Energy Crisis Isn't Over! The Dangerous Shift No One Talks About - Trader Ferg

本站添加: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]storage is at a record low. So, they're going to have to um they're going to have to compete [music] with Asia to get that storage back up at a time when Asian demand ramps now as well.

[00:00:12]And so, whereas a lot of people just point to Europe and say, "Oh, Qatar was a minor part of [music] their LNG mix, they'll be fine."

[00:00:20]kind of misses the fact that unlike unlike the Russian crisis, a lot of that energy was just rerouted globally. Like it did [music] still a lot of it still ended up in how much a lot of the oil still ended up in India.

[00:00:38]>> [music] >> Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of Triangle Investor Interviews.

[00:00:49]I'm your host Lucien Wulkowicz, and before I announce my guest, just a quick reminder of a disclaimer. This interview and all my interviews are not a recommendation to buy or sell any shares, products, or services. Always do your due diligence and consult with your financial advisor. Today, we are speaking with Trader Ferg, a known name from the social media, investor, full-time trader, and hunting for the most hated sectors in the market just like we all. Ferg, great to have you in the show. Welcome, my friend.

[00:01:19]Thank you for having me back on the show. I always love love chatting. Same here. I always enjoy our sessions, and we usually cover commodities, and today we will we will do the same. I have a lot of commodities to cover, so let's see what we we will manage. Maybe I will start I usually start with uranium, gold, or silver, but this time I will I will start with coal.

[00:01:42]I want to hear your take. I know your take on coal. However, I want to see if it's changed in the meantime. You highlighted the renewed interest in coal despite ESG pressure. What was the market still misunderstanding about coal's role in the energy mix over the next few years?

[00:02:01]Sure. So, yeah, this has been what I've been really digging into lately because there's been awful lot of noise around the war, and so I always like to try and like what what are some stuff I can really wrap my head around and know that are knowable, and they're going to have effects for years to come. And the ones that really stood out to me was when uh Ross Laffen got hit, and that um took 12.8 million tons of LNG um off the market, and I'd kind of dug into just how like those LNG trains are absolute works of art.

[00:02:38]Like they're essentially custom builds.

[00:02:40]There's only um one factory that um produces them.

[00:02:45]That's got a a a backlog out to 2028, and it's just going to be it's going to be very difficult to replace them. And um even if you take the conservative say that they're back up and running in in 3 years, and then you've got also the delayed Qatar expansions, and then you've got the fact that not a single loaded LNG carrier has left um has transited the Hormuz Strait since the Iran war kicked off. So, once you piece all that together, there's actually some really interesting takeaways because for people that aren't aware, Qatar was like the big player in um fixed destination contracts, and they're also by far the lowest cost producer in the whole LNG curve. And LNG the whole market was looking to push into a supply glut for the next um the next few years.

[00:03:39]And that supply glut was quite important because with um a glut of supply comes low prices, and so there was quite a lot of demand baked in that it was going to be able to capture, and particularly in emerging Asia cuz once that um emerging Asia is really price sensitive on energy, and so you need the LNG price to come down to be kind of to eat into what would be coal.

[00:04:04]A lot of the emerging Asian economies were even putting on a bit of um few subsidies cuz LNG is cleaner, a bit of the environment. They can um and um yeah, they were they were um there was quite a bit of uptake in it, and that led to like a I think quote I put in my piece was that 80% of LNG demand out to 2030 was going to come from Asia.

[00:04:31]And so, that's is I just sent out a chart in my latest finds that with what's happened, like what you can actually pencil in, like the the two trains that are destroyed, um the pushback and both um the expansions with Qatar um pushbacks of I estimated a year, then the market flips to a deficit for 3 years, and so that whole price is going to get held up. And so, the unlike oil where you get you have prices kick off, you have demand destruction. With in Asia, you get an awful lot of um of gas to coal switching.

[00:05:11]And so, that's was the kind of and and coal was already thermal coal in particular was already coming out of sort of a bottoming phase. And it'd been um it had a rough rough sort of 2025 um with some of the high cost producers having to sort of dial back production. And so, it was already starting to pop up its head before this all happened, and now having um 20% of global LNG um shut in behind the strait, you've also got quite a long time for it to be brought back on. So, even if all the trains uh brought on perfectly, they've got to be brought on sequentially, and it's going to take the better part of six six weeks. Um and at the moment, since not a single carrier has been out in the transit the strait, I believe of the ones that are behind the strait, the majority of them are full. I think there's like 14 that are full, and there's only two that are empty. And so, they can only fill those two up the storage tanks on site before they have to shut the train down again.

[00:06:13]They're they're starting trying to restart two trains at the moment.

[00:06:17]Of um and sorry, yeah. It's not really any point.

[00:06:21]>> No, no, no. Great talking to you. I could talk this for like an hour. Great great overview.

[00:06:25]Really, I'm glad you mentioned thermal coal. I wanted to stop here. Really, you mentioned demand appears to be rebounding. So, is the short-term [clears throat] supply shock is this a short-term supply shock, or we are really seeing a structural maybe reversal in in the coal demand?

[00:06:44]Yeah.

[00:06:45]Like my my big takeaway is that there's a awful lot of these emerging like some of the poorer side of Asia, whether it's Philippines, the obvious ones are like the Pakistan that they're they're done with LNG now. This is the second time they've been shafted.

[00:07:02]They went in 2022, they went a full year without getting a single LNG. They just got outbid every time cuz it's how the the market's evolved in LNG is US has been the big player that's rapidly expanded, and all their contracts are um they are flexible.

[00:07:20]Um they're like people can it's essentially flexible destination. You can go to the highest bidder. So, at any point, if someone outbids, it'll turn around. Even mid mid-voyage, it'll turn around. We had that recently, like a whole lot of um LNG carriers on the way to Europe. Um Asia shows it's prepared to um bid higher, and they just turn around. And so, interestingly, like we can get to Europe, but I believe 80% of theirs their LNG is now flexible, which means if Asia if things in Asia get really tight in the likes of the wealthier Asian countries, the likes of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea are willing to pay up, then there is a bidding war has to take place for that um flexible destination.

[00:08:06]But for the poorer ones, they're not going to play this game again. They're they're I believe a lot of them are going to be done with LNG now because what why would you enter into a system where um your energy security is based on if you can win a bidding war with wealthier countries? Yeah. Like it's just it's it's it's makes no sense. This is the second time it's like what what's the saying? Like fool me once, um shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Like I've um and a lot of these countries have now been through it, and they're going through it again.

[00:08:36]And for as reliable um a provide a um producer as Qatar is, I don't think it's going to be able to regain that reputation now.

[00:08:49]Um there will always be um perceived risks now. And so, as a result, you can draw some pretty clear conclusions. One, the immediate beneficiary is thermal coal. Um from there, solar makes an awful lot of sense, and China's pumping it out very cheaply. The the energy demand profile in Asia is really well suited to um solar because you've got your peak um air conditioning demand in the middle of the day, solar um generation profile is in the middle of the day, and then yeah, longer term if they have um if they have the money, then nuclear.

[00:09:25]And you're already seeing Taiwan and Japan um trying to rush restarts.

[00:09:32]Yeah, again, good overview. Ferg, uh Europe has moved away from Russian gas. Actually, not not 100% still, but in a big way. Uh has Europe actually solved its energy dependency problem, or just replaced one vulnerability with another?

[00:09:51]Yeah, the latter. It's replaced one with another. I think um whereas it is nowhere near as bad or nowhere near as much of a shock to Europe as it was in 2022. There's some real parallels that I see. One is the storage is at a record low. So they're going to have to They're going to have to compete with Asia to get that storage back up at a time when Asian demand ramps now as well.

[00:10:17]And so whereas a lot of people just point to Europe and say oh Qatar was a minor part of their LNG mix, they'll be fine.

[00:10:24]One misses the fact that unlike unlike the Russian crisis, a lot of their energy was just rerouted globally. Like it had still a lot of it still ended up in a lot of the oil still ended up in India. If anything it ended up back in Europe because it just got taken to India, processed and then they bought the and the diesel from so they did actually find its way into Europe just with a a fairer margin.

[00:10:47]But this this is quite different in the fact that that um it has been locked. Like that energy is not getting out. Like that LNG is locked. First quite similar you can talk about that as well if you want. But um Sure. Yeah, you Europe's found itself in a spot where it's hasn't got the storage it requires. So it's going to have to quite aggressively um try and bid for LNG contracts or LNG cargoes moving forward into this system that I was pointing out where when they're flexible destinations Asia will be bidding for them as well going into their peak cooling seasons as Asian demand really ramps into June and July um for air con demand largely.

[00:11:34]And um and they also have this regulation that they have that they're trying to get off Russian gas. So it's progressively um I think one of them went in um as we speak almost maybe in another few days and then they're progressively going up to the bigger ones uh middle of winter taking off the last of the long-term LNG contracts. This year it's short-term LNG contracts and short-term pipeline contracts.

[00:12:04]Short-term LNG contracts are mid-January um 2027 and last of the long-term Russian contracts uh uh September next year. And that's that's a big problem for them because their LNG from Russia is actually going up. It's it's actually record high and it's been increasing every year. So I I look for this and I I just think what happens is they um they do the European way and they bend their own rules. They just um tweak, push it out, change the regulations. I I I honestly don't think they'll get off Russian gas at all. I think they'll they'll change their own rules.

[00:12:41]Um it's kind of paying now and if if anything what's been keeping the lid on this all is China has just it's moved away from LNG and the fact that it it's unwilling to pay up for really high LNG prices it just switches back to coal and the fact that it's flexibility in its LNG contracts it's resold them for a profit and it's in a really strong position.

[00:13:10]The Chinese almost saw this coming a mile away. Like they have absolute massive stockpiles of everything and it's it's an interesting point.

[00:13:18]Yeah, what across the board actually. So a lot of like I I was only doing this work um last week was so I was saying oh you've been I don't know why you hold your view on corn and look at global um corn inventories are nothing. Um they're sort of at a historically high level and then I sort of said have you seen how much of it is controlled by the Chinese? And they were quite surprised by that whereas historically it was 2/3 controlled by the world, 1/3 by the Chinese and it was all kind of seen as mobile infantry infantry and now it's flipped around the other way. So Chinese control the better part of 2/3. The rest of the world has been declining slowly and it's down to a third and as we've seen recently the Chinese have got no qualms with export restrictions. They're they're just locking in for their own economy's benefit. So they've they've done it with um a number of refined products now.

[00:14:15]They've done it with sulfuric acid more recently which is a real issue when the sulfur is locked behind the the strait.

[00:14:22]So that's something that I don't see enough people talking about is it's really compounding China like almost uh like there's still a lot of talk about it obviously all the rare earth metals and all the the actual strict restrictions but there hasn't been as much talked about the the ones where there are a smaller share of global supply but it's already tight and they're restricting again. So that's going to show up around the world. Yeah, just like we said yeah, just like we said across the board. I mean Chinese always are not two. They're always four steps ahead. It's unbelievable how the Chinese philosophy is is gaining in these times of this uncertainty.

[00:15:08]Let's touch on fertilizers. Fertilizer shortages are impacting grain production. How should traders think about the second order effects? Are we under under underestimating the lag between fertilizer shortages and food inflation?

[00:15:27]I think so. I've been that's been one of my trades I've been putting on recently but should have a disclaimer I've had my ass handed to me as a tourist in grains.

[00:15:35]I the first trades have been going really well and as a typical bag holder I've put more on.

[00:15:43]So but yeah I I I I remain a bull on corn um and sugar and wheat to a lesser extent.

[00:15:52]The one that I think is interesting is similar to the LNG. There's I think it's up to 40 41 um fertilizer carriers are still stuck behind the strait. They haven't managed to move only I think only like four or five managed to get through over this whole period and so there's something like 2 million tons of the various fertilizers um stuck behind um stuck behind the strait not maybe not 2 million. Okay, maybe I think it was a far bigger number.

[00:16:24]Um stuck behind the strait and that just is not getting out in time for the planting seasons.

[00:16:30]And that um that's obviously going to have ramifications. Like if you don't the a lot of supply chains when you dig in they're they're quite just-in-time and so a lot of this fertilizer needed to be in certain spots around the world just-in-time for the planting seasons and China's also clamped down on some of its fertilizer exports. Like with urea it's pretty shocking. Like they um there was also already um a significant chunk stuck behind the strait of Hormuz and then China I think has clamped down on another 9% um the majority of its urea exports which is another 9% so makes the market even tighter.

[00:17:10]And so yeah you've got supply side going to be increasingly tight and then with um with some of the like the likes of corn and sugar you've also got the biofuel side of it and so the gap can't get too big between ethanol and gasoline with that kind of being pulled up and so you've got a real sort of demand pull when you've got a um when you've got the um yeah you got you got it working on both sides essentially. So I remain a bull on the trade. It's just the the grains have been hard to trade. Mm.

[00:17:46]Yeah, if I'm reading correct between the lines are you more bullish on the agriculture than the and than energy? I mean is is agriculture becoming a more attractive macro trade than energy at this stage?

[00:18:01]So I I think it's going to work really well but it's hard to apply it in a smart way. So you don't want to go anywhere near the farmers that are having just getting crushed on the back of cost inflation. So then they're not going to have a fun time.

[00:18:14]So finding a good way to apply it is quite difficult. You can obviously go with the fertilizer names like some of them are just a no-brainer like um CF Industries but then it also re-rated rapidly when it was all announced which makes it like I prefer to look for the sort of um second knock-on effect um than try and chase what everyone's piled into because then you also get a lot of tourists. There's kind of a element to this market now that the most obvious trade is what everyone piles onto because AI has drawn the dots with the most obvious trade and then you also see sort of absolute gut-wrenching volatility with some of these. Like I've seen sort of seen um you're talking to CF Industries like that.

[00:18:57]When the strait was announced open they got absolutely destroyed. So similar to um Fung Wah like I think some of these have have turned into real um like a lot of people put the trade on as a way to express a view and that just really dials up the volatility. Um so but yeah that's fine if you've got a longer term view and you can kind of stomach the volatility but it's not much fun when similar to what's just happened where the strait was declared open and then closed again like 24 hours later and the um it doesn't it doesn't um reverse the the drawdown um you you only get sort of if it gets punished 10% you only might make it sort of 3 or 4% back and it'll have to crawl back up to where you were.

[00:19:42]Yeah.

[00:19:42]Yeah, stomach the volatility and uranium come in the same sentence. You [laughter] uranium equal volatility. How are your views currently on uranium on nuclear nuclear energy? I know you have been bullish on both, but how do you Where are Where are we in the cycle when it comes to the uranium equities?

[00:20:07]So, I've given up thinking I can time when the thing takes off. Um just the setup still looks amazing to me. I still have a decent allocation. I'm still very heavy physical and Um I decent allocation to what I see as kind of quality conventional greenfields. I think that's um I can't remember last week talked if I talked about this, but yeah, I just see a lot of the all of the producers, I don't see much value there. I think they've over contracted. Um I have um I worry that a lot of the ISR names have over promised and will continue to disappoint. So, I just um it's interesting even looking to the proportion of ISR um that's kind of forecast in the the whole uranium space and just the sheer um disappointment they've been so far. Like you can look no further than like Boss.

[00:21:04]Um the likes of potential, the likes of um URG. Like most of them have missed or you've got the likes of UEC which has been really rewarded and hasn't really delivered anything. And so, I just don't want anything to do with it. I um I think we are going to go into a um a far higher um floors and ceiling regime. And so, I don't want to have a whole lot of legacy contracts that are going to really um weigh on the company. And so, my way of coming at that was just who who are quite attractive players. Like I I've always been um a big fan of Bannerman for years and I think a lot of people complained about the sort of the sort of dilution I guess of some of the um some of the sort of optionality or some of the um the leverage with um the JV, but I don't really see it that way. I think that was a bright great deal and um I think that's that's how I'm kind of playing it there.

[00:22:09]And then there's another few names in the US like I think ISO is like a similar one like conventional um hasn't really um signed any contracts. And so, you get that sort of leverage of where I think uranium needs to go. Whereas mostly playing it with physical still.

[00:22:24]Yeah. Let me Let's stop on ISR. You did mention ISR and you did mention sulfuric acid in the context of straight of Hormuz. How are you seeing the impact for uranium ISR producers, developers going forward?

[00:22:41]Well, this is this is the massive amount being taken out of um the supply. So, it's going to show up everywhere. Um it's So, um I was actually starting to dig into it today. So, I'm only halfway through it, but I was trying to work out how So, I have 50 Was it pretty much 50% of sulfur elemental sulfur stuck behind the straight? And my understanding is um a large amount of that ends up as sulfuric acid. I think it's sort of a the ratio seems to be 1 to 3.

[00:23:11]And then on top of that, um China has now um blocked their exports of sulfuric acid. And so, that has just been another Granted some of what was behind and stuck behind Hormuz was going to China. And so, that's been kind of a That's the reason they've also locked in their sulfuric acid is to protect their domestic market. And so, yeah, that's undoubtedly going to show up um a lot of these names are reliant on it.

[00:23:40]And um it's I honestly feel a lot of what I read in market commentary is just like hope it hope it's um hope this doesn't go on too much longer and there isn't um bad effects as a result. There's a lot of kind of hope and a lot of chest thumping whenever there's sort of an announcement of the straight opening or of some and I I I get the like the faded crowd and I get the sort of the buy the dip crowd have always been proven right. And if anything, they have they're doing a lot more chest thumping now of I see like the um S&P and Nasdaq rallying and they bought the dip and it's done well. But for me like the physical constraints are >> [laughter] >> really pretty serious. And um I yeah, I'm still kind of sun stand that I I wonder if we just everyone's going to keep buying the dip and fading this until they see it like start to really show up physically. Like there's real shortages and that's when there'll be a My friend um Paul Macrae kind of calls it like Tom Hanks moment. Like there there has to be an actual moment when everyone realizes, oh [ __ ] this is actually this is serious. And may maybe maybe it's when we see maybe ground troops and I don't know and we're like, oh, this is actually a drawn out war and everything that's locked isn't going to suddenly um suddenly be released. Kind of like what happened um only a few days ago with the So, the straight's open. It was almost as if the market the punishment that um LNG where everyone was TTF or um even thermal coal like the punishment it all took was as if that whole 14 LNG carriers had just exited the straight um and all the sale sale of the fertilizer it it was as if all of them got called out. And that was kind of the reaction and that even though none of them if anything, the it was almost comedy the one Indian tanker that tried to transit and had permission and it got shot at. Yeah.

[00:25:31]It's um it's Yeah. [sighs] Crazy crazy times.

[00:25:37]>> [snorts] >> Great Definitely crazy times.

[00:25:39]Before we move on the next commodity, one nuclear question. And that is how do you see Do you see any scenario where Germans really could reconsider uh going back to nuclear again? There are some whispers in the media in the space.

[00:25:56]However, how are you viewing this?

[00:25:59]I think they have to once they've had enough pain. Um I think it's a few So, this is a little experiment everyone should do and it's really interesting is um bring up your browser and just type in electricity maps and then click on Germany with an electricity maps.

[00:26:18]And a like a toolbar will pop up and you can just go down and look at their their makeup of their grid and you can expand it out to 72 hours and you can just look how their grid runs. And their grid essentially goes from massive amounts of um wind. And when it's too windy, they they have to push it to other grids. So, their their energy exports aren't really exports cuz they're just pushing it when it when it comes. They're not meeting anyone's actual demand at the time.

[00:26:48]And then um the the low points generally sort of in the um at night or in the early hours.

[00:26:58]Not only is it um it still sort of 20% coal a third uh third gas.

[00:27:06]A lot of it's um imports. It's They're having to bring it in from Norway, um France. France nuclear is one of them.

[00:27:14]Yeah. Yeah. And so so that they're they're bringing in other people's base load to keep their lights on. And they've also got a lot of biomass which are actually is highly uneconomic and the subsidies are all supposed to be ending in the next um next few years.

[00:27:30]Which is it's just a joke that biomass um is that big a proportion of the energy grid and that uneconomic. It's just Yeah, they their grid doesn't make any sense and they're going to hit the wall with it at some point.

[00:27:47]With one one that's quite interesting at the moment is the Norwegians have had um their hydros running quite low and they're already having the sort of their their own political crisis within Norway because they integrated with the European grid and their power prices went through the roof. And the there wasn't a a interconnector between north um Norway and south Norway. And so, the um south Norwegians are obviously pretty pissed off that they were seeing their power go through the roof while the um northern Norwegians are like, oh, we're we're fine. We don't want to be connected to this.

[00:28:25]And so, it's um yeah, everyone should look it up. Like the political parties have been voted out. There's sort of an anti-cable crusade. There's talk of not um of There's a few cables that connect to Denmark that they don't want to renew. And um yeah, that's that's quite a big deal in Norway which is essentially the battery for a lot of Europe. And Germany used to be a massive net exporter of electricity. And so, the fact that it's um it's completely switched to a a big net importer and has such a um such a variable grid. Like the part of the reason that the the European energy stores are so low is they had a wind drought um in the winter. And so, they just didn't generate much electricity. So, they just had to burn a lot more gas. And the chances are with may maybe they get a really cold winter one of these and they're going to be in a similar They're in a worse situation than they were in 2022 with storage levels. And so, that all that will be pretty um pretty nasty for them. Yeah.

[00:29:33]Uh before I let you go, I want to pick your brain about the PGMs. What's the most overlooked driver in platinum group metals right now? Industrial demand or supply constraints?

[00:29:46]Supply constraints by ma. Yeah. There's just nothing's happening. There's if anything, everyone should dig into just how much cost inflation there is. And just just read read some of the earnings. Yeah. If if anyone's like worried about their holdings.

[00:30:02]>> Oh. Cuz you can be quite lazy with PGMs.

[00:30:04]That's why I kind of got so interested in PGMs for silver or um Yeah, over silver really was cuz I could just read and parlor. Um Sibanye and Volterra report and Norilsk Nickel for their expansion and get a good idea of the sector and they're just um Yeah, they're having to um Yeah, their costs are going up.

[00:30:28]Electricity's constantly been um going up. They're having to dig deeper.

[00:30:34]They're having severe sort of or steady mine declines. They're not even thinking about sort of expanding um development projects and yeah, like it is Granted, the price was pretty explosive, but the um it's not at a point at which they're going to be bringing lots of supply on.

[00:30:53]And that's why I think I I've always liked Volterra as it's got quite a long mine life. Whereas the other the other two have quite a steep sort of gradient with their um their decline in their mine life. Which and then yeah, also you've got Norilsk Nickel which has pushed its projects out. And so it's Granted, it was quite platinum heavy.

[00:31:14]But that's been delayed. And that would have been 7-8% um addition to global PGM um supply. And that's been pushed out.

[00:31:24]So yeah, I just remain a massive bull.

[00:31:26]And if anything, I kind of view my whole portfolio as got stuff that It's interesting to see how stuff's worked when we've overhead sort of straight open, straight closed. You've seen how the portfolio acts. And like obviously a lot of the the PGM like PGMs are quite sensitive to um the economic growth cuz you've obviously got like platinum um requires sort of catalytic converter and industrial sales. And so it when when things are looking brighter, it does really well. And then when straight's closed, the all the energy stuff works a lot better. So it's almost like a 60/40 portfolio in that way. Whether it's PGMs, tin, gold, um uranium. Yeah.

[00:32:09]Uh sorry, this is my final question. We didn't done show on the precious metals.

[00:32:13]So I want to hear your perspective. A two minute answer, please. Uh your perspective uh as a trader on gold and silver. Are they attractive at all from the trader's perspective right now?

[00:32:30]I continue to think gold. Granted, I haven't bought any recently. So I I would big position in gold juniors that I've just sat on.

[00:32:39]I got I've gone in at a price that I find found attractive. And I just um I see it as something that I plan to hold.

[00:32:46]Um for years, honestly. Like if anyone's looked back at the '70s, the best performing sector across all the commodities was um was like the gold miners. And so I I could see that happening if gold goes where I think it does. So I'm going to hang on to those for dear life.

[00:33:03]As as for just buying it, I I regularly buy gold. I put gold into a vault. And so I just buy the physical. But that's more sort of a um just almost like a saving mechanism. I kind of view that almost like a sort of a what do you call it? Like dollar cost averaging. Like buying this and paying.

[00:33:20]I just want to put X amount into a vault every um month from sort of excess cash flow.

[00:33:26]But yeah, I'm not um not as excited to sort of buy it as a trade here. If anything, I'd probably buy more um PGMs. Probably um here over over gold.

[00:33:37]Yeah, what about silver?

[00:33:40]I haven't bought silver. I still defer to um just like in PGMs more cuz I can understand it a bit better. I've got um I feel like with silver it has um just a lot more retail traders in it.

[00:33:54]And so it has a lot more volatility.

[00:33:56]Like well one of my favorite trades in it, everyone probably knows cuz I just harp on about it, is rhodium. And it's cuz it's got no retail presence. It's actually been one of the smoother performers. And it's um just done good things. And yeah, because there's no it's very hard to play. And I'm just talking about owning the physical as well. Obviously own it through some of the PGM um miners. But yeah, I I like I like I like those trades where there just isn't as much retail participation. So you don't have don't get thrown all around with volatility. Um but yeah, I honestly I think they'll do good things from here.

[00:34:29]I think gold, silver, um PGMs will all be sitting pretty in a few years. And we can compare notes on which was the ultimate outperformer. But >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. It won't matter. You'll be happy. Yeah.

[00:34:39]>> [snorts] >> Uh Frank, how can people reach out to Uh just the Substack. Really, I don't spend much time on Twitter or X anymore.

[00:34:48]I find it um I think it's sad what it's become. Um And yeah, just the Substack. I see pretty much just write about what I'm doing with my portfolio. I also send out one free weekly email where I uh put the most interesting thing I've written uh read during the week, most interesting podcast I've listened to, interesting quote, interesting chart, and something I'm pondering.

[00:35:13]What's your Substack? What's your Substack handle?

[00:35:15]>> Uh uh ferg at traderferg um dot com. Or at Substack. Traderferg at Substack dot com.

[00:35:22]Frank, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:35:25]Thank you so much for having me on the show.