's the amount of you work that you could do in one day, the amount of work that I could do in one day equals 1/10 cuz we could together do it in 10 days. Got it.

[00:19:44]By the same token, D + R, Dougie and I working together, could do it in 15 days. 1 over 15.

[00:19:51]>> So, D + R = 1 over 15. Now, if you take those two equations and you add them together, you'll never figure it out.

[00:19:58]>> [laughter] >> But if you take the second equation, the D + R, and change all the signs, so it's minus D, minus R, equals minus 1/15.

[00:20:09]And you add them together. Mhm.

[00:20:11]The R's fall out, and you get T minus D equals 1 over 30. But here's what's interesting. So, we get T minus D equals 1/30, but I said T + D equals 1/30.

[00:20:27]Oh. We have a problem here.

[00:20:29]>> Don't we? It looks like D EQUALS ZERO.

[00:20:32]>> [laughter] >> D IS A BIG ZERO.

[00:20:38]>> SO, Doug contributes nothing. And >> [laughter] >> He's He's slow everybody down. And if D + R = 1/15, then R must be able to do it by himself in 15 days.

[00:20:50]And if if Tommy and Dougie together can do it in 30 days, then Tommy can do it alone in 30 days because again, Dougie is contributing zip.

[00:21:00]>> [laughter] >> So, who's our winner? The winner is John Boyer from Manhattan, Kansas. And for having his answer selected at random from all the correct answers that we got, John is going to get a $25 gift certificate to the Shameless Commerce Division at cartalk.com. With this $25 gift certificate, he can get a copy of our CD, Why You Should Never Listen to Your Father When It Comes to Cars, which is a great gift for Dad on Father's Day. Just like it was last year or the year before.

[00:21:31]>> [laughter] >> In case Well, it comes in handy in case you you forgot or your father forgot, get him another one.

[00:21:37]>> forget, this is the right time to order it because you might get it by next Father's Day. [laughter] Well, anyway, we'll have a brand new puzzler coming up in the third half of the show today. So, don't go away. In the meantime, if you have a question about your car, give us a call. The number is 888 Car Talk. That's 888-227-8255.

[00:22:00]Hello, you're on Car Talk. This is Wendy from Cleveland. Hi, Wendy.

[00:22:03]>> Hi, Wendy. Here's the skinny, okay?

[00:22:05]Yeah. I'm a recovering flower child. Oh, really? God. Yeah, one of those. And I had a Volkswagen Super Beetle for 13 years.

[00:22:13]>> Oh, brother. And the deal was is that I wasn't allowed to tune it up or do anything at the apartment building I lived in. So, I used to go to the municipal lot and I, you know, open the hood and I put in the wires and a couple of four wires and four plugs and the rotor and the distributor cap and it would do fine. Yeah. And all these wonderful men would stop by and say, "Ma'am, can I help you? Are you having trouble?" Yeah. Wouldn't they? Guys always like to do that. I know. Well, now I have It's almost as good as having a puppy, isn't it? It's better.

[00:22:41]>> [laughter] >> Plus, they're handy. I mean, if, you know, meet a guy with a puppy, you don't know if they can do anything.

[00:22:45]>> Did any of these guys have a pork chop hanging around in there?

[00:22:48]>> [laughter] >> No.

[00:22:50]Anyhow, since then, I've had Toyotas.

[00:22:52]And not only are they totally right reliable and I love them, but there's nothing I know how to fix other than the washer fluid.

[00:22:59]>> Yeah. So, I'm stuck. I have a problem. I haven't had a date since I got rid of my Volkswagen.

[00:23:04]>> [laughter] >> Well, you're going to have to get a puppy. Or you want a car that you can work on. Yeah, and that was good, too.

[00:23:10]It was good for your nerves as well as meeting people. Yeah. Well, I mean, don't forget. I mean, there still are Super Beetles available. You might You could go back >> problem with having a Super Beetle is you wouldn't find any guys that know anything about them and could help you.

[00:23:23]At least Or if you did, they'd have no teeth.

[00:23:25]>> RIGHT, EXACTLY. [laughter] EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

[00:23:27]WE WE HELP YOU get your Beetle I GOT TO CAN I HELP YOU, SWEETIE?

[00:23:32]>> [laughter] >> OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE DRIVING THEM IN CLEVELAND, if it's a Super Beetle in Cleveland, you'll be in water up to your ankles when you go through puddles, you know.

[00:23:39]>> Yeah, and besides, you don't want to go back. And anything that Abraham Lincoln said, "I may walk slow, but I don't walk back." That's right. You want a car that will break down. That's unusual.

[00:23:50]>> Or that I can tune up. Or at least you can do something to it. What's What's What's your current car? A Toyota 4Runner. Well, I mean, there are lots of things that you can't do, but there are still things you could do. Okay. Sure, I mean, you can change the spark plugs just as readily in this as you could in your Beetle. Yeah. You don't have to. I mean, the spark plugs are probably good for 50, 60,000 mi, but what do you care?

[00:24:13]You just take them out, spit on them, and put them back in again. I can do that.

[00:24:16]>> You could do that. You could certainly change the oil. In fact, it seems No, that's get you dirty. And people can't see you underneath the thing. Well, that's that's That's >> And leaning over the hood of that 4Runner, you'll be pretty visible.

[00:24:28]>> [laughter] >> I need a stool to do that, you know. I still carry around a little ladder.

[00:24:33]Well, you Well, you need a cardboard cutout of yourself to stand up next to the truck. [laughter] So, WHEN YOU'RE UNDERNEATH IT, PEOPLE WILL KNOW that that's when you have to put your Wendy, you know. Yeah, I like that idea. Cardboard full-size cardboard cutout. I can do that. All right. And you need music playing. What kind of What kind of music do you like?

[00:24:50]>> Oh, anything. Anything?

[00:24:52]>> I can If I'm in the university area, I could play classical.

[00:24:56]>> Sure. You could. do want to attract a classical music kind of guy? Well, it depends on what else they do.

[00:25:01]>> you don't care, huh? Just any guy at this point.

[00:25:03]>> say it's obvious that you have the marketing orientation here. You realize that you must you must tailor the product to fit the target market. That's very good. Because if you're going to be near the colleges, you assume that they like classical music, which may or may not be true.

[00:25:19]And I mean, if you were in fact a flower child, you may be a little too old for college students. That's true. Well, you going to have to college professors. Ah.

[00:25:29]>> [laughter] >> Now you're talking.

[00:25:32]Or the physical plant >> [laughter] >> employees.

[00:25:35]Buildings and grounds department. Yeah.

[00:25:37]Depends on what you like. I mean, do you like the get their hands dirty kind of guy? Or do you like the college professor type?

[00:25:43]>> Well, basically the renaissance man that can do both. If he, you know, washes his hands and then comes in and makes a gourmet dinner would be fine. Yeah.

[00:25:50]>> Oh, cool. Yeah, I mean, I want him to do everything.

[00:25:53]>> Well, I think you're going to hang out in the university parking lots.

[00:25:56]Yeah, there's just about everything there, that's for sure. But I go for the cardboard cutouts. So if you are underneath the vehicle doing something, they'll still know that you're there.

[00:26:03]That sounds terrific.

[00:26:05]>> playing. Yeah. Yeah. That that'll work.

[00:26:07]That's a good way to start. Now, anything besides spark plugs? Just in case, you know, I hit a live wire there that really does know something.

[00:26:14]>> you're always you can always be checking hoses and belts.

[00:26:18]That's always good.

[00:26:19]>> Well, yeah, I know how to do that.

[00:26:20]>> how to do that. You're checking just checking the tension on this here belt.

[00:26:23]Yeah, I mean, keep to the simple stuff.

[00:26:25]Well, yeah, that's about all I could, you know. Can I guess, Wendy, that you don't work? No, I do. You do work?

[00:26:32]>> Sure. Well, you've obviously never learned rule one of working.

[00:26:36]You don't have to be actually doing something. You got to just look like you're doing something. Oh. Right?

[00:26:42]You're right, I never learned that.

[00:26:44]>> Yeah. So, I mean, you must be in business for yourself.

[00:26:47]>> [laughter] >> YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING. SO, I mean, you don't have to be doing much of anything. Just going to be look like you Just got to look like you're doing something. Great. Sounds good.

[00:26:56]>> good and I wish you the very best. Well, I thank you.

[00:26:59]>> Yeah, I think a few smudges of grease placed in the right areas.

[00:27:03]>> Yeah, and maybe some boxes from an auto parts store or a bag or something.

[00:27:06]>> Oh, sure. Yeah. Exactly. But a little smudge of grease on the forehead, one on the shoulder, Uh-huh. and uh a little smudge on the cheek uh it works wonders.

[00:27:17]>> cheek and your hair should be in disarray. Slight disarray.

[00:27:22]>> [laughter] >> Wendy, good luck in whatever trap you're setting and I and I I hope you find a fair-haired boy.

[00:27:29]That's a good [laughter] game plan.

[00:27:30]Thanks a lot. See you later. See you later. Bye-bye.

[00:27:34]1-888-CAR-TALK or 1-888-227-8255.

[00:27:38]Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hello, this is John from Center Hall, Pennsylvania.

[00:27:43]John. John.

[00:27:44]>> Center Hall.

[00:27:46]There's a clue in there as to where it is. Yeah, it's in the like in the middle of the state?

[00:27:50]>> That's it.

[00:27:51]That's right. I have a problem with my wife's car. Sure. It's an '88 VW Golf.

[00:27:57]Yeah.

[00:27:57]>> I don't drive it much, but about every third time I do drive it, the horn blows and she swears this never happens for her. What year Golf is it again? It's an '88. Pay attention, will you?

[00:28:08]Well, I was just I was trying to geographically locate Center Hall, Pennsylvania. It's 12 miles from Harrisburg. No, actually it's right in the center of the state. It's Actually, when Penn State plays Boston College in football, I can hear them cheering the touchdown.

[00:28:23]Really? Yep. Out your window? Yep.

[00:28:27]Okay. So, you drive your wife's car Every every once in a while.

[00:28:32]>> And as you maybe like taking a turn or something, the horn goes beep.

[00:28:35]>> Well, that's just it. It happens all different times. So, the the last time it happened, I sat in it without touching the wheel because I I figured that that might have something to do with it, put the key in, turn the key and there goes the horn. Now, it it happens it'll blow anywhere from just a quick little beep to Well, one time we were both in the car and I was driving and it went on for about 5 minutes. Oh.

[00:28:59]So, she swears there's a large butt indicator on >> [laughter] >> underneath the driver's seat. Maybe.

[00:29:08]That's good. She's quick.

[00:29:10]>> [laughter] >> So, she knows that you're not fabricating this.

[00:29:13]>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's been with the She's been I went to move the car in the driveway the other day and that's when it did it, when I put the key in. And she was watching me the whole time, knows that I didn't, you know, touch the wheel, knows that it'll happen. I can be driving, I can be turning, I can be, you know, sitting at a light. It just doesn't matter. And according to her, this never happens when she drives the car.

[00:29:33]>> Never ever happened.

[00:29:34]>> However, we know that there's never a time when the two of you are in the car together that you're not driving.

[00:29:39]Because we know that men always drive.

[00:29:41]>> Well, when we're in the car together, we're usually in my car. But if you But if you were in her car, >> Mhm. you'd be driving. Uh most Yeah, about half the time.

[00:29:49]>> but this has happened to you even when you were driving her car and she wasn't with you.

[00:29:53]>> That's right. So, you are the common denominator.

[00:29:56]>> No, no, but what I'm saying is that that there's probably very little time that they're in this Golf Mhm. when she's driving.

[00:30:03]>> behind the wheel. This may be happening to her all the time.

[00:30:06]>> And she may be blaming you or she may be trying to drive you crazy.

[00:30:08]>> The gaslight [laughter] syndrome, yes. Yeah, it might be the gaslight syndrome, exactly.

[00:30:13]Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer, I remember that [laughter] movie well.

[00:30:18]That could very well be.

[00:30:20]>> It could be. I mean, what what's probably wrong is that the horn button mechanism, which is which is what it's called, in the middle of the steering wheel, is probably uh grounding out.

[00:30:31]And that's what That's what makes the horn blow.

[00:30:33]>> Uh-huh. The current comes into that thing and then when you press it, you complete the circuit to ground and that's how the horn blows.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah, but that's a simple and that's a simplistic answer.

[00:30:42]>> Well, that's the answer.

[00:30:43]>> That is the answer. That's a simplistic answer. But the real question is why does it only happen to John?

[00:30:50]>> That's right.

[00:30:51]>> That's the real question. Boy, I mean, are you working on that aspect of it?

[00:30:54]>> I am working I'm working on it feverishly, but >> that theory of your wife's about the lard butt?

[00:30:59]>> [laughter] >> I mean, this this car does not have tilt wheel. No. Of course not. And there'd be no reason to assume that you would do anything differently except from adjusting the seat. Mhm. Because you're probably taller than your wife. Right.

[00:31:13]And adjusting the seat should have absolutely nothing to do with the wiring in the steering column. Yeah.

[00:31:20]This has happened >> Wait. almost from the beginning for me.

[00:31:23]Are you a lard butt? Uh I wait I I don't quite weigh twice what she does.

[00:31:29]But uh do you weigh more than 200 lb?

[00:31:31]Yes. You weigh more than 200 lb.

[00:31:33]>> Yes. So, the only clue we have the only clue we have and it's not getting us any place.

[00:31:39]>> [laughter] >> I mean, it would be interesting if we could come up with a a theory that says when you have 200 lb in the car >> Uh-huh. it deforms something in such a way that a certain wire, which we know exactly the position of, would just be beep.

[00:31:55]But you eventually got it You said you got it to blow when you just turned the key and didn't do anything else.

[00:31:59]>> But you were sitting in the car.

[00:32:01]>> I was sitting in the car, but I turned the key without touching any of the the steering wheel or any of the other instruments.

[00:32:06]>> And how did you get it to stop then?

[00:32:08]Uh that time it just went it just >> It stopped right away. It was a quick one. Yeah. But have there been any times where it's gone on for a long time you've managed to do something to get it to stop? Uh no, just wait. And luckily, it's one of those cars that when you turn the ignition key off, the horn stops.

[00:32:22]>> Yeah. And uh so, what you do is you just sit there and check it every once in a while until it's done. The radio doesn't go off, but the horn stops, boy.

[00:32:29]>> That's right. Well, the one good thing about it though is it is a Golf and it's the rattle in the in the interior of the car is It's to such a pitch that it's hard to hear the horn and The horn is a welcome interruption.

[00:32:40]>> [laughter] >> Boy, I wish we could give you a brilliant theory, but we have failed you Oh boy. miserably. I feel I feel embarrassed.

[00:32:49]>> Well, we need more hints. I mean, you've got to give us more information.

[00:32:52]>> told you he weighs 220 lb. What more do you want? Maybe I could get her to gain 100 and see if it does it for her.

[00:32:59]I got it. Next time she It would be interesting. Next time she drives the car along.

[00:33:04]>> Mhm.

[00:33:05]She weighs 110 lb. Get a 110 lb weight and put it on her lap.

[00:33:09]>> Or sit in her lap.

[00:33:10]>> OR SIT IN >> [laughter] >> AND SEE IF THE HORN BLOWS cuz that will be a big big clue.

[00:33:17]I'll do it.

[00:33:18]>> I mean, I suppose it's I suppose it's possible that some wire some wire is chafing against the So, the horn wire would have to be. Mhm.

[00:33:28]is somehow you are changing the the the geometry Yeah. by putting your large butt in the seat.

[00:33:37]>> [laughter] >> So, essentially it is a large butt in the seat.

[00:33:41]See, you You should always pay attention to wires cuz they know everything. Well, I mean, my my best guess would have to be that it clearly has to do with your weight and that somehow you are you you are causing the wire for the horn to short out inside the steering column. Mhm.

[00:33:58]>> Yeah. But, if someone pulls that apart, they will see probably immediately what's wrong and they'll fix it in no time. Okay.

[00:34:05]You're a good sport, John. Okay, well, thanks. Thanks for calling.

[00:34:11]Hey, Tommy, I think we should take a break and meditate on all we have to be thankful for. Yeah, you mean like our health, our families, our loyal staff the fact that we get paid for doing absolutely nothing.

[00:34:22]>> [laughter] >> No, for Bugsy, he just arrived with a BOX OF CRULLERS.

[00:34:26]WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR? WE'LL BE BACK with a brand new puzzler in just a minute. Let [music] me take you for a drive.

[00:34:33]Hey, let's go for >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> And even though Goldilocks wonders who's been messing with her radio's presets whenever she hears us say it, this is NPR.

[00:35:10]Support for Car Talk and the following message come from Pep Boys. Finding that expensive part or service can make maintaining a vehicle frustrating. Pep Boys has over a million parts in stock like batteries, filters, brake pads, and more. And the Pep Boys pros who are trained expert technicians install all the parts, too. Since 1921, Pep Boys legacy has been to provide quality parts and expert service to people everywhere for any vehicle. So, whether it's for a larger DIY project or just some car advice, the Pep Boys pros have it covered.

[00:35:48]Have you ever wondered what your baby's trying to tell you when she babbles?

[00:35:56]>> [crying] >> I'm Shankar Vedantam, host of Hidden Brain. Join us as we delve into the secret language of babies and explore what babbling can teach us about how babies learn.

[00:36:08]>> [crying] >> Ha, we're back listening to Car Talk with us, Click and Clack, the Tappet brothers. And we here to discuss cars, car repair, and the the new puzzler. I can hardly wait.

[00:36:25]Well, I for one you might have to wait a while, it's rather lengthy, but this this came from uh uh uh uh uh a guy named Bob Cofield from I don't know where.

[00:36:35]Cyberspace. May- maybe even farther away than that.

[00:36:38]He says, "I am disappointed that in all of your shows that I have listened to, you have never paid tribute to the great and venerable patron saint of automotive diagnosticians, Gus Wilson."

[00:36:49]Surely you remember that Gus was the proprietor of Gus's Model Garage whose stories appeared in Popular Science Monthly several years ago. Several Several decades ago. Yeah, well, I This is what I thought I realized until I read that the letter came to us in 1982.

[00:37:05]>> [laughter] >> Anyway, he goes on and on da da da da da. He says, "I know how desperate you are for puzzles, etc. etc. So, I thought you might be interested in a Gus Wilson classic. Don't worry about copyright infringement. He's dead."

[00:37:16]>> [laughter] >> And I will read what he sent. This is stolen right from the Gus Wilson archives.

[00:37:22]It seems that there was an intense but friendly rivalry between the volunteer fire departments of two nearby towns, Jeffersonville and East Norriton. Pride was at stake at as their rivalry climaxed each year in the firemen's competition at the county fair. That's what they do at county fairs.

[00:37:40]So closely matched were the two fire brigades in skill and experience that the preliminary hook and ladder events were virtually a tie leading up to the final showcase event of the race of fire trucks. There's going to be a race. Got it. Got it.

[00:37:53]20 laps were raced counterclockwise around the quarter-mile dirt track at the fairgrounds. Both brigades drove identical pumpers, scrupulously maintained and adjusted to peak performance. The rules required that they be set to factory configuration, fully loaded and equipped, and the crews identical in total weight to the nearest ounce.

[00:38:15]Wow. Oh, this is This is serious stuff.

[00:38:17]Wow. That's quite a rivalry, you You between Jeffersonville and the other place. East Norriton. Both drivers were skilled and experienced, wily veterans of the road.

[00:38:26]>> So, you'd imagine that they would balance out. For sure.

[00:38:29]Anyway, the Jeffersonville team had come away disappointed for 4 years in a row having lost a final event by the closest of margins each time. Kind of like the Atlanta Braves.

[00:38:39]>> [laughter] >> They appealed to Gus to provide them with some small competitive advantage.

[00:38:45]Gus took a look at the high-wheeled pumpers and the dirt track and mused while he knocked the ashes from his pipe.

[00:38:53]And the And uh Bob writes a dramatic affectation that you might consider adopting yourselves. He then stepped forward and without tools, without violating the rules, and without even opening the hood of this fire truck, he makes a quick adjustment that enables Jeffersonville to take home the trophy that year. What did he do? Give me the rules again. OH, COME ON. [laughter] THEY GOT TO BE TUNED TO factory specifications and weights of the guys I wouldn't announce.

[00:39:24]Right.

[00:39:25]Okay.

[00:39:26]>> He didn't do anything illegal cuz Gus Wilson, he's the patron saint of automotive diagnosticians. And being a saint, he wouldn't do anything illegal or immoral.

[00:39:34]>> knocks the ashes out of his pipe without any tools, without even opening the hood, he makes an adjustment.

[00:39:41]Is Is that important?

[00:39:42]>> Makes an adjustment. Yes, an adjust- I would say the adjustment is the operative word here. Yeah. He makes an adjustment, but he doesn't open the hood. Yeah. Doesn't even set foot inside the truck.

[00:39:55]Oh, man. Do you need Do you need any more hints needed? No.

[00:39:59]>> All right. Excellent. Well, it will see.

[00:40:01]>> Now, what if someone thought that he or she had an answer that was within reason?

[00:40:05]>> Well, send it to the Jeffersonville Fire Department cuz they really did win. If you think you know the answer, write it on the back of a $20 bill or a block of pecorino romano.

[00:40:15]>> [laughter] >> Important pecorino romano and it to Puzzler Tower, Car Talk Plaza, Box 3500, Harvard Square, Cambridge, our fair city.

[00:40:25]>> MA 02238. Or of course you can email your answer from cartalk.com.

[00:40:30]If you'd like to call us, the number is 1-888-CAR-TALK.

[00:40:33]That's 888-227-8255.

[00:40:37]555. 555. Hello, you're on Car Talk. Hi.

[00:40:41]Hi, who's this?

[00:40:41]>> This is Karen from Milwaukee. Hi, Karen.

[00:40:44]How are you? Oh, I'm fine. How are you all? Oh, we're just dandy.

[00:40:48]>> [laughter] >> What's up? Um I have a Renault Encore LS. Oh, you poor thing.

[00:40:54]Tell me about it.

[00:40:55]>> Yeah. It's got 110,000 mi on it.

[00:40:58]Amazing. Pardon? Uh nothing.

[00:41:02]>> [laughter] >> No, that is amazing, isn't it? 110,000 on a Renault product? Yeah, well, the engine's already been rebuilt. Ah, okay, that explains it.

[00:41:10]>> Ah, okay. So has the transaxle.

[00:41:13]>> All's right with the world.

[00:41:14]>> this isn't the same Renault Encore.

[00:41:16]Yeah, this is the same Renault.

[00:41:17]>> Sure, well, it is. It is. I mean, if you had hot had a hot transplant >> and the trunk are the same. Well, you'd still be Raymond Magliotzzi if someone if you had a heart transplant or a wooden leg? Yeah, I know, but but the heart and soul of the vehicle has been replaced. Well, would you think that you were a different person because you had a heart transplant?

[00:41:36]>> Well, anyhow, what I've been having a problem with now, it seems like I'm getting into the problem of the month with this car. Uh-huh. Um we were driving back from a meeting and we were on the interstate and the left front wheel was making this rubbing noise like a tire was rubbing.

[00:41:52]So we get off the interstate and we didn't see any problem with the wheel. I said, "We better We drove through the city to get home." And the next day it didn't really make the noise, it just made this humming noise.

[00:42:04]And it's really annoying, so I took it in. Was it a rhythmic noise that it was making?

[00:42:09]Yeah, that's it.

[00:42:11]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, okay. And it was doing It started out like that. Then it went to like a loud hum. Then it would only do it now and then. Then it finally Now it's making this like loud crunching grinding noise. Ooh, I love it.

[00:42:27]So we went from to And now we got ARE YOU ALL RIGHT?

[00:42:36]JUST CLEARING MY THROAT. I FIGURED THAT WAS A good opportunity to clear my throat.

[00:42:39]>> Yeah, oh, that's good.

[00:42:40]Okay, and has anyone looked at it or are you just sort of hoping for the best?

[00:42:44]Well, we've gotten one opinion so far.

[00:42:47]Well, I'll tell you what it is. Uh hub spindle bearing? Yeah, yeah, I like it.

[00:42:51]Yeah, that's what it is. Yep. Or a CV joint.

[00:42:54]>> No.

[00:42:55]>> No.

[00:42:55]Hey, we agreed twice.

[00:42:57]>> No, my brother's wrong then. I I Just on general principle.

[00:43:00]>> back my answer, too.

[00:43:01]>> Right. Say something stupid like new distributor needs a new distributor.

[00:43:05]Yeah, I think it's the radiator, actually.

[00:43:07]>> Yeah. No, you you need a wheel bearing.

[00:43:09]That's what that is. Yeah.

[00:43:10]Okay, is this is this something that's fairly inexpensive? Well, let's let's rank these things. I mean, what what would you say? Well, compared to what you've had done so far like the engine, the transmission, and all that stuff, yes, it's it's trivial. It's significant. Pales by comparison.

[00:43:26]>> last month?

[00:43:28]Uh alternator. Alternator. It'll be about the same range. Little bit little less. Little less, maybe, yeah. Little less.

[00:43:34]>> Okay. Uh it's just that it the the car seems to I mean, even the brakes seem to be acting kind of bizarre.

[00:43:40]The brakes are acting Yeah, the pedal's going very low, isn't it? Yes, it is.

[00:43:43]That was the puzzler I was going to use, but There goes that idea.

[00:43:46]>> [laughter] >> There goes that. Oh, well.

[00:43:48]>> The pedal is going low because the bearing is so bad that it is causing the disc to wobble. And as that disc wobbles, it's pushing the brake pads in so that when you step on the pad, you've got to move the brake pad a tremendous distance, and that's why your pedal sinks way down on the floor.

[00:44:04]That would have been a great puzzle.

[00:44:05]>> It would have been. If Karen You ruined it, Karen. You ruined it for us. See, I'm sorry. That's all right. We'll live.

[00:44:11]Now, what was this meeting you were coming back from?

[00:44:13]>> It's like an a Moose Club or something.

[00:44:15]Yeah.

[00:44:15]>> Double A, triple A, or one of those meetings? No, no, it was a religious meeting. Religious? My brother has a religious sect.

[00:44:22]Did you know that? No. Elron Tappit, he calls himself. [laughter] Oh, before He runs the Church of Automovetology.

[00:44:31]Ah. And he's got lots of people coming every Sunday. He is bringing. Bringing.

[00:44:36]>> [laughter] >> But seriously, Karen, if we may for a moment, this is dangerous, this condition that you have. Mhm. Because if if you continue to drive >> That left front wheel is going to fall off.

[00:44:48]>> Yeah. Oh. Yeah, soon. I mean, within minutes. Yeah, I mean, if it's if it's already gone through the entire spectrum of noises that you described, it is imminently going to fall off. Oh. So limp down to the dealer or whoever wants to do this.

[00:45:04]>> [laughter] >> Well, there there must There might be a dealer or what?

[00:45:07]>> are. There are Renault dealers in every corner of Milwaukee.

[00:45:09]>> Well, of Paris.

[00:45:11]Limp over there driving very slowly.

[00:45:13]Slowly meaning like 20 miles an hour or less. Who cares if you get everyone in back of you all bent out of shape? Let them blow the horn because you could die if this happens.

[00:45:23]Good luck, Karen. Get it fixed right away. Thanks, guys. Thanks for your call. Bye-bye.

[00:45:27]>> Bye. 1-888-CAR-TALK or 1-888-227-8255.

[00:45:33]Hello, you're on Car Talk. This is Jeff.

[00:45:35]I'm calling from Peru. Which Peru? Uh that's New York. Where is that? Is that Oh, I know where it is, too. It's No, I don't. It's just south of Montreal.

[00:45:43]Yeah, because there's a whole bunch of weird places up there named like Egypt and Rome. Yeah, well, they ran out of names. They just And name [laughter] of anything cuz no one COMES UP HERE ANYWAY.

[00:45:54]SO, WHAT'S UP? WELL, I HAVE A A lifestyle question. Um about 4 years ago, I I quit my job and hit the road.

[00:46:03]Yeah. And I've been traveling for about 4 years. So, and you just quit your job, got in the car, car? Or you start walking?

[00:46:10]>> the first part of the trip was in my own car, yeah. I went up to Alaska and the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. And were you in in search of some great unyielding truth, or were you just curious about things? Just uh curious, just wanted to get away from working for a while.

[00:46:26]>> Yeah.

[00:46:27]Yeah. So, what's up? Keep going. Well, a lot of the time like when I was up in Alaska, there there's times when, you know, I tend to run out of gas. Yeah.

[00:46:36]And and so, that I I'm wondering, you know, I have all my backpacking gear and camping equipment, and about very often I have Coleman fuel, like a gallon of Coleman fuel.

[00:46:46]And I'm wondering Mhm.

[00:46:49]if I can put that into the car rather than, you know, walk out for 20 miles to try and find a gas >> How much of an emergency would it be like? Would the wolves be ready to let you pass through their digestive systems?

[00:47:02]No, it's never that bad. It's just a question of do I want to walk for a couple of days to get out to somewhere where I can buy some gas and haul it back.

[00:47:09]>> of days. Yeah. Days, huh? Yeah.

[00:47:13]>> In which case you might pass through the digestive system of [laughter] wolves.

[00:47:17]If they happen to come on you. Yeah, it's you know, it's sort of it's it happens in a variety of places. So, I you know, I >> know. It's it's I mean, you know, if if it works, then I can I can do it. But you know, I don't want to you know, screw up my car.

[00:47:30]>> Well, well, you will. You might. You might. You How How old is your car? Um it's a '93 Honda Civic hatch. What is Coleman fuel, anyway? Gasoline.

[00:47:41]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, but it's highly refined though.

[00:47:44]No, Cole I don't know exactly what Coleman fuel is. It's some secret >> No, I I I I I think it it we we are now entering with this is going to this is going to get us a letter from [laughter] from a Mr. Coleman, >> I do know that you can burn gasoline in your Coleman lantern.

[00:48:02]Yes. I thought I always thought I should know this.

[00:48:05]Uh but I always thought that Coleman fuel, I mean, don't forget, it doesn't come out of the ground known as Coleman fuel.

[00:48:12]>> No sorry. They weren't a company putting it in little >> Comes OUT OF COLEMAN MINES.

[00:48:17]>> [laughter] >> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S NOT ONE OF THE basic elements, you know, hydrogen, helium, Coleman.

[00:48:22]>> [laughter] >> I mean, they they get the stuff >> lithium, beryllium, boron. It's one of the rare earths.

[00:48:31]No, I mean, I think it's kerosene. Isn't it?

[00:48:34]>> No, no, it's it's definitely not kerosene.

[00:48:36]>> No, it's not kerosene.

[00:48:37]>> You toss a match on it, it flares up like gasoline.

[00:48:40]>> much more volatile. Kerosene will not actually will burn at room temperature.

[00:48:45]But uh Well, if you have a match >> Oh, no, it's it's explosive like gasoline. I mean, you know >> This stuff burns like gasoline.

[00:48:52]>> Yeah. Well, here's what here's the here's what you know, it's >> question, Jeff, and if anyone should know the answer, it would be us.

[00:48:59]And we don't.

[00:49:00]>> And we're sure embarrassed as hell. I mean, I should say I I'm not really that embarrassed because I've never had occasion to use Coleman fuel for anything cuz I'm not an outdoorsy person. So, I don't know what Coleman fuel even is.

[00:49:14]>> Well, I do have I do have heard of it. I do have a supply of Coleman fuel in my basement.

[00:49:19]>> You do? I do. I have a gallon of it and I >> Call your wife.

[00:49:22]>> have a Coleman lantern.

[00:49:23]>> Ask her to look go down in the basement Read what it says on the can. I think the side of the can says something like contains petroleum distillates, which is what gasoline is, too.

[00:49:32]>> Yeah. Fatal if swallowed. Harmful if fatal if swallowed. Keep out of reach of children and Tom Myatt.

[00:49:38]And [laughter] I think it's it's likely to be less explosive than gasoline.

[00:49:42]Okay. But it's probably not going to hurt your engine if you did it, you know, in under dire circumstances. What Well, that's the that's the thing. I just didn't know that just going to just explode. No, it's not going to explode, although you know I have read, and I'm sure we will get some not insignificant number of emails about mixing fuels and causing certain kinds of reactions to occur.

[00:50:06]>> stuff happening >> Like people adding gasoline to diesel fuel, you've heard of that? Yeah.

[00:50:10]>> Yeah, see I mean the biggest problem is not whether it will burn, but what will it do to the injectors, the fuel lines, and all that stuff. Mhm. So, I would recommend that you don't do it until you hear from us. Okay.

[00:50:23]>> Or you hear the explosion. Yeah, [laughter] that's right. Yeah, from the lab. Yeah, or if you do it, you you do it far away. Yeah, I mean I'm I'm very curious to know what this stuff is, especially since they don't really tell you.

[00:50:34]>> Yeah. But it does smell different. Mhm.

[00:50:37]>> It doesn't smell like gasoline.

[00:50:38]>> I've never seen or smelled the stuff, tell you the truth.

[00:50:41]>> But it does burn pretty intensely.

[00:50:44]Yeah.

[00:50:44]>> So, I think you could use it, and if the alternative would being eaten up by wolves, >> [clears throat] >> I'd put it in my tank.

[00:50:50]>> [laughter] >> See see you again, Jeff. Okay, thanks a lot.

[00:50:53]>> I Boy, that was very helpful, WASN'T IT?

[00:50:56]>> [laughter] >> HEY, DON'T FORGET IT IT WAS HE that called us.

[00:50:59]>> He called us.

[00:51:00]>> We didn't go looking for Jeff. I mean, what did he expect to get from us?

[00:51:04]He expected us to know something.

[00:51:07]>> we could have taken the safe We could have said, "Oh no, Jeff, you never should put anything in your tank except gasoline." That would be the safe way.

[00:51:13]>> Or how about we don't know? No, we couldn't DO THAT.

[00:51:17]>> [laughter] >> WE COULDN'T >> WHY NOT?

[00:51:19]>> IN OUR CHARTER.

[00:51:22]>> [laughter] >> WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY WE don't know.

[00:51:25]We're not Oh, NPR won't allow it? Not allowed. Not in our contract. You got to give an answer.

[00:51:30]>> [laughter] >> God damn it.

[00:51:32]Is this show almost over? Well, you've wasted another perfectly good hour listening to Car Talk. Our esteemed producer is Doug the subway fugitive, not a slave to fashion, Bongo Boy Burman. Our associate producers are David "The Cavs of Belleville" Green, and Katherine "Frau Blucher von und der Ochs" Our web lackey is Doug the old grey mare assisted by Connie Britchford.

[00:51:50]Our theme music is by David Dodge Grisman and our technical spiritual and manual advisor just back from his annual pre-bathing suit season fried clams fried dough fried chicken fry hoppers and diet coke blade. This is NPR.