Andrew Marr has had enough of Donald Trump...

Ajouté : 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]Good evening.

[00:00:01]>> President Trump has threatened to rip up his trade deal with the UK as punishment for us not joining his idiotic war in Iran. Mr. Speaker, this must be the last straw. Surely the prime minister can't send our king to meet a man who treats our country like a mafia boss running a protection racket.

[00:00:21]>> Kharma disagreed and he talked of 250 years of relations between the two countries. But the more I think about this, the clearer it is that Sir Ed is right. After the latest threats by Trump to tear up the trade deal he signed with Britain, the king should call it all off. And here is just a little reminder of why. That's what I think.

[00:00:43]>> And I'm not, by the way, I'm not happy with the UK either. This is not Winston Churchill that we're dealing with.

[00:00:51]>> We had the UK say that we'll send this is 3 weeks ago. We'll send our aircraft carriers, which aren't the best aircraft carriers, by the way. They're toys compared to what we have, but we'll send our aircraft carrier when the war is over. I said, "Oh, that's wonderful.

[00:01:08]Thank you very much. We don't bother."

[00:01:10]You have places where in the UK you have a terrible mayor of London. Terrible.

[00:01:16]He's an incompetent guy. But you have Sharia courts. You don't have Sharia courts. You don't want Sharia court. You have Sharia courts adjudicating law.

[00:01:25]They'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did. They stayed a little back little off the front lines.

[00:01:31]>> The 4-day trip with a state dinner at the White House, the speech by King Charles to Congress, the visits to New York and Virginia, it should all be cancelled now. Really, of course, by the prime minister. The possible benefit is far too small. The dangers too great.

[00:01:50]Even if it all went well and President Trump behaved himself with the monarch he describes as a gentleman, how much credit would be won for Britain? Some, a smidgen, a pinch for 10 minutes, maybe an hour, perhaps even if we're lucky, a day. And then Trump would change his mind again and cancel the trade deal or further undermine the NATO alliance or be abusive. Personally, I wouldn't use words like gangster, but you cannot trust this man. And perhaps to his credit, you cannot buy him either. After last year's second day visit to the UK, where he was smothered with praise and ceremonial pomp, he started attacking Britain again on the flight home and carried on at the United Nations, making wild claims about Sharia law. The epithets he used about British policy overnight this time included insane, tragic, and sad. So anyone who assumes that putting the king and queen alongside him in Washington this spring will make things sunnier, I am afraid, just hasn't checked the record. And the dangers are obvious. The humiliation of the monarch, Trump grabbing the microphone to say something offensive to which the king cannot reply. Look, we have tried flattering the president's ego. We have tried obsequious.

[00:03:11]It doesn't work. I'm sure King Charles would see all of this as his national duty. Grit his teeth and do his stuff and probably crossed fingers it will go off okay. But I wonder whether in private the king doesn't quietly agree with the leader of the Liberal Democrats and feel there has been enough kissing of the rod, sucking up of criticism and swallowing of pride. King Charles, your majestic time would be far better spent peacefully at home in the garden with a good book.

[00:03:44]Interestingly, those close to the king take different views on all of this.

[00:03:47]Here first of all is the broadcaster and biographer Jonathan Dimbleby talking to me just last month.

[00:03:54]>> I hope um that Starman, Mr. Starman, Prime Minister can find a diplomatic way to postpone this visit at this period of what is obviously as you've been discussing acute tension um between Britain and the United States. Forget forget about the personal insults that Starmmer's thrown his way. You know Starmmer can ride through that I'm quite sure. But it is nonetheless a point I think where the way should be found maybe that the um United States the White House is able to find a way of saying as with China this is a period of very great busyness for the president and therefore this visit should be uh we suggest postponed i.e. a diplomatic offramp >> but the king's latest biographer Robert Hardman does not agree with either of us. I began by asking him whether there would have been intensive discussions about the visit between number 10 and the palace.

[00:04:50]>> There will Andrew. Yeah. And and it more than that I mean I think the conversation will be between number 10, the foreign office, the British embassy in Washington and the palace. Uh you know that there is a a very opaque organization called the Royal Visits Committee which has lots of very senior mandarins, private secretaries from the palace. you know, they have been going over this um discussing it on a daily basis, but I I still think the position remains uh firm that to cancel would be worse than to go ahead >> and that is presumably because of the embarrassment, the diplomatic rift that would be caused, the embarrassment to Trump personally, all of that.

[00:05:27]>> Yeah. Uh it would it would be an act of uh of of of grave um discourtesy as they might say, this this close to the actual visit. I mean, you know, essentially an invitation was um sent, we accepted. Um and and don't forget that everyone is doing their best to frame this as a celebration of 250 years of UK US relationship since uh the king's great times 5 grandfather George was ejected.

[00:06:00]Um and it's all about that and it's not about the kind of day-to-day uh business affairs the state of the the the bilateral which which quite clearly at a political level is is uh is is very ragged but um this is the idea at least is that this will look far beyond that.

[00:06:19]>> Well I I do understand all of that. The trouble is that the language that Trump is using is so extreme um and so unpredictable and indeed after he had been for his second state visit here last year, he got straight back on Air Force One and started slagging off the UK again. And the question is whether there is not a serious risk in this visit. I know I think live television is being kept well away from an awful lot of it, but there is not a serious risk of Trump saying or doing something that severely embarrasses the king and he can't reply.

[00:06:50]>> Uh I don't think that's going to happen while he's on the ground. I mean I I in the course of writing my new book on the on the late queen, I I went out to Mara Lago just over 3 months ago and had long chats with uh President Trump about the monarchy. Um and he was nothing other than uh utterly reverential and we saw that actually on all his visits. His visit first visit to see the queen in 2018 people wondered what's he going to do answer he was as good as gold. 2019 came on that state visit again switched off the phone the minute he got off Air Force One at Stanston airport. Uh total radio silence tweet silence for the duration of the visit. Uh then you know normal radio radio traffic resumed when he was out but nothing while he was on the ground. Same again when he came last September for the state visit with the king. He is he will be very conscious to not embarrass the king or queen while they are in his presence and and I think actually we hear very little. I I remember on that state visit in 2019 we were all listening out. I mean talk about microphones on full. Everyone was sort of chronicling and digesting every word and we heard very very little from him beyond the actual setpiece speeches and this time you know there won't be an Oval Office moment. There won't be the prospect of a kind of you know Zalinski showdown. It's just not going to happen.

[00:08:14]>> And yet nobody I assume thinks that this visit is going to do the UK any good at all in our relations with the US.

[00:08:22]>> What good it does is one question. I I think as I said at the outset, I think the the risk of the bad that would happen if we cancel far outweighs uh what whatever happens. I mean, don't forget, as you know well, Andrew, because I' I've been on these trips with you in the past. I mean, when a mollock goes overseas, they're always accompanied by the foreign secretary um who is there really so that when any sort of political issue comes up, the king can say, "Well, that's terribly interesting. Thank you. May I steer you towards my foreign secretary who's over there?" I think um possibly the person with the toughest brief on this trip is not the king or the queen. It's Cooper um because she's the one who's going to have to uh sort of grin and bear it every time. I think political services.

[00:09:06]It'll be great. I think it's it's a test of her diplomatic skills as much as anyone.

[00:09:10]>> That's absolutely for sure. Is it possible? You've spoken to him. You know him. Um is it possible to say anything useful about the king's attitudes to Donald Trump? I mean he's not somebody without a sense of humor but he must be looking at what Trump is saying day by day with a certain amount of shock.

[00:09:27]>> Yeah. I mean he he'll be looking at and we know for example when Trump um made those remarks about NATO troops uh standing a little back as he put it in Afghanistan which went incredibly badly with the British armed forces particularly those who' lost loved ones.

[00:09:43]And I know from uh when I was writing my book that you know the concerns uh were sort of passed back through the through the usual channels and hey presto the following day we had a sort of clarification from the president sort of saying actually but the Brits were great.

[00:09:59]>> Um so um you know there there is a a relationship there. I mean you know they did get on they they are very similar in age. Of course, they disagree on things such as obviously things like um >> Canada for a start.

[00:10:12]>> Yeah, the king of Canada is quite keen to remain as king of Canada and not not not see someone else take over as head of state. But um you know the the royals have been doing this for so long and I you know yes of course everyone thinks Trump must be the sort of most difficult customer ever when you look at the people that Charles has had to deal with and I've watched him you know visiting you know 24 car autocrats in in pretty dodgy parts of the world and seen how he's handled them. I don't think Donald Trump is is anywhere near as among the top 10 difficult um heads of state he would have had to deal with.

[00:10:47]>> Do you honestly think they get on though? Yes, I I think they they they get on because the royals are very good at getting on with with everyone. I mean, you know, they're not they're not soulmates. Um but um actually, like I said, talking to um Donald Trump about the royal family, he is very he's sort of assiduously respectful. Um and I think one other thing that that we should bear in mind all through this is that that Donald Trump is he's rather like the king. He's he's a sentimentalist and he's also half British and that Britishness deres from his Scottish mother and that's that was sort of common ground he established fairly early on with the late queen in their first meetings. Um and he's very happy talking about that and the king's very happy talking about that. So I think it will be all about finding finding safe safe ground and ignoring the very substantial herd of elephants in the corner of the room. Uh, be it Andrew, Epstein, Iran, you name it.

[00:11:43]>> I suppose you could say they're both they both share this. They're both half Scottish and half German.

[00:11:49]>> That's that's it's a very good point, Andrew. I'm not quite half German. I quarreal with that, but >> maths has never been my strong point, but you >> I know, but I I think you could certainly you could certainly draw draw a domestic map on both sides and it would it would it would reach far to to the north of Scotland and indeed across to Germany. I think we've been kissing the rod for for too long. But we we can agree to disagree on that. Robert Hardman, thank you very much indeed.

[00:12:15]>> Thanks, Andrew.

[00:12:16]>> And that was Robert Hardman whose new book, Elizabeth II, in private, in public, the inside story is out now. So there's the mood here in the UK. But what about across the pond in Washington? Our correspondent there, Simon Marx, is here to give us an insight. Uh Simon, there is an element of risk surely in the royal visit. There is an element of risk wherever Donald Trump and a microphone and a camera are in the same room.

[00:12:42]>> Yeah, no question about it. And and with respect, Andrew, to Robert Hardman who was saying uh that Trump has been assiduously respectful. Uh well, go and tell that to Pope Leo because he certainly hasn't been assiduously uh respectful in the Pope's direction over the course of the last several days as this back and forth war of words with the head of the Roman Catholic Church continues. The king of course will be coming here in his capacity as head of state, but he's also the head of the Anglican church. And only earlier today, President Trump back on his truth social feed published another image, this time uh of Jesus standing behind him and embracing him. Uh this after of course the earlier meme depicting President Trump as Jesus, I mean I'm sorry, as a doctor. uh that the president later removed from his truth social feed. So we are living at the moment here in the United States in such deeply uh unpredictable times. He's up every single night until 1:30 in the morning, 2:30 in the morning firing off this nonstop uh fuselage of social media postings.

[00:13:55]Anything can happen during the course of this royal visit.

[00:13:58]>> It sure can. Simon Marks, thank you very much indeed for