Tech Titans: LFP vs Sodium-Ion Battery | Which is the most effective energy storage solution?

[00:00:00]Lithium ion phosphate or sodium ion.

[00:00:02]Today is not about chemistry. Class is the future of storage.

[00:00:12]>> Hi, I'm Eva.

[00:00:14]>> And I am Jez and welcome to Tech Titans on ENF Trade TV.

[00:00:19]>> On today's episode, we are joined by Felicity Solar representing sodium ion phosphate and PIVA technology championing sodium ion batteries. Let's meet our guests. Hi Sean and Adams.

[00:00:32]>> Hi everyone. This is Sean. I'm CMO from Bowatt. Bowatt is a company that we are dedicated focus on uh sodium battery product. We start to sell the sodium battery uh 3 years ago from the 2023.

[00:00:50]So we have produced uh provides uh residential uh sodium batteries to uh Euro market.

[00:00:58]>> Hello. um Adams [snorts] from the city solar. Bity solar specialize in solar energy storage technology with 18 years of the industrial experience. What truly sets us apart is not only our products but also our excellent after sales support. In short, we deliver peace of mind through both reliable products and excellent customers service.

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[00:01:34]>> All right, let's warm up a little before we get into the challenging part. Let's start with you, Sean. What makes sodium ion an attractive alternative in storage projects? [snorts] >> Yes, thanks for the questions. Uh, I think the most important thing here I want to emphasize is the safety. I think [clears throat] sodium battery is the most safe battery product in the world.

[00:01:56]Now you know there's an uh saying uh from the one of the technical K he gives an analyszis that for the battery uh sales safety so if we have 100% I mean 100 as a full score so NMC is only 30 30 and the LFP is 65 and the sodium battery we can get uh 85 [music] so which means we are much more safe and the second one I think is that it's really a green batteries so from a material point of view you can use salt and the carbon coconut this for the battery cells the third one is that because the materials is so uh it's normal materials so we can expect the price for the sodium batteries will be much less than lithium batteries but now uh we don't have enough production so we are more expensive but I think in a long-term way that [music] I think after 3 years or four years we are able to even cheaper [music] than lithium batteries >> that's very interesting Sean uh now let's go on to the side of LFP to Adams what makes LFP a reliable choice for long-term energy storage systems is excels in long-term applications due to the three cost attributes. First one is exceptions [music] cycle life. FL batteries can support up to 6,000 circles while retending 18%age uh subsidies reducement cost over decades. The second is the thermote stackability chemistries resist terminal runaway maintaining safety even at high temperature. The last one is the low safe discharge. They lose only 3%age discharge monthly ideal for the seasonal energy storage.

[00:04:15]Going back to Sean, how quickly is sodium an ecosystem maturing towards broad adaption?

[00:04:20]>> Yeah, this is a good questions. Uh I would say that uh now we have uh start we start to sell the sodium battery product uh from the 20 mainly from 2024 at that moment that I think uh when we see the market I mean in the European market uh we don't see many players there. We are the pioneers. If you compare to last year, if we compare to last year, I think it's like 10 times uh speed art. So uh I think uh so for our company, we are quite busy for the new product and uh uh customers, partners from more and more countries, they are asking our product.

[00:05:02]>> Adams, my last question for this round, [music] how does LFP perform in continuous daily cycling scenarios?

[00:05:09]>> LFPS can rise under daily use. First one is the zero montenousness.

[00:05:15]No memory effect or mandatory full discharges. Second one is stable voltage output. Delivers consistent power even below 20%age state of charge preventing systems shutdowns.

[00:05:32]>> All right, now let's step up and talk about performance and efficiency. Jess, over to you.

[00:05:39]>> My first question goes to Sha. Sodium ion batteries are currently heavier and less energy dense than LFP. How do you see sodium ion competing in applications where space and weight matter?

[00:05:51]>> Yeah, actually yeah, you're right. Now we have some gap regarding density.

[00:05:55]Yeah, power density and uh so we are more heavy and more bigger uh our battery cells. So this is some problem uh we are facing now uh when we look into our applications. [music] So for example for residential market for the uh batteries we are bigger. [music] Yeah I don't know maybe uh 20% to 30%. But really I don't see any complaint from the customers about we are a little bit bigger and uh uh heavier. So they can accept that because they think it's much more safe productions uh solutions.

[00:06:31][music] And another thing is that uh uh in some scenarios like uh vos so like what I explained for CL they are trying to uh use son battery for EV so actually they mentioned also about 200 watt uh per kilogram uh the density also increase so it's increasing very [music] fastly and uh so I think next here there will be some car for sodium batteries so I think it's no problem no big problem actually yeah >> Adams LFP chemistry is often said to underperform in cold climates what's [snorts] the rationale for choosing it over sodium ion >> the sodium batteries excel in cold but LFP remains superior overall the first one is um we have the builders The solution is building a stale ters to address quote issues. The last one is the total cost advantage.

[00:07:42]LFP's longest lifespan lowest lifetimes cost.

[00:07:49]>> Going back to Sha lab results are one thing. What long-term field data proves sodium ion batteries can match lithium's performance in real world conditions?

[00:07:59]>> Okay, this is very good questions. Yeah, we are new new technologies. [music] So, uh firstly we have some our in-house uh our our lab test. So, we can support actually the cycles you can we can support eight 6,000 cycles but we just promise 5,000 cycles. This is one thing.

[00:08:19]Uh another thing that we have so when we introduce our product to Europe basically uh to Germany so we have a lot of partners they test our product they test our product uh not just uh few cycles they test more than thousand cycles. So we have a customer they test almost 3,000 cycles and we have another partners they test our battery cells with 45° uh and with more than thousand cycles.

[00:08:53]So you after the test they find that the SOC and the difference SOC are not so much different almost no changes after that they introduce our product to the uh end users. So I would [music] say we are okay to any of Tesla. Now >> that is all for the first round. Going back to you Eva.

[00:09:17]>> We've covered efficiency, speed, [music] and cold weather performance. Let's shift gears and dive into durability and environmental resilience. [music] Back to you, Jess.

[00:09:27]>> LFP batteries are well established for their long-term durability. what real world evidence or technical basis support sodium ion's ability to match that level of longevity.

[00:09:37]>> Yeah. So for the cycles uh I think it's also the technologies can be improved.

[00:09:43][music] So now we have polyonium ion these kind of sodium batteries. So we can also reach 10,000 cycles. [music] So uh and I think I believe we can continuous to grow. Yeah we can grow.

[00:09:57]I'm confident about that. So, but now we are still a little bit like 10 uh maybe 20 [music] 2,000. So, so something like like this less than the best lithium batteries. Yeah, it's true. But we will continue to uh grow >> if sodium ion batteries don't last as long. Could that make them more costly over time even if they're initially cheaper?

[00:10:20]>> It's really depends on what applications. So for for example for leenture we support I think a 10 years uh this kind of uh life cycles I think it should be fine. So we talk to some end users. Yeah. [music] Uh of course uh if you want more so still we are a little bit expensive. Yeah. From this point of view I agree. Yeah.

[00:10:45]>> Now back to Adams. Now that sodium ion's catching up to LFP in both energy and lifespan. Do you think LFP still has the upper hand when it comes to performance and durability?

[00:10:56]>> Cycle life lead the strip is the first point. Sodium battery reach 4,000 cycles but LLP we are more than 10,000 in next generation designs. And the last one is because market adoption. LFP holds 60 percentage global batteries market share in 2025 which investsments five times higher than sodium battery.

[00:11:28]>> Sodium ion batteries handle heat and stress really well. So why is LFP still seen as the safer option today? Adams >> LFP's safety is unmatched. The first one is the in nut chemistry does not decompose below 350° while sodium battery can oise vented on the streets.

[00:11:57]The second one is a zero thermal to run away. No fire risk even when punch light critical for homes.

[00:12:08]Got it, Adams. Back to you, Sean. Can sodium ion batteries really last for years of daily use, or is that still something we're figuring out?

[00:12:17]>> Uh yeah, actually for us, we can support uh just like what I mentioned, uh we test that we can support [music] even uh 6,000 cycles, 80% DoD. So, I think we can support the 10 years uh usage for even daily cycles. Yeah, no problem.

[00:12:34]>> That covers everything for this round.

[00:12:36]Over to you, Eva.

[00:12:37]>> Now for our final round, let's dig into integration materials and sustainability. Back to you, Jez.

[00:12:44]>> Sean, can sodium ion seriously compete with LFP when its energy density still limits real world space efficiency?

[00:12:52]>> Yeah, so now of course we are we have uh less >> [music] >> uh energy density than the LP now. But uh like what I explained that um in some scenario uh maybe is not so important for the d uh density the safety is much more safe uh important [music] so we are looking to some uh I mean the different segment maybe like this so uh for example for the market for the stential if we install the battery pack in the house I don't see any complaint even now we are bigger I don't see I don't got any complaint from any users uh but they just want some safety product. So [music] I would say for the energy storage it is uh not very important issues now but maybe it's more important for EV. Uh so if you want battery for EV for the it's not so the density maybe it's more important.

[00:13:49]>> So can we say that sodium ion isn't well suited for small homes or for weak wall-mounted installs? Uh I I think uh uh for example for our battery we can install the even indoor and outdoor. So when it's outdoor you know it's not very important for the space anymore. [music] Yeah.

[00:14:08]Sodium iron is greener. So how does LFP stay environmentally competitive?

[00:14:13]>> LFP sustainability is evolving. The first one is the nicree uses abandoned island which avoiding over mining. The last one is for the carbon footprint.

[00:14:29]Sodium battery lives here, but LFP production emissions are dropped 12%age yearly via renewable power factories.

[00:14:43]Now to my last question, Sean, can sodium ion systems integrate seamlessly with existing inverters and EMS platforms or are compatibility limitations still a barrier?

[00:14:55]>> It's a very good good question. So [music] in this case, our battery has lower wattages. So now our strategy is that we can use it we can integrate by the uh lithium battery inverters but uh we are not able to use all advantage of sodium batteries. [music] uh so like we can only discharge like uh 80 to maybe 85% [music] here I want to mention the victim we have uh experienced growart and also the year and other guys so [music] so it's already uh installed in Germany a lot in in a lot of European countries and we also provide our in-house inverters which adapt from the inverters uh from lithium inverters so this our BY inverters if you uh so if you using BY motors you are able to discharge 100% of the capacities >> insightful answers that wraps up all my questions. Thanks Adams and Sean. Now back to you Eva.

[00:16:02]>> All right, thank you so much Sean of B Technology and Adams from Felicity Solar for joining our show today. That's a wrap for today's episode. [music] Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you in the next one. right here on Tech Titans only on ENF Trade TV.