AI and the Human Soul — Pope Leo XIV's Vision

Added: 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]Where are you?

[00:00:40]Hello. Hello, I'm Robert Moahan, editor of Inside the Ma Vatican magazine and Dia Gallagher in Rome. Dileia, we are here to present the encyclical that was presented by the Pope himself this morning in Rome, May 25th, which will go down in history. This is the first encyclical of his pontificate.

[00:01:03]It's been on his mind throughout his first year. He's mentioned artificial intelligence many times.

[00:01:09]The entitle is Magnifica Humanitas. You and I have talked about this encyclical.

[00:01:15]How can you describe its importance and perhaps its central con uh content?

[00:01:22]>> Well, Bob, it's a beautiful magnificent document. You know, I think first of all, it reflects the tone of Leo, which is wonderful. It's very measured, very comprehensive, very Christc centered. I know we'll have time to get into some of the details, but I want to just paint the picture for you of this morning because it was a really unusual event.

[00:01:44]It was the first time that a pope personally has presented his own encyclical and uh normally it would just happen with the press conference without the pope being there. Instead, they had it in the Paul V 6 senate hall. They invited a number of the curia members, ambassadors, um, and other people to attend this event. And then on the dis you had the pope, you had Cardinal Perilene, of course, the secretary of state. Um, you had three lay people. You had Cardinal Fernandez from the doctrine of the faith. Um, and then we had three lay people, two women. Anna Roland who is a fairly well-known in Catholic circles, Catholic professor of Catholic social thought at Durham University. Um and another wonderful professor who is from the Congo initially, Leoadi Lucumbo who who teaches at Santa Clara University. And then we had Christopher Ola who a O L Ah Ola uh who's a young uh man who is one of the co-founders of anthropic an AI company and that was unusual that created a few waves that the Vatican had invited an actual um you know founder of one of these companies but he has collaborated uh which we can speak about throughout the years with some um officials uh in the Catholic Church and so they had a a top spot in the presentation of this encyclical. In fact, the pope uh in his address at the end uh specifically called on Christopher Ola to thank him for his participation and to say that he would take up uh Christopher Ola's invitation to the Catholic Church to continue to walk together and learn about AI. There was also um Cardinal Churnney. Uh Cardinal Churnney has been very involved of course with um this document and I think we have a clip of uh some of his remarks about the importance of the document.

[00:03:48]>> Yes. Let's go to that clip. Cardinal Michael Cherney, >> your eminence, Pope Leo has unveiled his first encyclical today. Could you briefly explain to us what you see as being the impact of it? I think uh what Pope Leo has done is uh called our attention to a huge problem that all of us have been more or less aware of but many of us have been afraid to look at and he has really encouraged us on the one hand to be proud of this great achievement.

[00:04:21]um but to be careful and especially to be responsible and to say this is a great gift but let's use it well and not use it badly and there unfortunately are already bad consequences as well.

[00:04:35]>> Okay. So yeah, hope on the one hand and and uh gratitude and uh excitement that we have a tremendous technology which can move things very quickly, can provide a lot. But deep deep worry and fear that this could be used in an improper way or could cause some danger become some type of out of control uh power that uh takes away man's freedom in some way or even his soul. So and these types of questions came up in the encyclical itself. Um, I would like to mention that there's a priest from Ireland who helped present the pre-incl uh preparation on Friday who said that the anthropic owners, one of whom is this Christopher Ola who have made billions of dollars because anthropic is one of the major AI company. They've all promised to taken a made a promise to pay uh to give back to charity 80% of everything they have they gain which uh is impressive.

[00:05:50]So, this is kind of interesting because this in the runup was, as I said, um somewhat controversial that the Vatican would invite sort of one of these companies. And uh you're right that uh Father Brendan Maguire, who is in um Santa Clair, he used to work in tech.

[00:06:06]So, he's an Irish priest. He's at St. Simon's Parish, which is in Los Altos, which is right there in the heart of Silicon Valley. Um and he together with um Paul Tai, Archbishop Paul Tai who's at the culture culture and education diecaster he's the secretary there for about 10 years now Bob have been doing what they call the Manurva conversations with um Silicon Valley tech people. Um so so it's the two of them um who have been kind of going back and forth for some years now in uh formal and informal discussions. I've seen under Pope Francis's pontificate many um high-tech uh industry leaders come over to the Vatican for conferences. I moderated some of them. Um so there is there has been a discussion for a long time. Um, and I was thinking today, Bob, that actually it's it's quite admirable, I think, for Pope Leo to take on this topic for his first encyclical, don't you think? I mean, uh, there's a number of things that he could talk about, but this is huge. Uh, this is very complex and in fact, the encyclical um is very heavily weighted towards Catholic social doctrine. goes through the history of of many of the other encyclicals regarding Catholic social doctrine. um very Christc centered uh putting it under the mantle of Mary putting it all in the Catholic perspective and then there are these paragraphs it's 228 paragraphs so we don't say how many pages it is because it depends on the form of the encyclical but it's 228 paragraphs it's quite long um and and it does then in places get into what are some of the issues with regard to AI so it's not entirely about AI it is about what a Catholic vision of of humanity is. Um and and Father uh Maguire said this as well in speaking with journalists afterwards that you know this is a beginning. This is a beginning. Um and he hopes that those conversations that he had been holding in Silicon Valley and those people coming over to the Vatican would now kind of be amped up and amplified um and that more people would would sort of get on board as it were and and participate in uh in helping everybody to understand this technology and to use it for good.

[00:08:33]>> Well, we already have a couple of comments here from people watching us live. Dileia >> Curtis White. So basically, let us build a kinder, gentler tower of Babel, one with safeguards and a moral framework. A tower of Babel which benefits all mankind fairly and equitably. How do you react?

[00:08:54]>> Well, I'll give you what I'll give you what Pope Leo Thank you, Curtis. I'll give you what Pope Leo said exactly to that point. He said, "I ask everyone to abandon the construction of yet another tower of Babel and to join forces in building up the common good so that humanity will never lose its beauty and the world once again will come to recognize the human heart as a place where God desires to dwell." And in the opening of this encyclical, he uses these two biblical images. the Tower of Babel uh which of course revealed the limits he said of any effort however grandiose that arises from self-affirmation sacrifices human dignity for efficiency and aspires to reach heaven without God's blessing and the other image he uses is from the book of Nehemiah uh in the old testament and Nehemiah he says a Jew in the service of the Persian king who received news that Jerusalem had been destroyed he comes back and he examines this destruction ction of the city walls. This is the pope. He did not impose solutions from above. He convened the families, assigned each of them a section of the wall to rebuild, listened to their concerns, coordinated their efforts, and addressed any opposition. The narrative shows how the city is reborn, not through the initiative of one man, but through the shared responsibility of all. So, he gives that as the other image to the Tower of Babel rebuilding Jerusalem, the city of God.

[00:10:19]>> Okay. Well, I would think three points are important here. He took the name Leo I 13th and he told the cardinals two days after he was elected. This is why I took the name because I want to echo what he did in the 1890s 1891 his encyclical Rayum Novarum which was the first social encyclical because prior to that the church would speak about social matters but in in essence concentrated on inner church matters and the doctrines of theology not so much on social questions. We've now had a century and 35 years, 135 years since that. And Leo wanted to face AI, modern technology, these great questions of man and machine, man and computer. And he said, I took the name Leo the 14th because I was going to step into that.

[00:11:11]Started mentioning it all these months of his pontificate. Took the opportunity of writing his first encyclical on this question. And Curtis was correct about the fact that he even refers to the Tower of Babel and he this is in fact what Leo suggests some people want to do. But I think Leo takes his distance from that and says there's something in man which is uh the soul which is forgotten by the materialists that has to be protected and defended and which uh we talked about before the show. IA and uh so people who uh may not believe in Leo's profound conviction about the centrality of the soul's salvation should read these paragraphs perhaps again.

[00:12:07]Um but the the next thing is this is such a central part of our society now.

[00:12:13]It's a turning point. There are many scientists who've studied this and they say they're near a point of singularity where the computers themselves have been trained to write code. They are now up to the level of the top 200 coders in the world and by the end of this year they're expected to surpass all of them.

[00:12:32]So we are facing the unlimited and free development. the wild west development of a technology which could be dangerous and the pope is addressing that. It also could be extremely profitable. Billions and tens of billions and hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent on this. So Leo has fulfilled his promise to stand in the succession to Leo I 13th and he's initiated that with an extremely important issue for our society today. And the third point is he's trying to start something which will involve all sorts of people as there's an effort made to do what Curtis talks about place safeguards around this technology.

[00:13:20]And uh then we have one other comment here that's come in. Lori, if something can be used in an improper way, you can bet powerful people will use it improperly. That's the only guarantee besides corporal death and taxes.

[00:13:36]How do you respond to that? Is that part of what's been happening?

[00:13:42]>> Well, I mean, yes, of course, we'll always have that, won't we? There will always be the risk. And u that brought to mind one of the comments from this Brendan Magcguire, Father Brendan Magcguire, whom we were talking about before, who I think is one of the links in bringing um the tech leaders to the Vatican. Um and and one of somebody put that question to him. you know, how can you trust these these are for-profit people? Um, aside from the founder today, Chris Ola of Anthropic, saying, you know, admitting we are for-profit companies, um, he says, you know, we keep finding things that are mysterious, even troubling. You know, sometimes we don't know what to do and we need your help. Um, and somebody might be cynical about that and say, "Well, yeah, sure." Um and Father Maguire uh was pointing out that he does trust some of these leaders and in any case and this came out also in the briefing which we had on Friday. Um you need to dialogue with these people. You do need to be at the table. Um even if you doubt that you know they are all necessarily of goodwill or working at cross purposes. That's the opinion anyway of Oplio and the Vatican.

[00:15:01]>> So, we've got a kind of Irish connection here that many people may not realize. I think we should point that up. It's uh Brendan Maguire who's a former tech guy who became a priest in California from Ireland >> and Paul Thai who's been a priest and a bishop in the Vatican and probably was the man who authored that document last year about AI and he's kind of behind the scenes but he's an important figure and his connection with Brendan Maguire, Father Maguire is creating a synergy which is making the Vatican you've said there's already been eight or 10 conferences over the past decade which Paul >> yes Paul Thai is the secretary for culture and education the diccastry for culture and education so he's you know got a fairly important position over here and he's been very involved um as have other people as I said there have been a number they just haven't gotten the same amount of attention obviously because the pope hasn't written an encyclical >> about it Um, >> so the the Vatican is is stepping up to the plate here and saying in in in uh service of humanity in service of the uh imo day the image of God in man it wants to play a role in putting parameters into AI and not leave it to be entirely unregulated. And there's going to be a lot of opposition to this.

[00:16:35]Well, the question of regulation uh the pope does address in his um encyclical is not really regulation as such because we don't AI is no longer and technology is no longer under a state control. It's in private hands. So, it's not just a question of regulation. It's it's a well he he doesn't give it maybe a more specific um name but in other words the reason that they feel it's important to have conferences to talk to speak that's the language of of Pope Leo I is um you know precisely to find ways um to help direct this technology to use it for good. Um, but exactly how that should happen is is quite complicated obviously.

[00:17:24]>> Okay, I think we should take a brief look at the encyclical itself just for a moment and then we have a special guest that we'd like to bring on a young professor, Catholic professor from Franciscan University of Stubenville who is herself an AI expert, a professor of artificial intelligence. As soon as we take a look at this encyclical, we're going to bring on Fernanda Sias.

[00:17:51]What do we have? Uh this is the the text of the document itself. Magnifica humanitas. Maybe we should start by the two parts of this title. What what do these words signify? And then the second part on safeguarding the human person in a time of artificial intelligence.

[00:18:13]Uh we could uh what can we say about that Dia?

[00:18:20]>> Well the first the first line is important. I mean normally in encyclical the opening uh words are the title magnifica humanitas and indeed in the Italian Spanish and French versions um the translation is magnificent humanity.

[00:18:35]But if you go down a little bit to our opening in English, it will set you'll see how they've translated it um which is equally beautiful, but it says humanity created by God in all its grandeur. So there they've translated Magnifica as grandeur, which is which is fine. it it doesn't quite fit the form of of the others um in terms of the title but nonetheless it's magnificent humanity and in the opening he is the pope is pointing to this pivotal choice of either the tower of babel or the city of god and uh that's those are those two wonderful biblical images which he goes on to elucidate um which kind of remain as his um motif throughout.

[00:19:28]>> Okay, I we we have to move quickly because we have to get to Professor Seias because she's the true expert. But this was released on the day after Pentecost. Yesterday was Pentecost Sunday, 50 days after Easter. And uh the Pentecost is the sending of the Holy Spirit, the descent of the Holy Spirit like a mighty wind through the the locked doors of the upper room in Jerusalem. The church in a sense is born with a with with divine help with with the with the Holy Spirit providing wisdom, providing courage, providing faith.

[00:20:13]This Holy Spirit I think was understood by Pope Leo to be the context for this first sentence here. Are you going to construct a new tower of Babel or build the city to which God and humanity in which God and humanity dwell together?

[00:20:34]And uh I connect the the issuing it of to the world on on the 25th the day after Pentecost as saying we must not forget the divine. We must not forget the holy. We must not forget that dimension of the human person which transcends the material. This I think Yeah.

[00:20:55]>> Yeah. If you go down at to the very end at the conclusion it's under conclusion.

[00:21:00]Um it just it it absolutely w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w wraps up exactly your point, Bob. And and I love it because I look at it kind of like a plan, his plan. He says, "At the end of this reflection, I would like to propose a sober yet demanding program of Christian life in which we can navigate this epical change in light of the gospel. This emerges through contemplating God's plan, living ecclesial unity by partaking of the eukarist, building a world centered on the common good, and praying in union with the blessed virgin Mary. It's that first graph right there underneath conclusion. And to me that's that is the heart of um you know if as it were a a a plan of for Christians what we can do and what is most important actually in all of this contemplation the eukarist which he puts as living ecclesial unity which we know is an important theme uh right now by partaking of the eukarist building a world centered on the common good and praying in union with the blessed virgin Mary. I agree. I think that's got that sort of um under underpinning of all of the rest of it.

[00:22:13]>> And then yeah, the word be became flesh.

[00:22:16]Um God, the divine enters our poor humanity and shares it. And uh but this is uh Curtis White. I would like to have I would have liked to see greater emphasis laid upon the magnificence of man being entirely contingent upon our relationship to God that our only dignity is in him that we were created by and for him. Um well I'm going to go right to another comment. Is it a half measure? This is GMKP.

[00:22:51]Thank you for contributing.

[00:22:54]Is it a half measure? this encyclical or is it proposing actual solutions? The founder of Anthropic says 75% of all jobs will be replaced. I mean just that phrase alone maybe it's exaggerated or not fully understood because maybe new jobs will be created but it is pivotal. This technology with the hundreds of billions being focused on it is evidently a turning point in our human progress on this planet and it it's a danger if it's not used correctly and it will cause great suffering if people aren't prepared. How does the church and society handle such a crisis and major major sea change? Well, the answer is partly by writing a huge encyclical on it, starting the process of dialogue on it, involving also the people who aren't even Catholics. This Christopher Ola is not a Catholic, but he agreed to come and be present. and uh this uh this team of two Irish men both of whom are very intelligent men one of whom has been in technology and became a priest and the other of whom is a priest who has studied technology and this brings us to our uh someone who may be able to help us understand this who is our special guest Dr. Fernandanda Sihas who teaches artificial intelligence as a professor at Franciscan University in Stenville, Ohio. Welcome Dr. Fernandanda.

[00:24:32]>> Thank you and it's great to be here.

[00:24:35]>> Okay. Are you excited about the publication of this encyclical?

[00:24:39]>> I am very excited. I'll be honest. I finished reading it less than two hours ago, but it was I mean it's a beautiful document. It's long but I would say the language is very concrete and a couple one of the things that struck me is immediately and it goes on throughout the document is this call to the Catholic yes and so as you guys were discussing it it's really a call neither to reject nor to embrace the culture and the current moment but to transform it.

[00:25:14]>> Okay. And I really liked this parallel between uh Babel and the the rebuilding of Jerusalem in that what we're really called to I think it's a paragraph nine that says the primary choice is not between a yes or no to technology but between constructing Babel and rebuilding Jerusalem. So really it's a call not to build or not build but what to build and how to build it.

[00:25:45]>> Uh excellent point. Perfect. I'm a lot of us are very worried. Do we have a right and a reason to be worried uh about this technology?

[00:25:58]>> Absolutely we do. And I would say that and and to answer some of some of u your viewers questions here the the document lays out a handful of instances in which this becomes a dangerous technology. One of the references not made in the document but the that the holy father made this morning in his address was uh is the parallel with nuclear nuclear weapons and nuclear energy. That's uh that's a an analogy that's dear to my heart being a a particle physicist and >> okay let let me just let me just emphasize what you just said. He compares this technology to the development of nuclear technology which led to nuclear energy but also to nuclear weapons.

[00:26:45]>> Yes, he did in his address this morning and the language in the document itself is um he calls it disarming AI. So in paragraph 110 he says disarming AI means freeing it from the mentality of armed competition. So it doesn't mean to reject the technology but preventing it from dominating humanity. And throughout the document he highlights what interaction with AI can do to human connection. He highlights the nature of education changing in the era in the era of AI. and he spends a a a big part of the document talking about how it might change and it's already changing the nature of warfare as well.

[00:27:31]>> Okay. I mean uh let's talk just for a moment. You're a particle physicist by training and now you're specializing in AI. Can you tell us what given that background what strikes you about the present moment? uh very personally are you deeply concerned and then and do you think this will be the start of a real engagement that will lead to something or are we not part of this enormous process that's in the hands of several multi-billionaires?

[00:28:06]So I like you said I am a particle physicist by training but I uh introduced some AI tools to particle physics for the first time uh I guess like 12 years ago at this point and that's where my expertise comes and now I'm dedicating myself at Franciscan University to teach AI and computer science and I'm both I would say both scared and excited about the prospects.

[00:28:33]One thing that is highlighted throughout the document that I I talk to my students all the time about is this call to action and to be active in the process of what society is building with these technologies. I think as an educator the the nature of education is changing and the document highlights how as educators we need to be aware of that and um and educate people in the discernment process of how and where to use these tools which is important but I think it it touches on the importance of understanding what must be preserved there's actually a section specifically on what must be preserved which is our humanity and the nature and education for example encounter and and the part of education that is about encountering other people but I think it it's also a call for people in the technical fields to engage in the discernment process of what am I working on and for what purpose. So some people are a lot of people are rightly worried about jobs going away even jobs in technical industries. I found this very reassuring that really what we need is experts to carry this technology forward that have that depth of the philosophy of what is the human person and how we're called to relationship with Christ and how that informs where we're going. One of the things that I would say is that people can there's a very crisp call to action for everyone in in the document that I that that I found very comforting. Uh the holy father talks about the power of words and how we use our speech in the digital arena and outside. And um it's here in paragraph 214. He says, "The first contribution we can make toward a more humane civilization is to be mindful of our words." He says, "Let us disarm words and we will help to disarm the world." And it's really powerful concept especially when you think about the fact that our words in the digital arena are now used to train some of these algorithms as well.

[00:30:53]But the fact that he puts such an emphasis in the in in the fact that how each one of uses our words is really a window into how we see the world and one another and it's in fact shaping society around us and shaping the world. And I found that I I I found a very very comforting and I love the fact that that was maybe one of the crispest calls to action for individuals although there's governments and developers as well.

[00:31:24]>> We have a couple of comments here along these lines. A lot of people are wondering about this. This is DS pilot.

[00:31:33]What should Catholics who work in AI do to help ensure that the projects they work on in companies who develop large langu models? Is that what it is? Large language models, LLMs, stay aligned with Catholic teaching. And that means that the words in these things must include words about holiness, about divinity, about the supernatural. And if we have an entirely materialistic view, say it it was the models only would include the writings say of uh of um non-Christian philosophers, let's say. I mean it could be which brings this second question up.

[00:32:18]So they want to know what Catholics working in the industry can do. And then the second question, uh I'm sorry this one. Curtis is back. Curtis White what we call man and he's quoting he's quoting CS Lewis the abolition of man which may be the central question here maybe Lewis was being a prophet and we're now in that time where man may be abolished what we he quote what we call man's power over nature turns out to be a power exerciseed by some men over other men with nature as its instrument.

[00:32:56]CS Lewis, the abolition of man. In other words, the Pope is warning of this too, that this technology can't be abandoned entirely and ended because we were already 60 years into computers and it's helpful in many ways and we can make them better. But if it becomes funneled into the hands of six or 10 or 20 men who will decide the fates of millions and even billions, that's that's a concern and he wants an enormous discussion, a wide- ranging discussion. Correct.

[00:33:35]>> Yes, that's that's absolutely part of it. as technical professionals. Um the document does highlight this fact that whoever is behind developing these tools. They're not really values agnostic, but they're actually reflecting some of the values and priorities of whoever is developing these tools. We when if you are a developer in in in in in this industry you do get to decide not only what technologies you are working on but to an extent if you're at the top of the chain you decide what to get used what what they get used for as well an example that comes to mind is the current situation with anthropic and the department of war and >> okay can can you just explain that can you explain that very quickly because a lot There was this uh controversy and essentially um Enthropic has uh limited the the scope within which the department of war can use their products and essentially uh the military the US military wouldn't have full control of everything about the algorithm and it first struck me as being an expert in AI as maybe a way of saying guys you don't totally understand where the errors might be and you might be trying to make decisions with AI that are for a human to make and that's actually also also highlighted in in the document how when it comes to uh lethality in in in interventions and more there there should be a human who is responsible uh for for making those decisions and I think I haven't full the end of this.

[00:35:23]But but the options on the table were to uh remove anthropic from uh contracts with either the federal government or at least the Department of War over o over this the this issue. And Anthropic was again not trying to limit the usability per se, but trying to keep it away from it being used to decide what elements to target and just things that should be that a human should be in charge of, >> right?

[00:35:57]>> And it was a it's it's been a controversial issue for for a while. But when you are the developer of these tools, you have >> you you you have a lot of say in what goes into it. Like you said, the data that it inputs and it learns from, but also the values that are going kind of the layers on top of it. Some of them are safeguards which are necessary, but some of them uh are more of a philosophy of what the algorithm is trying to do.

[00:36:28]>> Okay. You've said very important things.

[00:36:30]I need to precisely make the point that Chris Ola is the co-founder of Anthropic and the Pope chose him to be at the side at the at the table there presenting this encyclical today. Even though he's not a Catholic, he had been engaged with this effort to make sure the technology would not be used in a way that the human factor would be left out. And this this is what Curtis is concerned about.

[00:36:57]I'm less concerned about job loss than I am about the liquidation of humanity and our virtual enslavement. Well, this is what a lot of people are thinking. And then the next person, Chesty Marine, I assume he's been a Marine. See, Sephidelis, my father was a Marine also. I don't know what the right answers are in all of this, but I would bet the farm that the genie is not going back in the bottle on this one. Which simply means for everyone who's concerned about the pope getting involved in artificial uh uh intelligence, I I praise the pope and support the pope. We we must get involved because the genie is out of the bottle and if we are not involved this genie will be functioning without our uh without consulting us and uh I think that's extremely maybe the most important thing that's come up in this conversation. We do need to engage this.

[00:38:01]The Catholic Church, the wisdom of the church, the wisdom of Christ, the wisdom of the Holy Spirit has to be engaged in this. We Dr. Seahas is at Franciscan University. Seems vitally important that Catholic universities like Franciscan are training the next generation in AI through the Catholic lens. Totally agree. I I would agree and um I can tell you at least from the perspective here at Franciscan is that we've spent a long time discussing how to approach AI and the education that we're providing. And really one of the main pillars that we're that that what we provide is sitting on is a strong core formation in the liberal arts and that's a a just a strong education that allows people to engage in that discernment and to understand uh the philosophy of just the human person and what needs to be preserved and grounded in in Catholic social teaching. And I think that's that's extremely important. But to to address some of the other comments, um, uh, this person says something about, "I'm worried about the liquidation of humanity and ver virtual enslavement." I found that very interesting. I don't know if uh you've read this document uh Curtis White, but there is a whole section of the document about uh the enslavement of the of the human to the technology in a couple of different terms. One, it it talks about the importance of education in institutions but also in the family and how dangerous this can be particularly for the younger generations who there's already studies showing that your cognitive ability and your dependence to this tool to all technology but to these tools it will be exacerbated if you start using them at at an early age. but also in the fact that there is um almost an economic enslavement in a way. So we have to think and it's calling for the development of these tools with an eye to the fact that there's this technology is being created and what impact is it having on the environment? What impact is it having on people work >> to for us to have the materials necessary to be able to build all of this technology? Do they themselves have access to that technology? Because AI can be a great tool for accessibility.

[00:40:45]It can uh enable people who maybe don't aren't experts in programming to develop a new business and a website for it and start and and make uh their ideas into a reality. But how far does that access really stretch and does everyone have access to this technology? And in fact that we should evaluate these technologies in in terms of >> how much more are they building the world that we want to to build. So how much are they enhancing the human element and preserving our humanity and not just the economic input?

[00:41:25]>> Well, I'd like to toss this to Dia, but I do want to make one one comment. Yeah, we we we since the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were told to tend the garden, be stewards of the garden. They had fallen, but they were also intended to be somehow to build up um the garden, to be stewards of the garden. This is um the idea behind our our belief that when we develop better ways of doing things, it's not against God's will. It's our use of our god-given mind to develop the wheel, to develop the the um the aqueduct, to bring water into the village, to uh develop ways to to sew clothing or to to grow cotton and and tend sheep and become prosperous and to have trees and gardens and vineyards.

[00:42:23]and maybe not uh alter things in such a way that we could have problems that are against nature.

[00:42:32]Maybe certain genetically modified things could be a problem. And this gets us to Joseph Ratzing or Pope Benedict the 16th repeating something that's throughout the Catholic tradition. Man should not do everything that he can do.

[00:42:46]That means some things we can do are bad, are evil, who produce misery.

[00:42:53]And um therefore we have to have a moral judgment. Not just utilitarian, not just the the the most uh beautiful external appearance of an apple, but the the taste and the the uh the integrity of it. So that our science is often not truly science. It's partial science with partial results. We don't have a holistic mind. We don't fully tend the garden. This technology could be useful to us, but if it's given over to controlling us, it would be becoming a type of demonic power. That's my concern.

[00:43:35]>> You know, Bob, I know we have to go um fairly soon, but I was just wondering listening to Dr. Fernandanda if it isn't it's interesting that these um people who are involved in the creation of AI uh the tech industry is looking now and talking about ethics. I mean that is a kind of irony that maybe um could lead to something if you wanted to speak about something positive um that actually there does seem to be a lot of interest now um given this advanced technology and what do we do with it and is it not a moment perhaps it is of a kind of um rebirth for Catholic thinking to come into contact with society in in a in a in a sort of rosy way. I I think there could be some um inkling of that with this encyclical and with who who asked the question, you know, what what do we do if we're Catholics working in a situation? What do we do if we're at a university teaching about it? What do we do if we're parents? Um, and if Pope Leo's encyclical and subsequent, as I'm sure there will be now many discussions about it would bring the not just tech industry, but let's say non-atholics or people that have never heard about this um anthropological view of what it means to be human and start thinking about that from a Catholic perspective. Maybe there would be a kind of renaissance of our um Catholic social thought and our Catholic theological thought. And I think that would be amazing.

[00:45:22]>> Absolutely. I I I fully agree with that.

[00:45:26]It's interesting that before we had AI and robotics, um Isaac Aszimov used to talk about the three laws of robotics.

[00:45:36]>> Isaacov. Yes. And and it's interesting that we got all the way here and now some of these companies and I think it anthropic is one of them are interacting way more with philosophers to understand the the the parts of the models that are difficult to understand means that we have to do a different type of deeper understanding of what's at the at the basis of this but also how we insert values or at least guiding principles to the actions of these tools.

[00:46:07]Interestingly, one of the potential rooms for um options for employment of some of our philosophy graduates might be in these very companies and as as well as our um our graduates in theology for example if we want to inject an understanding of the human person but it also comes into the discernment of what to use these tools for. You mentioned education and in the family of course it's a good tool for education to make things more efficient but we're not just providing information really like a good solid education is really informing people and guiding them in in growing in virtue or necessary to to carry out their profession. So, so that discernment and not only in how we use them but like you said how this gets integrated into the guiding principles or the core tasks of the algorithms is is very >> Oh, you you broke up a little bit there.

[00:47:20]>> Okay, just from a uh we're talking about Pope Leo's encyclical. We're talking about the most uh pro popular and important technology of this present time and we're talking about the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

[00:47:41]We have all always held in the Catholic Church the principle that the salvation of souls was the supreme law of the church.

[00:47:51]And we've always held that man has a destination that's not limited to this material world, but that we have no lasting habitation here, but we are oriented toward eternity. And that in that eternity, there will occur a beatotific vision which will include things like glory to God in the highest and hosana and adoration.

[00:48:20]Does the artificial intelligence allow room for the soul, for the spirit, for adoration?

[00:48:30]And if it can you just reflect actually both of you, if you could reflect on that, where are we with our civilization in 2026?

[00:48:42]>> I I'll just I'll just say a couple things in this. I would say it depends on how we use it and how we guide it. If we there is definitely an optimistic possibility for the future where there are jobs and part of our jobs that are replaced by AI and that allows us to to do the parts of our jobs that enhance and highlight the human element and that we that that allow us to to engage maybe even more in prayerful discernment and and like you say adoration. I would say personally it's made me bring to my own prayer time and adoration way more the technology aspect of of my profession and how to engage with these tools and what the consequences of the of them are. One thing that the document reflects specifically is uh it it talks for a section about transhumanism and the the Holy Father highlights this this idea that weakness or age or even death in a human person is something that it's a problem that needs to be fixed.

[00:50:05]And it highlights beautifully how really we're uh we're made for the lord and he is our savior and it even speaks to the fact that there is value in who we become and how we encounter the the lord even in our suffering. So this idea that uh transhumanism will pursue the perfecting of the human person or the the going away of all all human problems that that that's not what we're called to but the true perfection like you said in the in the Vatific >> and uh there's also a human vision and Dia you have to go. We're all going to go in just a moment. We're ending our program. the you've got two children when you look into their eyes there's a vision there's a communication can this be reduced to AI uh you're going to you yeah tell us >> yeah let me tell you first of all there's a body you know I mean like if that isn't the most obvious thing um you know AI can come up with all the wonderful robots they want but they're not not never going to be a flesh and blood body and there is uh the pope has a nice line in his encyclical every person's body is a dwelling place of god and a temple of the holy spirit he does touch on these themes I think it could go and should go we should propose that even more about what it what are the differences between being a human and being a machine I don't think people have uh have thought about that enough but certainly in his conclusion about the importance of contemplation And you said it yourself, Bob.

[00:51:54]Adoration, beholding, those very fundamental Catholic um notions of what the human person is made for ultimately and what I don't think an AI machine um will ever be able to do in the same way.

[00:52:16]>> All right. Well, thank you both so much and Dia will be talking to you over the summer. Perhaps we'll have you back on Fernandanda as you meditate on these things and follow them. I actually feel the situation may be so important that we should have a regular weekly podcast where we talk about AI and the question of the human, the uh technological, the divine, the interface, the problems. And uh if we do that we could perhaps have a regular continuation of this. Today the encyclical was introduced. The pope casted upon the waters which now reverberating around the world. Someone wrote that the genie of AI is uh out of the box, but also the genie of the pope's vision of an AI placed at the service of the human person who isn't abolished. It's not the abolition of man is uh is now out May 25th, 2026.

[00:53:24]Is it maybe Dia? Could you just read the end of the encyclical and then then we'll sign off.

[00:53:31]>> Uh with the same faith as Mary, let us become weavers of hope in our world, sharing who we are and what we have so that the presence of Jesus may grow among us and his kingdom take shape in the humble fidelity of daily life even in the era of AI can become a time in which the Holy Spirit brings about the civilization of love in our lives.

[00:53:51]Indeed, the Lord continues to make all things new and offers every era the possibility of becoming part of salvation history in the light of the incarnation. I entrust our desire to the mother of Christ, to the woman of the Magnificat, that she may guide our steps through this time of change and preserve in each of us true faith in the gospel so that we may bear witness to the grandeur of humanity in which God has made his dwelling.

[00:54:20]Thank you very much. Until next we speak.

[00:54:25]Blessings to all.

[00:54:28]>> Thank you.

[00:54:57]Heat. Heat.