Delhi Gymkhana Handover Ordered by June 5: Soft Target or Security Need? | Rajdeep Sardesai LIVE

Ajouté : 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]I ban stands for a certain ceremonial value which belongs to the Mahamim Rajaspati. But if you are asking me if all those 300 acres are required for her to maintain the very legitimate sanctity and high placement of her office, I think there can be a debate on that also because it is the largest palace in the world.

[00:00:24]>> Mhm.

[00:00:26]And usually even ceremonial heads of state including that in the the United States of America live in smaller homes or or even if they are palaces not as big. So you can take a view in fact Mahatma Gandhi said that he would like after independence for Ashpati Bhavan to become a hospital but it did not. We had Dr. Rajend Prasad move in there and the second largest house in Delhi was the Flagstaff house where the prime minister of India moved in and we also have the habit of converting old prime ministerial residences into memorials which the current prime minister has put an end to but I don't know what happens in the future and we also have a situation where those who retire from those high posts for reasons of security are given type eight bungalows in Latians Delhi so as I said elites perpetuate themselves And there are parallel elites of politics of wealth of bureaucracy.

[00:01:26]Now if you are making a movement from uh inspired by the prime ministerial egalitarian a vision >> which I support which Rakkesh SA spoke about let's start a movement and if in that >> uh the beginning is the Jim Khana club so be it. But I'm afraid sometimes while the soft target is taken the rest is never done.

[00:01:48]>> Okay. And I don't want and therefore I appeal to the government to reconsider the decision because at least put a process of discussion greater transparency.

[00:01:58]>> I take your point. It can't be a firmman overnight. But you know interestingly Satyal Jan you raised your finger. I just want to give an example in Bombay where I am a member of a particular club where the club just when its lease was about to expire uh the the concerned municipal officials threatened to not to renew the lease. What happened next? All the ISIPs officers ensured they got membership there and the club welcomed them and that's how it survived. Now my point is the ISIP officers the elite there in Maharashtra all wanted to be members of the club. Now in fact uh the previous the Shindai government in Maharashtra opened up membership in the Willing Club also. They want to give membership to ISIP officers. All of them want to be members of the club and at the same time you target the club. All is IPS officers will line up if tomorrow a membership was opened for the Delhi gym. That's the reality.

[00:02:53]>> I'd like to make three submissions.

[00:02:55]Number one, let's not compare the Rasputi Bhan Prahan Mantri etc with the Jim Khana club. The president of India represents the entire ethos of the country, the unity and integrity of the country. So we should not bring Rajaspati Bhan Pradhan NAS etc into the controversy in the Jim Kana club.

[00:03:13]Secondly, after taking over in 2014, Shri Narendra Modi GI has made many reforms, has taken number of steps for the upliftment of the common man, woman, laborers, farmers and all that and this moment is going on.

[00:03:28]>> Third, >> you said now that is me, I officers, IFS officers, they are trying to take the membership of the clubs and all that.

[00:03:36]>> May I ask you even this Jim Khana club, have they any soldier a member of the club? Have there any PN as a member of the club? Have any normal farmer as a member of the club? Has there any son of a shopkeeper a member of the club? They may be having is officers but has there any driver their gunman their relatives a member of the club? What else is elite? If you confine the membership only to the selected few that itself becomes the elite. Therefore I will once again request time has come when the elite of this country if there is a elite they should shun their rights and privileges of their own they should understand and realize the gravity of the problem that a common man is facing this le is being canceled there is a human cry go to the colonies go to the slum areas where houses are demolished the buildings were demolished the question of where was the question of socializing there >> the 50% of Delhi is a slum let's do something >> start a national debate I agree with Mr. Vman and other people. Let there be a national debate on it.

[00:04:37]>> How many rights can be given to a section of the society at the cost of the common man, a poor man, a laborer?

[00:04:44]>> Sir, I don't Is it one versus the other?

[00:04:47]You see, if the Delhi Jim Khana lands were being taken over any Jim Khan and then being handed over to the punes, the the guards, the Javans for their housing, I don't think many people would object at all. Major Prasad would you object if tomorrow where your >> I don't object what given for housing loan that will be for the I would like I would like to question let him respond if I hear >> yes >> that has any of this class of people ever applied for membership of this club no I know it >> s cannot afford the type of people sitting there how can a PM sit with an is officer you won't allow him even to enter to have water on your table >> you can't have it both ways you apply FOR MEMBERSHIP.

[00:05:30]>> SO YOU'RE not going to give them membership. Sir, you're not going to give them membership. That is true there. Satya is right. But but my sir, just a minute. My my point Major Prasad Major Prasad if tomorrow the government says we are giving it for lowcost housing, will the club agree?

[00:05:45]>> We we are taking over the land for lowcost housing for the underprivileged.

[00:05:49]Would the club agree? If the government today decides to >> demolish the entire heritage of this uh letton's city.

[00:05:59]>> Yes. Why not have why not have anybody have low cost housing society there? Why not?

[00:06:06]>> Okay. We cannot dictate the government to do what they have to do.

[00:06:09]>> OKAY. OKAY.

[00:06:10]>> WE WILL TAKE A decision in the interest of the elected sir. Let's not have cross. We trying to avoid cross talk so everybody can be heard. Tablin Singh you raised your hand. Go ahead.

[00:06:21]>> Yeah. I I am not comparing the Jim Khana club to Rashraati Bhavan.

[00:06:26]>> We're talking about privileged sir. One minute. Hang on. Yes. All right. Now the there is nobody more privileged than the politician and the bureaucrat in India.

[00:06:36]And look how they are living. Why how how dare they live the way they do when they can't when they can't give housing to the ordinary Indian. So please let's clarify what I said. I didn't say one minute. Hang on.

[00:06:52]The point is if we're talking about privilege that's what I'm saying that YOU KNOW YOU'VE OPENED A Pandora's box now let's see let's give the Rakkesh SA stop raising your finger and say this living in you know we need 20 we meet 20 people a day as Pavan pointed out the prime minister of Britain meets constituents the American president why is it only in India that we have to pay taxpayers pay for politicians to live like princes and you can't afford to create enough lowcost housing in us.

[00:07:26]>> Give me 30 seconds.

[00:07:29]>> You know, it's not it's not the fault of the Jim Khana club that you haven't been able to do those things. It's the fault of the political leaders and there is a time to show leadership and this is the time instead of picking on a little club, show leadership, give up your privileges.

[00:07:46]>> Okay. Interesting.

[00:07:48]Rakkesh Sina will you give will your fellow MPs or you're an exMPP will your fellow MPs ever give up? You know you're saying we have built Brahma these are now apartments they're not the big bangalows. The truth is a number of our uh uh judges and and bureaucrats and politicians live still ministers uh two-time MPs all live in bungalows. Are they willing to give it up and and say we'll have lowcost housing there? That is the real revolution. That will be the social philosophy.

[00:08:18]>> I I'm really I am Razib really surprised. Tablin Singh is a very enlightened journalist and intellectual. She's unaware of that how the ministries have been consolated in Kartabhan. The prime minister office so prime minister prime no let me let me let me let me I would let you complete if you keep to the subject in toilets and this that and the other. Okay. He thought either way he's saying they've tried to rationalize government offices.

[00:08:49]Let me let me specific question was replacing ministerial bungalows. You want to strike at the elite. They they are the real elite. The politicians the bureaucrats are the real not a Jim Khana where people are playing tennis.

[00:09:02]>> No you know no you you can't compare the ministry of Bangalore with the Jim Khan.

[00:09:07]Ministers have so many responsibility.

[00:09:09]We say your wife is a member of parliament. We know the how we meet the people and our she hasn't taken a house at all. 8 n no it's not a question of she has not taken or I have taken this is not the question is that our 24 hours is for the people at least in the Narendra Modi era no member of parliament belonging to BJP is situated in Delhi we have to run across the country we have to organize the kil maso we have to organize different programs for the people we are enlightening the people that are being spent on renovate ministerial bungalows you know better than how the kind I I saw a minister at Bangalore where water is running right through the day in a country of water.

[00:09:51]I'm just telling you that >> the minister has built a fountain in the middle of era of the and under Modi regime there's a sunset era of the colonial feudal legacies and the institution >> there is a Modi minister who has a fountain running in the middle of his house >> in an old heritage building look remodeling it renovating it that's okay >> I'm telling you that member of parliament has a lot of work and public goods we do so he puts up a fountain in the middle of the deal with the people 24 hours 365 days are dedicated to the people not our family exceptions are not the rules exceptions are not the rules okay exceptions are not% dedicated to the common people and we work for the common people >> okay you work for the common people the public good the greatest number is the philosophy of narod you said that but let me come to the final question therefore club culture is it part of a macau mindset the fact that we could go pawanha to Kolkata and go to the kolkata club and and and have chicken sandwiches or the Bombay gym kana and we'll play a game of rugby and then have a drink afterwards. Is this part of the old colonial legacy that the macau mindset still lives on and therefore the club culture becomes the soft target because it represents that old Macaulay mindset and does that need to change like tomorrow and can it change? Well, well, Rajep, I I'll be honest with you. I'll be honest with you. One of the consequences of colonial rule is not your physical subjugation. It is the colonization of your mind. And it happens to a lot of postcolonial societies that political freedom freedom comes first and cultural emancipation takes longer. The fact that we are I mean we this is an English-based program but for a long time there was a sense of inferiority complex attached to those who could not speak English with the flu accent and with that felicity and that is the truth of it. Uh a lot of people know nothing about our culture our origins and I'm not talking of being show chauvinist or or xenophobic. The fact of the matter is our educational curriculums had no touch in reality with our own heritage, our own history. And to that extent, yes, the Macaulay legacy still continued for a very long time. And it's time I will say that for clubs also and I have given examples at at the last time I went I was stopped in a formal dress of a pajama ka uh uh uh with closed sandals just because it doesn't conform to what the British left as the rules for the club.

[00:12:37]And in a country like ours, there was a lady who came from the northeast who was thrown out of one of the clubs because her dress which was formal by her standards did not conform to the club's very narrow definitions of propriety. We need to change. We should change.

[00:12:54]>> But should we throw the baby out with the botto I feel that there should be a dialogue with the clubs. I feel that to by saying that but tomorrow in 48 hours you cease to exist is not the answer. Societies evolve through dialogue.

[00:13:11]>> Okay.

[00:13:11]>> And let there be greater sense of dialogue.

[00:13:13]>> Are you ready? Are you ready majority to resolve this issue?

[00:13:16]>> Are you ready major prasad for a dialogue for change that the club culture of having a gin and tonic of playing a game of sport all you know no I I am as I love sport. I believe sport should be played encouraged but at the same time do you believe some change is needed also in the club culture you can't wear sandal sandals to the bar all of that needs to change or not >> well look I it's a bar and all is this subsidiary the main focus for a sportsman is to go and play and I remember I could not afford to go to the bar every day because I had a very meager salary when I became a member of this club in 1972 so I played my tennis or I played my squash and sometimes played low very very low stake bridge and that's it and I came home for my dinner.

[00:14:06]>> So this business of saying that every goes to club for a drink and so you're saying you're saying that's caring the club that's stereotyping it. Let me tell you one thing.

[00:14:17]>> There is a football of just about uh uh on daily basis. It's about 250 to 300 people who come there and play their game, have a little wash or whatever or a shower, go to the bridge room or something and maybe go to the bar for a drink that come home. But it is it is the heritage. It is our lifeline. our now large number of old members who come there in the morning they go to the library we have a very well equipped library we have got sporting facilities we have you know we offer so much to uh to me >> sir I' I've run out of time you're saying I've run out of time you're saying it's I take your point I take your point sir you're saying it's part of heritage you know satyapal jan are we throwing out with the baby with the bath water at the end of the day The clubs are part of a culture of a city. A city is also defined by social spaces across the world.

[00:15:18]>> You know, it seems that they are the it seems that there are resentments that the new guard is resentful that the old order has these clubs where they can go and play. Is there resentment and anger against these people? Let us say the resentment and anger among the common masses also. Indian constitution said, preamble said we have to ensure justice social and economic to all citizen. We the people of India. Some people thousands maybe two three four lakhs in the entire country cannot sit and enjoy privileges at the cost of the common man. Okay. Modi karaikas and if you have to uplift the common man you these people with all respect I'm saying full sense of responsibility we have to take over their rights surrender their rights and let there be a national debate on all these issues somewhere which is which is what we've we've tried to kick off that national debate Singh let me give you 30 seconds you actually believe Okay. Okay. Therefore, Tablin Singh, 30 seconds. Do you believe that that we are going to see this revolution?

[00:16:27]>> I am delighted that we've opened a Pandora's box. Let everybody give up their privileges for the common man, for the common good in the ministerial bungalows. Let's start making lowcost housing, affordable housing. What about that sir? What about tired judges etc living in Latians Delhi? I'm a child of Latians Delhi. So don't Rakkesh SA tell me that people are living in little apartments for a start. They don't need they should pay rent from their salaries and not expect taxpayers to pay for them to live. So that's my final point. Open the Pandora's box. Great.

[00:17:08]>> Okay, we've opened the Pandora's box on the show today. I'm glad that we've had 30 second. Okay. 22nd, not 30.

[00:17:15]>> We changed the subject to toilets and all the subject. You know, since 20 Yes. Since 2014, the elitism has been eroded because you see the cha 1700 colonial rules have been abolished.

[00:17:35]So egalitarian idea, egalitarian idea, egalitarian idea and egalitarian idea in a country which many has become a billionaire raj. I'll leave it there.

[00:17:49]I've heard all the sides and it's good to have kickstarted this debate and maybe opened a bit of a Pandora's box.

[00:17:55]You the viewer need to decide. Do we need to do away with the club Jim Khana culture or do you believe it's an important part of our heritage? Do we need to do away with these uh privileges or do you believe they are an essential part of a country's and cities landscape? Let's leave it there. The old elite versus the new elite and plenty more questions will continue to blow in the wind. Thanks for watching. Stay well. Stay safe. Jin. Namaskar.

[00:18:37]In Delhi, Jim Khana club faces a takeover in Mumbai. BJP wants review leases to clubs.

[00:19:00]Crackdown on colonial era clubs and Jim Khanas.

[00:19:08]Justified move or weapon of mass destruction.

[00:19:19]Symbols of elite privilege or a cherished legacy, club culture crackdown roundt.

[00:19:34]Hello and welcome once again to the weekly roundtable. This week, the Narendra Modi government has opened another front when the center served an eviction notice to the high-profile Delhi Jim Khana in the heart of the national capital. The Modi government calls it a step in the interest of national security and public good. The Jim Kana supporters and members see it as an example of state power and a potential land grab. There is also a parallel narrative running. Is this an attempt by the Modi government to dismantle a bastion of the English-speaking Latians elite and build their vision of a new India or some would say a new elite or is it a weapon of mass distraction from the more pressing concerns of our times? Are we going to see the end of an elite club culture not just in Delhi but across India next? Those are some of the issues that we'll be discussing on a on our big Jim Khana debate. Joining us now, special guest Tavlin Singh, author and columnist joins me also joined by Pavan WHMA, author and former diplomat. And I'm joined by Rakkesh SA, former Raja Sabha, BJPMP. We'll be joined by more guests as the show goes on. But I want to start with you Tablin Singh because the two big questions I want to raise initially. Is the Narendra Modi government justified in taking over the Delhi Jim Khana serving it an eviction notice or is a colonial legacy club a soft target? Your response?

[00:21:13]I think both things could be true because ever since Narendra Modi became prime minister, he's made it clear that all traces of India's colonial past must be erased. So we had parliament erased and a new one created. You know, I think the ministries have all been moved. The ministries is a good thing to do because those offices that were built were really awful. The the ones that they they've changed from is a good thing.

[00:21:41]But the Jim Khana club is part of Delhi's history. It's it's the sort of club where you know I mean since the British left it wasn't the elite Raji the elite go to the Belvadier club in the in the Oberoy and the Chambers club in the Taj and they go to other fancy new clubs like the Soho club that are very very expensive clubs. The Korang Club the the Jim Khana Club is a relic of the past. It's a beautiful old building in very shabby condition. And most of the people that go there are not rich people. They are retired people who go there because the food is cheaper and it's good and the the booze is cheaper and it's good and you can meet other people, you know. I mean, someone like me, I've been playing squash there since I was a young girl.

[00:22:37]You know, I mean, it's it really is part of the life of Delhi in many ways. And but the other thing that I want to make clear right away is if they're paying only a,000 rupees a year, that's ridiculous. They should pay full market rent. They It's a very, you know, fancy building, etc., so they can afford to pay more.

[00:22:59]>> Can I can I just push you though on one point before I go to the others? You seem to suggest that the elite should be defined therefore by wealth not necessarily by the fact that they are members of the Delhi Jim Kana which could be retired generals, retired bureaucrats, retired diplomats and dare I say even their children who seem to get automatic membership and many question that privilege as well. Do you believe elite is defined now in India by wealth? the ability that they can go to an expensive five-star hotel exclusive club, not so much the Delhi Jim Khanas and the old clubs of the country.

[00:23:35]>> The the people that I meet at the Jim Khana club are don't really constitute the elite except for some bureaucrats.

[00:23:42]And I have been, you know, I' I'm not a member. I I've just sort of, you know, I'm on a list of uh dependent members that dependents that could one day become members. But I'm defining elite by political power and by money power because that is what makes up an elite.

[00:24:02]The political elite in Delhi is a new elite in the past 12 years. The old elite has been kicked out into the garbage bin of history. There is a new elite there and they behave just like the old elite. You know, Orwell was completely right about this because they also now have the fancy cars and the Cartier uh watches and the glasses that are two or three lakhs. Some of the ministers, just look at their faces.

[00:24:32]They're wearing glasses that are worth two or three lakhs. The people that you will meet in the Jim Khana club could not afford that kind of luxury. So, it's a it's political and and money power that makes up an elite.

[00:24:46]>> Very interesting. political and money power in your view makes up the elite and that necessarily does not reside in the Jim Khanas anymore resides more in these five-star exclusive clubs. Uh Pavan Bharma your take do you believe the Modi government is justified in taking over uh the Delhi Jim Kana and or do you believe that a elite legacy club or a colonial legacy club is a soft target.

[00:25:16]Well, Rajep uh the government has the powers uh as uh the unquestionable landlord of all lee's land.

[00:25:28]It can resume that land if it wishes and can state the purposes for which it is doing so. So I think legally uh the government is within its bounds to take over the club. I think what the plea of the members of the club and for a lot of other people is that could there be a little more transparency on the reasons stated? If it's security and public good as you put it then the question arises is Jim Khana club the only place where you need it for these purposes?

[00:26:06]The question also arises why now for a club that was established in 1913 and which has been in existence in free and independent India since 1947.

[00:26:18]So I believe some degree of transparency even some process of discussion prior to such a fiat ferman saying that we are just taking over the club because in our view we need it for security and public good. Now as far as the question you asked about elites, I do agree with what Tavlene said that what constitutes now the elite in real terms but all elites are basically probably uh those institutions which have a barrier on entry which put on the gates rights of admission reserve. Now the Jim Khana club is a sought after membership and there are people who qualify and there are people who don't who are still on the waiting list. Now in such a situation the perception grows that what must be those those who are members >> Mhm.

[00:27:12]>> are perhaps the elite and they are living on rather expense they are part of a club on very expensive land. uh uh and I think uh they are certainly an elite class to begin with because they were largely as bureaucrats, armed forces and some others who joined the beneficiaries of the outgoing colonial regime. They were the English-speaking elite and they had more or less a smooth and safe entry into some of the havens that the British left behind. Is that the situation today? Now I think it has changed and it took time to change in the in