The Last Muslims in Andalus || NBF 567 || Dr Shadee Elmasry

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]Heat.

[00:00:18]Heat.

[00:00:37]I see.

[00:00:41]Oh, welcome everybody to the Sufi Society nothing but facts live stream on a warm beautiful uh spring day in the great state of New Jersey as we mentioned earlier. Again, the great state of New Jersey was listed by Travel and Leisure as the best place to live in the United States. Um, no surprise there. Running champions. Uh, last time it was the US News and World Report. Three years running. Uh, but nonetheless, uh, we were heading back down memory, not memory lane, but history. Uh, the the avenues in and the annals of history.

[00:01:38]and one of the histories that we're pretty much closely associated to because of the Andelucian and the Madaki connection and the Moroccan connection.

[00:01:48]And we're headed down that route today where we're going to talk about some of the last Muslims that came out. By the way, just cuz they were the last Muslims to be kicked out of Andelus doesn't make them some innocent victims. You know, here in Sophina Society, we don't believe in victims in the first place.

[00:02:04]Okay? Definitely these guys you're going to see not exactly some innocent victims at all. and our sheh that we all study from his book uh and we spend pretty much most of our initial years in Maki studying with isb he's part of this he's definitely part of this he is one of the sh at this time period that is involved in fatawa written by the uh uh uh on this subject matter um and we have here the author of an article 32page article on this history that he's going to narrate to us. A mean >> Amin is with us uh and his last name is W.

[00:02:59]>> Correct.

[00:03:03]Al >> exactly.

[00:03:10]All right. So, um, Namin Lamaria written in in English there. So, these days, you know, you say something like that, someone thinks he's on the Netherlands soccer team or something like that. Uh, you can't you can't turn on any soccer league anymore without seeing a Moroccan or an Algerian. And you are originally Moroccan, correct?

[00:03:30]>> Yeah, correct. My parents are both from Morocco. Yeah, they were born there.

[00:03:33]>> And you live in the Netherlands.

[00:03:35]>> And I was born in the Netherlands and I live here. Yeah, indeed.

[00:03:37]>> Wonderful. So, welcome to the Safi Society. nothing but facts live stream and uh >> thank you. Thank you.

[00:03:43]>> I was unfortunately hooked on this article at the time I was reading it in the car.

[00:03:50]That's how hooked I was on it. A swerving all around reading about Muhammadi.

[00:03:59]We're talking 1492 of course is when the Muslims lose their last city which is but the Muslims remain there for about 200 more years.

[00:04:12]>> Let's start with that.

[00:04:14]>> Even longer. Yeah. Even longer. Yeah.

[00:04:16]>> Talk to us about that. So, so Shi, first of all, I think I need to mention that I think you have quite a fan base in the Netherlands.

[00:04:37]>> Nice to hear.

[00:04:38]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have quite some fans in the Netherlands and when I talked to some of my friends and also in the WhatsApp groups, they were all like following you. Oh, I think yeah, I think you were one of the pioneers in the English language and um also well one of my examples when I was still young I can remember that you were doing your PhD. I think it was in medical sciences or something like that.

[00:04:59]>> No, it was in Hadad Da in the works of Abdullah bin Ahad.

[00:05:04]>> Okay. I thought it was medicine or something but I I followed it. I followed it. So it's very it's an honor to be here to be talking to you. Um so that's the first thing that I wanted to say. It's my pleasure and I didn't know that there were that there were really English speaking uh English speakers uh in the Netherlands. So um please give them my salam too.

[00:05:25]>> Almost everyone is an English speaker in the Netherlands.

[00:05:27]>> Okay. I didn't realize that.

[00:05:28]>> Almost everyone speaks English.

[00:05:29]>> Nice. I didn't realize that.

[00:05:31]>> And second of all, I really appreciate your time uh taking a look at the article.

[00:05:36]>> Um Asher is I could say my life work.

[00:05:41]I'm finishing my PhD on Ibnu Asher.

[00:05:44]>> Amazing.

[00:05:45]>> I've already uh published a commentary on Asher in English. Uh sorry, in Dutch >> and we are now translating it into into English and hopefully inshallah it will come out after I receive the PhD. We want to have like a double launch.

[00:06:01]>> Mhm.

[00:06:02]>> So that would be interesting. And obviously during the research um I started to delve into Ibn Ash's life. Um and he's a very interesting person. Um apart from being a scholar >> uh he has a lot of books. A lot of people don't know this but Asher is actually a master in the dut >> so his commentary on the written by it talks about the so how do you write the does it have a dama? Does it have a fat?

[00:06:33]and he's in authority in this. So he's like um a true authority. If says it needs to be written in a particular way, we take it.

[00:06:43]>> Um so that is his specialtity. And but obviously he got famous because of the poem.

[00:06:50]And when I started um researching his life um I I bought all of the in the as you know it's like a Yeah. How can you explain this? This is like a scholarly CV where the scholars or student of the scholar or maybe like the brother of a scholar or someone related to the scholar or the scholar himself writes down what he studied with whom he studied where he studied and sometimes you find historical information in the faharis.

[00:07:18]>> Uh which a lot of western researchers just don't know about. Mhm.

[00:07:22]>> I have one of the here which is the ofdeni and there is like information about in there that he left because he didn't want to sell he didn't want to give a fatwa to the sultan to sell it's also written in the article so it's also a historical document the is not just a scholarly document document it's also a historical document so I tried to take a look at all of these and also the the biographical dictionaries where we um have the lives of the scholars so when combine all of these sources and the western sources I think you get like a more historical image and that is what I try to do with the article. So I'm wondering how you enjoyed the article and things that you remember and maybe we can start from there.

[00:08:05]>> Yeah. So of I love Anducian history. Um I I love the the peninsula uh and to hear about the Muslims who stayed there and as I said not all innocent people.

[00:08:21]>> Uh of course you know we have to separate between what the leadership does and the people but just this idea that there were that the Muslims stayed there for 200 years or more you said afterwards. Could you take us to from the Iberian the loss of Granada 1492 that's the the date everyone knows >> loss of Granada they submitted it to >> Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand and then >> as Muslims always say that money was used then >> to fund Christopher Columbus coming over but um let's go from there to Hornacho this this village of wealthy Arabs and Muslims in Spain tell us about that while edif pulls pulls up a map.

[00:09:06]>> Yeah. So I think the best book there are two books but the best one is written by Cole and it's called um I have it here.

[00:09:13]It's called creating Christian Granada and it actually talks about the transformation of how Granada went from an Islamic city to a Christian city. And it deals with how they did that in architecture, how they did that with uh city policies and also how they did that with actually getting people from outside of southern Spain into the city.

[00:09:32]Um so this is a very long chapter indeed. It's almost like 200 years. So what you can basically say is that Muslims they lost political power. Uh but they were still a presence in the Iberian Peninsula especially in the south but also in the north in Aragon and in Valencia. A lot of people don't know this but there was a huge presence in the north as well. And as time progresses they start to lose certain rights. uh at the very beginning uh the kings and queens they promised them that they could speak their own language that the mosques wouldn't be desecrated uh that they could still teach Arabic etc. But well you should never trust the conqueror uh but as you see in history all of these rights are sort of um diluted one by one and it was also in the article. So for example the hornacheros it was a village I think approximately 400 people uh 400 families I'm sorry and they were given certain rights for example the right to carry arms they were one of the few villages that actually had the right to carry arms and eventually those were that right was taken away as well they spoke Arabic uh in the sources that I that I talked about you could actually see that some of the horrors they went to prison and the prison guards couldn't understand them so they had to get like a translator because they all spoke Arabic >> and this was also one of the complaints of the local church, the clergy. They would go to uh Sunday mass because they were um uh it was imposed on them but they couldn't understand anything >> and they spoke Arabic and they made Arabic jokes. So you can see that they still speak Arabic and all of a sudden uh the decrees came. So the expulsion of the of the Morescos because that's what they're historically called after the capitulation of Granada. Um it came I think in two waves. There was a decree for Granada and the surrounding areas and then Valencia I think and the Hornacheros were actually very interesting because they actually left before the expulsion.

[00:11:25]I think they could sort of sense something was not okay. So they left uh the village of Hornachos and they went to the south and then they went to Tetwan and then they went to Sla to to modern day Isla which is Rabbat.

[00:11:40]So when they traveled down, what was the impetus? Was it just a systematic um expulsion of everybody?

[00:11:49]>> No. So the horneros they uh they uh they left the Iberian Peninsula first.

[00:11:55]>> Mhm.

[00:11:56]>> Before the actual expulsion. But when the actual expulsion happened, um I think uh my PhD supervisor uh he's one of the world experts on this topic by the way and they estimate that it's around 300,000 people that were actually expelled.

[00:12:11]>> Uh and not everyone was expelled. Uh because some of them chose to stay ch they actually chose to stay. Uh but the ones that were expelled, most of them went to Morocco, Algeria, Tunis, and the large contingent went to uh the the Ottoman Empire as well. But most of them went to to Morocco and this is why we still have a lot of these surnames in Morocco that actually denote uh denote the place where they're originally from.

[00:12:34]For example, Bellafridge. I don't know if you've ever heard of the surname Bellaf.

[00:12:39]>> Yeah.

[00:12:41]It's it's a city from from Spain.

[00:12:44]>> So I'm looking here.

[00:12:45]>> The most famous one is Muri. Right.

[00:12:48]>> Of course. Yeah. or Morsia's got a wonderful map here uh from the map of Andelos. And so where would Hornacho be relative to >> um so it's in Exreadora which is a little bit norththeast northwest next to Bados. So near the uh Portuguese border.

[00:13:09]>> Okay. Northwest. So that's actually pretty far off from from the coast from the southern coast.

[00:13:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. also out of the historical and what we now call and out of that region it's it's in extreme >> tell us about the uh the the religious status of the people do we know whether or not they were becoming Christians resisting Christianity did they travel to Morocco to learn did knowledge just fade away from them >> and were just Muslim but with only a few >> things about them such as not eating pork >> yeah exactly So the image is scattered.

[00:13:47]Some of them are really into the um some of them really um we actually have f texts from the era. So if my memory serves me correct and we have manuscripts from that time. So they used to study it. But we also obviously have people that sort of are culturally Muslim. They don't eat pork but the level of um what we would call like proper it's sort of dying out. Uh, and this is logical indeed because the um the the crown was actually hammering on them. A lot of people think that the Inquisition was only for the for the for the Christians or the Jews, but it was also for the Muslims, right?

[00:14:25]>> There are stories that uh they had to attend mass and when they did the Christian wedding, they went home and they did the Islamic wedding and then the the Inquisition would come and they would break up the party. Um they would check on Fridays if they were not having um the Friday prayers. There are accounts of uh they um there are accounts that the Musk they had to hang pork in their homes on a Friday.

[00:14:50]>> Mhm.

[00:14:51]>> Um there are accounts of uh Muslim burials and that the inquisition comes and they dig out the bones and and and um put them in the Christian graveyard.

[00:15:01]So all of these small little things that sort of it's very repressive >> and then over and over time like maybe like in 100 years 200 years their religiosity gets less. This was also the reason why why Shari wrote the fatwa that um you have to leave endaloo because it's a danger for your for your religion. Yeah.

[00:15:21]>> So the hornachos as we see here in this another map that edif put up we see and it's by the river there. So the hornachos or the horneros are the people who live in that area.

[00:15:36]>> Exactly. Uh finally the Spanish uh uh authorities say you have to leave.

[00:15:43]>> Mhm.

[00:15:44]>> So they all come down to Morocco >> and because they have wealth they're able to live on their own >> and have their own village and they govern themselves and they rebuild >> uh they they rebuild >> Andelus there.

[00:16:01]>> Yeah. It's the it's the modern day. I don't I don't know if you've ever been to to Morocco to Rabbat.

[00:16:07]>> I have been to Rabbat. Yes. Kasba is a city within Rabbat or what?

[00:16:12]>> Yeah. The Kasba is the fortress.

[00:16:14]>> Let's get that.

[00:16:16]>> Yeah, you can Google it. It's uh the of Luda and that is the actual fortress at the edge of the of the river in between Rabbat and Sl. It's actually in >> which they built.

[00:16:29]>> They didn't. Yeah, they rebuilt it. It was already there from Yeah, it was already there from Almahad times, I believe, but they rebuilt it.

[00:16:37]>> And >> so they all went to that little uh kasba and they rebuilt it. And interestingly enough, there were other Andelusians already in that place.

[00:16:46]>> Yeah. Your paper mentions there were three three types of Andalucian, but and that the Horneros >> were the most Spanishized or >> Yeah. uh influenced in their dress and the Muslims were actually suspicious of them and didn't like their influence.

[00:17:03]>> Yeah, exactly. Um and this is also the reason why Asher was called in because on the other side of the river you had Mujadashi and Mujadashi uh he has a very he has an own an own backstory a very interesting one. Um but at one point these two communities started uh to wage war and was called in by because his family studied with him.

[00:17:28]Um this is also very interesting. One of the he actually asked Mara the student of to summarize his so we have him to thank for that. Um but the horneros they started fighting said that these horneros they are supplying food to the Christians and this is a mention that you can find in the Moroccan Arabic sources but it's also backed by the European sources because in this time you have the Spanish the Portuguese the Dutch the French and the English who keep archives because the sultanss in Morocco the especially well not Ahmed but the one after him his son Midan He actually wrote quite a lot with European uh with European royalty and European government. And in those documents, you can actually see that indeed uh there was Christian influence and there was something with food. Um they talk about I think I wrote it in the article but I can't remember it was barley or wheat or something. They were actually giving this to the Christians.

[00:18:29]Um so that's true. So he then asked to come and visit and so >> so these were not just any old Christians. These were crusaders.

[00:18:43]>> Well, you could call them crusaders, but that's not the historical term that we use in this time period.

[00:18:48]>> But in essence, they they were fighters.

[00:18:51]They're not just residents.

[00:18:53]>> Exactly. Exactly. You had a uh a Christian uh contingent to the north of Rabbat. and was fighting against them.

[00:19:03]>> Mhm.

[00:19:03]>> And these Christians, they were using the honacheros to get like a foothold because the honors they were neither this nor that. They were neither fully Islamically Moroccan or fully Islamically Spanish. So they were in between. Um and as I tried to argue in the article, they were sort of testing like, okay, if we can make it here Morocco, that would be okay, but if we can go back to Spain, that was al that would also be good. So there were neither here nor there. And then he actually went to the and he said that well indeed I saw them with my own eyes.

[00:19:35]Then he gave the feta that they should be killed.

[00:19:38]>> So they were at this point um unknown which side they're on. Exactly.

[00:19:44]>> Yeah. Yeah. They were doubting. They were definitely doubting.

[00:19:47]>> It's I mean it's a that the fact that they're kicked out by the Spaniards yet they still have an affinity towards them. Yeah. The Stockholm Stockholm syndrome, right?

[00:19:59]>> Yeah. Now tell me about Muhammad Alashi.

[00:20:02]Who who is he? What's his background?

[00:20:04]How does he become al- Mujah Muhammad Alashi?

[00:20:08]>> Yeah. The term is actually something we find in later sources. I think in his book I think 200 years. Yeah. 200 years later. Actually, I think he's the first one to to give him the >> Okay.

[00:20:22]>> It's the first historical source that we have calling him that. But Muhammad Aayashi he used to be a he's a scholar obviously. So back then all of the mujahun were scholars. Um, and was also a scholar, but he used to govern Esi, a city more to the south, modern day Casablanca, >> and he went and he was actually in in service of the of the dynasty of the Sun. And then he sort of became a renegade because in this time period, you have a lot of these um a lot of these individuals that start to take control over certain areas and the Moroccan state centered in Marrakesh had to like continuously extinguish all of these fires. You had rebellions in the south, Abu Mah Abu Mahali, I believe you had some in the north. You had some in the west. So the Sultan was constantly fighting, fighting, fighting. Muhammad was just one of these people. Um, but he, the reason why he's called Mujah is because he effectively fought the Portuguese and the English as well. M >> so and this was obviously a a um a danger to the state because normally the state should do this and if someone else does this then the state loses credibility. So he was also in this um very interesting political dilemma like what should I do? Should I fight the foreigners and then risk the sultan being mad at me or should I let the sultan do this or do it in the name of the sultan? Uh so this was really um difficult for him to do. I think I wrote something about that in the article as well how he did it. All right, tell us uh the the what he ended up doing.

[00:21:56]>> Um eventually he got killed. Um so eventually he got killed but he was fighting the he was fighting the Europeans. He was fighting the honachas and he was fighting the so he was fighting the threefront war which is very difficult. Uh but he was very effective against the uh against the Europeans.

[00:22:16]>> Let's get some pictures of uh the Kaspa.

[00:22:19]Um what is it? It's not a palace. It's um >> No, it's a fortress. You can say >> fortress. The Kaspa fortress in Morocco.

[00:22:26]So, let's get some pictures of that. But he's What is his logic to fight the Sadi?

[00:22:32]>> Um it's not necessarily that he wanted to fight the Saudi, but the Sadun started to fight him. Um in the article, we also see that the Sadun they try to exert some form of political control on him.

[00:22:48]>> Mhm. And obviously if you uh start fighting the Europeans and you get this uh you get this political or even Islamic credence then people will start to see you as a ruler and you will start to act like that. Uh but to be honest I don't have all of the details in my head and I have to take a look at the article again.

[00:23:07]>> Tell us about the Sadine. How did they who what's their origin? Who are they?

[00:23:11]How did they get their power etc. The Sadun is the Islamic dynasty that started in the uh 16th century and they're originally from Saudi Arabia from Yanb which is a city on the western plains.

[00:23:27]>> Yeah, they're hijazis >> and they came in somewhere in the 14th or 15th century >> and they actually overthrew the and how did they do this? Uh they did this because the Portuguese were taking over large uh areas of southern Morocco.

[00:23:44]>> Um and the uh the along with the Jazoulies, they actually fought a jihad against them. And the most famous one is Muhammad Jazuli, the author of the he >> they fought a jihad against who?

[00:24:00]>> Against the Portuguese.

[00:24:01]>> Is that Portuguese? Okay.

[00:24:03]>> Yeah. So the Jazoulies and the they worked together and they fought against the Portuguese >> and Muhammad Jazi he was actually one of the spiritual leaders that's actually fought and >> he was actually buried in this area but then when the uh relocated the capital from F to Marrakesh they dug up his grave and brought him to Marrakesh and that's why he's still buried today. They would also take his grave in the battle as a baraka and then all of a sudden the Portuguese would start to fear. Whenever they have this uh body of Imam Jazuli at the battlefield, the Portuguese would just be afraid because they started to believe this. So they took over from this they took over Morocco and then they eventually had their most famous sultan which was Ahmed Mansour and he actually expanded the Moroccan Empire into the south. He went all the way to Timbuktu where he actually captured Shikh Ahmed Baba one of the great Malika.

[00:24:58]>> I think his father was a student of Imab and Sheh Ahmed Baba was actually captured in Morocco and this is where he wrote his book nih which is a of a lot of Moroccan and >> what was the reason he captured him?

[00:25:16]>> Uh he was one of the influential scholars. So whenever you go to a city like maybe if you go to for example to Timbuktu and you want to take that place over then you take out all of the influential people and she Ahmed Baba was one of these influential people.

[00:25:28]>> Oh so he didn't um uh capture him to put him in jail. He just moved him.

[00:25:35]>> Yeah. He moved him.

[00:25:36]>> I see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Very good. Very good. All right. So now the Saudi are ruling. Now Muhammad Alashi is fighting the the the government. He's fighting the Portuguese and he's fighting the Hornicheros who are betraying their Muslim brothers by helping the Portuguese against uh sorry the Spanish against the Muslims.

[00:26:01]>> What then is the role of Ash in his fatw here?

[00:26:07]>> Well, there are a lot of scholars in this time and um the asks certain scholars. So he asks I think he he asks and he asks another one. I can't come up with the name, but it's in the article.

[00:26:22]So, he wants to know what to do with them because I think he's doubting like they're a Muslim.

[00:26:27]>> So, what shall I do?

[00:26:28]>> Yeah.

[00:26:28]>> And I think they talk about the fat of as well. And there's another scholar Abu Isa who's actually a very great scholar. He has a on the >> Yeah. And also on the which is the >> And I actually have them here and they're very good books. They're extremely good books. But Abu Isa, he actually says that you shouldn't kill them. And the reason I I try to argue is that there are also there are also like political motives.

[00:26:56]>> Yeah.

[00:26:57]>> Abu Isa is very close to the government.

[00:26:59]He actually lives in Marrakesh which is where the sultans are. A he actually left Fes because he was in disagreement with one of the sultans because he didn't want to sign the fetwa selling.

[00:27:11]So I try to argue this is all circumstantial evidence obviously but it seems that also maybe was pushed I don't want to say that it influenced his decision like 100% but maybe he was pushed towards this area. So he asks different fatwas and I have the fatwa of Abu Isa I actually have it in the article at the very back I tried to translate it and you can see from the reasoning and also from the question what the context was.

[00:27:40]So Ash was asked a fatwa fatwa what shall I do and he said well you should just kill them because they they are supplying uh food to the enemy.

[00:27:47]>> Yeah. And so uh the the result is uh of this battle is that the does he come out on top? He's got three battles here. So what does >> what are the results?

[00:28:00]>> Eventually die he he gets killed in one of the battles by the >> the government. He can't he he can't over overtake the government.

[00:28:08]>> No no he he couldn't. No. Yeah. And then uh but then the Hornicheros, what's their status?

[00:28:14]>> They sort of fade away in disappearance.

[00:28:16]Um they just sort of fade away. They're not like a political entity anymore and they just intermar in and everyone moves in and they move out and stuff like that.

[00:28:26]>> Yeah. Stuff like that. Exactly.

[00:28:28]>> Yeah. And then the the Spanish, how long do they survive there?

[00:28:33]Um well the Spanish they they leave but they do have a couple of northern possessions that they and some of them they still have up until this day.

[00:28:42]>> So they take Sipa which is the place where Kadyad was a judge.

[00:28:47]>> Y >> they take it over from the Portuguese.

[00:28:49]>> They get also Malia and some other islands as well. So the Spanish they do keep a hold but uh the presence is a little bit it's less than the Portuguese. the Portuguese Spanish on the western coast was a lot more. I think there were like eight cities that the Portuguese had.

[00:29:06]>> So this thing seems it's like really fluid. Uh Muslims last for 200 years in Andelus. Uh the Spanish and the Portuguese remain to having cities uh in Morocco.

[00:29:19]>> Yeah.

[00:29:19]>> Um so seems like it's very fluid. I guess that's how life is. That's how life always is. things are far more fluid than what the historian is able to tell us with words. And if you take only what the historian summarizes politically, then you end up uh sort of with a not realistic view of history cuz it's going to take a lot of study of history to realize how fluid everything always is. I mean, I think people don't even realize, don't even know the facts that after conquered endal and he lived out his life and his son died, the son sold it back to the Christians.

[00:30:03]>> You know, people don't even realize this, but he felt that their actual power had decreased.

[00:30:10]And so, um, if not sold it back, but sold other lands back. Uh, we could look that Ahmed, why don't you look that up?

[00:30:18]Salah's son, um, sold it back or he sold other lands back to be accurate. Okay.

[00:30:29]Um, he sold a lot of land back to the Christians if I'm not mistaken. Right.

[00:30:39]So look, so look that up. Uh but just to see how fluid things are and how land is sort of almost always coming and going between these people. Uh it's very interesting because we tend to have a fixed idea that this is now in Muslim control, meaning all of it, but it's never all of it. It's always parts of it.

[00:30:58]>> So seasonal. Yeah.

[00:31:00]>> Yeah. And if when you get that information, let us know.

[00:31:04]>> In Andalus when you have this uh border region, the fronta >> Mhm. Like on one side you definitely have Christians and on the other side you definitely have Muslims but in the middle you have like villages and pastures and lands and they could be like seasonally seasonally changed like in the winter it's the Muslims and in the summer it's the Christians and sometimes you have a village that is like 50/50. So there's a gray area as well and as a historian you're also confined to the sources that you have.

[00:31:29]It's very difficult uh to to get to a conclusion with the material that you have. Yeah.

[00:31:37]>> Uh that's also something you need to take into account.

[00:31:40]>> Yeah. The um speaking of now let's shift over to your situation in the Netherlands. Now you have what looks like a very nice YouTube channel explaining various muton in the Arab in the >> in Dutch.

[00:31:58]>> Dutch. Yeah.

[00:32:00]>> Okay. So I could make out the Arabic. I couldn't make out the um uh the rest of it. But it was a very good channel there. Uh do you guys have a strong daer?

[00:32:12]>> Um yes. So I would like to say that we have a strong da we have quite a lot of uh students of knowledge >> that actually properly studied with shuk in the Netherlands and also in Morocco.

[00:32:24]I think one of the things in the Netherlands that we have and that we're blessed with is that we had especially in the '9s a um I don't want to say a large group but maybe like eight or nine top Maliki scholars. When I say top it's like the best of the best. So I can give you the example of my so >> he's one of the top sh in Europe and also in Morocco and he actually lives here in the Netherlands. So just to give you a >> alkali a >> Yeah. Yeah. And he's one of the top sh he actually gave one of the I think you know the duly which they do in Morocco.

[00:32:58]>> Of course >> he was one of the scholars that gave a d I think two years ago. Um and Kamar he actually studied with for example Sharif Muhammad Bkari >> and Sharif Muhammad Bkali was maybe you know him but he was like a very big sheh in Tanja in Morocco. He had the the hab and he was a student of Ahmed Sadik.

[00:33:20]So the sins that we have in the Netherlands is quite strong. One of his other was but he's not well known outside of Morocco was abdied with like the top and and they were students of I think his brother or his son. Um so he is a top scholarhikhi he memorized thetas for example whenever we have class with him he would just spit out the as if it was water.

[00:33:49]>> Tell me about their their impact though given the fact that >> you have scholars but you have a country that has just small population of Muslims tend to be busy working. Sometimes you found that these scholars like only two three people benefit from them.

[00:34:06]>> Yeah that's true. Um I would like to say that actually produced like quite a lot of and also some um so he did his best but indeed relatively speaking it's not that much but alhamdulillah the uh the number of students that we have is good but he just um that's like his jihad that was his jihad like training uh youngsters different generations giving the giving them the classical mut um teaching them also not only like the the we call that the dry fick >> like the but also how you should deal with this and how you should give and how and how you should do dawa. I think he has a very fine radar to do this and and he taught us that >> that so one of the things that uh when a scholar or a student of knowledge comes back to the to the west >> the the scholarship is aiming here we're trying to bring our dean here >> and we're often times in environments >> that do cater to that probably the number one environment that caters to to that isotes because it's so closed off from the econom economy of the rest of the world.

[00:35:15]The corruption hasn't really seeped in.

[00:35:17]>> It's so far away. There's not a lot of foreigners and they're able to maintain a very high level of dean. When you come into a country where you have kufur and everything related to it, the gap is so great that believe it or not, I have to say this that sometimes the the less dean that a person has, the more they're able to actually be in communication with non-believers and be an easy entry point to them. Mhm.

[00:35:52]>> And we often times have a little bit of almost you could say a myopic or not in tune with reality vision.

[00:36:02]And we often times really look down upon this type of um I I would say lukewarm Muslim and we look down on it. It's something we're fleeing that we're trying to be devoted and and intense. But often times it's this tunch if we could say that of Muslims have a greater impact on the people than even the greatest and the most pious and the most scholarly.

[00:36:32]Yeah. So do you see that happening in the Netherlands?

[00:36:36]>> Yeah. Um in the Netherlands we have two large um Islamic communities. We have the the Moroccans uh and we have the Turks.

[00:36:48]>> Mhm. And all of these communities, both of these communities, they have their struggles. But we indeed see that um the second generation, the t the third generation um I don't want to say they are very far removed from the dean.

[00:37:02]That's also something that right.

[00:37:05]>> Yeah. Well, you can only judge by their behavior.

[00:37:08]>> Yeah. Judging from behavior, it's indeed um sometimes worrying.

[00:37:14]>> And then indeed, you need to dumb down the dawa a little bit. You need to take a look at where do you um where do you like where do you put emphasis?

[00:37:24]>> Mhm.

[00:37:24]>> Do you put emphasis on the do you put emphasis on? Do you put emphasis on? Do you put emphasis on the outwardly things? It always reminds me of the uh of the hadith that is in the ofkari and narrates it.

[00:37:44]>> Let me tell you uh uh yeah go ahead continue your point.

[00:37:48]>> Uh sorry. Yeah. So one of the most beloved deeds to Allah is the deeds that are consistent even if they are uh few.

[00:37:57]Um so this is a thing that you can use like focus on one thing that gives someone um spiritual meaning and then build on that because I've noticed it with other people and with myself as well. Um you cannot expect or ask I think that's too um utopic for someone to be like a perfect Muslim from day one. You need to build it up and it needs to start with the intellectual approach. You need to understand that the thing that we call Islam. It's not only a lifestyle. It's something you actually need to believe in. And if that belief nestle nestles in your mind, then the actions will follow.

[00:38:35]>> And not only that, you could paint a gradation of what to do, right? But in order to sometimes even be in the same place as other people who are coming from a world of disbelief. So the pe the the people in our community who have maybe fallen into or are regularly in places that we would actually discourage anyone going to. They end up in a position to meet these people in the first place.

[00:39:06]And >> it's not being permissive of of these discouraged or inadvisable and sometimes directly haram obviously but it is recognizing that there is there there is a wisdom that could come out of there and we we're taught directly from um Shik Muhammad Shabib he used to always mention he's remember just because something good comes out of something doesn't mean it's lawful but you understand that Allah has a wisdom I was just watched a clip the other day of two British guys on a little podcast chitchatting.

[00:39:44]>> Mhm. Mhm.

[00:39:45]>> One of them was trying to get out of alcohol.

[00:39:49]He was he was drinking.

[00:39:51]>> So he's wandering around the high street and he sees one of these shisha spots.

[00:39:57]>> Mhm.

[00:39:57]>> So he says, "Let me just check it out."

[00:39:59]and he ends up watching um African or whatever Africa Cup.

[00:40:06]>> Mhm.

[00:40:07]>> Sitting with a bunch of guys smoking shisha and just chitchatting right and that's like an environment if you take any you know masidgoing classes etc like you discourage anyone from going to a shisha spot. Mhm.

[00:40:25]>> Yet there is a wisdom in the gradation of haya and I think that's something that are trying to push everyone up but they have to realize that there is a wisdom for the existence of these other things.

[00:40:39]>> Yeah.

[00:40:40]>> Or that despite it being discouraged, unlawful in some cases highly discouraged, blameworthy, all that. But nonetheless, there for other people that would be a step up because this guy now he says, "Hold on a second. I hang I hung out with these guys. The whole night passed without me realizing."

[00:41:06]>> Mhm.

[00:41:06]>> He enjoyed himself with the shisha and key point, he didn't get drunk, right?

[00:41:11]Like that's a step up.

[00:41:13]>> Yeah.

[00:41:13]>> And now he has Muslim friends and now he has a spot to go to instead of the pub.

[00:41:20]>> Exactly. Yeah.

[00:41:21]>> So the the the discourageable inadvisable in the Muslim community may end up becoming something that's actually an improvement for someone who's uh coming from the the habits of >> kufur. It reminds me of a story, perhaps you know it, but it's about this uh it's in the Ottoman uh literature. You talk about this very old sheh >> and this old sheh used to visit like a street that was known for prostitution >> and um there were like houses there that he would visit and people would see the sheh entering this house and people know what they do in this house. Uh and he would sit there all night and leave up until the morning and he would do this like for one year, two year, three until he died. And then when he died, the people of the village said, "We're not going to praise Janza because he used to visit all of these prostitutes."

[00:42:08]>> And then these prostitutes, they went out of the house and they said, "You're all lying because you don't know what he was doing with us." And then then they asked these prostitutes, they said like, "But what what is he doing then?" He said, "He would come in and he would ask us how much would you earn this night?"

[00:42:24]And we would say x amount of u I don't know what money they have, but he would give it to them. And he said, "Okay, this is what you want. Then here it is."

[00:42:32]But now spend the night listening to a hadith and Quran and I'll teach you how to pray.

[00:42:37]>> And obviously the ri is a form of >> and he didn't want to he didn't want to tell other people because he was afraid of >> and people would and his family would say like tell the people what you're doing because people will start to think that you are doing this stuff. They said no because I'm doing I'm doing this for Allah. So indeed you would you would outwardly you would say obviously it's a different situation than what you than what you said but outwardly you would say this is haram but if it's one of the then he has I don't know if you can say this but he has different types of stuff that is for us could be haram for him >> and the other way around because he's one of the maybe there's a wisdom of him being somewhere reminds me of a of a person that we have in this neighborhood and he's like a proper he's like the type >> and he would to like bars and disco takes discos and he would just sit with the youngsters. They would be they would be drinking and smoking. He would just sit with them. He wouldn't talk to them about the dean. He would just sit with them ask them about how their night was et and obviously when you see like a man with a and a very big bed and he's coming into these into these pubs and into these clubs and he says how are you? Are you enjoying yourself? And obviously there's a little bit of shame and that's it. He would just leave them and he would do this every weekend.

[00:43:55]every weekend and there are a lot of people a lot of youngsters that actually because of that they stepped one step back and they didn't go to those places anymore.

[00:44:03]>> Yeah. I mean it's uh it's a type of where the the the scholars of our dean and the imams are constantly pushing everyone up which is where we're supposed to be going. But there has to be a fifth of how we interact with the realities of the gradient as I mentioned where you're not being permissive of it. You may not even being promoting of it.

[00:44:28]>> Mhm.

[00:44:29]>> And maybe but maybe you need to think to we need to probably think twice before we dismiss it all. And we also have to think twice of who we're talking to.

[00:44:41]So for example, we have certain youth in the community who are young students of knowledge. They attend, they're doing good. For them to attend certain events in the community would be a step down for them. It would it would >> it would bring them down. They're like Madrasa students. They're >> Yeah.

[00:45:02]>> Okay.

[00:45:02]>> But for others, it would be a great step up, right? It would be There are some others maybe they're not not Muslim. Maybe they're Muslim, they don't never attend the masid, they're so u distant from the community that certain other events that you'd frown upon for one person to attend to, you'd highly it would be great for another person to attend to.

[00:45:23]>> Mhm.

[00:45:24]>> So that's why I'm thinking that you may not endorse something, you may not promote it, but you know that it does have a role and there is a wisdom in its existence.

[00:45:35]>> Yes. You know and that's the type of when when you look at what is the Muslim impact in Europe I never aside from England I don't think of any scholars at all right I don't think of D but the impact is happening through like football players that's just seems to me like this the soccer players are the the most visible Muslims I don't see them >> they're in this gray area yeah they're in this gray area they're it's not because they do IA or because they do the the the the fick or the or the hadith or the tass or anything, they're popular. They have a a following >> and if they do anything related to Islam, it becomes popularized.

[00:46:17]>> Yeah.

[00:46:17]>> And people can start talking about it because it's not just an old imam in the mosque doing something. No, this is who's a famous Muslim like man. It's money.

[00:46:28]>> Yeah.

[00:46:29]>> And then it's then it's cool because money is cool. He's mus he's muscular.

[00:46:33]he plays football and everyone loves him. Even the non-Muslim people, they say he's a good football player. They're very um praiseworthy of him. Um so obviously this this has some benefits indeed. Yeah.

[00:46:43]>> Yeah. So it's uh it's a very interesting um thing to think about because we often times can we're so focused on you know trying to improve ourselves trying to study trying to surround ourselves with good influences that we sometimes lose focus that some of the things that we're a running away from and trying to destroy or or eliminate from the community are actually the the entryways >> for a lot of people to enter into the community >> uh which is uh really interesting and and in the old days >> I don't think that existed in the time of ash for example you had a black and white you were a Christian or a Muslim >> yeah yeah right >> yeah yeah definitely and societies were really segregated >> I can remember one of the things that I read in the historical sources was that when fes for example >> like foreigners were not allowed in fest and whenever a foreigner I think it was an an English guy he wrote a book I think it's called his travels in Morocco and he said that whenever I walked into a Muslim city, I would always hear and he would translate it then in English.

[00:47:51]They would just they would just shout at him. They did not >> they did not even permit his existence or his presence in the city >> and and often times that was because 95% of you were also in the crusader army too, >> right? That was the mentality is that >> there wasn't a middle that you you lived with. It was either you're a crusader against us, right, and we're fighting against you, right? It's like only two camps.

[00:48:19]>> Yeah. One of the very first people that started studying Arabic was Nicolas. He was one of these people that lived in the in the low countries and he actually went to F and he wrote a book about this. He actually went to F and he had to disguise himself as a Muslim.

[00:48:33]>> Yeah.

[00:48:33]>> This was two generations before this was two generations before. And then the scholars I think his name was imiti he actually wrote a fatwa he said there is a intruder in f who is taking knowledge but he's actually not Muslim we don't know who this person is but take a look at if you have strange people in your then report him the fatwa is it's in his >> what's the status with right-wingers in the Netherlands >> yeah it's a very interesting bridge because um the right-wingers are quite popular Um it's very difficult but we have for example one of the extreme right parties like the most famous extreme right party uh one of the I think it was actually his number two. So you had the top guy and then the second guy that second guy started writing a book against Islam and then when he was writing the book he actually discovered that no Islam is actually a good religion and he end he ended up be becoming Muslim. So, what's his name again?

[00:49:33]>> And we published Yeah, we published the book. Um, I can I can send you the link.

[00:49:37]And we published it in English as well.

[00:49:39]It was obviously in uh in written. Let me just take >> Yeah, I heard I heard this story a long time ago. We should interview him.

[00:49:47]>> Yeah, definitely. I can give you his number. You can talk about him and you can uh call him. And he actually wrote a book uh trying to bash uh to bash Islam, but then he just wounded up winded up being Muslim. Uh, so now >> you have Yoram van Clavven >> Yoram van >> yes I'll I'll send the link. Let me get it here.

[00:50:13]>> I'll send you the link. Uh, >> wonderful.

[00:50:16]>> Yeah, let's let's let's meet him and talk.

[00:50:18]>> Yeah, definitely. I'll give you the number and you can invite him. I think he also went on that podcast, the the Paul Williams, the blogging theology.

[00:50:24]>> Mhm.

[00:50:26]He also went on his podcast and it's a very interesting book because he actually uh wrote a I think two chapters and then contacted us and he sent us the chapters and I read it and my first in my first uh thought was >> he's just trying to mess around. I think he's trying to infiltrate us >> and he doesn't really mean this. That was my first uh my first thought.

[00:50:49]>> But eventually that's an amazing story.

[00:50:52]What kind of backlash did he face then?

[00:50:54]Ed if put this picture up if >> yeah or what any pictures of them >> maybe you should maybe you should ask him that because I don't know what type of backlash he received but he was very popular at one point we had all of these interviews especially from the Christian community because they said how can you leave Christianity and become Islam because he was the guy that actually introduced a bill in parliament to ban the Quran >> cheap >> amazing amazing I mean any inter any interaction ends up being good if you're dealing with the truth It's hard to run away from it.

[00:51:26]>> Exactly. And one of the things that I I remember him telling me is that um the seed of Islam was was actually planted by the following. He had like when he was young, he had like an Egyptian friend and then when he would go to his home, he would see like Quran like the calligraphy and back then he didn't know what that meant but he always found it really beautiful >> and he said that thing stayed with me.

[00:51:49]that small little thing stayed with me even when I was bashing and hating Islam and and passing uh laws in parliament trying to pass laws in parliament. He said I always had this sort of like a secret crush on the calligraphy.

[00:52:01]>> So >> there are some people I don't know it's not many people but there are some people that say that the calligraphy is also haram but >> calligraphy that's a fat that's new to me.

[00:52:12]>> No on yeah there are some people that say very small brand of people that say the calligraphy on the walls is haram.

[00:52:18]What's the reason for that?

[00:52:20]>> Yeah, I don't know. They >> had that on his home.

[00:52:24]>> Yeah, obviously I disagree with this, but they think it's Quran shouldn't be put on walls. It should be read something like that.

[00:52:32]>> No, the you know the uh words of Allah subhana wa ta'ala are a um >> the word itself whether it's uttered or written.

[00:52:44]>> Yeah. In Morocco when they memorize the Mhm.

[00:52:48]>> When they have the low, they have like a wooden plank. There's a special type of ink that comes from the tree.

[00:52:55]>> And when they write the the hub, they would wash the ink and then drink it for the bottom.

[00:53:01]>> Edible. Edible ink.

[00:53:03]>> Yeah. It's edible. It's it's it's natural ink. So, it comes from a tree and they mix it with water and then they start writing. And when they when they clean up the with water, the water spills down and they would drink it >> for the baraka.

[00:53:16]>> Yeah. the the the words of Allah written dissolved is a protection by the words of Allah and there's not necessary to make a by saying >> the meaning of Allah's words not at all >> so uh your book on when is it coming out >> um it's 99.9% finished Uh and what we want to do is we want to launch it after I receive the PhD because I have the defense on the 7th of December.

[00:53:54]>> Mhm.

[00:53:55]>> Um so then we have the scientific book about Asher. And then we also have the actual explanation of the poem. Uh it's actually published in Dutch. This is the one. So this is the one in Dutch. Uh and we're going to >> put Bring it back a little bit so we can see. Back up. Back up. Yeah. Right in front of your face. K.

[00:54:13]>> Oh, like this. And what does it say there?

[00:54:18]Yeah, which means the guide.

[00:54:20]>> The guide. Okay. Good. Good. Good.

[00:54:23]>> Yeah. And then it should function as a >> guide. Good. Very good. And you're going to translate this into English.

[00:54:30]>> Yeah, it's already been transl. Okay.

[00:54:33]Good. How can we How can somebody get it >> in the future? Um we have um yeah we can buy we're going to put it on Amazon obviously but we have a link where you can register uh and receive a notification when the book actually comes out.

[00:54:46]>> Amazing.

[00:54:47]>> And obviously we're going to give you a copy and we would really like you to actually talk about it to teach it uh to read excerpts from from and give your honest critical review on it.

[00:54:58]>> We have one of the Asha students right next to me here.

[00:55:02]>> Mah. Did he memorize anything from from Ibnash? We all studied and memorized it.

[00:55:08]>> I probably have to touch up on it because it was about 20 years ago, >> but he's just memorized it just now.

[00:55:14]>> And very good >> D Mustafa and anyone goes to D Mustapa, we now have a burgeoning circle of Madaka that's passed >> almost a dozen students of Madakis now at different levels. And Sheikh Muhammad Omar, >> he's Sudanese.

[00:55:30]Um he's now the there and he's like firmly established. It's not like Shik's coming and going. They had problems with Shik coming and going.

[00:55:37]>> Mhm.

[00:55:38]>> But now he's established there.

[00:55:41]>> Yeah.

[00:55:41]>> We should get them the book. They should definitely get some of the books and um and read it and when they come back to the rest of the English speaking countries, they should definitely uh promote it >> for sure. So we I look forward to that and make sure you keep in touch with me when the book is when it's on Amazon.

[00:55:57]>> Yeah.

[00:55:58]>> And and and all any of your books. But uh thank you for coming on and telling us the story about the uh ordineros.

[00:56:06]>> It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. It's my honor.

[00:56:09]>> Thanks again for coming on.

[00:56:16]>> All right, there you have it, folks. So we the the sound from the TV is very weak. So uh had to put on these bulky headphones and you guys couldn't hear any of the interview, right? Okay.

[00:56:27]So, we got to just we we basically just have to get a little speaker. That's all. A plug-in speaker. Uh let's take uh we have a few minutes only for Q&A.

[00:56:37]Um you can scan the QR code to learn more about um this book and um and the the guiding helper mid al. But we have a few minutes for some Q&A right now.

[00:56:59]who has something to say everyone. How's everything going?

[00:57:05]Yeah. Do you see this point that I'm making? It's an important point because as we try to improve ourselves, we really can't commit the error of thinking in such a manner or speaking in such a manner that also drives away everybody that really we were in their place too or we could have been in their place. So, it's really hard to do. We have to be conscious of it. And if we're students of knowledge, we're aware that you could be conscious of something and learn it. Conscious of your ignorance and your mistake.

[00:57:40]And it's to not be so dismissive of things that are in the gray area or even slightly entering into the minor sins like to be so dismissive of it or to slam on it. uh maybe worthy for Shabb that are already born into Islam practice I mean doing well thriving and for them to do this type of thing would be a downstep right but there are other people we have to realize that that's their it's a low barrier of entry into those things it's easy for them to go to those things and that may be their first exposure to the dean um so being one of these examples Like none of the Shabb that attend our gathering should go to those types of things. You're wasting your Ramadan.

[00:58:32]It's not for shopping and eating. But that's for like a select 1%. If you think about it, there are other people that you would want them to go there because that would be a low barrier of entry exposure to Islam and Muslims, especially non-Muslims who would go to such uh go to such a thing, right? Or people who are totally on the fringe of the community. It's like really exciting for them to go and it may be next to a masid associated with Ramadan. So we have to realize the world from the viewpoint of people who are far from what we're striving to. But we have to also be very clear that it's not necessarily watering down our religion because we're not promoting these things. We're just recognizing that this may be a point of entry. A lot of the pub guys in England and the what they call the soccer hooligans. Remember I had an interview with the brother and he said, "Yeah, that's like my family, right? This so-called soccer hooligans or football hooligans. Their life is between dropping out of school, getting blue collar jobs, the biggest day of the week is the the game, the pub is their third space, home, work pub, that's all they know, right?"

[00:59:48]Uh well, they also need guidance, right?

[00:59:52]They need guidance.

[00:59:54]And a lot of times to see a Muslim soccer player may be like only non news Muslim that he sees.

[01:00:05]So we just have to keep that stuff in mind uh before being too dismissive of things that are lower on the gradient than what we're shooting for. And that's what they say. You could be strong on yourself, harsh on yourself, but don't be so harsh on others and don't be uh so judgmental uh with others because you never know that person that you you know are looking down on may be an easier entry point for a non-Muslim to to to be exposed to Islam than a than a shikh or a very pious person who's like there's there's no relation at all. We don't relate with anything.

[01:00:45]Um, closely related to this is one of the duat I'm not going to mention his name because I don't know if he told this story publicly, but may Allah have mercy on him because he passed away. When I asked him what was his first exposure to Islam, he said, "The guy who deals me weed." Guy who sold him marijuana. It's illegal back in the day, but that's the person who his first Muslim exposure was through him. And it's not to say that obviously that's the number one thing we're going to condemn.

[01:01:20]Selling drugs, selling marijuana, opening a confectionary or dispensary or whatever or smoke shop, right?

[01:01:32]Allah guides how he wishes in the way he wishes. Even if we have to condemn it, we realize now that's like an extreme example because nobody should be doing that. No Muslim should be doing that.

[01:01:44]But there are middle things, the gradients where it's 10 makru things combined, right? That render it overall you got to stay away from it.

[01:01:58]That's what we're that's that's the perspective I'm trying to give here.

[01:02:03]Yeah.

[01:02:06]Economics says people for whom the system isn't working are more amendable to an alternative way of life. Yeah. And I mean one of the things this guy said is that where else do I find sit around with a bunch of guys? Like where else can I sit around with some regular people? So if I if I don't go to the pub, where is it?

[01:02:27]Right? And in his mind it was the only found place he spot was the shisha spot. For us we're going to say something different.

[01:02:35]Right. But for him, I mean, if if he came out, hang out with us, it's a bit it's too far off, right? He could probably last with us for 20 minutes before he'd get bored, right?

[01:02:48]And what do we have to talk about would probably not be much these people? Allah wills to guide them.

[01:02:56]So through whom will he guide them?

[01:02:57]Through someone similar to him. What >> in Islam?

[01:03:06]It' be interesting to have a conversation with Jorim Van Clever.

[01:03:11]Recently, he released a new book uh titled Hidden History: 30 Untold Stories of Islam in the West. There you go.

[01:03:18]That's the the topic. So, anyone put the message in the the live stream chat or work chat and tell them that we need to have JVK on. Sure. So that's what they call him or right his name JVK with to talk about his book hidden history right that's good and and edif did you find anything about Salah's son selling or wanting to sell land back he didn't do it so yeah so okay it was uh one of the books I read a long time ago by ph newbie >> cities cities. Yeah.

[01:04:05]So, I don't know. Maybe he maybe.

[01:04:11]Yeah. Who knows? We'll have to look up.

[01:04:13]I have to look up where I got where I saw that from.

[01:04:25]All right. What else do we have here?

[01:04:27]Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:32]What's that? Let's see.

[01:04:35]Hidden history, 30 untold stories of Islam in het west.

[01:04:41]Yeah. So, put that book on the cover there.

[01:04:45]Put it on the stream. You recently said to leave video games. What if they are sim simulations that teach practical skills a man would use to provide and protect his family? So when I speak about video games, it's almost like just symbolic for the type of and I think I mentioned that in the that actual quote, but symbolic as in the the type of person who just is playing video games, he's 30 years old and he lives in his mom's basement.

[01:05:12]That's like that type of person, which is symbolic of somebody who is um really not trying in life. It's not not successful. Anybody could be not successful. Me and you tomorrow could be not successful. We have to be very careful how how we talk about anybody because if you look down upon somebody, Allah may give you a taste of that to teach you a lesson. So, but I'm talking about the the the general stereotype of the video game. It's the number one waste time waster, right? Today, chess is not the the time waster today. Um chess.com is a booming website since um co but chess chess is not the issue back in if you read the books they talk about shatarange big time waster today no one waste their time on shatar today someone playing shatter chess it's better for him at least you're with your mind you're with another human even that people just do it online but video games becomes like the hallmark or the trademark of time wasting So that's how I refer to it and not a a blanket direct statement about every single person who plays video games.

[01:06:27]It's just the hallmark symbol of time wasting. That's all. Is there a minimum level of physical fitness? Of course to avoid disaster diet. Strength and skills an able-bodied Muslim must have without which he would be sinful, deficient, or neglectful in his dean. Yes, it's just the physical fitness where we avoid se knowing self harm. I'm looking these days and a guy's putting a spread of natural food that you can't see the end of it and he tells you, boom, that's like 2,000 calories. And then he puts like very small bit of processed, sludgy, gudgy food, right? And it's just like very little amount and it's equivalent to the healthy food. I mean, we see all these all over Instagram these days.

[01:07:18]One of the latest fads, but I think it's a good fat because it's a visual comparison of what I could have eaten and been healthy. All this versus this small amount of garbage.

[01:07:29]Let's just put that. Yeah. Yeah. Edifu.

[01:07:32]You put both of them. Yeah. Just share the screen. And look at this one.

[01:07:37]Look at this one. So, you can't eat all of all that fruit and vegetables on the side there, right? You can't finish it. And he's got a cut of salmon there, too. And he's got some milk.

[01:07:52]Whatever. That premier of protein drink.

[01:07:54]He's got papayas.

[01:07:56]He's got blueberries.

[01:07:59]Are those blueberries? Yeah, it looks I don't know. Just pretty big for blueberries. Grapes. All that fruit. No, nobody's going to sit and I think the picture's a little bit off in the sense that nobody eats that much rice, right?

[01:08:12]In a day or even in a week.

[01:08:14]>> That's rice. But he's just trying to show you the difference, right? We got to get into this cuz if you especially if you're living in the West, if you're living in the in the United States, everything is messed up. And and if let's go to the next picture, which was actual food. This is more realistic.

[01:08:37]This one. Look at this one. Okay.

[01:08:42]So, here you have three pieces of fried chicken. Not even that big.

[01:08:50]Is equivalent to all that actual chicken that you could eat and cook in your in your home or in the oven or whatever.

[01:08:57]Then he's got four pieces of steak.

[01:08:59]That's insane.

[01:09:01]equivalent calories to one rotten, sludgy, goopy cheeseburger, right? And then he has how many pieces of fish? Can't even count them in the image versus two junky filled with preservatives, terrible bread, boiled in oil or or fried in oil uh fish fillets.

[01:09:28]I don't even know why the fish fillet is on any menu. Who who gets that? Right.

[01:09:33]So, yeah. One time a guy he he needed to eat, so we stopped off at um a rest stop and he asked the guy, "The fish fillet, do you guys fry it in the same thing that you fry the meat?" He goes, "No, we just pull it out of the freezer and put it in the microwave." I was like, "That's even worse, right? It is not even hiding the fact that it's just frozen junk that came from who knows where. And it's what they now call go slop that they're killing everybody with.

[01:10:12]Empty non-nutritious calories that make you just fall asleep afterwards. And it's a bad sleep. You almost feel depressed, right? We got to figure out what to do for Juma. We have to figure it out. We cannot keep this up.

[01:10:26]Going to the to to eat fast food every Jama burgers and wings. Juice time. Oh, >> hey. Is it open yet or not? Yeah.

[01:10:41]>> But when's it open?

[01:10:49]>> You serious? Your family owns it? That's great.

[01:10:53]experience.

[01:10:54]>> Wow.

[01:11:07]>> Wow. And so tell me what he says.

[01:11:12]>> No, sorry. Inside. What is he What is he selling on the inside of just juice?

[01:11:40]Yeah, the fried food is addictive.

[01:11:45]All right, what else? We got one more question before we we go on today. And um um I have an interview with Shikh Abdullah Muhammad Ali and I know I'm going to get a flood of messages.

[01:12:00]You know Shik Abdullah Muhammad Ali has known him for almost 30 years now, right? You don't just throw away 30-year relationship.

[01:12:11]Okay? And I know they're going to say, "Oh, he supports this that and the other." Do I? Let me be honest with you.

[01:12:19]I don't follow everyone what they say. I don't follow all the posts. I'm almost fully off of social. I have my own social media, not my my stuff. I have my own fake burner accounts that I follow stuff that has nothing to do with Islamic Dawistine, you know. And so, no, I don't keep tabs on any dowistine except what people send me. I don't keep tabs on it. My personal my burner YouTube, my burner uh Twitter had nothing to do with DA related stuff.

[01:12:54]I'm not in those wars anymore. I'm not in it.

[01:12:58]Yeah. You want to you want to stay in the field, okay? Have a relationship with Allah and don't get drowned in the he said, she said. I call it the high school back in my day like the high school atrium.

[01:13:11]All the walkers would get to school early, right? And we'd all be in the middle of the atrium, everybody. Like hundreds of people in the high school atrium and outside before the doors opened for like 20, 30 minutes if you're early. Maybe less than that. Well, not never 30 minutes. Less than that.

[01:13:32]They were just talking, oh, he did this, he did that. Gossiping care, right? So, when I look at Twitter and stuff, I feel this the same a lot. Really similar.

[01:13:40]Just bunch of gossip. Oh, did you see what he said about the sifhat? Oh, did you see what he said about this? Oh, did you see so and so dunked on so and so?

[01:13:48]Like you guys think this is da? I'm I'm wondering gee.

[01:13:58]>> Yeah, it's it's Yeah, there's a lot of just that's empty. It's not going to benefit you on. You want to benefit on make your point by putting a post explaining it. Now, someone's going to say, "Oh, that's not going to get views.

[01:14:12]You need to dunk on somebody to get views. You need conflict. I agree.

[01:14:18]But certain things we have a filter. I agree that Duncan conflict bites will get you the views. But if I have to do something unlawful, discouraged in order to get views, then I don't get the views. Simple as that. I forfeit the views. Simple. That's how simple it is, right? Uh it's like oh somebody is saying like we need a Muslim to win the Oscar. You know how many haram things he's got to do to get the Oscar? So you're saying that we'll never have a Muslim with the Oscar? Said no. We why do we need that? Right. The answer is no. We won't we would may never have a Muslim with the Oscar. How is that a loss? Allah sent his prophet so Muslims can win Oscar. Is that our purpose in life and our mission in in in life?

[01:15:05]So if there is something that is unlawful in order to get to that level, then I guess we don't get to that level, what's the big deal? That's not why we're we exist. That's not why we're sent, right?

[01:15:30]But then again, again, I say I go back to say that There possibly are some youth that's the only thing that gets their attention, right? This idea of a feud. It does get people's attention and maybe it's their inroad into getting exposure. It's all about the inroad to getting exposure. So yeah, I don't like it personally. I know that the sh that I look up to and whom I go to for advice and counsel and I consider them my sh, they don't like me to be involved in those things.

[01:16:04]So I don't I avoid it. Okay.

[01:16:10]All right. I personally would try to avoid it and wouldn't want to be part of it even just to honor the sh that that's their advice. You know that they want you to follow a path. Give the da let Allah take your word but don't engage in you know these kinds of uh rage baiting pmics.

[01:16:33]lemics, yeah, is one thing, but the low the the the sort of low level of mudsmearing, mudslinging, not that great.

[01:16:44]How can we remain strong in seeking our ambitions for both Dean and Duna?

[01:16:50]Oh, you're only as ambitious as you have desire.

[01:16:55]And desire is fed by exposure.

[01:16:59]It's fed by exposure.

[01:17:01]Who do you want to be like? What do you want to be like? Keep reminding yourself. In this day and age, you you have to intentionally continue to remind yourself of certain things, of what you want to be like. All right, we got to go now. We're going to hop over to lampost.

[01:17:16]If you want to I don't know if it's live or it's um recorded, but we'll find out right now.

[01:17:25]for you today.

[01:17:55]Not sure Allah.

[01:18:15]Oh Allah.

[01:18:22]All the bed.